Fun fact about Allen keys, the original standard for them has the approximate torque rating designed into each key. The key should bend before stripping a screw... If the key you are using conforms to the spec and the screw similarly conforms to it. This is literally the whole ethos behind the Allen key standard.
Wager Machine Works will get you your slide milled and coated(assuming you go with a Cerakote finish) within about a week. Jaegerwerks will take like 3-4 weeks. Is the quality any different? No. The guys at Wager Machine Works are journeyman tool and die makers. Their work is high quality and I've used them for 2 Glocks. They do also offer Nitride if you want a more permanent coating on your slide. Keep in mind the vast majority of shops doing optic cuts are using CNC mills. They aren't doing it on a bridgeport. You can test Wager with a step micrometer or any other precision measurement instrument you'd like and you will find that the quality is on point. I am also in the Tool and Die trade which is why I trusted Wager in the first place. They're based in Tennessee and had my slide returned to me within 10 days total(including the weekend) when I ordered around the Holidays. I live 4 states away.
Back when he lived in NY. I got a slide back in 4 days. Awesome quality work. I use him for all my milling, and if you message him, he can do windowing
I sent my CZ P07 to Jagerwerks for the RMR cut and rear sight moved in front of the optic. Turn around was almost 6 weeks. The fitment of the optic is absolutely perfect.
Good practice with "loctite" that always gets overlooked is that the screw/screw holes need to be degreased and dryed before a thread locker should be applied. Acetone or rubbing alchohol works great. 💪
This is a great video, issues with the MOS system (and other plate adapter systems) is why I went with Shadow Systems. Direct mount optics with compatibility for multiple footprints and a tight fit!
I have the Glock 19 gen IV MOS and like it. I also have the Shadow Systems MR920 and absolutely love it, glock clone with lots of better parts and a better shooter. Great pistols made right here in Texas.
I was lucky. My local shop Spartan Arm’s in Las Vegas has a great gunsmith that does milling. Solid work, great service, and the cerakote is top-notch.
I don't recommend Battle Werx anymore. They damaged my slide and have refused to get back to me. And now that I've sent negative feedback, now they want to resolve my issue. I will never trust Battle Werx ever again.
I think the best reason to have backup sites is for if the battery fails or the red dot malfunctions. I have never even considered any of the other scenarios he listed as a reason to use back up sights.
The chances of that happening at the exact moment you need to you gun in self-defense would probably be astronomical. Also most self defense happens at 3-10 yards. at that distance i can point shoot and hit a man 100%.@T1ddlywinks
@@shuamolt1 You should never slave the dot to the irons. They are two different sighting systems. Shoot the target with the red dot and make windage and elevation adj. based on where you aimed and where the bullet impacts....
When you have a slide milled can you use any optic? I was under the impression that it can only be used on one specific optic? I only ask because I noticed he thought about using two different optics.
Sometime ago I thought about trading in a Glock 22 (.40 S&W) pistol but they offered me a fraction of the price I paid for it. I purchased a Lone Wold 9 mm threaded conversion to see how I would like it before spending more money on a higher end barrel. I have been throughly impressed with the 100 dollar conversion barrel from Lone Wolf. Next step is to get a slide cut and put a Cyelee WOLF2 STIG-RS (Astigmatism Relief) red dot for it. Sometimes it's worth it to spend a little more in upgrades instead of taking a loss in trade.
I’m a super fan of the Glock 22 gen 3 it is such a fun gun to shot more kick recoil feels slower of course but smooth and it’s a good defense bullet and hollows and steel runs without issues
Even if you aren't looking DOWN the sights, I think having backups helps me understand where I'm pointing the weapon and find the dot quicker.... wish my p365xl didn't force me to remove the rear sight (at least the EPS carry has a notch)
You shouldn't be using irons to point you in any direction i keep them on my carry but thats not a efficient way to use them at all you should be target focused
Is it not possible to focus on your target while also seeing both your front and rear irons in your peripheral vision? Doesn't this clue you in on where the barrel is aiming? I think it could be useful as a reference to aid in pointing consistently @@boomee78
@@boomee78 You can be "target focued" and still have an idea of where your sights are positioned. It's exactly what people do who are "target focusing" while using iron sights. Look, some people want to have cowitness irons, especially with the significantly higher failure rate (I don't care if yours "runs good") of pistol optics vs rifle optics. Telling the man what he "should" be doing is just a waste of bandwidth.
Everyone says there are reliability issues with the MOS system but I’ve never encountered any. Have any of you had issues or has your experience been positive with MOS Glocks?
