100% I don't see it as an alegory of moving away from past demons though, because the other nebula was still a being, one that is now dead. A little extreme to kill someone to reflect personal growth, lol.
I didn't take it as JUST a reflection on personal growth tbh. I took it as a deliberately unsettling scene about personal growth AND the fact that death/happenstance can come for you before you had a decwnt shot at Personal Growth and that just...is what it is. It was just utterly tragic.
Like, I even have memories of this scene feeling a little out of place or thrown-togwther or just...not very dramatised within the movie? That might just be my memory. That might might be something that happened in the editing of Endgame. But it also might just be what the scene was about: sometimes shit just happens to you (the second Gamorra) and sometimes even the people who have the most possible sympathy in the world for you and your story see that, but they still gotta do what they gotta do. It is what it is. It do be like that.
It was bad writing. If older you kills younger you would you not fade away ? So when older Nebula kills younger Nebula and she didn't fade away that means younger Thanos Nebula and Gamora were from another universe. So in that universe Drax dosnt join the guardians of the galaxy because there is no Thanos to get revenge on . Nebula dosnt join she is dead and Gamora dosnt she is trapped in ours . So ego the living Plant destroys all life in the universe since the guardians of the galaxy are too weak to stop him . This means spider man black panther and his people captain marvel Dr strange antman and all the avengers are villains . They saved half the life in our universe but killed all life in another. Bad writing
Strange how James Gunn is considered to have “made Marvel just funny all the time”, yet his films are the some of the darkest movies in the MCU. Literally all of his main villains commit genocide.
True. And if the jokes are funny and don’t take away from the tension, I’m fine with it. Guardians trilogy, Infinity War/Endgame worked for me for the same reasons why the Ant-man movies and Thor L&T don’t. Prioritizing comedy when the jokes have a poor batting average (imo) is a bummer.
@@CrowTRobot the first Ant-Man movie was good (possibly because they still had Edgar Wright’s script), but the trilogy got worse with every installment.
@@CrowTRobot Thor L&T is Ragnarok 2.0 - Saying the humor in one worked but didn't in the other is a weird take. Funny it's the same opinion repeated all over the internet
@@ikptsHave to disagree with this, the jokes in Ragnarok were legitimately funny (Hulk jumping out of a ship to flop on the bridge) and also did not detract from the plot. The screaming goats meanwhile were the opposite of this. Even Korg is funny and charming in Ragnarok, while dull and obnoxious in L&T 🤷
@@MichaelChelen The jokes in Ragnarok might be funnier, but they still noticeably detract from the plot. Thor spends nearly the entire movie out of character. Banner spends his screen time up to his jump concerned that Hulk won't ever let him return if he takes over again. He's making a sacrifice to help Asgard (that calls back to the first MCU Hulk movie) but it's a joke. Thor and Loki never seemed to be taking it seriously that a genocidal tyrant was ruling their home with an iron fist, because Waititi wanted them to be quippy. Asgard is obliterated while the refugees look on, and Waititi decided that was the place to slip in some Korg humor, etc.
One of my favorite small touches in any blockbuster is when Nebula breaks into a few tears when she finds out Rocket is okay over the intercom in Vol. 3.
Easily my favorite moment in Vol. 3. I choke up a little everytime I watch it. It's easy to forget that Nebula and Rocket were the only family the other had for 5 years, and I was so glad to see Gunn implement that in the holiday special and third film. For someone as hardened and angry as Nebula, those little moments go a long way towards showing that she really does consider the Guardians her family now. Karen Gillan's acting in that scene is great
Mantis also says that they’re happy to know Rocket is OK and that they love him, but is looking at Nebula when she says it. After their conflict in the film Mantis was able to say what Nebula wanted to say to Rocket and is basically speaking for her. The interplay between the characters is so damn good in GOTG3.
8:16 There's a fun fan theory that I'm quite fond of with regards to this issue: i.e., Thanos didn't actually love Gamora, but he loved his view of himself as her savior and father. And in order to get the Soul Stone, he had to give up this view of himself (i.e., the thing he actually loved most in the universe) by killing her.
@@RamblingSailors Why wouldn't it? "Love" is an illusion anyway. Even if he did "love Gamora", it's still a contrived, idealized version of Gamora that he loves. By killing Gamora he is only either killing "the idea of Gamora" or "his idea of himself as Gamora's savior and father", since it is a mental construct in either case.
Oh I like this. I had a simpler version in my head which is that you have to believe you're sacrificing something you love rather than there being some objective truth to what love actually is but this is more in depth and I love it!
I always kind of enjoyed that idea that he genuinely loved her, because it drives home that being able to love doesn’t somehow magically make it so you can’t also be a monster. In his case it makes him even more of a monster, because he spent her entire life abusing her and then fucking killed her to further his own ambitions. People like to pretend that they’re somehow fundamentally different from people who perform monstrous acts. That they’d never do that, but we’re all human, we’re all capable of evil shit. That wasn’t, like, a moment showing he’s not that bad, that was a moment that shows he’s even worse. He’s not a sociopath unable to care about others and he’s still doing this shit.
Thank you for a fantastic video. Nebula wasn't anyone's Hollywood pitch. A grim supporting villain in inexpressive face makeup, not even abs or cleavage. But Karen Gillan is an absolute prize and one thing the MCU and James Gunn both do well is letting the actors elevate the material. Nebula made sense as an ongoing hero with an ongoing arc and the movies delivered. And only once had to stoop to anyone noticing her robot eyes were pretty.
Here to mention Nebula's relationship with rocket is super special, even though so much of it was off screen. They only had each other for 5 years. The character moments they get together are easy to overlook, but beautiful.
Both held each other's hand at the beginning of Endgame, which reminded me that the Guardians of the Galaxy were erased, plus one (Gamora) killed before by The Mad Titan. That hurt. 😔
MCU is full of sibling relationships but Gamora's and Nebula's has always been my favourite and Nebula's redemption arc is probably the best one in fiction. The way she goes from someone who would rather cut off her own hand than take the one extended to her to being someone who would sacrifice anything to save others is just beautiful. And the fact that this redemption arc doesn't end with death but with happy ending means everything.
