This, people think that they're such smarty pants suggesting stuff and comparing things w/ other vtubers down the block. Why can't you play/sing this and that when the vtuber there can? EN gets no support, it's always in jp. You guys should just build your own 3d studio etc. etc. Management didn't get perms for this game again they're bullying you guys! Hololvie already experienced a massive company wide content wipe because of copyright issues they're not going to step on that landmine again. That's why they're going through so many hoops to prevent time, effort, money and emotion to suddenly go down the drain because some IP owners suddenly had an itch to be a d*ck.
And when 1 member sometimes complaint about something, the fans are too quick to attack the company without thinking if if could effect the company and that would effect the rest of the members
@@izzadk86 when a company factually does something bad to one of their employees, especially if it incurs notable financial loss for the said employee and an impact on their mental health, the issue simply has to be brought up publicly in detail. No matter how many other employees will be "inconvenienced" by this (it's not fatal, after all). Else nothing will ever change, and those other employees will eventually have to deal with same problems happening to them and the circle will continue. JP companies are some of the worst in this regard, especially with international employees. Shareholders pull the strings, after all. Just ask kurocolor. Publicity of corporate issues is the only thing that can actually affect shareholders' decisions for the benefit of employees.
When ERB released her Blackbird cover, Yagoo himself tweeted about it and even posted about it on his LinkedIn. That's not something he does for just any cover. So even for the company, it's a big deal that they were able to find a new avenue for their talents to cover English songs.
If EN copyright costs as much as a live, and ERB did not one EN cover but three, it's really a wonder how ERB and the team helping her managed to get perms. I doubt they would have just paid the fully amount (though they could have).
@@digster2344 back again on what ina says, it's depend on what they're using it for. I imagine using it for a cover song and singing it on concert is different
@@digster2344 I think another comment under this video explains it: a "mechanical license" for covering songs for release on streaming platforms vs. a "sync license" required for covering songs with an MV or on a concert livestream. The former is easier to get than the latter and has a fixed cost.
@@DatAtDawn it's also possible that she has network, maybe friends or family, to get the access for that, considering her real life background (idk much about forbidden knowledge but I think I saw leak about her past and I concluded that it's not weird for her to have the network related to that field by now)
For anyone, when it comes to music it doesn't matter if you are indie or corpo it's 10x easier to get JP perms for music, but 10x worse to get game perms from JP.
En copyright is worse, i still remember once pewdiepie play with kind of instrument and said this is "my heart will go on" then play random note and still got copyrighted.. 🤦♂️
It's easier to get perm from JP music as they usually under one copyright agency (JASRAC, iirc). Meanwhile for English song, the copyright are belong to different artist and recording company.
Thank you for the clip. It has been mentioned many times but this is the first time the issues are all got answered in single clip. I hope this clip stayed up as long as possible so I can keep link new fans to this clip. We got surge of new fans since Advent and Justice debuts and they started to bring back these issues again.
And we will continue to get new fans when the next gen drops asking the same questions, and the next gen after that, and the next gen after that, and the next gen after that, and the next gen after that, you get my point
Just decided to see more info about licensing and couple of minutes of search gave me this: The amount an artist can make from licensing their song for commercials or TV varies widely based on several factors, including the artist's popularity, the type of project, and the usage of the song. Here are some general guidelines: Independent Artists: They might earn anywhere from $1,000 to $10,000 for a single license, depending on the project's budget and exposure. Mid-Tier Artists: Established artists with some recognition can earn between $10,000 and $50,000. Top-Tier Artists: Well-known artists or major hits can fetch anywhere from $50,000 to several hundred thousand dollars for a commercial or TV show. Additional Considerations: - Duration and Scope: Longer usage or global rights can increase the fee. - Type of Media: Licensing for a national TV campaign typically pays more than for local ads. - Negotiation: Fees can often be negotiated based on the artist's leverage and the specific deal. So even if i knew it was hell to get licenses for EN songs and cost can be high, some people asking that really need to 1st look into this stuff
Kiara has mentioned English song issues before too. I'm so glad she found an artist that writes English songs she can cover and sing (reasonably i assume), KIRA. And the asteroid music team that writes/produces for her.
I seen discussions about US studios and song perms among Holofans a lot. It is great that an official Holomem like Ina explains this stuff so fans can know better.
Western fans simply cannot believe Americas isn't automatically the best thing for everything (by sheer difference in labor cost alone it simply illogical to keep Americas 3D Studio compared to just giving the very few talents ticket prices for a Japanese company)
@@adhiwicaksono6149 Even if we ignored the cost aspect, it would still make no sense from a logistics point of view. With the Tokyo studio, the majority (all?) of the JP talents can commute to it on a daily basis. The US, by contrast, is huge and the EN talents are scattered across the world. Even in the very best case scenario, at most 2-3 talents would be able to commute to it, but there's a good chance it'd actually be 0, if none of them live in California, where the studio would likely need to be located (the US office is there, after all, and it'd make the most sense from staffing point of view). In the end, the vast majority of talents would still be away from home and require accommodation / streaming setup when they have studio work, while also having none of the benefits of a Japan visit (meeting JP / ID talents and managers, off-collabs, visiting JP Holo stores, picking up their fanmail, having fun in another country in their off-time, etc.)
Also for en songs the perms are randomly bizarre expensive as irys once talked about it. Even if you use it one time only it is still expensive. She talked about perms sometimes the reaction from some company takes ages to react to and even if they do react they make the perms extremly expensive
That's due to western label companies wanting loads of money no matter where you're from. Eastern publishers are much more willing to give rights to eastern companies, from the same country.
One more thing about building studios outside of Japan is that Cover had to go public to fund their studio (in addition to what Yagoo said, that they NEEDED to pay the investors that backed them early on) and then even with the studio Cover is still having trouble even recruiting enough staff for them to fully utilize the existing capacity, as several members have discussed. (I'm sure someone has made the same comment I'm making now, but I'm going to post this anyway for engagement because I want people to see this clip for a reality check. It's good for the fan base to raise concerns publicly, as the talents have said, but also focus where the change is actually feasible rather than baseless backseating
Well said. This is just the objective stand-point. It's not praising or dissing. This is just how it works. Cover is understaffed for how much equipment they have. And any venue and equipment you're maintaining but not using is just a drain on your finances. Being understaffed in general affects a lot of other things directly, or indirectly. Tough times for Cover and HoloPro.
And the reason the studio is understaffed is because the kind of skills that would be useful for running a vtuber 3D studio are the same skills that are sought after in the broader entertainment and gaming industries, and despite their rise in fame Cover is still unable to compete in hiring experienced and trained technicians and operators against the likes of larger, more powerful corporations. So current Cover basically has to take fresh graduates and train them into the new hardware and the trickier unique aspects of a vtubing studio, and that will take a while.
@@adult11252 because there are having too much twitter or internet.😅😅 They have doubts about the word "PUBLIC COMPANY" like if someone buys stock they already own 100% of company
There is a very famous Spanish-speaking RUclipsr who commented that it wasn’t enough for the record companies to demonetize his old videos (that had millions of views); once they could no longer make any money from them, they simply deleted them (To date, none of those videos have been returned to him). The songs he used were in English, in case anyone didn't understand.
I think publishers are more willing to share rights with other companies within the same country, and Cover would be seen as a foreign company. NA publishers just don't care and will charge everyone the same.
Astel also talked very heavily about the ridiculous costs of licensing shortly after the GTA collab. The clipper VTuber Universe has a 15 minute long video clip of it titled "Things about the hololive studio and current holostars"
I'm at a loss as to why so many people in the comments section are still not convinced, even after Ina has explained it so clearly. It's easy for international fans to jump to the conspiracy theory that COVER, a Japanese company, is mistreating the international members. People like to believe that there is an evil mastermind behind the things they're not satisfied with. Because evil is something that can be defeated; that is, they can imagine a future where they win.
You are aware most original songs are at least 5 digits, right? Just because there's no copyright the song doesn't magically doesn't produce any costs. Calli prior to signing with UMG was the big exception because she actually wrote the songs and lyrics herself, which greatly reduced the cost of hiring outside professionals.
@@SethAbercromby I mean yeah, no shit, there are costs to producing high quality music lol. However, it is evergreen content. You don't pay every time a Holomem wants to perform it. Look at the Melbourne concert, it was pretty much all Hololive songs. Plus, it's more investment into the Hololive brand. For example, I love it when other vtubers cover Holo songs, or react channels react to Holo originals. Pay for a long term original or pay for a one time cover performance? Personally, I'd love for them to look into covering some EN songs that aren't part of a huge corporate conglomerate anyways, like Gunship or something.
@@7andaswitchblade Covers are a lot easier, because you only need to get persmission for Hololive as a group. You ever wondered why everyone seems to cover the same songs around the same time? That's because one person applied for permissions, and then everyone also interested jumped on the opportunity. For concerts originals are a lot easier though, because unlike for youtube covers, you need to reapply for permission for each individual concert you want to include a song cover for, along with its associated costs.
@@SethAbercromby For EN songs (which is what this clip is about) that is flat out not true. It is not a blanket permission, it is per performance. JP seems to be way more lenient and accommodating with covers, but EN is not. American music production companies are the low life scum of the artistic comm;unity. One of the most greedy and corrupt industries out there. Saying "covers are easier" is straight cap, for the EN side at least.
Ina certainly has her head attached firmly on her shoulders. She knows her limitations, but also knows how to push through with what she wants to do despite them.
Copyright is already a minefield, and the RIAA adds machine gun nests that shoot at anyone trying to cross it in the process of doing covers. It SUCKS.
The translated lyrics talk got me remembering nerdy RUclips cover singers who sell their English covers. My favorite one also does, and I have bought some of his, but still, with permission or not, I'm surprised that they so easily sell them on their own. So far, I'm assuming that they do so with the confidence that their covers also won't really be as famous or canon as the original releases. Meanwhile, over in Japan's Vocaloid and utaite scene, which has managed to reach the Japanese mainstream, while instrumentals are provided for free by the producers themselves, retailed covers tend to be packed in fancily marketed albums. And I just remembered Soraru having released compilations of his many years' worth of Niconico releases as a cover singer on Spotify during the past few years, and the relative informality I found there is something I haven't seen from other utaites yet.
