37:05 There could be a problem, fundamental to all bed slingers - plastic isn't infinitely stiff. When your build plate flies around at mach 3, the printed object starts bending and oscillating as it follows. I don't think it's the whole story here, but could be one of the causes.
Consider using the Kalico klipper fork that implements mpc "model predictive control" for the temperature that should fix your temperature problems for your speed
It would be interesting to see it printing while filmed with a thermal camera. It should tell where it cools Edit: Btw, love this series of discovery, where you push the boundaries. And loved the intro.
True, but I doubt he really cares for this Projects. I don't think having micron-precision, or even millimeter-precision corners is really a concern here.
I'm not saying it's the problem you experienced but don't assume a vacuum sealed thing of filament is actually dry. I've had quite a few of them that were wet right out of the bag.
@@strantor i would guess he has one, but looking at the mounting option right now i would assume he wont be able to fit it there or maybe he also doesnt have one with space for 4 spools, either way i think we will see it in the next video
Seeing him jump around between the absolute basics (like that one of the sides of an object being bad indicates asymmetric cooling) to absurdly advanced stuff, like the standing waves in the wires, is wildly entertaining.
I am sure you have thought of this, but you should start with a speed where the print is perfect first. Then speed it up and troubleshoot anomalies as they appear until you cant solve any anomalies. There is a physical limit to how fast you can process materials. How fast you can print doesn't mean anything if the integrity and function of the printed part becomes useless.
Seems pretty clear this is competing for one thing only: World SpeedBenchy records. There are tons of "quality at speed" projects out there (VzBot et al), but this thing is meant to push out a Benchy-shaped object as fast as possible without care for aesthetics or structure.
I still think it should have a stationary bed, use those cables to move the extruder. Even input shaping and pressure advance aren't going to prevent your plastic model from flexing the way you're shaking it.
I havent seen this one before. There was also no entry on the annex spreadsheet and there are no info on the g-code aswell as some shots of the finished benchy. But we'll pass that number in the next episode ;)
This thing is awesome! Do you think using the coolant those canned air dusters use would work? You would have to avoid the ones that are just R134a but a lot of them use R152a now. I guess R152a doesn't do anything the ozone and only stays in the atmosphere for a year and half or so. What I'm asking is, could you use a lot less flow/force if you basically used tiny nozzles (maybe plastic taper type luer lock nozzles? easy to change and lots of sizes, my favorite for air are the pink 20g ones) then had the container of the r152a upside down and sprayed a little liquid onto the print? It might give you both faze change and liquid cooling but dissipate/dry very rapidly, so you might be able to get away with way less flow overall. Im not sure if r152a is the best choice, but maybe something in that vein? I think CO2 would be ab it tricky, but maybe something like that? Maybe it wouldn't work so well though because of the leidenfrost effect thing? Another thing I've wondered, would it make sense to print super thin layers at even higher speeds? I always thought it would be neat to get high speeds at fine resolution, but in your case the thinner layers might cool better? Anyway, keep it up! I love this crazy contraption you've built and can't wait to see how far you can push it! Edit: OOH! What material do you think will be best for this? I remember hearing something about ABS flowing better, and it does seem to firm up faster when excessive cooling is used, though I don't see it surviving that kind of movement with high cooling... Edit 2: Is dynema better than other fibers like kevlar? I thought it stretched or had some elasticity? Or am I thinking of something else?
When seeing your extruder problem, i realized you may want to add a "rotation counter" on all for spools, you can zero them on every run or at each day and then it will allow you to see after multiple runs/tests if the extruders extrude differently. Maybe a simple, yet usefull information when continueing your troubleshoot. Besides that, awesome machine!
IDK about nitrogen. The stuff has the wired ability to make everything it gets into contact with Brittle, and may just be too cold, as it may cool the entire area around the nozzle. But cooler air with less pressure (even if just to stop that extruded filament from being deposited a bit off) is probably a good idea, at least judging from my very limited knowledge..
