Correction*** Flying models can move over enemy units during a charge. However, if they cannot reach the enemy unit they have declared as the target (because of an intervening unit) then the charge fails. So you can use Rangers to prevent flying units from charging certain targets if you place them close enough to their target.
Firstly, I really like your videos mostly, you're enthusiastic, visually interesting and usually have interesting takes, even if I'm not a huge fan of the click-bait titles, I guess you've gotta play the algorithm right? I try to be positive but it sort of seems like every video I get about 15 minutes in before there's some mistake in the rules that significantly invalidates what you're saying. EG in this case, for the rangers to be an effective screen against flying, they need to be within ~2" of the target unit. In that situation, most flying combat armies will quite happily multicharge. Otherwise, they need to make the target unit un-engageable, which a 5 man unit of rangers is probably going to struggle to do unless it's a pretty long charge or a pretty small target. It's a really significant misunderstanding of the rules for fly. Which in most cases it won't be. Mostly, the opponent will either have advance and charge, reroll charge, or be coming out of rapid ingress with a 12" move. It's extremely difficult to fully screen anything you'd want to screen with 5 rangers against that. The way to manage combat armies is the same as it's always been for Eldar - trade well. Put your rangers in a spot where you opponent has to deal with them, far away from something else. I'll comment elsewhere how I've been using rangers well against melee armies, but I'd really love it if you could double check your content, maybe slow it down a bit.
Fly actually does work in the Charge Phase as well. It's in the Charge Phase section CHARGING WITH FLYING MODELS When a model that can FLY starts or ends a Charge move on a terrain feature, instead of measuring the path it has moved across the battlefield, you instead measure its path ‘through the air’. In addition, it can be moved over other models as if they were not there. A model that can FLY cannot end any move on top of another model.
Big help! My brothers and I are getting into warhammer, and they chose the orks and space wolves, while I chose the superior faction 💪. Thunderwolves, quadruple melee dreadnaughts, and meganobz. So many thanks!
So stoked to watch this, got a very competitive 1 v 1 coming up and am playing my first full good balanced aeldari list. All I was missing was how to slow down those death guard!
Just got back from my first game with my Aeldari, and it was vs Orks; Scorpions and Banshees made easy work of them! Dope videos by the way, keep it up 👍
Hey really like the new addition of diagrams und the strategy discussion. Mind making a vid about good Farseer use and placement, especially with the foot Farseer I struggle with good battlefield placement. Mostly use furtune only on himself or he dies when he is placed more aggresively to support a unit.
I’d be happy to help! I usually have mine in the back behind a ruin and he advances up to the next piece of terrain on turn 1. He rarely lives unless your opponent has better targets
Hey proxy, been loving your content! One request though, if you could make your cursor or temp marker tool visible when you do the diagram explanations I would find it much easier to follow - anyhow keep up the great work :}
@@ProxyHammer1 Yea that definitely would help! Although especially when describing interactions with terrain, movement lanes and firing angles I reckon any visual indication would be a great help
Something I realized too late during my only game against BA, is that killing the character they use to double the damage output of their assault units (captain or sanguinary priest) is a good method to counter them. Death Jester or Rangers possibly with Illic are good for this
I defeated a 120 Jakal army with Angron and 2 daemon princes at an RTT this weekend by creating a kill box. I funneled them into a choke point and just laid 8 shuriken cannons, & 12 splinter rifles into them and 10 dark lances into Angron and the princes. 10/10 would never play that guy again 😂
@@ProxyHammer1 I’ve held off for months on Fire Dragons due to their models but gave in yesterday and got a box. Gonna proxy Fuegan with the Exarch and give them a run out next week. Never struggled vs armour but I reckon they’ll be insane vs my Grey Knight opponent
TLDR: Use Rangers to pull opponents away from where they want to be - either because they're in the way, or because they score you too many points. Been getting decent success early edition with Fixed secondaries, playing a combo of engage, BEL, and assassinate/bring it down depending on the match up. I like fixed this pack because the actions are brutal for high cost armies. My argument is that the best use of rangers is to screen turn 1 moves and charges, especially pushing your opponent in a direction they don't want to go, and then to score fixed secondaries unless your opponent kills them, which is easier said than done. Obviously this works better in different deployments and against different armies (horde armies or armies with lots of infiltrators are more annoying here, but in those situations the secondaries