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Nice work. I have never heard the argument that extended the computer simulation into the theoretical paper and pencil framework and that really got me thinking. Another job well done
+Physics Videos by Eugene Khutoryansky Thank you for bringing up the idea of the possibility that physical law may govern the operation of the brain, I've tried to have a number of conversations with people about this exact idea with varying degrees of success.
Nice video as always. But I'm quite curious to know how you animated the physics of the animations. Are the physics encoded in the program that you are using? Or do you do it manually?
In my opinion it implies that 'consciousness' is a construct, something invented by us. Not a real thing. A behavior of a system with sufficient complexity.
+Jaroslav Malec Perhaps, but without "consciousness", could this question even be asked? Or does it simply imply that a system of sufficient complexity can begin to ask questions? At what point is it real, or artificial, awareness and/or consciousness? And most importantly, does it matter?
What? But it's clear that we are conscious. Consciousness could arise from matter, but I really wouldn't call it a construct. It's the most basic truth of reality.
When simulating a brain, you also need to simulate inputs to the brain. In theory, this could be anything - you could "feed" the simulated brain anything from intensely pleasurable to intensely painful sensations. Is it, then, immoral to simulate intensely painful sensations with the pencil-and-paper simulated brain, essentially torturing it? Does this mean that it's immoral to solve certain math equations? And what if you don't simulate the painful sensations... the answers that the simulated brain *would* give to these painful sensations are the same, whether or not you go through the motions of writing the numbers down. Surely it can't be the case that by merely writing the equations/answers down you're torturing the simulated brain? After all, you're merely discovering answers that are already mathematically fixed!
+eugeneo1234 This is a brilliant comment! It touches on the whole question of whether equations as abstractions can actually represent realities that are as physically 'real' as our reality is to us. And it opens up the possibility that perhaps our own reality is nothing more than an abstraction, and feels real merely because we are embedded in it. The apparent moral paradox, by the way, disappears once you assume that morality is a relative and human concept, and therefore meaningless outside of human perspectives.
This sounds to me as a logical fallacy. Is a philosopher philosophizing about the steak in his plate going to starve? Of course. Is the mathematical formula actually feeding you? Of course not. That's why we have to build machines like LHC. So no, you won't be torturing anything unless you create a real brain based on these mathematical formula so...
I belive, that things that humans imagine (like solving the equation) are real only because atoms in our brains are doing some kind of movement (or some kind of computation) so there is no difference if the simulation is in the computer, on the paper or only in human brain - it is always some movement or exchange in energy in some elementary particles. And for the simulated brain to feel painful sensations time must go on. So you have to solve more than one equation. Also the equations are self-reffering(you need to know infomartion about previous frame each time) You cannot just solve one equation to know the future. So for the simulated brain to feel something I belive you must spend some time doing equations.
I think that basic assumption is that only brains are consious, what if brains are only most efficient in experiencing consiousness. Maybe some stones are experiencing reality in some way, but it takes them milions of years to feel what some brain can feel in one second (feel is not the right word, but i am not native english speaker) Same with the simulated brain, it can feel something but it takes it very long time.And what about ants? Whole anthill is made of little ants, just like brain is made of neurons. Can you say, that the anthill thinks, or feels something?
i think the human consience is an "sense" generated by billion and billion years of evolution and crossing genes, as the other fifth human senses. That's obvious it's a physical thing, but, nowadays, try to emulate this on computers is quite impossible.
This is still one of my favorite videos ever. I like coming back and rewatching it every so often. Really fun to think about this idea and to reflect on it.
it depends on the definition of consciousness, if we add the sense of time as proprety of conscious systems, then the simulation on the piece of paper isnt really conscious since its a static system.
it is not true because according to quantum mechanics when we will write the equations we would not get a particular solution instead we would get various solutions with certain probabilities and thus it would not be conscious. And one more think that I think is that we can't exactly copy the actual brain because of some uncertanities
@@Erzmann255 consciousness must obviously exist because if you take the entire universe as an entangled single particle interfering with itself, something must be measuring it and making it collapse, or perhaps every universe possible just exists, still we only experience 1 of them, still yet there's something measuring just one.
Ohh my god congratulations best video on youtube ever in my opinion. such a good work. I'm a physics undergraduate student for many years i've wanted to do computer science since i was 11, i done programming from that age until now, and i got interested in physics because of the simulations, wonderfully tailored simulations done with very rich algorithms in C++ but i never ever ever thought of the idea you proposed in the end about consciousness. Absolutely amazing and beautiful, Thank you for this fantastic and insightful video!
I like the way you choose words. It's very informative and provoking thoughts. You understand your material very well and is a master at choosing English words to explain the concept! Because the real world is continuous and the computer is discrete, speaking about constant velocity over a short period of time is really important.
To be honest, we're already done the simulating the human brain on papers by word written on it. It's just a different construct that we could used to "simulate" the feeling and meaning the one that write it want to converse. There's also the notion that literature is alive and all.
Your videos are really great, because they help visualize something you often just see as equations on paper. I myself am a very visual person, so these kinds of images help me tremendously. I hope you keep making these videos and in fact I wish I were rich so I could fund more videos like these. I think that there should be a free university online where the best educators create content for people free of charge. Anyone interested in learning these things could then watch videos with lectures, simulations like the ones you provide and even with equations that explain how these things work. I think if there was a way to show the calculations that go into this, it would be a worthwhile endeavor. The wealthiest people in the world should all pitch in and help create such a resource. It would allow many who might either not live near schools or who just cannot afford school to learn everything needed in order to find work not only in scientific fields, but in all fields of study. The things you are doing are invaluable, but I can only imagine how much better the videos could be along with having the equations being represented and explained if you had more money and people to help you with the creation of these RUclips videos. Either way I want to thank you for all the work you put into this, because frankly I know you are doing it because you want more people to understand how our world works and that alone is an amazing gift to all people everywhere.
Professor Khutoryansky, could you tell me if possible please what was the music used in the last part of the video? Is it from youtube audio library? Does anyone know? (I know I am a bit crazy about instrumental music !!!) I mean the music that begins from 10:50...
All the music in this video is from the free RUclips audio library, and the names of the songs are the following. Hungarian_Rhapsody_No_2_by_Liszt Stale Mate
@@EugeneKhutoryansky Respected Professor, I can't thank you enough for your reply. I am really grateful to you. And as usual, I definitely will try my best to earn you as many subscribers as possible! You deserve it, and more!
Very fascinating with the paper example. I'm writing a book on AI and the philosophy and ethics of it. One useful concept is the "pattern machine" concept. Given a large function with large inputs, could a computer use one to simulate all of the "correct answers" for a consciousness test. But since it is a pattern machine, would it hold any consciousness, and could we really tell the difference? Could we be pattern machines? You're welcome for the existential crisis if you are reading this.
I wonder if I could ask for your thoughts on my main post to the video which I think goes in a similar direction to your thoughts. Also, any word on the book? Sounds like it could be interesting.