@@jkr9594 I was 3d printing "train cart" from PETG for superconductors (superconductors inserted into the hole during printing) it survived 120+ cycles of going from +30 deg C dropped directly into liquid nitrogen till cooled and then up from LN to +30 deg C. It was designed that it hold some nitrogen inside with double walls printed around as isolation. EDIT I forget point. It was not that brittle. Also he can use copper tubes submerged in LN with air going through it. Similar as alcohol is distilled.
you should put some work into ducting for the cooling, CFD simulations , getting laminar flow right below the nozzle tip, 360 degree cooling and or orienting the object so the beak gets the most cooling
You definitely need a high speed camera for this work. I think you will make lots of progress with the ability to see what's going on in ultra slow motion. Great work, and a facinating video. We are all loving this kind of research.
Great intro! Hope you enjoy your vacation and I’m excited about the next episode this system seems to have a lot of promise! I’d agree with some of the other comments here that starting with some slower runs where the benchy is good quality and then tweaking the settings from there could be beneficial. Especially when you talk about this being such a unique motion system. Starting out at such high speeds and low quality benchys may be hurting you some in that regard, but I know you’ve already ran some longer benchys in previous videos. With that said you know way more than me about this system. Really enjoying the videos!
Thank you for your input. I'm aware that I'm not going the 100% proper way. But I'm also doing that for video content. Finding a balance between proper engineering ground work and the occasional skipping of steps is key here ;)
Sick! I was amazed by the speed of commercial printers now.. and now you guys are beating physics at another level by completely rethinking everything..
just a advice here i think your cooling should be 360° to not send the air just in one direction but rather downwards and spread uniformaly into the part i think you will have better cooling overhall cause we saw that you are getting better print quality where the part is turned to the cooling pins, also the ropes/cords is not better instead use belts even larger belts htan the 6mm and just one fixation point like more a round toolhead mount but for your bed or maybe a cross gantry but is just my opinion hope it helps. Continue the good work btw your toolhead is somenthing genius, you will change the 3d printing world.
Keep rockingan, great job! We're eager to see you pushing and finding the limits in everything, hopefully you'll drive innovations to Comercial 3dprinters
Man I love this channel, I've started watching since the first minute man episode. I can't help but think that having your cooling go around 360 would be better, but I'm not an engineer so who knows.
Impressive! I'm intrigued by the ability to keep the part on the build plate. How many Gs is the Benchy experiencing during infill with the abrupt 180-degree change in direction?
the squeak seems to be just the harmonics of the part, i've seen similar with machined metal parts. i would suggest trying a dry graphite lube. something to consider the frequency correction graph will change as the weight or the platform / printed part gets heavier.
I also recently had issues with plastic resonance. I 3d printed a "ballnut" (antiballnut) out of polymax PC. It made the most obnoxious screeching on the ballscrew. Graphite lube was my first answer too. I tried dusting the powder inside the nut and onto the screw, no change. I tried spraying dry graphite lube spray on the screw, no change. Dry moly lube, same. What ended up working was fluid silicone lube. Safe for plastics and actually works. But in this case might load down the printbed? Not sure.
You want to cool the filament *after* it has stuck to the previous layer, not as it comes out of the nozzle because it needs to be hot there and then cool as the nozzle moves on.
This is one of the most important cooling practices. It seems most people are trying to cool the nozzle, when you must cool the part 'after' the filament has been laid.
I agree, the current cooling system is so violent that it blows the still soft model out below the extruder and it prints in mid air. I think it's more important to cool the whole model, to make it rigid and allow new layers to stick properly.
The nozzle changes direction, so you can't just follow the cooling behind the nozzle in the path. All you can do is point it slightly below the nozzle, which is what he's doing
@@polycrystallinecandy many fast printers have fans at the side of the build platform to provide cooling to the whole model. The nozzle is above that airflow. Considering how much the model shakes around here, getting it cooled as quickly as possible seems very important.
@@TheLordNemesis those printers have a vertically moving bed and a fixed-height toolhead gantry. The toolhead here moves vertically, so a fixed-height airflow from the side won't cut it. The airflow needs to move up with the nozzle, which is exactly what is happening here. Watch the episode where he works on the cooling system.
Just a random idea I had when you talked about tried and proven systems: Have you considered using regular timing belts instead of strings? If you orient the motors upright with vertical belts, that could work. No idlers, just 270° around the motor pulley and then a spring to take the slack?
Might be prone to skipping teeth I imagine, especially when the spring is not tight enough. If the pulley is large enough the belt could be fixed to it. Or run it around the back like the current rope solution.
