But also very straightforward competition. Xingqiu and Yelan have damage and off-field application with normal attacks, Kokomi and Barbara have healing. Anything else, especially some new mechanic (like with other archons) is fair game.
before watching: Archons should always do SOMETHING that they _are the best at._ Doesn't necessarily mean they should be the best at everything within that particular element
Agreed. It's kind of like Raiden vs Fischl. Raiden is overall the more versatile of the two, being able to be bother a sub dps and your on-field carry. But Fischl still has her A4 passive which provides even more off field damage whenever you cause an electro elemental reactions. So when it comes to teams like Aggravate & Electro Charge, you're likely going to pick Fischl as your second electro unit because of how much she excels in that role. If Raiden wereable to naturally do that passive in addition to the rest of her kit, that would be insane....which is exactly what they did with Nahida and Dendro. lol
Looking at the Hydro characters we have, it shouldn't be that difficult to find something the Archon could be the best at either. The best Hydro shielder is Xingqiu, who isn't even a shielder. The best Hydro crowd control is Mona's burst (or freeze, if you wanna count reactions). Almost all Hydro characters are damage, Hydro application, healing, or a combination of those, we don't have much variety
Archon's should be the conceptually strongest representation. But they should logically have better utility or practical usability to help their own playability.
@chemioj2317 Honestly, the rhyme sense wasn't even intentional. I just made this comment in between watching Gundam: Witch From Mercury, and I guess my brain auto shifted the terminology I typically use in chat to formal instead of meme shitposting.
Not the elements, but rather the elements' main mechanic. Anemo's crowd control and mobility, Geo's survivability, Electro's energy regeneration, Dendro's heavy reactivity, Hydro's versatility, Pyro's offense and Cryo's consistency.
There's also the status effects that could be taken into account, cryo is the most annoying but noticeable one that I think increases stamina consumption and slows you down. Not sure what the rest do apart from making you or the enemies susceptible to reactions.
I personally feel that Archons should be a step above other 5 stars and it seems Mihoyo does treat them differently from other characters they come around once a year and it's something to really look forward to. I also feel the same way about Harbingers but that may not be the case in Mihoyo's eyes.
I agree, Archons should always be placed above 5 stars, i do think they should be the strongest of their elements as well, matter infact they should be in their own tiers as 6 stars, just my thoughts though
Not necessarily. In HI3, the Herrschers are the most powerful being in lore but as playable they have the same rank from others. There are also some playable Herrschers who got powercreep.
They don't have to be the STRONGEST but they must be the peak of what their element is. Venti is the bigest suck in the game and also allows you to fly (tho that got powercrept by Scaramuche), Zhongli is the ultimate shield that far surpasses anything else, Raiden generates the most energy and her chackra desidorata intracts with the energy usage of other party members like nothing else, Nahida is the best at creating reactions and even has the unique ablility to boost the reaction damage of others. I have no idea how they are going to do this for the next 3 but they must stand out. The themes remaining are HP for hydro, Brute force big damage for pyro and Crit and/or freezing for cryo. I'm ganna be honest. I would much prefer character like Hu Tao falling out of the top tier rether than an incredibly plot relevant and hype character ending up strictly worse than someone from 1.x
Hu Tao is just a dps. More likely, Murata will powercreep Xiangling's AoE pyro application and/or Bennett's support capabilities. Or all three of them will be powercrept by her. Or, since 5.0 is over a year from now, she might be like Nilou and add a totally new reaction that is unique to her.
@@Jaz-tk5vx Idk, i can't not picture vermilion knight: eclipse Himeko when i think of Murata so i kinda just asumed for years that she is going to be thr better Diluc
There still is the untouched area in all elements of someone surpassing elemental gauge norms. The pyro archon could simply buff Hydro by applying enough pyro gauge (I think 4U is the highest atm) that reverse vaporize actually becomes a thing. It's actually what I wanted them to do with Dehya. Something like Nahida's mark that would trigger any time an elemental reaction was triggered on the marked opponent it would refresh the elemental pyro aura. Buffing the entire hydro roster and giving Yelan and Childe new team options where they are fully main dps. Could also do something like cause iron body or root (something like a "molten" state that would make it difficult to move enemies around) allowing for overload teams to work on regular mobs. You would just have to pull them together first cast the "molten" state and then go ham with overload reactions. Could also use the same mark to decrease shield strength or enhance the elemental gauge applied of all incoming elemental damage. There's plenty that they can do without powercreeping. They just need to be more creative than different colored or larger damage numbers.
Genuinely, considering the current roster of Pyro characters, and considering archons are best at something in their element, the pyro archon is going to be an absolute MENACE
cant wait to have himeko in genshin too not gonna lie, saying this because her name is already released and is clear they are going for the multiverse theme
[8:51] The *Hydro Archon* just needs to have most of her elemental application coming from *Skill* instead of *Burst* to be better than Yelan and Xingqiu, as that would make for a character that is easier to build (no ER required) and has higher damage floor/ceiling (more rolls available), even if her numbers turn out to not be that good. Same for the Pyro archon.
nilou has good elemental application from skill, yeah she won't do damage with that in non-nilou style teams, but if what you need is hydro application, she has it.
I think hydro archon needs to do two things- have a max HP increasing ascension passive (maybe 10-30% depending on how many stacks you have) and 2.5u hydro application on her burst. Easy fix
@@salt1360 Barbara's and Kokomi's off field hydro is one pulse every.. what, 2 sec? Gauge theory gives them an issue. Xingqiu and Yelan work well because they do MULTIPLE hydro hits at once. Hydro archon needs that, or she will fall behind.
@@jadecoolness101 no ,barbara can apply hydro from her ring whenever ur active character gets close to enemy , she heals every 3-4s but that isnt her hydro application.
The difference between focalors/furina compared to the other archons is how no matter what, as long as she deals off field hydro dmg at a fast pace, she'll be good. "What's better than one xingqiu? TWO xingqius! You know what's better than two xingqius? THREE xingqius!!!!"
Something I think that could make the hydro archon unique in a way that other hydro units can't offer, is the ability to reduce cooldowns for everyone in the party. The hydro element already has a bit of a connection with cooldown (eg, the monstadt weapon domain) so it wouldn't be an too far fetched. She also would be able to provide a unique role that wouldn't pit her against someone like Yelan
That would limit the teams she can be, maybe that could be cool on some teams, but would make improper CD rotation on others, making her useless. Besides they would make characters in the future with limitations to don't get benefit from Focalors. For example, Yelan have in her talent a dmg buff limitation made for Raiden C6. They changed in beta how her talent works, at first, she was keeping the buff while her burst is active, so a Raiden C6 who can reduce CD from burst 5 seconds would let Yelan buff infinite, they changed the talent and reseted the buff when she recast her burst. That was anti Raiden C6 change. Imagine in the future making that in elemental skills.
@@isdrakon9802To my understanding, the whole reason that we don't have powerful vape carries on the hydro side has more to do with the way that amplifying reactions interact with the amount of aura element on the target enemy than it has to do with the source of the reaction Forward vaporize removes significantly more pyro aura from an enemy than reverse vaporize removes hydro aura from an enemy... so it's not so much that we don't have hydro characters who can deliver strong attacks to amplify via forward vape. It's that we don't have pyro supports whose off-field pyro application can keep up with the amount of pyro aura removed via repeated forward vaporize reactions So... if you want forward vape to become a viable team, pray for characters with consistent and high-unit off-field pyro application. Like... basically pray for pyro Xingqiu
I think it is gonna be the cryo archon skill, since it is hoyo game, we are gonna get Bronya at some point, and my guess the cryo archon is another Bronya.
Really upsetting they didn’t mention Kokomi in this. She’s amazing in both her healing and her off field hydro application. She doesn’t apply hydro to your characters like barbara either, which was a real problem in Barbara’s playstyle, so she’s great for a ton of reactions.
@@kamveng453 yaoyao literally exists and she eliminates those. As a main bloom driver, she is can be insane with xq/candace. Yaoyao has 50% dendro res and she heals your entire team on burst. That self dmg may have been a problem before but not anymore and we shouldnt ignore that. Thats literally the kuki situation.
I keep forgetting that Mona even exists. Back in the day she was in every vaporize team but now nobody even mentions her to the point where I completely forgot what her kit even is.
Interesting to see how this has aged with Furina out. Id argue that Furina qualifies as the strongest of her element by lifting up other units both in her element and outside of it.
Archon's need to have at least one aspect of their kit that makes them the strongest in their respective element. Like how Nahida will always have the best Dendro application out of all the Dendro characters. Someone like Alhaitham can have comparable levels of dendro application, but Nahida can accomplish that off field as well as on field, while Alhaitham can only do so from the latter.
Yeah, Alhaitham and Nahida’s case is truly a good one. Alhaitham does more onfield dmg and is basically Dendro Tartaglia when it comes to elemental application. But Nahida has part of that an much MUCH more. So they overlap on some areas but no enough to make the other useless
the problem of that guess, xingqiu is alrd had strongest hydro application off field, and childe alrd had strongest hydro application on field, how then?
For me, they need to be the core definition of their element. Crowd control, reactions, energy battery, and shields in each kit are the central focus. You'll likely have at least one Kazuha in every future element that has a unique spin on the kit and meta, but I think the archons are meant to showcase what the singular aspect of their element tends to focus on.
I really hope Furina gets the same treatment as Nahida not only in power lvl, but also in character lore and region interactions (like Nahida's mind reading ability for Sumeru NPC)
@@julesgarcia7406 Her kit does look really good for supporting. I just pulled C1 Wriothesley and I think there could be some good synergy between them. But i wouldn't necessarily say she is the best hydro. Very good, but idk if best yet
I’d say they should be the primary representation of their element’s core design philosophy. As a consequence of that it is to be expected that they should be strong in order to excel in that role. That doesn’t necessarily have to mean they have to be the strongest character of their entire element though, as there can be other play styles covered by other characters within the same element that they aren’t in direct contention with
Id like to see her buff hydro reactions. Especially transformative reactions. If she could bring freeze, shatter, and electrocharge comps into the mainstream for a while, I think that would create a unit that isnt broken or competing with XQ and Yelan while still being meta defining.
now if they really make that its honesty will be really good, imagine if her ultimate will make rain or something and also buff the hydro reaction dmg its definitely worth it bro
@@uatom With how boss heavy the abyss has been for the past few cycles, freeze loses a large chunk of its appeal, as you're missing out on both croud control and crit rate woth them being unfrozen. Based on usage rates, I would assume dendro comps followed by childe national is the most common.
@@Abicated dendro is just insanely op, any unit that can be used with dendro reactions instantly becomes useable. I’d prefer if they buffed other elements.
@@uatom Hey, man. You won't hear me disagreeing. I really want them to buff the bottom half of reactions for more viability. That means buffing crystallize, physical, freeze, shatter, overload, burgeon, burning, and electrocharged. If I'm being honest here, I'd also like to see a unit that works around unique melt mechanics. Not just throwing xiangling and Bennett on a team, but something fresh.
I'm a hydro main and I love how good all of them are in their own way. They all bring something unique to the table even candance and barbara with their lower usage. I don't expect the hydro archon to be the best hydro character because there will always be some place where another hydro will be better. I just hope the hydro archon continues that trend and furthers hydro's dominion as the best element imo
Barbara does have a team where she's generally the best for: a Nilou Bloom team. An on-demand heal on a team where you do take a ton of self-damage.. I believe Barbara also has a slightly longer burst animation so you can stay invulnerable for a little longer too as a side thing lol
I think Furina did a good job of showing how through unique utility, i.e. her dual Arkhe and water walking, you can keep the Archons feeling powerful without having to power creep all the other units of the element. Granted Furina is also very goddam strong with just how many things she can accomplish with having big buffing ability and super easy off-field dps.
Coming back to this after Neuvilette leaks, yeah Furina has very big shoes to step into. Even going the healer route with a HP not like Kokomi will be difficult (who also happens to have insane hydro application) 💀
An archon doesn't necessarily have to be the strongest but they have to be the one who represents their element well and for hints look at the resonance buffs. Venti with his crowd control fits the above criteria. Zhongli too. Geo represents shields so ofcourse he should have the best one. Raiden gets the best ER and consistent electro application. Nahida is the best EM and reaction buffer. So extrapolating that further for the future. Hydro archon should have something HP related but also maybe something to do with versatility and fluidity. She should work with any and all teams. The pyro archon should be the archon who is actually supposed to be a DPS. Make them the best at it. Also because all the previous archons were supports or support adjacent, a dedicated DPS archon would not break the game too much. The cryo archon is basically another option for a freeze team. So cryo application like raiden skill and maybe a nuke with a crit rate buff to the party after using it.
