TIMESTAMPS: Maybe i missed something but i think i didnt if there is something correct me :) 0:45 - Introduction Amazing 1:55 - Amazing's impact on Razork and his progression 5:20 - Jungle talk ( mechanics vs brain play ) 9:11 - Doublelift clip about beating IG 9:59 - Amazing on his struggle's at start of his career 10:49 - Nunu broken af and Sivir pick as ADC(also Ryze reworks) 13:40 - More Razork talk (progression) and Misfits as a team 18:08 - Bvoy talk 21:09 - Communication in game 24:24 - Kobbe and NA approach of game 30:13 - Thorin about football (style differences in certain leagues, and adaptation) 33:22 - Dom bringing it back to League ( Yellowstar and Mithy) 34:07 - Amazing's opinion on Mithy's strenght 37:47 - Toxicity and more talk about Mithy 45:16 - Amazing about enviroment in TSM 48:40 - Playing around stars and coaching in League(comparing to NBA) 54:41 - 100T talk 56:29 - Improvement 59:55 - Amazing being replaced 1:10:21 - Nico the Pico 1:12:53 - Broxah in TL 1:15:20 - Casters becoming coaches in NA (Jatt) 1:19:25 - Amazing thoughts on agressive playstyle vs "afk farming" in jungle(Basicly opinions on LS scaling propaganda) 1:31:21 - Would Dom consider Xerxe farming jungler(also a little bit talk of Malice) 1:37:00 - Tarzaned and toxic players(flaming pro players) 1:47:15 - Takeaways and NBA talk 1:55:36 - Reddit used to flame Soaz 1:56:25 - Grabbz 1:58:44 - Michael Jordan angle 2:03:13 - Perkz and having hungry players who want to win
I agree with Amazing's take on coaches. In traditional sports coaches are on the field or court and directing their players. They mock up plays and are given the chance to make changes on the fly; completely different from LoL.
coaching in e sports is more along the lines of tennis, the tennis coach is never going to be able to teach the player how to hit a better forehand but they teach a mentality and point strategy with the player and counter strategies for certain opponents
when you have the coach standing behind them for the whole game you can also just remove fog of war. they point behind a good LoL player is that he has high mechanicl skill, but at the same time his desicion making on how to move on the map as a team needs also to be perfect. when youn have a coach behind him then you remove this aspect compeltely. I dont know if you know about how coaching in csgo wokred but they had that allowed until valve stepped in and gave them only time to speak in timeouts. What the result was, more tactical supirior ingameleaders came up and had succes. not only the fragger wiht only high mechanicl skill. you have to also take into mind that in soccer or ice hockey or even the nba, the big influence is in the timeouts or breaks and not during the game, shouting, cause the enemie team can hear that to.
I think the coaches impact on the field is way overstated, and coaches themselves often talk about exactly that. Obviously different, but more of a time out/no time out sports difference than traditional/esports imo.
@@seanoguy actually a tennis coach can improve technique since they can help improve body mechanics from their 3rd party perspective and expertise to increase the % of a successful forehand. I think you meant the coach can't swing the forehand for the player. The player has to execute in the moment by themselves, which I agree. Lol coaches are more like a manager and have less active participation than traditional coaches.
Thanks for bringing Amazing on the show, always been a fan of the guy. As a player he's had some tremendous highs and pretty low lows, but I like em as a player and person.
The topic of the difference in the leagues was really interesting. Nothing I really thought about, although the memes were always there. Korea tries to play the correct way, China is just teamfightteamfighteamfightfightfighfight, NA is aram and EU I guess something inbetween, Currently more chaotic I would say. But never really thought about that it also affect players performance greatly when they swap the league. although now after pointing it out it seems really obvious. Really interesting point.
One of thorin's favourite crack downs for sure! You could tell this was his field of expertise. Overall a great one! What is better is I'm a fan of all 3 of you so I loved it!
Dom and Thorin are the premier duo when it comes to LoL analysis. No other combination blends analysis and entertainment better, not even Summoning Insight.
