On mod screws most people use blue loctite. I used to until I had to remove my cams, wrap them in a soaked wet rag, and use a little butane torch on the screw to break free. Blue loctite is service grade but it’s designed for fasteners that use a bigger tool to break free. For small fasteners like draw mod screws that use small Allen wrenches and torx bits to remove, you should use PURPLE loctite. It is designed for small fasteners and it will keep things tight. And as always use sparingly don’t soak entire screw in it lol
My Xpedition Smoke shot 340 @29/70. Backyard bows shot a 500gr arrow @30/70, he said it actually measured closer to 29.5 & he short a 500gr arrow over 300fps. The draw cycle is bitter smooth
I’m from southeastern Ohio and enjoy your videos and recently purchased a new Consequence 2 from an archery shop in my area. Proformance Archery. Highly recommend if you’re in my area!
No mention of the SD! Do we not exist??? Please give some love to the short draw archers out there. Video idea... SHORT DRAW SHOWDOWN!!! Performance/forgiveness for the mini badasses out there. Lets make it happen! Please!!!
Should really do your sound outside on grass on a calm day, or in a sound dead room, but outside, open field on grass is probably the easiest. Walls windows, ceilings can give a diferent outcome. Would be a interesting video to shotgun through a few bows on a calm day to see if it changes.
@@bearinthewoods3speed is like money. Having it doesn’t matter. Not having it does. Unless you have an absurd amount of it. In which case it defines you.
It's rated exactly the same as the rx8. It might effectively be a little faster because of the different mod/cams, but is it worth sacrificing a smooth draw?
@@WolfinWolvesClothing713 I went back and looked at his RX8 review from last year and came here to make this exact comment. FPS #s are virtually identical!
Great review. I watched Jay Lane had some screws break or something like that. Archery Vet did some torture testing on the RX8 ultra ya don't reckon Hoyt gotta hold of videos?
With the new SD models, it would be interesting to see the RX-9 at 27" and 70# VS the RX-9 SD at 27" and 70#. see if the numbers show "Optimal performance" at the lower draw lengths.
Mfjj I love this in depth testing! Thank you for making bow manufactures more honest, do you only measure ATA on the open riser side? Not the sight side of the riser? And when you measure your full draw angle, is that from top to bottom of cams or ATA? I feel like cams would be the more accurate method. And I’m very excited to see the decibel ratings across the board!
Personally I don’t care about the whole can’t tune it with a screwdriver thing 🤷🏻♂️ I trust shims and top hats to stay put and never shift. I don’t know that I like all the user friendly tuning options on the other bows other than the pse system. I have no evidence to back up the theories tho lol I just know that anything on a bow that has screws tends to at some point loosen and usually when you REALLY don’t want it to.
I totally agree. Iv been using the spacer system for a few years now. They hold tune very well and it seems very forgiving with differing arrow spines.
I can't imagine how many warranty claims Hoyt avoids by making their customers take their bows back to a professional. I bet there are also less trips to the ER as well!!😂
I'm very confused if the speed is literally off my like 2-3fps, why would you deduct so many points?? Considering it being so close to the rated speed, why not just called it 14/15?
Can you measure the full draw stability measurement which is brace height at full draw. Lancaster Archery said that's the most important measurement to shoot long range. That's why the PSE mach 30 and 33 shoot so good. Brace height gets way bigger at full draw
@@jakedublya15it’s the pivot point where the string leaves the cam. That father back the better it aims is the theory. Kinda makes sense but I think there are a lot of factors that contribute and reflex is probably higher on the list
The apa bows have a much “longer brace at full draw” and they shoot and aim terribly. Very finicky and torquey. I’d attribute it to an extreme amount of reflex.
@@Saddle-Ninja okay, I understand what you're referring to now. I like to do my own bow work and have starting a little side business so the more I know and understand the better. Thank you for explaining.
@@WolfinWolvesClothing713 I think some guys were having problems with mod screws coming loose and the bow locking at full draw. Blue usually doesn't require heat unless it is over done on a tiny torques head screw, but curious if they switched to red loctite.
@@dirtjunkie2749 Not coming out if it's red, the other issue is if the screws are countersunk & if the mod is countersunk a couple degrees different it locks the screw in & no amount of pleading, cursing or sacrificed virgins will move it---unless the mod is heated before the allen keyway is stripped out, Harley used this countersunk idea to lock some early model rear discs to the hubs, nightmare.