I remember seeing somebody in chat during Ina's Pleides live complaining that there were no songs for English listeners (as if hearing the talents sing in Japanese is somehow a less enjoyable experience??) and I quickly realized that they have NO IDEA how complicated and expensive the music industry is in the west. You'd have a better chance at asking to meet the leader of a country than to get the rights to use an English song in a for profit concert/live stream (hell they'd probably still DMCA you even if you weren't making money. It honestly surprises me that people don't realize how hard it is to use English songs considering all the DMCA's you hear about every single day on youtube alone. That's a large part of why so many games come with a "Streamer mode" option nowadays. Honestly the only realistically affordable way to do it for cheap is if the talent wrote and produced the song themselves
This is a good comment, but I find this strange: > complaining that there were no songs for English listeners (as if hearing the talents sing in Japanese is somehow a less enjoyable experience??) yeah, when I buy an audiobook, I make sure it's in English, not Japanese, because I won't enjoy the Japanese one as much. Understanding the lyrics is an important part of music for some people. It can still be enjoyable, but yes, less enjoyable for me.
@@charltonrodda Fair enough. I guess I'm thinking from the mindset of "I just like seeing them perform" or "I just want all the hololive girls to be happy". As such, the content of the songs they sing are irrelevant to me. Just seeing them being able to perform at all for such a big crowd is what brings me the enjoyment. I'm not going there for a story (as one would do for an audiobook or the like) I'm going there to support my favorite idols in what they do. If you were simply there for the music then fine but I just don't think of it that way. (This is kind of a more personal preference thing but also if you really cared that much about the content of the songs they were singing you could just ask someone in chat to translate or send you a link to translated lyrics. I have Russian, French, and Korean songs on my phone that I barely understand at all but I still enjoy them because they sound good and/or are sung by artists that I like)
@@FartingSpider12 That makes a lot of sense, thanks for sharing your perspective! I respect the "I just wanna see them shine and be happy" attitude a lot. I do sometimes look up the lyrics to the songs, but it's not quite the same for me. I grew up singing, I love singing along, and I connect emotionally most strongly to the lyrics of songs - otoh my friend I usually watch it with couldn't care less. I do wish there were more songs I could understand on first listen, but it's good to know that there are reasons why the EN branch sings so few EN songs in concert. I'll just be glad they do sing them in the karaokes.
The en vs jp song thing comes down to preferences and somehow i think people coming to a holoEN concert expecting an english song is quite valid actually. Also, can you elaborate on the streamer mode part because the streamer mode that i know is quite a bit different from what i think youre referring to
As someone who works at a Mocap studio. Yeah it takes a lot of money to maintain and build a studio. You could outsource to a studio like the one I work at but then ti have the same quality as whay we have seen for Lives and such like that, it'll take a lot of work between the client/studio to ensure quality is right
Even with a clip like this explaining how difficult the whole process of acquiring EN songs there will be those who still find a way to lash out. I saw one comment out there still mad saying "Oh so you mean cover doesn't want to dish out money because they're greedy? I knew it!", vtuber fans right now especially in the EN side are emotionally unstable and its hard to reason with emotionally unstable people.
@@lilpeko4328 it's just twitter. Every now and then we need a PSA not to interact someone with blue checkmark. No matter how ridiculous they sound 99.9% of the time they know they're wrong, they just wanna farm engagements. Remember: blue checkmark = do not interact no checkmark = They're dumb fr. Feel free to correct them.
@@izmu Sadly its not just Twitter that you'll see those. Saddest part is they're legitimately former fans and are making up scenarios to the extreme. Criticism is important especially if we want a better working environment for the talents, but recently people are emotionally angry and are out for blood to witch hunt any talents within the company.
Yeah, some people just love stirring the pot, even when the 'how this works' is pretty obvious. Guess it's more fun to complain than to actually understand, huh?
Music copyright is always a pain to deal with when money is changing hands. I still don't quite understand how karaoke streams are OK as long as they're not archived (but often SCs remain enabled), but I'm glad that it's an option. I think what a lot of us would like to see is more original music to be in English, but that puts much more of it on the talents than the way a lot of it is done now. Essentially the lyrics would have to be written by the talent, or they need to individually seek out and commission a western producer who's willing to write lyrics as well, then jump through the 3rd party international corporation hoops that delay things quite a bit. Mori and Nerissa do that for example, but it's a LOT more work for a talent and their manager than if Cover handles all of it internally, and their established pool of producers don't have many English speakers. Plenty of talents aren't that involved, interested or invested in the music creation process. That's OK, I'm not speaking negatively on those who don't, they're just more interested in the performance side of things.
> I still don't quite understand how karaoke streams are OK as long as they're not archived as far as I'm aware, they're not. it's just that making them unarchived means they have the best change of being deleted before getting flagged/penalized by content ID.
@@ChamiCh Yeah this is the sort of thing Ina means by it being "grey zone" content. Where they could be hit by legal stuff over it, but that's only if they get hit by someone with the legal recourse to do so who is even aware that they're doing it, and even then probably would be something that got settled in a civil court case rather than a criminal one? Similar to someone selling fan art at a convention/online commissions that similarly are not shops you can easily just track down all the time.
Personally, it shouldn't matter whether members can sing English songs in their anniv streams or birthday streams because in the end they still sing, and every cover from them is beautiful anyways Also the "English members HAVE to sing English songs" claim is honestly funny. Like how does singing in JP make them "less EN"?
yeah it's still kind if irks me that people complaining about that, even in Ina last 3d concert i still see some comment 'again with the live only with japanese song and not a single english song despite being an EN member'. Wondering do they not realize why they always do an unarchived stream when usually singing an english song i wonder.
People like hololive cuz they cater more to the weeb audience so it makes sense they would sing more JP songs, but i have seen even Japanese fans make fun of the en girls being too JP focused. it's a common meme among jp fans to say debuff language whenever an en sings in or speaks japanese.
"How does making them sing in JP make them less EN?" Okay so, having to learn JP in the first place is already making them bilingual, and many cases have popped up where people are slowly forgetting their native language. Just look at Kiara, Cecilia and Baelz for that, in just hololive. It's much harder for them, but it's still less hard than the west music industry!
I mean music is universal languages, you can still know a bangers even though you don't know the meaning of it, even in us people singing about ass and still call it bangers 😂
Great insight. Even in hololive. It works like an ecosystem within the industry. Company, staff, Artist & Creator to fans create a great cycle of economy.
the copyright with english songs it's crazy in some cases, i follow AEW for example where they wanted "the final countodown" for one of their talent but it was way too much expensive, in the end they used but only in some occasion
Some fans need to understand that some things are far easier said than done, nothing in the entertainment industry (as far as I know of) can be done straightforwardly. One would also have to keep in mind of how snobbish and “hostile” the big music industry is toward other businesses, especially those they deem as competitors. So it would be easy to imagine how the music industry would act toward Hololive and Hololive’s talents wanting to do a cover song of a music the copyright holder own the copyright to, which would either be them prohibiting Hololive from doing so or making the cost to cover the song to be very expensive. (And honestly speaking, the people who like to demand, are most likely the very people who have never provided anyway.)
I get not being able to use the actual song (the official recording) without having to pay for the rights, but paying in order to perform a cover makes absolutely no sense to me, I'm 35, back in the day bands didn't even have to ask for permission they could cover whatever they wanted as long as they didn't claim it was their original song...
I understant whafor allt Ina says but also I think that maybe something related to music is possible, like doing personal translations of anime songs (or corporate ones, that can be used from anyone in Holo pro). Also, as a Spanish speaker, I wish that someone in Holo can sing archived songs in my language but it have some other difficulties like the fragmentation in the legislation of copyright things but that also offers more easy access to songs registered under some specific countries
@@tropicalAzureif you've seen how many people responded to nerissa comforting a fan worrying about being a "fake fan" on twitter you'd know how many people are proud to state that not only do they not watch streams, or vods, or seek out clips, sometimes they only rely on what their twitter for you page shows them, lol. I have absolutely no faith in the complainers suddenly gaining common sense to seek answers to their concerns before tweeting up a storm of their complaints
It makes no sense to build a 3d studio in NA or buy centralized housing for them. At its peak before the doggos and Biboo moved to Japan, there were 11 Holoen members in NA. Before Advent there were only 6, and before Council there were only 3. Now that Justice is here with Biboo and the Doggos moving to Japan and Ame and Fauna graduating, there are currently only 7 members left in NA, 3 in EU, and the rest are in Japan. The costs of a studio are already massive and considering there are only 7 members that could reasonably take advantage that would have to travel to the location where it would be built to begin with, they may as well travel to Japan. Centralized housing for the talents would just be a terrible idea because what better situation for a stalker?
@@yogayuliandana8958If they're already going to fly/travel to a studio, they might as well fly/do it at the actual Cover studio in Japan. Building a smaller, less-specced studio outside of Japan doesn't make sense from a cost-standpoint.
Well for a 3d studio they can use it for practice if they want a 3d concert outside of japan. Rather that hired/contract studio for someone which worst if they become YAB or they have trust issue especially doxxing there talents.
@@yogayuliandana8958 They've already run the cost-benefit analysis. Just like Ina said, it's not simply just building a new studio, it's also hiring people to run said studio as well as necessary security. The price for the studio alone is already exorbitant and cutting costs for lower spec tech isn't worth it given what they intend to use it for. The talents will already have to travel to get to it and as I've stated there are currently only 7 talents in NA to begin with so to do all that for just 7 people is a massive expense. Remember, Cover had to go public in order to continue operating.
I think one thing to keep in mind as we grouse (justifiably) about how lame IP rights are and how greedy record companies are, Cover in some sense operates very similarly to them. The talents aren't employees, they are contractors. They don't own their model (with some Gen 0 exceptions), their likeness or their body of work. If talents want to produce events and songs they are expected to pay out of pocket possibly with an "advance" from the company, again kind of similar to a record deal. I guess the big thing that separates them is a graduated idol isn't monetizeable in perpetuity in the same way a music album is, but if that changes over time and VOD catalogues become assets I would expect to see the behavior surrounding their ownership and management get more aggressive.
Another reason why a studio in the US doesn't make sense besides the fact that even those who live there would have to travel anyway, now most HoloEN girls live outside of the US, and in Holostars EN I think it's about half.