YES. Her redemption arc is the greatest, and it's very important that she gets to live the happy ending she deserves. Too many times we see the villain be redeemed, only to be immediately killed off.
Nebula silently finding a healthy father figure in Tony Stark while being stranded in space was something I never expected, but one of the best and most wholesome unexpected things that stick with me after all the MCU greats. Part of me imagines she would be a cool older sister to Morgan who visits Earth every now and then with some interesting space stuff in tow.
I love Nebula and the only thing missing from her arc is being able to off Thanos instead of Tony. Her joy in playing paper football... I smile when she smiles. It's so wholesome.
I think Tony being the one to kill Thanos makes sense. imo it would have been more fitting for Nebula and past Gamora to lead the charge with all the female Avengers, since it not only gives payoff to past Gamora joining with Nebula, but it also works thematically for the two to play a major part in Thanos's defeat It would also be a callback to the paper football scene at the beginning of the movie (since that entire battle is basically just a massive game of Football, if you really think about it)
You forgot something In guardians 3 rocket is pretty much her brother. For 5 years it was just her and him as the guardians. Hell all those upgrades she got are from him. The guardians are a found family but those two are the closest of the bunch. This really matters as 1. She understands rockets pain both physically and mentally And 2. When he almost dies it’s like losing her sister all over again
As an aside, Nebula's story (among others) is one I've used to help people understand why it's so hard to leave/escape abusive dynamics. The "programming" was so strong in her. I know what that's like. You know it's bad, but your captor (abuser, father, husband, wife, mother) makes you believe one of a million things that keeps you from leaving ❤
My Nebula moment was in GOTG2 During her battle with Gamora inside Ego... "ALL I EVER WANTED WAS A SISTER..." After that moment...she seemed more human.
karen gillian as nebula was one of the few mcu characters where i noticed the acting was superb. so excited she can go do other stuff now, especially with the satisfying ending of gotg3
Part of me wishes there was more MCU content set during the five years of the blip. During that time, Rocket was the only surviving friend that Nebula had. It’s not like the two of them were particularly close before the blip, but when they reunite in the beginning of Endgame it’s pretty touching. Each of them was the only family that the other had at that point. I’d like to know more about how those two bonded during that time.
Now that Gunn is done with MCU and GOTG, I’m gonna miss all the characters from GOTG. They felt more real than literally every other character in every other MCU series. One exception is Killmonger
It's wild to have this background (upgraded eventually to main) character's story laid out chronologically. she really earned every inch of her bitterness. But somehow she made her way through it.
Nebula's story arc is one that gradually returns her empathy, compassion, and (for lack of a better term because she is an alien), her humanity. She gains that through exposure to the Guardians of the Galaxy, coming to see the notion of FAMILY as something to be nurtured and adopted, and not the horrific, abusive, and maligned concept that Thanos fostered among his "children." Quill, Gamorra, Drax, Rocket, Groot, and Mantis showed her that sharing bonds between them not only gave their lives purpose and direction, but also made them more powerful than most deities and gods of the universe, when they fought to preserve life and communities. Nebula then encounters the concept of sacrifice and dignity when she's left alone with Tony Stark, as she witnesses Dr. Strange make a bargain with Thanos to spare his life, and then Tony doing everything in his power to return to Earth. There, she's reunited with Rocket, and after the Avengers failed initially to retrieve the infinity stones from her genocidal father, she embraces a role as a defender and protector of the remaining life on other planets. We don't see what she and Rocket witnessed or endured during that time, but that time spent among survivors trying to make sense of a life after their loved ones and communities were decimated must have left a profound impact on her, especially as she must have been struggling with her own grief and remorse after losing Gamorra and her own circle of friends. Furthermore, to be partnered with Rocket, a creature with his own hang-ups about his creator and life purpose, significantly solidified their relationship as two misfit toys trying to make their way through life. After Endgame, Nebula's motivations of rage and revenge are replaced with a desire for connections. To see her standing stoically at Tony's funeral on the brink of tears was a sight to behold, because it was about more than just the 2 of them surviving in deep space playing paper football. He had treated her as an equal, and a teammate, and had relied on her to survive for as long as he did before being rescued. Once she joined the Guardians full time, Nebula carried on with their commitment to preserving life and ending conflict, still barking orders and viciously attacking opponents, but never veered into destructive habits again. I think my favorite moments in her arc came in the Christmas special when she gifts Rocket with a Winter Soldier arm, and the culmination of her character development when she stands up to Gamorra in GOTG Vol 3. In that critical scene, past Gamorra (who hasn't experienced that same relationship history with the Guardians) is refusing to seek out the High Evolutionary, thinking that they would be outmatched in an obvious suicide mission, so she wants to abandon course, and Nebula refuses. Nebula sees there's no time to waste as Rocket is dying on an operating table, and taking Gamorra back to the Ravagers would take up precious time, so she rejects that plan and confronts her sister. Gamorra is indignant at being told no by her sister, and tries to leverage her familial relationship to Nebula as more important than that of Rocket's ("I'm family!"), to which Nebula replies, "so is he." There is no greater purpose for her in that movie than to save the life of someone she has chosen to be her "family." She has finally found companionship and trust and love with a group of outsiders who know what a sadist and monster she once was, and allowed her to evolve and grow, finding her empathy and humanity and renouncing the homicidal way of thinking that was beaten into her by Thanos. I know she hasn't been a core character to the MCU, but, to me, Nebula is one of the most compelling and relatable heroes of the Marvel films.
I really liked this video because trying to keep track of one character's development over multiple movies is hard. I saw most of the movies, but I just couldn't track what was going on with Nebula. Thank you for retelling this story in a straightforward manner
All of the guardians movies explored many very complex dynamics of family. Sibling relationships, abandonment, found family, abuse, loss, etc. Thank you so much to GoTG for infusing color back into the MCU as well as heart ❤
@@islandvideoviewer my answer would be way too long for this thread. His story is unparalleled. Grace Randolf choked up just talking about it, for good reason.