My beef with the system is theoretical. Not a fan of having another point of failure. Why use a multi purpose optic plate for a collection of reflex sights over just standardizing on your favorite particular model/footprint and use a purpose-made cut for direct mounting?
I don't think the reliability issue is with the gun but rather the plates. Perhaps they've improved in the last four or five years but when I got my first gen 5 mos I could tell immediately the plate system was garbage. I stopped buying the MOS system and instead send mine off for RMR milling since that is the footprint I prefer. The MOS models I still have I have ACROs and 509T on, since those mount to the MOS holes.
I had to send a G19 slide back to Glock because one of my plate mounting screws(i.e the screw mounting the plate to the slide itself) sheared and it sheared flush with the slide. It was locktited and none of the tricks I had at my disposal worked.
Only thing about the back up irons I can say is I went to pull my gun from the holster and the dot was some how turned off from the previous course of fire (holosun ofc). Picked up the irons quick instead of fiddling and losing time.
I've been watching ncengravers for years and have been thinking about sending them my glock 21SF slide for optic milling. I also like to run supressor height sights with my red dots
One of the main advantages of the bosses is that they take some of the shear force while the slide is cycling. Without bosses, the screws take all the shear force. So the bosses make it less likely that you will have a screw failure.
I sent my 19X slide to Wager for a RMR cut. I didn’t even have to make a single windage or elevation adjustment. It fit perfectly zeroed. The gun has a Radian Ramjet setup. I tested it from 10-20 yards with 124 grain that I shoot. That included hollow points and ball.
Iam thinking about buying these pistol one of them is the FN501 10mm and the M&P 2.0 10mm what is your opinion on them the good or the bad the ugly about them
Did this a few yrs ago with my old gen 3 G19. Sent it to JagerWerks for the same simple RMR cut. Sent the Holosun 508T with the slide and they even mounted it along with new irons…had the slide back in 10 weeks or so. Highly recommend JagerWerks.
Don’t send your daily carry it’ll drive you nuts. 15 weeks is more than 3 months without your firearm and that’s what it took for me to get mine back. That’s just too long for my taste.
So I don't disagree about the suppressor height sights, but there's no reason not to just leave the normal sights on there. Worst case you can unscrew the optic and your good to go.
foot pounds? No fucking wonder. Torque for optics is supposed to be inch pounds. Even if you went over by 3 inch pounds it wouldnt affect the screws at all. You either overtorqued by way too much or you bought a crappy chinese optic. 15 inch pounds is generally what most optic companies recommend, I always torque to about 18-20 inch pounds and have never had an issue. @TrashPanda2801
A couple of things, purple is a lower strength loctite than blue, and green is a 'wicking grade', also lower strength. backup irons are generally a good idea in case batteries fail and you don't have (or don't have time to use) a backup battery, if gunk cakes up the emitter (not the glass), or, and this has happened to me before, your screws strip and the sight comes flying off in the middle of a range day.
I run backup irons simply because i have guns with red dots everywhere (truck, office, shop) and rarely check batteries. I keep backup irons on simply in case I forgot to change the battery and it dies. Same with rifles.
@@Bigrig2020-c1dits striker fired sig😂 whats better its modular the triggers arent amazing the slides scratch I own 2 legions its not $1000 worth of gun
@@gordo3697 not worth the money but yet owns 2 of the high end models 💀 you’re proving my point there. Also I always hear about this rust/slide scratching issue but never seen it on any sig that wasn’t police issue and literally just beat on 🤷🏼♂️
I like to run backup irons on setups where I can co-witness them with my optic, so If I ever question my zero, or have to remove/replace my optic, I can quickly get my optic zeroed to the irons. You can do this the other way around too, if you are adding irons and have an optic on it that is already zeroed.
Innovate how? Glock is massively successful because they continue to improve upon what works. My gripe with Glock is that they don't keep up with market demands. They offered a rimfire about a decade late and still won't put a light rail on the G26 because not the FBI I guess. If you want innovation then be a beta tester for Sig.
I understand your argument about irons, but in your echelon video that DPP went out on you. A new battery didn't fix it. The red dot could fail without obscuring the glass, in which case back up irons would be useful. All this being said i don't run back up irons
I’m going with battlewerkz for my non mos glock 45 slide….mainly because I’ve got a threaded barrel and pmm duty comp, that I swap back and forth with my Ecco canine suppressor. Not a fan of the radian since it won’t work for all ammo reliably. And even my Johnny Glocks combat trigger kit with vex show and striker….starts life as a glock performance trigger that he polishes and does his voodoo on. All Glock everything including the maritime cups and +2’s on my oem 17 mags. EPS carry mrs milled with black camo cerakote. It’s an awesome pistol with 100% reliably.
