@@_Matsimus_ The ZSU-52 was developed from the WW2 German 5.5 cm/77 (2.17") Gerät 58 which the Soviet captured after WW2. This used remotely aimed computer aimed 55mm guns. It never entered service but several were built. No one in WW2 managed to get a 50-57mm gun into service. The effect of gun flash and smoke on the gunner was to much. Smokeless and flashless propellant's helped but was not enough. The solution was to aim and range remotely and aim by electronic/electro mechanical computers similar to FLAK/AAA predictors used for larger guns till then. These tracked the target, calculated a firing solution and compensated for parallax between gun and optics. -The 5.5 cm/77 (2.17") Gerät 58 actually came out of the Dambusters raid where German 2.0cm guns had damaged and even shot down Lancaster but had lacked the destructive power to stop the Lancaster. 55mm was needed to bring down a 4 engines bomber with a single shot.
In the 70's and 80's I was in TOW Missile units. Our main targets in the Fulda Gap were the ZSU-23-4, any tank with multiple antennas, and the ZSU-57-2.
@@VikingTeddy In combat mode, the driver's hatch must be closed, and driving under periscopes is a real horror. I know because in 1986 I was a ZSU-57/2 driver in the JNA.
Spoke to a Finnish army officer who said they would include these in live fire exercises back in the 80's simply because they made a tremendous amount of noise and were great fun to watch.
On paper I’d have to say the Tunguska would be my favorite SPAAG. Tracked, two twin-barreled 30mm gast type auto-cannons and 8 ready to fire missiles. Radar controlled with optical back-up for the 30mm’s.
Having served on a ZSU 23-4, thats my favourite. At the time (1985) the 57-2 was not in service anymore in East Germany. I remember a colonel talking about the old times, how beautiful it looked when two tracer 57mm shells arced through the air. I still own an empty 57mm brass casing.
During the 1st Gulf War this and the Shilka were used not only for AAA, but also for anti-armor. This is the SKS of the AAA world. And I love the SKS!!!
If you go to Parola tank museum in Finland, there's a tank turret which has been test fired with this. And gone nicely through from the back. I think you can see that turret in Chieftains quick walk around video.
One thing that we need to keep in mind here is the timing. This came into service in 1957, when the best SPAAG in "Western" service was still the M42 Duster, to which this was definitely superior, but the rate of improvement in aircraft (especially speed) was just astonishing and AAA had a lot to catch up to. The first SPAAG to surpass the Sparka's AA capabilities was the Czechoslovak M53/57 Ješterka, which traded the long-range performance and destructive power of twin 57 mm for the RoF and other benefits of twin 30 mm, which was mounted (dismountable) on a 6x6 wheeled chassis derived from Praga V3S truck - an off-road legend of Eastern Bloc. Only in the middle of 1960s have these SPAAGs gotten surpassed by M163 VADS and ZSU-23-4 Shilka, ending their quite short stay on the top of the ladder. Add a decade more and we see the introduction of Flakpanzer Gepard and only then development started on the M247 Sergeant York, where the use of M48 Patton hull was the case of giving outdated equipment a new life, rather than parts commonality like in case of ZSU-57-2 and T-54/55. This is IMHO far too big stretch for a fair comparison (York vs Sparka), but given similar quality FCS with radar guidance and proximity-fuzed-shells, the twin 57 mm would be superior (to twin 40 mm L70), because its range and explosive power advantages remain, while the RoF advantage (~2x in this case) of the lower calibre matter a lot less when you don't need to achieve a direct hit. Incorporating such changes to the ZSU-57-2 would be so radical, however, that the result would be a whole new vehicle, even though the powertrain and chassis (maybe add back the pair of wheels) could easily handle the increased weight and still keep up with latest Soviet MBTs, but the update for parts commonality would be logical even there. The AZP S-60 (towed carriage with the same gun) was designed to be operated in groups of 4 with a radar & fire control station guiding the whole group using wired connection, but I haven't seen any reference suggesting that ZSU-57-2 could hook up to this radar and even if it could, it'd only be feasible when stationary. I honestly think that the need for defense against aerial threats like helicopters, drones, loitering and smart ammunitions has a logical conclusion in SPAAs on chassis (/platform) of MBTs that they'll be integrated with on platoon level (e.g. 4 MBTs + 2 SPAAs), so that they're close enough to respond in time (much closer than any in-service SPAAG), and will be armed with 35-60 mm (maybe up to 76 mm like OTOMATIC, but that's starting to get too heavy) autocannon with proximity/programmable-fuzed shells (& APFSDS for armored ground targets) and quick-responding FCS, with IR and/or radar, capable of acquiring, identifying and engaging these (mostly) new threats. Although laser-based weapons may be an interesing option for them, I don't think they're versatile enough to be primary armament for this role, but maybe I'm wrong and there'll be a lazer powerful enough to destroy these threats in time. Inclusion of MANPADS is possible, but the added effective range wouldn't be very significant for 57-60 mm guns, while being useless against most of the new threats. IMHO this kind of SPAA would be much better place for platoon's commander and/or (recon) drone operator than what Rheinmetall is proposing with their new Panther KF51. ...what does this have to do with ZSU-57-2? This is the equivalent of what the ZSU-57-2's intended role was, but adjusted to requirements of modern battlefield - smarter, tougher, faster, closer.
This is my favorite AA system. I think it stems from when I use to play Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction, and it was the largest vehicle you could have dropped in. I would sit atop a hill side and hammer enemy ground forces with it much like the U.S. did in Vietnam with the M42 Duster; which happens to be the other SPAA system i like. I guess i have a thing for large caliber auto cannon systems.
Mercenaries was an amazing game, played it fairly recently using backwards compatibility on the Xbox One. My god, the hilarious animations when hijacking vehicles (real life vehicles usually, very accurately modelled) where the character jumps on top of the barrel or clambers all over Tanks etc. Amazing animation work for a PS2/original Xbox game.