Note: in Infinity war Thanos obtains three infinity gems by promising not killing someone. Thor for the space Stone, Nebula for the soul stone and Ironman for the time stone. After the snap, these 3 are still alive.
Nebula is a fascinating and sympathetic character, but also can be highly frustrating to watch. As raw a deal as she got in life, she often made her own situation worse through horrendous decision making and conflicting motives. This made for a complex character (one of the most complex in the MCU), but one that came with a healthy dose of "WHAT THE F$%^, LADY?!?!"
Speaking from a lot of personal experience, that’s super realistic. The thing is, the raw deal you get served in life often teaches you incredibly maladaptive coping mechanisms. So yeah, if you get a shit deal, you’re more likely to then go on to make it worse. Ain’t life grand.
@@VetinariClone Everyone has to eat a pound of dirt in their life, the trick is to avoid eating it all at the same time or vomiting it onto others. No one really chooses what happens to them, or what others do to them, but it's up to the individual to make the best choices possible if and when they get the opportunity. Nebula had many such opportunities, but she let her anger get the best of her more often than not. Seems she got it right at the end of the day, but she could've done so much sooner.
MCU movies (or current superheroe movies in general) tend to be populated by one kind of family relationship only -- parent-child. And that makes sense on some level, because for most of us no one has had a greater impact on us than our parents, and we will never have a greater impact on anyone than on our children. Done well, a parent-child storyline can be fascinating (Tony & Howard Stark, Peter & Ego, Thor/Loki & Odin/Frigga) or it can be the culmination of an important character arc (Tony finally becoming a father, the Guardians collectively becoming parents of Baby Groot, Drax the Destroyer becoming Drax the Dad). Sister relationships tend to get a lot less screentime. Nebula and Gomorra's relationship is so moving and heartbreaking and beautiful. Thank you for this video! I really enjoyed it. ❤
One thing I liked in GOTG 3 is how she’s the first one to tell Peter about all the children aboard the ship and insists they can’t leave without saving them. Remember that in GOTG 2 she suggests leaving without Peter. I really like how it just has that happen without drawing a lot of attention to it
The paper football scene with Nebula and Tony, is I think my fave scene in all the MCU matched with when Killmonger goes back to meet his father during the ritual to become Black Panther. Now excuse me while I go cry for 3 hours (but in a good way?)
I saw Nando speculate that it the script might have originally had Nebula running the gauntlet in End Game during the Girl Boss montage instead of Captain Marvel. It would make sense for her character thematically, to finally have this confrontation on screen. She also wields the gauntlet in the comics too. Plus they did the whole paper football thing at the start of the movie and that scene is quite similar to football when think about it. Having her there right at the end for the final moment with Tony would have meant more given the time they spent together. I would have preferred to see that over Captain Marvel getting smacked with the power stone.
Thanos in the comics has a "better" reason for killing half of the universe: he's in love with Death and wants to send her a bunch of people. She doesn't love him back. It makes him angry. Also, I guess she DOES love Deadpool!
Nebula also goes to show what, in my opinion, the most important part of a redemption arc is: *Time*. This was a character arc that played out over years, not minutes. We got to truly know Nebula both before and during her growth; we got to learn exactly why needs to be redeemed, and the trauma she carried that prevented that from happening. And when she did begin to turn to the side of good, it wasn't instantaneous; first, she had to reconcile with Gamora. Second, she had to try to kill Thanos, only to lose her chance. Third, she had to find new purpose in a world without Thanos. And finally, she overcame her inner demons during the events of Endgame. No last minute redemptions in a single line of dialogue from one of the good guys. Her arc was slow, and patient, and that's what made it so great.
She never had an arc, she had layers that we opened every movie, bit by bit realizing that she wasn't who we thought she was.......an arc is a journey that a character takes, learning from their experiences and changing with them A character starts one way, then end in other way because of the experiences they went through, thats an arc.....A character starts one way, then we realize that character wasn't like that to begin with, thats layering Tony and Steve are the best examples of arcs......Nebula and Rocket are the best example of a layered characters, and thats why we love Guardians so much, they are layered characters and every time we meet them we learn something new about them Nebula wasn't redeemed......we never knew the real Nebula, her character was always influenced by others
So happy the algo introduced you to me with this essay. Great job with the execution. Your work is lovely and I'm looking forward to binging your channel!
I feel like GOTG2 was what really made me love Nebula as a character, and whike the 3rd movie was amazing, the second one will always stand out to me for truly getting me invested in all the character's family dynamic. While I have a great relationship with my older sister, its hard not to see us in Gamora and Nebula's relationship and I always bawl my eyes out every single time I watch GOTG2.
I’m still new to the channel, but I’m I’ve ❤ your explanations and basic, easy delivery. I’m a comic fan already but I just can’t help watching others opinion or explanation in case I miss something
After Gusrdians 3, Nebula is one of my favorite MCU characters. I'm gonna rewatch Endgame now, too. Also, I've seen you in the Dungeon Dudes comments, I personally wouldn't mind hearing some D&D media analysis from you!
In hindsight I think the one thing I wish the markus & mcfeely had done is write a scene where Tony asks thanos “why not use the stones to make more?” And have thanos just outright say “I prefer the death”
I would have preferred they wrote a scene where Tony asks Thanos “why not use the stones to make more?” and have Thanos just outright say " "Because then people wouldn't learn the lesson". THAT is the mistake in Infinity War. Once he snapped his fingers he went away. If he made sure that those remaining knew they had a second chance and they should use the resources more efficiently then that could have been a good thing. Instead people like yourself want to reward everyone for wasting resources.
I'm glad she survived the snap because she gained so much humanity over those five years, being away from Thanos and even Gamora who always reminded her of her awful past, even if they did reconcile. It let her become herself and realize she could be the hero. She's one of the best characters in the MCU in my opinion.