Another Awesome video! Systems of simple things forming more complicated systems are quite common in nature but not understood very well. Neurons in the brain, cells in the body, ants in a colony, people in society, computers in the internet. The individuals play a part in the overall processes but their individual actions are limited. The universe is just layered systems of complexity, possibly with consciousness being the most.
11:12 "If we believe that a brain is composed of atoms and molecules behaving according to the laws of physics, simulating a human brain should theoretically be no different than simulating any other physical system, provided we had sufficient computing power." This is an assumption which has a lot of packed complexity. Part of that complexity is composed of unknowns, and a common problem with arguments of this kind is a failure to acknowledge these unknowns (or even the fact that assumptions are being made). For instance, if we do not yet know all of the ways in which particles, energy, space, etc. may interact, we cannot simulate the aspects we do not yet know. Might this prevent us from simulating a human being sufficiently well? We don’t know. Furthermore, we do not know the degree to which our current understandings will be given a different light by future discoveries. A relatively minor nitpick regarding the video’s analogy is that to really simulate a human brain may require simulating the entire human body, and maybe (maybe) even some aspects of the environment. The reason being that a human brain not connected to a peripheral nervous system, hormonal/chemical system, and sensory input, may not behave in the same manner, even with the assumptions of full materialism and determinism. Consider “phantom limb” patients, and hormonal disorders, and recent discoveries regarding the effects of blue light exposure on hormones. Here’s a hypothetical: What if entities of sufficient informational complexity (and sufficient kinds of it) interact in ways and exhibit some properties that cannot be modeled accurately by any physical model of finite length. “If we believe that” then modeling a human being accurately would be impossible. Furthermore, due to said properties resulting from complexity, a machine built with sufficient complexity and structure to attempt the simulation might itself exhibit behavior impossible to model. I am not saying this is the case, I’m only saying we do not know it is false. Chaos theory and fractals: Given that we do not know if the universe is discrete, continuous, or some combination of those ideas, and we do not know how much of the universe is outside human perceptual bounds (for instance the disagreement in the numbers of dimensions in proposed physical models - they could hypothetically be infinite). Given this, there could hypothetically be unlimited complexity within a system that may appear “finite” to our perceptions. Combine this with implications of chaos theory, and again, some aspects of reality may not be possible to model, maybe particularly some aspects of living systems. Or maybe they could only be simulated by another living system. Again, I’m not saying this is true, I just want to emphasize the assumptions and handwaving that so often goes with claiming reality is this way or that. I realize that the video doesn't make a hardline statement one way or the other. Respect for that, but I think a lot of people understand intuitively that there is something off - even unscientific - about the reasoning toward the end, even if they don't know how to articulate it.
The point of video is not just to create and think about human simulation but to wonder about what makes us conscious. Is it the physics laws that fully governs our brain or it is we (a conscious being) on which physics laws don't work fully. If it is the physics laws, which governs the whole universe, governs our brains as well then that means our future is already determined. But then the concept of consciousness will be senseless.
Great comment! I like the hypothesis of consciousness being beyond a thershold of what can be modeled... That would settle all the debate around artificial consciousness: the paper brain or any other simulation would necesarily be a simplification and therefore not really conscious... It would also bring some comfort to ourselves... this whole idea of consciousness emerging from mere information is unsettling to me. But as you point out, nobody really knows...
@@marcosfraguela Indeed, we don't know. This line of thought emphasizes how far we are from even being able to tell whether a "true" artificial intelligence might be conscious. The "turing test" is pretty flimsy in this respect. Being fooled does not amount to knowledge. Knowing you are fooled is better, but only demonstrates your capability of being fooled and building something that can fool you. Just read some of people's emotional responses to such primitive chatbots and Jabberwacky and Cleverbot (or even earlier ones), or their more advanced cousin, Replika. I'm of the opinion that these systems produce emotional responses and a "feeling" of a mind more advanced that it really is because reading readable text of some kinds containing emotional references or "hooks" kicks in our 'theory of mind' processes. People "feel" a being behind the text and assume the maching is more sentient that it is, *or* they assume the machine is a lie and they are actually talking to another person. I mean, we could say that "ghosts" pass the turing test too. Certainly many previously sought comfort in various assumptions from which they derived the idea that AI would never be able to form speech or asociative connections or "think" in a seemingly human way. The GPT chatbot developments and other neural net breakthroughs have left those ideas in the past. So: On the one hand, our assumptions can blind us to the reality of what is possible, and on the other, they can blind us from seeing what IS, even if we have produced it ourselves. Unrecognized assumptions are an absolute enemy of scientific thought. Recognized assumptions are a necessary tool, but must be stated with honesty and used with respect for their immateriality. Unfortunately for our relationship with the real world, many scientists harbor assumptions which blind them - and us - to what is and could be. But I digress. I like to ramble about such things. I might have a chatbot stuck in me.
The brain simulation idea you propose was very thought provoking. I never really thought of it that way. Perhaps consciousness arises in part due to the strange nature and rules of quantum mechanics, and can only be achieved by the interaction of the physical particles that make up the brain. Who knows, there's really no sure fire way to measure consciousness.
A eye opening video, as all other videos in this channel. I am of the opinion that the notion of consciousness should be generalized. We don't understand it fully yet, but in principle, it should still be governed by the laws of physics
I'm convinced that everything(with enough factors and technology ) can be explained, including the human brain's response system. "probability" is just another word for ignorant guessing due to lack of enough variables. Many of us humans lack the discipline to realize where our thoughts and actions are truly coming from (culture, nutrition, current environment, etc. ) thus creating the illusion that the human brain can be seen as difficult to reverse engineer. This page rocks I love this stuff.
Mistercoryj Well no there is an inherent randomness due to quantum mechanics. Obviously there are actions that are most likely to be taken by the system but knowing the position and momentum of every particle in the universe in one instant does not at all allow you to know with certainty the position and momentum of every particle in the universe at any other time. That randomness doesn't at all necessitate "free will" or consiousness but it is random nonetheless
Another alternative is that the equations are just a way to see into anothers realities ? This option would be terrifying and beautiful at the same time. Just imagine all the possibilities...
I love these videos! Have recommended this channel on several occasions. Small hint: I need to significantly lower the treble or turn on a strong "de-esser". I find that the treble is particularly strong in at least some of your recent videos.
Can we get the answer to the Physics questions in JEE Main exam without solving them by doing a simulation in our mind? By training the brain in such a way as to read a question and then imagine its environment and create a simulation, find out the answer and tick the correct option.
Very thought provoking. Brain - Computer simulation - Paper and pencil simulation (and everything in-between these) This has to be a spectrum. It only starts bothering you when you think of consciousness as a weird entity that has no true interactions with the world.