Red loctite on an optic that needs removing to change battery?! However I have Holosun 407 on my 17 and I can use my regular height sights to co-witness
I love running all black no tritium Dawson Precision Backup Irons. And if your glass shatters you can take something in a emergency and scrap out the remaining glass to see your front sight and finish your mission.
From personal experience, I've had blue Loctite get loose because of heat. (With things relating to my job), however I'm not sure if this is a big issue with pistols.
Don't go by color on Locktite go by number,it's designed for different thread count & screw sizes,& vibratite is also an option,a small dot is all you want
I stopped using back up irons on my rifle and handgun a few years ago when I heard Frank Proctor talking about it. Gave it a try and never used backups again.
It's funny when people insist on backup irons for magnified optics that aren't on QD mounts. Doesn't occur to them that their backup irons will be useless if they can't get their broken optic out of the way fast.
@@DwightSproull you dont keep wrenches in your kit? Even in some sort of a combat setting if your optic gets destroyed youre in the kind of trouble a QD mount isnt going to fix.
I do not run iron sights either. I understand most self defense shooting are withing 3yrd-10yrds I can "point shoot" A zones with ease at those distances
If you leave the original sights on, you'll have sights when the MOS screws fail and the red dot hits you in the forehead while shooting and you want to continue shooting. Don't ask me how I found out. Obviously, a proper direct mount is mechanically superior to the MOS so it may not be as helpful in that slide.
Never got a gun cut for an optic before so this gonna be fun. I said I was gonna sell my 17 & get an mos 17, then find out that MOS 17 been discontinued 😡😂. Regular 17g5 still available. I wanna get it cut at this point since I don’t have a choice at this point. you can’t even buy a 17 MOS OEM upper, or I’d have to get a 47mos 45mos or 19mos. Direct milling sounds better anyways just gotta pick an optic at this point I guess
I’ve always felt the same way about back up iron but I still got them anyway, because I was told to. I believe the tide for this is turning for sure and you just have to have courage of conviction.
Two years ago I thought the same thing. Of course you know how welcoming the gun community is to new ideas lol. I bought two new set. Used one. Other is still in the package, brand new. Might sell it. Who knows but I'm hoping it catches on and don't need irons anymore
@@davidgaines8607If you’re going to have something then you have to actually be proficient with it. Buying them costs money. Proficiency costs money and time. Most people don’t shoot enough to be proficient with one type of sight, let alone two. Iron sights fail, yet I never heard anyone say, “I don’t see a downside to having two sets of iron sights.” We just accepted that the failure rate was very low. In 20 years in the Army I had two sets of iron sights fail and zero optics fail. Anecdotal but true.
Brownells sells RMR cut slides for 170 bucks. Their slides have a great track record going back years. The cut is deep enough to co witness standard height trijicon fiber optic sights through a holosun 507c window.
@@TREXARMORY True, though as far as aftermarket slides go, 17-4 steel, and black nitride finish is the best one can get from the non-OEM market. I don't believe in using 416 steel, or cerakote for a slide.
Thank you. Now that someone popular says it, others will listen. I don't put irons on anymore either. I've been on that train of thought for several years now.
Will the Eotech 512 sight withstand an EMP attack ( either missile generated or solar flare ) ? No, there is no commercially available red dot or holographic sight that withstand an EMP. This is why I will always consider Iron Sites. Don't know if you thought about this.
The irons don't take up any extra space and weigh nothing. Theres also the esthetic of having them on vs an empty mill slot on the back and an open hole in the front. Its just kinda dumb leaving them off. Especially when basically every company reintsalls them for free. To each their own
Get it milled for MOS then use foward controls design or C&H precision plate future proof your gun for better optics down the line. (I think vibra tite vc-3 is a superior choice not that loctite is bad)
I love a eureka moment. I’ve always thought about BUIS as crucial on red dot pistols. But tbh I just don’t think it is. I’ll keep them on my threaded P07 since they’re there and it looks cool, but whatever my next carry gun is I’ll be fine without sights. Pistol dots are just so dang good nowadays.