ZSU-57-2 was just a stop gap solution until newer and better SPAAA appeared and it turned out to be ZSU-23/4. Yugoslav army bought a certain number of ZSU-57-2 but for newer AAA decided to get Bofors with Giraffe radar. However, during Yugoslav wars in the 1990s, ZSU-57-2 was used for attack on ground targets and it has proven itself to be devastating in that role.
I still think the Otomatic was one of the most impressive SPAAGs in modern history. And just imagine how much better it would be with 20+ years of upgrades.
-Western Nations foolishly eliminated whole layers of defenses to save money. SPAAG's and SHORAD were completely eliminated. They thought they could rely only on fighter jets and some medium range or long range SAM. -Airburst round Guns whether 30, 35, 57 or 76 are now the only way to deal with drones and cruise missile cost effectively. They'll handle a shahad easily but will need new radar etc for micro drones. -The Italian 76mm gun can now not only fire proximity fused rounds but DART guided munitions and Vulkano 76 GPS rounds to 50km.
@@williamzk9083 The US never eliminated SHORAD, though I do think it was a mistake abandoning that double barrel 40mm SPAAG since it had proximity fused shells which would have been very useful. maybe the new 50mm bushmaster could be used in a SHORAD role in the near future, I could see a different turret attached to the top of the M10 Booker utilizing a radar and the 50mm with proxy fuse shells.
@@dominuslogik484 The US does not have SHORAD now. It has MANPADs which have 1/3rd the range. Agree with everything else you say. All these guns will work if they have the correct radar and sensors to handle micro drones, air-burst or guided ammunition such as MADFIRES
@@williamzk9083 The US does have SHORAD, the Stryker SHORAD entered service in 2020 to replace the Avenger system on the Humvee. "The Army also ordered Stryker SHORAD platform, equipped with four Stinger and two AGM-114L Longbow Hellfire missiles, 30 mm M230 chain gun, 7.62 M240 machine gun, and a 360-degree search radar system. First vehicles were delivered in 2021, and a total of 144 vehicles will be deployed by 2025." we may not have a lot of them at the moment but we are not directly involved in any major conflicts at the moment so they are taking their time with procurement. there is also the Stryker DE SHORAD which Raytheon developed and is equipped with a 50Kw laser for Air defense and 2 were delivered this year for crew training. the laser is for countering group 1-3 UAS (unmanned aerial systems) and has been proven to be able to intercept slower moving projectiles such as mortar shells.
@@williamzk9083The U.S. never gave up SHORAD, it was the Avenger system on a Humvee for a while. Now its the Stryker M SHORAD. Do some basic research before spewing more garbage.
During a SIFT style practice test about apache flight operations, the instructor threw one of these up to defend a high ground position. Memorable experience. I flew in below it's depression limits, spun up it's side and hit it with an IR missile and kept pushing onto the objective. Wingman did the same and we executed the mission like he wasn't there. Made RTB a lot easier since we didn't have to change our planned route, but we also didn't hit as many armored targets on objective as we planned. Win some lose some. AA is a higher priority than T-80's anyway.
Honestly a platform like this, based around flak/shrapnel munitions will probably need to make a comeback in modern combat. Effectively engage drones and entrenched infantry.
I was in service in Finnish army 1998-99 and I was last age group who was trained for this system 🙂 57mm douple barrel is beast... if you hit the target...
The ZSU-57-2 saw extensive use by the North Vietnamese national people’s army, during the 1972 Easter Offensive in particular. One advantage the ZSU-57-2 might have had over the ZSU-23-4 is a theoretically higher effective range. That’s also why the Germans in WW2 preferred the Flakpanzer IV Ostwind with a single 37mm FlaK 43 over the Wirbelwind with it’s 20mm FlaK-Vierling (Quad) 38. Apart from AA usage (It definately posed a threat to some helicopters like the UH-1), the Sparka could be used against infantry and lightly armored targets up to the M113 apc. Addendum: Imho the 2k22 Tunguska was the best deal of Russian AA SPGs, which utilises missiles as main armament, but also sports 2 30mm auto cannons. The concept is somewhat similar to the German Gepard AA SPG, which had 2 35mm auto cannons as main armament, and an attachable Stinger missiles system as secondary weaponry.
Well, few people know that similarly to it's towed variant, the S-60 AAA system, the ZSU-57-2 battery could be made "guided", with radar fire control. The S-60 battery of six barrels and a PUAZO-6-60 optical range finder was connected to (usually) a SON-9 radar van otherwise known as the Firecan (US vietnam veterans know that well), similarly existed a variant called the Firewheel (URAL or KrAZ chassis) truck based system. Drawback, it had to be connected with cables to the ZSU-57-2 platforms having no microwave network like later gun and missile systems. Also existed a C3 vehicle based on the BTR-60, featuring long range antenna and microwave system to the higher air defence commands, but it appeared late and mostly used with Shilka/Gaskin and Gecko units.
I like the most modern versions of the PANTSIR platform, its something about 4 30mm guns with proximity munitions and 12 missiles that can hit targets 25km away
My favourite WW2 AA gun is definitely the Flak 18 - the good old 88mm. My favourite modern AA platform would either be the Gepard or the Panstir. Probably the Panstir.
Well, when we talking about fictional Self Propeled Anti-Aircraft Guns, I have to mention MTX-3 Graveiro (Night Stalker) Heavy Assault Self Propeled Anti-Aircaft Gun/ Suface To Air Missile Launcher /Multiple Launch Rocket System from my literature universe I've created back in 2014. It combines crewless turret, armed with twin 10 cm rapid firing autocannon, surface to air missile launcher in front of a turret and multiple launch rocket system behind the turret (the crew was put in well armored and equiped capsule between SAM launcher and the turret) and enlarged achassis of a Mastodon super heavy siege tank with additional armor plates. It was prodused by both MTX-3 and JXC corporations from 3016 up untill the end of the Fourth Intergalactic War (3027-3051) and was used by army, land units of space marines (it is not Warhammer 40k spacemarines keep in mind) and non-governmental mercenary organizations of the Confederation of Earth And Andromeda Galaxy in several different variations. To be honest this assault self-propeled anti-aircraft gun was inspired both by ZSU- 57-2 and towed 100-mm KS-19 anti-aircraft gun))
I think the last two years have undoubtedly shown that the best developed and put in service SPAAG is the German Gepard! It is even effective after the German army had retired it 15 years ago! I didn’t saw any other system performing equally well considering the how old it is!
