The Canvas Tuner Has A Major Issue
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- Опубликовано: 7 дек 2023
- Let's talk a little about the Canvas Tuner from Walrus Audio. It is a great tuner pedal but there's also one major issue with that thing...
#guitarpedals #walrusaudio #guitar 
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After reading some of the comments I get the impression that either the industry did a pretty good job in brainwashing or many of you guys don't have any clue what daisy chain technically means. Daisychaining is not a bad thing in general - maybe I should do a follow up video and explain some basic stuff. And please do me a favor and watch the video to the end before posting a comment - it could help to understand 🙏🎸
I think the majority of players today understand the isolated power is always going to produce a lower noise floor with zero chance of bleed through. As a former owner of a One spot daisy chain, and a tuner pedal with a power out, I personally have zero noise now using an iso brick. I would say most players today who build a pedal board will use isolated power supplies.
All my power supplys (currently 4) provide isolated power - I never doubted that these weren't better! The thing is that I don't want to waste one outlet for a tuner because on that pedalboard the powersupply has only 5 slots which are all in use. And no, I don't want to spend another 200 bucks for a new power supply...
Hey man. I just watched the whole video and you have some fair points but your reasonings are really dumb dude “the other tuning pedals can do it so this should do it too” yes the other tuning pedals can do it because they are made for it, this pedal is not made for it and thats why it does not have a power out, and probably the reason for it not having a power out would be because it needs the amount of power that is listed with it and if it was gonna have the ability to do so then it would also need a power requirement that is much higher. And your reasoning with “new = better than old” is just like saying that an infant should be able to do a backflip just because the parents both could do a backflip. Dude you need to find some better reasons for your arguments and maybe realise that once in a while you can be wrong too.
The thing is, if no one complains about it, nothing will get better. This does not only apply to Walrus Audio - it's a general rule! Even if I can understand that some fanboys try to defend WA - it's somehow counterproductive.
@@StranglingVicTillDeath This RUclipsr is a prime example of trying to get views from nothing, gaslighting maybe? Creating a problem where there isn't any....the designer never intended this pedal to have a power out, and it has significantly more capability than any other tuner, hence the power design choice.
Totally fine if our tuner isn't your cup of tea! However, using a pedal in a way the manual says not to use it then complaining that it doesn't do what you want it to do when its not being used correctly is an odd way to critique it though.
Many thanks for your comment. Unfortunately things don't get better by naming them in the manual. I would love to buy the next generation of that tuner - with a 9V outlet and of course without any noise. I am sure that you, as a company with high-quality products, are also interested in improving your products.
Mine is very noisy. If I buy a boss PSA-120 would that fix the problem? I am not daisy chaining, but I am using a pretty cheap power supply, although it hasn't been an issue until I got the canvas tuner.
Why not make a pedal than can share a power supply like other manufacturers
I think Walrus Audio’s message was to do your due diligence and if this pedal is not for you, don’t shit on it because you failed to do the above. Just use something else.
So… is the warning buried in the manual or do you let people know before they purchase. You seem to think it’s the customer’s problem.
I remember when I bought my first properly isolated power supply. It was a second hand Walrus Audio Phoenix. Fixed so many issues on my pedalboard. Evolving is hard, but you'll figure it out.
It's way too long that I remind when I bought my first isolated power supply - watching the video could help to understand...
I played guitar for 20 years without having an isolated power supply
I have one now and can’t believe I didn’t try it
My understanding from videos I've watched of Vertex Effects is that it's not a good idea to have digital and analogue pedals on the same power, as we as isolating all modulation pedals to their own output too because they can create some noise. As somebody else said though, Walrus Audio does make it clear in their manuals to power this with an isolated power source and not to daisy chain it. You're right though that it would be nice for an updated version to allow for daisy chaining or a power out.
Well, the general rule is to use one isolated outlet of your power supply for each digital pedal - do not daisy chain with analog or digital pedals. I'm totally aware of this - however, I don't know of any single other tuner that pollutes the voltage. Even in true bypass mode you'll get the noise - that's not what I would call high quality or the best tuner of all times. Isn't it also an industry standard to share power with the tuner - as tuners from the biggest brands (BOSS, TC, Peterson) easily offer a daisy chain connection without any issues? Wouldn't it be better if all pedal vendors would take care about? I've also tested other digital pedals (BOSS, TC, EHX) in the same configuration, guess what - no noise at all! And citing a lack of functionality in the manual does not make it a better product - isn't it?