change up too, very happy culling hordes at 5 points a throw). Firstly, rangers power as a very cheap way to totally invalidate enemy scouts is beautiful, especially if they don't have infiltrators as it means I can drop my rangers last and massively deny that movement. Rangers themselves can be very annoying to deal with for melee armies if you play them for fixed objectives. I will typically use path of the outcast and potentially phantasm to try to pull a melee unit away from other stuff, or to put it in a place where I want it for my turn. If the opponent tries to shoot them, generally, to kill them they will need to put something worthwhile in. Looking at marine options, they don't die to incidental fire (scouts, pistols from 5 man squads, impulsor shooting, I mean if you're lucky they can reasonably live through a lancer). Similar across the board - stealth is a very powerful rule and if they have cover they can be extremely difficult to shift outside of huge volume of fire and as far as I can tell there are basically no units that are less than double their points cost that can kill them with shooting, that wouldn't be fairly easy to deploy away from or LOS. If they don't go after them, my rangers will score me VP, and likely be positioned to attempt to crack some wounds off a character. Worth noting that going second, rangers can very reliably move 20" for 3 CP, which puts you absolutely plum for 7 points if you have engage and BEL with a 55 point sacrificial lamb - much more appealing than warp spiders for the role. I mean they for sure die in this situation, but it's tasty. And if I go first, my rangers are getting where they want and scoring me 4+ secondary, then the enemy has to kill them or I do it again next turn, probably bumping it up to 7 or even 8, and as I mentioned, the combination of absurd movement shenanigans, stealth, 5++ means that they do usually take some concerted effort to kill, especially for combat armies without much shooting. Just keep them away from flamers, which I feel could well be the tagline for Aeldari in 10.5. Supplemented with other annoying units (Shroud Runners, Warp Spiders, Hawks), and then some big target elimination stuff, your opponent can either stop your scoring by killing the chaff, or stop your killing by fighting your target elimination - and because our target elimination is so good, that's not a great trade for them usually.
Absolutely agree! Rangers are an amazing unit with many battlefield roles! Always try to include at least one unit in my list for the reasons you just stated!
I love how every time points get increased the answer is "it's not so bad we basically only lost a unit of Rangers per list" then in the next video the answer to all our problems are rangers again ;D
I am personally trying to resurrect the Night Spinner anti-meta anti-charge tech! Coupled with screening / ranger reactive / phantasm / Warlock on foot -2" charge: A lot of the time I make the charge 8+ inches and at least the enemy fails more charges then they make. End up out of position as they rely on the charge to reposition, spend more points on guns to kill failed charging units. Been semi successful but does require a lot of premeasuring and a few crossed fingers xD
@@ProxyHammer1 Call me crazy, but the stopping advance changing to -2/-2/-2" has been an improvement into certain factions. Into Orks or WE: the total distance being 6" further for a charge on the waagh turn really helped into Meganobz. Combined with a phantasm from the screening unit (or 2d6 back peddling rangers) means something between +7" to a whopping 20" added to the distance. (Average 9.5) I might change my mind after sheffield GT this weekend though!
Lost my first battle with my Aeldari crusade force the other day (out of 16 games) to a Chaos Daemons list. My list was VERY bad for narrative reasons, but even if I brought the better/more meta units in my roster idk how i wouldve dealt woth the constant deep striking and deadly melee, hoping this video can teach me some things.
I don’t think Eldar winrate is in a badplace because balance. I think it’s because the players who love the eldar playstyle who been playing for years stopped playimg eldar at the start of 10th when we were horribly busted because it’s seriously zero fun to braindead murder everything with dev wounds in 20m. With eldar fixed, those players will come back and eldar winrate will rise Eldar always required finesse and experience prior to 10th without those experienced players playing eldar, ofc the winrate is depressed
Normally for the Windrider what is the synergy between them and other unit for full potential? Farseer skyrunner leading them with shroud runner? Pls advice me on that and lastly do you have struggling with blob of windrider position because it’s somehow very hard to hide
I run them with a warlock Skyrunner and farseer skyrunner. This allows them to hit extremely hard, it is a harder unit to hide which is why you need to screen their vulnerable side (where opponents can gain LOS) or Fire and fade them to a position where they can Overwatch something but cannot be seen by other units
How do our dedicated melee units handle vs other factions dedicated melee? Ex banshees, harlequins, or scorpions vs thunderwolves, death company, sister's repentia, eightbound, warp talons, etc?