@TheLordNemesis I would expect pulleys as large as the ones he's using, to not skip easily. I mean that would be what, like a 80t or 100t GT2 pulley? I think the belts are a great idea.
he could also then add a tensioner pulley in the back portion that was already having free length issues. Would cut down on the free length, and give him better control over the tension of the belt
Can you turn the motor vertical? so the drive pulleys would also be able to be used to to change the direction and remove the need for the small idle pulleys at the corners?
how much will input shaping be effected by the increasing weight of the benchy being printed? With how light everything is in this setup, I'd imagine the benchy might affect the resonance of the setup slightly.
My guess is that pressure advance is still way too low with that extruder! With a slow MK4 I managed to print TPU at pla speeds, with a PA of 1. Yes, 1! I'm guessing that with that long of a melt zone your value is gonna be similar, try to experiment with crazy high numbers! Do another coarse test from like 0.7 to 1.5 or something, some results are gonna look terrible and your extruder motors are gonna work hard, but my guess is there. Maybe even higher! At 35:16 you can still see a huge hole on the side of the benchy, signaling that it's way too low, ot way too high. My guess is low :D Run the PA tests at a speed and acceleration close to what you want to use, as those are factors too that influence PA. But I'm just at half of the video, so maybe you address it later or it's something else entirely. See you in half an hour with an update to the comment lol
I can tell that I used 0.4 in a brute force approach. Was way worse. Right now I do think this system needs a pretty low value. But I need more seat time to differentiate the problems one by one and then finetune everything
Over an hour of awesome testing, speedy printing and actual good information on input shaper and pressure advance. The Next Layer is going to love how long this one is, NOT. can you edit this one down into 68 shorts for him ?
Congratulations on the WR! Here se of my random thoughts while watching 32:04 at least the very good news is that the printer has survived 😂 34:50 that happened just as I admired the benchy sticking so well with 40G of acceleration 😂 52:08 looks like our dear benchy hit an underwater object, there's art in these results
May be get rid of the springs tensionning the cables, since they bring a low frequency resonance. Have only one motor for each axes X and Y, and a circuit to bring the other end of the cable on the opposite side. Use a turnbuckle to set the tension without adding springiness, yes it will add some inertia, but this could be compensated by the fact that you got rid of one motor. As for the cooling, I would also try to have the needles facing each other, resulting in a turbulent flow where the jets are meeting, and avoiding the soft plastic to be blown sideways with high pressures on a single side. Anyway, very fun project, even if; as other comments, I would start at a speed where the benchy is still decent (acceptable), solve the problems, and then increase the speed.
look into blunt luer lock cannula. you can get them in multiple Guages so you can direct higher flow lower velocity cooling directly and high pressure lower flow heads on the sides to take advantage of the coandra effect to increase air turnover. might make sense to actively cool the air, or, use a volatile like liquid nitrogen or propane to create the flow.
Use a smaller nozzle opening, constricting the flow seems counterintuitive but then cooling will become less of an issue and moving mass as the material is pulled away at speed will cause fewer issues. And temp 195
Like any project on it’s early stages need to be refined but it’s the begging of one of the most impressive printing process, for shire this would redefining 3d printing, and all we can say in a near future “do you remember when we used to wait hours four our printed items? Oh it was long a go”
Hello there! If the cables at their resonant frequencys are forced not to move, doesn't it just reroute the energy into the next conected, possibly movable part e.g. the bed with the accelerometer on it? And If so (now really just uneducatedly spekulating), could some mount the corner bearings routing the cables on a sort of e.g. a metal stick that it stiff at normal but has a resonant frequenzy just like the cables, so is able to absorb the ringing by damping the inertia?
You may need to rethink your XY movement system. Moving the print bed that fast may be whats holding it back, although how you'd move the extruder as quickly is a different issue. Breaking it up into moving parts would entail a whole host of problems
If the 'spokes' on your nylon pulleys were angled fins like propeller blades, would they push and pull air through the pulley to help cool the nylon pulley at the cost of 'negligible' drag?
You need a slow motion camera. It will show you what you need to know. Run the resulting video through a computer vision structural displacements application and it will show you what's going wrong.
