The layout I know! Maybe some video on how to learn new layouts, practice and experiment with moving keys around, recommendations on placing functionalities under keys? 😊
@@fern9634 yeah, for debugging, it was nice to be able to anchor one hand on one of the groups of keys for step/step over/resume/toggle breakpoint. But it was really only 3 or 4 F keys that I'd regularly use.
One just has to appreciate the subtle irony of using a high-end ergonomic keyboard with a monitor moved to the right side of the table 🙂 (guess the only reason was having the monitor in the right place would obsure the view, but still)
We're aware 😅 We had to take a "creative license" in order for you to see what is happening. If not the video would be 7 minutes of someone talking from behind a monitor 😂
I know you've touched on it when talking about design considerations for the Defy, but I'd love an in depth video on the pros/cons of concave “keywells” such as on the Glove 80 and Kinesis Advantage keyboards. Keep up the good work, your videos are truly entertaining, informative and well balanced with remarkably little bias. ❤
Absolutely agree with the unbiasedness. I love that they mention Moonlander or Kinesis regularly and don't shy away from a comparison. Makes it feel like we're all part of a happy little typing family.
Thank you, that's a great idea for a video that we want to make in the future. We have some models around already and we'll start to show them around with some reviews 🥰
Thank you for making this and talking about the sturggles of the ergonomic journey. There are clear downsides and knowing about them manages expectations and allows people to factor them in.
Hilarious, informative, great editing and clever use of lighting! Quality video as always! Small changes and adjustments here and there is what got me to using my Dygma Raise to the level of comfort I'm at now.
I've been using a Raise and (less frequently) a laptop keyboard for three years. The more I got used to the Raise, the dumber the regular keyboard felt to me. But it was bearable... until I started using home row modifiers on the Raise, that is. Now, like, half the keys on my laptop seem badly placed on purpose or something. Why would one want to stretch their fingers that way? Ugh.
I play ***STAR CITIZEN*** (if you’ve tried that game, you’ll understand why I used caps) with my Dygma Raise. You basically need a full-size keyboard and *then some* for all the keys you need for that game lol. Bazecor is awesome - got my layers set up and everything :). Such good software.
Awesome! We also want to have in the future a place to store and see other Dygmates layers. It's going to be super useful for people that just got the keyboard and play a certain game, for example 😜
I use the ZSA Moonlander (I have to have ortholinear), and I'll never go back to normal keyboards. When I have to use the laptop keyboard, it reminds me of how much better split, tented, mechanical ortholinear keyboards are. It's sad how the evolution of keyboards just stopped and became the standard, when they could be so much better. Even more sad is when I try to explain how much better these are, some people mentally wilt under the idea of changing how they type. Even if it is to something better. This was a good video that can help with that kind of thing.
Nice, we want to help with that with the release of the Defy. I personally want to try Columnar too, to see how much better it can be. We're all excited 💪
I have never seen a marketing video (it took me a while to figure it out) this well produced. Seriously. And the funny is doing an incredible job. Keep it going!
@@DygmaLab yea that is fine your the only company that has created what i wanted in a keyboard as some one who plays a loot of games it always botherd me how we use one big space button so now to with the defy's thumb cluster it's going to be purfect 😄
Oh yeah, we want to address those that didn't like the keyboard at first. Even some of us on the team didn't like it at first. You do have to keep pushing and getting used to it. It's unfairly easier to go back to your normie keyboard 😢
1. 1:45 the frustration fist is just to relateable :D 2. Yes, i also got a 350€ keyboard, just so the funny internet girl can keep her job ^^ 3. We need, not want we NEED more outtakes at the end!
I think people get too carried away w/ "ergonomic" keyboards and extra, unnecessary features like ortho layout, mechanical switches, etc. What people really need is a rubber-dome Kinesis Freestyle2 w/ 20" cable or the Kinesis Freestyle Pro. I own/use both for 10 yrs now. The 2 model is quieter, but I like the programmability of the Pro. Pair things w/ a good trackball from Elecon and a few wrist rests, and you're set. I also switched from QWERTY to Colemak and enjoy the experience.
@@kavajawa Are you saying that the staggering itself is an unnecessary feature, or things like the numpad, function keys, arrow keys, and giant space bar are unnecessary (or both)? I agree that ortholinear is preferrable, but I don't understand what you meant about switches. Are you saying that switches are unnecessary (because they most definitely are)? I do think that some people nitpick their switches too much (it's a bit overwhelming for me to have to choose, because I find it difficult to differentiate between most mechanical switches), but that doesn't make switch choices unnecessary or ridiculous.
Thank you for your comment, Daniel. Can you tell us what you prefer on the rubber-dome Kinesis that you don't like on Mechanical switches, for example? 🤔
I used to use one of the cheaper altrernatives but needed something that would provide all I would need when gaming and all of my other specific needs so resorted to a "standard" keyboard again and my back is breaking. I set out to look for a solution and found the Raise and the more coveted Defy. I specced one up and was at first a little shocked at how much one would be to get delivered to the uk but thought the price for comfort will be worth it, however when it came to pay there was no option to offer a kidney......jk... and then I continued dreaming of maybe one day getting my hands on one and keeping my kidneys....the dream continues ;)
We will keep working hard to find better price alternatives, so we can have a more competitive price in the future. As mentioned in other comments, we also have a refurbished store, and you might save some bucks if you order from there 🤔 dygma.com/collections/dygma-certified-refurbished
@@SiegfriedSTM True, but mechanical switches can be responsive at different depths of keypresses. Personally, I enjoy the rich, thunky, tactile click of a mechanical switch, and never understood how people could prefer the thin membrane switches of laptops, but to each their own, I guess.
