Really insightful intro Glen....it's not ALL about the fishing and catching. The memories brought about by the fellowship is so important! And yeah, all the educational info is always a plus as well!
Awe, thanks for that! I truly feel the connection we make through all this are the real things we will remember years from now! Appreciate you watching!
Great video Glen - Dr. Bob's episode on Not a Musky Podcast was really interesting - I really enjoy the biology angle when it comes to understanding the hunt and look forward to hearing hearing your future conversation on these subjects! A couple other recommendations - Dr. Sean Landsman on Gord Pyzer's podcast Doc Talks Fishing and Dr. Steven Cooke on Ugly Pike - super interesting episodes that remind me of this discussion.
Thanks for watching! I am currently working on lining up a biologist for a future live stream on the subject! I think we can all agree, we need to protect our resource. And the science will do that!
I completely agree with you Glen. I fish deep cold Canadian Shield spring fed lake trout lakes here in northeastern Ontario for Muskies and they just seem to handle it alot better. My best spots are nice breaks that go from 15-20ft down to 45-60ft. I think it has to do with temperature stability of the water throughout the water column with our cold deep Canadian lakes
I agree, the Canadian shield lakes just fish different than those south of the border. For years most of the authority in the musky world came from the Midwest, outside of guys like Herbie on Eagle. I believe the movement to fishing 'over' deeper water on shield lakes started with some of the most successful guides on Eagle Lake offer the years. Appreciate the support!
Always an interesting topic. Seems anglers just have to go off their own set of guidelines and decide if what they are doing aligns with an ethical practice given the conditions. As someone else said, huge difference in dragging one up from 35 feet on a jig vs one shooting up on its own will to eat a bait. And you are absolutely correct about livescope not making a difference lol. People just want to find any way to hate on it. Definitely have been surprised at the lack of discussion or scolding for guys trolling in 40 feet, especially as some of those baits are getting pretty far down…
I agree about the lack of concern over trolling over basin fish, I think those anglers always thought the fish were suspended but ffs is proving that fish come from much further down in the water column. I also believe too many anglers are quick to point a finger at others, while they do essentially the same thing via trolling of without ffs. Crazy subject and I truly plan to dig deeper into this one during the off season!
There are lots of variables in addition to the depth. Some waterways turn over well and keep temps in a fair range. The top contributors are Larry R. And Pete M. They are speaking about boarder areas between us for comparison. Rivers, lakes, average temps,oxygen levels, and clarity all play a factor in the discussion. The general practice is for peak temperatures of the body of water. The warmer the surface temps get, the greater the fish will be affected by depth. Ask anyone who deals with aquatic fish. 1° difference in water temp, or pressure can cause any species to go into shock. Now throw in the energy used during the struggle of being caught. It's no different than you or I would fly to a region, run out of the airport and jump into a hot bath. It takes time to adjust. Or jump into the cold ocean on a hot day. They family jewels will let you know how long it takes to adjust to the water. The industry practices are for temps and pressure. Muskie taken from 30' down will be exposed to the environment that is deadly. While this is not concrete proof. Because it depends on each location and day to day. Canadian waters typically run cooler throughout the year. The oxygen level is also higher. What we practice in shallow rivers won't apply to the great lakes or Canadian waters. Point is....be aware of temps and conditions. Preserve what we have. Big fish don't grow overnight.
I agree we need to preserve what we have, but I don't agree with social media police trying to tell others what to do, or ridiculing them for posting. The old timers always have sound advice, but we should be open to accept science on these subjects as well. Appreciate you chiming in!
U could not have said it any better and thats what most people dont realize, they swim away fine at the time but what happens to the fish 20 mins or an hr later can ruin fisherys !
I need to get on he water and practice fishing deep. Also… I think I’m going to buy a little tikes board to do breakdowns in the cabin with my buddies every night after a day of fishing. I think with a couple cocktails it will be a fun activity. Like Pictionary but with the anguish of missing fish and talking about it.