@@mak1x3I think they meant a DEDICATED DPS. Meaning there is no room for her to be off field to work, unlike Raiden Shogun who's a great support on top of being a great DPS. Kinda like Hu Tao
My prediction for Focalors kit is either or a combination of these: 1. HP-scaling 2. Skill cooldown reduction 3. Bubbles I'm looking forward to be proven wrong. I'll be surprised if I'm right. 🤣
My bet is on direct HP buffer. Meaning she just straight up increase team's max HP and buff their dominant stat (e.g Kazuha's EM, Yelan's HP, Albedo's DEF, Yoi's ATK, etc.). That way, she can be EXTREMELY versatile in any teams possible, combined with some CC features where Hydro is lacking would be nice too
People definitely expect her to be strong purely based on lore. I don't know what Hoyo has planned up their sleeves because we already have so many busted hydro characters.
@SaAd-oy8iw well raiden broke the balance alongside nahida. The thing is AT THE TIME of their release they didn't truly power creep anyone other then their respective traveler variants.
Furina is arguably way OP and also much more balanced. She's very risk/reward in how she works, and I think that's the smartest way they could've handled it.
Genshin seems to be using a similar methodology that honkai impact has used over the years with hershers and archons, in both games everytime a hersher or archon is realeased they have the best numbers but more importantly have the game change around them, meaning new mechanics, bosses and everything else. I think with the hydro archon they will introduce something that is synergistic with her kit while giving her very good numbers allowing for a new niche.
The game's combat system has a solid foundation imo and Hoyo has deliberately kept off any sudden changes to it (some might argue it was too slow). With that foundation in place I think with the upcoming archons they can explore more gameplay styles. Hydro can do something with HP. Pyro can do something like a DOT (Make burning viable or something). Cryo can bring shatter to limelight. (While they are it do something with crystalize please....).
They probably should be, but in the specific case of Focalors, they can tune her such that she's on par with the other options or slightly worse, but give her massive role consolidation. Like give her slightly less healing than Kokomi, slightly less damage than Xingqiu, etc, but be able to perform all those roles. Epic role consolidation could set her apart while not technically powercreeping everyone.
I love a good ol' jack of all trades. Especially given hydro's theme of flexibility, having the hydro archon serve multiple roles in a team EFFECTIVELY, would be great. "The power of water is its ability to take any shape" after all.
Yelan: Probably the best character in the game. Incredible damage and buffing as well as overworld exploration. Xingqiu: Probably the second best character. He makes up for his damage (which is still very good) with the best off-field application and utility. Childe: Although a bit hard to use he applies the most hydro and does it Aoe! He is not as flexible but international variant is “still” one of the best teams. Ayato: Although his ceiling is lower than Tartagles he is incredibly flexible and has so many synergies and potential with other supports. Kokomi: Aoe hydro application and healing makes her a staple in dendro teams. She even can be a good main dps and driver (Sukokomon, Light of KeqingMains). Mona: She lost her spot to Kokomi and her power to Dendro but she is still (in my opinion) the best hydro for freeze teams and still offers the most powerful debuff ever. Nilou: Her investment to power ratio is absolutely crazy and does not demand specific supports, just hydro dendro boom boom. At this point Focalors has to summon the whole ocean to the abyss if she wants to have a spot in our teams.
Call Yelan the "best character" is a bit of a stretch, to say the least. She's also very niche, there's only a handful of characters that work well with her Burst. Also, Xingqiu sucks, those who are still using him are seriously nerfing themselves. I saw a dude trying to use Yelan and Xingqiu in a Hyperbloom team with Nahida and Kuki in Abyss and my god, it was painful to watch. Honestly, if you don't got Hu Tao or Yomiya, Yelan ain't even worth it.
@@bobjones4469 xingqiu is one of the best characters, gives you good offfield application and damage, damage reduction(It is very strong with or without shield) and some healing. I have a C4 yelan and still I sometimes consider xingqiu for his defensive utility. You are trolling or may be just new to game and its mechanics.
@@nicopz4270 my opinion the “best” character doesn’t even exist. XQ is probably the most versatile in combat Yelan in combat and open world where XQ lacks While I think Kazuha wins over Yelan with Combat and overworld But put Kazuha in any team where he doesn’t swirl an element and or group enemies and his usability drops immensely Kokomi is great for survivability and support in general even overworld so you don’t have to tp to the statue or eat your heart out to survive but her power is lacking and even in healer senses some healers are “better” than her depending on investment ofc also Soo long story short There is no best character in my opinion
I was pulling for Lyney, but know I am waiting for Furina. If I win the 50/50 she will be my first archon and honestly I don't are how powerful she is. I just really like her design and knowing how popular Yelan is I will have many opportunities to pull for her
I don't expect the Hydro archon to powercreep any of the existing hydro units. But if she was designed to, she would need to follow these conditions: - having very fast off-field application (no icd) that doesn't rely on normal attacks to trigger - have HP damage scalings similar to Kokomi but without her crit rate limitations - apply at least 3 units of hydro - revive teammates easily without a 15 minute cooldown - be an HP buffer in their base kit
A lot of expectations for the hydro archon, hope mihoyo wont mess her up. Every hydro unit released has been very good, like seriously aside from barbara and candace every hydro unit right now are just top tier units.
I expect Hydro archon to be a combo of Xingqui and Kokomi with immense amount of Hydro Application and great Healing potential while still having considerable damage.
I'd like her to be like... an upgraded Kuki. Reliable healing on skill that follows you, with good elemental application (hydro archon would probably want a little more application than Kuki) and then a dps focused burst. Whether that burst is actually her doing damage, or buffing the team, or a little of both... Just something to Do Damage.
Hmm I have an idea for Furina, the hydro archon’s kit, playing with the idea of duality (life steal & healing) 1. (Normal/charged attacks) just sword dances 2. (Skill- buff through life steal) Skill creates a 15s water “shield” on active character, shooting water projectiles that deal small hydro dmg whenever character performs NA/CA (kinda like beidou’s burst) During this period, slowly drains all party members’ HP over time (until 20%HP max drain) while buffing all characters dmg based on the HP lost (buff ends when shield expires) 3. (Burst- buff through healing) for 15s, creates a field that slowly draws enemies towards the centre , where water orb/cage/bubbles will emerge, homing in & trapping enemies. This cage deals periodic hydro dmg while enemy is trapped inside until it destroyed on its own (after 5s) or through popping. Characters who pop them (through any hydro reactions) will be healed & gain a dmg increase based on amount healed (lasts until burst duration ends) 3. (Passive) after active character pops burst bubble, increases their max HP & grants an EM bonus based on their max HP (lasts until burst ends) -essentially, if you unleash burst and skill together, characters can get all multiple buffs mentioned above + won’t die cuz of simultaneous healing and HPdrain mechanics
Maybe the hydro archon could be a dps, a healer and/or an exploration character. Kokomi shows off that they could possibly make the new archon be amazing in water exploration. Just imagine if the skill allowed you to walk on water, has a long duration but a short cooldown like Raiden’s skill. If they wanted to implement healing factors for her, they could just make it like Barbara’s skill but the hydro application is in a bigger range and doesn’t affect the player when they’re healed. They could give her a hydro infusion for her attacks if they rather not have hydro application intervene with other reactions. The burst could be like a combination of Nilou’s and Barbara’s, that would definitely pack a punch with healing over time. It would make her unique and still manage to be overpowered if she scales with HP as that would most likely increase her numbers in both offence and healing. I can’t wait to see how they make her play style function as something powerful and special to her!
Crazy theory some people think that the hydro archon will have two forms. I think that would be a great way to make her super good. if one form was a good dps while the other was a really good short or healer. And this wouldn’t be like Childe it would be so that you Could switch at any time and stay as one form for as long as you want.
The funny thing is I went out of my way to find Venti a spot on a team, and find he does great in Hyper Bloom/Aggravate/Spread teams due to all the electro ticks he can do while sucking in the Bloom Cores. Probably the one niche he has over Kazuha since the more ticks of electro/dendro the better for those reactions.
You can also unironically make him swirl Hydro instead (hyperbloom situations), and this is even better than swirling electro imo. This let's you built more dmg on Venti by going for the crit build instead if the em since you might not even be creating enough blooms to need that much electro. It also helps in creating more seeds for the electro char to proc rather than him stealing procs. Another is that the Hydro characters usually like as much er as possible, so his energy refund passive helps them, while electro characters for hyperbloom don't really need their bursts.
I would say Venti still qualify to be the best anemo user for the main utility the element provides which is crowd control. Although they have an overlaps with their role, they are meant to work differently since Kazuha is more of a buffer.
I think a little power creep is ok, if they keep trying to prevent it we could end up with another Dehya situation, and I don't think anyone wants that to happen.
Kazuha literally powercrept Venti, Hu Tao powercrept Klee and Diluc, Dendro basically "soft" power creeping Anemo and Cryo. Powercreeping already exists since ever in Genshin, but miHoYo just won't do that too often as people will never pull for reruns in the future.
@@thebluescaptain How did Dendro powercreep two elements that are used in dendro teams? Did you forget Nahida and Dehya are part of the best Ganyu Melt team or that Aggravate teams exists and use Anemo units? Kazuha doesn't have Venti's suction range, which is what Venti does best, so... yeah. Kokomi also powercrept Tartaglia in healing, lol. Hu Tao sucks in Monopyro, so how can she have powercrept Klee?
@@axelvinicius3365 Easy to debunk that comment. 1. Dendro doesn't need Anemo to work and people lately just use double hydro double dendro for hyperbloom and no anemo for spread. 2. Venti's suction is basically useless already and there's virtually no suckable enemies and how spiral abyss enemies are always put way far apart. Kazuha boosts swirl like crazy and how his bursts has a lot of functionality. 3. Nobody really uses Cryo for meta purposes. It's all just for waifu loyalty. And you bring Dehya? Lol. One jump/freeze/knock and it's over. 4. Kokomi and Childe have ultimately different roles. Also, mono element is impractical so that argument is irrelevant.
@@thebluescaptain the dendro one is wrong, both are completely different playstyle and there are teams which uses dendro and anemo together in a team like keqing/yae aggreviate or that kokomi yae team etc
The idea of the hydro arrchon being a HP buffer might work : What if she adds a ton of HP to all party members, but she drains their HP with her burst to get a massive ATK buff, where a portion of the buff would be given to allies, kinda like the ER on Xiphos Moonlight. This would work considering the hydro resonance. And on top of all, it would'nt restrict her to a HP buffer.
@oeshik4542 I'm not sure how reliable the leaks are but it seems that her burst reduces the health of your party (like Kuki) but you gain a lot of buffs...again not sure how reliable the leak is but definitely different from the massive hydro healers and applicators we have now
I think they will always be the best at what they mainly do venti with crowd control zhongli with shielding raiden with energy and nahida with application
All the archons have brought quality of life (QoL) improvements to me: an old uncoordinated person playing with a touchscreen (iPad). Venti's whirlwind allowed me to be more imprecise in combat and also gave me occasional rest breaks. He also made world movement and catching crystalflies easier. I have to admit that Kazuha is even better for QoL. Zhongli is in nearly all of my teams. My inability to dodge resulted in me dying a lot before his arrival. Raiden allowed me to solo many more domains than I could before. Before Raiden I always needed friends to co-op with me to build my characters. Nahida allows me to spin in place instead of chasing enemies. Farming is also much nicer. The hydro archon doesn't have to be good in combat. I'm looking forward to seeing what QoL improvements she brings. The archons, I think, are designed for people who are unskilled at the game :)
She could be the best off field hydro applicator that doesn't rely on basic atracks. That way she could be insanely powerful, fill that playstyle and not step over Yelan in terms of supporting capabilities. I Still want to make an only hydro team though 😂
@@Elrog3I'm dying to see her in action. I've been farming artifacts for her since the launch of Fontaine and I just need one good sands or circlet and I'm all set
I do think Archons, at least in canon, should be the best at their element. I also like to think that they're just holding back their full power (like how Yae only uses 1/5 of her power when using her skill) since they can literally terraform Teyvat. Gameplay wise, I think not necessarily, and it doesn't ruin the immersion either.