Thanks! Now I figured out why my tuner was noisy! 😅
Thank you.
Glad if I could help 😎
The other major problem with this tuner is that it does not make a strong black coffee. I know I’m using the pedal incorrectly but I just thought it would because I want it too. It also isn’t telling me the winning lottery numbers…Will this feature in a future firmware update ???
I wish they'd put in a teleporter, but I'm afraid I'd end up as meatloaf...
Users exist who only have outdated power supplies, but pedal boards without tuners are rarely seen.
Let's say I were a young guitar kid with only non-isolated power supplies. If noise ended up on my analog pedals, I would regret not watching this video beforehand. Surely, I would lament why nobody had informed me.
Considering the various environments, I also believe it's best for tuners to be prepared for such situations. Of course, I understand both the perspective of the video and everyone else's arguments.
I would call it a limitation but not a major issue, in any case a tuner needing 300ma (as per spec) is quite unusual to begin with,
getting noise from daisy chaining a high current draw pedal when daisy chaining with others is almost to be expected unfortunately ,
although unheard of usually from a tuner pedal
it has some fun features (orientation / wallpaper) but if that's what you're buying the pedal for, then you need to consider proper power options
Just my 2 cents: From a company that can build in fun features, I expect the basics to work as well, it's doable! WA is not a noname brand - personally I would expect high quality. Anyway, thanks for your comment.
it needs the 300ma for the display
Just bought the Canvas Tuner and you are right , it must have a separate and completely isolated power supply. I bought the Earthboard and it uses a unique system withone power source so the tuner will always require that I set it aside from the board which defeats the purpose. I'll bring it back and buy an analog tuner....wonder if the Peterson Strobostomp is analog? Can't find where it says it is or not. My old tuner is analog and just too small a display but works until I find another that fits my needs.
For me the Peterson tuner works great without any issues - the general rule never mix digital and analog is a bit outdated and depends on the used devices. Modern digital devices should be able to avoid pollution of the voltage.
Personally I see this tuner as a bit pointless for my purposes but I don’t think this is a good criticism. If you haven’t yet I suggest you try using a daisy chain 1spot on a couple strymon pedals and you’ll see a similar thing happen. The problem here is you’re trying to “game the system” on a device that needs all the notated power it demands. This is more user error and not a Walrus audio problem. It’s a reasonable complain that it doesn’t have a power out option but not that you cant draw current away from the pedal. Analog pedals have less issue with daisy chaining where as modern digital stuff doesn’t do well with it. A good follow up video would he recommending a good power supply for the budget player. I use a Walrus Phoenix and it’s incredible. It’s 250 dollars but fixes so many problems. And I can power my CE-1 on it too. Check that thing out.
As mentioned at 2:34 I'm aware of digital noise issues with digital devices - but getting that noise from a tuner is pretty unusual! For me that's a major issue, especially when it occurs in all bypass modes (even true bypass)! Technically there are solutions to fix this as I've demonstrated in the video as well. Personally I don't want to waste one of my 500mA power slots exclusively for a tuner... anyway, thanks for your comment.
Turbo Tuner 48mA, Strobostomp HD 85mA. I understand the Walrus has a screen, but *why*? Absolutely silly to have a tuner that draws 300mA. Walrus regularly make bizarre product decisions like this.
@@RockGuitarVibes yea dude I wouldn’t want that either. The pic feature isn’t worth the requirements and your notes drawbacks. I hope they will do a different smaller version next which will be the winner.
@@trev3971 it’s cool they do their own thing but yea I have a feeling once the new car smell wears off you’ll see a lot of these on the used market. It does look cool tho!
What power supply are you using? What is the mA output?
On that board it is the Pedaltrain Spark, 500mA outlet - same issue with my other power supplies, the Cioks DC7 and the T-Rex Fuel Tank. As demonstrated in the video the issue is not caused by the power supply...
I just bought a Boss TU-3. Highly accurate, can take a 9V battery, no digital noise, you can daisy-chain the power, and NO GIMMICKS. It just works, which is what you want on stage.
