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Softube Amp Sims are great..... if you do this.
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- Опубликовано: 17 фев 2024
- Thought I'd demonstrate this with Softube as 1Vp=0dBFS is quite a different calibration to what you might be used to from other brands.
If you use humbuckers, even if you record with a very hot signal, its still going to be too low for Softube. You will almost certainly have to boost the input by some amount.
If you record a hot signal with single coils, you may be OK. The best way is to work out what your input headroom is (in dBU). The add 0.79 to this value, and boost by your input level by that amount. Amp Room has a maximum of 12dB so you may have to boost with an external plugin.
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Great!! You should be hired by one of these companies! I think it's a huge mistake. Because the potential customer may reconsider their purchase. These companies should focus their efforts into this.
It really made me think some amp sims were just bad before I realised this. Softube was one I totally dismissed because I didn't realise they needed a VERY different level to what I recorded with.
I hope they address it, or at least give more clarity because many users would like the most accurate experience.
@@eds4754 unluckily many of you got a shit taste for REAL TONES. thats why they sell SHT AS FAKE GOLD! DIAMONDS ON MY TEETH BRA
Oh wow! I've had the Softube Silver Jubilee plugin for years and never used it cos it sounds limp and lifeless. Now when I crank the input gain it comes to life and makes me want to actually use it. Awesome tip, thank you 🤘
This was my exact experience too. I compared the plugin with the real amp and setting the input level for 1V=0dBFS made it so much better than not cranking the input
I trialled the silver jubilee and hated it with a passion so I nece3 bought it. Same finding and I own one for reference.
Ed what would you recommend for Nembrini and SGear?
@@thehelicopterpage4251 Both should be 13dBu (they’re on my spreadsheet). I’ve heard some people say they prefer S-Gear with a hotter signal though.
Yes, yes....and yes. Someone who gets it, and sharing it. Thanks for doing this.
Very few manufacturers are saying about this issue in their user manuals or website.
Nembrini responded back to my email regarding this issue and they confirmed that they are calibrating their plugins to the rule -18dBFS = 4dBU (0 analog meter).
Also, Atomic amps just released a plugin similar to Tonex, and in the user manual they're saying exactly the same thing. They even show how to precisely calibrate the input using a Voltmeter.
Hello ! So regarding Nembrini plugins does this mean that we should leave the input gain at 0 or change it ? I guess it would depend on our sound interface.
@@ModernGuitar Leaving the interface input at 0 doesn't depend on the interface. It should be at 0 to have a reference point to start. What it matters depending on the interface, and which plugin is used, is the amount of gain applied before the plugin inside the DAW using a clean boost plugin. There are multiple videos on RUclips explaining this, youtuber Ed S being the most accurate at explaining. Check his videos. Hope this helps.
@ModernGuitar Yeah, it always depends on your interface
@@eds4754 if I understand correctly from your videos, leaving the input knob at 0 doesn't depend on the interface. Is this correct?
@@OrangeMicMusic Well it’s mostly about knowing what headroom you have available on the input. This is typically given in the interface specs with gain at 0 (so the maximum headroom). You can also measure yourself if you want to use a different amount of headroom, but often gain at 0/maximum headroom is designed to be optimal for guitar DI’s
If you have an external sound card. Check the headroom/( dBu)
My Focousrite have 13 dbu.
I just went with 13,79x0.75=10.34.
Then on my high-z channel (amp sim guitar track) i put in +10.34 on the gain to boost the signal. Sounds so much better!
Impressive work Ed! Thank you for
I just dont get it, these companies are putting out all these products, and then not going on to tell people how to best use them.
Bro , u are One of the not npc left.... RUN ! AND BECOME A SUPA PLAYA DONT GET CAUGHT.
You want every plugin you buy to give you a lesson on basic gain staging?
It says very clearly in the manual what the recommended input level is.
@@TjMoon91 and some of the creators also said to dial it up to pre-clipping in their instructions. I like many others had been under the impression that was the go to due to mis-information. So yes, it would be nice if they were all crystal clear and had corrected people all these years instead of letting it slide. Its not hard for them to state at what input level they created their plugin.
If you already knew all about this then great, cookie for you...
@@BBGuitars How much more clear can they be? There’s a heading in the manual called ‘Input Level’.
@@TjMoon91 yes, lets skip over the point that they had provided the wrong information in the past....