The twin 57's mounted on a modern vehicle with modern fire control systems and radar guidance would be an excellent drone killer on todays battel field.
Love mine, always starts, runs reliably and gets good enough mileage to drive it to & from Walmart for supply runs. Weapon depression is just barely low enough to help clear traffic when needed as well. Bit tough to get in the garage, but it’s heavy enough if needed I can just park on top of the wife’s ‘78 Gremlin.
The German WW2 Whirbelwind will always be my favorite, a quad 20mm sp AAA. Then we have the late cold war icon, the Shilka ZSU-23-4. That was a bada** weapons system for its time. Today, i would pick the CV-90/40 AD, if we are talking sp AAA. Its simple but advanced, reliable, well proven, effective, and modular...
As far as self propelled AAA goes, nothing beats the Flakpanzer Gepard. Although they have this new AAA MANTIS gun, which supposedly is very good, but as far as I know it's not been deployed in a mobile role. As far as air defense goes in general, you typically find the best systems on warships.
I just remember blowing up and hijacjjing these things a lot in Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction for the PS2, super fun. The Koreans had them in the game
ADR-04 Destroid Defender from Macross, my favourite genre of Japanese mecha, 80's realistc hard sci-fi. Quite popular at the time, so much, it was nicked by F.A.S.A and Harmony Gold in the west. As for real life, a few years ago I would have instantly said Flakpanzer Gepard, and even more so now it's developed a reputation for cost effectiveness in the modern drone filled battlefield. However, no-one is going to be making any more of a 50 year old SPAAG on a 60 year old tank chassis. So I'm going with it's replacement, Skyranger 30/35. Skyranger itself a 15-20 year old design, and was destined to be a dead end sales wise, until everyone has suddenly remembered how useful good old AA is.
I just love this thing. The T-55 is my favorite tank of the 50s and this is number 2. 2x57mm is pretty nasty. I like the turret shape, it's rounded edged tapering square is large and the driver's head is in something of an unfortunate position if the turret needs to turn suddenly 😂.
The S-60 gun (the 57mm on this thing) is still heavily used in Ukraine by Russia as an indirect ''artillery'' autocannon...it gets targeting information from a drone and then peppers a trench with 57 HE rounds...
I built a 1/35 scale model of this vehicle a few years back. It was real challenge with the cramped interior design and ammunition stowage arrangement. If this vehicle in combat ever took an antitank round into the turret area, with the way the ammunition is stored the cook-off would spectacular 🔥.
Tracked Rapier always made my knees to wobbly. Such a sexy beast. It just looked right. I recall seeing it for the first time on Salisbury Plane while on exercise (80s). Love at first sight.
Im sure it would have been ok against early helicopters, but it would have done a good job as an assault gun with a few of these just saturating a target area at around its max range. Enough to get tanks in a bit closer for accurate direct fire.
To answer your question, I think the M247 Sargant York, specifically the testbed model with the mounted GAU-8 Avenger 30mm cannon is the coolest SPAA design ever, even though it was never adopted and only ever existed as testing platform.
Allowing for the time period, my vote for ultimate air defense system would go to the WWII US Navy's 5"/ 38 caliber with the Mk. 37 director and VT proximity fuse.
In sci fi its a tied with the Hammer's Slammers Power Guns and the BOLO's Hellbore which both are LOS and swat aircraft and arty shells out of the art. IRL I like CRAM and Patroit.
If you ask what is my favorite AA system that the Duster, I know it wasn't effective vs jets and was pretty obsolete as an AA gun when it was made, but luckily it never had to face aircraft and it was hell on wheels in a fire support role, but honestly I just think it looks cool. As far as most effective AA system in it's own era I would say the 5"/38 with radar director and proximity shells against the WWII aircraft it faced it was devestating.
The Duster would still be effective today with modern radar and fire control systems and ammunition. This market has been taken by the slightly less powerful Italian 76mm naval gun which now manages 120rpm. It can fire DART guided anti aircraft/missile ammunition and Vulkano 76 GPS rounds to 76km. -The US is now testing MADFIRES guided 57mm rounds with its own seeker firewood from the standard Mk1110 Bofors at 220 RPM. Deadly with a muzzle velocity of 1200m/s it can get to 5km in 5 seconds. -Duster could probably get to 8km in 8 seconds with a sub-caliber round enough to take out a Ka-52 at realistic ranges.
Ah hey Matt, I was jusr thinking about you. Its neat to see how some militaries are moving to heavy autocannons like the 50mm or 57mm S-68 being used in modern IFV concepts.
Greece has some twin brl anti aircraft gun called Artemis heard they testing bringing those back in action but with a sgort range radar on them to take down drones
gosh imagine having that directed at your foxhole in direct fire role! Btw that radio controlled model would make a great depth of field filming sequence chasing a human across a plain or something!
Incredible machine, makes me wonder about the heat generated and how long those barrels will last, I think one of their most interesting units are the old Tunguska 2К22 "Тунгуска" which is very modern and my humble guess is that they are being used side by side with the german Gepard
@@dobbo7690 The combined rate of fire of both guns is 1100 rpm, it's actual rate of fire is actually 550 if per gun separately. Also 3 min is actually quite long even for 1100rpm. each Gepard has about 640 rounds of AA ammunition. 640 x 50 = 32,000 150,000 / 32,000 = 4.68 Each of the Gepards delivered would have about 4.6 reloads each. If not more if they kept some in reserve.