Dom & Thorin, I know you're already on the grind and you know this, but please, more like this! Such a great episode - the show only gets better and I have noticed so much improvement in the way Dom formulates questions, steers diversions and improvises segues which tie the discussion back in to the main thread. I'm sure you know this but there was already an untapped audience of 21+yo well-educated people with an interest in LoL - and if they're anything like me then they're getting older and tiring of the lack of charitable discussion in the main subreddit. They're hungry for more general topics, more abstract/analogical connections to bigger things, or simply finding out new dimensions of the characters of the players they love... And they have suddenly found themselves with a ton of free time. You and your guests are interesting people and we want to share in the more open and free conversations you guys have with one another, like in those after-parties we miss out on. We want more discussions on your guys' theories on improvement & deliberate practice, on handling yourself and other people, expressing how weird it must be to be really good at something so niche and find yourself unpredictably catapulted into fame, and sharing with us old stories about people from back in the days. Someone will want to write a history of early eSports in the coming years and these kind of podcasts are a primary resource :)
when they were talking about how junglers transition from being mechanical gods to just brain players, I feel it's also fair to mention that jungle is probably the role that has taken on the most changes/ mixups throughout the years that league has been a game. You'd have to be pretty insane at the game to stay top tier with your mechanics while basically learning your role all over again when it comes to getting levels/gank patterns and whatnot. Have to be pretty adaptable to be a good jungler, think of the people that were considered the best in the world not even that long ago, Peanut was insane and now no one talks about the guy. Tian was insane at worlds but had, honestly a lack luster split in the LPL. Just kinda food for thought.
Peanut just had a resurgent season as one of the best junglers in the LPL. Tian is still one of the best junglers in the world, having a great playoffs run.
@@team3am149 fair, kinda made my comment off the top of my head, was just random thoughts. Didn't actually keep tabs on Peanut at all this year, been playing catchup watching most of LPL. There's just too many teams man.
@@liammccarthy1253 Nah your point makes perfect sense. It took Peanut another meta change to find more success as a jungler. Tian actually has looked a lot worse this season. People forget that LPL is a 1 single round robin. FPX/IG were def one of the most over hyped teams that looked far worse towards late in the season which was closer to what playoffs meta than how FPX/IG performed in the early start of the season. Tian was getting punished heavily for blind picking lee sin against JDG. Kanavi adapted to the meta and made tian invisible.
Man comment section is so unfunny it hurts its either something negative about ls or "his" community hatting amazing Then the boosting stuff comments are like reddit all copypasta for free likes Ima just take this crack and relax fam
@@MarcellusAugustusGermanicus Messi is far more talented. This dumb argument that he couldn't play in the PL is just stupid. Remember how he toyed/toys with PL defenders. Rio Ferdinand one of the best Center backs in PL history said that Messi was the hardest to face. Him and Vidic got destroyed. Even in the first game of the semis vs Liverpool last year, he toyed with them. And playing good in Serie A doesn't mean shit. CR7 is the 2nd best player to ever play football and is definitely not far of him. Respect to Ronaldo for almost outworking the most talented player ever tho.
on why NA is working from top down like, Amazing, points out early in the show: It would seem to me decisions are made by the people handing out these fat contracts and inflating the market. Jack, is the only one skillful enough to actually conduct his LoL program. The rest are scrambling to find some sort of traction. In NA if your name isn't , Jack, you better have, DL, in your bot lane.
Adapt to what? The reality is they have done it all. Mimic the other top regions and failed. They have tried to play their own LoL and failed even harder. They just realistically do not have the talent to compete from 1-5 at all ends. The only way to compete is if they pull a G2 or FW where NA's best talent is on a single team.
Kappa Kappa I think current C9 is actually pretty close to already being NA’s best. Doublelift is clearly overhyped, Bjerg never wants to leave TSM. After last split I think Nisqy is the best mid. Blaber was the best jungler by far. Zven and Vulcan were the best bot lane. I think I would replace Licorice with Ssumday if I could, but even that is debatable because Licorice might play weak side better if they need him to. There’s an argument for like maybe Jensen in a good environment would be better, same thing with CoreJJ. But other than that I think current C9 is about as close to NA’s best. We’ll see how they do whenever they finally get to have an international tournament.
Even at the challenger level giving solo queue the absolute most credit possible a solo queue game is like a scrimmage during spring training. People don't care as much and most even though they're challenger and VERY talented, won't actually play on a team.
Just look at gameplay, if they stream then you got their "pro view". You can determine a lot by how someone moves their champ even if the game isn't worlds quality overall.
Dom hits the nail on the head with the Jatt situation. Jatt is different than like any of the other casters in the sense that he is probably the only people that could do this. He has game knowledge, experience, and his peers in the industry respect him and his opinions. If there had to be one caster to become a coach, most people would probably say Jatt. I think that goes for any of the regions really.
@@hansmaier7203 which is why he's the GM at 100T. He actually has some business experience pre-LOL and basically got handed the keys to the 100T league side
Jungle is the role that changes 90% early, it's really tough so keep ate the top with both mechanics and brain together, kids that learnt to play right now will always me better mechanically
i got say Thorin is talking about Xsmithe in the difference between streamers and pros argument...you had the best example on the show already. Bwipo said straight up that he started his journey to be a pro with the mindset that winning worlds is the only way he is completely satisfied. That hit me specifically that takes the saying, "Anything you do, give it your all" to a whole new level. Im too old to even thinking about playing pro video games but thats motivating for everything in life and what makes him the scariest pro in the world. Every year hes gonna come out swinging and hunting top laners across the world.