I have the vintage amp suite from Softube also, and I thought the AC30 model was especially anemic when I first tried it. I'm definitely going to see if your suggestions here apply there also. I have a couple vintage AC30s to use as references. One thing that bothers me is that the channels are automatically jumpered in the virtual Softube AC30.
@@jcshirke It wouldn’t surprise me, definitely sounds like it’s been made for a higher input level if it was sounding weak and anaemic. Let me know how it goes!
Good stuff as always Ed!
Thanks!
This advice works great (the approx 12 db boost in the plugin) and I am getting a better sound than before but still not what I am after. I’ll have to play with the mic types and levels more I guess.
I always use external IR’s, it can take a while to find the ones that sound right to you but it’s so important to get that side of things right. Glad it’s helping!
@@eds4754Thank you for all the great info you are providing! Can you recommend some IRs for these Marshall emus?
Despite all my rage I am still almost a rat in a cage.
An ideia of video: I'd like to know how to connect an audio interface to the return of an real amplifier to use a real cab with NAM (or even Softube) and get the more accurate result possible.
Greetings from Brazil!
Thanks! Its quite complicated tbh, because you'd be doubling up on poweramps. If you use a preamp model, its still not really the same thing as poweramp designs vary a lot and the cab impedance affects the poweramp response a lot. There are a lot of 2 way interactions that make it hard to split components up.
I don't use amp sims like this and its not an area I really see much purpose for (I'd just use a modeller or real amp in that scenario). Sorry :(
Oh man, thank you so much for specifically addressing Softube AmpRoom! I already contacted their customer service, but only got the answer: "well, we'll tell our AmpRoom developers." ....not very helpful tbh.
So I got two questions:
a) is this 12dB input gain increase applicable to ALL their amp-emulations or only the Marshalls?
b) I'm using an Audient ID44 (mki) , would that require the same added input gain of 12dB in the plugin
Softube gave me kind of conflicting advice so I’m not sure. I own most of the Marshalls that they’ve modelled and those definitely match at 1V=0dBFS. Softube told me 3V=0dBFS so it may be worth checking that too if things feel overgained
@@eds4754 Thanks man, i just revisited your first video on the general topic and looked at the updated Excel sheet. I'll give it a try til it sounds about right. Problem is, a Morgan AC40 Dlx is literally my ONLY physical amp, so I don't have the option to compare Amp Room's emulations to the real thing.
@@simonjonasmusic8410 I had to guess some from Amplitube as their levels are all over the place, I did that by looking at demos of the real amp on youtube that show the settings to get an idea of the expected amount of gain.
I think with Amp Room you can try at 1V=0dBFS, and then 3V=0dBFS (which is basically 12dBu) and see which one seems closer. That’s about the best I can do unless Softube give more clarification
How about the Plexi? I feel like it already sounds amazing to me, but I’d also like to know how to get it sounding even better
I think the Plexi also follows this, the Kerry King, JMP2203, Jubilee, JCM800 all do. Can be hard to tell with Plexi’s because they sound so blown out already. They were all released around the same time so I don’t think they would have done anything different
It's really hard to me to understand all these numbers correctly. Isn't is the same as to add input gain on the interface? If i'm using RME Babyface Pro Fs, what should i do for optimal result? Also, my main guitar is Gibson LP Standard 60's, and its pickups are quite sparky, so i lowered them to almost 3mm from the strings.
Anyway, thank you for great videos, the anount of info you give is impressive!
It’s basically more about adjusting the headroom rather than specifically the level of the DI signal. Having the correct amount of headroom means you can have the right gain response from any plugin, just by matching to the level they’ve coded it at.
IIRC at minimum gain RME stuff is 13dBu. You’ll want to use my table linked in the other video to find the right levels for whatever amp sim you are using
What if I'm using active pickups? then I guess it should be less than +12dB isn't it?
the pickups don’t matter, it’s the interface’s conversion you are compensating for. If you need to adjust by 12dB it would be the same amount for any pickups. But you first need to know your interfaces headroom to know how much to adjust by
I dont know if this problem exclusive for myself, but everytime i turn off the input from my audio interface then using input slider from any Ampsims, the noise itself is louder than my guitar sound, Maybe balanced cable would help(?)
Can (or should you?) boost the input by increasing the gain on your audio interface? I guess another way of putting it is, does it matter where the gain comes from, as long as it's before the amp plugin? I was playing the Marshall 1959SL in this collection last night, and I noticed that it almost sounded like there was a noise gate on it that suddenly chopped off the notes as they died out. It also sounded like there was a subtle tremolo effect on the amp, if I played very softly. I'm going to revisit the plugin now and increase the gain even more.