As you should! You gotta video the Pictionary breakdown with your squad! I'm guessing that would be blooper reel highlights! Appreciate ask the support Bruce!
Interesting subject for sure. I’ve talked to others that share your experience. I also just watched a Doug Wegner video where he talks about barotrauma and says he has seen it in deep water strikes. I wonder if water temp is a compounding factor? Also, just curious if you guys are going to get out on Wabigoon at all for a video this year? It’s my favorite lake! :) Love the channel!
We are planning a good video with a good friend real soon! I trust what Doug has witnessed, I'm a little unsure on actual science of barotrauma and how anglers use the term. I suspect we anglers witness more stress events due to the actual catch, then true barotrauma events. Looking forward to learning more on this subject over the off season!
My thoughts are that If a fish comes out of deep water let’s say 35’ or so and hits a bait that 7 or 10’ feet down there will be no effects on that fish. Why would there be it came up on its own accord to hit that bait. However if a fish is 35 to 40’ down and I drop a posideon on its head and it eats it there, then possibly adverse effects to that fish could occur which could be detrimental to its survival. Especially if you bring it up to warm water. I think the thermocline also plays a roll as how deep a musky will go in the summer. If the thermocline sets up at 25’ I doubt barautrama would occur.
I agree, muskies that willingly swim up for a bait are much less affected, but that doesn't account for fish we catch while jigging or sucker rigging in the fall that are hooked in 25'+ of water. Is the cool water the difference maker? I would love to help study some of these subjects, I think some sound science would be great on this.
Thanks for another great video! With shield shield lakes its pretty much unavoidable to catch muskies from the deep. I can hope they're suspended but only fishing the shallows ~10' from shore won't land us a musky just because of how pike infested the area is. That being said, I'd be interested to hear what a biologist has to say on the matter. Now might not be the best time to suggest it, but I'd love to see a jigging tutorial from you guys. Ever get any lake trout by-catch?
I tend to agree, in most cases the Shallow water with generally hold smaller fish, outside of some key times of the year. Lots of fish sit suspended, but the amount of muskies down at 20+ get woke shock most and seeing them follow trolling baits, coming up from deep water to chase a bait proves the point. We have caught trout with trolling in the fall. The jigging topic is something we can cover, certainly not our strong suit.
Very interesting subject. I have never heard of anyone talking about this casting or trolling in 20 foot plus on lake st Clair where i fish. I think people who jig in the Detroit River all catch fish greater than 30 foot but i am not sure. I only cast the lake.
It seems to be a issue in 'areas'. MN it seems to be a real problem or a perceived problem. In Northwestern Ontario it is a social media problem brought on by FFS debate. I would use the jigging bite in the Detroit River as an example of deep water fishing that no one has ever had a moral issue with. Go jig 30' on Eagle Lake and the online community will be all over you. It's a subject that will only get more upfront as we focus on different ways to catch muskies. I for one, only hope to share our experience and hope to bring some actual science to the discussion. Thanks for watching!
Interesting topic. I see it often when perch fishing in Lake Erie but most of these fish are kept for eating. I wonder if it's a combination of the pressure change while the fish is fighting and under some trauma from defense. Does a release of adrenaline/oxygen, etc. make the difference? It will be interesting to hear from some experts.
It's an interesting topic for sure, and I have a biologist lined up for a YT live stream soon. Looking forward to hearing some of the science behind muskies.
@@54orbust I hear many smallmouth bass die during tournaments when they catch them from 30-50 feet deep. Some people tried "fizzing" them to release the air bladder pressure but it sounded like that wasn't a viable solution. True sports people want to be sure the game fish numbers are around for the next generation so it's a great discussion for sure.
The tournaments and 'fizzing' and/or delayed mortality seems to get buried under the prizes and winning. I've had to do it to walleye in tournaments, now I choose to not enter tournaments. It's never gonna be perfect but, damn we gotta try to be better.