@@kentslocum Well, feel, sound, and enjoyment are one thing. Doing actual productive work with mechanical keys is an entirely different matter. I make a living with typing stuff. 5-10k words per day are nothing unusual. And when I compare a mechanical keyboard to laptop style switches... boy... just watch me how far I can throw a mechanical keyboard :) When I use mechanical, my fingers hurt at the end of the day. It's world's difference whether you press down 1mm or 5mm. Travel distance hurts the joints like nothing else. Have been using thin switches for years and my keyboards usually last between 1-2years before something gives up the ghost. That's actual wear and not abuse. Just to give you a feel how much I type. Have switched to K100 Air just a few months ago, just to see how long mechanical laptop style switches last.
@@SiegfriedSTM I will confess that I do not type nearly as much as I would like, and certainly not enough to feel any pain. I grew up typing on a mechanical keyboard, and always had issues with my fingers slipping on laptop keyboards (not enough tactile feedback; it feels like tapping my fingers on a tabletop). Therefore, I had assumed (probably incorrectly) that mechanical switches that required less force to press them were functionally equivalent to membrane switches, but I guess you make a good point that total travel distance (not just the distance to where the switch makes contact, but all the way down to the point where the switch physically stops moving) equals "finger mileage," regardless of how much force is required to press the switch that distance. I guess the main advantage of some mechanical keyboards is that the switches can be hot-swappable if they wear out.
I ended up here because I spend the whole day using a laptop and my left hand has been giving signs of exhaustion due to the constant pinky shift/ctrl/win reach. The pain has been radiating all the way up to my elbow.
Sorry to hear about that 🙏 You can try to adjust the chair or alternate the hand to shift, but overall, laptops force a very weird working posture. Also, if you use the trackpad on the laptop, you might force a weirder position to avoid touching it by accident, try disabling it and using a small mouse device. Of course, the best solution would be getting a programable keyboard, better if it's split, but if you're uncertain about it, try the other solutions first. Here's some hope the pain improves!
@@DygmaLab I know, I use a Logitech mouse, and always set the trackpad to automatically disable whenever a mouse gets recognized by Windows. But I'm not from US and my standard keyboard is ABNT2. So I need keys like ç, ´, `, ^, ~, º, ª... Plus, there's the exchange rate, which would make that keyboard a bigger fortune to me here in Brazil. With import taxes, it would cost twice as much as the national minimum monthly wage. I hope in a near future I don't have to spend that much time on a computer. 🤣
Thank you very much 😊 Most of those are inspired by the staff's frustrating experiences when they started using the Raise, that's why they sound so true 🤣🤣
I actually never had that much issue with the split typing... It actually feels nice to type on a split... I got used to it in like... a day? I had more issues (and still do) with my missing num pads... Also have issues with Starcraft shortcuts.... though that may just be me putting the other half a bit too far away from where it should be.
Did you touch type already before moving to the split design? Normally this is what makes it easier for people to use it or not. The numpad can be easily configured in a second layer. I've tried removing the number row and only having a numpad to get used to it. As for the Starcraft shortcuts, you could create a Starcraft layer with all of those shortcuts properly configured so you can ditch the right half while gaming 🤔
I buy one and I love it. Only one key that was on the left side I used to click by right hand. But like it takes about month to start pressing it by left hand. Only problem - too short cable from hub to keyboards in my opinion. I put this keyboard as wide as I can to prevent pain in chest and it help a lot, but with cables that come with keyboard I can't do it as wide as I want. And it could be not a problem because you receive 3 cables - 2 short from hub to keyboards and one long from hub to PC, but for some reason when I try to use short one as from hub to PC - it didn't work ((
Hi there, thanks for the support and the comment! I get you're having problems with the split because you have to use the 50 cm cable to connect the Neuron to the computer, right? If that's the case, here are some solutions you can try to make the split larger: - Use a USB-C to USB-C 3.0 cable or superior to connect the Neuror to the computer, a 1m cable will suffice. That will set your 50cm cable free and give you a way wider split. - A USB-A to USB-C adapter and use the 1.5m cable to connect the Neuron to the computer, which will, again, allow you to use the 50cm cable to connect the Neuron to the halves. - Use a USB 3.1 or above to connect the Neuron to the halves. Though this might be more complicated, because the cable you need, 50 cm or so, is not a very common meassure, I would recommend the first option. Hope this helped!
@@DygmaLab thx for ideas. problem with 20cm cable I try to use from Neuror to PC. I use 20cm + 50cm from Neuror to keyboards to let them be wider. Problem is that I use keyboard both for PC and MacBook. And Macbook don't have USB-A. So I can't use 1.5m cable for connect Neuror to MacBook. 20cm cable can be great solution for that but for some reason 20cm cable don't work when I try to use it from Neuron to MacBook. Only 50cm work (and 1.5m ofc)
I'm just starting my journey on this ergonomic keyboard with an Alice layout (Keychron V10). Not bad... From the first day I already feel less pain on my wrist. I wonder the maximum benefit of a split keyboard can give...