Looking at some of the other record benchys, I wonder if your extruder setup is to long, as some of those are using commercial printer hotends to get under 3 mins. I alsmost wonder if a dual extruder mixer would be just as effective for the flow needed, and would lessen the impact of the extruders mismatching
If you played the first 2 minutes of this video and then the "rockwell retro encabulator" video; i dont think most people would be able to differentiate the two.
I am thinking that maybe the air needles are creating the problem I would think something more high flow low pressure would be better to get your cooling so the filament isn't getting blown around. What about trying a tip in the same setup you have just a lot large outlet hole?
For the cooling I was thinking you may be able to put a small pressure tank in a box with dry ice. Could be a very easy way to pre-chill some air. Should be able to leave it hooked to the compressor, maybe put a couple loops of metal tube on the input to make sure warmer air from the compressor doesn't change the tank temp. This sounds safe to my non-expert brain so long as the dry ice isn't actually touching the tank. Liquid nitrogen doing this sounds dangerous to me as that much chilling of the steel could cause unexpected breakages of a pressurized tank? Again I don't actually know how extreme low temperatures affect steel beyond the broad part that it gets brittle
That intro is perfect. How many takes did it take to complete without bursting into laughter?
I was half expecting her to address the issue of hydrocoptic marzel vanes that these retro-encabulator based designs frequently have
@@kurtmueller2089 it needs a SOC drawer!
@@kurtmueller2089 Rockwell Retro Encabulator :D
it's almost perfect, wuld have been better with Labcoat and Safety glasses 😢😂
i think you need chilled air with less velocity. And it wont blow the plastic away. also a hight speed camera for troubleshooting.
Yeah, high-speed camera for sure!! :)
Chilled air sounds good to me.
Peltier; hot end on the hotend - cold end cooling >:D
A vortex nozzle is what I would go for. Produces two streams of hot and cold air. Reject hot stream and only use cold stream
Maybe try a MQL Mist lubricator with Ethanol or water for evaporative cooling. I dont know how the Plastic behaves to that but could be worth a try
The Turboencabulator intro, re-written to actually be true is brilliant. (And I loved "and a weigh class typically reserved for forklifts")
37:05
There could be a problem, fundamental to all bed slingers - plastic isn't infinitely stiff. When your build plate flies around at mach 3, the printed object starts bending and oscillating as it follows. I don't think it's the whole story here, but could be one of the causes.
Your first accidental Benchy is basically the printer spitting some filament on the plate, burping and then shouting BENCHY!
Aerospace grade granite was where I lost it.
Consider using the Kalico klipper fork that implements mpc "model predictive control" for the temperature that should fix your temperature problems for your speed
Dont use kalico use danger klipper
@@its_dhazardous you do know, that danger klipper was renamed into kalico, do you?
@spectermk1 WHAT i take a break from 3dp for 2mo and this is how i find out 💀💀💀 carry on, ignore my ignorance hahaha
It would be interesting to see it printing while filmed with a thermal camera. It should tell where it cools
Edit: Btw, love this series of discovery, where you push the boundaries. And loved the intro.
Great suggestion. A high speed camera would also help a lot.
High speed thermal is something likely near impossible to get your hands on sadly.
@@MoonWind32690 I think they mean a combo of a thermal camera and high speed camera.
The resonance graphs are so broad that input shaping is going to be severely rounding your corners at the insane accelerations you're running.
True, but I doubt he really cares for this Projects. I don't think having micron-precision, or even millimeter-precision corners is really a concern here.
I'm not saying it's the problem you experienced but don't assume a vacuum sealed thing of filament is actually dry. I've had quite a few of them that were wet right out of the bag.
Yep same experience here, next upgrade should be a filament dryer, otherwise the results will always change
@spayrex_ he has a filament dryer but apparently didn't use it.
Thanks, good to know
@@strantor i would guess he has one, but looking at the mounting option right now i would assume he wont be able to fit it there or maybe he also doesnt have one with space for 4 spools, either way i think we will see it in the next video
Same here! I’ve had some terrible experience with filament right out of the bag without drying it first
Seeing him jump around between the absolute basics (like that one of the sides of an object being bad indicates asymmetric cooling) to absurdly advanced stuff, like the standing waves in the wires, is wildly entertaining.
