Sceptile suffered the most of the physical/special split. They either should’ve gotten more special moves to compensate or even switch the attacking stats so it becomes a physical attacker.
Radical red somewhat fixes this by making Mega Sceptile swap its attack and sp attack stats and gives it the Technician ability. Actually makes Mega Sceptile probably the best non legendary/mega in the game because of the move set it learns on the physical side
@@MichaelMcCloud29listen I love Sceptile the most out of any starter but there is no way it’s the best non legendary mega even with a higher physical attack. 145 base attack is high site but you still need a swords dance to claim Ko’s cuz Leafblade and dragon claw just aren’t strong enough for physical stab. I wish it got tinted lens as an ability so that you could fire off Nuclear powered Leaf storms without fear.
@@newjumpcityjosh9333 it gets scale shot, bullet seed, tons of coverage moves like rock smash/lowsweep, rock tomb, aerial ace and other moves that can be useful like earthquake and drain punch with 1 turn of SW, 2 stabs and any coverage move like earthquake for steels and drainpunch for healing it just OHKO everything in the game in radical red! the fact you could get mega sceptile with most of this before gym 5 was crazy, it was so broken it megastone has been moved to pre victory entrance battle in new update and even without Sw it amazing cause stab bullet seed and scale shot with technician with good rolls can do massive damage and Ohko!
@@newjumpcityjosh9333Even before the stat change initially it had technician boosted Mega Drain, which was boosted to 60BP and I think magical leaf and dragon breath were all useful. But physically double kick, aerial ace, bullet seed, dual chop or scale shot are crazy. There are other busted mons in the game but honestly every playthrough including hardcore mode had Sceptile unbelievably reliable. Bulldoze is another golden coverage move
Hmmmm... as a huge Sceptile lover myself, I find this change more flavorful than practical. I was really underwhelmed by how Sceptile kept being OHKO'ed by Ice attacks that it usually survives with low health, like Kingdra, Sealeo and Tentacruel. In that sense, Dragon type was more of a detriment than a blessing (because usually Sceptile can score two hits and potentially get into Overgrow range on those fights), and it made clear to me that we need to ascertain Sceptile's role as a starter option. I, personally, always saw Sceptile as having that early game clean fight on Roxanne, and then underperforming all the way in the early to mid game until Tate&Liza and all the water filled routes. This is even more noticeable in Emerald, with the double down on Water Boss trainers at the end of the game. In the early game, Grass/Dragon Grovyle really shines, but at the same time I don't really think this is a very warranted change... because it changes the dinamic of Sceptile by sacrificing a little bit of the end game, for the early game. I think you sold me on the Flannery fight, that one does feel fair enough. But the way Grovyle was trumping over Watson felt a bit too much, maybe. I personally think that the major change Sceptile needs is on the moveset: making it so Mega Drain is also learnable by Grovyle is important (and not just fucking Treecko at level 22... who in their right mind thought delaying Treecko's evolution level for such a small power boost was a good idea), and I also love the addition of Dragonbreath as an evolutionary move for Treecko. Even if neither Grovyle or even Sceptile become Dragon type without the Mega, it's a really cool move for this line to have, that also provides it with a nasty 30% chance to paralyze the opponent (Sceptile otherwise gets a wapping ZERO utility moves... which is usually the bread and butter thing of Grass types). Very importantly, thought, I would make Leaf Blade a 90 power move. There's no excuse for Leaf Blade to be such an ass move compared to both Blaziken and Swampert's signature moves, who don't even really need them to begin with, since Blaziken would rather use Flamethrower and Swampert Surf. So, Sceptile, the only one of the Starters dependent on using it's signature move (so it doesn't have to resort to Solarbeam...) is stuck with a 70 power move... that's atrocious. By giving it this power boost, the rest of the changes can also be added upon it. Now, Sceptile can OHKO more easily those pesky Ice Beam carrying water types, and thus, giving it Dragon typing no longer seems like a negative. Like, your Sceptile couldn't OHKO a Sealeo!! How sad is that!? With this simple change, the high risk high reward nature of adding the Dragon type to Sceptile feels much more balanced in the late game, and potentially compensates for the underperforming nature of Grovyle in the early game that I think should stay the same (even with a far better moveset with Mega Drain and Dragonbreath as options).
All good insights, though I will also note that Leaf Blade partly compensates for lower base power with an increased crit rate, though on a pokemon without Focus Energy or a Scope Lens, this really isn't common enough to matter. On the other hand, Muddy Water has a chance to lower accuracy and can hit two targets, and Blaze Kick has a higher crit rate AND can inflict burns, so maybe buffing Leafe Blade could be nice. On the OTHER hand, Leaf Blade has 100% accuracy, Muddy Water and Blaze Kick don't., but I guess if Leaf Blade's only going to have one beneficial boost to it in its higher crit rate whereas the other two signature moves get two each, 100% accuracy's fair.
I also think of 90bp Leaf Blade, and if not too much.. give it Tail Glow (in gen 3 it was only +2 spatk, not +3 yet). Then perheaps more special move options with respectable power.
Have you considered giving Grovyle Twister before Dragon Breath? Dragon Breath inflicting Paralysis is pretty powerful on top of the 60 BP. Twister also has a chance of negating a move via Flinching, but its base power is lower at 40. The only other thing that could be an issue with Twister is that it hits both opponents in a double battle. There are just not a lot of Dragon Type Moves at this point in the series though, so I'm guessing choosing which attacks to give Grovyle wasn't as easy as it seems.
Dragonbreath & Mud Shot & Double Kick all have strengths. Hitting twice breaks subs & bands, lowering speed can create effective 1 hits, & Para is Para Add to it, Fighting & Ground are great offensive types, while Dragon doesn't hit anything effectively besides Dragon (in the E4)
You're on the right track. Dragon-type attacks actually shouldn't receive the same treatment as other types. Specifically, the Neutral-coverage of Dragon-type attacks is massive-only resisted by Steel and untouchable to Fairy. This means a 60-power move is "always 60 power" for almost everything across the board. Giving less power in exchange for guaranteed coverage is "how the attack is balanced". DragonBreath is actually on the "same level" as Dragon Pulse (80-BP), a later-stage move. Giving it early as Smith suggests is like giving outrage out at level 16...