And getting clapped like its his first time. Like what are you even saying. Caps wants to win Worlds, Perkz wants to win worlds, Rookie wants to win worlds, everyone thats getting to worlds (besides Na teams I guess) and probably a lot of players that arent at worlds want to win it.
Except it wasn't a good example he used, players like Messi and Ronaldo will be the best in any league they are in, no matter the style or competition.
I'm curious how many people understood Thorin's reference of playstyle differences in the EU footbal scene. Playstyles between the league's are so different, so a really good example.
I think the whole player driven style vs topdown coaching is a very interesting perspective. The root of this may lay in the traditional sports culture. NA trad. sports like American Football has a structure that allows a coach the directly coach during the game. Hell the call each play. Where as in EU 11 players are dropped in the pitch and have to figure it out for 45 minutes during a Football match. League also has zero direct coaching during a match which would lead to believe player driven coaching is better. In the early seasons , since the game wasn't as figured out, this didn't hurt the teams as much, ecxept for Korea winning everything XD, but the more layered the game strats get bigger the difference is going get.
Actually as of late the game has got a lot more dumb down. Post S7 worlds with the removal of vision and previous changes to remove lane swaps that made the game more strategical in nature. S8 and above is the skirmishing team aligned meta that removed a lot of impact for an individual to carry. They also made it a lot more rewarding to play for the early game so simple things as "win lane win game" that was a risky strat back in the past seasons is now the optimal way to play the game out.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg True, although you could also argue that the game is more difficult making decisions with less information to go by. To me complexity of the game and level of understanding are two different things. I think we can agree we still have much to learn about the game. The less complex a game is the more important the smallest detail gets as does fast and decisive decision making.
@@florisbackx1744 That would make sense if teams didn't figure out how to mitigate those situations. LPL teams it was essentially what they have been doing way before the shift to the meta. Using lane pressure and aggressive skirmishing junglers to coin flip unknown variables into winning 2v2. As well, since the rune changes has resulted in a huge increase in damage this makes these scenarios a lot more successful to execute. I can agree with the last part. The problem I have with the current meta is that the game has shifted a ton of individual carry power away to more team action. Of course the changes hasn't been perfect hence why ADC has been more atrocious to balance since games are ending early = ADC are not spiking quick enough to be relevant for soloq. Riot def has to do a lot of work for the skirmishing meta to help bridge a way for all roles to function well. Honestly, past seasons before the vision change they were far more successful since the games tend to stretch out a bit.
The problem is xmithie isn't consistent. He looks horrendous in the skirmishing meta. If not for NA being pretty free for top end teams then xmithie would've been exposed far earlier. Just look at his recent international trips, he's just power farming while nearly all successful team at worlds had strong early game junglers.
Hahaha, Forlan is Uruguayan and he went to Man U from Independiente (Argentina) when he was 23 to be van Nistelrooy sub..... and THEN he went to Spain to be the starter of Villareal when he was 25.... so weird that he performed better at 25 being the starter
Kobbe got 1 split to adjust to a new team, environment, across half the world and they judge his perfomance as the reason why Tsm failed (again btw). Kobbe will most likely get back to form in EU.
they never judged him as the reason TSM failed. Doublelift became available and they chose that he would be better. Noone blamed him, noone said he was the problem or even a problem. Stop creating bullshit narratives that dont exist.
@@duendevidz3966 IWD literally said, that many thought kobbe was one of the reasons of a lackluster season. Stop calling me on my bs when you can't even comprehense a fcking podcast xD.
love your work dom - great convo! have you considered having 4 people on the show? - would have loved to have had +1 rookie junnger in this particular setup peace bro
I think Thorin passes the ball to IWD but IWD doesn't notices it, I think he should pass the ball back to Thorin a little bit more, not only ask the guest... Otherwise awesome podcast!
Holy shit, who knew two host that know what they are talking about would bring fantastic interviews with their guest? Amazing is always a great guest but every other na show wastes Him.
There's sadly no downside to fast paced playing anymore. Junglers can basically run onto lanes 24/7 without actually losing much, because the gained advantage through excessive ganking in every way outshines the individual advantage a jungler can get by farming.
@@Dolo888 There's a difference between solo queue and professional play though. Farming junglers will always be better in solo queue than in pro play, where setting your teammates up and coordinating with them is way more important. LoL soloq is not a team game, yes there's five people on the team but you get consistently better results if you play for yourself first and your teammates second. Pro play is entirely different.
Not hate but Amazing sure is a talker. When he goes off it’s no longer a dialogue. Interesting, but sometimes he tries to stress his points too hard. Killer guest still.