@@dobbo7690 The ammunition is back in production. Gepards usually engage in a 6 burst cycle. They can do less (say 3) or more (say 20) but 6 is optimal. .
09:35 rate of fire was never an issue. ZSU57-2 never fights alone. But the range and the lethality were critical. NK still use them as radar-operated. You should be very stealth to evade 57mm round when it comes to you.
This platform is still not obsolete as a weapon, even for AA if it could be supplied with detection equipment and fire control. In the era of drones and small flying stuff AAA is still useful. 57mm has an excellent range however, and explosive power with proxy fuse
My own favorite is a bit of a stretch as far as air defense guns go, is the Phalanx CIWS. Ridiculously high fire rate with advanced targeting systems makes it lethal against both missiles and aircraft.
My favorite SPAAG would be the 2K22 Tunguska from USSR / Russia. Goddamn, the trio of twin-30mm cannons, 8 SAMs, and it’s tracked nature, never fail to turn me on! In my opinion, it’s the best SPAAG out there.
@@maitreytelang2312 You did indeed say ‘Trio’, which is incorrect: - ‘Trio’ means THREE, ‘Twin’ means TWO. Therefore a ‘trio of twins’ means SIX (3 X 2 = 6). This has TWO twin-barrel cannons (or a duo if you prefer) making for a total of FOUR cannons (2 X 2 = 4).
@@AtheistOrphan My dude, I know trio denotes three. I, quite evidently, wrote that the three features (twin-30mm cannons, 8 SAMs and tracks) make it fabulous. Read my statement with punctuation and you'll understand brother.
This thing would be extremely effective for urban warfare/anti-sniper roles. Being able to rotate the gun quickly/high up, a lot of protection from small arms, a rapid rate of fire, a round that'll go through the lot of walls. It's just perfect for that. Also it's based on T54, so easy to get spare parts, and relatively light for crossing bridges.
I have a model kit of this and I’m looking forward to building it. There is a special place in my heart for anti-aircraft tanks because there are a lot of really cool looking ones from many different nations and I have kits for some of those too like the Shilka, Gepard, Sgt. York etc.
saw one of these in person at the (odd place to put it) naval history museum in Tallin Estonia when visiting their. it was an interesting museum and with it mostly being naval stuff it was weird seeing a random SPAA.
By the time I was in the Army in the mid-1980s, this model was included in visual identification cards, but there seemed to be more concern directed toward the ZSU 23-4. Gun systems seemed less of a threat to fast movers, and the 23-4 was more of a threat to helicopters and ground targets.
THIS... IS.... SPARKA!!!!
Lol yes. Just....yes.
I mean it had to be said but honestly, was it worth it?
@@nomoss9600 there are some things done not for worth, but because you can.
@@_Matsimus_ The ZSU-52 was developed from the WW2 German 5.5 cm/77 (2.17") Gerät 58 which the Soviet captured after WW2. This used remotely aimed computer aimed 55mm guns. It never entered service but several were built. No one in WW2 managed to get a 50-57mm gun into service. The effect of gun flash and smoke on the gunner was to much. Smokeless and flashless propellant's helped but was not enough. The solution was to aim and range remotely and aim by electronic/electro mechanical computers similar to FLAK/AAA predictors used for larger guns till then. These tracked the target, calculated a firing solution and compensated for parallax between gun and optics.
-The 5.5 cm/77 (2.17") Gerät 58 actually came out of the Dambusters raid where German 2.0cm guns had damaged and even shot down Lancaster but had lacked the destructive power to stop the Lancaster. 55mm was needed to bring down a 4 engines bomber with a single shot.
my fav. SPAAG is the R3-T20
In the 70's and 80's I was in TOW Missile units. Our main targets in the Fulda Gap were the ZSU-23-4, any tank with multiple antennas, and the ZSU-57-2.
“Ivan our tanks will be unstoppable, I removed all the antennas!”
Cause more antennas = command vehicle right?
@@karl_franz_prince_and_emperorusually, yes.
Or a priority target nevertheless
@@karl_franz_prince_and_emperor Correct.
Johnny no tire?
As an m47 Dragon gunner in the 80's, this and the ZSU 23-4 were the two SPAAG platforms we had to be able to ID. Glad I never had to use it.
I'm not well versed in Soviet armor engineering, but that turret seems like a headache for the driver. Were such decapitation turrets common?
@@VikingTeddy In combat mode, the driver's hatch must be closed, and driving under periscopes is a real horror. I know because in 1986 I was a ZSU-57/2 driver in the JNA.
Spoke to a Finnish army officer who said they would include these in live fire exercises back in the 80's simply because they made a tremendous amount of noise and were great fun to watch.
On paper I’d have to say the Tunguska would be my favorite SPAAG. Tracked, two twin-barreled 30mm gast type auto-cannons and 8 ready to fire missiles. Radar controlled with optical back-up for the 30mm’s.
Having served on a ZSU 23-4, thats my favourite. At the time (1985) the 57-2 was not in service anymore in East Germany. I remember a colonel talking about the old times, how beautiful it looked when two tracer 57mm shells arced through the air. I still own an empty 57mm brass casing.
I was a crew of one of these mashines in Serbia in 2001! Thanks for this video.
6.7 BR *vibes*
7 years ago it used to be the best vehicle in the game lol
❤
DA
7.0 now but can still side pen mbts at 10.0
@@rowanyuh6326 An Unexpected Threat 😂
During the 1st Gulf War this and the Shilka were used not only for AAA, but also for anti-armor. This is the SKS of the AAA world. And I love the SKS!!!
If you go to Parola tank museum in Finland, there's a tank turret which has been test fired with this. And gone nicely through from the back. I think you can see that turret in Chieftains quick walk around video.
