Are we going back to PHP with fullstack JavaScript?
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- Опубликовано: 4 май 2024
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In my early days as a web developer, I got started with HTML, CSS, JS and PHP.
Nowadays, modern fullstack JavaScript / JSX code can kind of feel like that basic PHP code I wrote back then. But is it really the same?
![mgk - Sun to Me (Zach Bryan Cover) [Live from Cheshire Cottage]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_ZnbTEs4O6U/mqdefault.jpg)
I think we over complicated web development in the past few years.
Thanks Max!
Man, you said it right!! Web development has been over-engineered!!
Am happy everyone is seeing php was simple, JavaScript ought to simpler since backend js came after PHP but instead it became too complicated. And funny enough people take it's complexity as a positive thing and look down on the simplicity of PHP. I first started with node but once I learned PHP, it was hard to think of building apps with node because I had less headaches.
Web development got overcomplicated simply because programmers are not designers. Most programmers will do anything in their power to produce something quick before actually trying to develop something from scratch, specially if there's graphic design involved, which is what the web is mostly, if not all, made of.
@@CristianKirk I can't argue with the graphic design part.
also, I know that using known frameworks make it easy for programmers to catch up on other's projects in a short period of time.
but, I think these frameworks are getting bigger and heavier overtime for acceptable reasons (fixing vulnerabilities, adding new features, keeping backward compatibility), this can be an overkill for small and maybe medium websites/apps which in return will drive some programmers to develop their own simplified frameworks so that will not start from scratch in future projects
Finally, I'm not totally against these new dev complexity rather than being wise using it.
Thanks all for your feedbacks
The same thing over complicated the backend development by turning every system into microservices. Most "websites" don't need to be thick client SPA . It is the same old skilled incompetence issues in human history. “If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.” - Abraham Maslow
As a web developer, I was using PHP then, still using PHP now. PHP/MariaDB/Vanilla JS and yes, Tailwind.
Haha same. Good old lamp stack
And i thought am a weird developer for using this stack 😅
My brutha. Except I used mysql mostly.
Are you using PHP natively? Or use some framework?
like me bro, i use Javascript for ajax and some necessary events
I learnt jQuery, then BackboneJS, then AngularJS, then a bit of React and at that point I said, enough f*ck this sh*t. Not interested in learning a new JS framework every 5 minutes. Back to PHP/MySql with good old plain JS. There is more to life than learning about new JS frameworks every day...
I mean, it's been pretty much only react for like 8-9 years. Iterations of PHP frameworks are pretty much the same, there is always something new that's going on and I think always learning is a trait that developers should have.
I get the frustration, but ultimately you don't need to "learn every new framework", but instead "learn programming" and "learn basic principles" as you may quickly discover that most of "new frameworks" use the same exact ideas with slightly different taste to it and an additional plot
I've always felt that the least amount of javascript to get the job done, was the best amount of javascript 😉
But the thing is next js is the new php and it’s gonna dominate the web development next 20 years , so if you wanna make money then take your sit 😂
i thought i was the only one...the only thing is you may not be able to get Jobs
I know php, jquery bootstrap, but all these dev jobs started requesting for more and then I reached a point and also said fuck it
Just use whatever you're comfortable with and what best suits the project.
How dare you use reason! Bah!
Php is making a massive comeback thanks to Laravel! MARK!
Symfony > Laravel
@@hermes6910 No
Can we combine php with react or is it an overkill ??
@@anonymouscitizen4235 For most use cases (especially on its own), React is just overenginering your project.
But there's nothing wrong with using it with php.
@@anonymouscitizen4235 ofc , try laravel with ineritia and react
I’m glad someone else sees this. Also thanks for your react course and node.js I bought them both. When I started web dev in 2001 we used .net and asp pages and did server side vb and client side html side by side in the same asp pages. Recently I used PHP for the first time and went “woah…this is mixed like asp pages”. Then I saw Next.js and had the exact same thought. Wow…I guess bell bottoms and mullets are back in style.
Hi Maximillian! I am so glad to see you & hear your familiar voice here again. You are hands down best instructor I have seen in years alongside Corey Schafer.