"you were the one who wanted to win and I just wanted a sister" is probably my favourite line in the whole MCU ! The 2 other contenders being "I do anything and everything that mister Stark requires... Including, occasionaly, taking out the trash" (Iron man 2) and "I'm in the middle of an interrogation, this moron is giving me everything" [and the look she gives him afterward] (the avengers).
I feel like there was a lot more that occurred in guardians of the galaxy 3 that internally challenges Nebula over the course of that adventure to reflect on life and come to the decision of raising the kids that they rescued.
My favorite Nebula moment is in GoG3 when Kraglin accidentally shoots her with Yondu's arrow. She barely responds when an eyeroll and its a testament to how much she's grown to care about and tolerate her stupid, stupid companions.
Agreed, nice vid bro. I was originally disappointed that post Endgame Nebula wasn't more 'open', but redemption doesn't need to completely change a person's character. At the end of the day she's still Nebula, she didn't need a goofy Thor type change to be fully redeemed.
Great video. Nebula had become my favorite MCU character after guardians 2 although personally after G3 I'm drinking the Rocket kool-aid pretty hard. But that all that did was make me love the shot of Rock and Neb quietly holding each others hands in the beginning of Endgame even more. Border lining on thoughts of "this would make a good tattoo". I think they're tied for my favorite characters and arcs now :)
I thought her arc in Endgame was cut short a bit. She deserved a final confrontation with Thanos, maybe even stealing the gauntlet from him like in the book. I love what James Gunn has done with her since, however. Also Karen Gillan.
Thank you so much for making this video. Nebula is my favorite character in the MCU and her arc throughout all the movies is masterfully done in my opinion.
Awh man, I just found this channel with this video (which is amazing work by the way( and I was happy when you said that if I like videos like this about MCU that there were none. I just wish their were yours and not Nando's or someone elee.. But even though your videos probably focus on shows or things that I am not too interested, i will be rewarding you s subscription anywsy
I had a different take on Nebula's reaction at Thanos's execution. I do not think she felt sad because he was the only father she knew. I think she felt sad that he was the only one she knew who claimed to be her father, while never having had behaved as such, and mourning the part of her life that had been wasted trying to impress him.
In a universe full of whizzes and flash booms it’s pretty unusual to have a character arc carry through this clearly. The writing is great ofc but Karen Gillian really nailed the role and was the hero we really needed in this whole mess. I didn’t catch the reason she wanted to raise the kids on my first viewing so what she did makes a lot more sense now.
![The Sympathetic Strawman - How Marvel Accidentally Created One of the Best MCU Characters [reupload]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SalgNl0Nnvs/mqdefault.jpg)
I should have spent more time on Nebula's arc in Guardians 3 in retrospect. Maybe one day I will remake this video.
If you want to, that would be dope. She's great in Vol. 3 but often gets overlooked because of all the other awesome stuff going on in that movie xD
I know time travel/multiverse stuff is kinda overplayed rn, but seeing Nebula off her past self to protect her sister was a heavy scene
100% I don't see it as an alegory of moving away from past demons though, because the other nebula was still a being, one that is now dead. A little extreme to kill someone to reflect personal growth, lol.
I didn't take it as JUST a reflection on personal growth tbh. I took it as a deliberately unsettling scene about personal growth AND the fact that death/happenstance can come for you before you had a decwnt shot at Personal Growth and that just...is what it is. It was just utterly tragic.
Like, I even have memories of this scene feeling a little out of place or thrown-togwther or just...not very dramatised within the movie? That might just be my memory. That might might be something that happened in the editing of Endgame. But it also might just be what the scene was about: sometimes shit just happens to you (the second Gamorra) and sometimes even the people who have the most possible sympathy in the world for you and your story see that, but they still gotta do what they gotta do. It is what it is. It do be like that.
It was bad writing. If older you kills younger you would you not fade away ? So when older Nebula kills younger Nebula and she didn't fade away that means younger Thanos Nebula and Gamora were from another universe. So in that universe Drax dosnt join the guardians of the galaxy because there is no Thanos to get revenge on . Nebula dosnt join she is dead and Gamora dosnt she is trapped in ours . So ego the living Plant destroys all life in the universe since the guardians of the galaxy are too weak to stop him . This means spider man black panther and his people captain marvel Dr strange antman and all the avengers are villains . They saved half the life in our universe but killed all life in another. Bad writing
@@unholywarrior9007all that depends on how you think about time travel theory. Though maybe other MCU movies already established some framework
Strange how James Gunn is considered to have “made Marvel just funny all the time”, yet his films are the some of the darkest movies in the MCU. Literally all of his main villains commit genocide.
True. And if the jokes are funny and don’t take away from the tension, I’m fine with it. Guardians trilogy, Infinity War/Endgame worked for me for the same reasons why the Ant-man movies and Thor L&T don’t. Prioritizing comedy when the jokes have a poor batting average (imo) is a bummer.
@@CrowTRobot the first Ant-Man movie was good (possibly because they still had Edgar Wright’s script), but the trilogy got worse with every installment.
@@CrowTRobot Thor L&T is Ragnarok 2.0 - Saying the humor in one worked but didn't in the other is a weird take. Funny it's the same opinion repeated all over the internet
@@ikptsHave to disagree with this, the jokes in Ragnarok were legitimately funny (Hulk jumping out of a ship to flop on the bridge) and also did not detract from the plot. The screaming goats meanwhile were the opposite of this. Even Korg is funny and charming in Ragnarok, while dull and obnoxious in L&T 🤷
@@MichaelChelen The jokes in Ragnarok might be funnier, but they still noticeably detract from the plot. Thor spends nearly the entire movie out of character. Banner spends his screen time up to his jump concerned that Hulk won't ever let him return if he takes over again. He's making a sacrifice to help Asgard (that calls back to the first MCU Hulk movie) but it's a joke. Thor and Loki never seemed to be taking it seriously that a genocidal tyrant was ruling their home with an iron fist, because Waititi wanted them to be quippy. Asgard is obliterated while the refugees look on, and Waititi decided that was the place to slip in some Korg humor, etc.