One thing that we need to keep in mind here is the timing. This came into service in 1957, when the best SPAAG in "Western" service was still the M42 Duster, to which this was definitely superior, but the rate of improvement in aircraft (especially speed) was just astonishing and AAA had a lot to catch up to. The first SPAAG to surpass the Sparka's AA capabilities was the Czechoslovak M53/57 Ješterka, which traded the long-range performance and destructive power of twin 57 mm for the RoF and other benefits of twin 30 mm, which was mounted (dismountable) on a 6x6 wheeled chassis derived from Praga V3S truck - an off-road legend of Eastern Bloc. Only in the middle of 1960s have these SPAAGs gotten surpassed by M163 VADS and ZSU-23-4 Shilka, ending their quite short stay on the top of the ladder. Add a decade more and we see the introduction of Flakpanzer Gepard and only then development started on the M247 Sergeant York, where the use of M48 Patton hull was the case of giving outdated equipment a new life, rather than parts commonality like in case of ZSU-57-2 and T-54/55. This is IMHO far too big stretch for a fair comparison (York vs Sparka), but given similar quality FCS with radar guidance and proximity-fuzed-shells, the twin 57 mm would be superior (to twin 40 mm L70), because its range and explosive power advantages remain, while the RoF advantage (~2x in this case) of the lower calibre matter a lot less when you don't need to achieve a direct hit. Incorporating such changes to the ZSU-57-2 would be so radical, however, that the result would be a whole new vehicle, even though the powertrain and chassis (maybe add back the pair of wheels) could easily handle the increased weight and still keep up with latest Soviet MBTs, but the update for parts commonality would be logical even there.
The AZP S-60 (towed carriage with the same gun) was designed to be operated in groups of 4 with a radar & fire control station guiding the whole group using wired connection, but I haven't seen any reference suggesting that ZSU-57-2 could hook up to this radar and even if it could, it'd only be feasible when stationary.
I honestly think that the need for defense against aerial threats like helicopters, drones, loitering and smart ammunitions has a logical conclusion in SPAAs on chassis (/platform) of MBTs that they'll be integrated with on platoon level (e.g. 4 MBTs + 2 SPAAs), so that they're close enough to respond in time (much closer than any in-service SPAAG), and will be armed with 35-60 mm (maybe up to 76 mm like OTOMATIC, but that's starting to get too heavy) autocannon with proximity/programmable-fuzed shells (& APFSDS for armored ground targets) and quick-responding FCS, with IR and/or radar, capable of acquiring, identifying and engaging these (mostly) new threats. Although laser-based weapons may be an interesing option for them, I don't think they're versatile enough to be primary armament for this role, but maybe I'm wrong and there'll be a lazer powerful enough to destroy these threats in time. Inclusion of MANPADS is possible, but the added effective range wouldn't be very significant for 57-60 mm guns, while being useless against most of the new threats. IMHO this kind of SPAA would be much better place for platoon's commander and/or (recon) drone operator than what Rheinmetall is proposing with their new Panther KF51. ...what does this have to do with ZSU-57-2? This is the equivalent of what the ZSU-57-2's intended role was, but adjusted to requirements of modern battlefield - smarter, tougher, faster, closer.
This is my favorite AA system. I think it stems from when I use to play Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction, and it was the largest vehicle you could have dropped in. I would sit atop a hill side and hammer enemy ground forces with it much like the U.S. did in Vietnam with the M42 Duster; which happens to be the other SPAA system i like. I guess i have a thing for large caliber auto cannon systems.
Agreed
Also I'm playing Mercenaries 2 on Xbox rn ;)
Mercenaries was an amazing game, played it fairly recently using backwards compatibility on the Xbox One. My god, the hilarious animations when hijacking vehicles (real life vehicles usually, very accurately modelled) where the character jumps on top of the barrel or clambers all over Tanks etc. Amazing animation work for a PS2/original Xbox game.
Thank you I was literally going to comment this. I got it on an emulator on my steam deck and I’m excited.
ZSU-57-2 was just a stop gap solution until newer and better SPAAA appeared and it turned out to be ZSU-23/4.
Yugoslav army bought a certain number of ZSU-57-2 but for newer AAA decided to get Bofors with Giraffe radar. However, during Yugoslav wars in the 1990s, ZSU-57-2 was used for attack on ground targets and it has proven itself to be devastating in that role.
I can only imagine. Would hate to be on the other end of these two barrels, just devastating!
My grandpa was a commander of one of these back in the Soviet era, he was in the Soviet Air Defense Forces. Like your videos, hello from Russia 🇷🇺
Hello!
Slava russia 🇷🇺
@@dannyjayke8695 Thanks, bro, best of luck to you
My favorite anti aircraft vehicle is the Gepard
Lizard
When it comes to AA guns I've always had a fascination with the Shilka.
Same. I love the Shilka.
Me too, ever since the original Operation Flashpoint.
M163 VADS is a close second with it's Bert.
I vaguely remember a clip here on RUclips of Finnish ZU-57-2 in the ground support role sometime in the recent past. Nasty stuff!
I still think the Otomatic was one of the most impressive SPAAGs in modern history.
And just imagine how much better it would be with 20+ years of upgrades.
-Western Nations foolishly eliminated whole layers of defenses to save money. SPAAG's and SHORAD were completely eliminated. They thought they could rely only on fighter jets and some medium range or long range SAM.
-Airburst round Guns whether 30, 35, 57 or 76 are now the only way to deal with drones and cruise missile cost effectively. They'll handle a shahad easily but will need new radar etc for micro drones.
-The Italian 76mm gun can now not only fire proximity fused rounds but DART guided munitions and Vulkano 76 GPS rounds to 50km.
@@williamzk9083 The US never eliminated SHORAD, though I do think it was a mistake abandoning that double barrel 40mm SPAAG since it had proximity fused shells which would have been very useful. maybe the new 50mm bushmaster could be used in a SHORAD role in the near future, I could see a different turret attached to the top of the M10 Booker utilizing a radar and the 50mm with proxy fuse shells.
@@dominuslogik484 The US does not have SHORAD now. It has MANPADs which have 1/3rd the range.