I think the issue is the difference between simulating a "human brain" vs simulating a "human *mind*" now this seems arbitrary at first but where does the simulation end? In order to simulate a brain, you could make a brain in a jar which is a very particular state of consciousness, not to mention what stimulus is it receiving? How can you talk to it if it doesn't have ears? Or a mouth for tht matter. To simulate a mind you must simulate senses and stimuli for it to react to and ways for it to react to such stimuli For this reason we could produce many levels of simulated minds from brains in jars to full on consciousnesses within a relative system You could also go the AI route and produce reconstructions of human minds and personalities if trained on enough data though it would be difficult to say they are conscious as it would just be a guess and you could change peramaters to make the reconstructed personality not immediately freak out and just ignore that it is in a computer and converse with you in similar ways as the person might, but just through text or voice all the way to a virtual environment with the ability to interact but still the user would have total freedom over this person even turning the peramaters in such a way that it would simulate how the person might react to being tortured without actually torturing the person or any version of them as it is only a simulated reconstruction no different than pencil on paper as you brilliantly stated as an example of simulation. The difference comes between "simulated" minds and "digital minds" just because a simulated mind might give you a flawless reconstruction of a given individual in a given situation that doesn't mean they have to be conscious, just there has to be enough data, thud while a pencil and paper and enough data could give you the proper outcome of a given input through a conscious brain but you would never say it was conscious If you could simulate a digital environment that would result in a self aware being then there might be a chance that you have just created a digital 'person' who is just as deserving of a decent 'life' as any other so not only would it be easier but it might be more ethical to play around with these "lights are on but nobody is home" digital reconstructions beore we start creating and simulating thinking and potentially feeling digital, yet stil very muchl 'living' sentiant minds Edit: for clarity you can also go the AI reconstruction method to create or "construct" entirely unique and new "reconstructed minds" to fit whatever you wanted or just to see what it can make (think thispersondoesnotexist.com but instead of constructed photographs of nonexistent humans you could create an entire digital simulacra of one that could act indistinguishable from another human but that was 100% definitively NOT conscious (even if there would be no way to tell unless you knew how it was made, this gets a little dicey ethically but if there was a way to prove it was an AI construction and not a living being it definitely, by this definition would not be conscious of itself) provided you had the power and data to do so, I'm not sure it would actually be possible to do this as they may end up more like the "an AI wrote my script for me and this is what it wrote", just syntax and grammar without any actual meaning, but who knows until it happens really? Haha
13:35 It is not the paper that is conscious but the calculations being done by the paper and pencil. Saying the paper is conscious is like saying Carbon & Silicon are conscious (biological & artificial neurons).
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Asking whether the simulation of the brain has consciousness is like asking whether the simulation of the sun is hot. It depends what one means by “hot.” So the answer depends on what one means by the word “consciousness. “ If you define “conscious” as “identifying ioneself as conscious,” then yes, the simulation is conscious, and there is nothing odd about that.
one potential explanation is this : I believe that what makes you self aware is the unlimited recursive connection of brain output signals as new inputs, each round producing more abstract concepts until brain waves start to resonate (when the most abstract thinking possible is achieved and output signals start coming out similar to input signals ). Once that two or more resonating waves appear then they can start interacting in similar way, but now representing abstract concepts (the meanings rather than the words) . This interaction can then create "dialogs " between subsconscient processes from which self awareness ( in the sense of a "dialog with ourselves" ) can emerge. But for all this you need analog waves (EM fields) that can resonate and interact to start with. Maybe this could be possible with a special computer (ideally a Quantum computer, but possibly not necessary ), but never doing numbers in an inert paper. Doing it on paper is not the same, as the EM fields (and maybe other fields from QFT) would be a key aspect of this process and are not present on paper. Makes sense?
Fantastic video and great animation! The Oxford university mathematics professor Roger Penrose has a really interesting book on this topic of consciousness and brain simulation called shadows of the mind - highly recommend! He argues that metal processing is somehow non algorithmic, due to the fact that humans can in some sense step outside of the logical constraints of this kind of computing (he talks in particular about Godel's theorem and how a turning machine would approach this as opposed to a human). Thanks for another great video, I highly look forward to them! I'm a second year physicist and many of the topics you cover are relevant and help me to visualise and get a better intuition for things so thanks! 😊👍
Ok it’s been a year since I watched this and this video genuinely changed my life. It made me realize that my entire metaphysical view of reality was incoherent. Thanks for the upload!
Let's not forget about: - "Descartes' disease" - to predict everything by calculation; - measurement uncertainty; - particle-wave uncertainty. Her Majesty Probability reigns in all this. Thanks for the incredible videos! 😉
13:18 there is not paper outside of your brain. There is only the consciousness about it. And this consciousness is not inside your brain, because the way you see your brain or think about is just another form os consciousness(there is no physical world, there is only a form of consciousness we call physical), so the equations on the paper are just like that, another form of consciousness(because we can feel them, we can visualize it). And because there is no difference between ME, YOU and the PHYSICAL WORLD(it's all just consciousness) we can say that the paper with equations has consciousness, we are creating/feeling this consciousness.
Hey, i don't know if you realized, but your playlists have most of your videos in them regardless of what their title makes you think they'd contain. Also, your videos are really intuitive, really nice work.
+Maxflay3r, I created the playlists for my RUclips home page. Each row of the RUclips home page shows the first several videos in the playlist that I selected for that row. I therefore named each playlist accordingly for the home page. And thanks for the compliment about my videos. Thanks.
In my opinion the simulated brain is conscious, but consider that a brain doesn't exist in a vacuum. If you were to simulate a biological brain, you would have to supply it with nutrients and such, and more importantly, how would you translate the neurological behaviour into readable input/output? If you simulate a brain, you have to simulate a human body for it, and a world for the human to live in.
Can we accurately model systems governed by quantum physics on a classical computer or on paper? It seems that we cannot, which is why we are creating quantum computers. Does the brain, at the nano scale, possess quantum computing properties? If the answer is yes, it would imply two things: 1) It would be be much easier to explain why central nervous systems are such special objects in the universe, when compared to any other structure we know of. 2) It is impossible to simulate the brain using a classical physics computer.
people have already pointed out. but its the one whos doing the simulation. in case of paper, paper is not doing. its a human behind whos doing the calculations. but in case of a computer its done by a computer. so imo, they can't be compared. this actually bring to a great question. if as a human i can simulate another persons brain. what would that be called. before speaking actually, you can simulate.
all these simulations are based off the reaction of each item individually.. they need to have a variables, plus alot of these are missing the basic gravitational pull
When the objects in the simulation break, there's no energy transfer relevant to the structures depicted on the screen through to the embedded space. That's why your screen doesn't make a sound when the objects crash or suck your room in when a black hole is simulated..and why a piece of paper can think. These kinds of arguments conflate systems which enact relationships with systems which represent/approximate aspects of them.. it's another map vs. territory problem -- or physics as a body of knowledge vs. physics as the world we live in.
