A conversation about insomnia and anxiety with clinical psychologist Nick Wignall (Podcast #7)
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- Nick Wignall is a clinical psychologist who specializes in cognitive behavioral therapy for anxiety disorders and insomnia. He’s also a writer interested in how we can use the tools and insights of behavioral science to better achieve our personal growth and development goals.
In this episode, we talk about insomnia as an anxiety disorder rather than as a sleep disorder, the pros and cons of acceptance and commitment therapy for insomnia, why sleep hygiene is rarely helpful, and why CBT-I is typically the best option for people with chronic insomnia.
You can read the transcript for this episode on the Insomnia Coach website at: insomniacoach....
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My name is Martin Reed and I am the founder of Insomnia Coach®. I offer sleep coaching services that give people with insomnia all the skills and support they need to enjoy better sleep for the rest of their lives. I also offer a free two-week sleep training course for people with insomnia at insomniacoach....
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All content found on the Insomnia Coach RUclips channel is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice or medical treatment and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or other licensed healthcare provider. All content is provided as is, and without warranties.
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All content found on the Insomnia Coach RUclips channel is provided for informational and educational purposes only. It is not medical advice and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, disorder, or medical condition. It should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or any other licensed healthcare provider. Insomnia Coach LLC offers coaching services only and does not provide therapy, counseling, medical advice, or medical treatment. All content is provided “as is” and without warranties, either express or implied.
Minute 35:55 makes so much sense, thank you for that
Was watching this as I had insomnia.. all I could think about was if I was going to have a heart attack. Just a random tinge that lasted 3 seconds and it triggered my anxiety then back came my insomnia all night. I’ve been doing well. And health anxiety triggered my insomnia. I take sleep gummy and sleep teas. Sometimes it works but more so not. Such a vicious cycle.
Absolutely the best so tip so far… forget about it and stop tinkering, but being an over thinker it sure is hard.
Excellent information, incredibly helpful to go over so many of the most common mistakes made by everyone that deals with insomnia. I certainly did a countless list of things that did not help until I signed up with the Insomnia Coach courses. Getting better now and will be done with this struggle soon. 🙏 Thank you Mr. Reed
thank you thank you thank you!! This is SOOOO comforting and *ahem* eye-opening! Im 50 years old and have suffered from chronic insomnia since 17 years old. Once it was so bad i didnt sleep AT ALL for 3 nights. I have forever feared experienced that again, and hence, yes....insomnia=a fear of not being able to sleep. A horrible, cruael, queasy anxiety-driven cycle. And YES: ''sleep hygiene' is a) mind-blowingly condescending and b) insanely obsession-fuelling. I now feel that there is hope for true, empathic recovery for folk like me.
Thank you for sharing! It's great to know you found this video comforting and eye-opening! There's always hope - nobody is ever broken (we just get stuck from time to time)!
This was such a great interview. Learning so much about cbt l from you Martin. Thank you Nick for your valuable and humorous input. 🙂
Nick was a great guest - I am glad you found our conversation helpful, Julie!
Excellent podcast - thanks!
You're welcome - thanks for the feedback, Richy!
Great information. Thank you very much...
You're welcome! It was great to have Nick on as a guest!
I could relate to what Nick said about being anxious about the BIG one coming back. I was traumatized that I put myself through 5 days of barely any sleep and feeling like a zombie. The following week I managed to really reduce my sleep anxiety and that improved my sleep somewhat. The last two days I was doing well but last night I just couldn't fall asleep and was thinking about where I went wrong. Today I am trying not too think too much of it but in the back of my head, I am scared of feeling that I did during my first week of insomnia. I never want to feel like that again.
So often, it's the fear of the insomnia happening that is more of a problem than the experience of a night of insomnia! Remember that sleep drive always wins - if you are awake for long enough, you will always sleep!
So, after any difficult nights, if you're able to avoid modifying your day or compensating for a difficult night, sleep becomes more likely only subsequent nights!
If you find your mind wandering onto worrying about the future, sometimes repeating the mantra, "keep your head where your feet are" can be helpful. In other words, where are you right now and what are you doing right now? Bring your mind to that (in other words, bring your mind to the present).
I hope this helps!
@@InsomniaCoach thank you for your advice! Since hearing you say that sleep drive always wins, it has helped reduce some of my anxiety over sleep. I'll try to be more present and in the moment when during the day. The last few weeks I have found myself thinking about my sleep problems. Really don't want to let insomnia take control of my life anymore than it already has.
You're welcome! The great thing here is that YOU get to decide whether you'll allow insomnia to take control of your life! For example, YOU get to decide whether you'll spend time thinking about sleep or whether you'll do things that you enjoy. YOU have the power and control over your life - not your sleep!
@@InsomniaCoach I'd say you're a good sleep coach and life coach 😁 thank you!
@@lauralush23 That's kind of you to say! Glad I could help!
This was a great interview very informative. Im looking for a CBT-I therapist. Ive been suffering from severe imsomnia. Getting 2 to 4 hrs sleep a night, it just started out of nowhere. Desperately need help as its affecting my home and work life.
Glad to know you are looking for a CBT-I therapist so you can start working on tackling the thoughts and behaviors that perpetuate sleep disruption!
My personal experience in stay in bed listening audio book or relaxation music or even guided meditation is it worked sometimes, and also very tempting than getting out of bed TBH. However, I felt it doesn’t help for maintaining sleep or deep sleep, because it could also create distractions. And psychologically, you may depend on it.
Thanks for sharing, Z.