Agree with everything else you say. All these guns will work if they have the correct radar and sensors to handle micro drones, air-burst or guided ammunition such as MADFIRES
@@williamzk9083 The US does have SHORAD, the Stryker SHORAD entered service in 2020 to replace the Avenger system on the Humvee.
"The Army also ordered Stryker SHORAD platform, equipped with four Stinger and two AGM-114L Longbow Hellfire missiles, 30 mm M230 chain gun, 7.62 M240 machine gun, and a 360-degree search radar system. First vehicles were delivered in 2021, and a total of 144 vehicles will be deployed by 2025."
we may not have a lot of them at the moment but we are not directly involved in any major conflicts at the moment so they are taking their time with procurement.
there is also the Stryker DE SHORAD which Raytheon developed and is equipped with a 50Kw laser for Air defense and 2 were delivered this year for crew training. the laser is for countering group 1-3 UAS (unmanned aerial systems) and has been proven to be able to intercept slower moving projectiles such as mortar shells.
@@williamzk9083The U.S. never gave up SHORAD, it was the Avenger system on a Humvee for a while. Now its the Stryker M SHORAD. Do some basic research before spewing more garbage.
Used to love rocking these things in Mercenaries on PS2.
During a SIFT style practice test about apache flight operations, the instructor threw one of these up to defend a high ground position. Memorable experience.
I flew in below it's depression limits, spun up it's side and hit it with an IR missile and kept pushing onto the objective. Wingman did the same and we executed the mission like he wasn't there. Made RTB a lot easier since we didn't have to change our planned route, but we also didn't hit as many armored targets on objective as we planned. Win some lose some. AA is a higher priority than T-80's anyway.
Sounds like an exiting PC game.
It's a toss up between the Shilka and M163 Vulcan ADS
I fell in love with them ever since Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis.
Honestly a platform like this, based around flak/shrapnel munitions will probably need to make a comeback in modern combat. Effectively engage drones and entrenched infantry.
I like the idea of sitting in the sun and breeze and seeing what's going on, so the M42 Duster is fine with me. If it's raining I'm going home!
I was in service in Finnish army 1998-99 and I was last age group who was trained for this system 🙂
57mm douple barrel is beast... if you hit the target...
There are videos on this platform showing the destructive effect of the 57 round on ground targets including light tanks
Finland got them in 1960 and we only got rid of them in 2006, replaced first by the t-55 marksman, and now marksman leopard 2.
Oh, my favorite are the Ostwind and a nice 5 cm Flak 41 L/67.
North Vietnam got a lot of these 57mm AA guns. Was very brutal against US helicopters and low flying aircraft.
Niice
The ZSU-57-2 saw extensive use by the North Vietnamese national people’s army, during the 1972 Easter Offensive in particular. One advantage the ZSU-57-2 might have had over the ZSU-23-4 is a theoretically higher effective range. That’s also why the Germans in WW2 preferred the Flakpanzer IV Ostwind with a single 37mm FlaK 43 over the Wirbelwind with it’s 20mm FlaK-Vierling (Quad) 38.
Apart from AA usage (It definately posed a threat to some helicopters like the UH-1), the Sparka could be used against infantry and lightly armored targets up to the M113 apc.
Addendum: Imho the 2k22 Tunguska was the best deal of Russian AA SPGs, which utilises missiles as main armament, but also sports 2 30mm auto cannons.
The concept is somewhat similar to the German Gepard AA SPG, which had 2 35mm auto cannons as main armament, and an attachable Stinger missiles system as secondary weaponry.
You definitely have to respect the engineering of all nations especially at these times.
Old school but loved the German 12.8cm Flak Zwilling twin mount.
My favourite would be the quad .50 mount. It may not be the most powerful but it looks so cool.
M45 I think it’s called. It had the nick name , “meat chopper”.
Well, few people know that similarly to it's towed variant, the S-60 AAA system, the ZSU-57-2 battery could be made "guided", with radar fire control. The S-60 battery of six barrels and a PUAZO-6-60 optical range finder was connected to (usually) a SON-9 radar van otherwise known as the Firecan (US vietnam veterans know that well), similarly existed a variant called the Firewheel (URAL or KrAZ chassis) truck based system. Drawback, it had to be connected with cables to the ZSU-57-2 platforms having no microwave network like later gun and missile systems. Also existed a C3 vehicle based on the BTR-60, featuring long range antenna and microwave system to the higher air defence commands, but it appeared late and mostly used with Shilka/Gaskin and Gecko units.
I like the most modern versions of the PANTSIR platform, its something about 4 30mm guns with proximity munitions and 12 missiles that can hit targets 25km away
My favourite WW2 AA gun is definitely the Flak 18 - the good old 88mm.
My favourite modern AA platform would either be the Gepard or the Panstir. Probably the Panstir.
For me the best SPAAG but in a perfect world. No Glitches etc. Is the Sergeant York. In between the 20mm, 30mm and 57mm aa guns.
Well, when we talking about fictional Self Propeled Anti-Aircraft Guns, I have to mention MTX-3 Graveiro (Night Stalker) Heavy Assault Self Propeled Anti-Aircaft Gun/ Suface To Air Missile Launcher /Multiple Launch Rocket System from my literature universe I've created back in 2014. It combines crewless turret, armed with twin 10 cm rapid firing autocannon, surface to air missile launcher in front of a turret and multiple launch rocket system behind the turret (the crew was put in well armored and equiped capsule between SAM launcher and the turret) and enlarged achassis of a Mastodon super heavy siege tank with additional armor plates. It was prodused by both MTX-3 and JXC corporations from 3016 up untill the end of the Fourth Intergalactic War (3027-3051) and was used by army, land units of space marines (it is not Warhammer 40k spacemarines keep in mind) and non-governmental mercenary organizations of the
Confederation of Earth And Andromeda Galaxy in several different variations. To be honest this assault self-propeled anti-aircraft gun was inspired both by ZSU- 57-2 and towed 100-mm KS-19 anti-aircraft gun))
I have no idea why, but I've always loved these things
In WT this baby is giving self-propelled a whole new meaning.