To me, a reasoning to believe artifical consciousness is possible is this: - if you measure all activity of just 1 neuron and then substitute it by an artificial one with the same functionality and I/O weights, is the brain still conscious and equally capable ? Obviously yes. - Repeat until n-1. Each step should maintain consciousness, as we are only substituting 1 neuron each time and preserving all data. - Substitute the last neuron. Fort he same reason It should be still conscious. And now you have a. 100% artificial brain -
It's awesome that you put the idea of increment of time, maybe that's why it would not be conscious, because the increment of time will never be small enough. It would be as conscious as a dissected brain, as a pictures of slices of a brain. That is unless the brain itself works with small increments of time.
I have a little add on for the accuracy of simulations. 1+0.000000000000001-1=0.000000000000001, but when you put it into a calculator you might get 0. If you put in 1-1+0.000000000000001 you'll correctly get 0.000000000000001. This is because when the computer goes to add 1 and 0.000000000000001 together it just ignores the smaller number because it feels it's insignificant. As you can see this can cause errors. A more accurate approach would be to add/subtract in the order of highest magnitude first. This get's around the problem.
Iv heard the brain simulation debate before but never heard it asked about pencil and paper, that is so Interesting to think about. Here’s something, to think about, if somehow the paper simulation was conscious, every experience it has would be dependent on another person writing things down, would the just paper be conscious? or would the whole system (ie. paper, pencil, other person writing) be part of that conscious.
Interesting to realize thaat a simulated brain would insist to say "I am self conscious". which demonstrate how meaningless that kind of statement really is. If the simulated brain would be a brain expert, it would not give too much a shit about how ordinary people perceive consciousness.
Every effect has a cause but it's not necessarily true that every cause has its own cause. Therefore, it's not necessarily true that everything that is governed by the laws of physics can be simulated.
The paper in the paper consciousness example doesn't have consciousness. The information within it though does have it. It's the same difference as between the brain and the mind. The brain is just the physical carrier for the mind which has consciousness. The questions asked later then become easy - the consciousness can indeed be simulated and the consciousness is entirely within the laws of physics.
I have read and watched alot about A.I. but I have never heard of that pencil and paper analogy, extremely interesting thought experiment. This suggests that even consciousness is nothing but information and probabilities if I understood it correctly? Thanks alot for this video
+niv skillsurf, glad you liked my video. I wasn't trying to suggest a specific conclusion about the nature of consciousness, but just trying to raise the question for people to think about.
+Physics Videos by Eugene Khutoryansky Yes I see, I chose the wrong words there. It's more like my personal conclusion to the analogy. Watching your videos for a while now, so I know you are not the type of person to suggest your personal beliefs in your videos, which I am very glad about by the way.
4:19 ah yes, because I constantly worry about how much my fragile purple stars will break my ceramic sponge statue that they are directly above (if they happened to fall out of the air they’re suspended in, of course). I’m so glad I know this now.
So what if somebody did the paper and pencil version first, then a lab cloned a brain to match it second? Is the brain a simulation of the original paper and pencil version?
It would not be the paper being conscious, no more than each brain cell is. it's not the media being conscious. it's the way the cells interact that create conscience. it's the formula, the results, the information contained in what is written down having conscience.
The problem is who wrote or think about this calculation at first, not the fact that it was written on a piece of paper , because when he stop writing the flow will stop too, so the paper could not reproduce another simulation by it self. in the other hand if we take (computer) as a calculator by it self, and gave it all the data (emotions-feelings-), and the computer produced an exact simulation of the brain, it will be considered as simulation of a mind in the past, because the human mind is changing while he interact with the environment, so we need to keep updating the computer every time, unless the computer started developing the data by it self and answer all the questions perfectly as the simulated person, it will be considered as perfect simulator to a human brain, but if the computer started to giving not wrong but different answer, then we can start thinking if we could call it an AI.
4:30 this is easy to simulate with school physics, its only hard because of lots of numbers, but with a computer its trivial. Its too easy when the object is already pre-fractured. I wanted to see rigid body deformation and failure lines dynamically created by the simulation, this would push anything to the limit, because the only way to do that is by simulating voxels of molecules, or entire molecules themselves. Someone please lend me some super-computer time-sharing time, I would like to test some ideas.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
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Nice work. I have never heard the argument that extended the computer simulation into the theoretical paper and pencil framework and that really got me thinking. Another job well done
Well if you print a movie you will have these calculations done on paper without any theory.
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+Robert Rodgers, thanks.
+Physics Videos by Eugene Khutoryansky Thank you for bringing up the idea of the possibility that physical law may govern the operation of the brain, I've tried to have a number of conversations with people about this exact idea with varying degrees of success.
+TheExaltedPheonix, No. I use "Poser" for all my 3D animations.
+TheExaltedPheonix, No. Poser is expensive. You can type "Poser" into Google, and you will get lots of information about it.
Nice video as always.
But I'm quite curious to know how you animated the physics of the animations.
Are the physics encoded in the program that you are using? Or do you do it manually?
In my opinion it implies that 'consciousness' is a construct, something invented by us. Not a real thing. A behavior of a system with sufficient complexity.
+Jaroslav Malec It's a very solid implication :)
+Jaroslav Malec Perhaps, but without "consciousness", could this question even be asked? Or does it simply imply that a system of sufficient complexity can begin to ask questions? At what point is it real, or artificial, awareness and/or consciousness? And most importantly, does it matter?
What? But it's clear that we are conscious. Consciousness could arise from matter, but I really wouldn't call it a construct. It's the most basic truth of reality.
BIngo. To think otherwise is extremely ego-centric.
"But it's clear that we are conscious. " It is as clear as the fact that the color red is red.
This channel is a great place for learning.
+gatto morto, thanks for the compliment.
Paper calculation returns a string:
"I am self-aware."
When simulating a brain, you also need to simulate inputs to the brain. In theory, this could be anything - you could "feed" the simulated brain anything from intensely pleasurable to intensely painful sensations. Is it, then, immoral to simulate intensely painful sensations with the pencil-and-paper simulated brain, essentially torturing it? Does this mean that it's immoral to solve certain math equations? And what if you don't simulate the painful sensations... the answers that the simulated brain *would* give to these painful sensations are the same, whether or not you go through the motions of writing the numbers down. Surely it can't be the case that by merely writing the equations/answers down you're torturing the simulated brain? After all, you're merely discovering answers that are already mathematically fixed!
+eugeneo1234 This is a brilliant comment! It touches on the whole question of whether equations as abstractions can actually represent realities that are as physically 'real' as our reality is to us. And it opens up the possibility that perhaps our own reality is nothing more than an abstraction, and feels real merely because we are embedded in it. The apparent moral paradox, by the way, disappears once you assume that morality is a relative and human concept, and therefore meaningless outside of human perspectives.
This sounds to me as a logical fallacy.
Is a philosopher philosophizing about the steak in his plate going to starve? Of course. Is the mathematical formula actually feeding you? Of course not. That's why we have to build machines like LHC.
So no, you won't be torturing anything unless you create a real brain based on these mathematical formula so...