@@jcshirke yeah you can increase it wherever you like, if you do it on the preamp ideally it’s accurately stepped so you can get it to precisely the right level, otherwise you’d need to measure. Also be sure to avoid clipping on the converter - you can boost without clipping once the signal is in the daw
@@eds4754 Thank you. Your videos are helping me a lot, although I think I'll need to watch some of them again. I watched the one on gain staging plugins, and I just had another (to me) strange occurrence. I put an instance of ToneX in front of Amp Room just now, and I used a ToneX capture of a Tube Driver to boost the Marshall SL in Amp Room. The input level meter in ToneX barely lit up, and maxing it out only brought it up to maybe 1/3, if that. I'm still confused about what to do in instances like that. Add more gain at the start from my interface? Max out the input level of ToneX? Increase the output level also? (Does the output level of ToneX go right to the input of Amp Room, since it's the second plugin in the channel?) And how do all of these things affect where I should set the Amp Room input/output levels? I just kept experimenting until I thought it sounded "best" (to my ears, that is), but it's hardly science in my case. It's just fiddling with knobs and sliders. You understand the math/science of it all, and I'm still wondering if I have a clue what I'm actually doing.
@@jcshirke when stacking different models, gain stage your input for the first thing in the chain, and then work out the difference to the next plugin.
I like adjusting the output of the plugin too so, so all plugins are matched to my input headroom. That way I can bypass plugins and everything continues to behave accurately.
Maybe i’ll do a video showing this as a few people have brought it up
@@eds4754 Thanks once again. Do you have a video where you show how to "work out the difference", as you put it? I would love to see a video where you go through each step.
I have a Fender Jazz Bass, and once again I had a hard time getting my plugin (I think it was Helix native this time) to get enough input signal to put it in the optimal range. It seemed like my best option was to increase the gain from my DI input (Audient ASP 880). Sorry for all the questions and comments, but I really want to get this right and know what I'm doing.
Thanks! I have a Motu Ultra Lite MK5. It states headroom of 20dbu but it also states unbalanced 18dbu. Would you mind downloading manual and having a look to confirm what I should be using as a number? Thanks again Ed. I build Plexi clones btw and have a lot of amps and do amp mods and repairs here in Toronto Canada. Thank you for all you do. Would love to check out your IRs.
18dBu looks correct from the manual. If you have a signal generator you can verify this yourself by running a 0.775V sine wave into your instrument input at 0 and noting the dBFS level in the DAW.
Very cool you build and mod amps, I love all that stuff. My amp tech uses my IR’s on his channel a lot. Would be cool to check your amps and mods out if you have any videos!
@@eds4754 cool I will inject a sine wave to test. By the way my favorite Marshall emulation thus far is the Softube 2203 close second on the Plexi. Also the new Helix 2203 is so close to the Softube 2203. It is so good too.
@@LouRoppoli I agree, both are excellent! NDSP Nolly and Henson have excellent 2203’s and 2204’s too. And the Kerry King 800 is excellent as well. Spoiled for choice!
@@eds4754 you probably have already done this but you can adjust very mildly the headroom on soft tube plugins in the bottom panel up or down to brown out the amp and or tighten the amps it's killer. Like changing the power section filtering on a real amp.
If you record with your interface gain set to zero there is barely any signal print on the track in the DAW(Logic). It sounds fine, but it looks like you haven't recorded a signal at all.
Maybe a stupid question, but does it matter, or am I doing something wrong?
how loud your signal looks at minimum gain will depend on the guitar/pickup/playing AND the interface in question.
As long as the noise floor of the interface is below the noisefloor of your pickups you’re fine. All DAW’s have a waveform zoom too see the signal better, if you need it
also, recording at 0 is more so you can use the interface specs and calibrate accurately. If you measure your headroom yourself, you can use any gain level you like on the interface and adjust the input level of the plugin accordingly
@@eds4754 Thanks for the quick reply. Maybe a stupid question again, but if I increase the gain level on the interface and decrease it on the input gain in the plugin, will it get the same results as the other way around?
@@budwudd Yep, for all intents and purposes it’s the same. If you have an interface with stepped or digitally controlled preamp gain, you can easily add or change the level on the preamp and still calibrate accurately
@@eds4754 Ok, cool. Again, thanks for replying so quickly and thoroughly.
