Plan to hit 4 w/kg | How to...
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- I have one goal this year and thats to finally be at or over 4 w/kg as a man in his 40's. This summer hasnt been the best in terms of performance and honestly with all the rain and bad weather is hasnt made for inspiring or motivational cycling.
I quite simply havent done enough quality miles and have opted for enjoyable rides with friends with the occasional smash. There has been no structure to my training and ive even stopped doing Zwift races.
This is about to change and we have one last ditch effort to get over the 4 w/kg mark in the next 16 weeks with a good structured training program.
Time to build some power on the bike.
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Super excited to see how you get on Max, you can keep us abreast of your progress. Enjoy the journey, we'll be watching 😁
👌🏽🙌🙌🙌🙌
Thanks Chris & Jesse, will keep you updated
This is my project for the upcoming winter-/indoor seasean as well. I managed to get to 3,7-3,8 w/kg late Spring this year but a fear that this has dropped a bit! Closing in on being 60 years old it might be a real struggle to get to 4,0 w/kg, giving the amount of time I have to train for this, but I will not let it go without giving it a serious try! You, on the other hand, I'm sure will make it! Looking forward to follow your progression and hopefully I will see you back on Zwift. 🙂
I’ve had a few Zwift races this last week and as usual, absolutely love them. Completely lost my sprint legs though, but feel like I’m building from a better place this year. So let’s see
@@thewattlife Same here! Done a few test races with the new catagory system on Zwift and discovered that I have no sprint. Managed to hang on to the front of cat 600-650 all the way to the sprint but had nothing left!
Looking forward to seeing how you get on 👌 consistency and sustainability is key
For what it’s worth over my first year of cycling I saw the biggest gains and finally hit 4 w/kg (326w) after a cycling trip to Tenerife and then 2 solid months of doing long rides every weekend with some guys training for the Mallorca 312 + a few hard interval sessions per week 🙂
Nice, hope it works for you. I'm kind of stuck at 3.8 w/kg during rides and races. My improvement this year is on longer rides like 2 -3 hour rides outside. Will try to focus on ftp after summer with more frequent Zwift racing.
This is the same as me- just getting back into Zwift racing and made a few other changes, let’s see if I can level up
i managed it a few years ago in my late 40's. not too fussed now as it took over my life. i now sit at around 3.5w/kg and im far happier. good luck in your quest.
Already feels like a big trade off- the enjoyment disappears when you have to do 120 min sessions
I actually see the 4w/kg as less of a performance goal (heck I don’t care one bit about racing 😂😂), but more of a metabolic health goal.
If Peter Attia puts 3w/kg as your z2 to be a safe region, I’d dare say that if I can hit 4, I should be in the ballpark of that lol. Well, that, and strength and mobility work as well when off the bike for a balanced workout
In a similar position Max. Came out of ZRL just after xmas then pootled around on zwift a bit, desperate to get outside but the weather has been so wet up here in Scotland, plus some social trips and visitors, so not much riding. Retrospectively it is a good thing, just does not feel that way. In Strava I have kept my Fitness.. the rolling 90 day thing, between 65 and 80 for the past 4 years it is currently at about 28! However, my body does feel rested, so I get the fatigue thing that you mention and it does creep up on you. Having been there before, your body will get back there quicker, it will remember. Stick to the plan and do the periodisation properly, at the very least you will find out if it works or does not work for you, which in itself will be good entertainment for us viewers. Try not to get to the end of it saying, 'I wish I had followed the rest days properly!!' (Having done such a plan I was a bit disappointed at the end of it, (3 cycles of 3 weeks), but after about 2 weeks of completing it, hit the ZRL season in September and got upgraded to CAT at the end of it! Very difficult for me to maintain that though, I have over a decade on you, and not sure a sustained 4w/kg is still in my toolkit. Scrap your goal of 4w/kg, follow the plan then see what you have at the end, else you run the risk of not putting your faith in your coach or the plan.