Only scenario I can see back up irons being used realistically is if battery dies or electronics fail for some reason. Would suck to be at a class and you forgot to change your battery beforehand and it went down
If you have a gen 1-4 Glock and you have it milled pay the extra to add front slide serrations. You will thank me I promise. Ps front of slides are slippery and you run them from the front.
I don't run a dot but plenty of time I've been in classes where guys with dots have issues and their iron can't co witness so they either get ejected from the class or the class comes to a halt while they work on their pistol for 15 minutes. And their dots are commonly trijicon. I'm not anti dot but the faith in a mechanically delicate circuit board is odd IMHO. I was running a dot on my rifle when it died mid drill in a class, flipped up my rear irons and finished the drill.
Interesting fact about Loctite is that it actually has directions right on the side of the bottle.
😂 “The more you know…”
What. I’ve been using it as a little extra seasoning in my spaghetti for years. Huh. Never would have thunk.
But reading is HARD & needs um like, master high level training classes & stuff
Which side of the bottle?
@@heinrichstoltz1356 That's the secret ! 😛
Fun fact about Allen keys, the original standard for them has the approximate torque rating designed into each key. The key should bend before stripping a screw... If the key you are using conforms to the spec and the screw similarly conforms to it.
This is literally the whole ethos behind the Allen key standard.
Ahhh I thought so
I didn't know that, thanks for the tip!
Like a torsion bar ? 🤔
Wager Machine Works will get you your slide milled and coated(assuming you go with a Cerakote finish) within about a week. Jaegerwerks will take like 3-4 weeks. Is the quality any different? No. The guys at Wager Machine Works are journeyman tool and die makers. Their work is high quality and I've used them for 2 Glocks. They do also offer Nitride if you want a more permanent coating on your slide.
Keep in mind the vast majority of shops doing optic cuts are using CNC mills. They aren't doing it on a bridgeport. You can test Wager with a step micrometer or any other precision measurement instrument you'd like and you will find that the quality is on point.
I am also in the Tool and Die trade which is why I trusted Wager in the first place. They're based in Tennessee and had my slide returned to me within 10 days total(including the weekend) when I ordered around the Holidays. I live 4 states away.
Can confirm. For under $150, I had my G19 Gen 4 milled, cerakoted and back to me in under a week.
Back when he lived in NY. I got a slide back in 4 days. Awesome quality work. I use him for all my milling, and if you message him, he can do windowing
Love wager machine works. Great work and fast turn around.
Can confirm this as well. I live in NC and they had it back to me within 7 days. High quality and great responsive staff if you have any questions.
Hello does Wager have website
Battlewerx has done all my milling on all of my glocks. Their attention to detail is next to none!
I sent my CZ P07 to Jagerwerks for the RMR cut and rear sight moved in front of the optic. Turn around was almost 6 weeks. The fitment of the optic is absolutely perfect.
Good practice with "loctite" that always gets overlooked is that the screw/screw holes need to be degreased and dryed before a thread locker should be applied. Acetone or rubbing alchohol works great. 💪
But can they mill it in 10 days or less…. Guaranteed?
Mill deez nuts. 😂
🤨
This is a great video, issues with the MOS system (and other plate adapter systems) is why I went with Shadow Systems. Direct mount optics with compatibility for multiple footprints and a tight fit!
I have the Glock 19 gen IV MOS and like it. I also have the Shadow Systems MR920 and absolutely love it, glock clone with lots of better parts and a better shooter. Great pistols made right here in Texas.
Scs
I was lucky. My local shop Spartan Arm’s in Las Vegas has a great gunsmith that does milling. Solid work, great service, and the cerakote is top-notch.
The one in Vegas??
@@broncoBACON yeah, they are a bit out of the way for me, but they worked on my 19 and absolutely crushed it.
Good to know! I wasn’t aware that they performed that service
Spartan Arms is bas ass!
I used battlewerx for milling same process on g27 with sro. They do the rmr cut with the 2 screw post.
I don't recommend Battle Werx anymore. They damaged my slide and have refused to get back to me. And now that I've sent negative feedback, now they want to resolve my issue. I will never trust Battle Werx ever again.
Had Primary Machine mill my VP9, and its been great.
That's a super valid point on running backup sights
I think the best reason to have backup sites is for if the battery fails or the red dot malfunctions. I have never even considered any of the other scenarios he listed as a reason to use back up sights.
The chances of that happening at the exact moment you need to you gun in self-defense would probably be astronomical. Also most self defense happens at 3-10 yards. at that distance i can point shoot and hit a man 100%.@T1ddlywinks
How do you sight in the dot without hard sights? I would keep them just for that purpose.