Just to make sure I got this right.
I use a Scarlett 2i4, so I should set the interface gain to 0 and set the plugin input to 13dB, according to the interface spec?
yeah exactly
Nice one ☝️ 👍🏿
You’re welcome man!
@@eds4754idk if it’s a good practice or not but I’ve always gained my di to clip a little as my starting point (on the interface)
@@snapascrew it’s absolutely fine to do that. If you can, I’d recommend measuring the headroom of your input chain (I have a video showing how to do that, it’s pretty quick and easy to do). If you know the analog headroom of your input chain, you can accurately adjust for any amp sim.
Hi Great info thanks😊 i use the softube amp sims on the UAD Platform. I believe there is no way of adjusting the input level? I mostly put a softube marshall amp sim in unison input slot in the uad console app. How do I adjust the input level? Cheers😊
i’m not sure it’s possible. i’d use it in a different slot in monitoring mode, and use another plugin before to increase level
Ah ok thanks. What about I use a real analog boost pedal in Front of the Hizi Input of my Recording Interface, would this work? Cheers
@@henriksorensen6438 yeah, it doesn’t matter what comes before the interface, the same applies. You can use any pickup/guitar/pedal etc and you would boost by the same amount, so it’s the same as plugging any of those into the real amp
I'm interested in this question as well. Actually I've been putting pedals of all kinds in front of the unison plugin - distortion pedals sound phenomenal, probably because of the increase of the input level?
@@matiasmoulin2126 definitely could be a factor. Adjusting the gain isn’t adjusting for the pickups, it’s adjusting for the converters. So it can be quite valid to boost input levels AND use pedals if you want a similar response to boosting a real amp with pedals
So… raising +12 dB at the plugin to a signal that already peaks at -4.5 dBFS (and thus virtually clipping at +7.5 dBFS), to obtain the most faithful response of the modeling amp is a normal thing ????
I don’t point at you Ed, but Softube!
nothing wrong with that on any plugins, as long as you know where to do it!
Great,what about tonex input level?
ToneX depends on whoever made each model. It’s based on their reamp chain levels which will be different for everyone. The only way is to ask the person who made it, or guess.
@@eds4754 Would you happen to know what the proper input levels for IK Multimedia's own captures would be in Tonex? It seems to me that even their own models are all over the place as far as setting the levels, but that could be just me.
@@elvisisdedNo idea unfortunately. They’re just as quiet on that as they are with Amplitube levels. The new Mesa ones seem to sound quite good at approx 12dBu, but then some sound very undergained so I have no confidence with that.
@@eds4754 Do you have any recommendations for Mixwave? looks like they have a Benson and Milkman amp that could be fun.
It's all a little bit complected. I mean to find out this value to each plugin. But can you do it by ear or for example by Vu meter?
You can absolutely do it by ear, but be prepared to potentially have to increase the level a lot. IMO most people who are doing it by ear are more cautious about adding a lot of level as they'll assume they're doing something wrong.
to use a VU meter to do this, you first need make a 1Vp sine wave. You cannot measure the signal from the guitar because it doesn't output a constant (or easily measurable) voltage.
What bit is difficult? what interface are you using?
@@eds4754 I see. Thank you. I am using Rme UCX II.(there is 13 db max input lvl) But it's clipping with gain at 0 with my guitars. I already bought Fireface 802 fs. (there is 21 db max input lvl). It's coming next week.
@@thanos4480 You can adjust input level in 1dB steps on RME, so whatever dBu level you go with, softube just needs that number+0.79. When it arrives I can help if you are stuck
@@eds4754 Thank's a lot Bro. U doing great work. I didn't even think the input lvl can affect the plugin so hard.
Btw did u get Red Seven amp central? I still can't find React ir. But developer says in April or May there will be new version of React released.
@@thanos4480 I don’t have a Red 7, they seem cool but I’m happy with the Suhr and React IR for now. I still use real cab loads when I can as they’re the best reference point
I don’t get it: are you putting the input level at 0?
which input level? My input headroom is at 11.4dBu. I am boosting by 12dB to get close to -0.79dBu which is the optimal level for Softube
@@eds4754 I will find out what level the UAD Apollo gives.
@@jips123 for Apollo turn the input gain on the interface all the way to the lowest, and then set Softube’s input level to 13dB
@@eds4754 thx!
Van Damme cables?
I use Van Damme/Mogami/Gotham