People put Zangief into the top slot to try to downplay how good their character actually is, or because they're focusing on his huge damage *potential* ignoring the hundred step plan we need to output that damage.
It's more of a problem with a weak character in S1 getting a BIG boost in S2 tbh. There's like 3 good Gief players entering EVO while there are a dozen good Eds and Kens and Akuma's entering the tournament. If it was Punk who is running into Itabashi then we might probably hear Cammy mains crying their eyes out instead of this vod.
@@InvarielI think zangief is top 5, he has a decently easy time walking in especially at high levels where the top players perfect parry nearly every projectile, his jump Mk is fast and hp can counter a ton of neutral options. Not even gonna mention fHp but his pressure is very scary. His dmg output is scary and his neutral is well, scary. Top players are putting him in top 5 for a reason. He does have to make reads like any character, his game plan is just more solid than it was.
@@iamsin6808 You are quite entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. Playing him, I see how many characters have an easy time shutting down his strengths and keeping him permanently at disadvantage. If he can get in, he's devastating, and a couple of quick throws can end a round quite aggressively, but he has so much going against him that it's difficult to put him in any high tier.
@@Invariel high level players disagree. I think the difference between low tier and high tier players is the defensive options that low level players don’t use, like backdash, jump cancel SPD., block jump OS, on knockdown zangief has more options that are often not displayed. Topenga league had the most stacked players and it was won by a zangief.
A few notes from the matchup of lily from a fellow zangief player the neutral game has to change a bit in this instance as Zangief cannot get in as easy and lily can counter alot of his neutral buttons before his buttons can land to counter the Condor wind hit you can use drive impact but the important part is knowing when to use it and when they using the empty Condor Wind to bait you into a reverse drive impact using drive reversal in the long run against Condor spire can drain you completely and quickly so the only alternative is using a spaced Armor HP and letting go as the first hit connects alternaively if you have the reflexes you can air spd the normal one, windstock and EX windstock version can only countered using lariat but each of these methods needs a understanding of the correct timing also reactions gotta be on point
DI, sadly, is not the response when she has windstock. Same with 5HP, which can be easily punished by Lily. If I had to give a tip atm, it'll be to work on perfect parries rather than borscht or super level 2. She has the upper hand in the neutral and aa. It's a very punishing match.
I agree with the perfect parries as they can change the scope of the match only issue being it can be baited so they can catch you with punish throws if used too often, definitely use di if he does the mp or hp version of condor wind as light can be used to bait a DI but lariat is super effective against condor spire if you can see it coming, but getting her to jump more is the key to winning
You gave us some Spanish lessons so I will tell you some native American ones… Chakotay “Cha-Ko-Táy” is a Sioux native American name. It was also used in Star Trek Voyager represented by Mexican American actor.
I learned a little Spanish and I learned a little about the matchup (even though I already knew these were free for Jamie and Lily). These may be worse than Gief vs JP or Dhalsim.
T-Hawk's playstyle was never meant for an annoying shrimp like her. I have hated this character since day one. A grappler with that much mobility, small hurtbox and versatility shouldn't do that much damage. And i am sorry i want my Reversal EX SPD back and on top of that OD Lariat should be upperbody invincible. If it's an Anti-air then people should only be hitting Zangief's feet and not stuffing it with buttons.
Zangief needs a horizental special move ... similar to green hand and nerf his damage a bit .. thats gonna balance lots of things out relatedto specific characters' matchups. The horizental move should not give oki at all and bounces off the wall to lose the corner pressure. Otherwise zangief is gonna be OP.
3:21 From now on, this play will be known as the Itabachi Reset 😅 Been having a really tough time against Jamie players lately. That matchup is Obnoxious AF. Against Lilly, I either use jump back mk or a preemtive DI to stop Condor Spire. Still terribly hard MU.
Good to hear you're feeling better kerplunk! While gief was fighting for his life in SF6, at least hayao got us a great show in 3rd strike 🤣 Wish we could at least use lariat against spire or smth
I'd love to see some review of SimpleTricks's run since I believe he made it the furthest out of any zangief at Evo. He 2-0d Smug and ChrisCCH. Also yeah this matchup is trash and Chakotay played great. Itabashi did drop a lot of combos/opportunities though.