@@ProxyHammer1 Interesting. So it's really just a 50/50 whether they're worth bringing vs melee armies. How do our melee units handle into heavier threats comparatively? 8 bound, thunderwolves, death company, etc all seem pretty fine into anything really. Kinda dissapointing if it's just a who charges first situation with eldar.
@@LowcaCzarownic not always true, solitaire, banshees, and scorpions can all kill lighter units and 5-man squads and can finish off bigger units with help.
With all the focus on rangers in this what uses do you use them for when playing against other armies not using melee? How many do you usually run in your games and do you use Ilic nightspear with them?
I never run illic anymore tbh I use my rangers very aggressively to tie up units or vehicles in combat or just simply move block units to prevent them from being able to stage or get good LOS lanes!
@@ProxyHammer1 How many groups do you run? 3 squads of 5? Where would you consider scorpions instead? I don't really get to list tailor so I'd rather run a mix for different opponents.
I use scorpions, rangers are better for first turn and they get free reaction movement. I tend I get 2nd turn and the 3+save comes in clutch. I tend to fight kroot turn one and managed to delete a squad of them with just the Exarch alone.
@@TheBluBrawler How many do you use? I've been running 1-2 groups of scorpions so far. Sometimes 5 in a falcon with Karandras. They've been fairly good. They definately struggle into dedicated melee.
@@ProxyHammer1 How can I counter imperial knights as melee? We have 3 imperial knights and a chaos knights player. Feels pretty bad trying to run melee when 1 in 5 games is into knights. Are there any good ways or should I stick to combined arms?
@@jameskurth3560 Combined arms is probably the best but tbh quins with troupe masters out of falcons can kill the baby knights pretty convincingly with dev wounds and grenades.
Correction*** Flying models can move over enemy units during a charge. However, if they cannot reach the enemy unit they have declared as the target (because of an intervening unit) then the charge fails. So you can use Rangers to prevent flying units from charging certain targets if you place them close enough to their target.
Firstly, I really like your videos mostly, you're enthusiastic, visually interesting and usually have interesting takes, even if I'm not a huge fan of the click-bait titles, I guess you've gotta play the algorithm right?
I try to be positive but it sort of seems like every video I get about 15 minutes in before there's some mistake in the rules that significantly invalidates what you're saying.
EG in this case, for the rangers to be an effective screen against flying, they need to be within ~2" of the target unit. In that situation, most flying combat armies will quite happily multicharge. Otherwise, they need to make the target unit un-engageable, which a 5 man unit of rangers is probably going to struggle to do unless it's a pretty long charge or a pretty small target.
It's a really significant misunderstanding of the rules for fly.
Which in most cases it won't be. Mostly, the opponent will either have advance and charge, reroll charge, or be coming out of rapid ingress with a 12" move. It's extremely difficult to fully screen anything you'd want to screen with 5 rangers against that.
The way to manage combat armies is the same as it's always been for Eldar - trade well. Put your rangers in a spot where you opponent has to deal with them, far away from something else.
I'll comment elsewhere how I've been using rangers well against melee armies, but I'd really love it if you could double check your content, maybe slow it down a bit.
@@michaelcowan725 For sure dude will double check on that stuff in the future.
Fly actually does work in the Charge Phase as well. It's in the Charge Phase section
CHARGING WITH FLYING MODELS
When a model that can FLY starts or ends a Charge move on a terrain feature, instead of measuring the path it has moved across the battlefield, you instead measure its path ‘through the air’. In addition, it can be moved over other models as if they were not there. A model that can FLY cannot end any move on top of another model.
Ok sweet thank you I missed that completely!