The thing is, not everybody likes Yelan or xingqui's playstyle so even if she is a support, people may want her more than Yelan strictly off of playstyle alone. The fact that her status is archon level is enough reason for players to get her already.
Wow, this was exactly what I was just thinking of too! I don’t think archons should be the best, but have a utility good and “niche” enough that they won’t be powercrept into obscurity. Although some might say Venti got outclassed by Kazuha, Venti is still the strongest in his niche: crowd control. He still makes movable mobs feel like a joke and despite the changes in current abyss, I doubt that utility of his to ever “fall off” in the future. I expect the same from the hydro archon - I don’t think any other hydro character can surpass Xingqiu or Yelan’s global utility right now, but that doesn’t mean focalors can’t be equally powerful in her own niche and unlock meta teams in the future, just like every archon has in the past.
I mean it makes a lot of sense in a story telling perspective to be stronger. Gameplay wise, archons are quite hard to come by so it also makes sense that their kits are strong and has longevity in mind.
I think the thing that makes the archons strong is that they are practically always useful. They can all be slotted into most teams and do everything needed from their element. They might not be the best at everything but they CAN pheasably do everything their element demands of them and do 1 thing better than the rest. For the Hydro archon that would probably include healing, damage, hydro application and buffing, so I guess she’ll do all 4 and do 1 better than anyone else like the other archons (except the all-powerful Nahida).
Unfortunately Zhongli isn't extremely overpowered + L + Ratio + Gorou better + You don't pick a shielder based on shield strength, just what they offer WITH shielding + RIPBOZO + only necessary for mid characters or bad players
Light & Abbyss would be the elemental powers of those who resides in Celestia, and since Celestia is the final arc, there will be another characters who uses Light & Abbyss elements such as Dain. These beings are beyond the Archons, just like the Traveller.
I feel like Mihoyo baked in their own plot element as an out for archon’s being not being OP. Losing their gnosis suggests that a significant portion of their power is lost.
They could just make the hydro Archon do different Things than yelan or xq, like idk make her a buffer/healer anything or idk something new,so like that she might not be best hydro char but with xq's existence it just is hard to bassicly impossible
Raiden is fucking awesome. Been using her at C3 since she came out. I LOVE how she’s just like: “okay everyone lets spam your burst to fuel my nuke type burst”
Here's my BEST idea that I could think of so far. (Full kit idea below, I think it's a pretty exciting idea!) An On-Field FORWARD vape carry. Consider this: Childe and Ayato already fulfill the roll of on field carrys. And they do it quite well. BUT they are ENABLERS. Xingqiu and Yelan are S tier supports, who are ALSO enablers by nature. So instead of stepping on either of their toes, we consider what's missing - good hydro shielders, hydro resistance shred (I guess Xingqiu does that a bit), Strong AoE hydro application, which falls off in single target (like Beidou but Hydro)... But I think a dps where YOU can decide when you wanna apply the element is really engaging. Her Kit: Normals: Polearm user. Don't do much damage but are REALLY important. Have low or mediocre scaling. Skill: Strikes with her weapon in front of her, dealing damage in a VERY wide cone. Enemies on the outer/further area of that cone area are dealt WAY more damage than enemies close to her (in other words: the outer edge of her skill is the "sweet-spot"). Has a VERY low cooldown (I'm talking 2 to 4 seconds ish). Importantly, NO ICD! Burst: Does a single instance of damage (medium scaling - but could be low or high depending on balance) in a MASSIVE AoE (I'm talking Kazuha or Ganyu burst sizes) and creates a "water vortex" for x seconds. While water vortex is active: 1) she will KEEP PULLING IN any enemies that are in that aoe range towards her. 2) Her NORMAL attacks will PUSH the enemies away from her (so that they are in the skill sweet-spot range). 3) Her skill will gain bonus damage. Now - notice that she's ONLY applying hydro with her Skill and just once with her burst at the start. But her skill aoe is huge. The idea that she will suck all the enemies towards her but will have to push them away to get the sweet spot damage is really satisfying and engaging as an on-field carry. Her normals can be infused with other elements, opening variety of comps but especially vape WITH Bennett (and you can stand on Bennett's circle while she sucks everyone in - while her autos apply pyro with C6 Bennett). But you can just as easily rely on off-field pyro application like Xiangling or Kazuha infusion... Idk. She may be great in freeze comps too due to her burst. Point is, you're constantly engaged and her normals, skill and burst work together fluidly! Edit: another thing I want to add: Her normals, while burst is active, push enemies away to the sweet spot range. But if enemies are heavy, she pushes herself back to that distance. And if the enemies are in-between light and heavy, you both get pushed half-half to maintain the sweetspot range. Also, it does NOT stagger the enemies!
Well, it wouldn't really make sense if they would sell Focalors as a DPS built on atk rather than a support built on HP since the elemental resonance have so far "complimented" the Archons with the exception of maybe Venti, and knowing that the hydro resonance is tied to HP (and once was healing), then it wouldn't be farfetched for Focalors to scale on HP rather than atk (and it follows the pattern of newer 5* hydro units with Kokomi, Ayato(somewhat), Yelan, and Nilou And according to leaks (don't scroll down if you don't want to look at it): Focalors may manipulate the HP of the team to provide corresponding buffs. Plus, I have a hunch that Focalors would buff other hydro units the most rather than buffing other non-hydros (due to HP manipulation of the whole team and possibly converting HP to damage) since there is a suspicious pattern of rerunning almost every 5* hydro unit before Focalors (Nilou in 3.6, in Kokomi in the last patch before 4.0, according to leaks, Childe and Yelan would also rerun in 4.0, and Ayato or Nilou may also rerun in 4.1 alongside another leaked 5* hydro character)
I disagree with the fact that "Archons are the strongest characters" or "god tier characters" because that's something that we build, we create, for hype. Zhongli was not considered a good character during release, in fact he is the *only* character who recieve a buff (at 1.3). Raiden was also not considered a good character when she released. Basically, during beta, Raiden ult could synergy with Beidou ult, and it was a strong combo, but when she released this combo has been removed, and mihoyo claimed that "Raiden dmg is considered ult dmg, not normal attack dmg, as such it doesn't synergy". This was the first time we heard this explaination, and it felt like a random nerf. That's why I don't like this argument: no one said that Zhongli should be "god tier", nor beta was an official showcase. That's "hype", something that, for some reason, we like to blame ourselves even if it's not our fault. It is a great way to sell anything and an even better way to get us dissapointed because we fear being disappointed.
They should be best at something or at least one of the top 3 characters in their element, I think the Hydro Archon should be one of the games best healers and have great Hydro aplication. I'm also hoping the Pyro Archon is gonna be the best DPS, or at least the best Pyro DPS.
In that case that would render Xingqiu, Yelan, and Kokomi completely useless. Hoyoverse has been fairly decent in not letting powercreep get too out of hand but that would just explode everything
@@maroondream9111 Nah You can have many hydro characters in 2 teams for abyss. For example, both Hutao and Nahida can use double hydro for vape and hyperbloom, Nilou also wants one or two for her bloom. Many strong pyro team also wants one. It's pretty easy to make 2 teams that have 3 or 4 hydro characters, those slightly weaker than hydro archon should still be relevant, just somewhat less desirable.
@@maroondream9111 good healing and hydro application would at most, powercreep kokomi and barbara. Just as Kazuha could be said to powercreep Venti and Sucrose. Most Anemo Characters are good and they mostly do the same thing, even though Kazuha is king, Venti, Sucrose, Wanderer and so on, are all still worth using and are still great characters. Yelan and Xinqou are the best Hydro characters, that doesnt mean Tartaglia isnt still a great Hydro character that's entirely worth using. So making the Hydro Archon the queen of Healing and maybe Hydro Application isnt going to make Yelan, Kokomi or Xinqou, any less worthwhile. Just like Kazuha, doesnt make Venti, Wanderer or Sucrose any less viable.
@@LCliffhangerKazuha didn't powercreep Venti and Sucrose Venti doesn't do the same thing = can be used in different situations = can't be powercrept by anyone who isn't as good at grouping as him Sucrose is literally equal in power level, arguably better if you consider that you don't have to spend 14k primos on average for her. Still amazing at buffing, only worse in freeze and mono teams, and can on-field for reactions unlike Kazuha. And mentioning Wanderer is straight up a joke, there's no way... HE'S A DPS, WHY ARE YOU COMPARING HIM TO KAZUHA 😂😂😂😂😂 (also he's quite probably the fifth worst 5 star DPS so RIPBOZO)
@@oliviaaargh my entire point was that they dont powercreep eachother even though Venti and Kazuha are the top Anemo characters Everything i said was that they dont powercreep eachother, so theres nothing wrong with the Hydro Archon coming out really strong because there will still be reasons to play the other Hydro Characters. My entire point was, you could say Kazuha powercrept other Anemo characters because he's generally the top Anemo character, but theres still plenty of reasons to use the other Anemo characters as Anemo is still one of, if not the best element. Just cause Kazuha and Venti are the kings of Anemo, doesnt mean you cant still use Wanderer or Sucrose to great effect. That was my entire point. I'm not saying they play the same by any means, i'm just saying it's fine to have more powerful characters, we shouldnt hold upcoming characters back just because they might be really powerful and might give us a reason to change some of our team comps. So even if the Hydro Archon is easily the top Hydro Character, Yelan and Xinqou are still gonna be just as Viable as they are now.
Almost...He has one flaw. He's a femboy QQ. There was a lot of videos where people show characters to people who don't play genshin. They always mistake XQ for a girl lol...
Imo, I hope the hydro archon is not a HP buffer. Not because it's a niche or anything. But more on the game balance. Think about it, if focalors provide HP buff, characters like hutao, Nilou, Yelan, hydro resonance, Bennett, kokomi will also get an immense buff as well. A lot of the HP scalers are already considered one of the best out there and the gap of their power level vs other attack based characters who are already not so meta will be larger than ever. Which could even discourage players from pulling for them. It's sounds kinda unfair for players who have to wait years to get a dedicated support where you still need her C6 for xiao or eula. HP scaling characters are already strong and are dominating the "meta". There is not much reason to buff them even more, why not buff some characters who do need one like dehya. It would much prefer if Focalors provide some new playstyle rather than just being a Vape/bloom/freeze support for already existing strong characters.
@@Malam_NightYoruHas it ever crossed your mind that some people enjoy meta, so if you don't know if they do this """"advice"""" is absolutely useless? lmao
Honestly, I really couldn't care less. I'm still pulling for her because of her design and element alone. If she ends up being amazing, then that's a win/win situation for me :) And I'm actually planning to get some cons. (I'm f2p but I'm saving up primos for her)
Instead of being the Strongest of each element I’d rather the representation of each element which they have done so far, for example Geo is all about shields, anemo is all about cc and movement , electro is all about energy recharge, dendro is all about reaction damage, hydro being all about HP and healing I presume Focalors will have a kit based around HP this can also be used to predict future archons such as cryo being about crit rate so the cryo archon may be a crit buffer that allows your units to build entirely for crit dmg etc
The hydro archon speculation/leaks suggest a healing and simultaneous buffing based on health consumption. A balancing act akin to the scales of justice. In that kinda role we don't really have much competition for her.
i think what is missing from hydro roster is the strong CC, since most current hydro units either dish out dmg, tanky, healer, or a buffer and yes you could say that mona's q and yelan's e are cc but aren't effective as much, plus people observed that most archon's abilities can be seen through the slimes abilities (somehow) so that is what i am mostly looking forward for the hydro archon
Nah, I think she has some limitations that stop people from using her in absolutely every comp, she is one of the best units in the game yes, but wouldnt say the strongest.
the only way Focalors could become a meta character is if she wouldn't try to compete with hydro appliers. her application shouldn't matter or at least shouldn't be her selling point. instead genshin should either give hydro a new direction for personal damage or give her a kit that buffs vaporise reactions in some way. she should get something that seems niche but is so strong that it makes everyone use this niche, kinda like how Nilou is with blooms. I'm thinking something with HP manipulation, maybe play into the way so many hp characters heal and make her a reverse healer, make everyone lose HP to gain massive buffs for atk and def or maybe elemental damage. or maybe you lose HP but gain it back for dealing damage to enemies. we already have like 2 characters who gain buffs from losing HP, but that niche is barely explored so it will be cool to see it expanded upon. Focalors Raiden Nahida Zhongli is better become a meta team or Imma cry.