When you look at 3:00 one can clearly see that the hand is not in an ergonomic position. So much to the "ergonomic keyboard". Problem is that the palm (not wrist!) rest is in the way to bring the keyboard into an ergonomic (closer to the body) position, so that the hand could float while typing comfortably. Also a problem with missing keys and relying on layers is that for one-handed use (browsing with the mouse in the right hand for example) extra function, arrow keys and so on can be quite useful. For touch typing I want those easily accessible from the home-row position. But in addition one has great benefit from dedicated keys which do not require two hands. This can be partly circumvented with dedicated "browsing" layers, which are easy to get into and out. At 4:44 you mention an important problem. Many will still have to use other keyboards (like laptop) and then you are totally screwed up, when you have to adjust your complete typing habits to different fingers using shift and so on. This is really horrible. What IMO makes more sense (if you need to use other keyboards) is to come up with layouts _and_ OS depending software which gives best of both worlds as much as possible and with only minor compromises when using the laptop keyboard, but still getting the "full glory" when using the external keyboard.
The position at 3:00 is actually ergonomic Nick, you can have the keyboard closer to you and I understand that the palm rests can prevent some of that too. We want to make a future keyboard with different palm rests area and also in a slim form. Thank you for your comment and for watching our video ❤️
@@DygmaLab The wrist seems clearly extended at that moment in the video, The wrist extension is _not_ ergonomic. Using palm rests _can_ be possible, but more in many cases it is problematic and more the cause of problems then the solution for those. I am talking for touch-typing for hours, not for a browsing session where you relax on your chair and sometimes need to press a few keys. Those are very different use cases.
@Nick Google You're right; wrist extension is not ergonomic, but removing the palm pads can be counterproductive. Yeah, if you remove them, put the keyboard closer to you and hover your hands over it, it's better, but most people need to rest their hands somewhere. And that's where palm pads play a key role in reducing that wrist extension 🧐
Any chance you can send out review copies soon? I'd like to take advantage of the preorder price but I'd like linus and the other reviewers to tell me what to think first.
We would love that, but we want everyone that backed the project to receive it first. After that we will send review units. We will also think of new discounts from time to time, don't worry ❤️
I ordered a Moonlander a few days ago, so I'm afraid you won't get my money for a keyboard, but you definitely got a sub and a like for your awesome (and surprisingly fair toward other keyboard, as long as they are ergonomic) clips :D
Thanks for the sub! Hopefully we'll convince you to get one of our keebs some day. Nevertheless, our goal is for people to learn and understand the importance of ergonomics, so any ergonomic keyboard you buy is a win 🥰
I’m pretty sure split keyboards would be better if they had some overlap in keys between the 2 splits. The fact is, most ergonomic keyboards aren’t designed for the most cases. Their designs are fairly limited. I mean, the concept is good, but so often the final product could be better. If you are using a split keyboard, you have a perfect spot for macros in the middle. And numkeypad still can be needed for calculators. I have most ergronomic keyboards because the concept is right, but they never realize the full potential of the keyboard. They never get close. If they actually went the full way, which really should’ve be adding that much more expense, but instead they leave it for buyers to miss and match different brands and different cables instead of just designing them the proper way and adding $5 to the keyboard.
You're right. In fact, there are quite a few ergonomic keyboards that have those overlapping keys, like the Dygma Defy, the Moonlander or the Keyboardio Model 100. That way you can have 6 on your left side if you want, or Y on your left, for example. You can see the Defy layout here ruclips.net/video/HwyF6jJnnv4/видео.html
We understand, but there's so much included on the keyboard... 😅 We also have a variety of refurbished items if you want to check: dygma.com/collections/dygma-certified-refurbished
I'm using neovim inside a custom terminal emulator. the terminal keybindings layered on top of neovim bindings? All I need is a keyboard with its own layers and keybindings to really confuse myself LOL.
LOL, that does sound like a keyboard enthusiast's dream! With customizable layers and keybindings, the possibilities are endless. Enjoy the journey of exploring all those options! 😄
I researched a lot to find what i needed (65-70 percent, split, backlit, palmrest, at least simple tilting)... And to my surprise there was one keyboard and it was under $100 (with hot swappable switches as a bonus). Royal Kludge RKS70.
@@DygmaLab It might be 😅. But it's actually well made. And it's a good starting point for people who did not yet fully commit into the mechanical keyboard world. I was planning to buy Dygma even though it's not cheap, but raise 2 was not yet available and tenting kit for the raise 1 didn't seem to be available anymore (at least it wasn't available back then) And lastly, I wasn't willing to sacrifice arrow keys 😄. But hey, everyone has preferences. And thanks to your YT channel I found out about split keyboards and learned all the terminology etc... Maybe my next keyboard will be from Dygma :)
Excelente, he encontrado mi alma gemela, he hayado el lugar sagrado donde otra persona tiene las mismas necesidades y preferencias. Gracias, buscaré este maravilloso teclado.
Your video description checks out, but the title doesn't. "I REGRET" is present tense - do you really still regret buying an ergonomic keyboard? I clicked to hear an opposing viewpoint but what I found instead was ... _from Wikipedia:_ " *Clickbait* is a text or a thumbnail link that is designed to attract attention and to entice users to follow that link and read, view, or listen to the linked piece of online content, being typically *deceptive* , sensationalized, or otherwise *misleading* ." If you feel like having an actually truthful title, maybe change the start to "At first I REGRETTED ..."
Hi there! First of all, apologies for the confusion, we tried to offer some counterpoints to ergo models, which are sill there: adapt to new disposition of keys, how to make up for the missing keys from a 100% models, the changes that brings to the setup, but, again, if if bothered you, we apologize 🙏
@@DygmaLab Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it! I just wanted to add that I did find your video entertaining and you made some good points, but it doesn't make it any less frustrating when you click on a video expecting one thing and you get something else.