Big help! My brothers and I are getting into warhammer, and they chose the orks and space wolves, while I chose the superior faction 💪. Thunderwolves, quadruple melee dreadnaughts, and meganobz. So many thanks!
My pleasure man! Melee armies can be almost impossible to deal with without the correct tactics!
So stoked to watch this, got a very competitive 1 v 1 coming up and am playing my first full good balanced aeldari list. All I was missing was how to slow down those death guard!
Rangers will certainly help!!
I needed this video last week before I got tabled by Custodes 😭
I’m sorry I’m a bit late!!!
I agree with everything you said in the video, even with what you said about the fifth edition (I was there Gandalf 😂).
haha lol !!
Just got back from my first game with my Aeldari, and it was vs Orks; Scorpions and Banshees made easy work of them! Dope videos by the way, keep it up 👍
Dude that is awesome!! Great units imho
Hey really like the new addition of diagrams und the strategy discussion. Mind making a vid about good Farseer use and placement, especially with the foot Farseer I struggle with good battlefield placement. Mostly use furtune only on himself or he dies when he is placed more aggresively to support a unit.
I’d be happy to help! I usually have mine in the back behind a ruin and he advances up to the next piece of terrain on turn 1. He rarely lives unless your opponent has better targets
Usually though I can keep him alive until turn 4
Hey proxy, been loving your content!
One request though, if you could make your cursor or temp marker tool visible when you do the diagram explanations I would find it much easier to follow - anyhow keep up the great work :}
For sure! Do you want me to label the units? Would that help them be more clear?
@@ProxyHammer1 Yea that definitely would help!
Although especially when describing interactions with terrain, movement lanes and firing angles I reckon any visual indication would be a great help
@@barwachtel5714 Ill find a way to do this for sure!
Something I realized too late during my only game against BA, is that killing the character they use to double the damage output of their assault units (captain or sanguinary priest) is a good method to counter them. Death Jester or Rangers possibly with Illic are good for this
That is a really good point and yes the DJ is very awesome for that!
Auspex tactics just released a video on best melee armies in 40K right now. Excellent timing Mr Hammer!
Thank you 😊😉
I defeated a 120 Jakal army with Angron and 2 daemon princes at an RTT this weekend by creating a kill box. I funneled them into a choke point and just laid 8 shuriken cannons, & 12 splinter rifles into them and 10 dark lances into Angron and the princes. 10/10 would never play that guy again 😂
Well done dude!! Absolutely amazing screening and redirection!
@@ProxyHammer1 thanks man. I gave the fire dragons a try and they got me 2 wounded land raiders.
@@devotedtodestruction Fire Dragons are a great unit! Love ‘em!
@@ProxyHammer1 I’ve held off for months on Fire Dragons due to their models but gave in yesterday and got a box. Gonna proxy Fuegan with the Exarch and give them a run out next week. Never struggled vs armour but I reckon they’ll be insane vs my Grey Knight opponent
@@FarseerB1rdy They will feast against grey knights! It's one of my fav matchups for fire dragons!
TLDR: Use Rangers to pull opponents away from where they want to be - either because they're in the way, or because they score you too many points.
Been getting decent success early edition with Fixed secondaries, playing a combo of engage, BEL, and assassinate/bring it down depending on the match up. I like fixed this pack because the actions are brutal for high cost armies. My argument is that the best use of rangers is to screen turn 1 moves and charges, especially pushing your opponent in a direction they don't want to go, and then to score fixed secondaries unless your opponent kills them, which is easier said than done. Obviously this works better in different deployments and against different armies (horde armies or armies with lots of infiltrators are more annoying here, but in those situations the secondaries change up too, very happy culling hordes at 5 points a throw).
Firstly, rangers power as a very cheap way to totally invalidate enemy scouts is beautiful, especially if they don't have infiltrators as it means I can drop my rangers last and massively deny that movement.
Rangers themselves can be very annoying to deal with for melee armies if you play them for fixed objectives. I will typically use path of the outcast and potentially phantasm to try to pull a melee unit away from other stuff, or to put it in a place where I want it for my turn.