@@Guipago55 oh yes, Harley and imports do it with rotors, pulleys and sprockets, same with clutch hubs and starter gears. Heat makes life easier along with impacts. Using heat on mod screws close to strings and limbs might require a little more finesse.
I saw a review on a bow called APA was hoping to get you to do a review on it, it had a handle for caring it, knife sharpener, can opener just kidding about that. Thanks
Would it be relevant to measure the dynamic brace height like PSE talks about with their full draw stability? I feel this would be more important than the reflex measurement…
@@benjamins7799 I think it would be an easy add on seeing as he’s already doing the string angle thing. But reflex is pretty important too. Part of the puzzle of a forgiving bow..
Come on folks, it’s the function that matters, not how it looks. I, for one, really appreciate their innovative combination of Aluminum and Carbon fused together with their proprietary Butt-uglyum (tm) bonding agent.
Anyone see that rating on the board of 75? I can't make it out I think it's says the model name then I think 34(inches assuming) then 75? Mathews? That's the high score on the board isn't it?
Checkout the “ whitetail fit” channel today. The guy of that channel, Joel Burham, took an awesome buck at 86.5 yards with a prototype bow of this. This was a month ago but he couldn’t show the video until this bow drooped onto the market. Fantastic shot on some amazing video.
Paid $2100 now almost up to 4 k with accessories...dang...hurt my wallet,,I just ordered rx9 32 29 inch verde I'm waiting for it to show up at Humphries archery in Payson utah. 4 to 6 week wait ... I heard Matthew's are out almost 20 weeks??
The bows are going backwards speed wise... im shooting a 70 # omen and non of the current hoyt bows even come close to what it puts out i was hoping hoyt was going to put out out a improved z1s 350 fps + ibo bow...that and the bows have skyrocket in price i can run a cross bow that's 450+ fps for the same 2500$+ price tag if no new 350+ bows come out soon ill just run a ton point 505 nitro or 515 for the same price as these hoyts.
Stripped mod screws on an $1800 bow. 2 different bows. No bueno. That’s why I shoot Mathews. No knock on Josh. I only buy from Podium. Best info and best advice. Why so indifferent to this problem. ?
Hoyt finally makes a bow with some speed again and you can't adjust the draw length 😒. These companies have to get it together and realize if they're going to try and sell these bows for this kind of money, people don't want mistakes. Why would the mod screw issue be something the end user finds and not a factory R&D team?
I've busted mfjj b@lls over his mathews love both online and in person for a while now. To be fair he is giving this hoyt it's dues👊 love the videos, hope there's room on your other butt cheek for the hoyt tattoo.😂 This bow is doooope.
Damn man, no adjustability, harsh draw, and high price. Should have gotten a low score. Remember when we used to dock points for a bow with a harsh draw? So it's okay as long as it's fast? It is a comfy bow and they always look nice. The customers will have to buy parts and pay for cam adjustments when tuning. Idk man
31 years in the archery biz. By far the WORST warranty experience with Hoyt. NO Urgency... complete lack of caring about our customer... that paid top dollar - $1900 carbon bow. Was like dealing with some of the cheap Xbow Mfgs. Ridiculous. ruclips.net/video/gri0CId2VhE/видео.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you can afford a new hoyt, or mathews, you should be able to afford a press. Then when you act like you know what you're talking about, you actually might.
Exactly but a press from podium. I did and I can work on anything now. Personally I like not having all those tuning features. It’s more crap to keep from coming loose. Or buy a recurve and tune by switching arrows
You complain about the cam ajustability system, maybe that's because they're good straight from the factory. Don't need all the extra ajustability like the others, mathews,bowtech,etc.
Still slower than bows APA have been producing for over 10yrs. lol It's funny how so many You Tubers are such brand fan boys and completely ignore bows that beat all the big names in literally every category.
Support local shop? Lmao in New York and New Jersey every shop I walked into they do not let you test any of the bows. It’s sickening and that’s the exact reason why I will never buy from them anything.