This just gave me an unpleasant reminder that there Is someone who literally had to spend her OWN money just to make a music video for her fans just to be taken It out by NejiEN 24 hours later
4:21 - Sure, it's easier. No corporate on your side to tell you "no." Right up until the copyright holder corporate decides you are a big enough target to go after. Or just decide to make an example of you. Should be obvious, but sometimes people seem to think copyright laws only apply to big companies. It's crazy that a song license would cost that much though. Though I suppose it's fairly common knowledge that American music labels are greedy and exploitative in the extreme.
Working with someone and living with them are two VERY different things. Not saying this would actually happen but i genuinely think IF they had like a holo dormitory i can see talent being at each others throats by week 4. Yeah some would probably thrive but it just takes one or two that arent as friendly to create a hostile environment then clicks emerge and boom you have high school all over again.
Maybe they just haven’t heard how epic a 3D concert can be when you’re vibing with the song, language barrier or not! Who needs English songs when the music and vibe is on fire?😆
as a guy that has built my own most comfortable setup in my medium room, no matter the upgrade or sheer improvement of a pc that is lent to you, nothing feels like home its not just the fps its also the environment youre in
This is part of the reason why Vshojo even exists at all. Those girls and gunrun knew that vtubers were essentially getting too big to be comfortable within that greyzone, this is also why a ton of streamers and youtubers are in agencies because you're gonna want and need a lawyer eventually and so that you dont pay out of pocket if suddenly one day a company sues you for one reason or another. But like with everything, maybe it shouldnt be like this, copyright needs an overhaul, but they're doing what they can to make what they want without getting themselves or cover in trouble.
Yes. Obviously it is. Every single piece of content that anyone makes is by default copyrighted. And if you're using something that someone else made for which the copyright hasn't expired yet (70 years after the author dies in most cases from what I've understood) you need the permissions or the platform (like RUclips) will for their own legal safety take down things which don't have their permissions in order if reported or spotted by automation. That is why vtubers and fans always talk about the permissions whenever someone asks if they can or can't sing a particular song. Depending on the song and the backing track the permissions required for the composition, the backing track's performance's audio, the lyrics, translated lyrics, etc. can all be thing the talent and company need to acquire separately. For distributing a song as audio only you'd need a mechanical license. For including it into a piece of other content like a karaoke stream or a video you need a sync license which is a lot more expensive usually. If you want to archive it as a VOD then that becomes even more expensive and you'll likely need to pay royalties per view. Buying the rights to do a music video for a cover song is often so damn expensive (as Reine and other talents have told us) that it simply isn't worth the money and the effort. So as Kiara and others have explained in practice Hololive talents have songs for karaoke go into three different buckets: 1) safe to sing and to leave in a VOD 2) safe to sing but no VOD 3) not safe to sing at all not even unarchived. If it's just JP songs they can for most of them easily get the permissions from JASRAC which is why they can archive those karaoke streams. For EN songs they can't be archived because it's harder and not worth it to get that level of permissions. And some EN songs and basically almost all German songs that Kiara would've wanted to sing that in the past at least was completely a no-go. Back in the day (a few years ago) ID and EN talents used to sing a lot of English songs unarchived. The ID branch got into trouble first with the backing tracks getting caught in RUclips's content ID systems so they started getting them all from a karaoke backing track service that had all the permissions done correctly so the talents wouldn't need to worry about RUclips's automated systems striking down their streams while they were singing. But as the EN branch didn't have as strict management the talents were picking up random backing tracks wherever they could find them and which then weren't safe to use with RUclips's automated copyright related systems. In the end EN also switched to doing what ID had been doing which allowed them to do their EN karaoke streams without such issues. Anyway that's a summary of what I consider the most important bits and the history behind them... there's been lots of discussions about this stuff on the fan forums throughout the years.
I can answer only based on US law. The works created by composers, performers, producers, audio editors, etc. are protected by US copyright law. Under copyright law, the owner of the copyright has exclusive rights to copy, publicly perform, modify and distribute a copyrighted work. The owners of copyrighted work monetize their works by granting rights for others to use the works for a fee. The unauthorized copying of a work would deprive the copyright owner of a just payment for the owner’s work. The unauthorized copying also constitutes copyright infringement, in which an owner can sue the infringer for damages. US law give sites such as RUclips, Twitch, etc. a limited immunity if they immediately take down an infringing work. If they do not, these platforms could be subject to an infringement action.
Holodorm is a security nightmare. I wouldn't recommend it and I can see Cover never pushed this through. As hololive one of those that prioritize talents' privacy and identity management having a dorm announced publicly is dangerous.
Thank you for the clip and information. It makes a lot of sense. Indies get away with a lot simply because they are smaller that massive corpos like COVER cannot. These issues unfournately aren't an easy one that COVER can solve and reality forces things to be the way they are. It really is more economical to do things in Japan. On top of higher rent, you also have to consider employee salaries. I'm sure the cost of hiring someone in say LA or NYC is insanely expensive compared to elsewhere.
Somehow, a LOT of these EN song issues can be blamed on Lars Ulrich, drummer of the band Mettalica. I'd suggest looking into his role in allowing the DMCA itself to form.
Easy to complain hard to accomplish. We’re merely witnessing the success of Holo, at the moment. And still they’re a startup that needs lot to be done to grow and flow.
On the Otherside, They also earn money if radio stations or other people use their Holomem Original Songs BUT as Moona and others said, the proccess of creating Original Songs are Insanely Expensive.
I think it's pretty obvious there's a lot of procedures and restrictions, fans that try to stir up something and leash out directly at talents and in streams are... something else... Don't they stop to think? That said it's nice that both Ina and IRyS are being upfront about it, not like it's a corporation secret or anything anyway. Also there's a lot of different kind of content, right? Like the Unarchived Karaokes and all, so they probably all follow different rules.
I hate the western music industry with a passion. Their copyright claims are some of the worst in any industry, and they go after whoever, no matter what to protect their own IP. Hell, they even go after big name artists who helped made them successful. Just get a look at the history of Michael Jackson and Sony and how messed up that turned out, with "messed up" being kind words from me
In the US, it's very easy and fairly cheap to record and sell a cover of a song, you just need a "mechanical license" which covers the tune and lyrics. By law, companies can't refuse to sell you this license and there's a cap on the maximum cost per copy sold. Big music streaming platforms like Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, and RUclips Music are covered under a blanket license where they're responsible for tracking and paying per-stream fees. The uploader just has to tag the song correctly when uploading, no extra licenses needed. (You can also sell CDs and digital downloads under a mechanical license, but then you're responsible for acquiring the license and making payments) If you want to synchronize it with ANY sort of video (music video, concert livestream), you need a "sync license", which does not have a blanket legal framework. Those have to be negotiated with the rights-holders on a case-by-case basis, and they can charge a lot or flat-out refuse. Translated lyrics count as a derivative work, not part of the original, so they're covered by yet another different license. If I'm understanding everything correctly, this would explain how Elizabeth was able to make her Blackbird cover. It's on streaming services, including RUclips Music, which would be covered by the compulsory mechanical license, but there's no music video or livestream performance, so no sync license required. Of course, since Cover is not a US company, I wouldn't be surprised if there are extra hoops they have to jump through for the mechanical license stuff.
The hoops are 10x worse for vtubers because they are technically not a real person under the law, they are character. If say moist critical wanted to do a cover of a Taylor swift song he can get a licence to do it but can't monetize it or sell goods related to it without spending alot of money to Taylor swift, But because of the status of a vtuber under the law they aren't technically allowed to do it, that's why other than maybe Ado and ERB you never see western songs covers by vtubers.
@YouAreSleepyToo A company is a person under law. They can get the rights. It doesn't matter what they're fronting from a law sense. Now, the copyright holder might not want to have their works related to anime girls, and refuse to license it, but that's their personal opinions, not law.
You guys should complain directly to cover via email instead commenting here 😂 So many people "know" how to run company better than cover/holo in these comments lmao
Western music industry as it currently stands is so depressing to think about, lol. I remember moom wishing they can do karaoke of any song even if it's unmonetized and it sounded like a good idea until I remembered youtube AI can still strike you down midstream with monetization off 😂😭 just a sad sad state of affairs, man.
The security issues of a non-JP living in JP for a prolonged period of time cannot be understated: just look at that happened to that famous holo-adjacent Austrian cosplayer and bare in mind that, unless you're a JP citizen, a lot of legal remedies you take granted for simply just aren't available to you. Not to mention the potential for administrative... mishaps that Ina would be all too familiar with.
English song copyrights are a huge mess in itself, unless the artist managed to get a contract that does not sell themselves to the record company and keep at least some rights to their own songs. Doujins are a grey area, they are allowed up to a point. Comiket is still around every year, but JP companies tend to ignore copyrights for doujins because it is practically free promotions. Tho one reason Vocaloid/Utaite managed to stand up other than being indie, was that they make their own songs or they sing songs made by others, easier to discuss rights with fellow artists compared to corporates. Except bad apple i guess.
English song copyrights are tricky, especially when artists don't retain rights after signing with record labels. Doujins are a grey area allowed up to a point, since JP companies often overlook them for free promotion. Vocaloid/Utaite thrive because they create or cover their own songs, making rights easier to manage. But yeah, 'Bad Apple' is a rare case.
Tldr: Think of it as Factorio the game. Its easy until you forget which part does what, and fixing that is gonna be one giant headache after another. Now add in Copyright claims where the company is solely at the mercy of the copyright claimers and they only get 15 strikes and they are OUT! All that hard worked GONE.
Who the heck wants an english trendy song in a goddamn anime-fans focused events? Right, the newer fans that doesn't appreciate Jpop as much as necessary to enjoy 3D lives as is without complaining about the "lack of EN in English". Please, to whoever finds or sees people complaining about this. Refer them to this video, pronto.
The copyright she talked about is for archived live right? I wonder about unarchived karaoke broadcast. Since they can sang a lot of english songs there I guess it's much cheaper?
Yes, the copyright issues are often tied to archived streams, but unarchiver karaoke can still be tricky. While it's true some platforms may have more lenient rules for live broadcasts, copyright holders still have the right to take action if they're not happy with the use of their music. It’s cheaper in some ways, but still not risk-free
Yea JP copyright laws are no different from US law, the difference is that Japanese actually follow the law strictly. Copyright law even in the US states that all IP rights belong to the people who create and/or own them. Stuff like streaming, modding, to stuff like selling fan art are actually infringing laws, because we don't have the distribution rights, we are supposed to actually contact rights owners to get permission which would normally involve signing contracts and/or paying, but people except lawful Japanese, just assume we don't have to and just do whatever we want with IP.