@@Maaarrrrkit would be more than worth the trade off if sceptile also got a stab Draco meteor to fire off, since it has respectable spatk and good speed. If it still had to rely on dragon pulse though it wouldn’t help that much
Dragonbreath is still resisted by Steel while Combusken and Marshtomp have hard counters to Magneton, so that definitely doesn’t put Grovyle too far ahead
while that is sorta true it kinda makes me think that possibly the addition of dragon typing at the very least would open up grovyles movepool just enough for some more useful move variety since dragon types have never shyed away from even learning moves of types they are even weak against! But even if grovyle couldn't learn anything super effective it would at the very least be double resistant to electric typing moves so it would mostly be able to wall any incoming shock waves or thunderbolts.
@@AlldaylongRock Two of the elemental punches sounds like a really solid idea for move tutor possibilities! I was also thinking the grovyle could be able to learn flamethrower by TM since many dragons can. I also have been thinking leech seed may be a small but very good early game move addition to treeko and grovyle since the whole line can learn bullet seed.
Giving Dragon type to Sceptile would definitely make Sceptile more balanced with the other starters. I hope you do Emerald Legacy and expand to other Pokemon games.
Hm, how about Twister at level 16? Thematically it makes sense because it looks like it can create winds circulating its limbs. It's weaker than Mud Shot and might require moving Dragonbreath a little later, sure, but it's also unresisted. Fury cutter is so wack on it dude
Emerald is only perfect to an extent. I feel that it should have been on par with Ruby and Sapphire and even the remakes, at least with the Pokémon the NPC own without having to rely on duplicates. Why the Sinnoh games gave the first two gym leaders three Pokémon is beyond me.
This is always why I liked Blaziken. Blaziken is strong but has its weaknesses. Sceptile always felt weak sauce and Swampert always felt like I could solo half the game with the rest of the team just dedicated to its weaknesses.
I think I heard the story that Sceptile's second type was supposed to be Dark(and the leftover, it is Pursuit in the moveset), but the creators felt the type Dark was so underdeveloped that they decided to abandon this idea.
@@grunkleg.2934 Sure, I am not saying that is 100% truth. It is just a story that I have heard long time ago. But if you see that Gen 3 add just one dark attack, while Gen 4 add 5 more and all with power above 50, then you might think that it was really something going on.
Also, perhaps not Sceptile, but Grovyle has some attitude which we often see in dark type mons. If nothing else I think thematically it fits. My guess would be that they abandoned it because it'd mean Grovyle would be weak to both of Combusken's stab moves.
I would say to be more thematically fitting, give Treecko Bullet Seed as the next early move. To make this change also more on par with the other starters, have Bullet Seeds base power be 20 instead of 10 so it is at least guaranteed to be 40 power at worst.
The issue with that is that you're given bullet seed as soon as you leave petalburg woods. So you effectively get it and quick attack at the same time (when your treeko is probably around level 11-ish)
Given that swampert learns earthquake and blaziken has access to TM Fire blast and overheat, maybe having sceptile learn Outrage at level 55 or so, just in time to get it for the champion or for drake if you farm a bit would be a good idea. You could also give blaziken access to superpower at that level to give the pokemon a strong attack against last elite four and champion so that it doesn't feel that weak there.
Gen 3 is the only gen where i genuinely adore all 3 starters and have used all 3 multiple times in every playthrough. every gen before or since has at least one that either i don't really like or seriously hate, because of evolutions or otherwise
I had a chance to experience something like this when I realized that Treecko has the egg moves Dragonbreath and Crunch, and did a playthrough with one that had those moves. Even mostly avoiding Crunch, Treecko's early game capability skyrocketed, really showing just how much it suffers from its movepool.
It is kinda hilarious, that you showed the effect of the addition of Vine Whip to treeckos moveset in the Roxanne Battle next to a crit absorb and that stating that Vine whip Is a faster way, while the crit dealt as much damage 😂
IKR? Plus it’s been 6 generations and not one starter has a 535 BST since Swampert. Not counting the 534 ones. And starting from Gen 7, all the starters equally have a 530 BST but like to see 534 or 535 again.
I'd personally say giving Grovyle Razor leaf, and Twister, instead of that early Vine whip and Dragon Breath. I agree on giving it Dragonbreath in the early 20's is better. Id say level 6/7= absorb. Level 15= Razor Leaf. And on evolution it learns Twister. Then at 22 or 23 it learns Dragon Breath, then Leaf Blade at 27-29.
I really appreciate you adding the links in the description and explaining how to actually play these ROM hacks. I've wanted to play randomized pokemon games for SOOOOO long and Legacy Crystal was my first, plus it led me to playing through Randomized Emerald and now Randomized Black 2!
@@SquirrelGamingProductions even in gen 3 thats good, energy ball and such didn't exist yet. I recently replayed leafgreen and i gave up on victreebel once i saw its moveset
@@I_Am_Bowi 100%, Leaf Blade could only be learned by Grovyle & was legitimately the only good offensive Grass move until Gen 4 added Energy Ball, Power Whip, Wood Hammer & Seed Flare Poor Meganium didn't get Petal Blizzard until like last Gen, and that should've been its Gen 2 signature
I feel like while vine whip might be thematically appropriate for a 40 base power grass move, it just doesnt work for treecko, since i dont feel it has any vines to whip lol, maybe bump up the power of absorb or give it mega drain sooner?
I find people overvalue dragon types early game as they expect them to be offensive monsters from out the gate. Whereas my argument for early dragons will always be that the defensive qualities of the type are its real strength in the early game, hence why I like to use dratini as a starter mon when playing roms.
Crystal Legacy has somehow made it so even if it's something as trivial as a single pokemon type change, as long as it says "SmithPlaysPokemon" at the channel part I will click.
Changing Absorb to Vine Whip and buffing it is a good change, though I think you could've upped its PP too. Around 25 seems more appropriate for such a weak move. I disagree about raising the learning level of Dragon Breath. I don't think it's that overpowered compared to Double Kick and Mud Shot. Sure, Dragon type has great neutral coverage, but the other starters' secondary STABs are at least as good, arguably better. Ground and Fighting have excellent super-effective coverage, hitting five types each. They're also both physical, meaning they benefit from Roxanne's +10% Attack badge boost too. Finally, Leaf Blade probably should've been buffed to its modern power of 90. It's only fair. The other Hoenn starters' signature moves are already of similar strength with better offensive typings to boot (Grass is resisted by as many types as Water and Fire combined!) and hard-hitting moves are especially important for frail, speedy attackers like Sceptile.