Well, since it was pretty interesting, I'll give it a like, just as you asked.
The Flakpanzer Gepard is probably the best SPAA gun ever created.
I think the last two years have undoubtedly shown that the best developed and put in service SPAAG is the German Gepard! It is even effective after the German army had retired it 15 years ago! I didn’t saw any other system performing equally well considering the how old it is!
4:09...Family fun . Every family needs one
The twin 57's mounted on a modern vehicle with modern fire control systems and radar guidance would be an excellent drone killer on todays battel field.
2S38 ZAK-57 Derivatsiya-PVO is what you're looking for, except it primarily works on IR instead of radar acquisition and tracking
Терминатор 3 будет с двумя 57мм пушками
no need for 57mm if we just talk drones
@@bruhbruh3847 indeed, but 57 mm is far more universal tool than spam of low caliber projectiles
My favorite SPAAG is the ZSU23-4.
Love mine, always starts, runs reliably and gets good enough mileage to drive it to & from Walmart for supply runs. Weapon depression is just barely low enough to help clear traffic when needed as well. Bit tough to get in the garage, but it’s heavy enough if needed I can just park on top of the wife’s ‘78 Gremlin.
I like the Tunguska.
Updated could be useful as anti drone system. Nice large calibre for proximity fused shells.
The German WW2 Whirbelwind will always be my favorite, a quad 20mm sp AAA.
Then we have the late cold war icon, the Shilka ZSU-23-4. That was a bada** weapons system for its time.
Today, i would pick the CV-90/40 AD, if we are talking sp AAA. Its simple but advanced, reliable, well proven, effective, and modular...
As far as self propelled AAA goes, nothing beats the Flakpanzer Gepard. Although they have this new AAA MANTIS gun, which supposedly is very good, but as far as I know it's not been deployed in a mobile role. As far as air defense goes in general, you typically find the best systems on warships.
Oh, someone has been listening latest fairytales... And parots them enthusiasticaly.
I just remember blowing up and hijacjjing these things a lot in Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction for the PS2, super fun. The Koreans had them in the game
🥱
Thankyou! I learned something today. Now I know the difference between 'live' tracks and 'dead' tracks.
Pancir SM, but 57 mm is great calibar, its multipurpose you can use this for antaircraft and anttenk wepon.
ADR-04 Destroid Defender from Macross, my favourite genre of Japanese mecha, 80's realistc hard sci-fi. Quite popular at the time, so much, it was nicked by F.A.S.A and Harmony Gold in the west.
As for real life, a few years ago I would have instantly said Flakpanzer Gepard, and even more so now it's developed a reputation for cost effectiveness in the modern drone filled battlefield. However, no-one is going to be making any more of a 50 year old SPAAG on a 60 year old tank chassis.
So I'm going with it's replacement, Skyranger 30/35. Skyranger itself a 15-20 year old design, and was destined to be a dead end sales wise, until everyone has suddenly remembered how useful good old AA is.
I just love this thing. The T-55 is my favorite tank of the 50s and this is number 2. 2x57mm is pretty nasty. I like the turret shape, it's rounded edged tapering square is large and the driver's head is in something of an unfortunate position if the turret needs to turn suddenly 😂.
For my favourite I am torn between the 88 mm flak and the Shilka.
The German 88 of WWII. An excellent, can do anything gun. Including AAA.
my favorits is the swedish LVKv 90c on secondplace the russian shilka just becouse its so iconic too the cold war
BUK anti-aircraft missile system. Proven very effective against cruising Boeing 777ER aircraft.
Looks like a nasty infantry shredder!
ZSU-23 quad. Excellent.
The S-60 gun (the 57mm on this thing) is still heavily used in Ukraine by Russia as an indirect ''artillery'' autocannon...it gets targeting information from a drone and then peppers a trench with 57 HE rounds...
I always liked this on the PS2 Mercenaries game.
Being former Navy, im going to have to go with the Aegis and Sea Viper systems with the SM series and Aster series missiles respectively.
Favorite mobile AA gun. Bradley Avenger.....bbrrtttt. Favorite Sc-fi Anti air SPAGG. Mark 34 bolo
I built a 1/35 scale model of this vehicle a few years back.
It was real challenge with the cramped interior design and ammunition stowage arrangement.
If this vehicle in combat ever took an antitank round into the turret area, with the way the ammunition is stored the cook-off would spectacular 🔥.
Tracked Rapier always made my knees to wobbly. Such a sexy beast. It just looked right. I recall seeing it for the first time on Salisbury Plane while on exercise (80s). Love at first sight.
Slap a radar targeting package to it and it will be a good anti-drone, anti-close air support SPAAG.
I personally think the Shilka is neat even if it's not the best
Im sure it would have been ok against early helicopters, but it would have done a good job as an assault gun with a few of these just saturating a target area at around its max range. Enough to get tanks in a bit closer for accurate direct fire.
Another informative, entertaining vid from Mat as always
To answer your question, I think the M247 Sargant York, specifically the testbed model with the mounted GAU-8 Avenger 30mm cannon is the coolest SPAA design ever, even though it was never adopted and only ever existed as testing platform.
Have you heard of the T249 Vigilante?
The SGT York turned out to be bad.
I love this military platform. Keep up the amazing videos. Hello from whitehouse Texas
Great video, I've always wanted to know more about this platform!
My favorite AA system has to be the Italian OTOMATIC by OTO Melara, it's such a beauty.
ZSU -23-4 Shilka is my fav
Allowing for the time period, my vote for ultimate air defense system would go to the WWII US Navy's 5"/ 38 caliber with the Mk. 37 director and VT proximity fuse.
ZSU-37-2 Yensiei is fascinating...
The M247 Sergeant York
and the
AAA Abrams Fictional unfortunately
Has 2 twin 35mm Cannons and 2x6 ADATS
Why wasn’t it just re-branded as an infantry fighting Vehicle? Guns go up to in case there’s fighting in mountains or in cities.