Interesting....I don't ever worry about depth only Temps but usually when I catch one over deep water I believe the fish is suspended and bait balls are less the 10 feet down. I do not have live scope. So this is a educated guess but any way, in Mn I have never seen a musky with baratroma. I Have seen walleye get it when fishing over 20 feet down jigging. not sure if this helps at all but it's what I noticed.
I love heading others experiences as well, we are all in this together! We've known for a while now that way more fish than we ever thought are spending time in the 15'-30' foot range. I'm no biologist, but our experience has never been negative with any catch over a certain depth. Appreciate you watching!
man i only fish muskies in rivers here in the south of usa that aint all that deep, but ive done alot of deep water fishing for strippers in the salt, the ones in deep water that come up to hit a bait or are suspended dont have a hard time but the ones that you have to go down to the bottom to present a bait really struggle. i suspect muskies are the same way.
You may be correct, I'm not sure how strippers are compared to muskies in the sense of being able to regulate the pressure inside their body. The fact is many muskies hang out in deeper water, and willingly chase a bait upwards, whether its a trolled bait or casted bait. Many, many anglers jig for muskies in rivers and lakes, those are deep water fish. Hoping to have a biologist on soon to help uncover some of the science behind this subject.
Worst case scenario is opposite of what most people think. When the surface is COLDER than 30+ feet down the fish are most likely to die. The idea of a musky, or any fish for that matter, suffering from barotrauma while swimming under its own power ie not on the end of line is well… 😂
I think there is lots we don't take in account as the vast majority of anglers chase a pic and instant gratification. It's our job, as members of the musky community to help educate others, to the best of our ability. I don't know the science behind it, but we plan to talk to those who do. I also agree, all bets are off when you hook a 40 pound fish in the face with 7/0 hooks and power reel her into the net. Ask we can do is the best we can, always appreciate you tuning in. Much respect 👊
Really insightful intro Glen....it's not ALL about the fishing and catching. The memories brought about by the fellowship is so important! And yeah, all the educational info is always a plus as well!
Awe, thanks for that! I truly feel the connection we make through all this are the real things we will remember years from now!
Appreciate you watching!
Great video Glen - Dr. Bob's episode on Not a Musky Podcast was really interesting - I really enjoy the biology angle when it comes to understanding the hunt and look forward to hearing hearing your future conversation on these subjects! A couple other recommendations - Dr. Sean Landsman on Gord Pyzer's podcast Doc Talks Fishing and Dr. Steven Cooke on Ugly Pike - super interesting episodes that remind me of this discussion.
Thanks for watching! I am currently working on lining up a biologist for a future live stream on the subject!
I think we can all agree, we need to protect our resource. And the science will do that!
Great topic Glen, love to hear from a fish biologist on this one. Excellent breakdown and video brother.
Looking like a YT live stream next week with a biologist on this and similar subjects. I find these subjects so captivating, thx for watching!
Thanks a lot Glenn! It means a lot to get such appreciation! 🙏
Appreciate all your support, and glad to help a fellow angler out anytime!
I completely agree with you Glen. I fish deep cold Canadian Shield spring fed lake trout lakes here in northeastern Ontario for Muskies and they just seem to handle it alot better. My best spots are nice breaks that go from 15-20ft down to 45-60ft. I think it has to do with temperature stability of the water throughout the water column with our cold deep Canadian lakes
I agree, the Canadian shield lakes just fish different than those south of the border. For years most of the authority in the musky world came from the Midwest, outside of guys like Herbie on Eagle. I believe the movement to fishing 'over' deeper water on shield lakes started with some of the most successful guides on Eagle Lake offer the years.
Appreciate the support!
Always an interesting topic. Seems anglers just have to go off their own set of guidelines and decide if what they are doing aligns with an ethical practice given the conditions. As someone else said, huge difference in dragging one up from 35 feet on a jig vs one shooting up on its own will to eat a bait. And you are absolutely correct about livescope not making a difference lol. People just want to find any way to hate on it. Definitely have been surprised at the lack of discussion or scolding for guys trolling in 40 feet, especially as some of those baits are getting pretty far down…
I agree about the lack of concern over trolling over basin fish, I think those anglers always thought the fish were suspended but ffs is proving that fish come from much further down in the water column.