I belive, that things that humans imagine (like solving the equation) are real only because atoms in our brains are doing some kind of movement (or some kind of computation) so there is no difference if the simulation is in the computer, on the paper or only in human brain - it is always some movement or exchange in energy in some elementary particles. And for the simulated brain to feel painful sensations time must go on. So you have to solve more than one equation. Also the equations are self-reffering(you need to know infomartion about previous frame each time) You cannot just solve one equation to know the future. So for the simulated brain to feel something I belive you must spend some time doing equations.
I think that basic assumption is that only brains are consious, what if brains are only most efficient in experiencing consiousness. Maybe some stones are experiencing reality in some way, but it takes them milions of years to feel what some brain can feel in one second (feel is not the right word, but i am not native english speaker) Same with the simulated brain, it can feel something but it takes it very long time.And what about ants? Whole anthill is made of little ants, just like brain is made of neurons. Can you say, that the anthill thinks, or feels something?
i think the human consience is an "sense" generated by billion and billion years of evolution and crossing genes, as the other fifth human senses. That's obvious it's a physical thing, but, nowadays, try to emulate this on computers is quite impossible.
This is still one of my favorite videos ever. I like coming back and rewatching it every so often. Really fun to think about this idea and to reflect on it.
Thanks.
Of course the alternative conclusion is that we are as consious and self aware as a piece of paper
or, instead of concluding that the paper is conscious, conclude that the equations themselves are.
therefore:
potatoes
thats more or less nihilistic believe
it depends on the definition of consciousness, if we add the sense of time as proprety of conscious systems, then the simulation on the piece of paper isnt really conscious since its a static system.
it is not true because according to quantum mechanics when we will write the equations we would not get a particular solution instead we would get various solutions with certain probabilities and thus it would not be conscious. And one more think that I think is that we can't exactly copy the actual brain because of some uncertanities
Maybe, we just created the idea of conciousness because we feel different from other beings, but it's just a concept that doesn't exist in reality.
Yes, humans are ego-centric like that. Remember we used to think the universe revolved around *us*.
Weed
Consciousness exists undoubtedly, everyone can test it for themselves. What doesn't exist is the self.
@@Erzmann255 consciousness must obviously exist because if you take the entire universe as an entangled single particle interfering with itself, something must be measuring it and making it collapse, or perhaps every universe possible just exists, still we only experience 1 of them, still yet there's something measuring just one.
@@monad_tcp It doesn't need an observer to collapse
Ohh my god congratulations best video on youtube ever in my opinion. such a good work. I'm a physics undergraduate student for many years i've wanted to do computer science since i was 11, i done programming from that age until now, and i got interested in physics because of the simulations, wonderfully tailored simulations done with very rich algorithms in C++ but i never ever ever thought of the idea you proposed in the end about consciousness. Absolutely amazing and beautiful, Thank you for this fantastic and insightful video!
+darkdevil905, thanks for that really great compliment on my video.
This was actually interesting! One of the best videos yet
+Imaad siddiqui, thanks.
Your analogy with pen and paper makes me doubt that my consciousness is anything more than an illusion.
I like the way you choose words. It's very informative and provoking thoughts. You understand your material very well and is a master at choosing English words to explain the concept!
Because the real world is continuous and the computer is discrete, speaking about constant velocity over a short period of time is really important.
+Chanchana Sornsoontorn (Off) Real world is actually also discrete at the quantum level.
To be honest, we're already done the simulating the human brain on papers by word written on it. It's just a different construct that we could used to "simulate" the feeling and meaning the one that write it want to converse. There's also the notion that literature is alive and all.
IBM is doing this by creating a computer that simulates the human brain by simulating individual neurons and letting the entire program "run."
Your videos are really great, because they help visualize something you often just see as equations on paper. I myself am a very visual person, so these kinds of images help me tremendously. I hope you keep making these videos and in fact I wish I were rich so I could fund more videos like these. I think that there should be a free university online where the best educators create content for people free of charge. Anyone interested in learning these things could then watch videos with lectures, simulations like the ones you provide and even with equations that explain how these things work. I think if there was a way to show the calculations that go into this, it would be a worthwhile endeavor.
The wealthiest people in the world should all pitch in and help create such a resource. It would allow many who might either not live near schools or who just cannot afford school to learn everything needed in order to find work not only in scientific fields, but in all fields of study. The things you are doing are invaluable, but I can only imagine how much better the videos could be along with having the equations being represented and explained if you had more money and people to help you with the creation of these RUclips videos. Either way I want to thank you for all the work you put into this, because frankly I know you are doing it because you want more people to understand how our world works and that alone is an amazing gift to all people everywhere.
Thanks for the compliment about my work. I am glad that you like my videos that much, and more are on their way. Thanks.
This went from "cool physics concept" to full on existential crisis way too quickly
You are amazing Eugene. I have learned a lot with your videos. Thank you.
+Victor Riesco, thanks.
Professor Khutoryansky, could you tell me if possible please what was the music used in the last part of the video? Is it from youtube audio library? Does anyone know? (I know I am a bit crazy about instrumental music !!!) I mean the music that begins from 10:50...
All the music in this video is from the free RUclips audio library, and the names of the songs are the following.
Hungarian_Rhapsody_No_2_by_Liszt
Stale Mate
@@EugeneKhutoryansky Respected Professor, I can't thank you enough for your reply. I am really grateful to you. And as usual, I definitely will try my best to earn you as many subscribers as possible! You deserve it, and more!
Very fascinating with the paper example. I'm writing a book on AI and the philosophy and ethics of it. One useful concept is the "pattern machine" concept. Given a large function with large inputs, could a computer use one to simulate all of the "correct answers" for a consciousness test. But since it is a pattern machine, would it hold any consciousness, and could we really tell the difference? Could we be pattern machines?
You're welcome for the existential crisis if you are reading this.
I wonder if I could ask for your thoughts on my main post to the video which I think goes in a similar direction to your thoughts. Also, any word on the book? Sounds like it could be interesting.
Another Awesome video! Systems of simple things forming more complicated systems are quite common in nature but not understood very well. Neurons in the brain, cells in the body, ants in a colony, people in society, computers in the internet. The individuals play a part in the overall processes but their individual actions are limited. The universe is just layered systems of complexity, possibly with consciousness being the most.
11:12 "If we believe that a brain is composed of atoms and molecules behaving according to the laws of physics, simulating a human brain should theoretically be no different than simulating any other physical system, provided we had sufficient computing power."
This is an assumption which has a lot of packed complexity. Part of that complexity is composed of unknowns, and a common problem with arguments of this kind is a failure to acknowledge these unknowns (or even the fact that assumptions are being made).
For instance, if we do not yet know all of the ways in which particles, energy, space, etc. may interact, we cannot simulate the aspects we do not yet know. Might this prevent us from simulating a human being sufficiently well? We don’t know. Furthermore, we do not know the degree to which our current understandings will be given a different light by future discoveries.