Lmao the entire game is neutral skip special rinse and repeat. If you don't see all of the top characters doing the same shit you aren't watching the game.
I'm not a gief main but the best advice I can give you is learn the spacing of his sweep, forward heavy kick, heavy punch and light spd while keeping in mind that the opponent can Drive Impact. Those moves allow him set spacing traps that the opponent has to respect you just a bit. His knee is really good as well so I would learn the spacing because if you get a counter hit, you can get some damage off it as well. Really your spacing can help keep them honest as well as making them take more risk which you should take advantage of.
Gief does not really need anything if they fix Lilly, for example she can hit you with crouching HP but you cannot whiff punish it as seen at @6:18 Lilly should lose the + frames on normal Spire, that would help with the matchup.
This is why I've been vocally against tier lists putting Gief in the top slot. Characters with strong counter-picks. should NOT be placed there.
People put Zangief into the top slot to try to downplay how good their character actually is, or because they're focusing on his huge damage *potential* ignoring the hundred step plan we need to output that damage.
It's more of a problem with a weak character in S1 getting a BIG boost in S2 tbh. There's like 3 good Gief players entering EVO while there are a dozen good Eds and Kens and Akuma's entering the tournament. If it was Punk who is running into Itabashi then we might probably hear Cammy mains crying their eyes out instead of this vod.
@@InvarielI think zangief is top 5, he has a decently easy time walking in especially at high levels where the top players perfect parry nearly every projectile, his jump Mk is fast and hp can counter a ton of neutral options. Not even gonna mention fHp but his pressure is very scary. His dmg output is scary and his neutral is well, scary. Top players are putting him in top 5 for a reason. He does have to make reads like any character, his game plan is just more solid than it was.
@@iamsin6808 You are quite entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. Playing him, I see how many characters have an easy time shutting down his strengths and keeping him permanently at disadvantage. If he can get in, he's devastating, and a couple of quick throws can end a round quite aggressively, but he has so much going against him that it's difficult to put him in any high tier.
@@Invariel high level players disagree. I think the difference between low tier and high tier players is the defensive options that low level players don’t use, like backdash, jump cancel SPD., block jump OS, on knockdown zangief has more options that are often not displayed. Topenga league had the most stacked players and it was won by a zangief.
A few notes from the matchup of lily from a fellow zangief player
the neutral game has to change a bit in this instance as Zangief cannot get in as easy and lily can counter alot of his neutral buttons before his buttons can land
to counter the Condor wind hit you can use drive impact but the important part is knowing when to use it and when they using the empty Condor Wind to bait you into a reverse drive impact
using drive reversal in the long run against Condor spire can drain you completely and quickly so the only alternative is using a spaced Armor HP and letting go as the first hit connects alternaively if you have the reflexes you can air spd the normal one, windstock and EX windstock version can only countered using lariat but each of these methods needs a understanding of the correct timing also reactions gotta be on point
Thanks for sharing. I hate this matchup so much I might just write this down.
DI, sadly, is not the response when she has windstock. Same with 5HP, which can be easily punished by Lily. If I had to give a tip atm, it'll be to work on perfect parries rather than borscht or super level 2. She has the upper hand in the neutral and aa. It's a very punishing match.
I agree with the perfect parries as they can change the scope of the match only issue being it can be baited so they can catch you with punish throws if used too often, definitely use di if he does the mp or hp version of condor wind as light can be used to bait a DI but lariat is super effective against condor spire if you can see it coming, but getting her to jump more is the key to winning
You gave us some Spanish lessons so I will tell you some native American ones… Chakotay “Cha-Ko-Táy” is a Sioux native American name. It was also used in Star Trek Voyager represented by Mexican American actor.
A lily is what took me out of pools at EVO. I feel his pain
The Lily matchup was already an uphill battle, but you can just see the frustrations from Itabashi mount up as the matches went on.
I learned a little Spanish and I learned a little about the matchup (even though I already knew these were free for Jamie and Lily). These may be worse than Gief vs JP or Dhalsim.