@ well I’ve been shooting archery for 43 years and I guess I do. And 1/8 of an inch in BH is minuscule. But Coupled with that much reflex will be a less forging bow. That’s not opinion that’s truth. And seeing that this is a factor in any and all of Josh’s reviews, Who has thousands of followers it obviously matters to some or it wouldn’t be mentioned.
Hoyt review while wearing a Mathews shirt, MFJJ marches to the beat of his own drum and we are all here for it.
Omg what’s wrong with you
He did the opposite last year I believe with Mathews lol, almost think he does it on purpose
It’s almost like he just puts on whatever is in his closet and none of this is planned….. cuz it’s not.
I loved getting bow returns in competitors boxes. Just knowing someone at a shop to the extra time to do that made me smile.
He always wears the opposite brand shirt when reviewing Matthew’s and Hoyt bows
I love how he tells you to support local before ever considering online, kudos
On mod screws most people use blue loctite. I used to until I had to remove my cams, wrap them in a soaked wet rag, and use a little butane torch on the screw to break free. Blue loctite is service grade but it’s designed for fasteners that use a bigger tool to break free. For small fasteners like draw mod screws that use small Allen wrenches and torx bits to remove, you should use PURPLE loctite. It is designed for small fasteners and it will keep things tight. And as always use sparingly don’t soak entire screw in it lol
Just use a soldering iron to heat up the screw.
@ didn’t have one hot enough. I’ve heard of that method before.
Just picked one up at my local shop. Thanks for the review! These are awesome!
I really like low features it keeps the bow simple and less parts to screw up in the backcountry 👍🏻
My Xpedition Smoke shot 340 @29/70. Backyard bows shot a 500gr arrow @30/70, he said it actually measured closer to 29.5 & he short a 500gr arrow over 300fps. The draw cycle is bitter smooth
Thank you very much ❤️ 😊 traded to rx9 carbon large... still keeping my hoyt hyper dialed in, never owned a carbon bebefore 😊
Great review MFJJ we the people agree Hoyt makes a really good bow, but $2000.00 dollars is insane
Don't buy carbon?
@@bmook019I was gonna say carbons always been 2k
@@Pr1mitiveHunter carbon bows have always 2k
@@davemartin660no they haven’t lol the RX1 and RX3 were around $1400-1600
It is insane, I bought a used RX-3 and I want to say it isn't worth it but I REALLY like my carbon bow. Probably for the wrong reasons.
Do you have to ship the bow back to Hoyt if you can’t get the module off? Seems like a big issue
I’m from southeastern Ohio and enjoy your videos and recently purchased a new Consequence 2 from an archery shop in my area. Proformance Archery. Highly recommend if you’re in my area!
Finally a new intro😁
No mention of the SD! Do we not exist??? Please give some love to the short draw archers out there. Video idea... SHORT DRAW SHOWDOWN!!! Performance/forgiveness for the mini badasses out there. Lets make it happen! Please!!!
Better stability, better balance, better ingredients, better pizza…. papa johns
Should really do your sound outside on grass on a calm day, or in a sound dead room, but outside, open field on grass is probably the easiest. Walls windows, ceilings can give a diferent outcome. Would be a interesting video to shotgun through a few bows on a calm day to see if it changes.
Glad to see speed making a comeback!
Speed doesn't matter
@ it does to me.
@@bearinthewoods3speed is like money. Having it doesn’t matter. Not having it does. Unless you have an absurd amount of it. In which case it defines you.
It's rated exactly the same as the rx8. It might effectively be a little faster because of the different mod/cams, but is it worth sacrificing a smooth draw?
@@WolfinWolvesClothing713 I went back and looked at his RX8 review from last year and came here to make this exact comment. FPS #s are virtually identical!
When are the 2025 bowtechs gonna drop?
If you have a 27¼" draw is the sd cam better?
Love the new format of the video!
Also a hoyt bow review in a mthews tshirt😂 MFJJ dont take nothin from nobody!
Great review. I watched Jay Lane had some screws break or something like that. Archery Vet did some torture testing on the RX8 ultra ya don't reckon Hoyt gotta hold of videos?
With the new SD models, it would be interesting to see the RX-9 at 27" and 70# VS the RX-9 SD at 27" and 70#. see if the numbers show "Optimal performance" at the lower draw lengths.
Dang, ahead of the curve with the review and all !!!!!!