A relatively minor nitpick regarding the video’s analogy is that to really simulate a human brain may require simulating the entire human body, and maybe (maybe) even some aspects of the environment. The reason being that a human brain not connected to a peripheral nervous system, hormonal/chemical system, and sensory input, may not behave in the same manner, even with the assumptions of full materialism and determinism. Consider “phantom limb” patients, and hormonal disorders, and recent discoveries regarding the effects of blue light exposure on hormones.
Here’s a hypothetical: What if entities of sufficient informational complexity (and sufficient kinds of it) interact in ways and exhibit some properties that cannot be modeled accurately by any physical model of finite length. “If we believe that” then modeling a human being accurately would be impossible. Furthermore, due to said properties resulting from complexity, a machine built with sufficient complexity and structure to attempt the simulation might itself exhibit behavior impossible to model. I am not saying this is the case, I’m only saying we do not know it is false.
Chaos theory and fractals: Given that we do not know if the universe is discrete, continuous, or some combination of those ideas, and we do not know how much of the universe is outside human perceptual bounds (for instance the disagreement in the numbers of dimensions in proposed physical models - they could hypothetically be infinite). Given this, there could hypothetically be unlimited complexity within a system that may appear “finite” to our perceptions. Combine this with implications of chaos theory, and again, some aspects of reality may not be possible to model, maybe particularly some aspects of living systems. Or maybe they could only be simulated by another living system.
Again, I’m not saying this is true, I just want to emphasize the assumptions and handwaving that so often goes with claiming reality is this way or that. I realize that the video doesn't make a hardline statement one way or the other. Respect for that, but I think a lot of people understand intuitively that there is something off - even unscientific - about the reasoning toward the end, even if they don't know how to articulate it.
11:11 !
@@Skynet_the_AI Hehe, I didn't even notice. Dodged that bullet, didn't I? :P
The point of video is not just to create and think about human simulation but to wonder about what makes us conscious. Is it the physics laws that fully governs our brain or it is we (a conscious being) on which physics laws don't work fully. If it is the physics laws, which governs the whole universe, governs our brains as well then that means our future is already determined. But then the concept of consciousness will be senseless.
Great comment! I like the hypothesis of consciousness being beyond a thershold of what can be modeled... That would settle all the debate around artificial consciousness: the paper brain or any other simulation would necesarily be a simplification and therefore not really conscious... It would also bring some comfort to ourselves... this whole idea of consciousness emerging from mere information is unsettling to me. But as you point out, nobody really knows...
@@marcosfraguela Indeed, we don't know. This line of thought emphasizes how far we are from even being able to tell whether a "true" artificial intelligence might be conscious. The "turing test" is pretty flimsy in this respect. Being fooled does not amount to knowledge. Knowing you are fooled is better, but only demonstrates your capability of being fooled and building something that can fool you. Just read some of people's emotional responses to such primitive chatbots and Jabberwacky and Cleverbot (or even earlier ones), or their more advanced cousin, Replika. I'm of the opinion that these systems produce emotional responses and a "feeling" of a mind more advanced that it really is because reading readable text of some kinds containing emotional references or "hooks" kicks in our 'theory of mind' processes. People "feel" a being behind the text and assume the maching is more sentient that it is, *or* they assume the machine is a lie and they are actually talking to another person. I mean, we could say that "ghosts" pass the turing test too.
Certainly many previously sought comfort in various assumptions from which they derived the idea that AI would never be able to form speech or asociative connections or "think" in a seemingly human way. The GPT chatbot developments and other neural net breakthroughs have left those ideas in the past.
So: On the one hand, our assumptions can blind us to the reality of what is possible, and on the other, they can blind us from seeing what IS, even if we have produced it ourselves.
Unrecognized assumptions are an absolute enemy of scientific thought. Recognized assumptions are a necessary tool, but must be stated with honesty and used with respect for their immateriality. Unfortunately for our relationship with the real world, many scientists harbor assumptions which blind them - and us - to what is and could be.
But I digress. I like to ramble about such things. I might have a chatbot stuck in me.
The brain simulation idea you propose was very thought provoking. I never really thought of it that way. Perhaps consciousness arises in part due to the strange nature and rules of quantum mechanics, and can only be achieved by the interaction of the physical particles that make up the brain. Who knows, there's really no sure fire way to measure consciousness.
+Eddie Miller yet
A eye opening video, as all other videos in this channel. I am of the opinion that the notion of consciousness should be generalized. We don't understand it fully yet, but in principle, it should still be governed by the laws of physics
where's the cat? i miss kitty
+Seduction Science, he is in this video briefly.
@10:39
I read 10:29 instead of 10:39 and slow it to see, where the cat is running around... :D
This video was very intuitive and eye opening. Thanks for the information.
+Junior Gon, glad you liked it. Thanks.
mindblown
I'm convinced that everything(with enough factors and technology ) can be explained, including the human brain's response system. "probability" is just another word for ignorant guessing due to lack of enough variables. Many of us humans lack the discipline to realize where our thoughts and actions are truly coming from (culture, nutrition, current environment, etc. ) thus creating the illusion that the human brain can be seen as difficult to reverse engineer. This page rocks I love this stuff.
Mistercoryj Well no there is an inherent randomness due to quantum mechanics. Obviously there are actions that are most likely to be taken by the system but knowing the position and momentum of every particle in the universe in one instant does not at all allow you to know with certainty the position and momentum of every particle in the universe at any other time.
That randomness doesn't at all necessitate "free will" or consiousness but it is random nonetheless
Well explained and really thought provoking, one of your best video to date! :)
+pourliver, thanks. Glad you liked it.
I do not say this often, but the last bit blow my mind!
the animations are so beautiful
Amazing video. You deserve a lot more subscribers.
+Ulises Landázuri, thanks.
Another alternative is that the equations are just a way to see into anothers realities ? This option would be terrifying and beautiful at the same time. Just imagine all the possibilities...
I love these videos! Have recommended this channel on several occasions.
Small hint: I need to significantly lower the treble or turn on a strong "de-esser". I find that the treble is particularly strong in at least some of your recent videos.
Can we get the answer to the Physics questions in JEE Main exam without solving them by doing a simulation in our mind? By training the brain in such a way as to read a question and then imagine its environment and create a simulation, find out the answer and tick the correct option.
One of the best videos I have seen in a while. You really got me thinking now
+Scial, thanks. I am glad you liked my video and that it was thought provoking.
Most progress in getting answers is found in well-formulating the questions.
These videos continue to be great at sparking interest in these fields. Keep up the great work.
+DraconicDon, thanks.
Very thought provoking.
Brain - Computer simulation - Paper and pencil simulation (and everything in-between these)
This has to be a spectrum. It only starts bothering you when you think of consciousness as a weird entity that has no true interactions with the world.
Ok, that blew my mind. Conscious paper... Hmmm
I’m a teacher in college and show your videos to my students all the time.
Hey!! here is your new subscriber. Really glad to find this channel this will ensure a bright future to me...
Tons of love❤❤❤🔥🔥🔥
Glad to have you as a subscriber.