Php is built like a tank . Never gets old plain and simple no drama unlike the rest is a brittle due to constant changes that sometimes my 3yrs code wont work forces me to update
totally agree, i migrated applications made with php 5.3 to 8.2 with very low effort
Agree! I am old. I want stability. I don't have time experimenting some code tagged as canary or flavor of the minute framework.
I also come from the generation where C (Turbo C) was my first ever language that I learned, and PHP was the first language with which I started my IT career and passion for web application development...
Turbo C++ for me. I remember when JavaScript first came out and everyone was confused and thought they needed Java applets. What what? And it went from Perl CGI scripts which got owned all the time to PHP and everything started to improve slowly from there, and it's still just fine. PHP 8 is awesome and so is Laravel. If you must JavaScript, try Vue first or even htmx and some plain JS, don't overcomplicate it to start with.
Perl, ASP, and Cold Fusion were my first tools to build dynamic websites. But, yeah, then PHP took over websites development like a huge storm
I came from HTML Strict 1.1, where Internet Guides and Stackoverflow and co didn't exist. I feel your pain mate. Nobody new devs will NEVER understand what struggle we went though.
Finally as an php developer I got confidence to stand in front js framework developer.
Very good video if you use Livewire you can use a same language for frontend and backend with sprinkles of AlpineJS. Yes what you have said is correct assuming most developers are frontend end developers they can ship apps knowing only frontend. Inertia with Laravel is great too which supports SSR out of the box.
What about Inertia (SSR) and its impact on SEО?
@@todormarkov2860 with livewire you don't need inertia for SEO. It worked perfectly fine
I remember scoffing at PHP when I learned Ruby and Rails. My website was slowing down to a crawl with Rails, and debugging it was a nightmare. So I eventually went back to PHP, humbled, and I'm glad Laravel exists.
Skill issue?
@@gamerneversleep4200 right, that explains why Rails is dead, ppl lacked skills
@@danfg7215 Rails isn't dead, and not only is faster than in previous versions but getting really important new additions like Hotwire so not only you don't need a JS framework to provide interactivity, but you can build from web to iOS/Android apps using the same tools. Also the future for Rails 8 is becoming promising with new features for security and deployment, the latter with Kamal.
But nothing of the above should be understood as against PHP, in fact is a really good thing than we are now moving towards a separation and simplification of full stack development, while at the same time the major frameworks (Laravel, Rails, Django, Phoenix, etc) are not only getting better/faster but also providing new features.
If rails is dead, laravel is equally dead.
Django > *
Hi Max! Love your content as always! Any combination of web technologies that give you the end result you want and expect, that is the most important thing. Trendy stuff tends to spoil faster that good and solid programming languages that are still around.
I know this is not the main topic of this video, but as a PHP developer for over 11 years, I got real tired real quick from people claiming that PHP is dead when in all reality I almost never felt I needed to learn another back-end language because the job opportunities revolving around PHP (Laravel, CodeIgniter, WordPress, Drupal, etc.) are as broad as ever (knock on wood). This is not to say that other languages are better/worse. I like to tinker with full-stack JS for personal projects, just to keep myself involved with what's new. So if you are a junior PHP developer, don't feel discouraged. PHP is an excellent tool to build formidable and scalable websites, there is no concrete evidence that it is going away anytime soon.
PHP is the OG web language. All the others are just trends that will come and go. The ones that will forever persist are PHP and Ruby on Rails
@@richieonganda3267 I wouldn't call other languages trends, but I am confident PHP is here to stay.
@@richieonganda3267I hope it was a joke. Backend built with javashit or php is not backend.
You're talking about legacy system
@tsolanoff it's OK... everyone starts a a fanboy, emotions all over the place, protecting the tools that you happen to know. In a decade or two, you'll relax.
As a developer with 20 years of daily experience, I think that Php is still the best way to develop web applications today
Laravel Livewire runs client side and lets you build reusable components just like a React based app. I think PHP has better built in integration with relational databases.
Yes, PHP certainly has better tooling (both built-in and 3rd party) for working with relational databases.
Yes you can do a lot with livewire but at some point you will need alpine js.
