Advances in Batteries & Solar - NIGEL CALDER on the future of ENERGY GENERATION & STORAGE on boats
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- Опубликовано: 2 фев 2025
- Exciting times are coming! BoatHowTo.com expert Nigel Calder offers a glimpse into the future: New technologies for batteries and solar cells promise a radical improvement on our lifestyle on the water.
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Thanks Nigel for a succinct summary of where and how boating electrical supply/storage is heading. Exciting times for better efficiency.
That was excellent. Thank you for sharing this this information. Very worthwhile to listen to.
Very interesting and thanks for sharing 👍
Agreement here. New batteryes and solar popping up all over now. So in 5 year we for shure will lock back and see very big different
Thanks Nigel. It feels that the only way to get useful electric only boating in the nearish future is to reduce speeds to reduce the power needed. Your example of 7kW to go 6kn is apropos - what if you reduced slightly to 5.5 or 5.3 knots - the usable hours goes up significantly. Rather than an extra 10% generating capacity in solar panel efficiency, or 100% Wh/kg in battery storage which still needs generating, reducing speed a little could immediately gain 50-100% or more of actual hours on the water - which is where we want to be.
Hello Nigel, great presentation and so useful how people can do better decisions on investment in solar and batteries from near future. Thanks a lot!, Paul
Thank you for a great presentation! You have a nice way of putting things into perspective.
What about the 12 controllers shown at 59:50, are they connected to the same house bank? Do they need to be synchronized in a master-slave way or is it fine to just let them work individually?
The controllers are from Genasun. They do not need to be set up in a master/slave configuration. Essentially, as with any multi voltage regulator installation, so long as the conductors are appropriately sized ( so you don’t get confusing voltage drop issues) as the batteries come to a full state of charge the controller with the lowest voltage setting will start to ramp down first. An interesting question concerns overcurrent protection. If you parallel the output of several controllers, the combined output conductor may be significantly larger than the individual input conductors. If the output conductor is provided with overcurrent protection based on its ampacity this fuse or circuit breaker will have too high an amp rating for the input conductor to the controllers, in which case additional overcurrent protection will be required at, or close to, the input to each controller, or the input conductors will need to be increased is size (which will have the beneficial effect of minimizing voltage drop).
Toyota is on it too. Theirs is a silver-based one with much quicker charging turnaround.
Nigel, would you be able to explain the pros and cons of LTO batteries, lithium titanate oxide? Thank you for the knowledge you share
Elados,
It has been a while since I looked at LTO because I haven’t seen these batteries in the marine world and my focus tends to be pragmatic - on what is either out there or I see as potentially coming. I don’t see any marine focus on LTO. Perhaps you would like to do some research and post the results!
Nigel
If the diesel is 10% efficient when charging the battery at least in sailboat ⛵️ applications it would make sense to “motorsail” to split the diesel output between propulsion and battery charging at the optimum efficiency for the diesel itself.
A second strategy, assuming a large solar array and a smart battery management system, is to divert excess amperage above what is required to maintain the battery at full charge, to the electric propulsion motor-generator. At a minimum this will reduce prop drag and in bright conditions it would add speed and upwind performance to whatever the sails produced.
Nigel, thank you for an awesome review of the current market/engineering position of battery technology and solar panels. I’m looking to commission an electrically powered Mumby 48 for delivery in June 2025 and this information was insightful. I’m honestly thinking of purchasing home solar panels and replacing as required, as some are around 650 watts per panel, with a combined total of 3-4 kw. I would appreciate any thoughts you may have.
Best Regards
An ex Royal Navy Weapons Engineer
Home solar panels can work fine. I have some on ‘Nada’ which are now 16 years old. The key is to ensure a rigid mount with no risk of impacts. The other thing I have noticed, having recently put 14 kW of solar on a building , is the panel structures do not appear to be as strong and rigid as they were some years ago so ensuring an adequate mount is more important than ever. Whatever is done, the panel’s warranty will almost certainly be voided.