I am sure you have thought of this, but you should start with a speed where the print is perfect first. Then speed it up and troubleshoot anomalies as they appear until you cant solve any anomalies.
There is a physical limit to how fast you can process materials. How fast you can print doesn't mean anything if the integrity and function of the printed part becomes useless.
Seems pretty clear this is competing for one thing only: World SpeedBenchy records. There are tons of "quality at speed" projects out there (VzBot et al), but this thing is meant to push out a Benchy-shaped object as fast as possible without care for aesthetics or structure.
Your completely missing the point of his videos . . .
Titling the hilarious intro as "Hilarious Intro" has to be the most German thing I've ever seen.
Fr😂
😂
I still think it should have a stationary bed, use those cables to move the extruder. Even input shaping and pressure advance aren't going to prevent your plastic model from flexing the way you're shaking it.
I agree but the coolest thing with this build is its uniqueness ... New ideas to tests
Schöne Festtage!
I hope you still go further and further until you get the fastes benchy possible
All this to be as fast as that ender 3
not a world record. Kirapatka's 1:53 is the current WR. great run though
I havent seen this one before. There was also no entry on the annex spreadsheet and there are no info on the g-code aswell as some shots of the finished benchy. But we'll pass that number in the next episode ;)
This thing is awesome! Do you think using the coolant those canned air dusters use would work? You would have to avoid the ones that are just R134a but a lot of them use R152a now. I guess R152a doesn't do anything the ozone and only stays in the atmosphere for a year and half or so.
What I'm asking is, could you use a lot less flow/force if you basically used tiny nozzles (maybe plastic taper type luer lock nozzles? easy to change and lots of sizes, my favorite for air are the pink 20g ones) then had the container of the r152a upside down and sprayed a little liquid onto the print? It might give you both faze change and liquid cooling but dissipate/dry very rapidly, so you might be able to get away with way less flow overall. Im not sure if r152a is the best choice, but maybe something in that vein? I think CO2 would be ab it tricky, but maybe something like that? Maybe it wouldn't work so well though because of the leidenfrost effect thing?
Another thing I've wondered, would it make sense to print super thin layers at even higher speeds? I always thought it would be neat to get high speeds at fine resolution, but in your case the thinner layers might cool better?
Anyway, keep it up! I love this crazy contraption you've built and can't wait to see how far you can push it!
Edit: OOH! What material do you think will be best for this? I remember hearing something about ABS flowing better, and it does seem to firm up faster when excessive cooling is used, though I don't see it surviving that kind of movement with high cooling...
Edit 2: Is dynema better than other fibers like kevlar? I thought it stretched or had some elasticity? Or am I thinking of something else?
When seeing your extruder problem, i realized you may want to add a "rotation counter" on all for spools, you can zero them on every run or at each day and then it will allow you to see after multiple runs/tests if the extruders extrude differently.
Maybe a simple, yet usefull information when continueing your troubleshoot.
Besides that, awesome machine!
Awesome work! I showed my kiddos, especially the part about taking notes 🙂 Keep going 🎉
The intro is absolutely hilarious. Thank you for that!
The intro/outro was amazing! Love it!!
do you have a video with a "slow" print showing high quality?
Add thermal paste to the aluminium mount's for motors so you can move heat away from the stepper motors.
very good series , i like your approach & im learning from it
I love the humor and really respect the engineering exploration that is going into this project.
Thanks for sharing! 😃
reduce the airpressure and use really cold air instead. liquid nitrogen WEEEE :D
IDK about nitrogen. The stuff has the wired ability to make everything it gets into contact with Brittle, and may just be too cold, as it may cool the entire area around the nozzle.
But cooler air with less pressure (even if just to stop that extruded filament from being deposited a bit off) is probably a good idea, at least judging from my very limited knowledge..
@@jkr9594 I was 3d printing "train cart" from PETG for superconductors (superconductors inserted into the hole during printing) it survived 120+ cycles of going from +30 deg C dropped directly into liquid nitrogen till cooled and then up from LN to +30 deg C. It was designed that it hold some nitrogen inside with double walls printed around as isolation.