If the opponent tries to shoot them, generally, to kill them they will need to put something worthwhile in. Looking at marine options, they don't die to incidental fire (scouts, pistols from 5 man squads, impulsor shooting, I mean if you're lucky they can reasonably live through a lancer). Similar across the board - stealth is a very powerful rule and if they have cover they can be extremely difficult to shift outside of huge volume of fire and as far as I can tell there are basically no units that are less than double their points cost that can kill them with shooting, that wouldn't be fairly easy to deploy away from or LOS.
If they don't go after them, my rangers will score me VP, and likely be positioned to attempt to crack some wounds off a character. Worth noting that going second, rangers can very reliably move 20" for 3 CP, which puts you absolutely plum for 7 points if you have engage and BEL with a 55 point sacrificial lamb - much more appealing than warp spiders for the role. I mean they for sure die in this situation, but it's tasty.
And if I go first, my rangers are getting where they want and scoring me 4+ secondary, then the enemy has to kill them or I do it again next turn, probably bumping it up to 7 or even 8, and as I mentioned, the combination of absurd movement shenanigans, stealth, 5++ means that they do usually take some concerted effort to kill, especially for combat armies without much shooting. Just keep them away from flamers, which I feel could well be the tagline for Aeldari in 10.5.
Supplemented with other annoying units (Shroud Runners, Warp Spiders, Hawks), and then some big target elimination stuff, your opponent can either stop your scoring by killing the chaff, or stop your killing by fighting your target elimination - and because our target elimination is so good, that's not a great trade for them usually.
Absolutely agree! Rangers are an amazing unit with many battlefield roles! Always try to include at least one unit in my list for the reasons you just stated!
I love how every time points get increased the answer is "it's not so bad we basically only lost a unit of Rangers per list" then in the next video the answer to all our problems are rangers again ;D
@@maverick1191 LoL
Ikr?! GW needs to hit several units with point decreases as well imho
@@ProxyHammer1 we'll probably see some points decrease next balance.
@@lord_619 Yep most likely
I am personally trying to resurrect the Night Spinner anti-meta anti-charge tech!
Coupled with screening / ranger reactive / phantasm / Warlock on foot -2" charge:
A lot of the time I make the charge 8+ inches and at least the enemy fails more charges then they make. End up out of position as they rely on the charge to reposition, spend more points on guns to kill failed charging units.
Been semi successful but does require a lot of premeasuring and a few crossed fingers xD
Nice dude! Honestly it might work! I think Nightspinner needs to be 180 again with the nerfs it got
@@ProxyHammer1 Call me crazy, but the stopping advance changing to -2/-2/-2" has been an improvement into certain factions. Into Orks or WE: the total distance being 6" further for a charge on the waagh turn really helped into Meganobz. Combined with a phantasm from the screening unit (or 2d6 back peddling rangers) means something between +7" to a whopping 20" added to the distance. (Average 9.5)
I might change my mind after sheffield GT this weekend though!
@@ProxyHammer1 AND it only hit on 4s anyway, so dodged the indirect nerfs :D
@@lukequadling399 very true!
@@lukequadling399 it’s good but you are also paying 210pts for it 🫤 at that point screening units can do the same job better
I spent way to long trying to find the pun/joke in the thumbnail before I realised there wasn't one this time lol
I know man I thought hard about it but nothing came to mind 🫤
Lost my first battle with my Aeldari crusade force the other day (out of 16 games) to a Chaos Daemons list. My list was VERY bad for narrative reasons, but even if I brought the better/more meta units in my roster idk how i wouldve dealt woth the constant deep striking and deadly melee, hoping this video can teach me some things.
Fights first units do very well against the lighter units of bloodletters and daemonettes, heroic intervention and screening is your best friend!
Wouldn't dire avengers be better than windriders as an overwatch threat? Or is there additional reasons why you choose windriders in that list?
Windriders rerolling hits do way more damage to MEQ than avengers in Overwatch. That’s usually why I like them better than Avengers
My harlequins just keep stompin with the troupe master and the death jester. Tabled a necron and an ork army and beat a 3rd necron army.
I'm not surprised they are honestly one of th big inspos for this video!
Eldar shall rule the NEXUS!
They shall!!