One of my favorite small touches in any blockbuster is when Nebula breaks into a few tears when she finds out Rocket is okay over the intercom in Vol. 3.
Easily my favorite moment in Vol. 3. I choke up a little everytime I watch it. It's easy to forget that Nebula and Rocket were the only family the other had for 5 years, and I was so glad to see Gunn implement that in the holiday special and third film. For someone as hardened and angry as Nebula, those little moments go a long way towards showing that she really does consider the Guardians her family now. Karen Gillan's acting in that scene is great
I would say that it made me cry, but I had already been bawling me eyes out for at least 10 minutes at that point
Mantis also says that they’re happy to know Rocket is OK and that they love him, but is looking at Nebula when she says it. After their conflict in the film Mantis was able to say what Nebula wanted to say to Rocket and is basically speaking for her. The interplay between the characters is so damn good in GOTG3.
Makes sense cause they've had a longer time together than Rocket had with the guardians so of course those two are closer
"You were the one who wanted to win and I JUST WANTED A SISTER!" Goddamn what a gut punch. I'm tearing up just writing this.
8:16
There's a fun fan theory that I'm quite fond of with regards to this issue: i.e., Thanos didn't actually love Gamora, but he loved his view of himself as her savior and father. And in order to get the Soul Stone, he had to give up this view of himself (i.e., the thing he actually loved most in the universe) by killing her.
If that were true, killing Gamora wouldn't have worked, would it?
@@RamblingSailors Why wouldn't it? "Love" is an illusion anyway. Even if he did "love Gamora", it's still a contrived, idealized version of Gamora that he loves. By killing Gamora he is only either killing "the idea of Gamora" or "his idea of himself as Gamora's savior and father", since it is a mental construct in either case.
Oh I like this. I had a simpler version in my head which is that you have to believe you're sacrificing something you love rather than there being some objective truth to what love actually is but this is more in depth and I love it!
I always kind of enjoyed that idea that he genuinely loved her, because it drives home that being able to love doesn’t somehow magically make it so you can’t also be a monster. In his case it makes him even more of a monster, because he spent her entire life abusing her and then fucking killed her to further his own ambitions.
People like to pretend that they’re somehow fundamentally different from people who perform monstrous acts. That they’d never do that, but we’re all human, we’re all capable of evil shit.
That wasn’t, like, a moment showing he’s not that bad, that was a moment that shows he’s even worse. He’s not a sociopath unable to care about others and he’s still doing this shit.
@@VetinariClone I love the way you phrased this, I 100% agree
Karen Gillan is so good in this role. Best thing in the whole MCU.
Her reaction when she gets the news about Rocket in Guardians 3 hit me unexpectedly.
Her stealing Bucky's arm for Rocket is my favorite callback in the whole MCU.
I've realized I genuinely love Nebula, she's one of my favorite MCU characters.
Thank you for a fantastic video. Nebula wasn't anyone's Hollywood pitch. A grim supporting villain in inexpressive face makeup, not even abs or cleavage. But Karen Gillan is an absolute prize and one thing the MCU and James Gunn both do well is letting the actors elevate the material. Nebula made sense as an ongoing hero with an ongoing arc and the movies delivered. And only once had to stoop to anyone noticing her robot eyes were pretty.
Agreed! Karen Gillan's portrayal of Nebula just showcases an amazing talent and ability to understand the core of the character.
Remember how man children got mad that she had a small chest and that her boobs weren't bouncing boobily when they saw the character posters? Sad
Here to mention Nebula's relationship with rocket is super special, even though so much of it was off screen. They only had each other for 5 years. The character moments they get together are easy to overlook, but beautiful.
Both held each other's hand at the beginning of Endgame, which reminded me that the Guardians of the Galaxy were erased, plus one (Gamora) killed before by The Mad Titan. That hurt. 😔
MCU is full of sibling relationships but Gamora's and Nebula's has always been my favourite and Nebula's redemption arc is probably the best one in fiction. The way she goes from someone who would rather cut off her own hand than take the one extended to her to being someone who would sacrifice anything to save others is just beautiful. And the fact that this redemption arc doesn't end with death but with happy ending means everything.
YES. Her redemption arc is the greatest, and it's very important that she gets to live the happy ending she deserves. Too many times we see the villain be redeemed, only to be immediately killed off.
The last scene in Guardians 3 where she's finally happy dancing to “Dog Days are Over” is just perfection
Nebula silently finding a healthy father figure in Tony Stark while being stranded in space was something I never expected, but one of the best and most wholesome unexpected things that stick with me after all the MCU greats. Part of me imagines she would be a cool older sister to Morgan who visits Earth every now and then with some interesting space stuff in tow.
I love Nebula and the only thing missing from her arc is being able to off Thanos instead of Tony.
Her joy in playing paper football... I smile when she smiles. It's so wholesome.
An absolute BRILLIANT scene that stays in my head rent free! Such an amazing performance by Gillan, it may be my favourite scene in the whole MCU.
I would love if past Nebula did join the avengers in the fight and was the one to use the stones against Thanos.
Tony killing Thanos is right as it is. But when Carol confronted Thanos? Right before Tony stole the Stones? That should've been Nebula in her place.
I think Tony being the one to kill Thanos makes sense. imo it would have been more fitting for Nebula and past Gamora to lead the charge with all the female Avengers, since it not only gives payoff to past Gamora joining with Nebula, but it also works thematically for the two to play a major part in Thanos's defeat
It would also be a callback to the paper football scene at the beginning of the movie (since that entire battle is basically just a massive game of Football, if you really think about it)
Her "I would like to try again" in that scene always makes my heart swell. ❤
You forgot something In guardians 3 rocket is pretty much her brother. For 5 years it was just her and him as the guardians. Hell all those upgrades she got are from him.