Ina's background as a professional illustrator (who probably has spent some time in the fanart scene as well) really shines through here and it really feels like something people need to hear. Its not that Cover is just wanting to place a bunch of restrictions on what their streamers can play, etc. (as shown by the wild games that they've let members play recently) so much as it being something they take on the liability for as a company and therefore need to make sure they do things properly in order to not have it cause problems for not just the one streamer but the rest of their staff and other streamers. Especially because millions of eyes are potentially on any Hololive Member at any time and it only takes one set of those eyes to be someone who can make a copyright strike to ruin a member's channel (which almost happened a few times early on, before Cover got a lot more strict with permissions). Indies can just choose to run the risks of existing in that grey area (and pray the "gods" don't smite them down), particularly if they aren't heavily monetized, or put in a ton of work themselves to do it by the book but either way its a burden that being in a company like Hololive offloads onto the support staff in exchange for the members just having to accept when they can't always have what they want immediately (though Calli did eventually get to play a version of Persona 3 on stream as an example of things eventually working out due to Hololive being seen as a good way to market the new remake of the game).
Because the translation has to be with the artist permission too. To put it simply the translation could be not in the line with the artist's intention, and they could be sued for that for misinterpreting.
I hate what the vtuber community has become, we used to enjoy the streams and not care about whats being done behind the scenes. Nowadays its always a stream where kids spam questions about management and expenses. Let it go, y'all arent the BBB, if something becomes unfair they will know how to handle it, they are way smarter and older.
The problem in the Vtuber community right now is some people/viewers/fans become so special. Think they own or have authority of that vtuber or streamer. They think there are loyal and good fans aka enlightenment.😅😅 Those who are spamming: "Being indie is so easy and big money" "The Corps era is over and the indies rise" "Being indie don't have restrictions they can do whatever they want" Lol, it really funny when I see those . Sometimes I'm thinking, like do they really watch indie vtubers or they know indie vtuber because someone hype or trend them.😅😅
That hasn't been the case for a long while: delving behind the scenes in vtubing is a topic that's been around for as long as vtubers exist, and a lot of vtubers including in companies like Hololive do actually offer insight into said backroom happenings often. As the fandom grows though, obviously the number of people interested in the behind the scenes also grows in proportion.
@@StrikeNoir105E been through almost all of the graduations and terminations hololive has had and believe me these new fans are the most weird ones the community has gotten so far...
This is because Vtubing already become mainstream more new eyes to the scene, for people who follow the vtuber culture they should understand. But for new people they would be confused about many things because they only see it as streamer and they can't understand why indie different with corpo vtuber. What I hate about this people when we explained it to them they wouldn't accept it because what they think is what should be the correct one. At that point just ignore them.
Nerissa most likely got the perm to translate the song during her pre-debut. So that translation is already approved by the composer of the song. I believe it is easier to get the perm from composer who is not represented by big music label yet. Like you can't easily translate YOASOBI song for example.
@@yamiRicAlso it's easier if the producer in question is Japanese and is affiliated with JASRAC. Much harder if they are affiliated with heavyweights like BMI or ASCAP.
Even when animes get official dubs the songs are still in Japanese cause that's what the artist wants but you would think for a EN branch holo would find some EN songs that they could sing. Granted not everyone has there own songs to sing but still it's a EN branch and having them sing in Japanese kinda defeats the purpose of having a EN branch. Even biboo couldn't give her original song a english title and had to have Japanese lyrics.
@@lexmarks567 and its up to the talents themselves? A lot of them sings en songs in unarchived streams. It doesn’t defeat the purpose of being an EN branch just because they sang some japanese songs for their 3d live which they got permission easily compared to en songs permission.They stream in English, play games in english, chat in english and talk about relatable things with the western side.And the producer for biboo’s song is a japanese track maker. It could be just simple as biboo wanting to make a japanese song. A lot of hololive members have songs in english: calli &kiara.
thats the reason why some graduated its not because they hate the company its just they understand the bigger the company the higher the risk and harder to do things on their own
Depends on how you see it. Alot of indies, they got more freedom but way less protection. Like if their channel gets taken down for some reason, no one can help them
Going indie as a VTuber does offer incredible creative freedom. However, it can come with challenges like handling all aspects of the business side and dealing with potential risks without the safety net of a company or agency. If you're comfortable with that and have the resources or support to handle it, going indie can be very rewarding.
I think you're grossly misunderstanding the meaning of "risk" here. Those without company backing or significant clout are playing more high risk. Copyright can possibly be enforced on any derivative work (streaming games, song covers). Some indies only get away coz 1) they're too small to be noticed, 2) not worth as much money to sue or 3) there's simply too many of them to enforce on. They're playing on a Spartacus situation here.
As someone who also follows the indie scene, the amount of scandals, scams, dramas, beef, and legal shitshows that indie vtubers get into are a LOT, and oftentimes are the kind of issues that being under proper management or an affiliation with a company would've solved (easy example, Bao getting scammed multiple times by her merchandising partners). For every Dokibird or Filian that exists, there are several hundreds more indie vtubers that don't make the cut, fold under the pressure, or are forever stagnating in obscurity, because as it turns out being an indie has its own set of challenges that aspirants need to tackle by themselves. Corpo vtubing may not be for everyone sure, but the reverse is also true: indie vtubing is not for everyone, and oftentimes once an indie vtuber graduates that's the end of their road.
It makes me wonder how Dooby or Filian manage to afford it. Dooby might have earned some stuff from her previous job(s) maybe, but it makes me wonder what Filian's background is. She not only has a 3d studio, she breaks headset like you can find them at Walmart for $20
Dooby's 3D studio is impressive, but she herself has mentioned the cost of her equipment, and given we know the costs of Cover Corp's own equipment, all of the cameras in Dooby's studio is outpriced by a single one of the studio cameras that Cover's studio has, and the latter has around several hundred of those cameras in use. Dooby has an impressive studio as a solo indie sure, but it's clear she got a lot of the funds for it from her previous career, and it's still mostly an average small studio and not the kind of massive studio an operation like Cover Corp. needs.
Filian's studio uses IR tracking instead of 3D cameras, she has spent a small fortune on that equipment and has mentioned the type of equipment she buys especially when she went over how much she has spent because of accidentally breaking stuff. (mind you with the new VR headsets were you can switch between looking at the environment versus looking at VR chat) that should be markedly reduced for her.
@@raisofahri5797 Yeah, it makes sense that a major idol company can afford one.. Not as much as two indies. But apparently Dooby had a lot stashed money, and Fillian's set up is different, expensive but cheaper
You can check cover studio spec, iirc they are using the newest camera for motion tracking (using that dot on body) named valkyrie which cost 50k usd each and they have dozens for each studio. Also cover should improve their 3d software more, try watch kiara stream/clip when she collab with korean vtuber their 3d home app is way better than holo
It's not just being in a company. It's being in a Japanese company. It's harder to do English covers because they are a Japanese company and have to deal with Japanese copyright laws.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Ah, the music industry. 20% music, 80% legal hellscape
and the artists make less than 10% of the money
How else will the poor music lables keep artists completely under their thumb.
A lot of the fans need to see this. Ina's being real about the practicality of some fan suggestions.
This, people think that they're such smarty pants suggesting stuff and comparing things w/ other vtubers down the block.
Why can't you play/sing this and that when the vtuber there can?
EN gets no support, it's always in jp. You guys should just build your own 3d studio etc. etc.
Management didn't get perms for this game again they're bullying you guys!
Hololvie already experienced a massive company wide content wipe because of copyright issues they're not going to step on that landmine again. That's why they're going through so many hoops to prevent time, effort, money and emotion to suddenly go down the drain because some IP owners suddenly had an itch to be a d*ck.
@@mystrunner5166don’t forget that with an EN studio, some members might still need to do the same amount of traveling since EN isn’t just 1 country
And when 1 member sometimes complaint about something, the fans are too quick to attack the company without thinking if if could effect the company and that would effect the rest of the members
@@izzadk86 when a company factually does something bad to one of their employees, especially if it incurs notable financial loss for the said employee and an impact on their mental health, the issue simply has to be brought up publicly in detail. No matter how many other employees will be "inconvenienced" by this (it's not fatal, after all). Else nothing will ever change, and those other employees will eventually have to deal with same problems happening to them and the circle will continue. JP companies are some of the worst in this regard, especially with international employees. Shareholders pull the strings, after all. Just ask kurocolor. Publicity of corporate issues is the only thing that can actually affect shareholders' decisions for the benefit of employees.
This is very well explained from the talent's point of view. Ina did not mince her words.
When ERB released her Blackbird cover, Yagoo himself tweeted about it and even posted about it on his LinkedIn. That's not something he does for just any cover. So even for the company, it's a big deal that they were able to find a new avenue for their talents to cover English songs.
If EN copyright costs as much as a live, and ERB did not one EN cover but three, it's really a wonder how ERB and the team helping her managed to get perms. I doubt they would have just paid the fully amount (though they could have).
@@digster2344 back again on what ina says, it's depend on what they're using it for. I imagine using it for a cover song and singing it on concert is different
@@digster2344 I think another comment under this video explains it: a "mechanical license" for covering songs for release on streaming platforms vs. a "sync license" required for covering songs with an MV or on a concert livestream. The former is easier to get than the latter and has a fixed cost.
@@digster2344She actually did 4 covers I kinda wonder if she got a good deal for the classic Christmas songs that made them cheaper for some reason.
@@DatAtDawn it's also possible that she has network, maybe friends or family, to get the access for that, considering her real life background (idk much about forbidden knowledge but I think I saw leak about her past and I concluded that it's not weird for her to have the network related to that field by now)
seems like english song copyright and japanese game copyright are two last boss for content creators that belong to a company
It's more complex for a reason.
For anyone, when it comes to music it doesn't matter if you are indie or corpo it's 10x easier to get JP perms for music, but 10x worse to get game perms from JP.
En copyright is worse, i still remember once pewdiepie play with kind of instrument and said this is "my heart will go on" then play random note and still got copyrighted.. 🤦♂️
Maybe if it's indie music or relatively small music studio the cost of covering their music is not high or even free if they do join promotion
It's easier to get perm from JP music as they usually under one copyright agency (JASRAC, iirc). Meanwhile for English song, the copyright are belong to different artist and recording company.