Your videos are great but fail to address basic concerns an office user has who does not know much about ergo keyboards. There's no function keys. If I'm using excel, how easy is it to map the keys and what does that look like? A video would be useful on that. Also, would like to see practically how the number key maping works and the practicallity of layers. thx!
Hello! Making such changes is very easy. By default, they are programmend in the default layout we send with every keyboard. We have detailed information in a video named "How to CHANGE KEYS quickly and easily with Bazecor 1.0" We can, and will, make some more content on the matter, sure thing!
I'd love to have Dygma Raise just for Gaming, that many thumb keys would be a gamebreaker as I struggle to hit x, c, v, b keys with my thumb. Unfortunetly Its tot pricey, I'd like to have same layout without all of those functionality like spliting, tenting, etc. for half the price or even less.
We make discount campaings now and then, but we won't probably meet the price tag you're asking. However, with the Defy coming up, some user might be interested in selling second hand model for a more convenient figure, other than that, there' s not much we can do to help you, sorry.
It worth the effort, even if it takes months, because you will use it for many years to come! And it might very well be the reason why you can avoid various joint pains later in your life, which can also last for months, if not longer! I'm 46 yrs old and went through a few months of pain in my hands and even my arms. Beyond the pain, it also affects your mood. Made me worried that I won't be able to continue my programming carrier. Will I have to get used to some slower form of input, like typing with voice? So it's better if you put some effort into learning something more ergonomic, while you are still healthy.
![Tee Grizzley - Blow for Blow (feat. J. Cole) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wNLN5xsx5dc/mqdefault.jpg)
What is the one thing you miss from a traditional keyboard after making the switch to an ergonomic one?
The layout I know! Maybe some video on how to learn new layouts, practice and experiment with moving keys around, recommendations on placing functionalities under keys? 😊
Nothing...I just go with the flow.
My F keys :'( Even though you can reprogram them onto a different layer, I still miss the row above the numbers!
@@fern9634 yeah, for debugging, it was nice to be able to anchor one hand on one of the groups of keys for step/step over/resume/toggle breakpoint. But it was really only 3 or 4 F keys that I'd regularly use.
Whenever i have to type on a normal keyboard, i feel like an alien. Doesn't happen to much tho.
One just has to appreciate the subtle irony of using a high-end ergonomic keyboard with a monitor moved to the right side of the table 🙂 (guess the only reason was having the monitor in the right place would obsure the view, but still)
We're aware 😅 We had to take a "creative license" in order for you to see what is happening. If not the video would be 7 minutes of someone talking from behind a monitor 😂
I know you've touched on it when talking about design considerations for the Defy, but I'd love an in depth video on the pros/cons of concave “keywells” such as on the Glove 80 and Kinesis Advantage keyboards.
Keep up the good work, your videos are truly entertaining, informative and well balanced with remarkably little bias. ❤
Absolutely agree with the unbiasedness. I love that they mention Moonlander or Kinesis regularly and don't shy away from a comparison. Makes it feel like we're all part of a happy little typing family.
Thank you, that's a great idea for a video that we want to make in the future. We have some models around already and we'll start to show them around with some reviews 🥰
Dominique, you might need some better friends if your friends despise you when you lose at Candy Crush. 😅
Yeah, I've gone back to Farmville. Need the slow-paced kind of life rn 😂-Dominique
Thank you for making this and talking about the sturggles of the ergonomic journey. There are clear downsides and knowing about them manages expectations and allows people to factor them in.
Hey, no problem at all ❤️
We want to keep it real but also talk about the benefits that you will have in the long run.
rest in peace bin, that got pierced by a dygma raise at 4:11
It was totally worth the shot 🤣
*we need a new bin at the studio guys*
Hilarious, informative, great editing and clever use of lighting! Quality video as always! Small changes and adjustments here and there is what got me to using my Dygma Raise to the level of comfort I'm at now.
Nice, thank you for sharing that info with us. We're super glad you enjoy the keyboard and the videos ❤️
That was funny when you moved your chair to get to the other keys :)
The little details that change our lives ❤️
i'm in the process of online "window shopping" but i have to say that your videos are really good! and funny ("in the beginginning")
Glad you like them! 😁
I've been using a Raise and (less frequently) a laptop keyboard for three years.
The more I got used to the Raise, the dumber the regular keyboard felt to me.
But it was bearable... until I started using home row modifiers on the Raise, that is. Now, like, half the keys on my laptop seem badly placed on purpose or something. Why would one want to stretch their fingers that way? Ugh.
I know the feeling, just had to use a laptop keyboard on the weekend and it was super painful... I've missed my home row modifiers a lot 😅
@@DygmaLab Exactly, we need a solution which translates to a standard keyboard reasonably well!
Love the video. Could y'all make a vertical mouse as a modern, premium alternative to Evoluent? :)
We definetely want to make one. We're working on some designs at this very moment and we'll announce it in the future ❤️
I play ***STAR CITIZEN*** (if you’ve tried that game, you’ll understand why I used caps) with my Dygma Raise. You basically need a full-size keyboard and *then some* for all the keys you need for that game lol. Bazecor is awesome - got my layers set up and everything :). Such good software.
Awesome!
We also want to have in the future a place to store and see other Dygmates layers. It's going to be super useful for people that just got the keyboard and play a certain game, for example 😜
I use the ZSA Moonlander (I have to have ortholinear), and I'll never go back to normal keyboards. When I have to use the laptop keyboard, it reminds me of how much better split, tented, mechanical ortholinear keyboards are. It's sad how the evolution of keyboards just stopped and became the standard, when they could be so much better. Even more sad is when I try to explain how much better these are, some people mentally wilt under the idea of changing how they type. Even if it is to something better. This was a good video that can help with that kind of thing.