Ftp is everything but its a goal to strive for. I've been pretty focused on my coaches plan for nearly a year now and the improvement are massive. But you have to make some sacrifices. I was a lighter guy a year ago from being a long distance runner but now I've gained some more muscle and my tt times which is my focus have lowered and lowered. So good luck and enjoy the process 👍
Oufff- I’ve never been able to get into TT, but I want one of my goals to be 4 w/kg for a 60 min test and well as a ramp test
I trained hard for the Fred this year in January working with a coach. Since the event though I really struggled to carry on training and after a couple of weeks it decided to drop the coach an enjoy my summer cycling. This video has just compounded what I’ve been thinking for a couple of weeks and fire the training back up to get ready for next years events
Looks like we’re in this together Russ!!! Glad I’m not alone, but I have to say, forgetting the training and just enjoying it is a hell of a lot of fun
@@thewattlife absolutely it is matey 😍 but when you forget about adaptations and having a rest then go out for a biggish ride in the heat and hit the wall then it’s a different game 😂 I done this last Friday on the back of ridding for 2 weeks straight 😂
47 years old and currently at 3.7w/kg after 23 years off the bike, smoking, drinking, no cardio, asthma (which i never had as a teenager racing), basically a mess, been back on bike 2.5 years but have only been doing structured training since Feb, so basically 5 months, weight back down to 66kg, lift weights aswel as ride, approx 8hrs a week over 5 or 6 days ride time (all I can do due to work commitments), looking to get to 5w/kg
At man- ok, let me get 4w/kg done first then I’ll join you on the mega journey. Structured training is going to be the big difference to me
I thought you were already there just seeing how you ride and your appearance. My fav riding is literally 1-1.5hr TT's and absolutely blowing myself up for what has been almost the entirety of my training this past year with the exception of riding 38 of the last 43days all at 72-75% max HR due to it being 80f+ and no lie 90%+ every single morning. Im not a runner but everyones heard of a "runners high", I totally get this ONLY when sustaining high power for at the very min like ~20 and it lasts for about an hour, which is why I like going as hard as I can for that time period. do 1 or 2 1hr TTs a week for a month and you'll crack 300 no problem. hopping on the bike now cheers.
I'm 43 at 4.1-4.2 wkg... I think racing on Zwift helps alot and uphill tempo rides on long 15-20km climbs
On Zwift,The Grade climb will now automatically calculate your FTP. Have you tried it and if so what do you think.
As a 57 kg 57 year old every day cyclist my best( Standing all the way cause it works for me )is 266 W FTP or 307w for the climb at 11.11
It can be done 4wkg !!
Will have to give this a go once I’ve finished my training plan and see how do
Good luck mate. You've got this one I'm sure. Sticking to the program is key.
Thanks man, going to have to knuckle down and get it done
FTP 270 body weight 67kg = 4wKg simple as that, no more £4 cookies 😂
But Costco cookies 7.99 for 24 👀👀🚴🚴
Imagine if it was just that easy. Imagine if you were 185cm tall? 😮
More power >> less weight
In cycling but also more importantly in general life
Now add the bike and water bottle weight
And you bike? You forgot that. 67kg. You must be 4ft or skinny AF
I got within 4 watts of this last year then got COVID twice in 3 months and haven't got quite back to it since especially now I've whacked on 4 kilos from the gym (and iced coffees)! Good luck it's just high intensity consistency that did it for me, summer endurance definitely eats into it as well like you said rather than zwift Luckily it's quite hilly here so I can spend 15 mins pushing on quite easily in tempo. Also I've thrown in lower body and core strength this season so keen to see what relates to come zwift race season
The Zwift racing was great for FTP results- but then long summer rides have killed my power. So I have to shift things up a bit
rule is that you round up if your within 5 watts,
Looking forward to your training plan and accomplishments that you will achieve with it!
Thank you
How many hours do you do per week ? I gained well in my first year but the last 6 months I just found out I gained nothing at all. I don't do a huge amount. I have quite a few weeks where I'll maybe do 4- 5 hours and then a couple of weeks where I maybe only do 2 -3 hours and seems like maybe I'm gaining some fitness and then losing it on low volume weeks. I went from maybe 150ftp to 190 - 200 ftp in a year but in the last 6 months I seem to be the same and stuck at the bottom of cat C. I managed 7.5 hours this week so hoping if i could get in some more hours I finally improve.
You've got this!
Thank you man- going ok so far!!!
Naturally weigh 85kg, when I cut maybe get to 80kg. So having an FTP of 320 for me is a pipe dream. 😢 Good luck
I almost hate getting caught up in numbers but turns out just enjoying riding your bike doesnt get you anywhere in performance terms.
can be done, 4w/kg rider at 43 and and ex smoker for 20 years
Inspiration, i imagine consistency plays a big role huh
@@thewattlife i try to bike between 150 and 200 miles a week. 80% zone 2, 3.