Thank you for the clip. It has been mentioned many times but this is the first time the issues are all got answered in single clip. I hope this clip stayed up as long as possible so I can keep link new fans to this clip. We got surge of new fans since Advent and Justice debuts and they started to bring back these issues again.
And we will continue to get new fans when the next gen drops asking the same questions, and the next gen after that, and the next gen after that, and the next gen after that, and the next gen after that, you get my point
@@Goober-s1jI don't, please explain /j
Just decided to see more info about licensing and couple of minutes of search gave me this:
The amount an artist can make from licensing their song for commercials or TV varies widely based on several factors, including the artist's popularity, the type of project, and the usage of the song. Here are some general guidelines:
Independent Artists: They might earn anywhere from $1,000 to $10,000 for a single license, depending on the project's budget and exposure.
Mid-Tier Artists: Established artists with some recognition can earn between $10,000 and $50,000.
Top-Tier Artists: Well-known artists or major hits can fetch anywhere from $50,000 to several hundred thousand dollars for a commercial or TV show.
Additional Considerations:
- Duration and Scope: Longer usage or global rights can increase the fee.
- Type of Media: Licensing for a national TV campaign typically pays more than for local ads.
- Negotiation: Fees can often be negotiated based on the artist's leverage and the specific deal.
So even if i knew it was hell to get licenses for EN songs and cost can be high, some people asking that really need to 1st look into this stuff
Kiara has mentioned English song issues before too. I'm so glad she found an artist that writes English songs she can cover and sing (reasonably i assume), KIRA.
And the asteroid music team that writes/produces for her.
Confrimed: Ina is a creature of comfort.
She’s clearly the Avatar of Comfiness
@@Between_Scylla_and_Kharybdis Also high priestess of the floor gang
I seen discussions about US studios and song perms among Holofans a lot. It is great that an official Holomem like Ina explains this stuff so fans can know better.
Western fans simply cannot believe Americas isn't automatically the best thing for everything (by sheer difference in labor cost alone it simply illogical to keep Americas 3D Studio compared to just giving the very few talents ticket prices for a Japanese company)
@@adhiwicaksono6149 Even if we ignored the cost aspect, it would still make no sense from a logistics point of view. With the Tokyo studio, the majority (all?) of the JP talents can commute to it on a daily basis. The US, by contrast, is huge and the EN talents are scattered across the world. Even in the very best case scenario, at most 2-3 talents would be able to commute to it, but there's a good chance it'd actually be 0, if none of them live in California, where the studio would likely need to be located (the US office is there, after all, and it'd make the most sense from staffing point of view). In the end, the vast majority of talents would still be away from home and require accommodation / streaming setup when they have studio work, while also having none of the benefits of a Japan visit (meeting JP / ID talents and managers, off-collabs, visiting JP Holo stores, picking up their fanmail, having fun in another country in their off-time, etc.)
@@adhiwicaksono6149 That or build your own "low budget" but in house studio like Ame did.
@@donkeyy8331 that "low budget" is not something that 90% of American could even afford, well they might afford for the "maintenance" fee.
@@donkeyy8331 but most member need to travel there, so why bother to go there when big expensive studio exist
Also for en songs the perms are randomly bizarre expensive as irys once talked about it. Even if you use it one time only it is still expensive. She talked about perms sometimes the reaction from some company takes ages to react to and even if they do react they make the perms extremly expensive
That's due to western label companies wanting loads of money no matter where you're from. Eastern publishers are much more willing to give rights to eastern companies, from the same country.
One more thing about building studios outside of Japan is that Cover had to go public to fund their studio (in addition to what Yagoo said, that they NEEDED to pay the investors that backed them early on) and then even with the studio Cover is still having trouble even recruiting enough staff for them to fully utilize the existing capacity, as several members have discussed. (I'm sure someone has made the same comment I'm making now, but I'm going to post this anyway for engagement because I want people to see this clip for a reality check. It's good for the fan base to raise concerns publicly, as the talents have said, but also focus where the change is actually feasible rather than baseless backseating
Well said. This is just the objective stand-point. It's not praising or dissing. This is just how it works. Cover is understaffed for how much equipment they have. And any venue and equipment you're maintaining but not using is just a drain on your finances. Being understaffed in general affects a lot of other things directly, or indirectly. Tough times for Cover and HoloPro.
That is true but well some people are ignorant. They think if someone goes public it is the end of the world. 😅😅😅
And the reason the studio is understaffed is because the kind of skills that would be useful for running a vtuber 3D studio are the same skills that are sought after in the broader entertainment and gaming industries, and despite their rise in fame Cover is still unable to compete in hiring experienced and trained technicians and operators against the likes of larger, more powerful corporations. So current Cover basically has to take fresh graduates and train them into the new hardware and the trickier unique aspects of a vtubing studio, and that will take a while.
This. I feel like people focus too much on downside about "being public", but there is also "upside". Like it or not, we live in "capitalism" world.
@@adult11252 because there are having too much twitter or internet.😅😅
They have doubts about the word "PUBLIC COMPANY" like if someone buys stock they already own 100% of company
There is a very famous Spanish-speaking RUclipsr who commented that it wasn’t enough for the record companies to demonetize his old videos (that had millions of views); once they could no longer make any money from them, they simply deleted them (To date, none of those videos have been returned to him).
The songs he used were in English, in case anyone didn't understand.
Quien?
I'm Indonesian and I feel the same way, HoloID members have difficulty covering Indonesian songs because of copyright issues.
I think publishers are more willing to share rights with other companies within the same country, and Cover would be seen as a foreign company. NA publishers just don't care and will charge everyone the same.
Astel also talked very heavily about the ridiculous costs of licensing shortly after the GTA collab. The clipper VTuber Universe has a 15 minute long video clip of it titled "Things about the hololive studio and current holostars"
I had so many questions about the things Ina mentioned here, thank you for clipping it!
The eloquence, insight, and professionalism of a daisenpai. Right here. This is an important clip.
I'm at a loss as to why so many people in the comments section are still not convinced, even after Ina has explained it so clearly. It's easy for international fans to jump to the conspiracy theory that COVER, a Japanese company, is mistreating the international members. People like to believe that there is an evil mastermind behind the things they're not satisfied with. Because evil is something that can be defeated; that is, they can imagine a future where they win.
Because of another company 😅😅 that why there are having vtuber corps hate.
They underestimate the unchecked greed of the American corporate landscape.
It's because they don't have the capacity to understand, well, anything.
Just gotta keep making these in house bangers and forgo the whole copyright/covers thing all together.
You are aware most original songs are at least 5 digits, right? Just because there's no copyright the song doesn't magically doesn't produce any costs.
Calli prior to signing with UMG was the big exception because she actually wrote the songs and lyrics herself, which greatly reduced the cost of hiring outside professionals.
@@SethAbercromby I mean yeah, no shit, there are costs to producing high quality music lol. However, it is evergreen content. You don't pay every time a Holomem wants to perform it. Look at the Melbourne concert, it was pretty much all Hololive songs. Plus, it's more investment into the Hololive brand. For example, I love it when other vtubers cover Holo songs, or react channels react to Holo originals. Pay for a long term original or pay for a one time cover performance?
Personally, I'd love for them to look into covering some EN songs that aren't part of a huge corporate conglomerate anyways, like Gunship or something.
@@7andaswitchblade Covers are a lot easier, because you only need to get persmission for Hololive as a group. You ever wondered why everyone seems to cover the same songs around the same time? That's because one person applied for permissions, and then everyone also interested jumped on the opportunity.
For concerts originals are a lot easier though, because unlike for youtube covers, you need to reapply for permission for each individual concert you want to include a song cover for, along with its associated costs.
@@SethAbercromby For EN songs (which is what this clip is about) that is flat out not true. It is not a blanket permission, it is per performance. JP seems to be way more lenient and accommodating with covers, but EN is not. American music production companies are the low life scum of the artistic comm;unity. One of the most greedy and corrupt industries out there. Saying "covers are easier" is straight cap, for the EN side at least.
Ina certainly has her head attached firmly on her shoulders. She knows her limitations, but also knows how to push through with what she wants to do despite them.
Copyright is already a minefield, and the RIAA adds machine gun nests that shoot at anyone trying to cross it in the process of doing covers. It SUCKS.
ina is a pretty smart business lady.
The translated lyrics talk got me remembering nerdy RUclips cover singers who sell their English covers. My favorite one also does, and I have bought some of his, but still, with permission or not, I'm surprised that they so easily sell them on their own. So far, I'm assuming that they do so with the confidence that their covers also won't really be as famous or canon as the original releases. Meanwhile, over in Japan's Vocaloid and utaite scene, which has managed to reach the Japanese mainstream, while instrumentals are provided for free by the producers themselves, retailed covers tend to be packed in fancily marketed albums. And I just remembered Soraru having released compilations of his many years' worth of Niconico releases as a cover singer on Spotify during the past few years, and the relative informality I found there is something I haven't seen from other utaites yet.
I remember seeing somebody in chat during Ina's Pleides live complaining that there were no songs for English listeners (as if hearing the talents sing in Japanese is somehow a less enjoyable experience??) and I quickly realized that they have NO IDEA how complicated and expensive the music industry is in the west.
You'd have a better chance at asking to meet the leader of a country than to get the rights to use an English song in a for profit concert/live stream (hell they'd probably still DMCA you even if you weren't making money. It honestly surprises me that people don't realize how hard it is to use English songs considering all the DMCA's you hear about every single day on youtube alone. That's a large part of why so many games come with a "Streamer mode" option nowadays.
Honestly the only realistically affordable way to do it for cheap is if the talent wrote and produced the song themselves
This is a good comment, but I find this strange:
> complaining that there were no songs for English listeners (as if hearing the talents sing in Japanese is somehow a less enjoyable experience??)
yeah, when I buy an audiobook, I make sure it's in English, not Japanese, because I won't enjoy the Japanese one as much. Understanding the lyrics is an important part of music for some people. It can still be enjoyable, but yes, less enjoyable for me.
@@charltonrodda Fair enough. I guess I'm thinking from the mindset of "I just like seeing them perform" or "I just want all the hololive girls to be happy". As such, the content of the songs they sing are irrelevant to me. Just seeing them being able to perform at all for such a big crowd is what brings me the enjoyment. I'm not going there for a story (as one would do for an audiobook or the like) I'm going there to support my favorite idols in what they do. If you were simply there for the music then fine but I just don't think of it that way.