I just finished your Crystal Legacy game and I just wanted to say that I absolutely loved it! Every single gym leader caught me off guard and they often wiped 5 out of my 6 pokemon, whereas normally I'd 1 hit KO every gym leader and Elite Four member in the base Crystal game. And I absolutely loved using Gen II only pokemon. So well done! You created a thoroughly enjoyable experience. Thank you.
Interesting to see a playthrough of fairly vanilla Emerald with a Dragon Sceptile. I think it's not commonly done without a major difficulty shift in the game because everyone assumes it's too strong. It's interesting to see that idea actually put to the test. That said, I always wanted to see Sceptile end up as a Grass/Flying type. Grovyle always felt like it was leaning that way, and I miss those design motifs in Sceptile's designs. (Also, I can't imagine the backlash from Charizard fans if gen 3 Sceptile got the Dragon type when Zard didn't.) Great video. Much enjoyed. ^.^
i always thought another great change for sceptile post gen 3 would be swapping attack and special attack so it can continue to use its "signature move" leaf blade. it should also get the ability sharpness post gen9
Honestly Gen III Sceptile only needs the 90 base attack and then post Gen III should get Dragon Dance which it currently gets now. Which is fair considering that Sceptile has a -5 lower BST than Swampert However I think Gen V and VI could do more for Sceptile if they replaced it’s hidden/Mega ability with something like Technician before reworking it to Sharpness in Gen IX
I think the line shouldn't get the dragon type until sceptile. Unlike fighting and ground, dragons are meant to be rare so it should be a long-awaited reward for getting to the late game
I've always given Sceptile dragon claw, so I feel like this change fits so well. You're really opening up a can of worms with this video stoking desire for an Emerald Legacy!
oh yeah this change is amazing I played through Renegade Platinum with a Sceptile and he had Dragon Typing in that mod and it was amazing once I got him to learn Draco Meteor he was unstoppable after that!
I think you should make Treecko learn Bullet Seed by Level 10 and buff it to 25 BP. This gives it's a unique Starting Grass move and it's know from the anime. Vine whip was on Bulbasaur, Razor Leaf on Chikorita, and repeating the same Starting Grass move seems silly.
Feeling like twister instead of dragon breath at 16 would feel less broken and take advantage of grovyles speed for the stun lock. Dragon typing at 60+stab plus chance to paralyze IS way better than the others. Don't really see the need for the quick attack swap if it gets a dragon move at 16 as well.. Love the content man, just voicing my opinion.
If it was part Dragon, players would have a slightly harder time with Glacia. Other than that, it wouldn't buff Sceptile that much. Maybe a few good coverage and resistance.
Omg, I was inspired by your Crystal Legacy vids and started modding Emerald myself a couple of months ago. I gave drought to Torkoal and Entei and drizzle on poliwrath and raikou and made Maxie and Archie’s teams an evolution of Rain and Sun strategies. Steven’s team is a competitive Sand team with Jirachi, Skarm Metagross Cradily Swampert and TTar
In the ROM hack for Gale of Darkness, Pokémon XG: Next Gen, Sceptile was part Dragon. It could have Lightning Rod as an ability, you could teach it Draco Meteor pretty early, and it had Hidden Power Fire to deal with Ice. The best strategy was to use Substitute, use Giga Drain to get back that HP, use Draco Meteor to hit hard, and pair it with your Manectric that knows Discharge to raise your Special Attack back up.
2:30 We have seen starters that break the 3 type trio. Empoleon is great example where it loses its weakness to grass and it's resistance to fire, at the same time becoming super weak go Infernape's and Torterra's secondary types. On the other hand still having solid coverage in Flying and Ice against both of them. With how weak to Ice Grass/Dragon is, it's a solid trade-off. As both of the other starters keep neutral damage, thanks to the secondary types and both of then also get SE coverage moves either in learnset or through TMs , with Flying and Ice types.
I don't mind it being dragon type, but it absolutely NEEDS to be readjusted to a physical attacker, it was fine as a special in gen 3 without the split, but now its movepool just sucks
I love this addition a lot. Sceptile has always been my favourite Starter and when the Gen 3 remakes were announced I was so hyped to try a new and improved Sceptile with its Mega Evolution. You could imagine my disappointment when the only Dragon move it got via level up in Omega Ruby was Dual Chop, with its Mega's ability being Lightning Rod.
I've always treated the Treeko line as being part dragon, so this works fantastically as a much-needed buff, while preserving the Legacy design philosophy.
Honestly I’m surprised that you didn’t buff Sceptile’s BST to 535 to even it’s match to Swampert but also buff it’s attack stat to 90 to make more use of its physical movepool coverage. Same with giving Sceptile Outrage maybe at level 52 being it’s strongest Gen III move.
If they can put an amazing type like fairy on primarina, there is NOTHING stopping them from giving sceptile the much needed dragon type. Hoping legends unova gives us a dragon regional variant of sceptile!
A physical attacking Sceptile with Grass/Dragon typing, switched Atk/Sp.Atk stats and Sharpness as Hidden Ability (as its arm leafs are extremely sharp) with Leaf Blade, Dragon Claw and other cutting moves as moveset would make for a very engaging sweeper
Think you could also do a hypothetical fix for Serperior in gen5? It has a terrible movepool and performs way worse than the other two through the entire game
Serperior is stuck with a Charmander problem, moreso then just not having a good movepool. half of the gyms just straight counter it, and only Katy Perry and Bobby Flay are countered by the snake.
Oh hey I did that too a while ago in vanilla Emerald and a rom hack I edited a tiny bit myself. Really makes Sceptile a lot more fun to use, so I think this is a good choice, judging from my own experience.
giving grovyle mega drain at lvl16 would be okay I think? Marshtomb and combusken claim a 60 Base Power move in double kick and mud shot (55) while dragon breath is way to strong for gym2. Mega Drain udgrades vine whip with an amazing secondary effect until lvl22 where it can dish out massive unresisted dragon offense. I would rather go as far giving treeko vine whip at 6 and leech seed at 11. So it has more tools to support until it gets dragon breath at 23. (maybe quick attack instead of tackle at 1? Tackle sucks so hard after all)
I don’t recall which hackrom i played that gave me a technician, physical stat adjusted dual chop dragon/grass mega sceptile but that was one of the most fun emerald runs I had in a while.