FUCKING THANK YOU THROIN! People always arguing with me how Messi better than CR7 like bro? Messi would not be able to do as well on another team with his style. Messi is great, one of these greatest, I'm not fighting that but how you gonna dismiss Ronaldo when he has PROVEN he can play in different Leagues??? Messi play on Barcelona forever which is basically the entire Spain national team too. Messi is great, but Ronaldo is the greatest! Not pushing it as a fact, but if you are going to argue for Messi you gotta do better than that.
Who said Koreans don’t work at Eu when Europeans don’t wants to import koreans. For example long time ago huni and wodid had been in Eu And imported Koreans that does not mean win championship. It depends on how team work : for example giving you Theshy and Faker, jungle adc coach and support are sucks. It can not win
Most people don't remember the days of things like the elixir of agility and it would cost 250g and you'd buy that first item and wreck people as like Yi, or things like philo stone on alistar, or the original jax where he'd have flat dodge chance percentage versus his current kit.
Does anybody here know what Shungite is? No not Suge Knight, I think he's locked up in prison. Talking shungite. Anyways, it's like a two billion year old.. like rock... stone... that protect against frequencies and unwanted frequencies that may be traveling in the air. That's my story, I bought a whole bunch of stuff, put them around the la casa, little pyramids, stuff like that.
Give me a break, don't spint that always to people. LS is at fault just as much. He rides all the memes and gives into them because it's favourable for him and his cult. His streams for the past 2 years have been basically discussion with other coaches/players on twitter turned into memes and reiterated over and over again. Any groomers in the chat or what? So yes, a normal discourse gets always lost in useless deviations in order to not talk the actual point.
So basically ya you can't even judge a player's performance while they're on TSM cause they fuck up almost all of them. Got it! They can literally go next door to C9 and be gods lmao
TIMESTAMPS: Maybe i missed something but i think i didnt if there is something correct me :)
0:45 - Introduction Amazing
1:55 - Amazing's impact on Razork and his progression
5:20 - Jungle talk ( mechanics vs brain play )
9:11 - Doublelift clip about beating IG
9:59 - Amazing on his struggle's at start of his career
10:49 - Nunu broken af and Sivir pick as ADC(also Ryze reworks)
13:40 - More Razork talk (progression) and Misfits as a team
18:08 - Bvoy talk
21:09 - Communication in game
24:24 - Kobbe and NA approach of game
30:13 - Thorin about football (style differences in certain leagues, and adaptation)
33:22 - Dom bringing it back to League ( Yellowstar and Mithy)
34:07 - Amazing's opinion on Mithy's strenght
37:47 - Toxicity and more talk about Mithy
45:16 - Amazing about enviroment in TSM
48:40 - Playing around stars and coaching in League(comparing to NBA)
54:41 - 100T talk
56:29 - Improvement
59:55 - Amazing being replaced
1:10:21 - Nico the Pico
1:12:53 - Broxah in TL
1:15:20 - Casters becoming coaches in NA (Jatt)
1:19:25 - Amazing thoughts on agressive playstyle vs "afk farming" in jungle(Basicly opinions on LS scaling propaganda)
1:31:21 - Would Dom consider Xerxe farming jungler(also a little bit talk of Malice)
1:37:00 - Tarzaned and toxic players(flaming pro players)
1:47:15 - Takeaways and NBA talk
1:55:36 - Reddit used to flame Soaz
1:56:25 - Grabbz
1:58:44 - Michael Jordan angle
2:03:13 - Perkz and having hungry players who want to win
Marko Josic I
LH
I agree with Amazing's take on coaches. In traditional sports coaches are on the field or court and directing their players. They mock up plays and are given the chance to make changes on the fly; completely different from LoL.
Is
coaching in e sports is more along the lines of tennis, the tennis coach is never going to be able to teach the player how to hit a better forehand but they teach a mentality and point strategy with the player and counter strategies for certain opponents
when you have the coach standing behind them for the whole game you can also just remove fog of war. they point behind a good LoL player is that he has high mechanicl skill, but at the same time his desicion making on how to move on the map as a team needs also to be perfect. when youn have a coach behind him then you remove this aspect compeltely. I dont know if you know about how coaching in csgo wokred but they had that allowed until valve stepped in and gave them only time to speak in timeouts. What the result was, more tactical supirior ingameleaders came up and had succes. not only the fragger wiht only high mechanicl skill. you have to also take into mind that in soccer or ice hockey or even the nba, the big influence is in the timeouts or breaks and not during the game, shouting, cause the enemie team can hear that to.
I think the coaches impact on the field is way overstated, and coaches themselves often talk about exactly that. Obviously different, but more of a time out/no time out sports difference than traditional/esports imo.