And I STILL haven't found a reason to switch from my old bow that is 7.25" brace height and is 340 IBO...
Mfjj I love this in depth testing! Thank you for making bow manufactures more honest, do you only measure ATA on the open riser side? Not the sight side of the riser? And when you measure your full draw angle, is that from top to bottom of cams or ATA? I feel like cams would be the more accurate method. And I’m very excited to see the decibel ratings across the board!
I wonder how a Lift would score on the new criteria?
The new lift scored 78 if I remember correctly
@ yes. I’m just wondering how the original would score compared to the new one based on the new criteria.
My local shop also couldn’t get a screw out of the mod.
Personally I don’t care about the whole can’t tune it with a screwdriver thing 🤷🏻♂️ I trust shims and top hats to stay put and never shift. I don’t know that I like all the user friendly tuning options on the other bows other than the pse system. I have no evidence to back up the theories tho lol I just know that anything on a bow that has screws tends to at some point loosen and usually when you REALLY don’t want it to.
I totally agree. Iv been using the spacer system for a few years now. They hold tune very well and it seems very forgiving with differing arrow spines.
Same here. I don’t want extra parts that can fail. How do those fancy tuning methods hold up to a dry fire that all Hoyt’s have to go through?
I can't imagine how many warranty claims Hoyt avoids by making their customers take their bows back to a professional. I bet there are also less trips to the ER as well!!😂
Cant wait to see the new mathews, I heard the 19th so hopefully tomorrow?
I'm very confused if the speed is literally off my like 2-3fps, why would you deduct so many points?? Considering it being so close to the rated speed, why not just called it 14/15?
Exactly
Because it’s not a Mathews. I’m not a Hoyt or a Mathews guy but he always is easier on them
would it be possible to get this out to be a 33" draw with the LD??
Can you measure the full draw stability measurement which is brace height at full draw. Lancaster Archery said that's the most important measurement to shoot long range. That's why the PSE mach 30 and 33 shoot so good. Brace height gets way bigger at full draw
This is a great idea/test to include. We care about this.
I don't watch very many videos from Lancaster so I'm not certain, but it's brace height at full draw just your draw length?
@@jakedublya15it’s the pivot point where the string leaves the cam. That father back the better it aims is the theory. Kinda makes sense but I think there are a lot of factors that contribute and reflex is probably higher on the list
The apa bows have a much “longer brace at full draw” and they shoot and aim terribly. Very finicky and torquey. I’d attribute it to an extreme amount of reflex.
@@Saddle-Ninja okay, I understand what you're referring to now. I like to do my own bow work and have starting a little side business so the more I know and understand the better. Thank you for explaining.
What features does the aluminum have that the carbon doesn’t?
For 2k all those specs should be spot on!! The module thing also...No way will I drop 2k for it.
You can change specs with a simple twist of a cable or string.
Possibly put loctite on the mod screws, might need a little heat before removing. Curious if that is the issue
Aw yes heat gun first!
Just use blue. Then no heat.
@@WolfinWolvesClothing713 I think some guys were having problems with mod screws coming loose and the bow locking at full draw. Blue usually doesn't require heat unless it is over done on a tiny torques head screw, but curious if they switched to red loctite.
@@dirtjunkie2749 Not coming out if it's red, the other issue is if the screws are countersunk & if the mod is countersunk a couple degrees different it locks the screw in & no amount of pleading, cursing or sacrificed virgins will move it---unless the mod is heated before the allen keyway is stripped out, Harley used this countersunk idea to lock some early model rear discs to the hubs, nightmare.
@@Guipago55 oh yes, Harley and imports do it with rotors, pulleys and sprockets, same with clutch hubs and starter gears. Heat makes life easier along with impacts. Using heat on mod screws close to strings and limbs might require a little more finesse.
I would like to see a speed test with the different let off percentages.
I saw a review on a bow called APA was hoping to get you to do a review on it, it had a handle for caring it, knife sharpener, can opener just kidding about that. Thanks
He did it in that bow long ago
I remember I bought myself an RX3 back in 2019 for my birthday… i paid $1699.99 back then… I just can’t justify it anymore.
Could you do a review on the obsession bone?
Tat Carbon RX 9 be looking hot!
But wasn't the Bear Alaskan XT coming in at 330 fps (rated at 335 fps), but for only $570 bare bow??