@@devilrider39000000 nope, it was an emerald rom hack, im inclined to believe it was inclement emerald at an earlier patch but checking documentation on that one currently it seems that sceptile has a custom hidden ability there atm so idk (i could check eventually since i haven't updated mine)
Pretty sure the reason Treeko doesn't get Vine Whip (other than it being a gecko and not having plant matter to whip with) is that it gets Bullet Seed by TM after Petalburg.
@@michaeljohnston6783 It’s not strong enough to make much of a difference though. Bullet Seed only has 10 BP in Gen 3 and over 70% of the time it will be weaker than Vine Whip. Also it’s not a stretch to think that Treecko could use its long tail like a vine.
Sceptile, on the other hand, gets early access to Leaf Blade (Lv. 29), and makes good use of Dragon Claw even without STAB; otherwise, it also gets Earthquake, Aerial Ace, Brick Break, and Return. Unlike Blaziken, though, giving Sceptile the once-per-game Earthquake TM makes more sense, as it doesn't have Fighting STAB that overlaps with it. Sceptile does well with Leaf Blade/Dragon Claw/Earthquake as his three main moves, with maybe False Swipe for catching Legends.
some changes which would effect it in ADV OU: >although its now neutral to fire, Sceptiles bulk probably wouldnt let it handle stab fire blasts or flamethrowers from Moltres or Charizard. However, it would be better against HP fire celebi, or gengar or jirachi fire punch, etc >its now 4x weak to ice, meaning blissey can very easily shut it down, so can many of the teirs bulky waters >it could threaten to OHKO mons like Salamence and flygon >its still walled by steels, but it could run HP Fire for that.
I thought it would be too intrusive the change, but it actually seems right for a change, I used to over level sceptile so that I could use it so giving him that extra power, I would love to see it in Emerald Legacy! Only because seeing this video reminded me of how I felt Sceptile was in power!!
I was considering making this exact change in my romhack updating Drayano's 2009 Fire Red Omega, but Grass/Dragon has a lot of weaknesses Excited to watch this
Honestly been saying this about Sceptile for years. I wouldn’t put it past GameFreak that we might get a Grass/Dragon regional variant of Sceptile in the future since they are bent on giving it access to more Dragon type moves.
This feels like step 1 to an…Emerald Legacy?
Please, for the love of God yes
I hope so...
Pleeease let it be Step 1 towards Emerald Legacy!
I would lose it
If he did, slay
Sceptile suffered the most of the physical/special split. They either should’ve gotten more special moves to compensate or even switch the attacking stats so it becomes a physical attacker.
Radical red somewhat fixes this by making Mega Sceptile swap its attack and sp attack stats and gives it the Technician ability. Actually makes Mega Sceptile probably the best non legendary/mega in the game because of the move set it learns on the physical side
@@MichaelMcCloud29listen I love Sceptile the most out of any starter but there is no way it’s the best non legendary mega even with a higher physical attack. 145 base attack is high site but you still need a swords dance to claim Ko’s cuz Leafblade and dragon claw just aren’t strong enough for physical stab. I wish it got tinted lens as an ability so that you could fire off Nuclear powered Leaf storms without fear.
@@newjumpcityjosh9333 it gets scale shot, bullet seed, tons of coverage moves like rock smash/lowsweep, rock tomb, aerial ace and other moves that can be useful like earthquake and drain punch with 1 turn of SW, 2 stabs and any coverage move like earthquake for steels and drainpunch for healing it just OHKO everything in the game in radical red! the fact you could get mega sceptile with most of this before gym 5 was crazy, it was so broken it megastone has been moved to pre victory entrance battle in new update and even without Sw it amazing cause stab bullet seed and scale shot with technician with good rolls can do massive damage and Ohko!
Yea for ingame that would help so much more i agree.@@Passbyword
@@newjumpcityjosh9333Even before the stat change initially it had technician boosted Mega Drain, which was boosted to 60BP and I think magical leaf and dragon breath were all useful. But physically double kick, aerial ace, bullet seed, dual chop or scale shot are crazy. There are other busted mons in the game but honestly every playthrough including hardcore mode had Sceptile unbelievably reliable. Bulldoze is another golden coverage move
Hmmmm... as a huge Sceptile lover myself, I find this change more flavorful than practical. I was really underwhelmed by how Sceptile kept being OHKO'ed by Ice attacks that it usually survives with low health, like Kingdra, Sealeo and Tentacruel. In that sense, Dragon type was more of a detriment than a blessing (because usually Sceptile can score two hits and potentially get into Overgrow range on those fights), and it made clear to me that we need to ascertain Sceptile's role as a starter option. I, personally, always saw Sceptile as having that early game clean fight on Roxanne, and then underperforming all the way in the early to mid game until Tate&Liza and all the water filled routes. This is even more noticeable in Emerald, with the double down on Water Boss trainers at the end of the game. In the early game, Grass/Dragon Grovyle really shines, but at the same time I don't really think this is a very warranted change... because it changes the dinamic of Sceptile by sacrificing a little bit of the end game, for the early game.
I think you sold me on the Flannery fight, that one does feel fair enough. But the way Grovyle was trumping over Watson felt a bit too much, maybe. I personally think that the major change Sceptile needs is on the moveset: making it so Mega Drain is also learnable by Grovyle is important (and not just fucking Treecko at level 22... who in their right mind thought delaying Treecko's evolution level for such a small power boost was a good idea), and I also love the addition of Dragonbreath as an evolutionary move for Treecko. Even if neither Grovyle or even Sceptile become Dragon type without the Mega, it's a really cool move for this line to have, that also provides it with a nasty 30% chance to paralyze the opponent (Sceptile otherwise gets a wapping ZERO utility moves... which is usually the bread and butter thing of Grass types). Very importantly, thought, I would make Leaf Blade a 90 power move. There's no excuse for Leaf Blade to be such an ass move compared to both Blaziken and Swampert's signature moves, who don't even really need them to begin with, since Blaziken would rather use Flamethrower and Swampert Surf. So, Sceptile, the only one of the Starters dependent on using it's signature move (so it doesn't have to resort to Solarbeam...) is stuck with a 70 power move... that's atrocious.