@@seanoguy actually a tennis coach can improve technique since they can help improve body mechanics from their 3rd party perspective and expertise to increase the % of a successful forehand. I think you meant the coach can't swing the forehand for the player. The player has to execute in the moment by themselves, which I agree. Lol coaches are more like a manager and have less active participation than traditional coaches.
WHERES IS THE TIMESTAMP DUUDE PLEASE
The Crack Down is what gets me through quarantine. Thanks for uploading this stuff Dom!
@X206Killj0yX I have a PC but i fucking hate league atm haha
Read some books.
that shit still going where you are from? lol ridiculous
a rare guest that actually will out talk you guys and lay down some good insights ... great show, best show so far I think
timestamps pls
Beautiful episode thought, It's always a pleasure hearing from Amazing and the discussions he sparkles!
Thanks for bringing Amazing on the show, always been a fan of the guy. As a player he's had some tremendous highs and pretty low lows, but I like em as a player and person.
is this the legendary tarzaned IWD breakpoint aka boosto manifesto
this was recorded before the drama
AYNSTAYNtv damn this was recorded 2 years ago? Cool
What happened between Dom and Tarzaned?
@@SBWinnerthe 10k boosting tingz🤷🏻♂️
@MidWarlord and there won't as the drama is over
Bring Tarzaned on next :)
hahahhaa
Seconded!
I dont think he's worth Thorin's time but face check thoo
tarzaned will make Thorin end this show as well
The topic of the difference in the leagues was really interesting. Nothing I really thought about, although
the memes were always there. Korea tries to play the correct way, China is just teamfightteamfighteamfightfightfighfight, NA is aram and EU I guess something inbetween, Currently more chaotic I would say.
But never really thought about that it also affect players performance greatly when they swap the league. although now after pointing it out it seems really obvious. Really interesting point.
Forlan is Uruguayan, he did well in 2010 world cup also
Uruguay noma
Right Uruguayan nationality but had a stint in La Liga for a good while. Great to watch
Thorin is just an idiot
he was INSANE in south africa 2010
shouldve (might be thinking of) F. Torres, better analogy here
One of thorin's favourite crack downs for sure! You could tell this was his field of expertise. Overall a great one! What is better is I'm a fan of all 3 of you so I loved it!
i think its the first time in crackdown where the guest actually wanted to talk about something when dom asked that question
Yeah Probably
Fantastic episode. Intriguing topics and discussions with a great guest who could deliver good insight. Keep it up, Dom and Thorin!
Dom and Thorin are the premier duo when it comes to LoL analysis. No other combination blends analysis and entertainment better, not even Summoning Insight.
Dom & Thorin, I know you're already on the grind and you know this, but please, more like this! Such a great episode - the show only gets better and I have noticed so much improvement in the way Dom formulates questions, steers diversions and improvises segues which tie the discussion back in to the main thread. I'm sure you know this but there was already an untapped audience of 21+yo well-educated people with an interest in LoL - and if they're anything like me then they're getting older and tiring of the lack of charitable discussion in the main subreddit. They're hungry for more general topics, more abstract/analogical connections to bigger things, or simply finding out new dimensions of the characters of the players they love... And they have suddenly found themselves with a ton of free time.
You and your guests are interesting people and we want to share in the more open and free conversations you guys have with one another, like in those after-parties we miss out on. We want more discussions on your guys' theories on improvement & deliberate practice, on handling yourself and other people, expressing how weird it must be to be really good at something so niche and find yourself unpredictably catapulted into fame, and sharing with us old stories about people from back in the days. Someone will want to write a history of early eSports in the coming years and these kind of podcasts are a primary resource :)
Still no timestamps :(
Really enjoyed this Basketball Podcast.
Great content Dom, watched your DR K vid and i can relate to you alot more now.
Dom is getting really better at this
The bright Red in the background is kinda hard to look at
Then don't look at it
wait why do u watch this xD
just listen
Plz update this man
timestamps
hi!, does anybody know why arent the podcasts getting uploaded to spotify?. Really wanna hear them but its the only way i can
Who cares, just download the eps as a mp3 file lol.
when they were talking about how junglers transition from being mechanical gods to just brain players, I feel it's also fair to mention that jungle is probably the role that has taken on the most changes/ mixups throughout the years that league has been a game. You'd have to be pretty insane at the game to stay top tier with your mechanics while basically learning your role all over again when it comes to getting levels/gank patterns and whatnot. Have to be pretty adaptable to be a good jungler, think of the people that were considered the best in the world not even that long ago, Peanut was insane and now no one talks about the guy. Tian was insane at worlds but had, honestly a lack luster split in the LPL. Just kinda food for thought.
Peanut just had a resurgent season as one of the best junglers in the LPL. Tian is still one of the best junglers in the world, having a great playoffs run.
@@team3am149 fair, kinda made my comment off the top of my head, was just random thoughts. Didn't actually keep tabs on Peanut at all this year, been playing catchup watching most of LPL. There's just too many teams man.