The guardians are a found family but those two are the closest of the bunch. This really matters as
1. She understands rockets pain both physically and mentally
And
2. When he almost dies it’s like losing her sister all over again
“You always wanted to win, I just wanted a sister” gets me every time 🥺
As an aside, Nebula's story (among others) is one I've used to help people understand why it's so hard to leave/escape abusive dynamics.
The "programming" was so strong in her. I know what that's like. You know it's bad, but your captor (abuser, father, husband, wife, mother) makes you believe one of a million things that keeps you from leaving ❤
Glad to see someone talk about Nebula, one of my favorite MCU characters. She is genuinely underrated.
That fight betwen Nebula & Gamora still tears me up. She is definitely a character elevated by the MCU.
The paper football scene made me cry more than any other scene in Endgame
I know what you mean. It may be my favourite scene in the whole MCU
My Nebula moment was in GOTG2
During her battle with Gamora inside Ego...
"ALL I EVER WANTED WAS A SISTER..."
After that moment...she seemed more human.
Nebula's story arch is my absolute favorite. Seeing her so happy at the end of GoTG 3, brought tears to my eyes.
Same
You weren't already crying?
Multiple times. I knew I'd need tissues for this one from the trailer.@@gaffer2602
OMG, that victory yell as she threw her arm in the air during that awesome dance party was SO cathartic. ❤❤❤
Agreed! I understood what that victory yell was about!😢
karen gillian as nebula was one of the few mcu characters where i noticed the acting was superb. so excited she can go do other stuff now, especially with the satisfying ending of gotg3
as someone with an abusive parent its really inspiring to see myself in nebula, it gives me hope
Part of me wishes there was more MCU content set during the five years of the blip. During that time, Rocket was the only surviving friend that Nebula had. It’s not like the two of them were particularly close before the blip, but when they reunite in the beginning of Endgame it’s pretty touching. Each of them was the only family that the other had at that point. I’d like to know more about how those two bonded during that time.
Now that Gunn is done with MCU and GOTG, I’m gonna miss all the characters from GOTG. They felt more real than literally every other character in every other MCU series. One exception is Killmonger
So true!
It's wild to have this background (upgraded eventually to main) character's story laid out chronologically. she really earned every inch of her bitterness. But somehow she made her way through it.
I’m going to send this video to then next person who tries to tell me that Thanos is super sympathetic/a good guy.
Nebula's story arc is one that gradually returns her empathy, compassion, and (for lack of a better term because she is an alien), her humanity. She gains that through exposure to the Guardians of the Galaxy, coming to see the notion of FAMILY as something to be nurtured and adopted, and not the horrific, abusive, and maligned concept that Thanos fostered among his "children." Quill, Gamorra, Drax, Rocket, Groot, and Mantis showed her that sharing bonds between them not only gave their lives purpose and direction, but also made them more powerful than most deities and gods of the universe, when they fought to preserve life and communities.
Nebula then encounters the concept of sacrifice and dignity when she's left alone with Tony Stark, as she witnesses Dr. Strange make a bargain with Thanos to spare his life, and then Tony doing everything in his power to return to Earth. There, she's reunited with Rocket, and after the Avengers failed initially to retrieve the infinity stones from her genocidal father, she embraces a role as a defender and protector of the remaining life on other planets. We don't see what she and Rocket witnessed or endured during that time, but that time spent among survivors trying to make sense of a life after their loved ones and communities were decimated must have left a profound impact on her, especially as she must have been struggling with her own grief and remorse after losing Gamorra and her own circle of friends. Furthermore, to be partnered with Rocket, a creature with his own hang-ups about his creator and life purpose, significantly solidified their relationship as two misfit toys trying to make their way through life.
After Endgame, Nebula's motivations of rage and revenge are replaced with a desire for connections. To see her standing stoically at Tony's funeral on the brink of tears was a sight to behold, because it was about more than just the 2 of them surviving in deep space playing paper football. He had treated her as an equal, and a teammate, and had relied on her to survive for as long as he did before being rescued. Once she joined the Guardians full time, Nebula carried on with their commitment to preserving life and ending conflict, still barking orders and viciously attacking opponents, but never veered into destructive habits again.
I think my favorite moments in her arc came in the Christmas special when she gifts Rocket with a Winter Soldier arm, and the culmination of her character development when she stands up to Gamorra in GOTG Vol 3. In that critical scene, past Gamorra (who hasn't experienced that same relationship history with the Guardians) is refusing to seek out the High Evolutionary, thinking that they would be outmatched in an obvious suicide mission, so she wants to abandon course, and Nebula refuses. Nebula sees there's no time to waste as Rocket is dying on an operating table, and taking Gamorra back to the Ravagers would take up precious time, so she rejects that plan and confronts her sister. Gamorra is indignant at being told no by her sister, and tries to leverage her familial relationship to Nebula as more important than that of Rocket's ("I'm family!"), to which Nebula replies, "so is he." There is no greater purpose for her in that movie than to save the life of someone she has chosen to be her "family." She has finally found companionship and trust and love with a group of outsiders who know what a sadist and monster she once was, and allowed her to evolve and grow, finding her empathy and humanity and renouncing the homicidal way of thinking that was beaten into her by Thanos. I know she hasn't been a core character to the MCU, but, to me, Nebula is one of the most compelling and relatable heroes of the Marvel films.
I really liked this video because trying to keep track of one character's development over multiple movies is hard. I saw most of the movies, but I just couldn't track what was going on with Nebula. Thank you for retelling this story in a straightforward manner
I love how it was a slow process rather than BOOM good guy now
All of the guardians movies explored many very complex dynamics of family. Sibling relationships, abandonment, found family, abuse, loss, etc. Thank you so much to GoTG for infusing color back into the MCU as well as heart ❤
Next to Steve’s story (the best) and Tony’s ( the most important) Nebula’s story is the most tragic and beautiful.
How is Steve's story the best?