I love typing on it but god it sucks for Blender.
@@osakanone because of the missing F row and numpad?
Nice, we want to help with that with the release of the Defy. I personally want to try Columnar too, to see how much better it can be. We're all excited 💪
I have never seen a marketing video (it took me a while to figure it out) this well produced. Seriously. And the funny is doing an incredible job. Keep it going!
Wow thank you 🫶
Yea i don't think i will be able to go back to a normal keyboard when i get my defy
Sorry, not sorry! You're better off now, with an ergonomic keyboard that suits your needs ❤️
@@DygmaLab yea that is fine your the only company that has created what i wanted in a keyboard as some one who plays a loot of games it always botherd me how we use one big space button so now to with the defy's thumb cluster it's going to be purfect 😄
That's a great advertisement, popular questions that people might get from seeing this.
Oh yeah, we want to address those that didn't like the keyboard at first. Even some of us on the team didn't like it at first.
You do have to keep pushing and getting used to it. It's unfairly easier to go back to your normie keyboard 😢
Funniest video yet 😂 Keep it up
Glad you enjoyed. We'll keep the coming 🙋
Have been using my Dygma Raise for a month, love it. And Dygma having a RUclips channel with informative and funny videos is a big plus.
Thank you, glad you liked the keyboard and the content we've been making here 💜
The arrow keys moment makes me want to do a shitpost of someone playing rhythm games but with the dumbest layouts ever
🤔
1. 1:45 the frustration fist is just to relateable :D
2. Yes, i also got a 350€ keyboard, just so the funny internet girl can keep her job ^^
3. We need, not want we NEED more outtakes at the end!
Been there with the fist frustration too 😅
Thank you for staying with us, we will add more outtakes in the future 🤣🤣
As always, very good vidéo. It was very funny
Thank you for watching!
We want to continue creating content that is funny and yet very informational ❤️
I think people get too carried away w/ "ergonomic" keyboards and extra, unnecessary features like ortho layout, mechanical switches, etc. What people really need is a rubber-dome Kinesis Freestyle2 w/ 20" cable or the Kinesis Freestyle Pro. I own/use both for 10 yrs now. The 2 model is quieter, but I like the programmability of the Pro. Pair things w/ a good trackball from Elecon and a few wrist rests, and you're set. I also switched from QWERTY to Colemak and enjoy the experience.
Sounds like you got carried away!
Every staggered layout KB is an absolete nightmare from hell. No exceptions. Unnesesary features, how ridiculous. Same for switches...
@@kavajawa Are you saying that the staggering itself is an unnecessary feature, or things like the numpad, function keys, arrow keys, and giant space bar are unnecessary (or both)? I agree that ortholinear is preferrable, but I don't understand what you meant about switches. Are you saying that switches are unnecessary (because they most definitely are)? I do think that some people nitpick their switches too much (it's a bit overwhelming for me to have to choose, because I find it difficult to differentiate between most mechanical switches), but that doesn't make switch choices unnecessary or ridiculous.
Thank you for your comment, Daniel. Can you tell us what you prefer on the rubber-dome Kinesis that you don't like on Mechanical switches, for example? 🤔
I still have a second keyboard for gaming, WASD is not quite right on a columnar and probably never will
Have you tried shifting to ESDF? You can gaming layer where you shift all your keys one column to the right so WASD is on ESDF 😊
to me the perfect keyboard is the Thinkpad 7 row layout, including TrackPoint.
Have you tried an ergonomic keyboard?
I used to use one of the cheaper altrernatives but needed something that would provide all I would need when gaming and all of my other specific needs so resorted to a "standard" keyboard again and my back is breaking. I set out to look for a solution and found the Raise and the more coveted Defy. I specced one up and was at first a little shocked at how much one would be to get delivered to the uk but thought the price for comfort will be worth it, however when it came to pay there was no option to offer a kidney......jk... and then I continued dreaming of maybe one day getting my hands on one and keeping my kidneys....the dream continues ;)
We will keep working hard to find better price alternatives, so we can have a more competitive price in the future.
As mentioned in other comments, we also have a refurbished store, and you might save some bucks if you order from there 🤔
dygma.com/collections/dygma-certified-refurbished
You don't actually need *both* kidneys...
But you definetely need a Defy 🤣
I'm kidding guys, please don't do anything wrong 💀
Are you considering ever offering a version with laptop style keys for short travel time?
You can choose which switches you want for your Dygma; some switches require less "travel".
@@kentslocum None which give the 1-2mm feeling I am used to.
@@SiegfriedSTM True, but mechanical switches can be responsive at different depths of keypresses. Personally, I enjoy the rich, thunky, tactile click of a mechanical switch, and never understood how people could prefer the thin membrane switches of laptops, but to each their own, I guess.
@@kentslocum Well, feel, sound, and enjoyment are one thing. Doing actual productive work with mechanical keys is an entirely different matter.
I make a living with typing stuff. 5-10k words per day are nothing unusual.
And when I compare a mechanical keyboard to laptop style switches... boy... just watch me how far I can throw a mechanical keyboard :)
When I use mechanical, my fingers hurt at the end of the day. It's world's difference whether you press down 1mm or 5mm. Travel distance hurts the joints like nothing else.
Have been using thin switches for years and my keyboards usually last between 1-2years before something gives up the ghost. That's actual wear and not abuse. Just to give you a feel how much I type.