EDIT I forget point. It was not that brittle. Also he can use copper tubes submerged in LN with air going through it. Similar as alcohol is distilled.
you should put some work into ducting for the cooling, CFD simulations , getting laminar flow right below the nozzle tip, 360 degree cooling and or orienting the object so the beak gets the most cooling
You definitely need a high speed camera for this work. I think you will make lots of progress with the ability to see what's going on in ultra slow motion. Great work, and a facinating video. We are all loving this kind of research.
So cool! I was thinking of building an epoxy granite framed 3D printer, but this is so much cooler! Thank you for the great content!
I watched the full series, the finale was fantastic! Subscribed for season 2 ✌️
Great intro! Hope you enjoy your vacation and I’m excited about the next episode this system seems to have a lot of promise!
I’d agree with some of the other comments here that starting with some slower runs where the benchy is good quality and then tweaking the settings from there could be beneficial. Especially when you talk about this being such a unique motion system.
Starting out at such high speeds and low quality benchys may be hurting you some in that regard, but I know you’ve already ran some longer benchys in previous videos.
With that said you know way more than me about this system. Really enjoying the videos!
Thank you for your input.
I'm aware that I'm not going the 100% proper way. But I'm also doing that for video content. Finding a balance between proper engineering ground work and the occasional skipping of steps is key here ;)
Wonderful intro, not laughing face, congrats! That machine is insane, sounds like a industrial sewing machine.
@2:30... the wavy hand finally broke me 😂also damn, respect to that USB-C connector @15:30
Sick! I was amazed by the speed of commercial printers now.. and now you guys are beating physics at another level by completely rethinking everything..
just a advice here i think your cooling should be 360° to not send the air just in one direction but rather downwards and spread uniformaly into the part i think you will have better cooling overhall cause we saw that you are getting better print quality where the part is turned to the cooling pins, also the ropes/cords is not better instead use belts even larger belts htan the 6mm and just one fixation point like more a round toolhead mount but for your bed or maybe a cross gantry but is just my opinion hope it helps.
Continue the good work btw your toolhead is somenthing genius, you will change the 3d printing world.
Excellent explanations and an awesome project, thanks!
You don’t sound smudge
Keep rockingan, great job! We're eager to see you pushing and finding the limits in everything, hopefully you'll drive innovations to Comercial 3dprinters
Man I love this channel, I've started watching since the first minute man episode. I can't help but think that having your cooling go around 360 would be better, but I'm not an engineer so who knows.
Impressive! I'm intrigued by the ability to keep the part on the build plate. How many Gs is the Benchy experiencing during infill with the abrupt 180-degree change in direction?
the squeak seems to be just the harmonics of the part, i've seen similar with machined metal parts. i would suggest trying a dry graphite lube. something to consider the frequency correction graph will change as the weight or the platform / printed part gets heavier.
I also recently had issues with plastic resonance. I 3d printed a "ballnut" (antiballnut) out of polymax PC. It made the most obnoxious screeching on the ballscrew. Graphite lube was my first answer too. I tried dusting the powder inside the nut and onto the screw, no change. I tried spraying dry graphite lube spray on the screw, no change. Dry moly lube, same. What ended up working was fluid silicone lube. Safe for plastics and actually works. But in this case might load down the printbed? Not sure.
1:08:32 best Outro and Intro of the year, already. 😂👍Guten Rutsch und weiterhin viel Erfolg. o7 Ulf
How precise is the accelerometer you used?
You want to cool the filament *after* it has stuck to the previous layer, not as it comes out of the nozzle because it needs to be hot there and then cool as the nozzle moves on.
This is one of the most important cooling practices. It seems most people are trying to cool the nozzle, when you must cool the part 'after' the filament has been laid.
I agree, the current cooling system is so violent that it blows the still soft model out below the extruder and it prints in mid air. I think it's more important to cool the whole model, to make it rigid and allow new layers to stick properly.
The nozzle changes direction, so you can't just follow the cooling behind the nozzle in the path. All you can do is point it slightly below the nozzle, which is what he's doing
@@polycrystallinecandy many fast printers have fans at the side of the build platform to provide cooling to the whole model. The nozzle is above that airflow. Considering how much the model shakes around here, getting it cooled as quickly as possible seems very important.
@@TheLordNemesis those printers have a vertically moving bed and a fixed-height toolhead gantry. The toolhead here moves vertically, so a fixed-height airflow from the side won't cut it. The airflow needs to move up with the nozzle, which is exactly what is happening here. Watch the episode where he works on the cooling system.