@@oliviaaargh bruh Venti isn't gonna help in floor 12 of the spiral abyss with all the bosses. Zhongli on the other hand can help you against the dumb consecrated beasts that keeps throwing you around like a ping pong ball.
@@oliviaaargh Doesn't do anything? 1. Zhongli shred all element res including dendro. So the whole team dmg (including transformative reaction like hyperbloom's dmg) can be higher. 2. Having a shield means you no longer need to waste time dashing or anything so another dmg increase. 3. Zhongli also has CC from his burst which can help dealing some flexible monster and keep them in place. and not running around like those Consecrated Beasts or Dragonheir.
I do remember someone pointing out that to not make power creep, the hydro archon should provide something xq and yelan dont have, or instead of competing, she could bring out a new niche playstyle which will push her away from the competition and make her kit her own separate thing, like how zhong dong provides petrification
I agree with most comments - archons needs to be the best at the core of their element. In practice, it means they will work in any team comp you put them in. When it comes to hydro archon I think we will see new niche rising in Fontain. As some commented, it will be something that changes how we play hydro in general. Personally, I think hydro archon will be a niche, and the only 2 niches I can think of mechanically wise, is the Beidou/Candace/Yun Jin with parry as skill and enhancement of damage, but there's also Xiao that drains his own hp, so with archons being supports first what if there was some hp drainage in order to buff the rest of the team?
I mean I think "strongest" isn't necessarily the goal but being representative of their respective element by the traits that HYV attributed them to though it might not apply to all the characters of that element. Whether those traits aged well with the everchanging meta is another topic though. So far I think Anemo's focused trait is meant to be CC and Venti's CC is unrivaled when it works which these days isn't always the case with the enemy design and later spiral abyss floors. I'd say Geo is defensiveness and Zhongli can make you pretty untouchable and his C6 makes you essentially immortal. Then Electro I'd actually argue isn't necessarily ER but rather frequency and Raiden while she can deal damage her battery capabilities increase the frequency of burst usage and ER is one of the most direct forms of that. Dendro kinda seems like a similar case with elemental reactions with EM and elemental application being what helps manipulate that which is what Nahida has in her kit. Not quite sure exactly what trait they've attributed to hydro and Focalors respectively but I don't think it's necessarily just "HP is the hydro element because HP scaling reasons" and I'd like to think HYV would take a bit more nuanced approach than just using a different stat. Meme aside I'd like to think they might go with the whole "the power of water is its ability to take any shape" approach since water can both give and take life, be still and pure or a raging torrent, etc. Also could be pretty interesting commentary if they applied this to the whole "justice" ideal of Fontaine.
Have you ever wondered why dendro characters after Nahida turned out to be decent and not broken? Because hoyo learned from the kazuha/venti situation to not powercreep an archon.
I’m still pissed how they threw Venti to the dirt. It’ll always be a stain on them with how poorly he sells on rerun banners. At least it won’t happen again.
They made Alhaitham broken, they just limited him to pure off-field. Also they didn't powercreep Venti lmao, they're 2 completely different units. Powercreep isn't "oh there's a situation where X is better but a lot of the times Y is better" no, powercreep is "there's literally no reason to use X just use Y" Nahida powercrept DMC and Collei, because they're all off-fielders focused on applying Dendro, and Nahida is the best among them. The only reason all of them are still relevant is because Collei is really fucking good in very specific niches, and DMC is just amazing still, but not OP like Nahida. Hutao powercrept Klee because they're both Pyro on-fielders focused on dealing as much damage as possible, and Hutao's WAY WAY WAAAY better at it. Ganyu will be powercrept by Lyney, because they're both bow CA characters focused on dealing as much damage as possible. (Didn't include Tighnari since most of his power stems from single-target situations and the fact that Dendro reactions are overpowered.) Every Pyro DPS who isn't Hutao or Xiangling and VERRYYYY ARGUABLE MAYBE SO-SO Yoimiya will be powercrept by Lyney, because he's now the actual best last slot for Mono Pyro. Venti wasn't powercrept by Kazuha because Venti is focused on CC and battery, while Kazuha is focused on dmg amp.
@@oliviaaarghBig agree on most of what you said ! One day people will understand that Venti and Kazuha are just different characters. I mean I have the big 3 of anemo built, and it's actually pretty rare for me to hesitate between who to use when because they all have their own niche. If I just want CC (in a Scara team for example) there's no way in hell that I'm taking Kazuha over Venti. Though I just want to say that for now the best last slot in the Bennett-Xiangling-Kazuha core is still Klee because she actually synergises with everyone on that team. She brings a lot of energy and snapshots buffs very easily on most of her damage: she is the best Pyro driver for that core and that's unlikely to change from what we've seen of Liney. He seems like he would need a shield (which means replacing Xiangling or Kazuha) and rotation would be very tight to buff all of his damage compared to Klee who can frontload most of hers. Now I'm not saying he's bad, but I don't think he powercreeps her : she definitely had her use cases.
I think hoyo kinda shot themselves in the foot when they made/released nahida....the thing that annoys me is that every single dendero character after her is obligated by law to be worse than her 🙂
@@banjoowo4001 yeah cuz she follows the core of dendro, reactions. For example baizhu and yaoyao are there when you want dendro with healing. Haitham for dps. The rest are all indeed focussed on their core focus, reactions
Another thing I feel interesting to mention with all the hp scaling remarks is Barbara's recent nerf. The healing range of her burst was 200m, and has been nerfed to 30m, with the devs claiming it was a bug that has been in the game... since release. With how random the timing is, and how no one thought to fix this for 2 years, many people are suspecting the hydro archon is going to be a healer to one up Barbara being a five star and an archon.
I wouldn’t necessarily say Nahida is too strong, it’s just that she’s so much more comfortable to use than literally every other Dendro support. She’s not forced to play circle impact like some of the others, she doesn’t have energy issues, and her Dendro application is good enough that she can actually function as the only Dendro unit in a Dendro reaction team. It’s a shame that the other Dendro supports were intentionally designed with glaring weaknesses or poor usability in order to accentuate Nahida’s strengths and drive her sales.
The Hydro Archon needs to apply hydro constantly idependent from other characters hitting their auto attacks, then she would be perfect for comps focused on skills only
Imagine Hydro archon being Nilou but without restrictions and more universal buffs (not restricted to bloom teams but can also amp Vape / Electro charge)
What about low-damage, off-field AOE hydro application, combined with big HP buffs for team? Useful everywhere for the hydro app, but you only use her full kit if you have HP scalers
While I don't think archons should be the objectively, absolute 'best' compared to any same element character, I do think their kit should be a 'poster boy' and sort've pinnacle for what you would typically expect from the element. Many anemo characters focus on positioning, either moving around themselves or enemies, and swirl reaction that deals elemental damage in an AOE. Venti has both a skill that sends him in the air and one of the strongest vacuums that rapidly applies swirl/the swirled element. Geo has the best shields and non reaction dependent/no nonsense damage. Zhongli may not be a DPS, but his meteor can do a decent single damage chunk when built right, and he of course, still has the best shield overall. Electro is often themed around energy recharge and bursting/burst damage, Raiden is of course built around not only her own burst, but providing energy recharge and a boost to her teams' bursts. Dendro is themed more than any element around its elemental interactions, being the only element with two layer elemental interactions, and Nahida's kit is themed around high dendro application, EM boosting, and encouraging elemental reaction usage.
I think people should look at the current updates to the combat system, e.g. We have new mechanics in the game, with new enemies being tuff to compete with...so yeah I am looking forward to Furina's release
I mean if it were up to me to build the hydro archon’s kit I’d put an EM buff in there- idk just kinda makes sense and would make her a good support in dendro and hydro teams.
![The Archons vs The Heavenly Principles [Genshin Impact Lore and Theory]](/img/1.gif)
The Hydro Archon has some very tough competition.
hydro archon ultimate hp sucker
Leaks
She apparently has a lot of defense shred
@@Nine_Guinea_Pigs i cant wait for her to shred my defence
@@shaine9968 😨
But also very straightforward competition. Xingqiu and Yelan have damage and off-field application with normal attacks, Kokomi and Barbara have healing. Anything else, especially some new mechanic (like with other archons) is fair game.
before watching: Archons should always do SOMETHING that they _are the best at._ Doesn't necessarily mean they should be the best at everything within that particular element
Agreed. It's kind of like Raiden vs Fischl. Raiden is overall the more versatile of the two, being able to be bother a sub dps and your on-field carry. But Fischl still has her A4 passive which provides even more off field damage whenever you cause an electro elemental reactions. So when it comes to teams like Aggravate & Electro Charge, you're likely going to pick Fischl as your second electro unit because of how much she excels in that role.
If Raiden wereable to naturally do that passive in addition to the rest of her kit, that would be insane....which is exactly what they did with Nahida and Dendro. lol
Like Venti
Dehya and qq: the best at breaking player's hopes and dreams
Looking at the Hydro characters we have, it shouldn't be that difficult to find something the Archon could be the best at either. The best Hydro shielder is Xingqiu, who isn't even a shielder. The best Hydro crowd control is Mona's burst (or freeze, if you wanna count reactions). Almost all Hydro characters are damage, Hydro application, healing, or a combination of those, we don't have much variety
@@darkdude1996ify Can't be best hydro application, the only way to beat my man Childe is having his skill with no cd
Archon's should be the conceptually strongest representation.
But they should logically have better utility or practical usability to help their own playability.
that's a lot of rhymes mah dude
@chemioj2317 Honestly, the rhyme sense wasn't even intentional.
I just made this comment in between watching Gundam: Witch From Mercury, and I guess my brain auto shifted the terminology I typically use in chat to formal instead of meme shitposting.
spitting bars
straight BARS🥶
Bro casually spittin bars 🥶🥶
Not the elements, but rather the elements' main mechanic. Anemo's crowd control and mobility, Geo's survivability, Electro's energy regeneration, Dendro's heavy reactivity, Hydro's versatility, Pyro's offense and Cryo's consistency.
Well said
There's also the status effects that could be taken into account, cryo is the most annoying but noticeable one that I think increases stamina consumption and slows you down. Not sure what the rest do apart from making you or the enemies susceptible to reactions.
Plus, the Archons may be the core values of their element but variations are created by vision holders.
Like Kazuha sucks well and dmg increase
@@chilledout_5486 Electro - energy drain
Hydro - cool down
Idk about the others
Ok, but having the Pyro archon be the best damage dealer in the game would be a problem in a game where damage is the only meaningful metric
I personally feel that Archons should be a step above other 5 stars and it seems Mihoyo does treat them differently from other characters
they come around once a year and it's something to really look forward to. I also feel the same way about Harbingers but that may not be the case in Mihoyo's eyes.
Well, Wanderer was the character with the most people working on him so they do take care of them
I agree, Archons should always be placed above 5 stars, i do think they should be the strongest of their elements as well, matter infact they should be in their own tiers as 6 stars, just my thoughts though
Not necessarily. In HI3, the Herrschers are the most powerful being in lore but as playable they have the same rank from others. There are also some playable Herrschers who got powercreep.
@@dr_titaniathey got power creeped? As in, they were extremely good at release, being meta characters? Yeah.
@@themustardman219 take Herrscher of the Void for example
The fact that some people said Raiden was underwhelming when she first released was insane
People say this every time a new archon drops lol, except maybe Zhongli.
Always happen lol its the Genshin community
@@mohammadalloush8636 yeah, people said zhongli was useless not underwhelming when he first released
@@ilyaszulkarnain ZhongLi was actually really bad when he came out back in 1.1, i didnt use him until they buffed Geo 2 patches later.
@@ilyaszulkarnainthats because he almost was.
Venti is currently underrated. Originally he was so strong that they literally had to make enemies specifically to weaken him in Inzauma.
Not to mention they actually buffed him again by making him able to suck enemies again. Now he can suck the samurai and the floating 1 eyed thingy too
Right? Besides, we will see about Fontaine, but he is super useful in Sumeru.@@crewgunnight8987
i still use him for my team
Not really I think everyone know when the ennemi are not too heavy is the best anemo Not even close 😅
@@crewgunnight8987 wait, where?
They don't have to be the STRONGEST but they must be the peak of what their element is. Venti is the bigest suck in the game and also allows you to fly (tho that got powercrept by Scaramuche), Zhongli is the ultimate shield that far surpasses anything else, Raiden generates the most energy and her chackra desidorata intracts with the energy usage of other party members like nothing else, Nahida is the best at creating reactions and even has the unique ablility to boost the reaction damage of others.