Have switched to K100 Air just a few months ago, just to see how long mechanical laptop style switches last.
@@SiegfriedSTM I will confess that I do not type nearly as much as I would like, and certainly not enough to feel any pain. I grew up typing on a mechanical keyboard, and always had issues with my fingers slipping on laptop keyboards (not enough tactile feedback; it feels like tapping my fingers on a tabletop). Therefore, I had assumed (probably incorrectly) that mechanical switches that required less force to press them were functionally equivalent to membrane switches, but I guess you make a good point that total travel distance (not just the distance to where the switch makes contact, but all the way down to the point where the switch physically stops moving) equals "finger mileage," regardless of how much force is required to press the switch that distance. I guess the main advantage of some mechanical keyboards is that the switches can be hot-swappable if they wear out.
This is probably the best ad I've ever watched and if I wasn't completely broke I might've even spent some money here 😅
Thank you! Even if you didn't buy, now you know who we are. So we'll call it a win 😊
I ended up here because I spend the whole day using a laptop and my left hand has been giving signs of exhaustion due to the constant pinky shift/ctrl/win reach. The pain has been radiating all the way up to my elbow.
Sorry to hear about that 🙏
You can try to adjust the chair or alternate the hand to shift, but overall, laptops force a very weird working posture.
Also, if you use the trackpad on the laptop, you might force a weirder position to avoid touching it by accident, try disabling it and using a small mouse device.
Of course, the best solution would be getting a programable keyboard, better if it's split, but if you're uncertain about it, try the other solutions first.
Here's some hope the pain improves!
@@DygmaLab I know, I use a Logitech mouse, and always set the trackpad to automatically disable whenever a mouse gets recognized by Windows. But I'm not from US and my standard keyboard is ABNT2. So I need keys like ç, ´, `, ^, ~, º, ª... Plus, there's the exchange rate, which would make that keyboard a bigger fortune to me here in Brazil. With import taxes, it would cost twice as much as the national minimum monthly wage. I hope in a near future I don't have to spend that much time on a computer. 🤣
It’s funny because it’s true. Really nice reconstruction of how learning an ergo layout!
Thank you very much 😊
Most of those are inspired by the staff's frustrating experiences when they started using the Raise, that's why they sound so true 🤣🤣
My sore left arm really asking me to get a split keyboard.... lol
We're here whenever you're ready! 😊
It's sooo fun to watch your videos!!
Ooooh thank you so much! We have a lot of fun recording them too 😊
@@DygmaLab I can imagine it!!
A bit over dramatic, but true. 👍
(The content of the video, not the videos title 😅)
Oh yeah, we like it dramatic. But the content holds a lot of truth 😜
I actually never had that much issue with the split typing...
It actually feels nice to type on a split... I got used to it in like... a day?
I had more issues (and still do) with my missing num pads...
Also have issues with Starcraft shortcuts.... though that may just be me putting the other half a bit too far away from where it should be.
Did you touch type already before moving to the split design? Normally this is what makes it easier for people to use it or not.
The numpad can be easily configured in a second layer. I've tried removing the number row and only having a numpad to get used to it.
As for the Starcraft shortcuts, you could create a Starcraft layer with all of those shortcuts properly configured so you can ditch the right half while gaming 🤔
I buy one and I love it. Only one key that was on the left side I used to click by right hand. But like it takes about month to start pressing it by left hand.
Only problem - too short cable from hub to keyboards in my opinion. I put this keyboard as wide as I can to prevent pain in chest and it help a lot, but with cables that come with keyboard I can't do it as wide as I want. And it could be not a problem because you receive 3 cables - 2 short from hub to keyboards and one long from hub to PC, but for some reason when I try to use short one as from hub to PC - it didn't work ((
Hi there, thanks for the support and the comment!
I get you're having problems with the split because you have to use the 50 cm cable to connect the Neuron to the computer, right?
If that's the case, here are some solutions you can try to make the split larger:
- Use a USB-C to USB-C 3.0 cable or superior to connect the Neuror to the computer, a 1m cable will suffice. That will set your 50cm cable free and give you a way wider split.
- A USB-A to USB-C adapter and use the 1.5m cable to connect the Neuron to the computer, which will, again, allow you to use the 50cm cable to connect the Neuron to the halves.
- Use a USB 3.1 or above to connect the Neuron to the halves. Though this might be more complicated, because the cable you need, 50 cm or so, is not a very common meassure, I would recommend the first option.
Hope this helped!
@@DygmaLab thx for ideas.
problem with 20cm cable I try to use from Neuror to PC.
I use 20cm + 50cm from Neuror to keyboards to let them be wider.
Problem is that I use keyboard both for PC and MacBook. And Macbook don't have USB-A. So I can't use 1.5m cable for connect Neuror to MacBook.
20cm cable can be great solution for that but for some reason 20cm cable don't work when I try to use it from Neuron to MacBook. Only 50cm work (and 1.5m ofc)
I'm just starting my journey on this ergonomic keyboard with an Alice layout (Keychron V10). Not bad... From the first day I already feel less pain on my wrist. I wonder the maximum benefit of a split keyboard can give...
Nice! We have more information on how we imagine the ergonomic journey here on this other video: ruclips.net/video/q8FeBPREzZA/видео.html
YOU should audition for a sitcom, you are very funny woman
Thank you! I should really try it 😅
- Dominique
When you look at 3:00 one can clearly see that the hand is not in an ergonomic position. So much to the "ergonomic keyboard". Problem is that the palm (not wrist!) rest is in the way to bring the keyboard into an ergonomic (closer to the body) position, so that the hand could float while typing comfortably.