You should mention that all these new Hoyt are also available with a short draw cam 27”-23”…. Kind of a big deal for some!
MFJJ can you explained your draw length setup please?
5:11 whats that sound.
Think it was the arrow shaft rattling around on the rest cuz its such a harsh draw and cam system lol like my RX-1 that is mehh to shoot
@@Orr_sding ding ding
Recurve in the background?! Maybe a recurve review is coming?!
Would it be relevant to measure the dynamic brace height like PSE talks about with their full draw stability? I feel this would be more important than the reflex measurement…
@@benjamins7799 I think it would be an easy add on seeing as he’s already doing the string angle thing.
But reflex is pretty important too. Part of the puzzle of a forgiving bow..
@ that’s what I was thinking. Maybe quick clamp the yardstick to the cams and measure off it.
Fast bow. But wasn't your Bear Persist review 334-336fps as well with 350gr arrow, 70# and 30in DL?
The quarter inch draw length may come from the 85% let off.
Are we EVER gonna see an Xpedition X-Lite in your tests?
Luv live reviews!
Come on folks, it’s the function that matters, not how it looks. I, for one, really appreciate their innovative combination of Aluminum and Carbon fused together with their proprietary Butt-uglyum (tm) bonding agent.
Still chasing 2015 Bowtechs
Anyone see that rating on the board of 75? I can't make it out I think it's says the model name then I think 34(inches assuming) then 75? Mathews? That's the high score on the board isn't it?
Does rhe aluminum come in diff size ATA’s?
Yeah, the new Hoyt aluminum bows are 29 ata and 32 ata
@ just saw the other review too after that comment thanks! Lol
When's mathews dropping their new bows?
Checkout the “ whitetail fit” channel today. The guy of that channel, Joel Burham, took an awesome buck at 86.5 yards with a prototype bow of this. This was a month ago but he couldn’t show the video until this bow drooped onto the market. Fantastic shot on some amazing video.
Paid $2100 now almost up to 4 k with accessories...dang...hurt my wallet,,I just ordered rx9 32 29 inch verde I'm waiting for it to show up at Humphries archery in Payson utah. 4 to 6 week wait ... I heard Matthew's are out almost 20 weeks??
Bang Bang 9er Gang where are you located.
MFJJ Stand your Ground on the Pricing …2,000 is a lot for a bow…
The bows are going backwards speed wise... im shooting a 70 # omen and non of the current hoyt bows even come close to what it puts out i was hoping hoyt was going to put out out a improved z1s 350 fps + ibo bow...that and the bows have skyrocket in price i can run a cross bow that's 450+ fps for the same 2500$+ price tag if no new 350+ bows come out soon ill just run a ton point 505 nitro or 515 for the same price as these hoyts.
Tell us your favorite bow brand without telling us your favorite bow brand. Nice shirt...haha!
Looks like PSE, Darton cam.
But my RX-3 Turbo has a claimed 350 FPS IBO…. So I’m a super freak? Cool, still not selling it.
Not being able to get the mod off is a red flag 😬
it looks just like my RX4 Turbo
Sweet bow, but I'll give up 10 fps and keep $1000 in my pocket (insane, I know) for any number of other top bows....that you can adjust.
Give up 10 fps with what bow?
Stripped mod screws on an $1800 bow. 2 different bows. No bueno. That’s why I shoot Mathews. No knock on Josh. I only buy from Podium. Best info and best advice. Why so indifferent to this problem. ?
Any screw on any mod on any bow can be overtightened. You Mathews guys are strange.
2k 341fps ish 70lbs wasn’t Mathew’s doing 336 fps like 2years ago ?
Yea and pse was doing 350 15 years ago.
13 for honesty and they were off on almost all their numbers ? Hmmmm
Hoyt finally makes a bow with some speed again and you can't adjust the draw length 😒. These companies have to get it together and realize if they're going to try and sell these bows for this kind of money, people don't want mistakes. Why would the mod screw issue be something the end user finds and not a factory R&D team?
Please support your local pro shop! Also make your bow so people can tune it themselves so you don’t have to go to pro shops!
If you're buying any new flagship bow, you should be able to afford a press.
Learn to tune your bows. A pro shop doesn’t care about your bow the way you do.