I also believe too many anglers are quick to point a finger at others, while they do essentially the same thing via trolling of without ffs.
Crazy subject and I truly plan to dig deeper into this one during the off season!
There are lots of variables in addition to the depth. Some waterways turn over well and keep temps in a fair range. The top contributors are Larry R. And Pete M. They are speaking about boarder areas between us for comparison. Rivers, lakes, average temps,oxygen levels, and clarity all play a factor in the discussion.
The general practice is for peak temperatures of the body of water. The warmer the surface temps get, the greater the fish will be affected by depth.
Ask anyone who deals with aquatic fish. 1° difference in water temp, or pressure can cause any species to go into shock. Now throw in the energy used during the struggle of being caught.
It's no different than you or I would fly to a region, run out of the airport and jump into a hot bath. It takes time to adjust. Or jump into the cold ocean on a hot day. They family jewels will let you know how long it takes to adjust to the water.
The industry practices are for temps and pressure. Muskie taken from 30' down will be exposed to the environment that is deadly. While this is not concrete proof. Because it depends on each location and day to day.
Canadian waters typically run cooler throughout the year. The oxygen level is also higher. What we practice in shallow rivers won't apply to the great lakes or Canadian waters.
Point is....be aware of temps and conditions. Preserve what we have. Big fish don't grow overnight.
I agree we need to preserve what we have, but I don't agree with social media police trying to tell others what to do, or ridiculing them for posting.
The old timers always have sound advice, but we should be open to accept science on these subjects as well. Appreciate you chiming in!
U could not have said it any better and thats what most people dont realize, they swim away fine at the time but what happens to the fish 20 mins or an hr later can ruin fisherys !
I need to get on he water and practice fishing deep.
Also… I think I’m going to buy a little tikes board to do breakdowns in the cabin with my buddies every night after a day of fishing. I think with a couple cocktails it will be a fun activity. Like Pictionary but with the anguish of missing fish and talking about it.
As you should! You gotta video the Pictionary breakdown with your squad! I'm guessing that would be blooper reel highlights!
Appreciate ask the support Bruce!
Interesting subject for sure. I’ve talked to others that share your experience. I also just watched a Doug Wegner video where he talks about barotrauma and says he has seen it in deep water strikes. I wonder if water temp is a compounding factor?
Also, just curious if you guys are going to get out on Wabigoon at all for a video this year? It’s my favorite lake! :) Love the channel!
We are planning a good video with a good friend real soon!
I trust what Doug has witnessed, I'm a little unsure on actual science of barotrauma and how anglers use the term. I suspect we anglers witness more stress events due to the actual catch, then true barotrauma events.
Looking forward to learning more on this subject over the off season!
My thoughts are that If a fish comes out of deep water let’s say 35’ or so and hits a bait that 7 or 10’ feet down there will be no effects on that fish. Why would there be it came up on its own accord to hit that bait.
However if a fish is 35 to 40’ down and I drop a posideon on its head and it eats it there, then possibly adverse effects to that fish could occur which could be detrimental to its survival. Especially if you bring it up to warm water. I think the thermocline also plays a roll as how deep a musky will go in the summer. If the thermocline sets up at 25’ I doubt barautrama would occur.
I agree, muskies that willingly swim up for a bait are much less affected, but that doesn't account for fish we catch while jigging or sucker rigging in the fall that are hooked in 25'+ of water. Is the cool water the difference maker? I would love to help study some of these subjects, I think some sound science would be great on this.
Thanks for another great video! With shield shield lakes its pretty much unavoidable to catch muskies from the deep. I can hope they're suspended but only fishing the shallows ~10' from shore won't land us a musky just because of how pike infested the area is. That being said, I'd be interested to hear what a biologist has to say on the matter. Now might not be the best time to suggest it, but I'd love to see a jigging tutorial from you guys. Ever get any lake trout by-catch?
I tend to agree, in most cases the Shallow water with generally hold smaller fish, outside of some key times of the year.