Also a problem with missing keys and relying on layers is that for one-handed use (browsing with the mouse in the right hand for example) extra function, arrow keys and so on can be quite useful. For touch typing I want those easily accessible from the home-row position. But in addition one has great benefit from dedicated keys which do not require two hands. This can be partly circumvented with dedicated "browsing" layers, which are easy to get into and out.
At 4:44 you mention an important problem. Many will still have to use other keyboards (like laptop) and then you are totally screwed up, when you have to adjust your complete typing habits to different fingers using shift and so on. This is really horrible. What IMO makes more sense (if you need to use other keyboards) is to come up with layouts _and_ OS depending software which gives best of both worlds as much as possible and with only minor compromises when using the laptop keyboard, but still getting the "full glory" when using the external keyboard.
The position at 3:00 is actually ergonomic Nick, you can have the keyboard closer to you and I understand that the palm rests can prevent some of that too. We want to make a future keyboard with different palm rests area and also in a slim form.
Thank you for your comment and for watching our video ❤️
@@DygmaLab The wrist seems clearly extended at that moment in the video, The wrist extension is _not_ ergonomic. Using palm rests _can_ be possible, but more in many cases it is problematic and more the cause of problems then the solution for those. I am talking for touch-typing for hours, not for a browsing session where you relax on your chair and sometimes need to press a few keys. Those are very different use cases.
@Nick Google You're right; wrist extension is not ergonomic, but removing the palm pads can be counterproductive. Yeah, if you remove them, put the keyboard closer to you and hover your hands over it, it's better, but most people need to rest their hands somewhere. And that's where palm pads play a key role in reducing that wrist extension 🧐
B key Misfires is too real
It's a struggle at first, but just for a bit 😊
Any chance you can send out review copies soon? I'd like to take advantage of the preorder price but I'd like linus and the other reviewers to tell me what to think first.
We would love that, but we want everyone that backed the project to receive it first. After that we will send review units.
We will also think of new discounts from time to time, don't worry ❤️
I'll wait for the black friday, hoping for a cheaper Price.
We always have some Black Friday deals 🙂
The keyboard is good but expensive.
Maybe you want to check this video ruclips.net/video/w8fKXsGjSWw/видео.html 😜
OMG!!! Your hilarious I love this video.
Thanks 🥹
I ordered a Moonlander a few days ago, so I'm afraid you won't get my money for a keyboard, but you definitely got a sub and a like for your awesome (and surprisingly fair toward other keyboard, as long as they are ergonomic) clips :D
Thanks for the sub! Hopefully we'll convince you to get one of our keebs some day. Nevertheless, our goal is for people to learn and understand the importance of ergonomics, so any ergonomic keyboard you buy is a win 🥰
I’m pretty sure split keyboards would be better if they had some overlap in keys between the 2 splits.
The fact is, most ergonomic keyboards aren’t designed for the most cases. Their designs are fairly limited.
I mean, the concept is good, but so often the final product could be better.
If you are using a split keyboard, you have a perfect spot for macros in the middle. And numkeypad still can be needed for calculators.
I have most ergronomic keyboards because the concept is right, but they never realize the full potential of the keyboard. They never get close. If they actually went the full way, which really should’ve be adding that much more expense, but instead they leave it for buyers to miss and match different brands and different cables instead of just designing them the proper way and adding $5 to the keyboard.
You're right. In fact, there are quite a few ergonomic keyboards that have those overlapping keys, like the Dygma Defy, the Moonlander or the Keyboardio Model 100. That way you can have 6 on your left side if you want, or Y on your left, for example.
You can see the Defy layout here ruclips.net/video/HwyF6jJnnv4/видео.html
“What are layers?”
They’re like ogres
They stink? 🤣
We should use that refence in the future!
i'm loving my logi ergo k860 but super interested in the kinesis advantage... i'll get it if i get rich 🤣
Nice, the Ergo k860 is a great start to the ergonomic journey.
We talk more about that here in this video: ruclips.net/video/q8FeBPREzZA/видео.html
From RSA, appreciate the clip of our former president 😀
Sorry, we had to do it 😅
@@DygmaLab it's too funny not to include 🤣
Too good!
Love this show ❤
Thank you! We'll keep new videos coming 🥰
yet me too..
So I just built my own 😉
Nice, can you give us more details on what you've built? 🤔
good marketing
Thank you very much 😊
chat Raise breaks soy trash can 4:11
Hahaha I never noticed that the keyboard actually breaks the bin 😅
Thanks for pointing it out 😂
great entertainment!
Thank you, we're super glad you liked it. We have many other new videos coming up ❤️
It is funny how you always dodge Kinesis advantage.
I think we mentioned it two videos ago ruclips.net/video/zS3GY3vudWc/видео.html (min 2:10)
@@DygmaLab oh right, my bad :) you mentioned even glove80....well done! you really know your competition.
what will be your thoughts about CharaChorder? please mention that one on one of your videos aswell.
Steno is a whole different game... we want to make a video about it in the future too ❤️
The price still isn't worth it for me. It's a keyboard, not a computer
We understand, but there's so much included on the keyboard... 😅
We also have a variety of refurbished items if you want to check: dygma.com/collections/dygma-certified-refurbished
Gorgeous, funny girl...