I used a TU-2 for years, nothing wrong with a Boss. But the Turbo Tuner is 50x more accurate than the TU-3 for only a few bucks more.
I daisy chain my polytune and get zero noise from it. Surprising that a company who specializes in power supplies couldn't get this right.
I like Walrus Audio and I own many of their pedals. The manuals make it very clear to use a separate power supply for each pedal. I just assumed that was to ensure maximum performance from the pedal. If other pedal manufacturers recommend using separate power for each of their pedals, maybe it’s just an industry standard. The canvas tuner seems cool, but maybe too gimmicky for it’s real purpose: to give the musician accurate tuning on stage or studio. A tuner pedal that has the potential to get noisy is a risk to the whole board. I love Walrus Audio, but if you use the Canvas Tuner just be careful how it’s used in your rig. Rock on, Walrus!👍
For a pedal tuner, the turbo tuner is the best, it’s is the fastest, it has no goofy delay to bypass, unlike Peterson, you want the best ? Buy a turbo tuner. Funny thing is most have never even heard of sonic research.
Thank you for your comment - maybe I'll give it a try...
Turbo Tuner ST-300 is so far ahead of the competition, it really has no competition. It's the fastest, most accurate and rugged. It's not some cheap Chinese phone larping as a tuner with a useless colorful screen that can crack and needs a ton of mA. No, it's a no nonsense, sleek design and is an actual analog strobe tuner and not a digital emulation.
@@mouthmwhow bright is the lights on stage? I might invest but I don’t really like how aged the product looks compared to others like the boss or Peterson
Some people in the comment section got upset about the daisy chain and daisy chained thier thoughts about the daisy chain in the comment section about the daisy chain and it turned into a daisy chain of comments about the daisy chain in the comment section.
You should do a looper pedal video with multiple loopers powered by a daisy chain. Lol.
Thank you very much for the video. I've been researching reviews about this pedal for a long time. I’m a roadie, I need tuners who impose trust and quality. I'm not going to invest money in an expensive power supply, because the pedal, which is already expensive, was poorly made. Thanks for the review.
Glad I could help 😎🎸
Despite the fact they could’ve avoided this issue, everything these days is about cutting cost. The fact that the industry standard has been LONG past daisy chaining would inform why they didn’t waste time and money on that detail, despite how “easy” it could’ve been. Not about easy… it’s about money. Power supply’s with isolated jacks have been a must since the late 90s/early 00s. Why are we daisy chaining? I had issues every single time I tried daisy chaining pedals, so I ended that stupid nonsense really quick early on.
That's a good point. Will many people who use this pedal have this issue?
Unlikely.
However, any device maker worth their salt should handle and clean the power coming in and minimise polluting the power rail, because they don't know how the end user will use the device unless they inform the end user not to daisy chain, the designer doesn't know if the end user is a beginner, professional, hobbyist or sound engineer.
That's why the other 2 pedals in the video didn't cause an issue with the daisy chain setup yet this one did.
If i were to buy a £10 to £50 tuner pedal off amazon or aliexpress, i would expect the designers/builders to take every shortcut possible, but when this pedal is being sold for £144 or more, i expect it to not pump noise back into the rails, the same way i expect most if not all pedals not to add noise to the audio signal when in bypass mode, whether true or buffered bypass.
@@tehcovmeme I’ve paid around 100 dollars or more to plenty of pedal manufacturers who have noisy pedals when daisy chaining. Which is why the industry in general moved to isolated power. This is in issue in many pedals and brands even in more “expensive” ones which is why the “don’t daisy chain” advice even exists in the first place. Many boss pedals, which ARE quality devices, especially the digital ones cause plenty of noise when daisy chained, and they are all over 100 bucks. So why are we zeroing in on WA when this is an “issue” among tons of brands, and no one says anything about it besides “oh better not daisy chain”.