Lots of fish sit suspended, but the amount of muskies down at 20+ get woke shock most and seeing them follow trolling baits, coming up from deep water to chase a bait proves the point.
We have caught trout with trolling in the fall.
The jigging topic is something we can cover, certainly not our strong suit.
Very interesting subject. I have never heard of anyone talking about this casting or trolling in 20 foot plus on lake st Clair where i fish. I think people who jig in the Detroit River all catch fish greater than 30 foot but i am not sure. I only cast the lake.
It seems to be a issue in 'areas'. MN it seems to be a real problem or a perceived problem. In Northwestern Ontario it is a social media problem brought on by FFS debate. I would use the jigging bite in the Detroit River as an example of deep water fishing that no one has ever had a moral issue with.
Go jig 30' on Eagle Lake and the online community will be all over you.
It's a subject that will only get more upfront as we focus on different ways to catch muskies. I for one, only hope to share our experience and hope to bring some actual science to the discussion.
Thanks for watching!
Interesting topic. I see it often when perch fishing in Lake Erie but most of these fish are kept for eating.
I wonder if it's a combination of the pressure change while the fish is fighting and under some trauma from defense. Does a release of adrenaline/oxygen, etc. make the difference? It will be interesting to hear from some experts.
It's an interesting topic for sure, and I have a biologist lined up for a YT live stream soon. Looking forward to hearing some of the science behind muskies.
@@54orbust I hear many smallmouth bass die during tournaments when they catch them from 30-50 feet deep. Some people tried "fizzing" them to release the air bladder pressure but it sounded like that wasn't a viable solution. True sports people want to be sure the game fish numbers are around for the next generation so it's a great discussion for sure.
The tournaments and 'fizzing' and/or delayed mortality seems to get buried under the prizes and winning. I've had to do it to walleye in tournaments, now I choose to not enter tournaments.
It's never gonna be perfect but, damn we gotta try to be better.
Interesting....I don't ever worry about depth only Temps but usually when I catch one over deep water I believe the fish is suspended and bait balls are less the 10 feet down. I do not have live scope. So this is a educated guess but any way, in Mn I have never seen a musky with baratroma. I Have seen walleye get it when fishing over 20 feet down jigging. not sure if this helps at all but it's what I noticed.
I love heading others experiences as well, we are all in this together!
We've known for a while now that way more fish than we ever thought are spending time in the 15'-30' foot range.
I'm no biologist, but our experience has never been negative with any catch over a certain depth.
Appreciate you watching!
man i only fish muskies in rivers here in the south of usa that aint all that deep, but ive done alot of deep water fishing for strippers in the salt, the ones in deep water that come up to hit a bait or are suspended dont have a hard time but the ones that you have to go down to the bottom to present a bait really struggle. i suspect muskies are the same way.
You may be correct, I'm not sure how strippers are compared to muskies in the sense of being able to regulate the pressure inside their body. The fact is many muskies hang out in deeper water, and willingly chase a bait upwards, whether its a trolled bait or casted bait. Many, many anglers jig for muskies in rivers and lakes, those are deep water fish. Hoping to have a biologist on soon to help uncover some of the science behind this subject.
Worst case scenario is opposite of what most people think. When the surface is COLDER than 30+ feet down the fish are most likely to die.
The idea of a musky, or any fish for that matter, suffering from barotrauma while swimming under its own power ie not on the end of line is well… 😂
I think there is lots we don't take in account as the vast majority of anglers chase a pic and instant gratification. It's our job, as members of the musky community to help educate others, to the best of our ability.
I don't know the science behind it, but we plan to talk to those who do.
I also agree, all bets are off when you hook a 40 pound fish in the face with 7/0 hooks and power reel her into the net.
Ask we can do is the best we can, always appreciate you tuning in. Much respect 👊
Gret info
Thx Norm, we're gonna circle back to this soon!
They dont' suffer from Barotruama.
I tend to think the science backs that up. The stress is a different matter but I think we can control that a lot more.