I have no idea how they are going to do this for the next 3 but they must stand out.
The themes remaining are HP for hydro, Brute force big damage for pyro and Crit and/or freezing for cryo. I'm ganna be honest. I would much prefer character like Hu Tao falling out of the top tier rether than an incredibly plot relevant and hype character ending up strictly worse than someone from 1.x
Hu Tao is just a dps.
More likely, Murata will powercreep Xiangling's AoE pyro application and/or Bennett's support capabilities.
Or all three of them will be powercrept by her. Or, since 5.0 is over a year from now, she might be like Nilou and add a totally new reaction that is unique to her.
@@Jaz-tk5vxif hydro isnt a dps then pyro probably will be one
@@Jaz-tk5vx Idk, i can't not picture vermilion knight: eclipse Himeko when i think of Murata so i kinda just asumed for years that she is going to be thr better Diluc
I wouldn't say Venti's being able to let you fly got powercrept. Because Scara can only make himself fly, while Venti can make his team fly.
There still is the untouched area in all elements of someone surpassing elemental gauge norms. The pyro archon could simply buff Hydro by applying enough pyro gauge (I think 4U is the highest atm) that reverse vaporize actually becomes a thing. It's actually what I wanted them to do with Dehya.
Something like Nahida's mark that would trigger any time an elemental reaction was triggered on the marked opponent it would refresh the elemental pyro aura. Buffing the entire hydro roster and giving Yelan and Childe new team options where they are fully main dps.
Could also do something like cause iron body or root (something like a "molten" state that would make it difficult to move enemies around) allowing for overload teams to work on regular mobs. You would just have to pull them together first cast the "molten" state and then go ham with overload reactions.
Could also use the same mark to decrease shield strength or enhance the elemental gauge applied of all incoming elemental damage. There's plenty that they can do without powercreeping. They just need to be more creative than different colored or larger damage numbers.
Genuinely, considering the current roster of Pyro characters, and considering archons are best at something in their element, the pyro archon is going to be an absolute MENACE
cant wait to have himeko in genshin too not gonna lie, saying this because her name is already released and is clear they are going for the multiverse theme
@@CzDelta92 if himeko in every universe I wonder if
I like to imagine his or her kit to be fireworks display with explosions and fire particles everywhere. Just to go with the main theme of Pyro, power.
@@dev32 Imagine we get a kit even more backloaded than Eula. A really long rotation of nothing happening just to melt one single mega strike of pyro
@@BlazeLibra oh that would be a pain
The fact that Furina walks over water already makes her absolutely desirable.
[8:51] The *Hydro Archon* just needs to have most of her elemental application coming from *Skill* instead of *Burst* to be better than Yelan and Xingqiu, as that would make for a character that is easier to build (no ER required) and has higher damage floor/ceiling (more rolls available), even if her numbers turn out to not be that good. Same for the Pyro archon.
nilou has good elemental application from skill, yeah she won't do damage with that in non-nilou style teams, but if what you need is hydro application, she has it.
barbara and kokomi can do that
I think hydro archon needs to do two things- have a max HP increasing ascension passive (maybe 10-30% depending on how many stacks you have) and 2.5u hydro application on her burst. Easy fix
@@salt1360 Barbara's and Kokomi's off field hydro is one pulse every.. what, 2 sec?
Gauge theory gives them an issue.
Xingqiu and Yelan work well because they do MULTIPLE hydro hits at once. Hydro archon needs that, or she will fall behind.
@@jadecoolness101 no ,barbara can apply hydro from her ring whenever ur active character gets close to enemy , she heals every 3-4s but that isnt her hydro application.
The difference between focalors/furina compared to the other archons is how no matter what, as long as she deals off field hydro dmg at a fast pace, she'll be good.
"What's better than one xingqiu? TWO xingqius! You know what's better than two xingqius? THREE xingqius!!!!"
Yelan, Xingqiu and Furina 😂 - I am already crying looking at my wallet
I already got 2 xq....on my way to get another xq
What's better than 4 xqs? 3 xqs and an aoe xq that buffs every other xq!
@@Soundwave1900 waiting for that xq too
@@gauravghosh870Focalors, Xingqiu, Yelan and Candace. The enemies will know Hydro Application.
Something I think that could make the hydro archon unique in a way that other hydro units can't offer, is the ability to reduce cooldowns for everyone in the party. The hydro element already has a bit of a connection with cooldown (eg, the monstadt weapon domain) so it wouldn't be an too far fetched. She also would be able to provide a unique role that wouldn't pit her against someone like Yelan
Considering we don't have anyone that triggers a powerful vape from hydro with the ease that most of pyro can, I'd love to see that
I love cooldown reduction (thundering fury, sacrificial weapons, etc) so I'm really hoping for something like this
That would limit the teams she can be, maybe that could be cool on some teams, but would make improper CD rotation on others, making her useless. Besides they would make characters in the future with limitations to don't get benefit from Focalors.
For example, Yelan have in her talent a dmg buff limitation made for Raiden C6.
They changed in beta how her talent works, at first, she was keeping the buff while her burst is active, so a Raiden C6 who can reduce CD from burst 5 seconds would let Yelan buff infinite, they changed the talent and reseted the buff when she recast her burst. That was anti Raiden C6 change. Imagine in the future making that in elemental skills.
@@isdrakon9802To my understanding, the whole reason that we don't have powerful vape carries on the hydro side has more to do with the way that amplifying reactions interact with the amount of aura element on the target enemy than it has to do with the source of the reaction
Forward vaporize removes significantly more pyro aura from an enemy than reverse vaporize removes hydro aura from an enemy... so it's not so much that we don't have hydro characters who can deliver strong attacks to amplify via forward vape. It's that we don't have pyro supports whose off-field pyro application can keep up with the amount of pyro aura removed via repeated forward vaporize reactions
So... if you want forward vape to become a viable team, pray for characters with consistent and high-unit off-field pyro application. Like... basically pray for pyro Xingqiu
I think it is gonna be the cryo archon skill, since it is hoyo game, we are gonna get Bronya at some point, and my guess the cryo archon is another Bronya.
The Mona, Nilou and Kokomi erasure is insane. Morgana was the bomb. Nilou and Kokomi became part of the meta
Really upsetting they didn’t mention Kokomi in this. She’s amazing in both her healing and her off field hydro application. She doesn’t apply hydro to your characters like barbara either, which was a real problem in Barbara’s playstyle, so she’s great for a ton of reactions.
The problem with Nilou's cores is that she erases your team too. Unless you have Kokomi or Baizhu on your team you'd be playing Genshin Dark Souls.
@@kamveng453 yaoyao literally exists and she eliminates those. As a main bloom driver, she is can be insane with xq/candace. Yaoyao has 50% dendro res and she heals your entire team on burst. That self dmg may have been a problem before but not anymore and we shouldnt ignore that. Thats literally the kuki situation.
@@kamveng453 or kaveh
I keep forgetting that Mona even exists. Back in the day she was in every vaporize team but now nobody even mentions her to the point where I completely forgot what her kit even is.
I might not be using Jean for her CC, but punting enemies off a cliff, or into deep water and watching them down never gets old for me. 😄
Ong, I think I went on 2 months straight just pushing people 😂
Interesting to see how this has aged with Furina out. Id argue that Furina qualifies as the strongest of her element by lifting up other units both in her element and outside of it.
Archon's need to have at least one aspect of their kit that makes them the strongest in their respective element.
Like how Nahida will always have the best Dendro application out of all the Dendro characters. Someone like Alhaitham can have comparable levels of dendro application, but Nahida can accomplish that off field as well as on field, while Alhaitham can only do so from the latter.
Despite Alhaitham applies dendro so fast on field, but yeah off field dendro application makes Nahida much better.
Yeah, Alhaitham and Nahida’s case is truly a good one. Alhaitham does more onfield dmg and is basically Dendro Tartaglia when it comes to elemental application. But Nahida has part of that an much MUCH more. So they overlap on some areas but no enough to make the other useless
the problem of that guess, xingqiu is alrd had strongest hydro application off field, and childe alrd had strongest hydro application on field, how then?
@@Farisss11 xingqiu's application is single target , just give the archon an AoE application and she'll surpass him easily
@@Farisss11 AOE xingqiu for hydro archons
I just noticed the tanooki at the bottom of the screen that shows video progress, love it
Perfection🎉🎉
For me, they need to be the core definition of their element. Crowd control, reactions, energy battery, and shields in each kit are the central focus. You'll likely have at least one Kazuha in every future element that has a unique spin on the kit and meta, but I think the archons are meant to showcase what the singular aspect of their element tends to focus on.
I really hope Furina gets the same treatment as Nahida not only in power lvl, but also in character lore and region interactions (like Nahida's mind reading ability for Sumeru NPC)
Hi, speaking from the current time. Furina is the best hydro
Well you know there's still neuvillette so im not sure about that
@@kredablegaming7153Well neuvillete is a sovereign so it's okay if he's stronger than her but furina should be strong among the fontaine character
she can shift between Pneuma and Ousia and can walk on water I'd say that certainly fits the bill
@@julesgarcia7406 Her kit does look really good for supporting. I just pulled C1 Wriothesley and I think there could be some good synergy between them. But i wouldn't necessarily say she is the best hydro. Very good, but idk if best yet
I’d say they should be the primary representation of their element’s core design philosophy. As a consequence of that it is to be expected that they should be strong in order to excel in that role. That doesn’t necessarily have to mean they have to be the strongest character of their entire element though, as there can be other play styles covered by other characters within the same element that they aren’t in direct contention with
Id like to see her buff hydro reactions. Especially transformative reactions. If she could bring freeze, shatter, and electrocharge comps into the mainstream for a while, I think that would create a unit that isnt broken or competing with XQ and Yelan while still being meta defining.
now if they really make that its honesty will be really good, imagine if her ultimate will make rain or something and also buff the hydro reaction dmg its definitely worth it bro
Isn’t freeze mainstream? It’s always the most used comp for people completing abyss
@@uatom With how boss heavy the abyss has been for the past few cycles, freeze loses a large chunk of its appeal, as you're missing out on both croud control and crit rate woth them being unfrozen. Based on usage rates, I would assume dendro comps followed by childe national is the most common.
@@Abicated dendro is just insanely op, any unit that can be used with dendro reactions instantly becomes useable. I’d prefer if they buffed other elements.
@@uatom Hey, man. You won't hear me disagreeing. I really want them to buff the bottom half of reactions for more viability. That means buffing crystallize, physical, freeze, shatter, overload, burgeon, burning, and electrocharged. If I'm being honest here, I'd also like to see a unit that works around unique melt mechanics. Not just throwing xiangling and Bennett on a team, but something fresh.
I'm a hydro main and I love how good all of them are in their own way. They all bring something unique to the table even candance and barbara with their lower usage. I don't expect the hydro archon to be the best hydro character because there will always be some place where another hydro will be better. I just hope the hydro archon continues that trend and furthers hydro's dominion as the best element imo
Barbara does have a team where she's generally the best for: a Nilou Bloom team.
An on-demand heal on a team where you do take a ton of self-damage.. I believe Barbara also has a slightly longer burst animation so you can stay invulnerable for a little longer too as a side thing lol
@@AbyssArray agreed. Her usage is lower than other hydros unfort
I think Furina did a good job of showing how through unique utility, i.e. her dual Arkhe and water walking, you can keep the Archons feeling powerful without having to power creep all the other units of the element. Granted Furina is also very goddam strong with just how many things she can accomplish with having big buffing ability and super easy off-field dps.
Coming back to this after Neuvilette leaks, yeah Furina has very big shoes to step into. Even going the healer route with a HP not like Kokomi will be difficult (who also happens to have insane hydro application) 💀
An archon doesn't necessarily have to be the strongest but they have to be the one who represents their element well and for hints look at the resonance buffs.
Venti with his crowd control fits the above criteria.
Zhongli too. Geo represents shields so ofcourse he should have the best one.
Raiden gets the best ER and consistent electro application.
Nahida is the best EM and reaction buffer.
So extrapolating that further for the future.
Hydro archon should have something HP related but also maybe something to do with versatility and fluidity. She should work with any and all teams.
The pyro archon should be the archon who is actually supposed to be a DPS. Make them the best at it. Also because all the previous archons were supports or support adjacent, a dedicated DPS archon would not break the game too much.
The cryo archon is basically another option for a freeze team. So cryo application like raiden skill and maybe a nuke with a crit rate buff to the party after using it.