I've just tested with a few other pedals: the Ditto, BOSS OD-200, BOSS EQ-200, TC Quintessence, EHX Bass9 - guess what, no digital noise! But OK, a pedal can only be be as good as the used power supply. All my power supplies are high quailty - the best is the Cioks DC7. Maybe I should do a follow up video and explain some basics and why daisy chain is not a bad thing in general. I stumbled across the issue because I'm using the 9V outlet of my old tuner and on that pedalboard I have only two 500mA slots and some 100mA slots. And no, I don't want to invest another 150-200 bucks in a new power supply only because a company isn't able to do things right.
Also ich find das recht quatschig! Ich weiß nicht, ob ich das richtig verstanden habe: Dein einziges Problem ist, dass das Gerät Störgeräusche macht, wenn man es mit irgendwelchen komischen Daisy Chain kontruktionen versorgt? Daisy Chains sind eh der reinste Quark und da sollte jeder Gitarrist wissen, dass man sich immer gleich eine richtige Stromversorgung besorgen sollte. Wenn das nicht dein Punkt war, klär mich auf!
Naja, bei vielen Tunern (BOSS, TC, Peterson) musste man bisher keinen separaten 9V Anschluss verbraten, da diese einen zweiten Anschluß zur Verfügung stellen, der als DaisyChain also parallel verschaltet war. Von einem Tuner, der von sich behauptet einer der besten am Markt zu sein, würde ich wiederum erwarten, dass Grundfunktionen problemlos verwendet werden können. Leider weicht das Pedal hier vom Industriestandard ab, das betrifft zwar nicht jeden, ist aber meiner Meinung nach ein Zeichen mangelnder Qualität. So kann ich meinen alten Tuner nicht einfach ersezten, da alle 5 Netzteilanschlüsse bereits belegt sind. Ich müsste also nochmal 150-200EUR in ein neues Netzteil investieren, da der Hersteller hier geschlampt hat. Das Problem tritt übrigens auch auf, wenn sich der Tuner im True-Bypass oder Mute Modus befindet. Ich denke unsere Aufgabe ist auch der Musikindustrie mitzuteilen, dass nicht alles bedingungslos akzeptiert wird - nur so erhalten wir bessere Produkte! Gerne kaufe ich den Nachfolger, wenn er Lage ist die Spannungsversorgung nicht mehr zu verschmutzen - technisch ist das machbar!
man who dont have isolated power supply today ?
I don't know - I'm only using isolated power supplies for a very long time. The thing is that I don't want to waste one outlet for a tuner...
Pedals dumping clock noise on ground has been an issue for what... 30 years? Even that famous Small Stone did it and yes, it's frigging annoying. For good measures I isolate everything, except maybe analog boosters, overdrives, wah,...
Isn't it finally time to make things better? The first cell phones were like bricks without a display - we live in the present! And btw. I don't know any other tuner with a digital noise issue, so tthey have introduced something for tuners that is absolutely annoying...
I honestly don't understand all the daisy chain comments.
Are people so used to poorly designed digital pedals (whether due to penny pinching, lack of testing, lack of oversight or otherwise) that they assume that noise is unavoidable if daisy chained?
I design and build my own pedals for my personal use, both analog and digital ( using a variety of parts eg. Rpi, pi zero 2 w, esp32 & other mcus) with some forethought, careful design and regular testing and revisions these issues can nearly always be eliminated .
Who in their right minds, or are serious players, uses a daisy chain?????
All with an 'old' tuner and a pedal connected to the 9V out of the tuner if available - that's daisy chain too! I should have explained this in more detail in the video.
This was a brilliant video. I am sorry that most guitar aficionados aren't the most brilliant people out there, but you really excelled. So thank you.
1:28 This speed test was the sh¡t!
Thanks a lot 🙏 Positive comments on this video are pretty rare - some fanboys don't understand that it's important to name bad things in order to get better prodcuts.
The problem with your review is you don't identify what power supply you are using and at what rated power output ? also I would never use a daisy chain power supply vs a good quality Isolated power supply with any of my pedal boards today, this seems to be a problem only when going cheap on how you are powering your board, also mixing analogue and digital pedals requires a good isolated high output power supply to avoid these kinds of problems.
Well, I'm using only high quality power supplies with isolated outputs, that one has 500mA. I think I'll do a follow up video and explain the problem in more detail with some test of other digital pedals that do not pollute the voltage.