Livewire is amazing, but I don't like to think of it as running client side. More like it allows you to bind back end properties and functions to front end objects and events. To me it still keeps a good cognitive separation between what runs on server and what runs on client.
The TALL stack is really good to work with@@jmon24ify
@@kaf83yes
Livewire acts more of like an api rather than for interactivity
But combining it with alpine makes things so good
I recommend the AdonisJS framework. You can create server-side rendered web apps or APIs. You can use their own template engine like blade. You can use React, Vue, Svelte or Solid with InertiaJS. And maybe soon a TSX template engine too. Those who like Laravel will certainly enjoy working with AdonisJS. This framework is really fantastic but needs more support.
It's crap, very weak production-wise.
PHP, Bootstrap and JavaScript are enough to build a modern website. The beauty about PHP is its function library. Secondly it has been around for so long, you get a lot of support on internet. It's a joy to work with PHP.
Yeah, with htmx and even the advent of react, made me question this as well. I started with PHP4 and then slapped to learn PHP5 , converting sql statements to prepared sql statements. I did LAMP stack :P
I agree with Max! JavaScript is great for full stack applications and web sites, now. There are other options of course like: PHP-Laravel, Ruby-Ruby on Rails, Python-Django, Java-Spring, C#-.NET etc. It is about the wealth of options when it comes to making/developing web apps and websites! At the beggining of 2000s there were only few ways for making dynamic websites, now there are many ways. Developers should just choose the approach/es that suit/s them best for the projects they work on. In the end there is no "best" option! It is not all about the tools, it is how you use them. 😊
As a developer, we always devide problems to smaller ones and also we do it with code and the idea of combination of front-end and back-end can add complexity and more process to compile thease code to be usable in server and client. Because the base is seperate you need a server code and client code even if you combine them together in development you have to separate them for production mode
Two years ago, I thought for two semesters at my old high school. After class, I was talking to the teacher who was also administrating the whole mess - To make the story short, after 16 years there was still code running I wrote as a teenager.
As a solo developer as well not going to the complication setup with react, I do go PHP because it is much easier to scale migrate from different server setup. As Max say I combine my PHP with JavaScript for Dynamic client side task. For internal server side task PHP will do all of it with much better security connecting with API and database.
I started my programming career 11 years ago using PHP for 6 years. Must to say is easy to learn.
Php is perfect for the most common tasks developers need. Out of the box you have built in functions for Date math, object/array manipulation, data validation & sanitation and currency arithmetic. Each of those requires a separate library or more to do in js/node environments, when building small apps and one off sites that are only pushing blog/news/comments it just works, you then just use js for UI animations and ajax content.
Every modern language has the same toolkit in the standard library.
Always top contents!
Max, I hope you are still part of Academind, one of the most advanced channels for software development.
Yes, I am!
@@maximilian-schwarzmueller huh, great!)
Thank you for bringing this topic.
I have started using nextJs recently and I had the same feelings as yours like the php,jsp era coming back?
There are definitely benefits of server side rendering and nextJs enables mixing between server and client. It's cool but also causes confusion.
Each step with NextJs, I revalidate my SPA development habit is good or not which leads my implementation time slower.
I think it'd be awesome to have what are the real world examples of mixing server/client side components.
Fuck next js .
i am currentyl using PHP at work and building a personal project with nextjs 14 RSC and server actions, and its very similar but entirely different. i feel the new stack is much more streamlined. with PHP you need to setup a lot of stuff to get a proper experience of developing server driven web apps, but after going through with it, for me at least, the result is very similar to the new stack. you render the server side of the app, then do client interactions and client-server interactions. the methods are similar, but new its all integrated and its much faster to start with. but comapred with PHP using a framework like Laravel, the experience is so much the same it doesnt really matter any more. its a qeustion of what is more convenient for you and which ecosystem you prefer.
Totally agree. I was recently involved with a next project, where I usually work with Laravel, and found it extremely lacking compared to laravel. So much spaghetti code was written to just do simple things like seed a database, create models and what not.
Try t3 stack
Web developer since 2005. I'm fed up with how the industry only ever gets more complex. Back then, our preferred deployment method was manually uploading changed files via ftp... I recently saw a junior web dev position requiring 3 years of kubernetes.