Thanks, you're too kind 🙂
-Dominique
funny
Thanks a lot!
funny girl :)
Thank you for watching and commenting 🙋
I wish my rent cost as much as a Dygma Raise
That would be awesome, I would have a lot of unspent money at the end of the month for sure 🤣🤣
I'm using neovim inside a custom terminal emulator. the terminal keybindings layered on top of neovim bindings? All I need is a keyboard with its own layers and keybindings to really confuse myself LOL.
LOL, that does sound like a keyboard enthusiast's dream! With customizable layers and keybindings, the possibilities are endless. Enjoy the journey of exploring all those options! 😄
I researched a lot to find what i needed (65-70 percent, split, backlit, palmrest, at least simple tilting)... And to my surprise there was one keyboard and it was under $100 (with hot swappable switches as a bonus). Royal Kludge RKS70.
No disrespect, but it looks like a plastic Aliexpress copy of the Dygma Raise 😅
@@DygmaLab It might be 😅. But it's actually well made.
And it's a good starting point for people who did not yet fully commit into the mechanical keyboard world.
I was planning to buy Dygma even though it's not cheap, but raise 2 was not yet available and tenting kit for the raise 1 didn't seem to be available anymore (at least it wasn't available back then) And lastly, I wasn't willing to sacrifice arrow keys 😄.
But hey, everyone has preferences. And thanks to your YT channel I found out about split keyboards and learned all the terminology etc... Maybe my next keyboard will be from Dygma :)
These videos get better and better.....Gracias Dominique! ...I mean Dygma Team 🤣. My favorite layer is the one that comes with cake. Kudos from NYC🗽.
Glad you liked it 🙋♀️
- Dominique
Excelente, he encontrado mi alma gemela, he hayado el lugar sagrado donde otra persona tiene las mismas necesidades y preferencias. Gracias, buscaré este maravilloso teclado.
Que bonita carta de amor a Dygma, estamos encantados de que nos hayas encontrado 💕
the same with 64key keyboards
Your video description checks out, but the title doesn't. "I REGRET" is present tense - do you really still regret buying an ergonomic keyboard? I clicked to hear an opposing viewpoint but what I found instead was ...
_from Wikipedia:_ " *Clickbait* is a text or a thumbnail link that is designed to attract attention and to entice users to follow that link and read, view, or listen to the linked piece of online content, being typically *deceptive* , sensationalized, or otherwise *misleading* ."
If you feel like having an actually truthful title, maybe change the start to "At first I REGRETTED ..."
Hi there!
First of all, apologies for the confusion, we tried to offer some counterpoints to ergo models, which are sill there: adapt to new disposition of keys, how to make up for the missing keys from a 100% models, the changes that brings to the setup, but, again, if if bothered you, we apologize 🙏
@@DygmaLab Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it! I just wanted to add that I did find your video entertaining and you made some good points, but it doesn't make it any less frustrating when you click on a video expecting one thing and you get something else.
im not going to through my full sized wasdkeyboards any soon for the sake of any half keyboards shape
Well, it's much more than just the shape, but it the full size WASD keyboard works for you, who are we to judge? 😅
I would pick Dygma over ZSA for Dom.
🥰
1:50 to be able to touch type does not mean that you have to be able to do it on a split keyboard
But it is easier than for a person who does not know touch typing 😉
@@DygmaLab i've never typed on split keyboard. but i expected muscle memory to help with touch typing on it, instead of getting in the way.
Your videos are great but fail to address basic concerns an office user has who does not know much about ergo keyboards. There's no function keys. If I'm using excel, how easy is it to map the keys and what does that look like? A video would be useful on that. Also, would like to see practically how the number key maping works and the practicallity of layers. thx!
Hello!
Making such changes is very easy. By default, they are programmend in the default layout we send with every keyboard. We have detailed information in a video named "How to CHANGE KEYS quickly and easily with Bazecor 1.0"
We can, and will, make some more content on the matter, sure thing!
What mouse is that?
It's the Delux MV6, although we don't recommend it much on our mouse review video 😅 ruclips.net/video/HToGiRtQ-as/видео.html
I'd love to have Dygma Raise just for Gaming, that many thumb keys would be a gamebreaker as I struggle to hit x, c, v, b keys with my thumb. Unfortunetly Its tot pricey, I'd like to have same layout without all of those functionality like spliting, tenting, etc. for half the price or even less.
We make discount campaings now and then, but we won't probably meet the price tag you're asking.
However, with the Defy coming up, some user might be interested in selling second hand model for a more convenient figure, other than that, there' s not much we can do to help you, sorry.
Brilliantly informative & equally entertaining - enjoyed The Who track addition especially
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. We really do have a fantastic video team 😊🤍
This video reflects my current fears....more importantly why hasn't Dominique won an Oscar yet?
That's a great question. We'll ask the Academy 😅
Regarding your fears, don't you worry, we'll be hear to guide you through the process.
It worth the effort, even if it takes months, because you will use it for many years to come!
And it might very well be the reason why you can avoid various joint pains later in your life, which can also last for months, if not longer!
I'm 46 yrs old and went through a few months of pain in my hands and even my arms.
Beyond the pain, it also affects your mood.
Made me worried that I won't be able to continue my programming carrier.
Will I have to get used to some slower form of input, like typing with voice?
So it's better if you put some effort into learning something more ergonomic, while you are still healthy.
Thanks for sharing this video ❤❤❤
Thanks for watching!
Wait, who types B with their left?!
Everyone that has a Raise! 😅
We have a video explaining why we split the keyboard there here: ruclips.net/video/3dBnU2SGfzc/видео.html
Awesome production !
Glad you liked it ❤️
nice!
Glad you liked it ❤️