Was having a decent day, then you had to remind me of this match 😂😂😢... Oh well I did it to myself by watching I guess lol!
T-Hawk's playstyle was never meant for an annoying shrimp like her. I have hated this character since day one. A grappler with that much mobility, small hurtbox and versatility shouldn't do that much damage. And i am sorry i want my Reversal EX SPD back and on top of that OD Lariat should be upperbody invincible. If it's an Anti-air then people should only be hitting Zangief's feet and not stuffing it with buttons.
Making OD lariat upper body invincible would do so great.
I can’t stand how even OD lariat trades or gets stuffed way too often
Zangief needs a horizental special move ... similar to green hand and nerf his damage a bit .. thats gonna balance lots of things out relatedto specific characters' matchups. The horizental move should not give oki at all and bounces off the wall to lose the corner pressure. Otherwise zangief is gonna be OP.
3:21 From now on, this play will be known as the Itabachi Reset 😅
Been having a really tough time against Jamie players lately. That matchup is Obnoxious AF.
Against Lilly, I either use jump back mk or a preemtive DI to stop Condor Spire. Still terribly hard MU.
superturbo ass matchup
Good to hear you're feeling better kerplunk! While gief was fighting for his life in SF6, at least hayao got us a great show in 3rd strike 🤣
Wish we could at least use lariat against spire or smth
Lillys is a taugher matchup then JP
I'd love to see some review of SimpleTricks's run since I believe he made it the furthest out of any zangief at Evo. He 2-0d Smug and ChrisCCH. Also yeah this matchup is trash and Chakotay played great. Itabashi did drop a lot of combos/opportunities though.
True SimpleTricks was going in
Were his fights streamed? I don't remember
People put Zangief on top tier because what he gets when he gets in....WHEN and IF he gets in , that's not top tier for me
rooting for kobayan at eswc
I think Lily’s gameplay design is terrible. Neutral Skip Special. Rinse & Repeat 🤮
Lmao the entire game is neutral skip special rinse and repeat. If you don't see all of the top characters doing the same shit you aren't watching the game.
Lilly is so cool 🎉❤
Also is a los tier 🤷🤷
gief S+ tier.....0 gief in top 24
That's Evo winner Punk's tier list, totally accurate.
@@Mandydethpunk is rush main of course they hate grappler
At least I can enjoy some good street fighter as gief vs ken and luke but against lily its just not even the same game 😭
If lily wasnt able to cancel second hit of c.hp she was definitely be bottom teir
She would still have windstock and condor, so I don't think it would hurt her that much. Definitely not with those buttons either.
Gief matchup tier list is horrible, but he still beats the majority of top tiers 6:4.
I'd say he has issues with the majority of the cast. Probably, Manon and Honda are his only true 6-4 matches.
@@SiberianLab nah bro, gief wins much more matchups than that.
Ryu, kimberly, ed, guile and much more
found the gief downplayer
What do you mean by that?
Modern makes it slightly better
Bro, how can I improve my neutral with Zangief? I think my offensive is good but my neutral is really rubbish
I'm not a gief main but the best advice I can give you is learn the spacing of his sweep, forward heavy kick, heavy punch and light spd while keeping in mind that the opponent can Drive Impact. Those moves allow him set spacing traps that the opponent has to respect you just a bit. His knee is really good as well so I would learn the spacing because if you get a counter hit, you can get some damage off it as well. Really your spacing can help keep them honest as well as making them take more risk which you should take advantage of.
@@ThaRealElementX thanks bro
might be the worst matchup in the game
So what does Gief need for Lilly to improve the match up?
The ability to combo into SPD.
Maybe an invincible wake up OD lariat? Idk
Gief does not really need anything if they fix Lilly, for example she can hit you with crouching HP but you cannot whiff punish it as seen at @6:18
Lilly should lose the + frames on normal Spire, that would help with the matchup.
delete her from the game
watching this live sucked.
Is itazan=itabashi?
Itazan - Itabashi zangief
ITAbashi ZANgief. I just realized they were the same person within this month.