I started webdev with .NET and Java back in 2004ish. I'm actually really starting to use quite a bit more PHP these days for client work as its so much more inexpensive and straightforward to host. PHP has also become quite a nice mature language/ecosystem and I can enjoy all of the (over)engineering I love in the Java world now, in PHP :)
i left the PHP world long time a go and got in the asp and angular stormy world but they have a huge advantage in Fintech companies, so going with the market demands is the true source of info for me. thank you ( Js and c#)
I think there is one more topic that almost no one is yelling out: PHP hosting is cheap and it comes with the database out of the box. I have a simple hobby nodeJS app and since I had to use postgres I am paying around 20eur. / month for a simple project. With PHP it would be around 5eur.
Huh? What is PHP hosting? I just use a VPS, price is only related to resources available - around 7 Eur should be enough for a small project with a cheap provider.
@@robertsandiford6223exactly, not sure what they're talking about, it costs me the exact same whether I'm using PHP or Javascript
@@robertsandiford6223 He talks about shared hosting. Shared hosting costs are significantly cheaper than VPS.
Most simple web hosting will come with PHP support. You can get that for 1-2€/month.
@@Ascarion47 You mean a cPanel account? I have cPanel hosting and I run Node.JS on it too. Only takes a minute to install.
Max, you look great brother. Watched you many years ago and you look the same age. Appreciate this video.
I started with PHP years ago like you (fellow old man) and I still use it today.
The new languages are great, but I've never needed to move. I built and run a successful saas on PHP and it's just fine.
I'm not saying it's the best, but it just works. And it's been around forever, which means it's supported and documation is everywhere
As long as your web app/website works.. the end user does not really care what is working in the backend.
I am so happy to know you've succeed ran your SaaS with PHP. While me, as a PHP dev still confuse what stack should I choose to build the SaaS. Because there are so many thoughts to not make PHP to develop SaaS. I feel excited!
Oh, the good ole days of PHP back in the day. It's was my first web programming language back in the year 2000. Can't believe it's been 24 years. 🤣😁
crazy enough there are people out there still opposing PHP thinking it works the same as it did back then.
I love your JavaScript courses
Thank you so much!
Where do I know this guy from, I know that voice... oh yeah, from a React course I did on udemy a long time ago! Nice to see you here, Max!
Nice to meet you here, too!
Yeah react and flutter in udemy, he’s the best , I took his course, but they are too many I haven’t finished them 😅
Symfony - a PHP framework- is quite awesome, especially with new versions of php getting quite elegant
I started long time ago (>15y) with PHP, I hated React for so so long. But gosh I love Next now.
It feels the best of the two world now.
Not even do I need an API aside now, not even do I need to actually spend time coding, I can full focus features, what a wonderful circle.
I see many complain about security in relation to injection, but in this context this is not a problem, we have many layers of security for this, but what I keep thinking is that this approach similar to PHP makes it possible to create systems with a single file, in PHP if the dev didn't implement a file type filter in the upload form, and if the server didn't have a well-configured server with folder permissions, all you had to do was upload a file manager and have full access to the code.
PHP with Symfony is truly a magical web builder
until Laravel came out
@@diegoc3749 Have you tried Symfony, on a complex API, not the typical CRUD API?
Symfony is a good framework. much better than Laravel. I wish people would stop being sucked into using Laravel
Laravel actually uses many Symfony components under the hood. There are many developers who eventually migrate from Laravel to Symfony, but it's rarely the other way around. Laravel is more popular because it's easier to learn, but at some point senior developers need something more mature and robust and start looking at Symfony. Laravel is extremely popular because it has great marketing and learning materials, Symfony being a bit more complex to master, but there is a reason why most PHP projects like CMS, ecommerce, etc. use Symfony as their core or many of its modules for functionality @@diegoc3749
@@RichardCatto what are the advantages?
Laravel is miles ahead any JS framework. You should make a Laravel web apps + APIs course 😅
He actually did; in fact it was one of his first courses around 8 years ago. But he took it down, probably because it became outdated.
Agreed. There are so many Laravel jobs in my area.