@@islandvideoviewer my answer would be way too long for this thread. His story is unparalleled. Grace Randolf choked up just talking about it, for good reason.
I mean, Nebula goes through an unimaginable amount of trauma, but at least she gets a happy ending? I guess it could be worse.
Nebula has one of the best redemption arcs in the MCU.
Nebula has been my favorite MCU character because of Karen Gillian’s acting. Thanks for the presentation
Note: in Infinity war Thanos obtains three infinity gems by promising not killing someone. Thor for the space Stone, Nebula for the soul stone and Ironman for the time stone. After the snap, these 3 are still alive.
Nebula is a fascinating and sympathetic character, but also can be highly frustrating to watch. As raw a deal as she got in life, she often made her own situation worse through horrendous decision making and conflicting motives.
This made for a complex character (one of the most complex in the MCU), but one that came with a healthy dose of "WHAT THE F$%^, LADY?!?!"
Speaking from a lot of personal experience, that’s super realistic. The thing is, the raw deal you get served in life often teaches you incredibly maladaptive coping mechanisms. So yeah, if you get a shit deal, you’re more likely to then go on to make it worse. Ain’t life grand.
@@VetinariClone Everyone has to eat a pound of dirt in their life, the trick is to avoid eating it all at the same time or vomiting it onto others. No one really chooses what happens to them, or what others do to them, but it's up to the individual to make the best choices possible if and when they get the opportunity. Nebula had many such opportunities, but she let her anger get the best of her more often than not. Seems she got it right at the end of the day, but she could've done so much sooner.
Great video! Wanda can give her a run for her money when it comes to saddest character arc as well.
MCU movies (or current superheroe movies in general) tend to be populated by one kind of family relationship only -- parent-child. And that makes sense on some level, because for most of us no one has had a greater impact on us than our parents, and we will never have a greater impact on anyone than on our children. Done well, a parent-child storyline can be fascinating (Tony & Howard Stark, Peter & Ego, Thor/Loki & Odin/Frigga) or it can be the culmination of an important character arc (Tony finally becoming a father, the Guardians collectively becoming parents of Baby Groot, Drax the Destroyer becoming Drax the Dad).
Sister relationships tend to get a lot less screentime. Nebula and Gomorra's relationship is so moving and heartbreaking and beautiful. Thank you for this video! I really enjoyed it. ❤
One thing I liked in GOTG 3 is how she’s the first one to tell Peter about all the children aboard the ship and insists they can’t leave without saving them. Remember that in GOTG 2 she suggests leaving without Peter. I really like how it just has that happen without drawing a lot of attention to it
She's one of my favorites. I love her arc, and I'm happy with how she landed in GOTG 3.
That *"follow me"* always gives me a smile
The paper football scene with Nebula and Tony, is I think my fave scene in all the MCU matched with when Killmonger goes back to meet his father during the ritual to become Black Panther. Now excuse me while I go cry for 3 hours (but in a good way?)
She's my favorite MCU character and I'm so sad that we might not see her again in any meaningful capacity.
Did you design ActualJake's channel overlay??
@@ranbummerz729 I did!
Even better if we don't see her again ever. MCU is garbage now, they'll just ruin her.
I almost cried in the theatre when Nebula started dancing at the end of guardians 3
I had to pause this video after 8 seconds. I'll be back after I rewatch a bit, this is going to be an emotional one.
I saw Nando speculate that it the script might have originally had Nebula running the gauntlet in End Game during the Girl Boss montage instead of Captain Marvel. It would make sense for her character thematically, to finally have this confrontation on screen. She also wields the gauntlet in the comics too. Plus they did the whole paper football thing at the start of the movie and that scene is quite similar to football when think about it. Having her there right at the end for the final moment with Tony would have meant more given the time they spent together. I would have preferred to see that over Captain Marvel getting smacked with the power stone.
"Admin power over the universe" is the best way I've heard holding all six stones described ever lol
Thanos in the comics has a "better" reason for killing half of the universe: he's in love with Death and wants to send her a bunch of people. She doesn't love him back. It makes him angry.
Also, I guess she DOES love Deadpool!
Nebula also goes to show what, in my opinion, the most important part of a redemption arc is: *Time*.
This was a character arc that played out over years, not minutes. We got to truly know Nebula both before and during her growth; we got to learn exactly why needs to be redeemed, and the trauma she carried that prevented that from happening. And when she did begin to turn to the side of good, it wasn't instantaneous; first, she had to reconcile with Gamora. Second, she had to try to kill Thanos, only to lose her chance. Third, she had to find new purpose in a world without Thanos. And finally, she overcame her inner demons during the events of Endgame. No last minute redemptions in a single line of dialogue from one of the good guys. Her arc was slow, and patient, and that's what made it so great.
I was fascinated by Nebula since I was a kid, but I had only had a trading card with her on it for like 25 years
Nebula is one of my favourite MCU characters. I met Karen Gillan in 2015.
She’s one of the best characters
A Nebula analysis was one hundred percent necessary, she’s one of the better characters in the MCU
Just watched guardians 3, very happy to come back to this video
Gamora and Nebula’s arc in gotg2 is my favorite in the mcu, it makes me cry bc it’s just so relatable. Gotg2 is the most underrated mcu movie.
She never had an arc, she had layers that we opened every movie, bit by bit realizing that she wasn't who we thought she was.......an arc is a journey that a character takes, learning from their experiences and changing with them
A character starts one way, then end in other way because of the experiences they went through, thats an arc.....A character starts one way, then we realize that character wasn't like that to begin with, thats layering
Tony and Steve are the best examples of arcs......Nebula and Rocket are the best example of a layered characters, and thats why we love Guardians so much, they are layered characters and every time we meet them we learn something new about them
Nebula wasn't redeemed......we never knew the real Nebula, her character was always influenced by others
Great vid. Feels good to think happy on the MCU for a bit.
Fantastic overview. Nicely put together
So happy the algo introduced you to me with this essay. Great job with the execution. Your work is lovely and I'm looking forward to binging your channel!