Comments for Isha. 🙂
🙏Praise her!!
I don’t think Eldar winrate is in a badplace because balance. I think it’s because the players who love the eldar playstyle who been playing for years stopped playimg eldar at the start of 10th when we were horribly busted because it’s seriously zero fun to braindead murder everything with dev wounds in 20m.
With eldar fixed, those players will come back and eldar winrate will rise
Eldar always required finesse and experience prior to 10th without those experienced players playing eldar, ofc the winrate is depressed
Totally agree! I think Eldar winrates do reflect what you just addressed!
Normally for the Windrider what is the synergy between them and other unit for full potential? Farseer skyrunner leading them with shroud runner? Pls advice me on that and lastly do you have struggling with blob of windrider position because it’s somehow very hard to hide
I run them with a warlock Skyrunner and farseer skyrunner. This allows them to hit extremely hard, it is a harder unit to hide which is why you need to screen their vulnerable side (where opponents can gain LOS) or Fire and fade them to a position where they can Overwatch something but cannot be seen by other units
How do our dedicated melee units handle vs other factions dedicated melee? Ex banshees, harlequins, or scorpions vs thunderwolves, death company, sister's repentia, eightbound, warp talons, etc?
If we get the first strike they trade up considerably for the points. Of course though if we get hit first we crumble
@@ProxyHammer1 Interesting. So it's really just a 50/50 whether they're worth bringing vs melee armies. How do our melee units handle into heavier threats comparatively? 8 bound, thunderwolves, death company, etc all seem pretty fine into anything really. Kinda dissapointing if it's just a who charges first situation with eldar.
They die and do not kill properly. Even if they can sometimes trade at the end they perish and oponents still stand.
@@jameskurth3560 Thats why i prefer fights first units, they fight first even when charged
@@LowcaCzarownic not always true, solitaire, banshees, and scorpions can all kill lighter units and 5-man squads and can finish off bigger units with help.
With all the focus on rangers in this what uses do you use them for when playing against other armies not using melee? How many do you usually run in your games and do you use Ilic nightspear with them?
I never run illic anymore tbh I use my rangers very aggressively to tie up units or vehicles in combat or just simply move block units to prevent them from being able to stage or get good LOS lanes!
@@ProxyHammer1 How many groups do you run? 3 squads of 5? Where would you consider scorpions instead? I don't really get to list tailor so I'd rather run a mix for different opponents.
I use scorpions, rangers are better for first turn and they get free reaction movement. I tend I get 2nd turn and the 3+save comes in clutch. I tend to fight kroot turn one and managed to delete a squad of them with just the Exarch alone.
@@TheBluBrawler Nice dude that is awesome!
@@TheBluBrawler How many do you use? I've been running 1-2 groups of scorpions so far. Sometimes 5 in a falcon with Karandras. They've been fairly good. They definately struggle into dedicated melee.
Cool, but how to dominate as eldar melee army?)
It’s possible! Quins and Banshees working together!
@@ProxyHammer1 How can I counter imperial knights as melee? We have 3 imperial knights and a chaos knights player. Feels pretty bad trying to run melee when 1 in 5 games is into knights. Are there any good ways or should I stick to combined arms?
@@jameskurth3560 Combined arms is probably the best but tbh quins with troupe masters out of falcons can kill the baby knights pretty convincingly with dev wounds and grenades.
@@ProxyHammer1 I wish. They're a nice list check of 4-5 big knights with 1-2 small ones. The chaos one added some daemons too.
Tip#1 Play a real melee army not paper elves
@@rikhansen4574 Rather play paper elves than vampire gay bois or space furries any day 😂
@@ProxyHammer1 jokes on you I play World Eaters!!!! Gay space elf
@@rikhansen4574 oh right angry daemon orgy bois, almost forgot them because they are gayer than Bruno
@@ProxyHammer1 lmao.... that was a good one....
One word. Ynnari.
Indeed! Lelith is a beast!
As is Yvraine
That's a really sad idea. The best option to playing Eldars are choosing Dark Eldar
@@LowcaCzarownic Eldar are still great just need to rethink list building
@@LowcaCzarownic I play both, so it works a treat!