I had to laugh in Dudley’s video, he’s pushes how consumer friendly the Hoyt bows are lmao
Not consumer friendly for over $2,000
I'm a 28" draw length. If the bow is a short 28 I may be buying 2 cams?
I've busted mfjj b@lls over his mathews love both online and in person for a while now. To be fair he is giving this hoyt it's dues👊 love the videos, hope there's room on your other butt cheek for the hoyt tattoo.😂 This bow is doooope.
I still don't understand why this industry hasn't universally adopted titanium hardware for mods.
Seems to be a "sticking" point.
APA has it
You finally changed your music at the beginning of your videos..... You're old music was killing me
Same riser is so crazy like really you haven’t figured out anything better ?
They changed the riser slightly. It’s narrower at the limbs and weighs less
@ same riser I called them
@@woodson159someone lied to you then.
MFJJ WITH A MATHEWS SHIRT ON😂
342 is the same as my rx-7
I thought it was supposed to be faster… The speeds are almost exactly the same as your rx8 test…🧐
When I first saw the rx9 I wasn’t impressed and was praying that they would change the fussing riser but seeing it now I’m a fan
Better intro. Because it’s not 45 minutes long!
7:07 figures, hoyt engineers arent the best.....
Damn man, no adjustability, harsh draw, and high price. Should have gotten a low score. Remember when we used to dock points for a bow with a harsh draw? So it's okay as long as it's fast? It is a comfy bow and they always look nice. The customers will have to buy parts and pay for cam adjustments when tuning. Idk man
Yet again. 2019 model Bear smokes this thing in speed.
Different riser
Strips screw, gives a 5 for quality.
Apparently EVERYONE has gone yoke system……what’s old is new again…..
A huge problem with the industry is letting people play with bows and other hunting equipment, then selling it as new and unused.
31 years in the archery biz. By far the WORST warranty experience with Hoyt.
NO Urgency... complete lack of caring about our customer... that paid top dollar -
$1900 carbon bow. Was like dealing with some of the cheap Xbow Mfgs.
Ridiculous.
ruclips.net/video/gri0CId2VhE/видео.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I wish you could tune the bow yourself, bullshit, I don't even consider hoyt or mathews right now.
If you can afford a new hoyt, or mathews, you should be able to afford a press. Then when you act like you know what you're talking about, you actually might.
Exactly but a press from podium. I did and I can work on anything now. Personally I like not having all those tuning features. It’s more crap to keep from coming loose. Or buy a recurve and tune by switching arrows
With the lack of tuneability for that price is just insane. No thanks
These bows should be hitting 400fps already they been at this speed for 20 years!😂 waste of my damn time freaky fast 😂
You complain about the cam ajustability system, maybe that's because they're good straight from the factory. Don't need all the extra ajustability like the others, mathews,bowtech,etc.
Is that you Dudley?
@waynestevenson9613 No just been bowhunting since 1979 , I'm no expert by any means just Sean alot
Still slower than bows APA have been producing for over 10yrs. lol It's funny how so many You Tubers are such brand fan boys and completely ignore bows that beat all the big names in literally every category.
Reviewed Apa last year buddy, didn’t ignore anyone who will send me a bow to test.
Cringe when you walked in front of the bow at full draw and an arrow on the string
66 was to high of a score. Nice bow.. but probably closer to 60 but you don't want to make the hoyt reps mad so.. 66 it is I guess
My used 600$ SR6 deer slayer is faster and same weight if you buy a 2k$ bow you're crazy
Prob first time in many years I’m not interested in this Hoyt bow
Support local shop?
Lmao in New York and New Jersey every shop I walked into they do not let you test any of the bows. It’s sickening and that’s the exact reason why I will never buy from them anything.
6 inch brace height with 2 1/2 inch reflex….nope.
6 and 1/8 and who gives af about reflex? That’s new bs nobody cared about before
@ well I’ve been shooting archery for 43 years and I guess I do. And 1/8 of an inch in BH is minuscule. But Coupled with that much reflex will be a less forging bow. That’s not opinion that’s truth. And seeing that this is a factor in any and all of Josh’s reviews,
Who has thousands of followers it obviously matters to some or it wouldn’t be mentioned.
@@jonah-n8lreflex / deflex has been a thing for 20 years.