Agreed, I dove straight into Laravel without any prior coding experience. I simply wanted to build something for the company I was working for at the time. Oh boy, did it introduce me to many concepts I wouldn't have been aware of if I had just learned PHP first. Now, I can understand almost any framework since most share similarities once I've spent a few days reading the language syntax. The documentation is excellent, the ecosystem offers almost anything anyone can imagine to build, and the community around it is pretty strong. I use it as an API with React or Next.js for the frontend
I moved from Laravel to nestjs+typescript. If you read their docs you'll understand how its easy to follow clean architecture there, do microservice setups etc.
@@realVvDI have a friend who badly wants a job to support his family
Hello Maximilian, i would like you to know that i got my first job as a React Native developer thanks to your courses on Udemy. This is just a thank you post :)
I loved PHP. During this, he became an object oriental from 4 to 5, and then became super fast from version 7. Regardless of this, today I would only touch it if the framework was symfony. I really liked javascript. I started my modern front end with vue / nuxt js and I've let it go. As a frontend, only angular or react / next can be considered on the client side, and on the basis of node js, my favorite is the nest js framework. All this, of course, running in docker.
I started with php as well and when i discovered jquery and ajax later on, it was a revelation! and after some years am going back to php and symfony, and i like it a lot tbh
I have 12 years programming in PHP projects of different complexities and areas and it is for me the best server language in combination with Javascript and GO is simply perfect
Amazing !
Which framework of PHP do you recommend to learn first ? I am frontend developer with JS/React/TS.
@@juanortegaa6916go doesn’t need the shit like php.
I've been learning html css and js what's next? Which language or framework should i learn?
on frontend you should go for react and for backend go for nodejs express (node framework) or nest(same nodejs framwork)
no next, build your project and see what's missing, on that basis you find out where to go next.
Build something. That's the most important part of learning. Build something entirely by yourself and don't go with any tutorials or copilot.
@@_DATA_EXPUNGED_ the reason is, you encounter problems that are relevant to what you build and if you solve them the solution will stick. Solutions to irrelevant problems do not stick ... most of the time.
Great video!!
The comments in this video make me realize just how entry level the majority of the development community really is.
Can you elaborate more?
It's the frontend web devs. Since they start right away with a frontend frameworks and don't experiment outside of web dev.
What do you expect lol, most entry/junior web developers (here) are all coming from modern frontend frameworks.
True!!!
Arrogance. Too much of it in the tech world
SPAs is the main difference. They did not exist back in the old php days so php was sending back full pages or at best small ajax response fragments.
Modern js tech have made the front-end way more powerful (and also way more convoluted). You can still today perfectly use php as the backend for an angular/react app. Today we have many more alternatives of course
it must work without JS, you do not even know how many people just turn JS off when browsing the web. PHP first, then add some JS if you need it, but make sure, the whole thing works on a browser that cancels any JS.
@@swojnowski453The number of people who turn off JS is absolutely tiny. You’d have to be a developer to even understand what that means. And then any developer toggling that setting would surely understand that they’re doing so with extremely high likelihood that various parts of virtually any page they visit will cease to work.
@@bass-tones I have been a web developer for the last 28 years. I'm running multiple of my own systems. The principle is : if it does not work without JS, it is crap. You do not even know how many people turn JS just to hack websites and do it successfully. Relying on JS is single worst mistake you can do in web dev.
@@swojnowski453 Your view is reflective of a tiny and shrinking subset of the community. I’m not going to argue that _some_ simple sites should maintain fallbacks when JS is not available.
But a huge percentage of the web today is, by design, too interactive to work with JS off. Good luck creating something like Google Docs, for example, without JS. Or even for myself, just last week I was working on a live scoring system that needed Web Sockets to work in any capacity. There is no possible fallback for a tool like this.
Your point about hacking sites with JS off seems to be an argument against what you’re saying as well. You’re able to “hack” sites by turning JS off because those sites _tried_ to offer non-JS fallbacks and did it extremely poorly (likely they did not apply input validation correctly).
