How refreshing to read a civil and considerate exchange between two competing interests. In part this could be because Tengisgol Angling is both a paddler and an angler. There should probably be more people with feet in both camps! But, either way, the dispute won't be settled soon. FWIW, I would love to be able to canoe on any stretch of river. I'd like to think I could be courteous towards any angler whose lines I passed.
Surely you ought to have mentioned the name of this river, which as I remember visiting when I was an airman at SM in the 1950s: The river wensum, Nice video thought.
Just for the avoidance of any doubt (and I am not passing judgment!), and having watched the footage, save for the specific entry point at Swanton Morley (which I am uncertain about) every other piece of bank/land in the footage is 100% privately owned. This includes upstream of and including Elsing Mill (and the surrounding fields), and immediately upstream of the old bridge at Lyng (both banks), and all of the land save for the road bank which you cannot reach without going onto private land. Technically, there is zero passage, and no way of traversing this route, without trespassing on private land. The creator of the footage makes reference to not being certain about whether the land is private or not, and is therefore uncertain as to whether it would be trespass, but I can unequivocally confirm that is the case. I also appreciate that trespass is a contested issue as well, so I am just pointing out the facts and not starting a debate I promise.
Thank you for the extra info! Yes, like many of the rivers in England, the riverbed is owned by landowners for large sections. Many landowners accept that paddlers have no other option than to turn back or trespass to continue downstream. And some make it easier for paddlers to cross their land. In the case of Swanton Morley to Lyng (Mill Street), they’ve kindly mowed a pathway through the weeds :) In other cases tho, such as near Harleston, they’ve placed a ‘private land’ sign and locked the gate, even though it is an established BCA route, which is a shame. Unfortunately some other river users, namely fishermen, can be very rude. But we always keep it polite. We are all there to enjoy nature and the river and we do what we can not to disturb the peace as much as possible. I believe the BCA have an active campaign to clarify the legal position of paddling a river where the riverbed is owned. England in particular, unlike Scotland and much of the EU, has a special issue with rights of navigation. Until it’s resolved, no-one really knows where they stand.
I'm not so sure the mowing was intended for the benefit of paddlers ;-). There are two schools of thought around paddling where the riverbed is owned - the BCA represents one side of the debate and the Angling Trust the other. I'm not sure it will be resolved soon because I can't see the mechanism that would be used to get a judgement. I paddle (Old Town Pack and a couple of Galaxy kayaks) plus I fish. Personally, I think we all have a common interest in healthy, clean rivers and considerate use of them for recreation and conservation. The latter of course requires time, effort and...money.
@@MrPhumm absolutely! It’s an interesting one. Tho from what I can see the BCA’s position is welcoming to all river users, whereas the Anglian Trust’s position is only welcoming to their own. But I can also understand it. It’s like the residents in the Bernard Matthew’s house. For years they’ve enjoyed their garden being private. And now they’ve got a load of visitors staring in at them. You’re right, the law does need clarifying, but it’s unlikely the change anytime soon.
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How refreshing to read a civil and considerate exchange between two competing interests. In part this could be because Tengisgol Angling is both a paddler and an angler. There should probably be more people with feet in both camps!
But, either way, the dispute won't be settled soon.
FWIW, I would love to be able to canoe on any stretch of river. I'd like to think I could be courteous towards any angler whose lines I passed.
Surely you ought to have mentioned the name of this river, which as I remember visiting when I was an airman at SM in the 1950s: The river wensum, Nice video thought.
Just for the avoidance of any doubt (and I am not passing judgment!), and having watched the footage, save for the specific entry point at Swanton Morley (which I am uncertain about) every other piece of bank/land in the footage is 100% privately owned. This includes upstream of and including Elsing Mill (and the surrounding fields), and immediately upstream of the old bridge at Lyng (both banks), and all of the land save for the road bank which you cannot reach without going onto private land. Technically, there is zero passage, and no way of traversing this route, without trespassing on private land. The creator of the footage makes reference to not being certain about whether the land is private or not, and is therefore uncertain as to whether it would be trespass, but I can unequivocally confirm that is the case. I also appreciate that trespass is a contested issue as well, so I am just pointing out the facts and not starting a debate I promise.
Thank you for the extra info!
Yes, like many of the rivers in England, the riverbed is owned by landowners for large sections.
Many landowners accept that paddlers have no other option than to turn back or trespass to continue downstream. And some make it easier for paddlers to cross their land. In the case of Swanton Morley to Lyng (Mill Street), they’ve kindly mowed a pathway through the weeds :)
In other cases tho, such as near Harleston, they’ve placed a ‘private land’ sign and locked the gate, even though it is an established BCA route, which is a shame.
Unfortunately some other river users, namely fishermen, can be very rude. But we always keep it polite. We are all there to enjoy nature and the river and we do what we can not to disturb the peace as much as possible.
I believe the BCA have an active campaign to clarify the legal position of paddling a river where the riverbed is owned.
England in particular, unlike Scotland and much of the EU, has a special issue with rights of navigation.
Until it’s resolved, no-one really knows where they stand.
I'm not so sure the mowing was intended for the benefit of paddlers ;-). There are two schools of thought around paddling where the riverbed is owned - the BCA represents one side of the debate and the Angling Trust the other. I'm not sure it will be resolved soon because I can't see the mechanism that would be used to get a judgement. I paddle (Old Town Pack and a couple of Galaxy kayaks) plus I fish. Personally, I think we all have a common interest in healthy, clean rivers and considerate use of them for recreation and conservation. The latter of course requires time, effort and...money.
@@MrPhumm absolutely!
It’s an interesting one. Tho from what I can see the BCA’s position is welcoming to all river users, whereas the Anglian Trust’s position is only welcoming to their own. But I can also understand it. It’s like the residents in the Bernard Matthew’s house. For years they’ve enjoyed their garden being private. And now they’ve got a load of visitors staring in at them.
You’re right, the law does need clarifying, but it’s unlikely the change anytime soon.