Amazing intro!
The hand gestures had me loling 🤣 well played
"Thrilling reluctance to feedback".. describes almost every middle manager ever
Very good Video
At the beginning of the video so idk if you talk about this. Why not a heatsink and fan on those steppers?
Surprised it looked like a boat at all tbh. Impressed
i think filming these prints in super slow motion should reveal a lot of its flaws in a way that is easy to work with
@Kirapatka has held the speed benchy record for the last 9 months with a bench printed in 1:53 minute
Just a random idea I had when you talked about tried and proven systems: Have you considered using regular timing belts instead of strings? If you orient the motors upright with vertical belts, that could work. No idlers, just 270° around the motor pulley and then a spring to take the slack?
Might be prone to skipping teeth I imagine, especially when the spring is not tight enough. If the pulley is large enough the belt could be fixed to it. Or run it around the back like the current rope solution.
@TheLordNemesis I would expect pulleys as large as the ones he's using, to not skip easily. I mean that would be what, like a 80t or 100t GT2 pulley? I think the belts are a great idea.
he could also then add a tensioner pulley in the back portion that was already having free length issues. Would cut down on the free length, and give him better control over the tension of the belt
Input shaping is the pid loop right?
holy crap that is nuts
Can you turn the motor vertical? so the drive pulleys would also be able to be used to to change the direction and remove the need for the small idle pulleys at the corners?
Best video of all serie by far
Let's get this man a high speed camera. He's getting close to needing one for fine-tuning!
I only use aerospace grade granite. 😅 Incredible work, and congratulations on getting this beast cookin!
how much will input shaping be effected by the increasing weight of the benchy being printed? With how light everything is in this setup, I'd imagine the benchy might affect the resonance of the setup slightly.
I lost it at the hand wiggle when she said "anything resembling instability".
why do you have to print a benching during debugging? Can"t you start simple shapes first to debug the settings?
Congrats dude!
My guess is that pressure advance is still way too low with that extruder!
With a slow MK4 I managed to print TPU at pla speeds, with a PA of 1. Yes, 1! I'm guessing that with that long of a melt zone your value is gonna be similar, try to experiment with crazy high numbers! Do another coarse test from like 0.7 to 1.5 or something, some results are gonna look terrible and your extruder motors are gonna work hard, but my guess is there. Maybe even higher!
At 35:16 you can still see a huge hole on the side of the benchy, signaling that it's way too low, ot way too high. My guess is low :D
Run the PA tests at a speed and acceleration close to what you want to use, as those are factors too that influence PA.
But I'm just at half of the video, so maybe you address it later or it's something else entirely. See you in half an hour with an update to the comment lol
Agree here, 0.2 seems way too low!
I can tell that I used 0.4 in a brute force approach. Was way worse. Right now I do think this system needs a pretty low value. But I need more seat time to differentiate the problems one by one and then finetune everything
love to see some slow motion nozzle camera
Over an hour of awesome testing, speedy printing and actual good information on input shaper and pressure advance. The Next Layer is going to love how long this one is, NOT. can you edit this one down into 68 shorts for him ?
I think that you need a high speed camera with a tele macro lens to see what's really happening. Sight is often the most powerful sense for diagnosis.
Congratulations on the WR! Here se of my random thoughts while watching
32:04 at least the very good news is that the printer has survived 😂
34:50 that happened just as I admired the benchy sticking so well with 40G of acceleration 😂
52:08 looks like our dear benchy hit an underwater object, there's art in these results
May be get rid of the springs tensionning the cables, since they bring a low frequency resonance. Have only one motor for each axes X and Y, and a circuit to bring the other end of the cable on the opposite side. Use a turnbuckle to set the tension without adding springiness, yes it will add some inertia, but this could be compensated by the fact that you got rid of one motor.
As for the cooling, I would also try to have the needles facing each other, resulting in a turbulent flow where the jets are meeting, and avoiding the soft plastic to be blown sideways with high pressures on a single side.
Anyway, very fun project, even if; as other comments, I would start at a speed where the benchy is still decent (acceptable), solve the problems, and then increase the speed.
look into blunt luer lock cannula. you can get them in multiple Guages so you can direct higher flow lower velocity cooling directly and high pressure lower flow heads on the sides to take advantage of the coandra effect to increase air turnover.
might make sense to actively cool the air, or, use a volatile like liquid nitrogen or propane to create the flow.