In sci fi its a tied with the Hammer's Slammers Power Guns and the BOLO's Hellbore which both are LOS and swat aircraft and arty shells out of the art. IRL I like CRAM and Patroit.
If you ask what is my favorite AA system that the Duster, I know it wasn't effective vs jets and was pretty obsolete as an AA gun when it was made, but luckily it never had to face aircraft and it was hell on wheels in a fire support role, but honestly I just think it looks cool. As far as most effective AA system in it's own era I would say the 5"/38 with radar director and proximity shells against the WWII aircraft it faced it was devestating.
The Duster would still be effective today with modern radar and fire control systems and ammunition. This market has been taken by the slightly less powerful Italian 76mm naval gun which now manages 120rpm. It can fire DART guided anti aircraft/missile ammunition and Vulkano 76 GPS rounds to 76km.
-The US is now testing MADFIRES guided 57mm rounds with its own seeker firewood from the standard Mk1110 Bofors at 220 RPM. Deadly with a muzzle velocity of 1200m/s it can get to 5km in 5 seconds.
-Duster could probably get to 8km in 8 seconds with a sub-caliber round enough to take out a Ka-52 at realistic ranges.
Ah hey Matt, I was jusr thinking about you. Its neat to see how some militaries are moving to heavy autocannons like the 50mm or 57mm S-68 being used in modern IFV concepts.
Greece has some twin brl anti aircraft gun called Artemis heard they testing bringing those back in action but with a sgort range radar on them to take down drones
I look at that vehicle and think to myself, wow, that's a deadly bowler hat that tank is wearing.
The opening music is so great on this episode. I'd use the Millenium 27mm AHEAD gun, though i believe its mostly a naval weapon system.
AHEAD is being implemented on german wheeled and tracked vehicles!
gosh imagine having that directed at your foxhole in direct fire role! Btw that radio controlled model would make a great depth of field filming sequence chasing a human across a plain or something!
I mean if I have a choice of sci fi AA gotta go with the classic twin linked heavy bolter, lol
My favourite is KS-30 130 mm AA, it look like made or can be use for Soviet Moon landing or HighFleet 🚀
Incredible machine, makes me wonder about the heat generated and how long those barrels will last, I think one of their most interesting units are the old Tunguska 2К22 "Тунгуска" which is very modern and my humble guess is that they are being used side by side with the german Gepard
Very true, @@dobbo7690 in no time these units are defending valuable infraestructure which is a smart use of them!
@@dobbo7690 The combined rate of fire of both guns is 1100 rpm, it's actual rate of fire is actually 550 if per gun separately.
Also 3 min is actually quite long even for 1100rpm.
each Gepard has about 640 rounds of AA ammunition.
640 x 50 = 32,000
150,000 / 32,000 = 4.68
Each of the Gepards delivered would have about 4.6 reloads each. If not more if they kept some in reserve.
@@dobbo7690 The ammunition is back in production. Gepards usually engage in a 6 burst cycle. They can do less (say 3) or more (say 20) but 6 is optimal. .
More of these vids matt! Love it
09:35 rate of fire was never an issue. ZSU57-2 never fights alone. But the range and the lethality were critical. NK still use them as radar-operated. You should be very stealth to evade 57mm round when it comes to you.
This platform is still not obsolete as a weapon, even for AA if it could be supplied with detection equipment and fire control. In the era of drones and small flying stuff AAA is still useful. 57mm has an excellent range however, and explosive power with proxy fuse
Favorite SPAA…. Tied between the Skink and that Vietnamese T-34 AA. Both are very neat.
That RC one is cute ass hell😍
My own favorite is a bit of a stretch as far as air defense guns go, is the Phalanx CIWS. Ridiculously high fire rate with advanced targeting systems makes it lethal against both missiles and aircraft.
My favorite SPAAG would be the 2K22 Tunguska from USSR / Russia. Goddamn, the trio of twin-30mm cannons, 8 SAMs, and it’s tracked nature, never fail to turn me on! In my opinion, it’s the best SPAAG out there.
TRIO of twin 30mm cannons? Er no, it has 2 × twin-barrel 30 mm 2А38M [ru] guns. (‘Trio’ means three). But I agree, it’s a beast!
@@AtheistOrphan Dude, read my comment. I said trio of twin-30mm cannons, 8 SAMs and it’s tracked nature.
@@maitreytelang2312 You did indeed say ‘Trio’, which is incorrect: - ‘Trio’ means THREE, ‘Twin’ means TWO. Therefore a ‘trio of twins’ means SIX (3 X 2 = 6). This has TWO twin-barrel cannons (or a duo if you prefer) making for a total of FOUR cannons (2 X 2 = 4).
@@AtheistOrphan My dude, I know trio denotes three. I, quite evidently, wrote that the three features (twin-30mm cannons, 8 SAMs and tracks) make it fabulous. Read my statement with punctuation and you'll understand brother.
Hilarious 😂
Great video on a cold war beast
This thing would be extremely effective for urban warfare/anti-sniper roles. Being able to rotate the gun quickly/high up, a lot of protection from small arms, a rapid rate of fire, a round that'll go through the lot of walls. It's just perfect for that.
Also it's based on T54, so easy to get spare parts, and relatively light for crossing bridges.
I have a model kit of this and I’m looking forward to building it. There is a special place in my heart for anti-aircraft tanks because there are a lot of really cool looking ones from many different nations and I have kits for some of those too like the Shilka, Gepard, Sgt. York etc.
saw one of these in person at the (odd place to put it) naval history museum in Tallin Estonia when visiting their. it was an interesting museum and with it mostly being naval stuff it was weird seeing a random SPAA.
By the time I was in the Army in the mid-1980s, this model was included in visual identification cards, but there seemed to be more concern directed toward the ZSU 23-4. Gun systems seemed less of a threat to fast movers, and the 23-4 was more of a threat to helicopters and ground targets.