@@liammccarthy1253 Nah your point makes perfect sense. It took Peanut another meta change to find more success as a jungler. Tian actually has looked a lot worse this season. People forget that LPL is a 1 single round robin. FPX/IG were def one of the most over hyped teams that looked far worse towards late in the season which was closer to what playoffs meta than how FPX/IG performed in the early start of the season. Tian was getting punished heavily for blind picking lee sin against JDG. Kanavi adapted to the meta and made tian invisible.
Man comment section is so unfunny it hurts its either something negative about ls or "his" community hatting amazing
Then the boosting stuff comments are like reddit all copypasta for free likes
Ima just take this crack and relax fam
LS fans malding over the guest
I see u in every thorin podcast episode. You have good taste 5Head
And the Messi fangirls over Thorin's comments. It's official now CR7>Midget
I thought we moved on over this
@@MarcellusAugustusGermanicus Messi is far more talented. This dumb argument that he couldn't play in the PL is just stupid. Remember how he toyed/toys with PL defenders. Rio Ferdinand one of the best Center backs in PL history said that Messi was the hardest to face. Him and Vidic got destroyed. Even in the first game of the semis vs Liverpool last year, he toyed with them. And playing good in Serie A doesn't mean shit. CR7 is the 2nd best player to ever play football and is definitely not far of him. Respect to Ronaldo for almost outworking the most talented player ever tho.
@@chusay7006 imagine unironically thinking that ronaldo is better i want to slap the scot
THORIN at 2:00 - Lets get started 👊
on why NA is working from top down like, Amazing, points out early in the show: It would seem to me decisions are made by the people handing out these fat contracts and inflating the market. Jack, is the only one skillful enough to actually conduct his LoL program. The rest are scrambling to find some sort of traction. In NA if your name isn't , Jack, you better have, DL, in your bot lane.
Was Thorin talking about Forlan? He's Uruguayan, but the point remains.
Yes, I think he meant that Forlan played in the spanish league
I like the fact that Amazing wasn't holding back. NA really needs to adapt a lil bit.
Adapt to what? The reality is they have done it all. Mimic the other top regions and failed. They have tried to play their own LoL and failed even harder. They just realistically do not have the talent to compete from 1-5 at all ends. The only way to compete is if they pull a G2 or FW where NA's best talent is on a single team.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg NA´s best would include a majority of EU players tho, max is 2 imports, so even that is tricky to pull off lol
Kappa Kappa I think current C9 is actually pretty close to already being NA’s best. Doublelift is clearly overhyped, Bjerg never wants to leave TSM. After last split I think Nisqy is the best mid. Blaber was the best jungler by far. Zven and Vulcan were the best bot lane. I think I would replace Licorice with Ssumday if I could, but even that is debatable because Licorice might play weak side better if they need him to. There’s an argument for like maybe Jensen in a good environment would be better, same thing with CoreJJ. But other than that I think current C9 is about as close to NA’s best. We’ll see how they do whenever they finally get to have an international tournament.
Dom Vs Tarzaned boxing match set for Aug 29th 2020 link for tickets to follow
Even at the challenger level giving solo queue the absolute most credit possible a solo queue game is like a scrimmage during spring training. People don't care as much and most even though they're challenger and VERY talented, won't actually play on a team.
Just look at gameplay, if they stream then you got their "pro view". You can determine a lot by how someone moves their champ even if the game isn't worlds quality overall.
Dom hits the nail on the head with the Jatt situation. Jatt is different than like any of the other casters in the sense that he is probably the only people that could do this. He has game knowledge, experience, and his peers in the industry respect him and his opinions.
If there had to be one caster to become a coach, most people would probably say Jatt. I think that goes for any of the regions really.
Lmao. No. The one caster that people could actually see becoming a coach is/was PapaSmithy
@@hansmaier7203 which is why he's the GM at 100T. He actually has some business experience pre-LOL and basically got handed the keys to the 100T league side
Glad to see Dom and Tarzaned decided to grow the fuck up
Jungle is the role that changes 90% early, it's really tough so keep ate the top with both mechanics and brain together, kids that learnt to play right now will always me better mechanically
i got say Thorin is talking about Xsmithe in the difference between streamers and pros argument...you had the best example on the show already. Bwipo said straight up that he started his journey to be a pro with the mindset that winning worlds is the only way he is completely satisfied. That hit me specifically that takes the saying, "Anything you do, give it your all" to a whole new level. Im too old to even thinking about playing pro video games but thats motivating for everything in life and what makes him the scariest pro in the world. Every year hes gonna come out swinging and hunting top laners across the world.