By giving it this power boost, the rest of the changes can also be added upon it. Now, Sceptile can OHKO more easily those pesky Ice Beam carrying water types, and thus, giving it Dragon typing no longer seems like a negative. Like, your Sceptile couldn't OHKO a Sealeo!! How sad is that!?
With this simple change, the high risk high reward nature of adding the Dragon type to Sceptile feels much more balanced in the late game, and potentially compensates for the underperforming nature of Grovyle in the early game that I think should stay the same (even with a far better moveset with Mega Drain and Dragonbreath as options).
Liking this and leaving this comment so that this makes into Emerald Legacy
All good insights, though I will also note that Leaf Blade partly compensates for lower base power with an increased crit rate, though on a pokemon without Focus Energy or a Scope Lens, this really isn't common enough to matter. On the other hand, Muddy Water has a chance to lower accuracy and can hit two targets, and Blaze Kick has a higher crit rate AND can inflict burns, so maybe buffing Leafe Blade could be nice. On the OTHER hand, Leaf Blade has 100% accuracy, Muddy Water and Blaze Kick don't., but I guess if Leaf Blade's only going to have one beneficial boost to it in its higher crit rate whereas the other two signature moves get two each, 100% accuracy's fair.
I also think of 90bp Leaf Blade, and if not too much.. give it Tail Glow (in gen 3 it was only +2 spatk, not +3 yet). Then perheaps more special move options with respectable power.
I would love an Emerald Legacy… Crystal Legacy is definitive to me.
Have you considered giving Grovyle Twister before Dragon Breath? Dragon Breath inflicting Paralysis is pretty powerful on top of the 60 BP. Twister also has a chance of negating a move via Flinching, but its base power is lower at 40. The only other thing that could be an issue with Twister is that it hits both opponents in a double battle.
There are just not a lot of Dragon Type Moves at this point in the series though, so I'm guessing choosing which attacks to give Grovyle wasn't as easy as it seems.
Dragonbreath & Mud Shot & Double Kick all have strengths. Hitting twice breaks subs & bands, lowering speed can create effective 1 hits, & Para is Para
Add to it, Fighting & Ground are great offensive types, while Dragon doesn't hit anything effectively besides Dragon (in the E4)
You're on the right track. Dragon-type attacks actually shouldn't receive the same treatment as other types. Specifically, the Neutral-coverage of Dragon-type attacks is massive-only resisted by Steel and untouchable to Fairy. This means a 60-power move is "always 60 power" for almost everything across the board. Giving less power in exchange for guaranteed coverage is "how the attack is balanced".
DragonBreath is actually on the "same level" as Dragon Pulse (80-BP), a later-stage move. Giving it early as Smith suggests is like giving outrage out at level 16...
Dragon-typing would give Sceptile its much-needed buff
But at the same time a downfall cause of the x4
@@Maaarrrrkit would be more than worth the trade off if sceptile also got a stab Draco meteor to fire off, since it has respectable spatk and good speed. If it still had to rely on dragon pulse though it wouldn’t help that much
@@Maaarrrrkswampert also has a 4x weakness
@@A.R_69it's to grass, the ass type, ice is the nice type!
@A.R_69 ya but it's a good typing cause of ONE weakness. Grass and dragon have alot of weaknesses
The key takeaway here is that Swampert is really freaking good
Dragonbreath is still resisted by Steel while Combusken and Marshtomp have hard counters to Magneton, so that definitely doesn’t put Grovyle too far ahead
while that is sorta true it kinda makes me think that possibly the addition of dragon typing at the very least would open up grovyles movepool just enough for some more useful move variety since dragon types have never shyed away from even learning moves of types they are even weak against! But even if grovyle couldn't learn anything super effective it would at the very least be double resistant to electric typing moves so it would mostly be able to wall any incoming shock waves or thunderbolts.
Except dragon/grass quad resists electric
@@MrH4ppyBirthdayIce Punch, Fire Punch and Thunder Punch would be fitting.
@@AlldaylongRock Two of the elemental punches sounds like a really solid idea for move tutor possibilities! I was also thinking the grovyle could be able to learn flamethrower by TM since many dragons can.
I also have been thinking leech seed may be a small but very good early game move addition to treeko and grovyle since the whole line can learn bullet seed.
I used to love breeding Treecko with Dragonbreath- just felt very right on it
you what now
Dragon breath and thunder punch were always a must for me
@@Ahi_tuna_I prefer dragon breath an crunch
Giving Dragon type to Sceptile would definitely make Sceptile more balanced with the other starters. I hope you do Emerald Legacy and expand to other Pokemon games.
Hm, how about Twister at level 16? Thematically it makes sense because it looks like it can create winds circulating its limbs. It's weaker than Mud Shot and might require moving Dragonbreath a little later, sure, but it's also unresisted. Fury cutter is so wack on it dude
Playing your Gen 2 Crystal Legacy game, really fun. IS there a chance you would give Emerald the same treatment?
Emerald is almost perfect already besides shallow movepool and no physical and special split
Does it need it?
Emerald has many established ROM hacks that perfect it, whether u want classic, modern, or hardcore gameplay
Probably why he put out this feeler video.
Emerald is only perfect to an extent. I feel that it should have been on par with Ruby and Sapphire and even the remakes, at least with the Pokémon the NPC own without having to rely on duplicates. Why the Sinnoh games gave the first two gym leaders three Pokémon is beyond me.
This is always why I liked Blaziken. Blaziken is strong but has its weaknesses. Sceptile always felt weak sauce and Swampert always felt like I could solo half the game with the rest of the team just dedicated to its weaknesses.
"Gen 3 Sceptile sucks. Here's how i fixed it."
We all know what's coming next lmao
I think I heard the story that Sceptile's second type was supposed to be Dark(and the leftover, it is Pursuit in the moveset), but the creators felt the type Dark was so underdeveloped that they decided to abandon this idea.
Plenty of non-Darks also learn Pursuit, not really the best evidence
@@grunkleg.2934it's just the leftover moveset that would have been a stab move if it had
@@grunkleg.2934 Sure, I am not saying that is 100% truth. It is just a story that I have heard long time ago.