@@shuamolt1 You should never slave the dot to the irons. They are two different sighting systems. Shoot the target with the red dot and make windage and elevation adj. based on where you aimed and where the bullet impacts....
When you have a slide milled can you use any optic? I was under the impression that it can only be used on one specific optic? I only ask because I noticed he thought about using two different optics.
Wager machine, great optics cuts. Lead time is like a week.
Wager is the way. Good dudes who are experienced in the trade.
Wager did my cut, irons forward, front serrations, and cerakote for less than 200 beans and had it back to me in a week. Can't beat that.
Shhhhhh 👀 you’re gonna increase the lead time
@@thatonedooodgetting my 19X done by en and probably gonna order a 43X to get milled and 19 to get milled. RMR ALL THE THINGS
has a stock glock ever had reliability issues after being cut and fitted for red dots... like it messes with slide weight or reciprocal trouble?
People can use the wrong length screws which prevents the extractor from working
@@thatonedoood only if its drilled that deep
Trex is a dork for the ages, channel blows goats
Sometime ago I thought about trading in a Glock 22 (.40 S&W) pistol but they offered me a fraction of the price I paid for it. I purchased a Lone Wold 9 mm threaded conversion to see how I would like it before spending more money on a higher end barrel. I have been throughly impressed with the 100 dollar conversion barrel from Lone Wolf. Next step is to get a slide cut and put a Cyelee WOLF2 STIG-RS (Astigmatism Relief) red dot for it. Sometimes it's worth it to spend a little more in upgrades instead of taking a loss in trade.
I’m a super fan of the Glock 22 gen 3 it is such a fun gun to shot more kick recoil feels slower of course but smooth and it’s a good defense bullet and hollows and steel runs without issues
Did u change out the ejector when converting?
@@eddierivera2908 I believe I did as it was an easy process.
I know dd,bcm are good uppers but what do you think of gesslie & midwest industries uppers?
Even if you aren't looking DOWN the sights, I think having backups helps me understand where I'm pointing the weapon and find the dot quicker.... wish my p365xl didn't force me to remove the rear sight (at least the EPS carry has a notch)
You shouldn't be using irons to point you in any direction i keep them on my carry but thats not a efficient way to use them at all you should be target focused
Is it not possible to focus on your target while also seeing both your front and rear irons in your peripheral vision? Doesn't this clue you in on where the barrel is aiming? I think it could be useful as a reference to aid in pointing consistently @@boomee78
@@boomee78 You can be "target focued" and still have an idea of where your sights are positioned. It's exactly what people do who are "target focusing" while using iron sights. Look, some people want to have cowitness irons, especially with the significantly higher failure rate (I don't care if yours "runs good") of pistol optics vs rifle optics. Telling the man what he "should" be doing is just a waste of bandwidth.
You should have sent yours into wager machine works. Best turn around time and prices, plus they’re out there in Tennessee now.
the gooping of the locktite.? ? .has anyone had them hydrolock. . possibly damage slide?
Everyone says there are reliability issues with the MOS system but I’ve never encountered any. Have any of you had issues or has your experience been positive with MOS Glocks?
My beef with the system is theoretical. Not a fan of having another point of failure. Why use a multi purpose optic plate for a collection of reflex sights over just standardizing on your favorite particular model/footprint and use a purpose-made cut for direct mounting?
I don't think the reliability issue is with the gun but rather the plates. Perhaps they've improved in the last four or five years but when I got my first gen 5 mos I could tell immediately the plate system was garbage. I stopped buying the MOS system and instead send mine off for RMR milling since that is the footprint I prefer. The MOS models I still have I have ACROs and 509T on, since those mount to the MOS holes.
I've had two failures with the MOS so far. -Lucas
@@TREXARMORYwhat exactly happened? just a minor plate shift or launching the optic?
I had to send a G19 slide back to Glock because one of my plate mounting screws(i.e the screw mounting the plate to the slide itself) sheared and it sheared flush with the slide. It was locktited and none of the tricks I had at my disposal worked.
Thank you for the helpful video, I watched this on a whim and learned a surprising amount.
Only thing about the back up irons I can say is I went to pull my gun from the holster and the dot was some how turned off from the previous course of fire (holosun ofc). Picked up the irons quick instead of fiddling and losing time.
I totally with you on the backup iron sights! If your glass breaks you'd have to remove the optic in the field to use them.
3:36 cs source?