Except you obviously can’t do what you’re describing if the site is _fully_ dependent on JS. How are you going to “hack” a site by turning off JS if nothing on the page even loads because the site assumes the user must have JS? And again, what you’re describing is something that only a tiny subset of developers would bother to do. The average user A) has no idea what JS is, and B) would not even have the thought to turn it off. I don’t even think you _can_ turn it off on most mobile browsers, and on desktop turning it off is an “advanced” feature that 99.9% of users will rightfully never use.
Times have changed since 2000…
We are similar age and yes we all used to do PHP back then
I use Mamp right now.
ha ha, used to? I have been doing it for 28 years, it is been a gold mine, and still is, in fact it is better than ever has been ...
PHP is literally a templating language on its own. You don't need a separate templating engine to use it for that. I would love to see a better programmer than me create components using one of the front end frameworks compared with using PHP as a templating language, and see just how much worse or better each one is. For rendering mid-sized components, an inventory item card for example, PHP is extremely easy to pull that in. Combining a bunch of smaller components together into a larger component may be where it would be harder due to all of the includes that would be needed. But, I'm not positive it couldn't be done in a more elegant way than that.
JS/TS still have imports, it's all the same crap.
In PHP you might add events and use listeners for tricky components
3:25 Nobody was using raw PHP without template systems when things went serious. Same thing in Javascript as you explained later in the video. Both ecosystem and frameworks evolves. On the end it is working really the same way on low level.
Ich würd mich zu sehr dafür interessieren wie du damals den Weg zum Informatik Tutor eingeschlagen hast. Würd gern die ganze Backstory hören. Wann, wieso, was hast du in der zwischenzeit gemacht :D
We all come back to PHP, its really awesome to work with php and laravel 👍
Love it!!!!!!!
I loved the beauty of symfony and laravel.
But now I'm in love with .NET 8 😊
Do you have any plans for a Laravel tutorial at Udemy?
i started with php , and continue working with php and bunch of other stuff .. but i think php is still better option for building many websites and backend. its very cool and simple ..
I've started with PHP 🔥
In fact, my profile is to work with Laravel and ReactJS ❤🔥
how nice is to hear a real instructor not talking down on PHP, he truly know what he talks about. Not like some Andrei who is a joke of an instructor and coder.
In 2005 we had codeigniter with the MVC pattern on the backend, what is the improved and modern nextjs version of that today?
I have been using codeIgniter for some 20+ years, it is fast as a shark, no chenges needed.
Ahh man, codeigniter! That was the first framework I ever used... what a blast from the past! I wonder whatever happened to it?
@@al3nmicl Codigniter, currently version 4, is doing ok. All my web apps are powered by it and I'm very happy with performance + no downtimes. Sticking to one framework against all the shit course sellers throw at you is a key to success ;).
Javascript also has its own Laravel-like framework called AdonisJS, instead of using Blade, they have Edge with very similar syntax of Blade
Yep, that's true! Played around a bit with it + liked it quite a lot.
Adonisjs is the best nodejs backend framework 🙌🙌
Back on my day, we wrote code in binary on parchment paper. Naturally, we used ravens and pidgons as servers to transport our code.
Everything is simple.
Everything is hard.
Everything is knowledge.
Everything is perspective.
I only used php for server side and javascript for client side for last 10 years. Never needed to look else where. I developed many projects for clients and never needed something else to complete any project. Yes, you also happen to use windows binaries and python libraries in php apps for some functionalities but php always saves your back.
Max, what u tnink to make php course... the way u do ?
Frontend framework just got in the sampe path that linux distors got, a lot of duplicated frameworks just like a lot of duplicated and useless linux distros... a lot of inconsistencies and unecessary challenges, a lot of borne costs to developers and companies due to lots of exactly the same but diffrent in names! hooks, composition api,dynamic loading, resumibility etc...
Very true and i use Linux Desktop base OS. Too much freedom can turn into messy world.
@@jediampm fact
also unix philosophy of doing one small thing good we see in package management, where there are too many dependencies which is security risk and inability to do leftpad by yourself
As a Linux user I couldn't agree more.
Hi, do you plan to give a nextjs course with typescript sometime?
Typescript + Angular + Angular Material are a beautiful match for frontend development.