But if you see that Gen 3 add just one dark attack, while Gen 4 add 5 more and all with power above 50, then you might think that it was really something going on.
grass/dark is also an extremely bad type so thank god they scrapped that😭
Also, perhaps not Sceptile, but Grovyle has some attitude which we often see in dark type mons. If nothing else I think thematically it fits. My guess would be that they abandoned it because it'd mean Grovyle would be weak to both of Combusken's stab moves.
I would say to be more thematically fitting, give Treecko Bullet Seed as the next early move. To make this change also more on par with the other starters, have Bullet Seeds base power be 20 instead of 10 so it is at least guaranteed to be 40 power at worst.
The issue with that is that you're given bullet seed as soon as you leave petalburg woods. So you effectively get it and quick attack at the same time (when your treeko is probably around level 11-ish)
Yeah much rather that than vine whip
Oh no, is smith gonna start focussing on gen 3 now and give us a gen 3 remaster 😂
Oh yes
Oh no?
OH YES
Given that swampert learns earthquake and blaziken has access to TM Fire blast and overheat, maybe having sceptile learn Outrage at level 55 or so, just in time to get it for the champion or for drake if you farm a bit would be a good idea.
You could also give blaziken access to superpower at that level to give the pokemon a strong attack against last elite four and champion so that it doesn't feel that weak there.
Outrage needs to be changed too in this case, because it had only 90 base power in gen 3 with all the drawbacks it has now.
Sequel in "What if Charizard and Gyarados were Dragon in Gen 1?"
Charizard would have been broken and Gyarados an invincible wall.
@@RandalfElVikingo Charizard would still be weak to Ice moves because Fire didn't resist Ice yet, along with a new Ground weakness. That's hurt a lot.
@@RandalfElVikingo and? They deserve it
Also you cant forget that there arent any good dragon moves in gen 1...... only dragon rage
Gen 3 is the only gen where i genuinely adore all 3 starters and have used all 3 multiple times in every playthrough. every gen before or since has at least one that either i don't really like or seriously hate, because of evolutions or otherwise
I had a chance to experience something like this when I realized that Treecko has the egg moves Dragonbreath and Crunch, and did a playthrough with one that had those moves. Even mostly avoiding Crunch, Treecko's early game capability skyrocketed, really showing just how much it suffers from its movepool.
It is kinda hilarious, that you showed the effect of the addition of Vine Whip to treeckos moveset in the Roxanne Battle next to a crit absorb and that stating that Vine whip Is a faster way, while the crit dealt as much damage 😂
Twister should be added in the move pool before Dragonbreath.
Also, the 3rd stage of the starters should have all 535 base stats, not only Swampert...
Swampert supremacy forever.
IKR? Plus it’s been 6 generations and not one starter has a 535 BST since Swampert. Not counting the 534 ones. And starting from Gen 7, all the starters equally have a 530 BST but like to see 534 or 535 again.
I second this. Dragonbreath is too powerful for early game, make it learn the move later
@@MysticGohanVegetahardly
Even if it’s not a complete overhaul I would LOVE more small fixes for Emerald
I'd personally say giving Grovyle Razor leaf, and Twister, instead of that early Vine whip and Dragon Breath.
I agree on giving it Dragonbreath in the early 20's is better.
Id say level 6/7= absorb. Level 15= Razor Leaf. And on evolution it learns Twister. Then at 22 or 23 it learns Dragon Breath, then Leaf Blade at 27-29.
Why would 20s be better? Both of the other starters get good 60/55 power stabs at 16, far better than dragon
This. This right here.
I really appreciate you adding the links in the description and explaining how to actually play these ROM hacks. I've wanted to play randomized pokemon games for SOOOOO long and Legacy Crystal was my first, plus it led me to playing through Randomized Emerald and now Randomized Black 2!
Level 7 Chikorita: Razor Leaf, once the best grass move by a long shot
Level 28 Grovyle: The best I can do is bUlLeT sEed
LMAOOO
It's actually sad that 55 BP with high crit was legitimately the best move a Grass-type could get in Gen 2
@@SquirrelGamingProductions even in gen 3 thats good, energy ball and such didn't exist yet. I recently replayed leafgreen and i gave up on victreebel once i saw its moveset
@@I_Am_Bowi 100%, Leaf Blade could only be learned by Grovyle & was legitimately the only good offensive Grass move until Gen 4 added Energy Ball, Power Whip, Wood Hammer & Seed Flare
Poor Meganium didn't get Petal Blizzard until like last Gen, and that should've been its Gen 2 signature
I’ve always loved Sceptile so seeing it actually work is amazing. Also big fan of the music choices
I feel like while vine whip might be thematically appropriate for a 40 base power grass move, it just doesnt work for treecko, since i dont feel it has any vines to whip lol, maybe bump up the power of absorb or give it mega drain sooner?
I find people overvalue dragon types early game as they expect them to be offensive monsters from out the gate. Whereas my argument for early dragons will always be that the defensive qualities of the type are its real strength in the early game, hence why I like to use dratini as a starter mon when playing roms.
Crystal Legacy has somehow made it so even if it's something as trivial as a single pokemon type change, as long as it says "SmithPlaysPokemon" at the channel part I will click.
MY GUY!!
Really hope this builds up into an Emerald Legacy at some point! Crystal Legacy has been a joy to play!
Changing Absorb to Vine Whip and buffing it is a good change, though I think you could've upped its PP too. Around 25 seems more appropriate for such a weak move.
I disagree about raising the learning level of Dragon Breath. I don't think it's that overpowered compared to Double Kick and Mud Shot. Sure, Dragon type has great neutral coverage, but the other starters' secondary STABs are at least as good, arguably better. Ground and Fighting have excellent super-effective coverage, hitting five types each. They're also both physical, meaning they benefit from Roxanne's +10% Attack badge boost too.
Finally, Leaf Blade probably should've been buffed to its modern power of 90. It's only fair. The other Hoenn starters' signature moves are already of similar strength with better offensive typings to boot (Grass is resisted by as many types as Water and Fire combined!) and hard-hitting moves are especially important for frail, speedy attackers like Sceptile.
I just finished your Crystal Legacy game and I just wanted to say that I absolutely loved it! Every single gym leader caught me off guard and they often wiped 5 out of my 6 pokemon, whereas normally I'd 1 hit KO every gym leader and Elite Four member in the base Crystal game. And I absolutely loved using Gen II only pokemon. So well done! You created a thoroughly enjoyable experience. Thank you.