I've been watching ncengravers for years and have been thinking about sending them my glock 21SF slide for optic milling. I also like to run supressor height sights with my red dots
They do amazing work.
@@SmartShootersLLC pretty affordable too for just red dot milling service
I got my Glock 45 slide done by them recently it was $142 and it was back to me in 8 days
I was about to pick up a G45 MOS today..... And only shoot with red dots, now wondering how durable it'll be!?
One of the main advantages of the bosses is that they take some of the shear force while the slide is cycling. Without bosses, the screws take all the shear force. So the bosses make it less likely that you will have a screw failure.
Actually if its cut correctly the dot stays in there
I sent my 19X slide to Wager for a RMR cut. I didn’t even have to make a single windage or elevation adjustment. It fit perfectly zeroed. The gun has a Radian Ramjet setup. I tested it from 10-20 yards with 124 grain that I shoot. That included hollow points and ball.
Iam thinking about buying these pistol one of them is the FN501 10mm and the M&P 2.0 10mm what is your opinion on them the good or the bad the ugly about them
Just sent a slide off to battle werx for acro cut . I no longer run irons either, front post is there just for aesthetic reasons
Did this a few yrs ago with my old gen 3 G19. Sent it to JagerWerks for the same simple RMR cut. Sent the Holosun 508T with the slide and they even mounted it along with new irons…had the slide back in 10 weeks or so. Highly recommend JagerWerks.
I do not recommend JagerWerks. They completely damaged my brand new red dot, and will not respond back to me.
@@ABCABC-hw5zhYou sound like a spam name.
Don’t send your daily carry it’ll drive you nuts. 15 weeks is more than 3 months without your firearm and that’s what it took for me to get mine back. That’s just too long for my taste.
@@travisjacobson7126 Almost all of these services have that long of a turn around
@@travisjacobson7126sounds like you need a backup carry gun ;)
Sent my g19 gen 4 to jeagerwerks a couple of weeks ago for the same optics cut job can’t wait to get it back.
Ive been thinking about getting my G19x slide milled...
Without back up iron sights, why not just add a dovetail mount to the rear for the optic?
If I send a gun in that already has iron sights will they have to remove them?
So I don't disagree about the suppressor height sights, but there's no reason not to just leave the normal sights on there. Worst case you can unscrew the optic and your good to go.
A major reason for optic mount failure is improper torquing of the screws. ALWAYS use a good torque driver set to the manufacturer’s instructions!
@TrashPanda2801 Yep! The same thing happened to me and I learned my lesson.
foot pounds? No fucking wonder. Torque for optics is supposed to be inch pounds. Even if you went over by 3 inch pounds it wouldnt affect the screws at all. You either overtorqued by way too much or you bought a crappy chinese optic. 15 inch pounds is generally what most optic companies recommend, I always torque to about 18-20 inch pounds and have never had an issue. @TrashPanda2801
A couple of things, purple is a lower strength loctite than blue, and green is a 'wicking grade', also lower strength. backup irons are generally a good idea in case batteries fail and you don't have (or don't have time to use) a backup battery, if gunk cakes up the emitter (not the glass), or, and this has happened to me before, your screws strip and the sight comes flying off in the middle of a range day.
Why don't they make a SRO that fits mounts on thr rear iron site mounting cut?
I run backup irons simply because i have guns with red dots everywhere (truck, office, shop) and rarely check batteries. I keep backup irons on simply in case I forgot to change the battery and it dies. Same with rifles.
I think I need to try a 1 MOA sro i feel like the dot will show up more crisp with my astigmatism since it’s smaller but idk.
Unless you're doing alot of shooting at 50 yards or more and on smaller targets, 1 moa is not ideal on a handgun in any other situation
1 moa dot is a great option
I wonder if you can port a comp into g48 slide and put a g43 barrel into it? That woukd make it like the 365x macro
Just buy the SIG they are 10X better……
@@Bigrig2020-c1dits striker fired sig😂 whats better its modular the triggers arent amazing the slides scratch I own 2 legions its not $1000 worth of gun
And a macrox holds 17 from the factory
@@gordo3697 not worth the money but yet owns 2 of the high end models 💀 you’re proving my point there. Also I always hear about this rust/slide scratching issue but never seen it on any sig that wasn’t police issue and literally just beat on 🤷🏼♂️
I've had excellent experience with Maple Leaf firearms milling my slide. Interestingly they're in North Texas.
I like to run backup irons on setups where I can co-witness them with my optic, so If I ever question my zero, or have to remove/replace my optic, I can quickly get my optic zeroed to the irons. You can do this the other way around too, if you are adding irons and have an optic on it that is already zeroed.