Use a smaller nozzle opening, constricting the flow seems counterintuitive but then cooling will become less of an issue and moving mass as the material is pulled away at speed will cause fewer issues. And temp 195
I feel like a slow-mo camera could give good insight into some issues :D
Afaik you can rent them from some places
Can it print good quality at normal speed?
Like any project on it’s early stages need to be refined but it’s the begging of one of the most impressive printing process, for shire this would redefining 3d printing, and all we can say in a near future “do you remember when we used to wait hours four our printed items? Oh it was long a go”
Pre-heating the filament to just below the glass-transition temp of PLA may help a bit. Pre-heat to 45 or 50* or so.
Hilarious (and beautiful) presentation ;-)
Hello there! If the cables at their resonant frequencys are forced not to move, doesn't it just reroute the energy into the next conected, possibly movable part e.g. the bed with the accelerometer on it?
And If so (now really just uneducatedly spekulating), could some mount the corner bearings routing the cables on a sort of e.g. a metal stick that it stiff at normal but has a resonant frequenzy just like the cables, so is able to absorb the ringing by damping the inertia?
Amazing stuff!!
"Selected for their thrilling indifference to feedback" I was wondering!! xD
You may need to rethink your XY movement system. Moving the print bed that fast may be whats holding it back, although how you'd move the extruder as quickly is a different issue. Breaking it up into moving parts would entail a whole host of problems
If the 'spokes' on your nylon pulleys were angled fins like propeller blades, would they push and pull air through the pulley to help cool the nylon pulley at the cost of 'negligible' drag?
Interesting idea - but since they are just doing +- 1/8 of a rotation it will be a constant pushing air back and forth, not a continous cooling motion
Have a look at the RSCS cooling on the VZbot. Some additional stationary cooling that covers the whole part could be beneficial
Aerospace grade granite construction. Not something I ever expected to hear.
The extruder hotend "block" may be able to be optimized by going with a 2x2 orientation instead of 1x4.
Shortening those cable paths may be very useful. Can you run them under the table instead of around?
unfortunately not in the current setup. Maybe in a later iteration ;)
nice one with the string drive!
You need a slow motion camera. It will show you what you need to know. Run the resulting video through a computer vision structural displacements application and it will show you what's going wrong.
Just wow!
Won't the USB cable affect the input shaping calibration measurements(resonances)? Great video thanks
I feel like you need cooling that covers more area and is less concentrated to get better layer adhesion
Excellent
I'd also suggest some kind of a checkvalve in the hotend... althought that's ofc also a nice engineering headache
have you thought about using the venturi effect to pull more directed air around the needels and straight onto the part?
Looking at some of the other record benchys, I wonder if your extruder setup is to long, as some of those are using commercial printer hotends to get under 3 mins. I alsmost wonder if a dual extruder mixer would be just as effective for the flow needed, and would lessen the impact of the extruders mismatching
If you played the first 2 minutes of this video and then the "rockwell retro encabulator" video; i dont think most people would be able to differentiate the two.
Don't you have a fundamental problem in that it's a bed slinger? I.e. it slings molten filament around in randoom directions at 400k
I do understand the underlying absurdist level of commitment here, so I am bemused by the spool holder held on by a pony clamp.
I am thinking that maybe the air needles are creating the problem I would think something more high flow low pressure would be better to get your cooling so the filament isn't getting blown around. What about trying a tip in the same setup you have just a lot large outlet hole?
For the cooling I was thinking you may be able to put a small pressure tank in a box with dry ice. Could be a very easy way to pre-chill some air. Should be able to leave it hooked to the compressor, maybe put a couple loops of metal tube on the input to make sure warmer air from the compressor doesn't change the tank temp. This sounds safe to my non-expert brain so long as the dry ice isn't actually touching the tank. Liquid nitrogen doing this sounds dangerous to me as that much chilling of the steel could cause unexpected breakages of a pressurized tank? Again I don't actually know how extreme low temperatures affect steel beyond the broad part that it gets brittle
Buy a super high speed cam and record it for deeper investigation