PHP can be used on both client side and server-side... try Laravel and Livewire
The biggest advantage to server side JavaScript isn’t that it’s the same language as the client but rather I can reuse the same components on both
you can reuse components that are impossible to test? thats interesting xD
Clientside and serverside JS are nowhere near the same. There's heaps of limitations in V8, many of which can literally never be solved due to the difference in environments.
@@Dylan_thebrand_slayer_Mulveiny React Server components in Nextjs are surprisingly seamless and easy to use once you understand the fundamentals.
@@ScottMaday You're still working around edge cases caused by the differences in environments, regardlexs of what framework you use.
@@Dylan_thebrand_slayer_Mulveiny The biggest pain is dealing with other libraries that don’t consider server side rendering in my experience. Otherwise I rarely have to work around anything
What do u think about Angular + Ionic for the frontend and Laravel Breeze (Sanctum) for backend API (if u are familiar with php, html, js, Angular, Laravel)? So to have one source code for web&mobile apps (Android/iOs).
I am new to nextjs, and I like the integrated full-stack dev part about it. But I also feel that because of its serverless architecture it poses a lot of limitations. You have to think away from nextjs if you want to build a big projects. I think something similar to nextjs without the serverless would be worth trying.
is this your new channel? ah, long time no see you. Years ago i learn many things from you, from youtube also udemy
I started with php i love it
I started doing web developing about 15 years ago. I believe that PHP and JS have both evolved pretty equally in terms of features. Developing in both languages has become so much better over the years.
I doubt JS will ever fully replace PHP. There's just too many things that PHP does more securely than could ever be done in a client, such as file and database access. There's some stuff you just can't have exposed to the client, and that's where JS falls short. Even if you obfuscate or secure your endpoints, the client can still see and modify XHR requests. Something that you can't do with server side processing. As for V8, it will never be able to fully replace PHP as a server because there's just so many limitations it has in terms of the features in the engine versus what's available in the real client. Because there isn't a 1-to-1 relation between the engine and client, you'll always have edge cases you're working around which is a terrible way to develop. I like the idea of V8, but I think it does more harm than good. It's best to leave PHP and JS separate, because they are separate languages with separate concerns.
Yes, but what if JavaScript runs on the server?
Do you know Remix or NextJS?
I can't count how many projects I did in the XAMPP. Super underrated language after version 7.
So true.
I just started with PHP and yeah I am really enjoying it. Already build a full login and registration system
Sad today's world hate simple straight forward stuff like PHP. Or else if we love simplicity why wouldn't we just stick to 2 genders but know we like 1100 gender and counting. Gender ideology must have inspired js frameworks
Glad I stopped going nuts over frontend and frameworks like NextJS and moved on to PHP with Laravel. There is InertiaJS which you can use with a frontend frameworks like Vue or React leveraging full-blown PHP from the backend.
I was thinking of trying Inertia, but it seems to be a problem with SSR...
@@todormarkov2860 Problem of what sort? Check out the doc for the SSR.
@@todormarkov2860It supports SSR
Wordpress and Symfony, which Laravel uses (used? haven't followed the ecosystem in some years) many core components from
Bro, i use php in almost all my web app projects, i use Laravel and i also add javascript to Handle AJAX requests, and is easy for me to work with theses technologies. PHP never dies.
definitely!
When are you releasing a course on PHP
let's be honest, modern stacks feel kind of stressful more than fun a lot of the time
After years of slinging React, Vue and Node.
These days if a site doesn’t need a heck of a lot of front end functionality and has a simple or no API then I will reach for PHP and jQuery when I need simple, fast performing sites.
The older I get the more simplicity I crave.
Although, I wish Laravel had not gotten rid of their small brother framework: Lumen.
I can definitely relate with this simplicity take!
In your opinion, how about the Slim PHP framework, can it replace Lumen ??
How does this integrated approach impact a microservices architecture, where the idea generally is to implement decoupled services.
I must admit that sometimes it’s difficult to choose if it’s going to be a client or server component and have to reorganize the structure while working with nextjs. But once you get a hold of it, it’s not a big problem. Other than that it’s been a joy and mostly surprising experience for large projects. Even though the question of “are we going back to php days?” might look valid, the experience of React and Nextjs is far superior. Simply one or two lines of code you can decide if it’s going to run on server or it’s full clientside idea works like magic.