20% hard efforts lasting about 30 mins to 2 hours
I think for your particular situation it might be having to choose which sport you want to excel in and do the other sport for fun...
Yes, I’ve definitely decided against running and focusing on the cycling as I’ve just struggled to fall back in love with running race s
Looking forward to seeing the prescribed training plan 🙂
Been riding for a little more than a year I’m 1,83 83kg and 4,1 w/kg ftp. No secrets, just go hard 2/3 times a week and do a lot of volume
5.1 for me.
I once wanted to be at 4w/kg so bad, and I’m just here to say to the boys you can do it and then some. Keep pushing, keep focus. Get a coach and get a realistic race weight. If I can do it so can you.
Thanks for the inspiration- love to see it and hear it. Gotta believe it, looking forward to this journey
Did I miss what the starting watts/kg were at? I saw the 270 FTP but may have missed the body weight or w/kg.
I also wrongly assumed this video might actually show some results than just a coach generically talking about the universally accepted 80/20 principle.
I just started seriously cycling and training in March after being a running hobbiest. Through 80/20 structured training I moved from 3 w/kg to 3.6 w/kg over 4ish months.
I got to 3.9 w/kg just before Spring.
Weight is about 77kg atm. So at the moment I’m way down around 3.4/3.5 .
Next one will have a lot more session information
@@thewattlife van aert esque
Strict lower to mid zone 2 for 2 weeks with fasting or carb restriction, then a load of rice, potatoes and beetroot for two days, then an FTP test!
A bunch of zone 2 rides ain't gonna get you stronger. It can build a base, but once you go over 4 watts per kilo it's also about strength not just endurance.
All the zone 2 and volume I’ve done over the summer has put me in good stead for longer endurance based rides.
My nutritional needs have dropped slightly but I’ve also lost all power and leg strength so time to build that up with shorter efforts, some big gear work and strength training
The watts/kg is a very misleading metrics in cycling especially for amateurs. Your heart and lung won't get bigger or smaller with your body weight -- to be precisely the fat weight. They are independent of each other. You should tackle those two things separately. You should focus more on the absolute power or absolute VO2max when you talk about "training", and treat the weight problem separately. You train to increase the absolute power, not to lose weight. You diet for weight, and should not expect a power increase. IF you gain 10% power and in the same time gain 10% weight, does that mean your training is ineffective? No way. Or the other way around if you lose 5% power but also lost 10% weight (for example, from sickness), does that mean your training is successful? No way, your training probably is wrong. If you treat these two problems separately you'll be much more peace of mind and have a much more cleared view of how to access the training progress and not to get too frustrated or confused. That watts/kg only works well because all those pros are all on their individual edge -- when you compare Pogacha's edge with Jonnas's edge, this is very useful. But for someone who's not on the edge, just use the raw power when talking about "training". BTW your power is already very good. 360W is not something that is easily achievable for most people. That means if you somehow survived a labor camp and starved to 60kg or something you'll be at the pro level. You can just diet to get that watts/kg -- no training involved. But you also have to know that's not a fitness/training gain. It's just weight loss which is a different process.
I’m not really worried about my weight as loosing weight would be quite hard as I have to loose muscle from my upper body.
My goal is to up my strength and fitness. This I’ll do through training I’m not trying to drop weight to hit my goal, I’m trying to pick my fitness back up
In my experience Ramp Up FTP tests are inaccurate, especially for someone who is more anaerobic in nature. Reddit and youtube is full of people who score 20-30% higher on a ramp test compared to a traditional 1hr FTP test. When I first did a ramp test I scored 230w with 0 cycling training before and after 1 year of training I still doubt I could bike at that power for 1hr as I averaged 210w in my first 40km triathlon race and finished in 1hr 16min
If your ramp test didn't improve after a year of training I'd suggest the same as I did in a post higher to OP. You're probably overheating indoors and that is limiting your performance. In OPs case to me that's the fact that he hits 180 HR outside but doesn't get close inside. Sweat dripping on the floor is not cooling you and if you're not being cooled then your body will limit your performance - literally, without a fan, a z2 pace indoors can have you sweating buckets and feeling like a big effort. Of course we all have some kind of fan, but if it's not powerful we can still hit an upper limit that's below our physical capability. That said, there are other factors in HR and the goal in cycling is no more about trying to hit a high HR than it is about trying to hit a specific w/kg figure.