SO glad you liked it!!!
Interesting to see a playthrough of fairly vanilla Emerald with a Dragon Sceptile. I think it's not commonly done without a major difficulty shift in the game because everyone assumes it's too strong. It's interesting to see that idea actually put to the test.
That said, I always wanted to see Sceptile end up as a Grass/Flying type. Grovyle always felt like it was leaning that way, and I miss those design motifs in Sceptile's designs. (Also, I can't imagine the backlash from Charizard fans if gen 3 Sceptile got the Dragon type when Zard didn't.)
Great video. Much enjoyed. ^.^
If there are people saying Dragon/Grass type is op
Keep in mind Marshtomps only weakness is Grass type
And there is no Grass type specialist in the whole game.
i always thought another great change for sceptile post gen 3 would be swapping attack and special attack so it can continue to use its "signature move" leaf blade. it should also get the ability sharpness post gen9
Honestly Gen III Sceptile only needs the 90 base attack and then post Gen III should get Dragon Dance which it currently gets now. Which is fair considering that Sceptile has a -5 lower BST than Swampert
However I think Gen V and VI could do more for Sceptile if they replaced it’s hidden/Mega ability with something like Technician before reworking it to Sharpness in Gen IX
Me: "Wow, with releasing Crystal Legacy this channel's legacy is secure."
Smith: (laughs in Advance)
Very well deserved buff to Sceptile. If he had this buff back in the day he would’ve been far more popular.
I think the line shouldn't get the dragon type until sceptile. Unlike fighting and ground, dragons are meant to be rare so it should be a long-awaited reward for getting to the late game
Pokemon game: exists
SmithPlays Pokémon: I can fix it
The is a theory that this line was always supposed to be a dragon but they scrapped last minute.
I've always given Sceptile dragon claw, so I feel like this change fits so well.
You're really opening up a can of worms with this video stoking desire for an Emerald Legacy!
oh yeah this change is amazing I played through Renegade Platinum with a Sceptile and he had Dragon Typing in that mod and it was amazing once I got him to learn Draco Meteor he was unstoppable after that!
I think you should make Treecko learn Bullet Seed by Level 10 and buff it to 25 BP. This gives it's a unique Starting Grass move and it's know from the anime. Vine whip was on Bulbasaur, Razor Leaf on Chikorita, and repeating the same Starting Grass move seems silly.
Feeling like twister instead of dragon breath at 16 would feel less broken and take advantage of grovyles speed for the stun lock. Dragon typing at 60+stab plus chance to paralyze IS way better than the others. Don't really see the need for the quick attack swap if it gets a dragon move at 16 as well.. Love the content man, just voicing my opinion.
If it was part Dragon, players would have a slightly harder time with Glacia. Other than that, it wouldn't buff Sceptile that much. Maybe a few good coverage and resistance.
Omg, I was inspired by your Crystal Legacy vids and started modding Emerald myself a couple of months ago. I gave drought to Torkoal and Entei and drizzle on poliwrath and raikou and made Maxie and Archie’s teams an evolution of Rain and Sun strategies. Steven’s team is a competitive Sand team with Jirachi, Skarm Metagross Cradily Swampert and TTar
I always felt the dark type fit very well and interacted with the other two secondary types well
Emerald Legacy’s coming boys
In the ROM hack for Gale of Darkness, Pokémon XG: Next Gen, Sceptile was part Dragon. It could have Lightning Rod as an ability, you could teach it Draco Meteor pretty early, and it had Hidden Power Fire to deal with Ice. The best strategy was to use Substitute, use Giga Drain to get back that HP, use Draco Meteor to hit hard, and pair it with your Manectric that knows Discharge to raise your Special Attack back up.
I always thought Sceptile should be part dark type but because they introduced Cacturne and Shiftry in Gen 3 they left it solo Grass.
I like this type of video branching out into other games with the same flavor as your Crystal Legacy videos
Thanks so much for giving the link to the Rom, I can't wait to play! 🦎
2:30 We have seen starters that break the 3 type trio. Empoleon is great example where it loses its weakness to grass and it's resistance to fire, at the same time becoming super weak go Infernape's and Torterra's secondary types. On the other hand still having solid coverage in Flying and Ice against both of them. With how weak to Ice Grass/Dragon is, it's a solid trade-off. As both of the other starters keep neutral damage, thanks to the secondary types and both of then also get SE coverage moves either in learnset or through TMs , with Flying and Ice types.
TM 51: Brick
Type: Fighting
Base Power: 60
PP: 20
Hurl a brick at the defending Pokemon. May cause Confusion. Where did you get a brick?!
😎
I've always loved sceptile, because of false swipe. I'm that guy who has to catch every new Pokemon and this just makes it so easy for me.
I don't mind it being dragon type, but it absolutely NEEDS to be readjusted to a physical attacker, it was fine as a special in gen 3 without the split, but now its movepool just sucks
Welp now we have 3 OP starters.
Did you watch the video? Sceptile was just made more consistent, not OP
Yeah, but the 3 starters are still really good now, with good dual typings and solid matchups along the region@@AugmentalGameplay
Hoenn Reimagined incoming
i actually love this. sceptile always felt lacking without the dragon typing. gen 3 grass moves are just recovery types
I love this addition a lot. Sceptile has always been my favourite Starter and when the Gen 3 remakes were announced I was so hyped to try a new and improved Sceptile with its Mega Evolution. You could imagine my disappointment when the only Dragon move it got via level up in Omega Ruby was Dual Chop, with its Mega's ability being Lightning Rod.
I feel like teaching Sceptile Dragon Claw was sort of a default move in Emerald but maybe that was just me
Pretty good, but I still waiting for update post-game plot for Crystal Legacy
I've always treated the Treeko line as being part dragon, so this works fantastically as a much-needed buff, while preserving the Legacy design philosophy.
Honestly I’m surprised that you didn’t buff Sceptile’s BST to 535 to even it’s match to Swampert but also buff it’s attack stat to 90 to make more use of its physical movepool coverage. Same with giving Sceptile Outrage maybe at level 52 being it’s strongest Gen III move.
115k subs is far too low for someone as interesting and talented as you
If they can put an amazing type like fairy on primarina, there is NOTHING stopping them from giving sceptile the much needed dragon type. Hoping legends unova gives us a dragon regional variant of sceptile!