Jager Works is the bomb! Got my 19X OEM slide done for the Acro P2. Best job ever
Patriot CNC in Stillwater, OK does the work on all my handguns. Truly second to none.
I have a G19 they milled for ACRO. They absolutely killed it
Gotta prep the screws. I take break cleaner and a paper towel and wipe off the mold release on the screws.
Glock doesn't innovate, don't you know that?!@%!
don't need to innovate on perfection broether
Innovate how? Glock is massively successful because they continue to improve upon what works. My gripe with Glock is that they don't keep up with market demands. They offered a rimfire about a decade late and still won't put a light rail on the G26 because not the FBI I guess. If you want innovation then be a beta tester for Sig.
I understand your argument about irons, but in your echelon video that DPP went out on you. A new battery didn't fix it. The red dot could fail without obscuring the glass, in which case back up irons would be useful.
All this being said i don't run back up irons
1:42 "those MOS plates could fail...I've had all sorts of issues" then he acts like there no other issues than optic occlusion.
So why does Lucas prefer a gen 3 Glock over a gen 5?
Shoutout to Maple Leaf Firearms. Based in Texas, they do amazing optic cuts!
How reliable are conversion barrels for a Glock 22?
Anyone have experience with that?
Lone wolf makes an excellent product
I just bought the Holosun scs and im enjoying it, best part is I don’t need a base plate or fiddle with 0’ing in as much. But that’s just me.
I’m going with battlewerkz for my non mos glock 45 slide….mainly because I’ve got a threaded barrel and pmm duty comp, that I swap back and forth with my Ecco canine suppressor. Not a fan of the radian since it won’t work for all ammo reliably. And even my Johnny Glocks combat trigger kit with vex show and striker….starts life as a glock performance trigger that he polishes and does his voodoo on. All Glock everything including the maritime cups and +2’s on my oem 17 mags. EPS carry mrs milled with black camo cerakote. It’s an awesome pistol with 100% reliably.
I wish I knew that the rear sight should sit in front of the red dot before I did mine.
Red loctite on an optic that needs removing to change battery?!
However I have Holosun 407 on my 17 and I can use my regular height sights to co-witness
I love running all black no tritium Dawson Precision Backup Irons. And if your glass shatters you can take something in a emergency and scrap out the remaining glass to see your front sight and finish your mission.
What’s the name of the company?
Range by me had a Glock 45 factory milled (no plates) with an acro P2 on it for $1250. Immediately put the 19 MOS on consignment.
From personal experience, I've had blue Loctite get loose because of heat. (With things relating to my job), however I'm not sure if this is a big issue with pistols.
its not an to loosen up red loctite on a glock rmr you have to be careful not to overheat certain parts in the slide
I think you guys need to start making your own slides, l would buy one.
Primary Machine already makes them cheap.
@@mackies9151 I picked a few from AIMSURPLUS good prices.
Does anyone else have their trijicon sro turn itself off while carrying?
Blue thread lock GEL is awesome.
Don't go by color on Locktite go by number,it's designed for different thread count & screw sizes,& vibratite is also an option,a small dot is all you want
Jagerwerk did my CZ P10 3 years ago.
I stopped using back up irons on my rifle and handgun a few years ago when I heard Frank Proctor talking about it. Gave it a try and never used backups again.
It's funny when people insist on backup irons for magnified optics that aren't on QD mounts. Doesn't occur to them that their backup irons will be useless if they can't get their broken optic out of the way fast.
@@DwightSproull you dont keep wrenches in your kit?
Even in some sort of a combat setting if your optic gets destroyed youre in the kind of trouble a QD mount isnt going to fix.
@@JohnBrowningsGhost I do keep a set of fix-it-sticks with the socket for optic mounts.
been waiting a month and a half for my rmr cuts at my LGS smh
I do not run iron sights either. I understand most self defense shooting are withing 3yrd-10yrds
I can "point shoot" A zones with ease at those distances
Awesome video!!
If you leave the original sights on, you'll have sights when the MOS screws fail and the red dot hits you in the forehead while shooting and you want to continue shooting. Don't ask me how I found out. Obviously, a proper direct mount is mechanically superior to the MOS so it may not be as helpful in that slide.
Is this going to be a new feature in call of duty?
Can you make a video review of Chinese copies of NVG for $200-500
Relevant topic! Thanks!