About the pyro archon paragraph - Raiden Shogun is already an amazing DPS, so u cant say that there is not dedicated DPS
@@mak1x3I think they meant a DEDICATED DPS. Meaning there is no room for her to be off field to work, unlike Raiden Shogun who's a great support on top of being a great DPS. Kinda like Hu Tao
My prediction for Focalors kit is either or a combination of these:
1. HP-scaling
2. Skill cooldown reduction
3. Bubbles
I'm looking forward to be proven wrong. I'll be surprised if I'm right. 🤣
My bet is on direct HP buffer. Meaning she just straight up increase team's max HP and buff their dominant stat (e.g Kazuha's EM, Yelan's HP, Albedo's DEF, Yoi's ATK, etc.). That way, she can be EXTREMELY versatile in any teams possible, combined with some CC features where Hydro is lacking would be nice too
People definitely expect her to be strong purely based on lore. I don't know what Hoyo has planned up their sleeves because we already have so many busted hydro characters.
I mean they could just go healing route and easy powercreep barbara and kokomi, having a xingqiu/yelan that also heals
@asoret18 DPS/ Healer, that could work. The trick is how to make a new character that doesn't make existing ones redundant.
@@asoretwouldn't that bring the game off balance tho in how OP that would be?
@SaAd-oy8iw well raiden broke the balance alongside nahida. The thing is AT THE TIME of their release they didn't truly power creep anyone other then their respective traveler variants.
@@saad_5151it’s not op if they balance her multipliers
Furina is arguably way OP and also much more balanced. She's very risk/reward in how she works, and I think that's the smartest way they could've handled it.
Genshin seems to be using a similar methodology that honkai impact has used over the years with hershers and archons, in both games everytime a hersher or archon is realeased they have the best numbers but more importantly have the game change around them, meaning new mechanics, bosses and everything else. I think with the hydro archon they will introduce something that is synergistic with her kit while giving her very good numbers allowing for a new niche.
you mean like introduction of new mechanism? 😮
The game's combat system has a solid foundation imo and Hoyo has deliberately kept off any sudden changes to it (some might argue it was too slow). With that foundation in place I think with the upcoming archons they can explore more gameplay styles. Hydro can do something with HP. Pyro can do something like a DOT (Make burning viable or something). Cryo can bring shatter to limelight. (While they are it do something with crystalize please....).
Reminds me of a leak Dehya being a Burning reaction character
@@arrrrrrrr6593 We all know how that turned out, the 'burning kit' character to 'burnt out kit' character.
After 1.1, Burning will never be the viable mechanic, unless it's like Raiden's Eye of Stormy Judgment.
They probably should be, but in the specific case of Focalors, they can tune her such that she's on par with the other options or slightly worse, but give her massive role consolidation. Like give her slightly less healing than Kokomi, slightly less damage than Xingqiu, etc, but be able to perform all those roles. Epic role consolidation could set her apart while not technically powercreeping everyone.
I love a good ol' jack of all trades.
Especially given hydro's theme of flexibility, having the hydro archon serve multiple roles in a team EFFECTIVELY, would be great.
"The power of water is its ability to take any shape" after all.
Yelan: Probably the best character in the game. Incredible damage and buffing as well as overworld exploration.
Xingqiu: Probably the second best character. He makes up for his damage (which is still very good) with the best off-field application and utility.
Childe: Although a bit hard to use he applies the most hydro and does it Aoe! He is not as flexible but international variant is “still” one of the best teams.
Ayato: Although his ceiling is lower than Tartagles he is incredibly flexible and has so many synergies and potential with other supports.
Kokomi: Aoe hydro application and healing makes her a staple in dendro teams. She even can be a good main dps and driver (Sukokomon, Light of KeqingMains).
Mona: She lost her spot to Kokomi and her power to Dendro but she is still (in my opinion) the best hydro for freeze teams and still offers the most powerful debuff ever.
Nilou: Her investment to power ratio is absolutely crazy and does not demand specific supports, just hydro dendro boom boom.
At this point Focalors has to summon the whole ocean to the abyss if she wants to have a spot in our teams.
Call Yelan the "best character" is a bit of a stretch, to say the least. She's also very niche, there's only a handful of characters that work well with her Burst.
Also, Xingqiu sucks, those who are still using him are seriously nerfing themselves.
I saw a dude trying to use Yelan and Xingqiu in a Hyperbloom team with Nahida and Kuki in Abyss and my god, it was painful to watch. Honestly, if you don't got Hu Tao or Yomiya, Yelan ain't even worth it.
@@bobjones4469 xinqui is probably the best character in the game, he is completely broken
@@bobjones4469 xingqiu is one of the best characters, gives you good offfield application and damage, damage reduction(It is very strong with or without shield) and some healing. I have a C4 yelan and still I sometimes consider xingqiu for his defensive utility. You are trolling or may be just new to game and its mechanics.
@@nicopz4270 my opinion the “best” character doesn’t even exist. XQ is probably the most versatile in combat
Yelan in combat and open world where XQ lacks
While I think Kazuha wins over Yelan with Combat and overworld
But put Kazuha in any team where he doesn’t swirl an element and or group enemies and his usability drops immensely
Kokomi is great for survivability and support in general even overworld so you don’t have to tp to the statue or eat your heart out to survive but her power is lacking and even in healer senses some healers are “better” than her depending on investment ofc also
Soo long story short
There is no best character in my opinion
Love the little details of your videos like listing music and having a cute progress tracker
I was pulling for Lyney, but know I am waiting for Furina. If I win the 50/50 she will be my first archon and honestly I don't are how powerful she is. I just really like her design and knowing how popular Yelan is I will have many opportunities to pull for her
I don't expect the Hydro archon to powercreep any of the existing hydro units. But if she was designed to, she would need to follow these conditions:
- having very fast off-field application (no icd) that doesn't rely on normal attacks to trigger
- have HP damage scalings similar to Kokomi but without her crit rate limitations
- apply at least 3 units of hydro
- revive teammates easily without a 15 minute cooldown
- be an HP buffer in their base kit
A lot of expectations for the hydro archon, hope mihoyo wont mess her up. Every hydro unit released has been very good, like seriously aside from barbara and candace every hydro unit right now are just top tier units.
Barbara is still good in many teams and Candace is a good Unit for beginners
Candace is good though? She buffs more than Yun Jin in crowd situations... Candace is just niche.
niche doesn't equal bad.
To put it simply: They're Gods of their own elements, so yes.
I expect Hydro archon to be a combo of Xingqui and Kokomi with immense amount of Hydro Application and great Healing potential while still having considerable damage.
I'd like her to be like... an upgraded Kuki.
Reliable healing on skill that follows you, with good elemental application (hydro archon would probably want a little more application than Kuki) and then a dps focused burst. Whether that burst is actually her doing damage, or buffing the team, or a little of both... Just something to Do Damage.
Leaks
From the looks of it, she's off field hydro application while buffing the team for a lot.
Hmm I have an idea for Furina, the hydro archon’s kit, playing with the idea of duality (life steal & healing)
1. (Normal/charged attacks) just sword dances
2. (Skill- buff through life steal) Skill creates a 15s water “shield” on active character, shooting water projectiles that deal small hydro dmg whenever character performs NA/CA (kinda like beidou’s burst)
During this period, slowly drains all party members’ HP over time (until 20%HP max drain) while buffing all characters dmg based on the HP lost (buff ends when shield expires)
3. (Burst- buff through healing) for 15s, creates a field that slowly draws enemies towards the centre , where water orb/cage/bubbles will emerge, homing in & trapping enemies. This cage deals periodic hydro dmg while enemy is trapped inside until it destroyed on its own (after 5s) or through popping. Characters who pop them (through any hydro reactions) will be healed & gain a dmg increase based on amount healed (lasts until burst duration ends)
3. (Passive) after active character pops burst bubble, increases their max HP & grants an EM bonus based on their max HP (lasts until burst ends)
-essentially, if you unleash burst and skill together, characters can get all multiple buffs mentioned above + won’t die cuz of simultaneous healing and HPdrain mechanics
Ooh interesting, but it would be better if the em buff in the passive was changed into something else because thats nahida's thing
Maybe the hydro archon could be a dps, a healer and/or an exploration character. Kokomi shows off that they could possibly make the new archon be amazing in water exploration. Just imagine if the skill allowed you to walk on water, has a long duration but a short cooldown like Raiden’s skill. If they wanted to implement healing factors for her, they could just make it like Barbara’s skill but the hydro application is in a bigger range and doesn’t affect the player when they’re healed. They could give her a hydro infusion for her attacks if they rather not have hydro application intervene with other reactions. The burst could be like a combination of Nilou’s and Barbara’s, that would definitely pack a punch with healing over time. It would make her unique and still manage to be overpowered if she scales with HP as that would most likely increase her numbers in both offence and healing. I can’t wait to see how they make her play style function as something powerful and special to her!
Crazy theory some people think that the hydro archon will have two forms. I think that would be a great way to make her super good. if one form was a good dps while the other was a really good short or healer. And this wouldn’t be like Childe it would be so that you Could switch at any time and stay as one form for as long as you want.
The funny thing is I went out of my way to find Venti a spot on a team, and find he does great in Hyper Bloom/Aggravate/Spread teams due to all the electro ticks he can do while sucking in the Bloom Cores. Probably the one niche he has over Kazuha since the more ticks of electro/dendro the better for those reactions.
You can also unironically make him swirl Hydro instead (hyperbloom situations), and this is even better than swirling electro imo.
This let's you built more dmg on Venti by going for the crit build instead if the em since you might not even be creating enough blooms to need that much electro.
It also helps in creating more seeds for the electro char to proc rather than him stealing procs.
Another is that the Hydro characters usually like as much er as possible, so his energy refund passive helps them, while electro characters for hyperbloom don't really need their bursts.
It's funny watching this after Furina ATE completely on her relase lmao. She may not be an Archon anymore, but she definetely slayed her element
I would say Venti still qualify to be the best anemo user for the main utility the element provides which is crowd control. Although they have an overlaps with their role, they are meant to work differently since Kazuha is more of a buffer.
I think a little power creep is ok, if they keep trying to prevent it we could end up with another Dehya situation, and I don't think anyone wants that to happen.
Kazuha literally powercrept Venti, Hu Tao powercrept Klee and Diluc, Dendro basically "soft" power creeping Anemo and Cryo. Powercreeping already exists since ever in Genshin, but miHoYo just won't do that too often as people will never pull for reruns in the future.
@@thebluescaptain How did Dendro powercreep two elements that are used in dendro teams? Did you forget Nahida and Dehya are part of the best Ganyu Melt team or that Aggravate teams exists and use Anemo units?
Kazuha doesn't have Venti's suction range, which is what Venti does best, so... yeah. Kokomi also powercrept Tartaglia in healing, lol.
Hu Tao sucks in Monopyro, so how can she have powercrept Klee?
@@axelvinicius3365 Easy to debunk that comment.
1. Dendro doesn't need Anemo to work and people lately just use double hydro double dendro for hyperbloom and no anemo for spread.
2. Venti's suction is basically useless already and there's virtually no suckable enemies and how spiral abyss enemies are always put way far apart. Kazuha boosts swirl like crazy and how his bursts has a lot of functionality.
3. Nobody really uses Cryo for meta purposes. It's all just for waifu loyalty. And you bring Dehya? Lol. One jump/freeze/knock and it's over.
4. Kokomi and Childe have ultimately different roles. Also, mono element is impractical so that argument is irrelevant.
@@thebluescaptain the dendro one is wrong, both are completely different playstyle and there are teams which uses dendro and anemo together in a team like keqing/yae aggreviate or that kokomi yae team etc
@Kasraken getting a new character being bad rather seeing your well build character where you put hours into building get powercrept is much better
I think Archons should bring something the element is missing, or yes be the strongest
The idea of the hydro arrchon being a HP buffer might work : What if she adds a ton of HP to all party members, but she drains their HP with her burst to get a massive ATK buff, where a portion of the buff would be given to allies, kinda like the ER on Xiphos Moonlight. This would work considering the hydro resonance. And on top of all, it would'nt restrict her to a HP buffer.
@oeshik4542 I'm not sure how reliable the leaks are but it seems that her burst reduces the health of your party (like Kuki) but you gain a lot of buffs...again not sure how reliable the leak is but definitely different from the massive hydro healers and applicators we have now
I think they will always be the best at what they mainly do venti with crowd control zhongli with shielding raiden with energy and nahida with application
All the archons have brought quality of life (QoL) improvements to me: an old uncoordinated person playing with a touchscreen (iPad).