w/kg is a bit of curse imo, it was a metric invented to give a ballpark idea of comparing the performance of elite cyclists and its become misused. Zwift adopting it as a performance metric for how fast bicycles move in their virtual world hasn't helped there. This is especially true when comparing more normal human beings rather than just lean, highly trained, elite athletes. In a lean, elite athlete, of course most of their weight is going towards creating power.In normal population people have typically just got excess fat. So zwift has created this thing where a fat guy is expected to output the power of an elite sprinter just to ride along with a lighter guy because of their weights and the notion of w/kg. But obviously fat doesn't produce power into the pedals. So obviously people have to do the only thing they can and pretend they're lighter. Similarly if you are emaciated and weak but the 160 watts you can produce is near to 4 w/kg that doesn't make you a strong elite cyclist.
@@michael1 Hey Michael, I said in the original comment that I scored 230w on a ramp-up test with no cycling experience. But then after a 8 months of training when I did my first triathlon race, I averaged 210w in 1:16 hr outdoors, which still was lower than 230w estimation I had received during my first week on Zwift. However, when I did 1 hour FTP test and got 160w estimate, that was way more accurate and closer to my actual power output ability outdoors. And I do have a very strong fan, which on the lowest setting makes me cold when I'm training in Zone 2 :D
Sorry to say that ramp test is not accurate for ftp (1h, even 30 minutes).
If you are anaerobically oriented ramp test FTP will be too high.
I can realistically hold 30W less than my ramp test FTP durations
I think that ramp tests are inaccurate but in my experience, pretty much all training programs seem to prescribe based on your FTP and the level matches quite nicely with FTP from ramp tests. ie. something that should be maximal is maximal. FTP is just a number and I think that a lot of training prescriptions might be a bit easy if they were based on "true" FTPs.
I think the end goal will be to hold 4 w/kg for a ramp test and a 20 min test. Then we’ll see if I can hold it for an actual 60 min effort t
At 52, and 83kg, I am at around 3.5 w/kg and range between 285 - 300 watts ftp.
To be honest, at my age I don't think I can get much above that. I've been cycling for 4 years and got to this level within one year after starting, and now I just hover around that mark.
I think that's my peak.
Nothing to be ashamed about. How many 50+ riders could ever dream of getting to that level. . .
Are you riding 15-20 hours a week for 8-12 week blocks with a good mix of high intensity sessions? 98% of adults can't or won't do that, but that's generally what it takes to find out what your peak is.
@@AndrewisTri-tn1uo I guess what I should have said is, I'm at my peak for what I can physically do each week. I can't, and don't want to dedicate 15-20 hours a week to cycling. One because I don't have the time, and secondly because I also weight train and wouldn't be able to recover
I do train up to 10 - 12 hours a week, with two sessions a week being a mix of vo2 max and sweetspot/threshold, and the rest being zone 2.
I think doing 15 - 20 hours a week would suck all the fun and passion out of cycling.
I would guess I would say that I’m at my peak for what I bring myself to care to do each week.
6-7 hrs structured is all I can bare to do; the rest of the time I’d rather do actual fun stuff like watching TV and gaming.
@@slowcyclist4324 Yep, this is the reality of it. Most people simple don't have the time or want to spend the time training to get past X w/kg. I would like to hit 4w/kg but I don't know how likely that is with my lifestyle and somewhat haphazard approach to training. I want to be fitter to enjoy my cycling more. So I can go further, faster. There comes a point though were you have to put X hours into dedicated training to get better and when the weather is nice I just want to go and ride my bike.
Meanwhile I am currently at 4w/kg at 200 watts. I know that its a great feat but somewhat I feel lacking.
Ouff. I’m 77 kg at the moment so I gotta gain watts as I don’t have a huge amount of weight to loose
Can you tell us here you are starting? I'm guessing around 3.70 to 3.75 as you look around 72kg. If the number is private then forgive the question. I'm not 100% sure what is off limits in the cycling world either.
I’m about 77kg and think that I will perhaps end a few KG lighter if I can stick to all the training.
Will have to do a full break down in my next vid on this after I’ve got a few weeks of training and Zwift racing back.