(This is kind of a more personal preference thing but also if you really cared that much about the content of the songs they were singing you could just ask someone in chat to translate or send you a link to translated lyrics. I have Russian, French, and Korean songs on my phone that I barely understand at all but I still enjoy them because they sound good and/or are sung by artists that I like)
calli is the only one I think would have an easier time of it because she's with a label but the other talents have pretty much no chance.
@@FartingSpider12 That makes a lot of sense, thanks for sharing your perspective! I respect the "I just wanna see them shine and be happy" attitude a lot.
I do sometimes look up the lyrics to the songs, but it's not quite the same for me. I grew up singing, I love singing along, and I connect emotionally most strongly to the lyrics of songs - otoh my friend I usually watch it with couldn't care less.
I do wish there were more songs I could understand on first listen, but it's good to know that there are reasons why the EN branch sings so few EN songs in concert. I'll just be glad they do sing them in the karaokes.
The en vs jp song thing comes down to preferences and somehow i think people coming to a holoEN concert expecting an english song is quite valid actually. Also, can you elaborate on the streamer mode part because the streamer mode that i know is quite a bit different from what i think youre referring to
Ina's very wise indeed. Thanks for the clip, I learned a lot.
As someone who works at a Mocap studio. Yeah it takes a lot of money to maintain and build a studio.
You could outsource to a studio like the one I work at but then ti have the same quality as whay we have seen for Lives and such like that, it'll take a lot of work between the client/studio to ensure quality is right
True the set up is important
Copyright is such a struggle and always will be
some people just wanna start something, even tho its easily understandable how this kind of business works
Even with a clip like this explaining how difficult the whole process of acquiring EN songs there will be those who still find a way to lash out. I saw one comment out there still mad saying "Oh so you mean cover doesn't want to dish out money because they're greedy? I knew it!", vtuber fans right now especially in the EN side are emotionally unstable and its hard to reason with emotionally unstable people.
@@lilpeko4328funny how so many of yall are quick to dickride hololive company but if it was any other agency yall have no problems criticizing them
@@lilpeko4328 it's just twitter. Every now and then we need a PSA not to interact someone with blue checkmark. No matter how ridiculous they sound 99.9% of the time they know they're wrong, they just wanna farm engagements.
Remember:
blue checkmark = do not interact
no checkmark = They're dumb fr. Feel free to correct them.
@@izmu Sadly its not just Twitter that you'll see those. Saddest part is they're legitimately former fans and are making up scenarios to the extreme.
Criticism is important especially if we want a better working environment for the talents, but recently people are emotionally angry and are out for blood to witch hunt any talents within the company.
Yeah, some people just love stirring the pot, even when the 'how this works' is pretty obvious. Guess it's more fun to complain than to actually understand, huh?
Same as HoLo ID,rarely do cover indonesian song.
Music copyright is always a pain to deal with when money is changing hands. I still don't quite understand how karaoke streams are OK as long as they're not archived (but often SCs remain enabled), but I'm glad that it's an option.
I think what a lot of us would like to see is more original music to be in English, but that puts much more of it on the talents than the way a lot of it is done now. Essentially the lyrics would have to be written by the talent, or they need to individually seek out and commission a western producer who's willing to write lyrics as well, then jump through the 3rd party international corporation hoops that delay things quite a bit. Mori and Nerissa do that for example, but it's a LOT more work for a talent and their manager than if Cover handles all of it internally, and their established pool of producers don't have many English speakers. Plenty of talents aren't that involved, interested or invested in the music creation process. That's OK, I'm not speaking negatively on those who don't, they're just more interested in the performance side of things.
> I still don't quite understand how karaoke streams are OK as long as they're not archived
as far as I'm aware, they're not. it's just that making them unarchived means they have the best change of being deleted before getting flagged/penalized by content ID.
@@ChamiCh Yeah this is the sort of thing Ina means by it being "grey zone" content. Where they could be hit by legal stuff over it, but that's only if they get hit by someone with the legal recourse to do so who is even aware that they're doing it, and even then probably would be something that got settled in a civil court case rather than a criminal one?
Similar to someone selling fan art at a convention/online commissions that similarly are not shops you can easily just track down all the time.
This is, in fact, very interesting!
Personally, it shouldn't matter whether members can sing English songs in their anniv streams or birthday streams because in the end they still sing, and every cover from them is beautiful anyways
Also the "English members HAVE to sing English songs" claim is honestly funny. Like how does singing in JP make them "less EN"?
yeah it's still kind if irks me that people complaining about that, even in Ina last 3d concert i still see some comment 'again with the live only with japanese song and not a single english song despite being an EN member'.
Wondering do they not realize why they always do an unarchived stream when usually singing an english song i wonder.
People like hololive cuz they cater more to the weeb audience so it makes sense they would sing more JP songs, but i have seen even Japanese fans make fun of the en girls being too JP focused. it's a common meme among jp fans to say debuff language whenever an en sings in or speaks japanese.
English mems can also sing their own english songs, there's no shortage of "in house" bangers imo, no?
"How does making them sing in JP make them less EN?" Okay so, having to learn JP in the first place is already making them bilingual, and many cases have popped up where people are slowly forgetting their native language. Just look at Kiara, Cecilia and Baelz for that, in just hololive. It's much harder for them, but it's still less hard than the west music industry!
I mean music is universal languages, you can still know a bangers even though you don't know the meaning of it, even in us people singing about ass and still call it bangers 😂
I see a clip that bbno$ get money with Garfield movie is like 300,000 dollars...
So copyright it is expensive af
And it have many tier
Tier 1 for just be allow to sings in public with monetization
Tier 2 for use as music video
Tier 3 for Live/Records performance
With this sacred Ina I summon...
An adaptable workplace
Great insight. Even in hololive. It works like an ecosystem within the industry. Company, staff, Artist & Creator to fans create a great cycle of economy.
the copyright with english songs it's crazy in some cases, i follow AEW for example where they wanted "the final countodown" for one of their talent but it was way too much expensive, in the end they used but only in some occasion
while listening to this, my mind imagine ina as staff san, becoming someone like a-chan or nodoka with office suits, and somehow it fits -w-')
Some fans need to understand that some things are far easier said than done, nothing in the entertainment industry (as far as I know of) can be done straightforwardly. One would also have to keep in mind of how snobbish and “hostile” the big music industry is toward other businesses, especially those they deem as competitors. So it would be easy to imagine how the music industry would act toward Hololive and Hololive’s talents wanting to do a cover song of a music the copyright holder own the copyright to, which would either be them prohibiting Hololive from doing so or making the cost to cover the song to be very expensive.
(And honestly speaking, the people who like to demand, are most likely the very people who have never provided anyway.)
I get not being able to use the actual song (the official recording) without having to pay for the rights, but paying in order to perform a cover makes absolutely no sense to me, I'm 35, back in the day bands didn't even have to ask for permission they could cover whatever they wanted as long as they didn't claim it was their original song...
04:58 except crunchyroll
I understant whafor allt Ina says but also I think that maybe something related to music is possible, like doing personal translations of anime songs (or corporate ones, that can be used from anyone in Holo pro). Also, as a Spanish speaker, I wish that someone in Holo can sing archived songs in my language but it have some other difficulties like the fragmentation in the legislation of copyright things but that also offers more easy access to songs registered under some specific countries
People need to see this and understand the reasons for things and stop trying to spark bs drama just for ridiculous reasons.
Everytime she laughs, I died from cuteness.
Heck this actually the 2nd member address this copyright stuff.
If those who moan this can't understand it, then definitely is their skill issue.
Or they should search things up. It ain't that hard
@tropicalAzure well I afraid 90% of ppl moaning this definitely won't do the searching lol
@@tropicalAzure yeah but if they look it up then they won't have anything to complain about lol
@@tropicalAzureif you've seen how many people responded to nerissa comforting a fan worrying about being a "fake fan" on twitter you'd know how many people are proud to state that not only do they not watch streams, or vods, or seek out clips, sometimes they only rely on what their twitter for you page shows them, lol. I have absolutely no faith in the complainers suddenly gaining common sense to seek answers to their concerns before tweeting up a storm of their complaints
The cost for English song copyright is horrible...
It makes no sense to build a 3d studio in NA or buy centralized housing for them. At its peak before the doggos and Biboo moved to Japan, there were 11 Holoen members in NA. Before Advent there were only 6, and before Council there were only 3. Now that Justice is here with Biboo and the Doggos moving to Japan and Ame and Fauna graduating, there are currently only 7 members left in NA, 3 in EU, and the rest are in Japan. The costs of a studio are already massive and considering there are only 7 members that could reasonably take advantage that would have to travel to the location where it would be built to begin with, they may as well travel to Japan. Centralized housing for the talents would just be a terrible idea because what better situation for a stalker?
It's still good for future project if they want do something outside Japan... And ofc for new EN member
@@yogayuliandana8958If they're already going to fly/travel to a studio, they might as well fly/do it at the actual Cover studio in Japan. Building a smaller, less-specced studio outside of Japan doesn't make sense from a cost-standpoint.
@Random-Stranger bruh you don't know how busy the schedule for 1 studio only
Well for a 3d studio they can use it for practice if they want a 3d concert outside of japan. Rather that hired/contract studio for someone which worst if they become YAB or they have trust issue especially doxxing there talents.
@@yogayuliandana8958 They've already run the cost-benefit analysis. Just like Ina said, it's not simply just building a new studio, it's also hiring people to run said studio as well as necessary security. The price for the studio alone is already exorbitant and cutting costs for lower spec tech isn't worth it given what they intend to use it for. The talents will already have to travel to get to it and as I've stated there are currently only 7 talents in NA to begin with so to do all that for just 7 people is a massive expense. Remember, Cover had to go public in order to continue operating.
Oshi at the end i love you
I think one thing to keep in mind as we grouse (justifiably) about how lame IP rights are and how greedy record companies are, Cover in some sense operates very similarly to them. The talents aren't employees, they are contractors. They don't own their model (with some Gen 0 exceptions), their likeness or their body of work. If talents want to produce events and songs they are expected to pay out of pocket possibly with an "advance" from the company, again kind of similar to a record deal.