And getting clapped like its his first time. Like what are you even saying. Caps wants to win Worlds, Perkz wants to win worlds, Rookie wants to win worlds, everyone thats getting to worlds (besides Na teams I guess) and probably a lot of players that arent at worlds want to win it.
'interesting characters in the high elo scene' is such a good description
finally a god football analogy OwO
Except it wasn't a good example he used, players like Messi and Ronaldo will be the best in any league they are in, no matter the style or competition.
Great episode, great show.
I'm curious how many people understood Thorin's reference of playstyle differences in the EU footbal scene. Playstyles between the league's are so different, so a really good example.
Still no timestamps pepeHands
11:54 I mean sivir and chill is fun af in my opinion but whatevs
Forlan is Uruguayan Thorin...
That wonderful feeling when your league content talks about american pro sports
I think the whole player driven style vs topdown coaching is a very interesting perspective. The root of this may lay in the traditional sports culture. NA trad. sports like American Football has a structure that allows a coach the directly coach during the game. Hell the call each play. Where as in EU 11 players are dropped in the pitch and have to figure it out for 45 minutes during a Football match. League also has zero direct coaching during a match which would lead to believe player driven coaching is better. In the early seasons , since the game wasn't as figured out, this didn't hurt the teams as much, ecxept for Korea winning everything XD, but the more layered the game strats get bigger the difference is going get.
Actually as of late the game has got a lot more dumb down. Post S7 worlds with the removal of vision and previous changes to remove lane swaps that made the game more strategical in nature. S8 and above is the skirmishing team aligned meta that removed a lot of impact for an individual to carry. They also made it a lot more rewarding to play for the early game so simple things as "win lane win game" that was a risky strat back in the past seasons is now the optimal way to play the game out.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg True, although you could also argue that the game is more difficult making decisions with less information to go by. To me complexity of the game and level of understanding are two different things. I think we can agree we still have much to learn about the game. The less complex a game is the more important the smallest detail gets as does fast and decisive decision making.
@@florisbackx1744 That would make sense if teams didn't figure out how to mitigate those situations. LPL teams it was essentially what they have been doing way before the shift to the meta. Using lane pressure and aggressive skirmishing junglers to coin flip unknown variables into winning 2v2. As well, since the rune changes has resulted in a huge increase in damage this makes these scenarios a lot more successful to execute. I can agree with the last part. The problem I have with the current meta is that the game has shifted a ton of individual carry power away to more team action. Of course the changes hasn't been perfect hence why ADC has been more atrocious to balance since games are ending early = ADC are not spiking quick enough to be relevant for soloq. Riot def has to do a lot of work for the skirmishing meta to help bridge a way for all roles to function well. Honestly, past seasons before the vision change they were far more successful since the games tend to stretch out a bit.
Algorithm comment
Beep bop beep comment
Tarzaned boosted this podcast 2 challenger level
9:45 so what you are saying, Thorin, is that, Xsmithie, is the superior jungler to, Broxah, in your professional opinion? Agreed.
The problem is xmithie isn't consistent. He looks horrendous in the skirmishing meta. If not for NA being pretty free for top end teams then xmithie would've been exposed far earlier. Just look at his recent international trips, he's just power farming while nearly all successful team at worlds had strong early game junglers.
Love the jordan peterson reference at the end :)
Loved the last dance talk
Hahaha, Forlan is Uruguayan and he went to Man U from Independiente (Argentina) when he was 23 to be van Nistelrooy sub..... and THEN he went to Spain to be the starter of Villareal when he was 25.... so weird that he performed better at 25 being the starter
The end of this video made me remember why Kiwikid was on Dig until the end lol.
Kobbe got 1 split to adjust to a new team, environment, across half the world and they judge his perfomance as the reason why Tsm failed (again btw). Kobbe will most likely get back to form in EU.
they never judged him as the reason TSM failed. Doublelift became available and they chose that he would be better. Noone blamed him, noone said he was the problem or even a problem. Stop creating bullshit narratives that dont exist.
@@duendevidz3966 IWD literally said, that many thought kobbe was one of the reasons of a lackluster season. Stop calling me on my bs when you can't even comprehense a fcking podcast xD.
can thorin bringing forgiven as example so much...... it has become a lil tiring
amazing rly improved his articulation and vocabulary, the ??? used to have some merit, good on him
1:04:10 was he about to cry or is it just me?
love your work dom - great convo!
have you considered having 4 people on the show? - would have loved to have had +1 rookie junnger in this particular setup
peace bro
the esports historian is todday joined by renowned diamond player iwilldominate
this
@@natsaunders1434 this is not reddit normie
I think Thorin passes the ball to IWD but IWD doesn't notices it, I think he should pass the ball back to Thorin a little bit more, not only ask the guest... Otherwise awesome podcast!
thorin talks enough by himself and I'm mostly here for the guests
Still a valid point. Better synergy between the hosts leads to an even better show
Great Show Dom!