Currently only problem is lighthouse score in my opinion. Just because google and lighthouse are pushing it too hard, we have to use too much dynamic imports or remove animation frameworks (framer motion) occasionally and switch to css solutions.
On the other hand, if you’re a django or lavarel developer, htmx looks a like a viable alternative (mostly great for dashboards or simple projects). But I think the future is NextJS, Astro, Svelte and similar modern frameworks.
the only reason to use server side rendering was in the past the fact that it helps SEO, can you give me some extra examples why now?
@@SXsoft99 Another benefit of server side rendering is reducing the side of bundle on the frontend
@@moka7986 code splitting too
First, I'm on the same timeline with you, so I watched, used but not trusted (especialy latest) javascript expansion as the 'best' tool for anything.
Second, I've herd this argument of 'the same language front and back ends' as the easiest way to do .... but that would be true if there would be javascript: instead all the frameworks starting with those before Angular (such as Backbone) and up to today's Vue, React, next , etc, all are reinventing and forcing own syntaxes, rules, formats, file extensions and blending Typescript in between.
Third: recall that all the big online names of today started as php websites; so as a piece of advice (for newcomers) , start simple and you'll be surprised how far you'll get until fancy architectures and js libs and frameworks may be needed.
Hello, I have been involved with Java and JavaScript frameworks for about two years to learn the easiest way to build a web. Finally, I came to the conclusion that a level knowledge of JavaScript along with PHP can be much better than React or Angular to start working. Those who know object orientation, in my opinion, if they have problems with JS frameworks, they should definitely talk about PHP.
I'm building an entire corporate intranet on my own for the company I work for. Using pure JavaScript would take forever and it would be much more complicated to ensure a cohesive architecture. JavaScript frameworks drastically reduce the delivery time.
We use Web components instead of framework, and pure PHP in the backend, and Tailwind for CSS. Websites are very fast.
You do not need a templating engine for PHP, but they do help
I share most the same thoughts, the biggest difference between Nodejs frameworks (next, nuxt, sveltekit..) and "traditional" framework (Laravel, Rails..) is really the template engine.
(1) while the traditional framework forces developer to use different template engines 1 for front + 1 for back. The mix of both template engines is often "messy" (hard to maintain)
(2) the Nodejs frameworks share the same template engine when rendering page on Server side or Frontend side => it is a lot more convient to share the same rendering logic between front and back.
I don't consider *.svelte or *.jsx as Javascript / Html / Css. Evens the syntax are 99% similaire, they are still different language.
in case (2) the barrier between Front and Back is blur but The framework would still force developer to make responsibility seperation between Server and Client because it is just unavoidable. We still have to distinguish between Javascripts on server side and JavaScript on browser side, The blurry barrier usually make things harder for inexperience developers.
Laravel and Vuejs was good choice for me last 4 years but livewire 3 change my mind. Not telling this is the best choice for development( still for SPA is vuejs better choice ) but write one in php full dynamic website without refreshing full page and loading all assets is good for most projects.
nah, your app has to work without JS first, if it doesn't it is a piece of junk ...
I'm no dev, just was always kind of interested. x) I started playing with html and later I learned some basic php-stuff. For some Reason I never was interested into JavaScript since I thought: What about people who disable JS in their browser?
Long story short: I was interested in some coding but never had ideas for content or was good in designing (graphics/stylesheets) and thus everything I made was boring and ugly so I did not continue… x)
Years later (now!) I stumbled over htmx (wich is basically an JS-Library, so much for „what if..“ xD) and play around using it with PHP. Its kind of fun and somewhat exciting but I have the same problems as back then: no idea for content and design.
So I once again prefer to spent my time on playing Video Games instead of „creating something“. x)
😅same situation but I haven't called it a quit, don't think I will since there are other creatives around who can give ideas
Ruby on Rails is still gold
Yes Max, and that's why we need a FullStack Nuxt3 course. Because it's the best way nowadays to create full-stack apps