I guess the big thing that separates them is a graduated idol isn't monetizeable in perpetuity in the same way a music album is, but if that changes over time and VOD catalogues become assets I would expect to see the behavior surrounding their ownership and management get more aggressive.
it all comes down to legality
English songs are absurdly expensive to cover
Another reason why a studio in the US doesn't make sense besides the fact that even those who live there would have to travel anyway, now most HoloEN girls live outside of the US, and in Holostars EN I think it's about half.
For artists, personally customized work space is a serious business.
This just gave me an unpleasant reminder that there Is someone who literally had to spend her OWN money just to make a music video for her fans just to be taken It out by NejiEN 24 hours later
4:21 - Sure, it's easier. No corporate on your side to tell you "no." Right up until the copyright holder corporate decides you are a big enough target to go after. Or just decide to make an example of you. Should be obvious, but sometimes people seem to think copyright laws only apply to big companies.
It's crazy that a song license would cost that much though. Though I suppose it's fairly common knowledge that American music labels are greedy and exploitative in the extreme.
Working with someone and living with them are two VERY different things. Not saying this would actually happen but i genuinely think IF they had like a holo dormitory i can see talent being at each others throats by week 4. Yeah some would probably thrive but it just takes one or two that arent as friendly to create a hostile environment then clicks emerge and boom you have high school all over again.
Someone on Twitter was complaining Hololive EN sings no English songs in the 3D concerts and no one wants to listen to JP songs.
you lost us at "Someone on Twitter"
their life's calling is to never be satisfied, after all
There will always be someone on Twitter complaining
Maybe they just haven’t heard how epic a 3D concert can be when you’re vibing with the song, language barrier or not! Who needs English songs when the music and vibe is on fire?😆
I saw a clip of Mumei singing Fukurou and watched it so much that it convinced me to watch Broken Promise. What is that guy on about?
I mean... There is no problem for wanting Hololive EN to sing EN songs, right?
as a guy that has built my own most comfortable setup in my medium room, no matter the upgrade or sheer improvement of a pc that is lent to you, nothing feels like home
its not just the fps its also the environment youre in
This is part of the reason why Vshojo even exists at all. Those girls and gunrun knew that vtubers were essentially getting too big to be comfortable within that greyzone, this is also why a ton of streamers and youtubers are in agencies because you're gonna want and need a lawyer eventually and so that you dont pay out of pocket if suddenly one day a company sues you for one reason or another. But like with everything, maybe it shouldnt be like this, copyright needs an overhaul, but they're doing what they can to make what they want without getting themselves or cover in trouble.
Honestly, we saw that with the Fillian model issue. What a mess that turned out to be.
That makes me curious now, is copyright the reason most karaoke streams are unarchived?
Pretty much
You understand it
Yes. Obviously it is. Every single piece of content that anyone makes is by default copyrighted. And if you're using something that someone else made for which the copyright hasn't expired yet (70 years after the author dies in most cases from what I've understood) you need the permissions or the platform (like RUclips) will for their own legal safety take down things which don't have their permissions in order if reported or spotted by automation.
That is why vtubers and fans always talk about the permissions whenever someone asks if they can or can't sing a particular song. Depending on the song and the backing track the permissions required for the composition, the backing track's performance's audio, the lyrics, translated lyrics, etc. can all be thing the talent and company need to acquire separately. For distributing a song as audio only you'd need a mechanical license. For including it into a piece of other content like a karaoke stream or a video you need a sync license which is a lot more expensive usually. If you want to archive it as a VOD then that becomes even more expensive and you'll likely need to pay royalties per view. Buying the rights to do a music video for a cover song is often so damn expensive (as Reine and other talents have told us) that it simply isn't worth the money and the effort.
So as Kiara and others have explained in practice Hololive talents have songs for karaoke go into three different buckets: 1) safe to sing and to leave in a VOD 2) safe to sing but no VOD 3) not safe to sing at all not even unarchived.
If it's just JP songs they can for most of them easily get the permissions from JASRAC which is why they can archive those karaoke streams. For EN songs they can't be archived because it's harder and not worth it to get that level of permissions. And some EN songs and basically almost all German songs that Kiara would've wanted to sing that in the past at least was completely a no-go.
Back in the day (a few years ago) ID and EN talents used to sing a lot of English songs unarchived. The ID branch got into trouble first with the backing tracks getting caught in RUclips's content ID systems so they started getting them all from a karaoke backing track service that had all the permissions done correctly so the talents wouldn't need to worry about RUclips's automated systems striking down their streams while they were singing. But as the EN branch didn't have as strict management the talents were picking up random backing tracks wherever they could find them and which then weren't safe to use with RUclips's automated copyright related systems. In the end EN also switched to doing what ID had been doing which allowed them to do their EN karaoke streams without such issues.
Anyway that's a summary of what I consider the most important bits and the history behind them... there's been lots of discussions about this stuff on the fan forums throughout the years.
I can answer only based on US law. The works created by composers, performers, producers, audio editors, etc. are protected by US copyright law. Under copyright law, the owner of the copyright has exclusive rights to copy, publicly perform, modify and distribute a copyrighted work. The owners of copyrighted work monetize their works by granting rights for others to use the works for a fee. The unauthorized copying of a work would deprive the copyright owner of a just payment for the owner’s work. The unauthorized copying also constitutes copyright infringement, in which an owner can sue the infringer for damages. US law give sites such as RUclips, Twitch, etc. a limited immunity if they immediately take down an infringing work. If they do not, these platforms could be subject to an infringement action.
Holodorm is a security nightmare.
I wouldn't recommend it and I can see Cover never pushed this through.
As hololive one of those that prioritize talents' privacy and identity management having a dorm announced publicly is dangerous.
a "loading GIF" is called a throbber
have fun with this knowledge
Fans are the worst part of any medium
Thank you for the clip and information. It makes a lot of sense. Indies get away with a lot simply because they are smaller that massive corpos like COVER cannot. These issues unfournately aren't an easy one that COVER can solve and reality forces things to be the way they are. It really is more economical to do things in Japan. On top of higher rent, you also have to consider employee salaries. I'm sure the cost of hiring someone in say LA or NYC is insanely expensive compared to elsewhere.
Somehow, a LOT of these EN song issues can be blamed on Lars Ulrich, drummer of the band Mettalica. I'd suggest looking into his role in allowing the DMCA itself to form.
Yah western music rights heck western copyright laws are a shitshow
Easy to complain hard to accomplish.
We’re merely witnessing the success of Holo, at the moment. And still they’re a startup that needs lot to be done to grow and flow.
On the Otherside, They also earn money if radio stations or other people use their Holomem Original Songs BUT as Moona and others said, the proccess of creating Original Songs are Insanely Expensive.
I think it's pretty obvious there's a lot of procedures and restrictions, fans that try to stir up something and leash out directly at talents and in streams are... something else... Don't they stop to think? That said it's nice that both Ina and IRyS are being upfront about it, not like it's a corporation secret or anything anyway.
Also there's a lot of different kind of content, right? Like the Unarchived Karaokes and all, so they probably all follow different rules.
I hate the western music industry with a passion. Their copyright claims are some of the worst in any industry, and they go after whoever, no matter what to protect their own IP. Hell, they even go after big name artists who helped made them successful. Just get a look at the history of Michael Jackson and Sony and how messed up that turned out, with "messed up" being kind words from me
People think every en member were in US
Good clip. Very informative.
When fans think they are so smart when they actually not.
This kind of comment
I bet people are going to watch this and still complain about it 😮💨
Some people just refuse to understand, or they only want to rile others.
In the US, it's very easy and fairly cheap to record and sell a cover of a song, you just need a "mechanical license" which covers the tune and lyrics. By law, companies can't refuse to sell you this license and there's a cap on the maximum cost per copy sold. Big music streaming platforms like Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, and RUclips Music are covered under a blanket license where they're responsible for tracking and paying per-stream fees. The uploader just has to tag the song correctly when uploading, no extra licenses needed. (You can also sell CDs and digital downloads under a mechanical license, but then you're responsible for acquiring the license and making payments)
If you want to synchronize it with ANY sort of video (music video, concert livestream), you need a "sync license", which does not have a blanket legal framework. Those have to be negotiated with the rights-holders on a case-by-case basis, and they can charge a lot or flat-out refuse. Translated lyrics count as a derivative work, not part of the original, so they're covered by yet another different license.
If I'm understanding everything correctly, this would explain how Elizabeth was able to make her Blackbird cover. It's on streaming services, including RUclips Music, which would be covered by the compulsory mechanical license, but there's no music video or livestream performance, so no sync license required. Of course, since Cover is not a US company, I wouldn't be surprised if there are extra hoops they have to jump through for the mechanical license stuff.
The hoops are 10x worse for vtubers because they are technically not a real person under the law, they are character. If say moist critical wanted to do a cover of a Taylor swift song he can get a licence to do it but can't monetize it or sell goods related to it without spending alot of money to Taylor swift,
But because of the status of a vtuber under the law they aren't technically allowed to do it, that's why other than maybe Ado and ERB you never see western songs covers by vtubers.
@@YouAreSleepyToo: I find that idea dubious, since bands would run afoul of the same thing.
@YouAreSleepyToo A company is a person under law. They can get the rights. It doesn't matter what they're fronting from a law sense.
Now, the copyright holder might not want to have their works related to anime girls, and refuse to license it, but that's their personal opinions, not law.
You guys should complain directly to cover via email instead commenting here 😂
So many people "know" how to run company better than cover/holo in these comments lmao
Good clip puttint to bed some common fan gripes
- Studio expensive
- English copyright is a hellscape compared to JP
Western music industry as it currently stands is so depressing to think about, lol. I remember moom wishing they can do karaoke of any song even if it's unmonetized and it sounded like a good idea until I remembered youtube AI can still strike you down midstream with monetization off 😂😭 just a sad sad state of affairs, man.
The security issues of a non-JP living in JP for a prolonged period of time cannot be understated: just look at that happened to that famous holo-adjacent Austrian cosplayer and bare in mind that, unless you're a JP citizen, a lot of legal remedies you take granted for simply just aren't available to you. Not to mention the potential for administrative... mishaps that Ina would be all too familiar with.
"famous holo-adjacent Austrian cosplayer" - She's not Voldermort, you can say her name.
Its just a clip you can say her name its okay unless its on official places then you will be seen as a nuisance
@@karehaqt or you could get a job.