I think the issue is the difference between simulating a "human brain" vs simulating a "human *mind*" now this seems arbitrary at first but where does the simulation end? In order to simulate a brain, you could make a brain in a jar which is a very particular state of consciousness, not to mention what stimulus is it receiving? How can you talk to it if it doesn't have ears? Or a mouth for tht matter.
To simulate a mind you must simulate senses and stimuli for it to react to and ways for it to react to such stimuli
For this reason we could produce many levels of simulated minds from brains in jars to full on consciousnesses within a relative system
You could also go the AI route and produce reconstructions of human minds and personalities if trained on enough data though it would be difficult to say they are conscious as it would just be a guess and you could change peramaters to make the reconstructed personality not immediately freak out and just ignore that it is in a computer and converse with you in similar ways as the person might, but just through text or voice all the way to a virtual environment with the ability to interact but still the user would have total freedom over this person even turning the peramaters in such a way that it would simulate how the person might react to being tortured without actually torturing the person or any version of them as it is only a simulated reconstruction no different than pencil on paper as you brilliantly stated as an example of simulation.
The difference comes between "simulated" minds and "digital minds" just because a simulated mind might give you a flawless reconstruction of a given individual in a given situation that doesn't mean they have to be conscious, just there has to be enough data, thud while a pencil and paper and enough data could give you the proper outcome of a given input through a conscious brain but you would never say it was conscious
If you could simulate a digital environment that would result in a self aware being then there might be a chance that you have just created a digital 'person' who is just as deserving of a decent 'life' as any other so not only would it be easier but it might be more ethical to play around with these "lights are on but nobody is home" digital reconstructions beore we start creating and simulating thinking and potentially feeling digital, yet stil very muchl 'living' sentiant minds
Edit: for clarity you can also go the AI reconstruction method to create or "construct" entirely unique and new "reconstructed minds" to fit whatever you wanted or just to see what it can make (think thispersondoesnotexist.com but instead of constructed photographs of nonexistent humans you could create an entire digital simulacra of one that could act indistinguishable from another human but that was 100% definitively NOT conscious (even if there would be no way to tell unless you knew how it was made, this gets a little dicey ethically but if there was a way to prove it was an AI construction and not a living being it definitely, by this definition would not be conscious of itself) provided you had the power and data to do so, I'm not sure it would actually be possible to do this as they may end up more like the "an AI wrote my script for me and this is what it wrote", just syntax and grammar without any actual meaning, but who knows until it happens really? Haha
13:35 It is not the paper that is conscious but the calculations being done by the paper and pencil. Saying the paper is conscious is like saying Carbon & Silicon are conscious (biological & artificial neurons).
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Thanks.
Asking whether the simulation of the brain has consciousness is like asking whether the simulation of the sun is hot. It depends what one means by “hot.” So the answer depends on what one means by the word “consciousness. “ If you define “conscious” as “identifying ioneself as conscious,” then yes, the simulation is conscious, and there is nothing odd about that.
one potential explanation is this : I believe that what makes you self aware is the unlimited recursive connection of brain output signals as new inputs, each round producing more abstract concepts until brain waves start to resonate (when the most abstract thinking possible is achieved and output signals start coming out similar to input signals ). Once that two or more resonating waves appear then they can start interacting in similar way, but now representing abstract concepts (the meanings rather than the words) . This interaction can then create "dialogs " between subsconscient processes from which self awareness ( in the sense of a "dialog with ourselves" ) can emerge. But for all this you need analog waves (EM fields) that can resonate and interact to start with. Maybe this could be possible with a special computer (ideally a Quantum computer, but possibly not necessary ), but never doing numbers in an inert paper. Doing it on paper is not the same, as the EM fields (and maybe other fields from QFT) would be a key aspect of this process and are not present on paper. Makes sense?
Fantastic video and great animation! The Oxford university mathematics professor Roger Penrose has a really interesting book on this topic of consciousness and brain simulation called shadows of the mind - highly recommend! He argues that metal processing is somehow non algorithmic, due to the fact that humans can in some sense step outside of the logical constraints of this kind of computing (he talks in particular about Godel's theorem and how a turning machine would approach this as opposed to a human). Thanks for another great video, I highly look forward to them! I'm a second year physicist and many of the topics you cover are relevant and help me to visualise and get a better intuition for things so thanks! 😊👍
+Nickelnine37, thanks. I am glad you like my videos.
Ok it’s been a year since I watched this and this video genuinely changed my life. It made me realize that my entire metaphysical view of reality was incoherent. Thanks for the upload!
I am glad my video made such an impact. Thanks.
care to share your entire metaphysical view of reality
Awesome video, I totally agree with everything you said.
Thanks.
Eugene you're brilliant. Beautiful use of computer graphics and slow, well thought out explanations.
Thanks for the compliment.
u are awesome..
+Jax Amilius, thanks.
Let's not forget about:
- "Descartes' disease" - to predict everything by calculation;
- measurement uncertainty;
- particle-wave uncertainty.
Her Majesty Probability reigns in all this.
Thanks for the incredible videos!
😉
Thanks!
One of the best videos so far! I love it,
+Asen Georgiev, Glad you liked it. Thanks.
I love that you exist, your videos are amazing
+Anon Ymous, thanks and I am glad that you like my videos.
13:18 there is not paper outside of your brain. There is only the consciousness about it. And this consciousness is not inside your brain, because the way you see your brain or think about is just another form os consciousness(there is no physical world, there is only a form of consciousness we call physical), so the equations on the paper are just like that, another form of consciousness(because we can feel them, we can visualize it). And because there is no difference between ME, YOU and the PHYSICAL WORLD(it's all just consciousness) we can say that the paper with equations has consciousness, we are creating/feeling this consciousness.
I really like your videos, they keep me interested in physics and made me want to study engineering. Thanks for your work!
Thanks. I am glad that you like my videos, and that they make you interested in studying engineering.
Hey, i don't know if you realized, but your playlists have most of your videos in them regardless of what their title makes you think they'd contain.
Also, your videos are really intuitive, really nice work.
+Maxflay3r, I created the playlists for my RUclips home page. Each row of the RUclips home page shows the first several videos in the playlist that I selected for that row. I therefore named each playlist accordingly for the home page. And thanks for the compliment about my videos. Thanks.
You rock. All of your videos are well explained and easy to understand.
+Niyoko Yuliawan, thanks for the compliment about my videos.
Wow, this video is INCREDIBLE. Thank you, the team who made this video. This video actually kinda proves that AI can dominate human in the future.
Another hard dose of knowledge, thank you so much Mr. Eugene
Thanks.
In my opinion the simulated brain is conscious, but consider that a brain doesn't exist in a vacuum. If you were to simulate a biological brain, you would have to supply it with nutrients and such, and more importantly, how would you translate the neurological behaviour into readable input/output? If you simulate a brain, you have to simulate a human body for it, and a world for the human to live in.
this merely replicates something that would happen in real life so while it may appear so it is not conscious
You are doing gods work. donating to your patreon.