Venti's whirlwind allowed me to be more imprecise in combat and also gave me occasional rest breaks. He also made world movement and catching crystalflies easier. I have to admit that Kazuha is even better for QoL.
Zhongli is in nearly all of my teams. My inability to dodge resulted in me dying a lot before his arrival.
Raiden allowed me to solo many more domains than I could before. Before Raiden I always needed friends to co-op with me to build my characters.
Nahida allows me to spin in place instead of chasing enemies. Farming is also much nicer.
The hydro archon doesn't have to be good in combat. I'm looking forward to seeing what QoL improvements she brings. The archons, I think, are designed for people who are unskilled at the game :)
She could be the best off field hydro applicator that doesn't rely on basic atracks. That way she could be insanely powerful, fill that playstyle and not step over Yelan in terms of supporting capabilities. I Still want to make an only hydro team though 😂
nice prediction
@@Elrog3I'm dying to see her in action. I've been farming artifacts for her since the launch of Fontaine and I just need one good sands or circlet and I'm all set
I do think Archons, at least in canon, should be the best at their element. I also like to think that they're just holding back their full power (like how Yae only uses 1/5 of her power when using her skill) since they can literally terraform Teyvat. Gameplay wise, I think not necessarily, and it doesn't ruin the immersion either.
The thing is, not everybody likes Yelan or xingqui's playstyle so even if she is a support, people may want her more than Yelan strictly off of playstyle alone. The fact that her status is archon level is enough reason for players to get her already.
"You're just not good at child" 👍🏼
9:22 Yeah, fucking pop off! Go tell em!
I'm sorry I'm a Childe main I had to
I'm pulling for her regardless of her kit, her design and voice are absolutely gorgeous
Wow, this was exactly what I was just thinking of too! I don’t think archons should be the best, but have a utility good and “niche” enough that they won’t be powercrept into obscurity. Although some might say Venti got outclassed by Kazuha, Venti is still the strongest in his niche: crowd control. He still makes movable mobs feel like a joke and despite the changes in current abyss, I doubt that utility of his to ever “fall off” in the future. I expect the same from the hydro archon - I don’t think any other hydro character can surpass Xingqiu or Yelan’s global utility right now, but that doesn’t mean focalors can’t be equally powerful in her own niche and unlock meta teams in the future, just like every archon has in the past.
I mean it makes a lot of sense in a story telling perspective to be stronger. Gameplay wise, archons are quite hard to come by so it also makes sense that their kits are strong and has longevity in mind.
I think the thing that makes the archons strong is that they are practically always useful. They can all be slotted into most teams and do everything needed from their element. They might not be the best at everything but they CAN pheasably do everything their element demands of them and do 1 thing better than the rest. For the Hydro archon that would probably include healing, damage, hydro application and buffing, so I guess she’ll do all 4 and do 1 better than anyone else like the other archons (except the all-powerful Nahida).
you prediction came true. she heals, does great damage, avg hydro application and god level buffer
Do a part two of this please
They're the GODS OF THEIR ELEMENTS. Of course they should be the strongest or at least extremely overpowered.
Unfortunately Zhongli isn't extremely overpowered + L + Ratio + Gorou better + You don't pick a shielder based on shield strength, just what they offer WITH shielding + RIPBOZO + only necessary for mid characters or bad players
Commenting after Furina's release,
she's cranked and buffing 80% of the characters in the game.
Venti: Drunk Musician
Zhongli: BROKE
Raiden Shogun: Booba Blade
Nahida: Mind Reader
Focalors: Ace Attorney
Murata: Kratos, but a Girl
The Tsaritsa: Evil Elsa
nahida stalker. shogun deez nuts
Archons come once a year they are the pinnacle of hype. They should definitely be better
Light & Abbyss would be the elemental powers of those who resides in Celestia, and since Celestia is the final arc, there will be another characters who uses Light & Abbyss elements such as Dain.
These beings are beyond the Archons, just like the Traveller.
Yes. And I am not biased as someone saving for C6 Furina as a f2p.
Nope not biased at all.
I feel like Mihoyo baked in their own plot element as an out for archon’s being not being OP. Losing their gnosis suggests that a significant portion of their power is lost.
Well idk, not necessarily the case with Raiden
@@avenotrius4340 Yae gave hers to Scaramouche in exchange to save the traveler. So she’s not operating with one like when she killed the snake
They could just make the hydro Archon do different Things than yelan or xq, like idk make her a buffer/healer anything or idk something new,so like that she might not be best hydro char but with xq's existence it just is hard to bassicly impossible
Raiden is fucking awesome. Been using her at C3 since she came out.
I LOVE how she’s just like:
“okay everyone lets spam your burst to fuel my nuke type burst”
So my sister decided it would be funny to stack all of her childe artifacts on barbara and now is able to do 70k damage in charged attacks.
Here's my BEST idea that I could think of so far. (Full kit idea below, I think it's a pretty exciting idea!)
An On-Field FORWARD vape carry. Consider this:
Childe and Ayato already fulfill the roll of on field carrys. And they do it quite well. BUT they are ENABLERS. Xingqiu and Yelan are S tier supports, who are ALSO enablers by nature. So instead of stepping on either of their toes, we consider what's missing - good hydro shielders, hydro resistance shred (I guess Xingqiu does that a bit), Strong AoE hydro application, which falls off in single target (like Beidou but Hydro)... But I think a dps where YOU can decide when you wanna apply the element is really engaging.
Her Kit:
Normals: Polearm user. Don't do much damage but are REALLY important. Have low or mediocre scaling.
Skill: Strikes with her weapon in front of her, dealing damage in a VERY wide cone. Enemies on the outer/further area of that cone area are dealt WAY more damage than enemies close to her (in other words: the outer edge of her skill is the "sweet-spot"). Has a VERY low cooldown (I'm talking 2 to 4 seconds ish). Importantly, NO ICD!
Burst: Does a single instance of damage (medium scaling - but could be low or high depending on balance) in a MASSIVE AoE (I'm talking Kazuha or Ganyu burst sizes) and creates a "water vortex" for x seconds. While water vortex is active:
1) she will KEEP PULLING IN any enemies that are in that aoe range towards her.
2) Her NORMAL attacks will PUSH the enemies away from her (so that they are in the skill sweet-spot range).
3) Her skill will gain bonus damage.
Now - notice that she's ONLY applying hydro with her Skill and just once with her burst at the start. But her skill aoe is huge. The idea that she will suck all the enemies towards her but will have to push them away to get the sweet spot damage is really satisfying and engaging as an on-field carry. Her normals can be infused with other elements, opening variety of comps but especially vape WITH Bennett (and you can stand on Bennett's circle while she sucks everyone in - while her autos apply pyro with C6 Bennett). But you can just as easily rely on off-field pyro application like Xiangling or Kazuha infusion... Idk. She may be great in freeze comps too due to her burst.
Point is, you're constantly engaged and her normals, skill and burst work together fluidly!
Edit: another thing I want to add:
Her normals, while burst is active, push enemies away to the sweet spot range. But if enemies are heavy, she pushes herself back to that distance. And if the enemies are in-between light and heavy, you both get pushed half-half to maintain the sweetspot range.
Also, it does NOT stagger the enemies!
Too long, will not read.
Well, it wouldn't really make sense if they would sell Focalors as a DPS built on atk rather than a support built on HP since the elemental resonance have so far "complimented" the Archons with the exception of maybe Venti, and knowing that the hydro resonance is tied to HP (and once was healing), then it wouldn't be farfetched for Focalors to scale on HP rather than atk (and it follows the pattern of newer 5* hydro units with Kokomi, Ayato(somewhat), Yelan, and Nilou
And according to leaks (don't scroll down if you don't want to look at it):
Focalors may manipulate the HP of the team to provide corresponding buffs. Plus, I have a hunch that Focalors would buff other hydro units the most rather than buffing other non-hydros (due to HP manipulation of the whole team and possibly converting HP to damage) since there is a suspicious pattern of rerunning almost every 5* hydro unit before Focalors (Nilou in 3.6, in Kokomi in the last patch before 4.0, according to leaks, Childe and Yelan would also rerun in 4.0, and Ayato or Nilou may also rerun in 4.1 alongside another leaked 5* hydro character)
I disagree with the fact that "Archons are the strongest characters" or "god tier characters" because that's something that we build, we create, for hype.
Zhongli was not considered a good character during release, in fact he is the *only* character who recieve a buff (at 1.3).
Raiden was also not considered a good character when she released. Basically, during beta, Raiden ult could synergy with Beidou ult, and it was a strong combo, but when she released this combo has been removed, and mihoyo claimed that "Raiden dmg is considered ult dmg, not normal attack dmg, as such it doesn't synergy". This was the first time we heard this explaination, and it felt like a random nerf.
That's why I don't like this argument: no one said that Zhongli should be "god tier", nor beta was an official showcase. That's "hype", something that, for some reason, we like to blame ourselves even if it's not our fault. It is a great way to sell anything and an even better way to get us dissapointed because we fear being disappointed.
They should be best at something or at least one of the top 3 characters in their element, I think the Hydro Archon should be one of the games best healers and have great Hydro aplication.
I'm also hoping the Pyro Archon is gonna be the best DPS, or at least the best Pyro DPS.
In that case that would render Xingqiu, Yelan, and Kokomi completely useless. Hoyoverse has been fairly decent in not letting powercreep get too out of hand but that would just explode everything
@@maroondream9111 Nah You can have many hydro characters in 2 teams for abyss. For example, both Hutao and Nahida can use double hydro for vape and hyperbloom, Nilou also wants one or two for her bloom. Many strong pyro team also wants one. It's pretty easy to make 2 teams that have 3 or 4 hydro characters, those slightly weaker than hydro archon should still be relevant, just somewhat less desirable.
@@maroondream9111 good healing and hydro application would at most, powercreep kokomi and barbara.
Just as Kazuha could be said to powercreep Venti and Sucrose.
Most Anemo Characters are good and they mostly do the same thing, even though Kazuha is king, Venti, Sucrose, Wanderer and so on, are all still worth using and are still great characters.
Yelan and Xinqou are the best Hydro characters, that doesnt mean Tartaglia isnt still a great Hydro character that's entirely worth using.
So making the Hydro Archon the queen of Healing and maybe Hydro Application isnt going to make Yelan, Kokomi or Xinqou, any less worthwhile.
Just like Kazuha, doesnt make Venti, Wanderer or Sucrose any less viable.
@@LCliffhangerKazuha didn't powercreep Venti and Sucrose
Venti doesn't do the same thing = can be used in different situations = can't be powercrept by anyone who isn't as good at grouping as him
Sucrose is literally equal in power level, arguably better if you consider that you don't have to spend 14k primos on average for her. Still amazing at buffing, only worse in freeze and mono teams, and can on-field for reactions unlike Kazuha.
And mentioning Wanderer is straight up a joke, there's no way... HE'S A DPS, WHY ARE YOU COMPARING HIM TO KAZUHA 😂😂😂😂😂 (also he's quite probably the fifth worst 5 star DPS so RIPBOZO)
@@oliviaaargh my entire point was that they dont powercreep eachother even though Venti and Kazuha are the top Anemo characters
Everything i said was that they dont powercreep eachother, so theres nothing wrong with the Hydro Archon coming out really strong because there will still be reasons to play the other Hydro Characters.
My entire point was, you could say Kazuha powercrept other Anemo characters because he's generally the top Anemo character, but theres still plenty of reasons to use the other Anemo characters as Anemo is still one of, if not the best element.
Just cause Kazuha and Venti are the kings of Anemo, doesnt mean you cant still use Wanderer or Sucrose to great effect.
That was my entire point.
I'm not saying they play the same by any means, i'm just saying it's fine to have more powerful characters, we shouldnt hold upcoming characters back just because they might be really powerful and might give us a reason to change some of our team comps.
So even if the Hydro Archon is easily the top Hydro Character, Yelan and Xinqou are still gonna be just as Viable as they are now.
I love the shark is running the same speed as video time indactor(like loading screen)
Honestly can’t see her being better than c6 Xingqiu, he’s literally perfect
Quite literally the best character in the game lmao
Almost...He has one flaw. He's a femboy QQ. There was a lot of videos where people show characters to people who don't play genshin. They always mistake XQ for a girl lol...