I am frankly a little shocked that you tapped out at 160+ HR. Isn’t that z3/ threshold? I’m pretty sure that you had more to give tbh.
Some people have a max hr of 150 at 30yo, others 210 at 50
Certainly HR’s are very unique to each person.
But yes I think I did tap out early, however it was because my legs were really cooked.
All the base miles I’ve done have left me with it h a good level of base fitness, I’m lacking the strength and power. So this is what I need to work back in and improve
You gonna come play with the ZRL monsters in A cat later in the year? We're always looking for team mates...
Definintely in for ZRL BUT might still be cutting my teeth in Cat B. Lets see how the next 12 weeks go
Do 2-3 sweet spot workouts a week. That'll get you to a 4 w/kg FTP
The intensity has already been helping. I agree though, you can skip your interval or tempo training
Current ftp is 4.7w/kg self coached.. goal for 2025 is to pass that 5 w/kg barrier! 🤞
Damn son!!! To the moon
at what W/kg number do you start. I have seen those 270 W - but at which body weight?
I’m about 3.6 at the moment. I’ve dropped a bit of fitness.
Weight is 77kg and I think my FTP ramp test was a little low as had done a few races the day before
@@thewattlife thanks; I will watch your journey - interesting!
The temptation of doing a backwards cap DJ's style was too much here 😅
It just felt right!!!
At least with the general riding you will have a good base to build on.
This has definitely helped. I feel like I have a strong base so just been to get serious and sharpen up the top end and the power
Would be nice with some subtitles on the coach
For the next one sure
My was able to do that after losing all my upper body muscles lol, and doing 400-800 TSS a week
Haha this is what I’m going to have to do
Great vid. Good luck. 👍
P.s. it's pronounced "watts per kilo" (not 'watts per k g". 😜
kilogram to be precise 😶🌫️
I always thought k g is an american thing because most have no clue what it means. 😬
My experience is that polarised training (80%-20%) is not optimum for maximising ftp. I would use threshold-type training. to maximise ftp, you need to have 1 or two long efforts per week just under that level. Other rides could be 90 min, small gear, flat out. Plus one longer ride per week. I wouldn’t do any short intervals. I wouldn’t do 3 weeks build, one recovery. I’d look to improve week by week. You can definitely enjoy riding while doing this.
Agreed, in the end of the day its all about creating enough stimulus and being able to recover from that. How you achieve that comes down to your individual physiology and external factors like time available to train, stress levels etc. There's no denying volume works though and often the only way to handle large volume consistently over a decent period of time is to train at low intensities most of the time.
I haven’t sat down and gone over interval lengths yet, and honestly, I don’t think my 1 min or 3 min power will be much different as I don’t feel particularly strong at the moment. So I think I’d gravitate to slightly longer efforts.
I think you can improve week on week, but I do quite like having down weeks, mentally they are quite important
@@thewattlife I’d do much longer intervals The best one for me was 1x40 min. That would really work. Week on week improvement for many months. Good luck.
You can get to 4w/kg by just riding consistently, you don’t need to do anything special. If you want to reach 5w/kg or more, than you need to put in some serious work and dedication
I think this does depend. I’m 42 in a few weeks, yes, maybe when I was in my 20’s or even 30’s I used to be able to gain fitness just by looking at someone exercise. It is a bit more difficult nowadays
I guess this strongly depends on your genetics. I am just riding for nearly two decades and ever since I measured my power I'm yet to reach 4W/kg. One or two times I got very close but not by just riding but a strict training regime and best possible healthy eating habits. And I'm just now at the age of 36. I'm glad for you that this is how it works. But be aware that it isn't necessarily a common thing and such posts can be a bit of a kick in the guts for less talented people like me.
Oh no! Not the fun stuff!
Do you have fun?
You said, “nothing style, just riding my bike.”
Train on a Vintage Steel Road Bike With Downtube Shifters,
Race on your Carbon All Singing & Dancing Road Bike. 🖖
Why? Watts are watts. The only difference doing 400 watts on the steel bike vs 400 watts on the carbon is the speed that you will be moving the bike.
@@roadcyclist1 Exactly. Never understood this. "Ride on a rubbish bike so you aren't as comfortable on your good bike and then race on the good bike...".
If you want to make hills harder, ride them faster or use a harder gear. The only difference riding a heavy bike will make is that you can't "choose" to go as easy but anyone who is doing this for performance is unlikely to have that issue.