I feel like GOTG2 was what really made me love Nebula as a character, and whike the 3rd movie was amazing, the second one will always stand out to me for truly getting me invested in all the character's family dynamic. While I have a great relationship with my older sister, its hard not to see us in Gamora and Nebula's relationship and I always bawl my eyes out every single time I watch GOTG2.
This just made me wanna watch this whole series again
I’m still new to the channel, but I’m I’ve ❤ your explanations and basic, easy delivery. I’m a comic fan already but I just can’t help watching others opinion or explanation in case I miss something
Also Nebula and Tony playing paper football was very endearing to me and I love that scene.
GOTG 3 made Nebula my favorite MCU character. I liked her okay before, but the third movie truly elevated her.
After Gusrdians 3, Nebula is one of my favorite MCU characters. I'm gonna rewatch Endgame now, too.
Also, I've seen you in the Dungeon Dudes comments, I personally wouldn't mind hearing some D&D media analysis from you!
she is my favorite mcu character. I'm so happy someone is finally talking about her.
16:49 This line breaks my heart every time I watch this movie.
I would like to see more media and story analysis from you. This is good stuff
“If you collect all 6 you essentially get ADMIN powers over the universe”. That cracked me up 🤣
In hindsight I think the one thing I wish the markus & mcfeely had done is write a scene where Tony asks thanos “why not use the stones to make more?” And have thanos just outright say “I prefer the death”
I would have preferred they wrote a scene where Tony asks Thanos “why not use the stones to make more?” and have Thanos just outright say " "Because then people wouldn't learn the lesson". THAT is the mistake in Infinity War. Once he snapped his fingers he went away. If he made sure that those remaining knew they had a second chance and they should use the resources more efficiently then that could have been a good thing. Instead people like yourself want to reward everyone for wasting resources.
@@claytoncourtney1309god save me from teenagers whose ethics consist entirely of whatever sounds coolest in their heads.
Love your show and film breakdowns ❤
Thanks!
I'm glad she survived the snap because she gained so much humanity over those five years, being away from Thanos and even Gamora who always reminded her of her awful past, even if they did reconcile. It let her become herself and realize she could be the hero. She's one of the best characters in the MCU in my opinion.
"you were the one who wanted to win and I just wanted a sister" is probably my favourite line in the whole MCU !
The 2 other contenders being "I do anything and everything that mister Stark requires... Including, occasionaly, taking out the trash" (Iron man 2) and "I'm in the middle of an interrogation, this moron is giving me everything" [and the look she gives him afterward] (the avengers).
I feel like there was a lot more that occurred in guardians of the galaxy 3 that internally challenges Nebula over the course of that adventure to reflect on life and come to the decision of raising the kids that they rescued.
My favorite Nebula moment is in GoG3 when Kraglin accidentally shoots her with Yondu's arrow. She barely responds when an eyeroll and its a testament to how much she's grown to care about and tolerate her stupid, stupid companions.
FINALLY I SEE SOMEONE TALK ABOUT THIS
100% Agree! One of the best MCU arcs.
Agreed, nice vid bro. I was originally disappointed that post Endgame Nebula wasn't more 'open', but redemption doesn't need to completely change a person's character. At the end of the day she's still Nebula, she didn't need a goofy Thor type change to be fully redeemed.
Great video. Nebula had become my favorite MCU character after guardians 2 although personally after G3 I'm drinking the Rocket kool-aid pretty hard. But that all that did was make me love the shot of Rock and Neb quietly holding each others hands in the beginning of Endgame even more. Border lining on thoughts of "this would make a good tattoo". I think they're tied for my favorite characters and arcs now :)
I thought her arc in Endgame was cut short a bit. She deserved a final confrontation with Thanos, maybe even stealing the gauntlet from him like in the book. I love what James Gunn has done with her since, however. Also Karen Gillan.
Great Analysis T1J !
I have felt this way about Nebula for a since End Game. Glad to see that there are others out there who agree. Most complete arch in the MCU.
Nebula doesn’t get enough love - I really liked this!
I can’t feel guilty about skipping through the Nebula ad read because I already have a Nebula subscription.
I saw guardians 3 almost only for Nebula, and it gave me all I ever wanted 😢
Only Marvel thing I've watched in years. Thanks for another good video homie.
Thank you so much for making this video. Nebula is my favorite character in the MCU and her arc throughout all the movies is masterfully done in my opinion.
17:00 I think of it as a mental suicide… this scene gave me the same feelings I got when The Master killed himself as Missy in Doctor Who
Awh man, I just found this channel with this video (which is amazing work by the way( and I was happy when you said that if I like videos like this about MCU that there were none. I just wish their were yours and not Nando's or someone elee..
But even though your videos probably focus on shows or things that I am not too interested, i will be rewarding you s subscription anywsy
This video was dope.
I really appreciate this video
Whoa dude your delivery voice has really sharpened. Did you get voice training? Didn’t even recognize your voice! In a good way!
I had a different take on Nebula's reaction at Thanos's execution. I do not think she felt sad because he was the only father she knew. I think she felt sad that he was the only one she knew who claimed to be her father, while never having had behaved as such, and mourning the part of her life that had been wasted trying to impress him.
I also agree that phase four was underrated.
This is the longest ad for Nebula that I have ever seen. I did watch all of it.
8:22 I can't see that scene without hearing You'll Be My Heart. Thanks Lindsay Ellis
ayy T1J. Great video.
I thought your channel was TLJ, that’s probably why I could never find this guys videos whenever I searched for them
In a universe full of whizzes and flash booms it’s pretty unusual to have a character arc carry through this clearly. The writing is great ofc but Karen Gillian really nailed the role and was the hero we really needed in this whole mess. I didn’t catch the reason she wanted to raise the kids on my first viewing so what she did makes a lot more sense now.
I was thinking "surely the best arc will always belong to Jamie Tartt", then realized I was in the wrong universe.
Seeing that it is Amy Pond in Blue, I always was a Fan of Nebula :)