I very much appreciate your donation. And thanks for the compliment.
Can we accurately model systems governed by quantum physics on a classical computer or on paper? It seems that we cannot, which is why we are creating quantum computers. Does the brain, at the nano scale, possess quantum computing properties?
If the answer is yes, it would imply two things:
1) It would be be much easier to explain why central nervous systems are such special objects in the universe, when compared to any other structure we know of.
2) It is impossible to simulate the brain using a classical physics computer.
people have already pointed out.
but its the one whos doing the simulation. in case of paper, paper is not doing. its a human behind whos doing the calculations.
but in case of a computer its done by a computer.
so imo, they can't be compared.
this actually bring to a great question. if as a human i can simulate another persons brain. what would that be called. before speaking actually, you can simulate.
all these simulations are based off the reaction of each item individually.. they need to have a variables, plus alot of these are missing the basic gravitational pull
When the objects in the simulation break, there's no energy transfer relevant to the structures depicted on the screen through to the embedded space. That's why your screen doesn't make a sound when the objects crash or suck your room in when a black hole is simulated..and why a piece of paper can think.
These kinds of arguments conflate systems which enact relationships with systems which represent/approximate aspects of them.. it's another map vs. territory problem -- or physics as a body of knowledge vs. physics as the world we live in.
Thank-you for this amazing video.
Glad you liked my video.
To me, a reasoning to believe artifical consciousness is possible is this:
- if you measure all activity of just 1 neuron and then substitute it by an artificial one with the same functionality and I/O weights, is the brain still conscious and equally capable ? Obviously yes.
- Repeat until n-1. Each step should maintain consciousness, as we are only substituting 1 neuron each time and preserving all data.
- Substitute the last neuron. Fort he same reason It should be still conscious. And now you have a. 100% artificial brain
-
I bet you never studied biology
It's awesome that you put the idea of increment of time, maybe that's why it would not be conscious, because the increment of time will never be small enough. It would be as conscious as a dissected brain, as a pictures of slices of a brain.
That is unless the brain itself works with small increments of time.
711 was a part time job.
I have a little add on for the accuracy of simulations.
1+0.000000000000001-1=0.000000000000001, but when you put it into a calculator you might get 0. If you put in 1-1+0.000000000000001 you'll correctly get 0.000000000000001. This is because when the computer goes to add 1 and 0.000000000000001 together it just ignores the smaller number because it feels it's insignificant. As you can see this can cause errors. A more accurate approach would be to add/subtract in the order of highest magnitude first. This get's around the problem.
+Laff700, thanks. That is a good point.
Physics Videos by Eugene Khutoryansky You're welcome. I realized it when it started causing issues in my physics simulation.
@10:19 does that include things like Runge-Kutta methods
Iv heard the brain simulation debate before but never heard it asked about pencil and paper, that is so Interesting to think about. Here’s something, to think about, if somehow the paper simulation was conscious, every experience it has would be dependent on another person writing things down, would the just paper be conscious? or would the whole system (ie. paper, pencil, other person writing) be part of that conscious.
I love thinking about this issue. 2 bad I won't live to a day we know better. Today we are like in a stoneage regarding this stuff.
Phenomenal... as always Eugene
Thanks.
Another great video!
Thanks for sharing :-)
+Humberto Martins Ferreira Junior, thanks. I am glad you liked my video.
please make video on finite element analysis. how it works.how computer does calculation behind.material mathematical behaviour.
Interesting to realize thaat a simulated brain would insist to say "I am self conscious". which demonstrate how meaningless that kind of statement really is.
If the simulated brain would be a brain expert, it would not give too much a shit about how ordinary people perceive consciousness.
I know!
Like the graphics,, wish volume of background music was mixed lower in some vids
Your videos are amazing and sooth my brain.
Thanks.
This got deeper than I expected.
Every effect has a cause but it's not necessarily true that every cause has its own cause. Therefore, it's not necessarily true that everything that is governed by the laws of physics can be simulated.
The paper in the paper consciousness example doesn't have consciousness. The information within it though does have it. It's the same difference as between the brain and the mind. The brain is just the physical carrier for the mind which has consciousness. The questions asked later then become easy - the consciousness can indeed be simulated and the consciousness is entirely within the laws of physics.
THIS CHANNEL IS JUST GREAT.
I have read and watched alot about A.I. but I have never heard of that pencil and paper analogy, extremely interesting thought experiment. This suggests that even consciousness is nothing but information and probabilities if I understood it correctly? Thanks alot for this video
+niv skillsurf, glad you liked my video. I wasn't trying to suggest a specific conclusion about the nature of consciousness, but just trying to raise the question for people to think about.
+Physics Videos by Eugene Khutoryansky Yes I see, I chose the wrong words there. It's more like my personal conclusion to the analogy.
Watching your videos for a while now, so I know you are not the type of person to suggest your personal beliefs in your videos, which I am very glad about by the way.
Amazing video, especially the idea of the handicraft simulation of a brain... My vote: its conciousness is 100% legit.
4:19 ah yes, because I constantly worry about how much my fragile purple stars will break my ceramic sponge statue that they are directly above (if they happened to fall out of the air they’re suspended in, of course). I’m so glad I know this now.
So what if somebody did the paper and pencil version first, then a lab cloned a brain to match it second? Is the brain a simulation of the original paper and pencil version?
It would not be the paper being conscious, no more than each brain cell is.
it's not the media being conscious.
it's the way the cells interact that create conscience.
it's the formula, the results, the information contained in what is written down having conscience.
all your videos are just awesome !
+cristi3141592653, thanks.
The problem is who wrote or think about this calculation at first, not the fact that it was written on a piece of paper , because when he stop writing the flow will stop too, so the paper could not reproduce another simulation by it self. in the other hand if we take (computer) as a calculator by it self, and gave it all the data (emotions-feelings-), and the computer produced an exact simulation of the brain, it will be considered as simulation of a mind in the past, because the human mind is changing while he interact with the environment, so we need to keep updating the computer every time, unless the computer started developing the data by it self and answer all the questions perfectly as the simulated person, it will be considered as perfect simulator to a human brain, but if the computer started to giving not wrong but different answer, then we can start thinking if we could call it an AI.
this channal is really awsome.....many concepts of physics made easy..
Thanks.
This would all be good to know, in order to deflect an incoming asteroid?
4:30 this is easy to simulate with school physics, its only hard because of lots of numbers, but with a computer its trivial. Its too easy when the object is already pre-fractured. I wanted to see rigid body deformation and failure lines dynamically created by the simulation, this would push anything to the limit, because the only way to do that is by simulating voxels of molecules, or entire molecules themselves. Someone please lend me some super-computer time-sharing time, I would like to test some ideas.
I think this is one of your best videos to date, Eugene. I'll be sure to share it with my friends.
+TheBlundert4ker, thanks. I am glad you liked my video, and thanks for sharing it with your friends.
Id like to say that this highlights the fundamental problem of conciseness well
Thanks.
People with OCD will be loving this.