Martin, what do you say about blue light before bed?? And pre midnight sleep?
I hate to say I have anxiety and anxiety has taken control of my sleep so much. It happened 3 weeks ago I couldn't sleep because of stress and I forced myself to sleep that all I caused is only to sleep 1 hour one night. Then I was afraid of sleeping, I became aware of my surroundings and thought I never slept I felt awake the whole time. But I knew I was asleep since I had couple of dreams. I then got use to it and I was able to fall asleep fast because I was comfortable with the sounds and I knew I slept 7-8hrs for 1 week because I don't remember quite much and I had like 3 Dreams. Btw when I wake up I am never feel refreshed otherwise I have energy I don't know a state of awakeness.
My problem now is why Is that I can wake up so quick or even I feel so much energy in the middle of the night and during day I feel so much energy? I feel a bit tierd but not fatigue, I don't get sleepy at night.
During the day my only symptoms are a bit tierd from my face.
What's going on with me? Please help..
Absolutely nothing you described sounds unusual, Elly! The fact you have a lot of energy during the day is simply evidence that how we sleep doesn't always dictate how we feel during the day - it also suggests that you might even be getting better sleep than you think you are!
Loved the podcast. I was wondering if you could offer me any advice or direction on how to combat my sleep anxiety. I have generalized anxiety and last year I stayed up for 4 days from all the stress that huge life changes were causing me. Ever since I became aware about how anxiety affects sleep and I have developed a performance anxiety around sleep. It takes me a while to fall asleep alone even to this day. At night I get anxiety because I am thinking about the pressure to sleep and sometimes I still go a night without sleeping at all. The problem is that because I get so overly anxious when I go to bed on my own now it feels impossible to sleep beside anyone else. This has become a problem since I am in a relationship and my boyfriend wants to sleep over but every time he does it makes me more anxious because when he falls asleep I feel even more anxiety and pressure than usual and I don't sleep at all. I never used to have these issues but now it worries me how I am supposed to go to sleep in the same bed as someone else. What really worries me is that he has a vacation planned in April with another couple and I am so scared that I won't be able to sleep on the trip due to being in the same bed as him and being in a new environment and just the pressure of having to sleep so I don't ruin the vacation. Sorry for the long message, but I would really appreciate it if you could let me know who you think I should talk to, or what I should do. Thanks so much :)
If you have a lot of anxiety about sleep, it can be helpful to work with a cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia (CBT-I) therapist. As you have identified, putting pressure on yourself to sleep isn't helpful - and, as you also identified, you always sleep in the end! So, perhaps not putting pressure on yourself to sleep might be a helpful strategy, moving forward? If you are interested in exploring the thoughts that seem to generate anxiety, you might also find this video helpful: ruclips.net/video/Y0BoRejg9ZE/видео.html
Wow how are you now Sara? We have the same struggle. If you overcome it how did you do it?
Wow this has a lot of insights! Can you also give me some advice of how to overcome the fear of not falling asleep? Because every time I go to sleep I am always thinking if I will be able to have a sleep this night and it ended up not sleeping at all! During the day I am consistently worrying about my sleep please help me. I am looking forward to your responses.
I think it can be really helpful to acknowledge those thoughts and feelings - often, our default reaction is to try fighting or avoiding them and that gets us tangled up in an endless struggle with them. If we can become more of an observer of what goes on in our mind, rather than an opponent, all that stuff might have less of an influence over us. Thoughts don't prevent sleep from happening - but battling with them sure can!
@@InsomniaCoach Wow! This is noted!! Not regretting I was able to discover your channel. I also subscribed! 😇 Thank you!
@@superoli5308 Thank you for your support!
@@InsomniaCoach One las thing! Insomnia can be overcome even without CBTI right?
@@superoli5308 Sure! There's no "one way"!
Are afternoon naps a good or bad idea ? Do they have an impact on night sleep ?
Long afternoon naps can reduce sleep drive and make nighttime sleep more difficult.
Is there a way to get personal coaching (not just email coaching but Skype) from either nick or Martin that includes cbti?
I am not sure how Nick works, but you can book my phone coaching package (I typically do video calls over Zoom) right here: insomniacoach.com/phone/
Is ACT connected to the Clare Weekes method?
I have "Hope and Help for your Nerves" by Claire Weekes on my bookshelf but haven't read it through yet. However, having skimmed some parts of the book it seems she does emphasize the futility of trying to control our thoughts and emotions - and this is aligned with ACT.
Its terrifying to me that arousal/panic can be conditioned
Why does this feel terrifying, do you think? If it can be conditioned/learned, that means it can also be "unconditioned"/"unlearned"!
I wish I could sleep. Screaming tinnitus in my ears and can't sleep anywhere 😞
Tinnitus can definitely make sleep more difficult! A previous client of mine found Tinnitus Retraining Therapy (TRT) helpful. Perhaps that might be worth looking into.
@@InsomniaCoach thanks for responding..... that was on a bad day of tinnitus. My main problem is that I convince myself that I can't sleep because this and that; earplugs, sleep mask, darkness, sleeping pills, nasal spray, sleeping on the floor, people in the same room, eating beef etc. etc. etc. Seems like a state of ocd.
Thanks for your advice. Love your videos
@@andersfraodense I wonder if you shifted focus away from trying to make sleep happen/trying to avoid nighttime wakefulness your brain wouldn't have to run through all those mental gymnastics in a bid to protect you from wakefulness! Thank you for your kind words and I appreciate your engagement with the channel!