Lack of AOE, the only thing she could be better
He lacks AoE
@@Polypoly06 THAT'S A FLAW FOR YOU?????????????
Imo, I hope the hydro archon is not a HP buffer. Not because it's a niche or anything. But more on the game balance. Think about it, if focalors provide HP buff, characters like hutao, Nilou, Yelan, hydro resonance, Bennett, kokomi will also get an immense buff as well. A lot of the HP scalers are already considered one of the best out there and the gap of their power level vs other attack based characters who are already not so meta will be larger than ever. Which could even discourage players from pulling for them. It's sounds kinda unfair for players who have to wait years to get a dedicated support where you still need her C6 for xiao or eula. HP scaling characters are already strong and are dominating the "meta". There is not much reason to buff them even more, why not buff some characters who do need one like dehya. It would much prefer if Focalors provide some new playstyle rather than just being a Vape/bloom/freeze support for already existing strong characters.
Or just pull for what you want and play what you like. You don't need the "cheap paths for success", my man. cheers
@@Malam_NightYoruHas it ever crossed your mind that some people enjoy meta, so if you don't know if they do this """"advice"""" is absolutely useless? lmao
Honestly, I really couldn't care less. I'm still pulling for her because of her design and element alone. If she ends up being amazing, then that's a win/win situation for me :) And I'm actually planning to get some cons. (I'm f2p but I'm saving up primos for her)
Instead of being the Strongest of each element I’d rather the representation of each element which they have done so far, for example Geo is all about shields, anemo is all about cc and movement , electro is all about energy recharge, dendro is all about reaction damage, hydro being all about HP and healing I presume Focalors will have a kit based around HP this can also be used to predict future archons such as cryo being about crit rate so the cryo archon may be a crit buffer that allows your units to build entirely for crit dmg etc
The hydro archon speculation/leaks suggest a healing and simultaneous buffing based on health consumption. A balancing act akin to the scales of justice. In that kinda role we don't really have much competition for her.
i think what is missing from hydro roster is the strong CC, since most current hydro units either dish out dmg, tanky, healer, or a buffer and yes you could say that mona's q and yelan's e are cc but aren't effective as much, plus people observed that most archon's abilities can be seen through the slimes abilities (somehow) so that is what i am mostly looking forward for the hydro archon
Archons usually represent the main job of their element. Hydro would be subdps/ healer probs
@@thatminer7174 no heal anymore, the hydro resonance has been changed to buff hp, I bet she would do the opposite lol like take away hp
Not only is Furina the best Hydro Unit in Genshin, but the strongest character period. RIP past Raleil.
Nah, I think she has some limitations that stop people from using her in absolutely every comp, she is one of the best units in the game yes, but wouldnt say the strongest.
She isn’t even the strongest in her element. It’s hard to tell with how hydro is
the only way Focalors could become a meta character is if she wouldn't try to compete with hydro appliers. her application shouldn't matter or at least shouldn't be her selling point.
instead genshin should either give hydro a new direction for personal damage or give her a kit that buffs vaporise reactions in some way. she should get something that seems niche but is so strong that it makes everyone use this niche, kinda like how Nilou is with blooms.
I'm thinking something with HP manipulation, maybe play into the way so many hp characters heal and make her a reverse healer, make everyone lose HP to gain massive buffs for atk and def or maybe elemental damage. or maybe you lose HP but gain it back for dealing damage to enemies. we already have like 2 characters who gain buffs from losing HP, but that niche is barely explored so it will be cool to see it expanded upon.
Focalors Raiden Nahida Zhongli is better become a meta team or Imma cry.
that's already a meta team there.😂😂😂. hyperbloom archon team if Furina's kit has some good application.
Focalors Raiden Nahida Venti* Zhongli doesn't do anything there lmao, bro's standing around, in fact he's just getting in the way of reactions
@@oliviaaargh bruh Venti isn't gonna help in floor 12 of the spiral abyss with all the bosses. Zhongli on the other hand can help you against the dumb consecrated beasts that keeps throwing you around like a ping pong ball.
@@JustASunflowerSeeD And? The Abyss is resetting in 4 days. And it's a LOT MORE Venti-friendly this time around. Just wait and see I guess?
@@oliviaaargh Doesn't do anything?
1. Zhongli shred all element res including dendro. So the whole team dmg (including transformative reaction like hyperbloom's dmg) can be higher.
2. Having a shield means you no longer need to waste time dashing or anything so another dmg increase.
3. Zhongli also has CC from his burst which can help dealing some flexible monster and keep them in place. and not running around like those Consecrated Beasts or Dragonheir.
I do remember someone pointing out that to not make power creep, the hydro archon should provide something xq and yelan dont have, or instead of competing, she could bring out a new niche playstyle which will push her away from the competition and make her kit her own separate thing, like how zhong dong provides petrification
I agree with most comments - archons needs to be the best at the core of their element. In practice, it means they will work in any team comp you put them in.
When it comes to hydro archon I think we will see new niche rising in Fontain. As some commented, it will be something that changes how we play hydro in general. Personally, I think hydro archon will be a niche, and the only 2 niches I can think of mechanically wise, is the Beidou/Candace/Yun Jin with parry as skill and enhancement of damage, but there's also Xiao that drains his own hp, so with archons being supports first what if there was some hp drainage in order to buff the rest of the team?
I mean I think "strongest" isn't necessarily the goal but being representative of their respective element by the traits that HYV attributed them to though it might not apply to all the characters of that element. Whether those traits aged well with the everchanging meta is another topic though.
So far I think Anemo's focused trait is meant to be CC and Venti's CC is unrivaled when it works which these days isn't always the case with the enemy design and later spiral abyss floors. I'd say Geo is defensiveness and Zhongli can make you pretty untouchable and his C6 makes you essentially immortal. Then Electro I'd actually argue isn't necessarily ER but rather frequency and Raiden while she can deal damage her battery capabilities increase the frequency of burst usage and ER is one of the most direct forms of that. Dendro kinda seems like a similar case with elemental reactions with EM and elemental application being what helps manipulate that which is what Nahida has in her kit.
Not quite sure exactly what trait they've attributed to hydro and Focalors respectively but I don't think it's necessarily just "HP is the hydro element because HP scaling reasons" and I'd like to think HYV would take a bit more nuanced approach than just using a different stat. Meme aside I'd like to think they might go with the whole "the power of water is its ability to take any shape" approach since water can both give and take life, be still and pure or a raging torrent, etc. Also could be pretty interesting commentary if they applied this to the whole "justice" ideal of Fontaine.
Have you ever wondered why dendro characters after Nahida turned out to be decent and not broken? Because hoyo learned from the kazuha/venti situation to not powercreep an archon.
I’m still pissed how they threw Venti to the dirt. It’ll always be a stain on them with how poorly he sells on rerun banners. At least it won’t happen again.
They made Alhaitham broken, they just limited him to pure off-field.
Also they didn't powercreep Venti lmao, they're 2 completely different units.
Powercreep isn't "oh there's a situation where X is better but a lot of the times Y is better" no, powercreep is "there's literally no reason to use X just use Y"
Nahida powercrept DMC and Collei, because they're all off-fielders focused on applying Dendro, and Nahida is the best among them.
The only reason all of them are still relevant is because Collei is really fucking good in very specific niches, and DMC is just amazing still, but not OP like Nahida.
Hutao powercrept Klee because they're both Pyro on-fielders focused on dealing as much damage as possible, and Hutao's WAY WAY WAAAY better at it.
Ganyu will be powercrept by Lyney, because they're both bow CA characters focused on dealing as much damage as possible. (Didn't include Tighnari since most of his power stems from single-target situations and the fact that Dendro reactions are overpowered.)
Every Pyro DPS who isn't Hutao or Xiangling and VERRYYYY ARGUABLE MAYBE SO-SO Yoimiya will be powercrept by Lyney, because he's now the actual best last slot for Mono Pyro.
Venti wasn't powercrept by Kazuha because Venti is focused on CC and battery, while Kazuha is focused on dmg amp.
@@oliviaaarghBig agree on most of what you said ! One day people will understand that Venti and Kazuha are just different characters. I mean I have the big 3 of anemo built, and it's actually pretty rare for me to hesitate between who to use when because they all have their own niche. If I just want CC (in a Scara team for example) there's no way in hell that I'm taking Kazuha over Venti.
Though I just want to say that for now the best last slot in the Bennett-Xiangling-Kazuha core is still Klee because she actually synergises with everyone on that team. She brings a lot of energy and snapshots buffs very easily on most of her damage: she is the best Pyro driver for that core and that's unlikely to change from what we've seen of Liney. He seems like he would need a shield (which means replacing Xiangling or Kazuha) and rotation would be very tight to buff all of his damage compared to Klee who can frontload most of hers. Now I'm not saying he's bad, but I don't think he powercreeps her : she definitely had her use cases.
@@feathersinthewind Oh yeah, I overlooked the fact that he most likely wants a shield.
So yeah, except for Hutao, Xiangling and now Klee*
I think hoyo kinda shot themselves in the foot when they made/released nahida....the thing that annoys me is that every single dendero character after her is obligated by law to be worse than her 🙂
Not really, nahida cant compete with haitham for dmg for example, just all support for dendro.
@@thatminer7174 dps is the exception, rest of the dendro supports are really bad compared to nahida
@@banjoowo4001 yaoyaos gud
@@isaiaholat3293 not really
@@banjoowo4001 yeah cuz she follows the core of dendro, reactions. For example baizhu and yaoyao are there when you want dendro with healing. Haitham for dps. The rest are all indeed focussed on their core focus, reactions
Another thing I feel interesting to mention with all the hp scaling remarks is Barbara's recent nerf. The healing range of her burst was 200m, and has been nerfed to 30m, with the devs claiming it was a bug that has been in the game... since release.
With how random the timing is, and how no one thought to fix this for 2 years, many people are suspecting the hydro archon is going to be a healer to one up Barbara being a five star and an archon.
A hydro CC like the whirlpool buff in labyrinth warriors event would be great
yes end of conversation
agreed
@@lesterherrera9581bro replied to his own comment, but yeah
@@justarandompersonontheinte5119 real recognize real
I wouldn’t necessarily say Nahida is too strong, it’s just that she’s so much more comfortable to use than literally every other Dendro support. She’s not forced to play circle impact like some of the others, she doesn’t have energy issues, and her Dendro application is good enough that she can actually function as the only Dendro unit in a Dendro reaction team. It’s a shame that the other Dendro supports were intentionally designed with glaring weaknesses or poor usability in order to accentuate Nahida’s strengths and drive her sales.
I feel like archons should be the best at something. I guess they can go for something that hydro has none of right now.
The Hydro Archon needs to apply hydro constantly idependent from other characters hitting their auto attacks, then she would be perfect for comps focused on skills only
the fact this was right
Imagine Hydro archon being Nilou but without restrictions and more universal buffs (not restricted to bloom teams but can also amp Vape / Electro charge)
What about low-damage, off-field AOE hydro application, combined with big HP buffs for team?
Useful everywhere for the hydro app, but you only use her full kit if you have HP scalers
While I don't think archons should be the objectively, absolute 'best' compared to any same element character, I do think their kit should be a 'poster boy' and sort've pinnacle for what you would typically expect from the element.
Many anemo characters focus on positioning, either moving around themselves or enemies, and swirl reaction that deals elemental damage in an AOE. Venti has both a skill that sends him in the air and one of the strongest vacuums that rapidly applies swirl/the swirled element.
Geo has the best shields and non reaction dependent/no nonsense damage. Zhongli may not be a DPS, but his meteor can do a decent single damage chunk when built right, and he of course, still has the best shield overall.
Electro is often themed around energy recharge and bursting/burst damage, Raiden is of course built around not only her own burst, but providing energy recharge and a boost to her teams' bursts.
Dendro is themed more than any element around its elemental interactions, being the only element with two layer elemental interactions, and Nahida's kit is themed around high dendro application, EM boosting, and encouraging elemental reaction usage.
I think people should look at the current updates to the combat system, e.g. We have new mechanics in the game, with new enemies being tuff to compete with...so yeah I am looking forward to Furina's release
i am calling it rn.
Furina is going to be a pure dps at c0.
Mark my words hehe.
Considering the patience we need to acquire them, yes. Yes they should.
I mean if it were up to me to build the hydro archon’s kit I’d put an EM buff in there- idk just kinda makes sense and would make her a good support in dendro and hydro teams.