Hey @RockGuitarVibes
These types of videos are really helpful and I am very thankful for them. Of course everyone commenting ist totally right about not using a digital pedal in a daisy chain setting. But this just isn't the whole story what makes a product perfect or not. Just because all the youtubers and gear nerds can afford hughe boards and expensive Cioks supplies doesn't mean that its for everybody. When I was a kid, I was able to use a TU-2, a Blues Driver, DS-1 and even a Boss DD-6 all daisy chained with a 1-Spot PSU wiht absolutely no problems. Well, If one wants to have a personal wallpaper on the board and therefore buy a 200.- Cioks it's just fine - but please someone should point this issue out! And you did - and that's what I like about this video!
Who still daisy chains in 2023?
Possibly those who don't want to buy new stuff every year ;-) Personally I don't want to waste one of my rare 500mA slots on a single device when I could easily use it to power two other pedals.
Every professional musician and technician out there. I mean, those who actually know what they are doing.
Even a CIOKS 7, and most power bricks, clearly come with a 3 output daisy chain cable from factory (very useful for overdrives and a few other analogue pedals, including most tuners...)
So I don't really know what the heck you were talking about with such passion.
Bedroom musicians also need daisy chains. It is useful and has nothing wrong to it (when used properly).
As stated already. Digital pedals shoild always be isolated. All tuners are digital these days. If it requires more power there are more features and processing. You may get away with it with a cheap amazon tuner... or not for other reasons.
Ok, so if you are an expert in electronics please explain in detail why the issue does not occur with my Peterson tuner or with my TC Polytune or with other some digital pedals I've already tested - thanks in advance!
Just so you know all the comments on daisy chain are bots.
These bots should learn how to dislike a video twice 😀
if you’re ok with daisychaining you probably shouldn’t be using digital pedals
OK, so why does my TC PolyTune and Peterson StroboStomp don't have that issue?
As soon as i heard daisychain i knew he was trippin😂
OK, so why does my TC PolyTune and Peterson StroboStomp don't have that issue?
bro, you're tripping.
The thing is I'm not willing to spent over 150 bucks for a tuner which is worse than other tuners regarding daisychaining. I would love to keep that thing because of its feature set - but IMHO the mentioned issue is a major limitation. I am sorry if I have not expressed myself clearly enough! And if any YT video had pointed this out, I wouldn't have bought that tuner.
Yeah man there’s still time to take this video down.
Sorry, currently I don't see any reason for that...
Terrible take. Invest in an isolated power supply.
Hm, you possibly haven't watched the video in full to understand...
I am a bit confused. When using a daisy chain power supply, you knowingly introduce feedback noise into multiple audio device pedals. This is exactly the opposite of what all manufacturers recommend. I think this pedal stops you from daisy-chaining power and helps stop you from propagating noisy power. Are you considering this a fault? I guess you have the same issue with a car forcing you to wear seatbelts. It appears as if you are using the pedal against the manufacturer's recommendation, and then complain about it. Sorry, but I will downvote your video and block your channel to avoid such brainless drivel.
Well, the pedal was announced as a high quality device and one of the best tuners on the market. Of course I really like the feature set, but the basics should work as well. From a tuner I don't expect any noise emissions back to the power supply - it's avoidable and also a sign of high quality. Isn't it an industry standard to share power with the tuner - as tuners from the biggest brands (BOSS, TC, Peterson) easily offer a daisy chain connection without any issues?
I really don't understand why you guys are willing to accept such things - without any complaints, no product will get better. Our job is to tell the industry what's needed. Even if it's hard for some fanboys to accept criticism, it can finally lead to better products and that's what we all want! I would love to buy that pedal again if the issue is solved but by naming the issue in the manual does not make it a better product! I'm in doubt if you would accept your next car without reverse gear if it was mentioned anywhere in the manual....
Junk
Not quite sure if they stopped selling - just noticed that it isn't listed any longer at Thomann...
Ooof. What a terrible hot take - At least you got the views you wanted.
The thing is, I simply want a better product, and others seem to agree 😮
@@RockGuitarVibes A very, very few people agree with you. Go through your page and check the likes - they aren't in defense of you and your shockingly pedantic view of daisy chaining.
Well, the video has over 100 likes 🤔 Anyway, congratulations if the tuner is good enough for your use case, it's just useless for mine...