1:35:00 THORIN I LOVE YOU XD
Amazing is one of my favorite players / coaches, nice to see him here!
Well if u knew Razork before LEC you could totally expect that progression
Timestamps?
There’s like a million ads, so listening to this on the phone while doing other stuff is practically impossible. :/
You could download the podcast and play it on your phone.
I do it to save data
Wisteria Berlitz where can I download it?!
@@sleven8013 I use 4K Downloader to rip videos onto my pc then I transfer to phone
There're other ways to rip videos but the idea is the same
Thank you for my daily crack
Holy shit, who knew two host that know what they are talking about would bring fantastic interviews with their guest? Amazing is always a great guest but every other na show wastes Him.
It was DEFINETELY shox by process of elimination, very well catch there
There's sadly no downside to fast paced playing anymore. Junglers can basically run onto lanes 24/7 without actually losing much, because the gained advantage through excessive ganking in every way outshines the individual advantage a jungler can get by farming.
Nah farming junglers are stronger right now. Anytime a ganking jungler takes the game is usually on laners fucking up.
That’s why the highest overall jungler performance picks are graves Kayn ekko all farming junglers.
@@Dolo888 this is copypasta of Amazings tweet
@@Dolo888 There's a difference between solo queue and professional play though. Farming junglers will always be better in solo queue than in pro play, where setting your teammates up and coordinating with them is way more important. LoL soloq is not a team game, yes there's five people on the team but you get consistently better results if you play for yourself first and your teammates second. Pro play is entirely different.
Watch in 0.75 Speed , amazing Sounds normal then
Not hate but Amazing sure is a talker. When he goes off it’s no longer a dialogue. Interesting, but sometimes he tries to stress his points too hard. Killer guest still.
*Tell me I'm dumb* 😳
FUCKING THANK YOU THROIN! People always arguing with me how Messi better than CR7 like bro? Messi would not be able to do as well on another team with his style. Messi is great, one of these greatest, I'm not fighting that but how you gonna dismiss Ronaldo when he has PROVEN he can play in different Leagues??? Messi play on Barcelona forever which is basically the entire Spain national team too. Messi is great, but Ronaldo is the greatest! Not pushing it as a fact, but if you are going to argue for Messi you gotta do better than that.
Great video ICantGetChallenger! Liked and subscribed
Holy shit, just how bad was Mike Yeung? lol
Who said Koreans don’t work at Eu when Europeans don’t wants to import koreans. For example long time ago huni and wodid had been in Eu
And imported Koreans that does not mean win championship. It depends on how team work : for example giving you Theshy and Faker, jungle adc coach and support are sucks. It can not win
Ignar
Thorin talking about CR7 as better than Messi. I can't even stop laughing.
So you were boosted to chally bro?
Most people don't remember the days of things like the elixir of agility and it would cost 250g and you'd buy that first item and wreck people as like Yi, or things like philo stone on alistar, or the original jax where he'd have flat dodge chance percentage versus his current kit.
did u groom him dom huh?
Epic episode
When is the crack manifesto
Timestamp guy? where u at??
Does anybody here know what Shungite is? No not Suge Knight, I think he's locked up in prison. Talking shungite. Anyways, it's like a two billion year old.. like rock... stone... that protect against frequencies and unwanted frequencies that may be traveling in the air. That's my story, I bought a whole bunch of stuff, put them around the la casa, little pyramids, stuff like that.
phreak for the last 4 years.... phreak for the last 3 years
1:57:00 FNX kek
POG CHAMP
Amazing is such a smart guy and really interesting. He's a rare breed of esport player
These jokes are just not landing for amazing, lol
Maurice sitzt einfach da im Unterhemd und Webcam an xD
Auf locodoco angelehnt
@@JoeMama-ik7qf EU loco xD trueee
1:18:00
forlan is uruguayo
selfie..malice... yeah, just ls with insane bias towards friends with use of profile to do them favors.
Tho "The problem is" rin
The amount of times Thorin steam rolls over iwd trying to talk is ridiculous, let the dude talk
Crack is one helluva drug
Give me a break, don't spint that always to people. LS is at fault just as much. He rides all the memes and gives into them because it's favourable for him and his cult. His streams for the past 2 years have been basically discussion with other coaches/players on twitter turned into memes and reiterated over and over again. Any groomers in the chat or what?
So yes, a normal discourse gets always lost in useless deviations in order to not talk the actual point.
So basically ya you can't even judge a player's performance while they're on TSM cause they fuck up almost all of them. Got it! They can literally go next door to C9 and be gods lmao
Dude the add brakes are kinda much
You try working for free if you even have a job
uBlock Origin
Rat wrestling I see i learned today.