Never got a gun cut for an optic before so this gonna be fun. I said I was gonna sell my 17 & get an mos 17, then find out that MOS 17 been discontinued 😡😂. Regular 17g5 still available. I wanna get it cut at this point since I don’t have a choice at this point. you can’t even buy a 17 MOS OEM upper, or I’d have to get a 47mos 45mos or 19mos. Direct milling sounds better anyways just gotta pick an optic at this point I guess
Great info, thank you!
I’ve always felt the same way about back up iron but I still got them anyway, because I was told to. I believe the tide for this is turning for sure and you just have to have courage of conviction.
Two years ago I thought the same thing. Of course you know how welcoming the gun community is to new ideas lol. I bought two new set. Used one. Other is still in the package, brand new. Might sell it. Who knows but I'm hoping it catches on and don't need irons anymore
I don't see a down side to having them.
@@davidgaines8607none at all.
@@davidgaines8607If you’re going to have something then you have to actually be proficient with it. Buying them costs money. Proficiency costs money and time. Most people don’t shoot enough to be proficient with one type of sight, let alone two. Iron sights fail, yet I never heard anyone say, “I don’t see a downside to having two sets of iron sights.” We just accepted that the failure rate was very low. In 20 years in the Army I had two sets of iron sights fail and zero optics fail. Anecdotal but true.
Brownells sells RMR cut slides for 170 bucks. Their slides have a great track record going back years. The cut is deep enough to co witness standard height trijicon fiber optic sights through a holosun 507c window.
That is one option, but it's not the same material as a Glock slide.
@@TREXARMORY
True, though as far as aftermarket slides go, 17-4 steel, and black nitride finish is the best one can get from the non-OEM market.
I don't believe in using 416 steel, or cerakote for a slide.
Im surprised you dont torex the screws down
Oooooo I really like this type of video!
I’ve been using a 6 MOA dot and much prefer it to the smaller ones. Interested to hear how you like the 5 MOA on the SRO.
I’ve had amazing results with C&H
What do you suggest for my dog?? She smells bullshi reallll easily and won’t budge after this video. How do I maker her obey????
Thank you. Now that someone popular says it, others will listen. I don't put irons on anymore either. I've been on that train of thought for several years now.
Lucas recommending the German torque spec… Guten tight!!
Will the Eotech 512 sight withstand an EMP attack ( either missile generated or solar flare ) ? No, there is no commercially available red dot or holographic sight that withstand an EMP. This is why I will always consider Iron Sites. Don't know if you thought about this.
The irons don't take up any extra space and weigh nothing. Theres also the esthetic of having them on vs an empty mill slot on the back and an open hole in the front. Its just kinda dumb leaving them off. Especially when basically every company reintsalls them for free. To each their own
Great video
All my Glocks have been milled by Jagerwerks. They do great work.
Get it milled for MOS then use foward controls design or C&H precision plate future proof your gun for better optics down the line.
(I think vibra tite vc-3 is a superior choice not that loctite is bad)
I see no point in getting a slide cut and then still having to use plates
C&H has gone downhill the last few years
Oh snap! 😮 I didn't know Commander Phillip Graves aka ( shadow 0-1 ) did guns videos lol. 👍🏻
I love a eureka moment. I’ve always thought about BUIS as crucial on red dot pistols. But tbh I just don’t think it is. I’ll keep them on my threaded P07 since they’re there and it looks cool, but whatever my next carry gun is I’ll be fine without sights. Pistol dots are just so dang good nowadays.
Only scenario I can see back up irons being used realistically is if battery dies or electronics fail for some reason. Would suck to be at a class and you forgot to change your battery beforehand and it went down
It's really just foolish not to have irons on the pistol. The cost is negligible compared to the cost of the dot, firearm, ammo, and training.
Dude the camera angle is like 15 ft away. I can't see it.
Recoil Gunworks is where you find em. You’re welcome.
If you have a gen 1-4 Glock and you have it milled pay the extra to add front slide serrations. You will thank me I promise. Ps front of slides are slippery and you run them from the front.
I don't run a dot but plenty of time I've been in classes where guys with dots have issues and their iron can't co witness so they either get ejected from the class or the class comes to a halt while they work on their pistol for 15 minutes.
And their dots are commonly trijicon.
I'm not anti dot but the faith in a mechanically delicate circuit board is odd IMHO.
I was running a dot on my rifle when it died mid drill in a class, flipped up my rear irons and finished the drill.
In the words of GBRS, “I don’t have back up irons, because I have shooting buddies”