English song copyrights are a huge mess in itself, unless the artist managed to get a contract that does not sell themselves to the record company and keep at least some rights to their own songs. Doujins are a grey area, they are allowed up to a point. Comiket is still around every year, but JP companies tend to ignore copyrights for doujins because it is practically free promotions. Tho one reason Vocaloid/Utaite managed to stand up other than being indie, was that they make their own songs or they sing songs made by others, easier to discuss rights with fellow artists compared to corporates. Except bad apple i guess.
English song copyrights are tricky, especially when artists don't retain rights after signing with record labels. Doujins are a grey area allowed up to a point, since JP companies often overlook them for free promotion. Vocaloid/Utaite thrive because they create or cover their own songs, making rights easier to manage. But yeah, 'Bad Apple' is a rare case.
During ina live I saw a superchat complaining about that there’s no English songs in hole EN lives. Well rude chatter that’s your answer
Tldr:
Think of it as Factorio the game.
Its easy until you forget which part does what, and fixing that is gonna be one giant headache after another.
Now add in Copyright claims where the company is solely at the mercy of the copyright claimers and they only get 15 strikes and they are OUT!
All that hard worked GONE.
Who the heck wants an english trendy song in a goddamn anime-fans focused events?
Right, the newer fans that doesn't appreciate Jpop as much as necessary to enjoy 3D lives as is without complaining about the "lack of EN in English". Please, to whoever finds or sees people complaining about this. Refer them to this video, pronto.
The fact that this has to be said is stupid
i would rather travel to japan, wanna see polite deer
I dunno I saw a deer headbutt a guy in the gut over there so aggressively he had to German Suplex it
i've been to nara, the deer may seem polite but they're actually kinda assholes lol
if they think you have food on you, they will hound you to no end.
this is what im saying that outsiders including the fans dont understand sht. they are dumbasses if they ran their mouths like they know stuffs.
high property prices in North America are the cause of a lot of our problems
The copyright she talked about is for archived live right? I wonder about unarchived karaoke broadcast. Since they can sang a lot of english songs there I guess it's much cheaper?
3D live concert, that's the problem is
Yes, the copyright issues are often tied to archived streams, but unarchiver karaoke can still be tricky. While it's true some platforms may have more lenient rules for live broadcasts, copyright holders still have the right to take action if they're not happy with the use of their music. It’s cheaper in some ways, but still not risk-free
Yea JP copyright laws are no different from US law, the difference is that Japanese actually follow the law strictly. Copyright law even in the US states that all IP rights belong to the people who create and/or own them.
Stuff like streaming, modding, to stuff like selling fan art are actually infringing laws, because we don't have the distribution rights, we are supposed to actually contact rights owners to get permission which would normally involve signing contracts and/or paying, but people except lawful Japanese, just assume we don't have to and just do whatever we want with IP.
Ina's background as a professional illustrator (who probably has spent some time in the fanart scene as well) really shines through here and it really feels like something people need to hear. Its not that Cover is just wanting to place a bunch of restrictions on what their streamers can play, etc. (as shown by the wild games that they've let members play recently) so much as it being something they take on the liability for as a company and therefore need to make sure they do things properly in order to not have it cause problems for not just the one streamer but the rest of their staff and other streamers.
Especially because millions of eyes are potentially on any Hololive Member at any time and it only takes one set of those eyes to be someone who can make a copyright strike to ruin a member's channel (which almost happened a few times early on, before Cover got a lot more strict with permissions). Indies can just choose to run the risks of existing in that grey area (and pray the "gods" don't smite them down), particularly if they aren't heavily monetized, or put in a ton of work themselves to do it by the book but either way its a burden that being in a company like Hololive offloads onto the support staff in exchange for the members just having to accept when they can't always have what they want immediately (though Calli did eventually get to play a version of Persona 3 on stream as an example of things eventually working out due to Hololive being seen as a good way to market the new remake of the game).
As far as I know, 3D studio owner in hololive are just Altare & Amelia i think....
And i don't think it is on a same lvl holomem use for their 3D concert.
See, I don't get that with the subtitles. Why are the subtitles their own copyright and permission?
Because the translation has to be with the artist permission too.
To put it simply the translation could be not in the line with the artist's intention, and they could be sued for that for misinterpreting.
Ina is right. As long as in the gray zone, it will probably be fine. Unless it is a sensitive IPs like Nintendo's.
I hate what the vtuber community has become, we used to enjoy the streams and not care about whats being done behind the scenes. Nowadays its always a stream where kids spam questions about management and expenses. Let it go, y'all arent the BBB, if something becomes unfair they will know how to handle it, they are way smarter and older.
The problem in the Vtuber community right now is some people/viewers/fans become so special. Think they own or have authority of that vtuber or streamer. They think there are loyal and good fans aka enlightenment.😅😅
Those who are spamming:
"Being indie is so easy and big money"
"The Corps era is over and the indies rise"
"Being indie don't have restrictions they can do whatever they want"
Lol, it really funny when I see those . Sometimes I'm thinking, like do they really watch indie vtubers or they know indie vtuber because someone hype or trend them.😅😅
That hasn't been the case for a long while: delving behind the scenes in vtubing is a topic that's been around for as long as vtubers exist, and a lot of vtubers including in companies like Hololive do actually offer insight into said backroom happenings often. As the fandom grows though, obviously the number of people interested in the behind the scenes also grows in proportion.
@@StrikeNoir105E been through almost all of the graduations and terminations hololive has had and believe me these new fans are the most weird ones the community has gotten so far...
This is because Vtubing already become mainstream more new eyes to the scene, for people who follow the vtuber culture they should understand. But for new people they would be confused about many things because they only see it as streamer and they can't understand why indie different with corpo vtuber. What I hate about this people when we explained it to them they wouldn't accept it because what they think is what should be the correct one. At that point just ignore them.
HoloHouse on a fixed location? 'insert a Friend meme' "yabe"
Fans 'the weird ones' would stalk the place All the time.
what about that one song in the Promise musical that said Translated by Nerissa Ravencroft? What was the deal with that?
Nerissa most likely got the perm to translate the song during her pre-debut. So that translation is already approved by the composer of the song.
I believe it is easier to get the perm from composer who is not represented by big music label yet. Like you can't easily translate YOASOBI song for example.
@@yamiRicAlso it's easier if the producer in question is Japanese and is affiliated with JASRAC. Much harder if they are affiliated with heavyweights like BMI or ASCAP.
Even when animes get official dubs the songs are still in Japanese cause that's what the artist wants but you would think for a EN branch holo would find some EN songs that they could sing. Granted not everyone has there own songs to sing but still it's a EN branch and having them sing in Japanese kinda defeats the purpose of having a EN branch. Even biboo couldn't give her original song a english title and had to have Japanese lyrics.
@@lexmarks567 and its up to the talents themselves? A lot of them sings en songs in unarchived streams. It doesn’t defeat the purpose of being an EN branch just because they sang some japanese songs for their 3d live which they got permission easily compared to en songs permission.They stream in English, play games in english, chat in english and talk about relatable things with the western side.And the producer for biboo’s song is a japanese track maker. It could be just simple as biboo wanting to make a japanese song. A lot of hololive members have songs in english: calli &kiara.
thats the reason why some graduated its not because they hate the company
its just they understand the bigger the company the higher the risk and harder to do things on their own
Depends on how you see it. Alot of indies, they got more freedom but way less protection. Like if their channel gets taken down for some reason, no one can help them
Going indie as a VTuber does offer incredible creative freedom. However, it can come with challenges like handling all aspects of the business side and dealing with potential risks without the safety net of a company or agency. If you're comfortable with that and have the resources or support to handle it, going indie can be very rewarding.
I think you're grossly misunderstanding the meaning of "risk" here. Those without company backing or significant clout are playing more high risk.
Copyright can possibly be enforced on any derivative work (streaming games, song covers). Some indies only get away coz 1) they're too small to be noticed, 2) not worth as much money to sue or 3) there's simply too many of them to enforce on. They're playing on a Spartacus situation here.
As someone who also follows the indie scene, the amount of scandals, scams, dramas, beef, and legal shitshows that indie vtubers get into are a LOT, and oftentimes are the kind of issues that being under proper management or an affiliation with a company would've solved (easy example, Bao getting scammed multiple times by her merchandising partners). For every Dokibird or Filian that exists, there are several hundreds more indie vtubers that don't make the cut, fold under the pressure, or are forever stagnating in obscurity, because as it turns out being an indie has its own set of challenges that aspirants need to tackle by themselves.
Corpo vtubing may not be for everyone sure, but the reverse is also true: indie vtubing is not for everyone, and oftentimes once an indie vtuber graduates that's the end of their road.
It makes me wonder how Dooby or Filian manage to afford it. Dooby might have earned some stuff from her previous job(s) maybe, but it makes me wonder what Filian's background is. She not only has a 3d studio, she breaks headset like you can find them at Walmart for $20
Dooby's 3D studio is impressive, but she herself has mentioned the cost of her equipment, and given we know the costs of Cover Corp's own equipment, all of the cameras in Dooby's studio is outpriced by a single one of the studio cameras that Cover's studio has, and the latter has around several hundred of those cameras in use. Dooby has an impressive studio as a solo indie sure, but it's clear she got a lot of the funds for it from her previous career, and it's still mostly an average small studio and not the kind of massive studio an operation like Cover Corp. needs.
Filian's studio uses IR tracking instead of 3D cameras, she has spent a small fortune on that equipment and has mentioned the type of equipment she buys especially when she went over how much she has spent because of accidentally breaking stuff. (mind you with the new VR headsets were you can switch between looking at the environment versus looking at VR chat) that should be markedly reduced for her.
cover studio operate in entirely different scale from fillian and dooby,
@@raisofahri5797 Yeah, it makes sense that a major idol company can afford one.. Not as much as two indies. But apparently Dooby had a lot stashed money, and Fillian's set up is different, expensive but cheaper
You can check cover studio spec, iirc they are using the newest camera for motion tracking (using that dot on body) named valkyrie which cost 50k usd each and they have dozens for each studio. Also cover should improve their 3d software more, try watch kiara stream/clip when she collab with korean vtuber their 3d home app is way better than holo
Why do the Holo *EN* girls almost never sing any English songs outside of originals?
The simple truth: *MONEY*
It's not just being in a company. It's being in a Japanese company. It's harder to do English covers because they are a Japanese company and have to deal with Japanese copyright laws.
You didn't understand anything, they could be a Canadian company and they would have the same problem.