0:38 Blaziken isnt the first Fire/fighting type. That is Combusken. First line, sure but that isnt what u said. I am just messing around
The treecko line is my all time favorite and ive always felt like it had been done dirty, thank you for this
A physical attacking Sceptile with Grass/Dragon typing, switched Atk/Sp.Atk stats and Sharpness as Hidden Ability (as its arm leafs are extremely sharp) with Leaf Blade, Dragon Claw and other cutting moves as moveset would make for a very engaging sweeper
Let’s give it 670 base stats while we’re at it🥰
Think you could also do a hypothetical fix for Serperior in gen5? It has a terrible movepool and performs way worse than the other two through the entire game
Serperior is stuck with a Charmander problem, moreso then just not having a good movepool. half of the gyms just straight counter it, and only Katy Perry and Bobby Flay are countered by the snake.
Oh my god. It's time for Emerald Legacy
I remember when I wrote that Blastoise should be Dragon for the same reason and some guy wanted to bite off my head. Be careful.
I remember I said Charizard should be Fire/Dragon for a Legends game (a game with no rival battles) and people still flipped out.
Oh hey I did that too a while ago in vanilla Emerald and a rom hack I edited a tiny bit myself. Really makes Sceptile a lot more fun to use, so I think this is a good choice, judging from my own experience.
As a time traveler i am very pleased to see the timeline going the correct way to Legacy Emerald
giving grovyle mega drain at lvl16 would be okay I think? Marshtomb and combusken claim a 60 Base Power move in double kick and mud shot (55) while dragon breath is way to strong for gym2. Mega Drain udgrades vine whip with an amazing secondary effect until lvl22 where it can dish out massive unresisted dragon offense. I would rather go as far giving treeko vine whip at 6 and leech seed at 11. So it has more tools to support until it gets dragon breath at 23. (maybe quick attack instead of tackle at 1? Tackle sucks so hard after all)
If Sceptile is going to be Grass/Dragon he deserves an Ability to address his extreme weaknesses. (low stats, bad typing, etc).
Unburden is a gimmick.
I don’t recall which hackrom i played that gave me a technician, physical stat adjusted dual chop dragon/grass mega sceptile but that was one of the most fun emerald runs I had in a while.
Renegade Platinum?
@@devilrider39000000 nope, it was an emerald rom hack, im inclined to believe it was inclement emerald at an earlier patch but checking documentation on that one currently it seems that sceptile has a custom hidden ability there atm so idk (i could check eventually since i haven't updated mine)
maybe theta emerald EX, i cant seem to find documentation for that one anymore tho
Feeling like this is the start of Emerald Legacy, I'm watching this again for promotion of the video to others!
Wow haven’t seen you since 2016 bo3 days. Cool to see you doing Pokémon!
Pretty sure the reason Treeko doesn't get Vine Whip (other than it being a gecko and not having plant matter to whip with) is that it gets Bullet Seed by TM after Petalburg.
Bulletseed sucks tho
Bullet Seed is not great by any means, but it's weird to complain that Absorb isn't strong enough while ignoring the stronger move you're given.
@@michaeljohnston6783 It’s not strong enough to make much of a difference though. Bullet Seed only has 10 BP in Gen 3 and over 70% of the time it will be weaker than Vine Whip. Also it’s not a stretch to think that Treecko could use its long tail like a vine.
Sceptile, on the other hand, gets early access to Leaf Blade (Lv. 29), and makes good use of Dragon Claw even without STAB; otherwise, it also gets Earthquake, Aerial Ace, Brick Break, and Return. Unlike Blaziken, though, giving Sceptile the once-per-game Earthquake TM makes more sense, as it doesn't have Fighting STAB that overlaps with it.
Sceptile does well with Leaf Blade/Dragon Claw/Earthquake as his three main moves, with maybe False Swipe for catching Legends.
I feel like a better nerf for grovile would be to replace dragon breath with twister
As a kid I always thought Dark would fit treeko. With being a sneaky fast forest lizard.
I think giving Dragon to Sceptile isn't as busted as people think due to how bad this type is on the defensive end
If this was in ORAS I feel like the difference would be way more noticable too.
Dragon isn't bad defensively pre-Gen 6
@@rjante2236 It's not... But it doesn't pair well with Grass
@@BardockSkywalker Yeah, it's really only good for Fire type matchups..
@@rjante2236 Which even then, it doesn’t matter since Sceptile is already really frail
some changes which would effect it in ADV OU:
>although its now neutral to fire, Sceptiles bulk probably wouldnt let it handle stab fire blasts or flamethrowers from Moltres or Charizard. However, it would be better against HP fire celebi, or gengar or jirachi fire punch, etc
>its now 4x weak to ice, meaning blissey can very easily shut it down, so can many of the teirs bulky waters
>it could threaten to OHKO mons like Salamence and flygon
>its still walled by steels, but it could run HP Fire for that.
I thought it would be too intrusive the change, but it actually seems right for a change, I used to over level sceptile so that I could use it so giving him that extra power, I would love to see it in Emerald Legacy! Only because seeing this video reminded me of how I felt Sceptile was in power!!
I was skeptical but you have proved me wrong. Thank you sir
Swampert being the fav child as always.
The mediocre grass type really balances out the powerful dragon type
I would be down is this was real
Emerald Legacy! thanks for adding the download link, need more youtubers to do this
I want this man to fix every single game in the franchise
Sadly he doesn!t rewrite the plot and characters
@@kriiistofel he quite literally did in crystal legacy
I was considering making this exact change in my romhack updating Drayano's 2009 Fire Red Omega, but Grass/Dragon has a lot of weaknesses
Excited to watch this
God yes finally not Gen 2 thank you Patrick 😭😭😭
Don't forget that DragonBreath has a high-ish chance to paralyze.
I am loving Crystal Legacy. Emerald Legacy would be great!
Smith: Treecko is bad.
Treecko Fans: News to us.
Honestly been saying this about Sceptile for years. I wouldn’t put it past GameFreak that we might get a Grass/Dragon regional variant of Sceptile in the future since they are bent on giving it access to more Dragon type moves.
Oh god i sincerely hope that this escalates into Emerald Legacy. Begging you to give poor Skitty and Delcatty the stats a STONE EVOLUTION should have.