@@RockGuitarVibes 5.4 thousand views and hundred likes. Yeah - people are falling over to agree with you. That is sarcasm.
Well, if more people would have a deeper knowledge about electronics, I'm sure more would agree... BTW: The like rate is pretty normal for my channel.
If you're going to have a youtube channel dedicate to guitar gear, you should know better than to daisy chain pedals, especially with digital pedals. This isn't an issue, this is user error.
I'm used to daisy chain my tuner simply because most tuners offer that possibility by a 9V out jack. I'm of course aware of noise issues with digital pedals - but with a Tuner, really? As mentioned in ihe video Peterson and TC don't have any issue - why does a tuner released in 2023 isn't able to handle this? The Poytune was released more than 10 years ago! IMHO a new pedal should be no worse than its predecessors - however, regarding daisychaining it is and that's a technical fact...sorry for pointing this out!
This is a bizarre viewpoint. My $20 Amazon StageRight tuner has no issue being used with a daisy chained power supply.
The noise here isn’t a fact of life. It’s an engineering cost saving decision when Walrus designed the circuit. Making excuses for crappy engineering design in a $200 boutique tuner pedal is wild.
@@mattc2674yes that tuner doesnt have that problem cause it doesnt have like 90% of the features of the canvas. So doesnt need 300mah either.
It’s not really an error … he tried both. He’s aware that this is an issue w some digital pedals. He clearly understands what’s going on here.
He’s just pointing out that this particular pedal really is unusually awful in a daisy chain, which is what some people use to power their boards.
@@RockGuitarVibesthose tuners aren’t also an LED display and mini computer. This needs a bit more juice my man.
Such a non issue. Nowhere near “major.” What a joke of a channel.
For me it's a major issue because I can't use it without getting noise - I think I already explained this in detail in other comments...and no, I'm not willing to spend another 150-200 bucks on a new puwer supply when I'm already using a very good one.
@@RockGuitarVibes not sure I’d categorize a non-isolated power supply as being “a good one” in this day and age. Time to upgrade, sir.
@@jeffmco6410 I'm already using a isolated power supply - but with a daisy chain cable because all 5 outlets are already in use...
Tuner pedals are inherently digital. Of course you're going to get noise if you daisy chain. This one just happens to be noisier.
Hm, never had any issue with my TC PolyTune or Peterson StroboStomp...
Apparently lots of guitar players are also electrical engineers judging from the comments in this video 😂
That's nonsense. Most other tuners even give you a courtesy outlet (Boss TU-3, Polytune, Korg tuners, Peterson, Turbo Tuner). You know what a courtesy outlet is? It's daisy chain, literally. And all of those have ZERO issues being daisy chained to a pedal or two. What's not inherently common is having a tuner that sucks up 300 mA of power like Canvas does. That's just pointless waste for a goofy colorful LCD screen so you can put a photo of your dog on it or whatever. It's goofy and cringe.
Pointless clickbait video.
Nope, isn't it an industry standard to share power with the tuner - as tuners from the biggest brands (BOSS, TC, Peterson) easily offer a daisy chain connection without any issues? BTW: I'm not interested in clickbait - for me it's a major issue because I can't replace my TC Polytune with this one, no idea what's so hard to understand! And btw it looks like Thomann (the biggest European reseller) stopped selling 🤯anyway, I wish all the fanboys who already bought that thing and are lucky with it all the best. And if you ever run into noise issues you may remember this video.
@@RockGuitarVibes You really don’t get it. Who cares what industry standard is. The OEM has stated not to do this. Essentially saying, “this product deviates from industry standards, in the following way…..” yet you didn’t see this, and are now doubling down rather than admitting you screwed up and didn’t read the manual correctly.
Why don’t you change the title of your video to: “The Canvas Tuner doesn’t do this thing that the manufacturer says not to do.” You are dense, that’s for sure.
@@rh50412 Ok, so if the pedal would have no 9V jack and only USB and it's mentioned in the manual that the power comes from USB only, it's all good and nobody would complain 🤣General rule: naming bad things in the manual does not make a product better, yes you are right I simply don't get it 🤕 even if I cited the manual in the video 😎
BTW: Thumbnail title: 'Great tuner but...'