Nigel
There is a near universal acceptance that climate change exists but close to no agreement on the actual cause. As an engineer I greatly respect, i recommend you check out the research of Professor Valentina Zharkova, who has made the most progress on this question.
Nigel, your using Li-ion, where you should state LiFePO4, that leads to idiots trying to put a very dangerous chemistry on a boat. As LiFePO4 batteries are way less (negligible) likely to have thermal runaway condition.
Every time someone gets, in-cautious, shall we say, in their choice of words, the marine electricians on the marine forums, I frequent, spend enormous amounts of time educating them, to keep them from putting Li-ion batteries and flaky Battery Management Systems, on their boats. Can anyone say Fire Hazard!
I am a proponent of the Firefly batteries, for the cost/benefit ratio.
Best wishes from the far North.
Hi Carl,
Thanks for the comment. We have a disagreement on this! I use ‘li-ion’ deliberately because although LiFePO4 is inherently safer than other li-ion chemistries from a chemistry point of view and theoretically less likely to enter thermal runaway, in practice there are LiFePO4 batteries that are less safe than, for example, a well-constructed NMC battery with an effective BMS. The quality of the construction, and the appropriateness of the BMS for the specific marine application, are, to my mind, more important than the chemistry. I have, for example, a number of photos of burned up LiFePO4 batteries, and knowledge of disastrous boat fires from LiFePO4 batteries. On the other side of the ledger, there are likely now hundreds of thousands of Torqeedo batteries in marine use (I have six on my boat which have all seen hard service over a number of years), all of which use the NMC chemistry, with no significant history of thermal runaway. It’s all in the engineering… Note that this is not an endorsement of Torqeedo - I do not do endorsements - but simply a recognition of their history with li-ion batteries.
My advice to anyone contemplating li-ion is to first and foremost look for compliance with the UL 1973 standard. This is an aggressive abuse-testing standard. In my opinion, it is the gold standard with respect to li-ion batteries. If a battery can pass UL 1973, it will be safe on a boat in pretty much all circumstances. Note that my Torqeedo batteries are not UL 1973 certified. In the absence of UL 1973 certification, I recommend to only buy from a quality marine manufacturer with an extensive history of supplying reliable li-ion batteries.
There is no way I would put a ‘drop-in’ lithium-ion battery in my boat, regardless of whether or not it is LiFePO4, that is neither UL 1973 certified, nor from a reputable, long-standing marine manufacturer. If I lose this boat (I am currently cruising in the ‘Spanish Rias’), I will never again get another anywhere near as perfect as this one!
Nigel
This have bean edvanced mr expert.
Hybrid electric 🎉
Hybrid solar and diesel electric engine on 70kw feks
I dont care how good lead acid says they will get. that door is closing permanently, very quickly for many boaters including myself, as we have already upgraded to LifePO4 or will fairly soon. The trauma of owning lead acid (i even have a failed Firefly) was too great to overcome. It feels to me they are wasting valuable resources trying to squeeze just a few more drops of water from the stone.
Lead acid batteries are still the best choice for engine starter batteries.
@@bitsurfr46 Yes, i agree. I do still have a lead acid starter battery as well. I should have mentioned i was talking about house banks.
@joesmith1142 The primary barrier to owning a LiFeP2O4 battery was the cost. I don't understand how Battleborn and Dakota can continue to charge over $900 for a 100AH battery when you can get a Chinese one with good reviews for under $250. Even the last few months have seen significant declines. In June of this year, I bought a Redodo 200AH Plus for $649. I saw a sale price recently of $499. That's actually cheaper per usable watt hour than an AGM!
@@bitsurfr46 Yeah i wonder the same myself. My feeling is that they invested in Lithium early but were unlucky with their timing. I dont think anyone thought LifePo4 would advance so quickly and become so cheap. I was in the same boat. I was initially (a little over a year ago) going to spend upwards of 5K for 300Ah of lithium from Lithionics. I just spend 1.2K FOR 300 Ah's of lithium from Epoch with performance specs that blow away the Lithionics battery. I feel bad for them and hope they can survive, but its hard to compete with China on pricing when they make the cells.
global warming is but one of the 9 parameters defined that needs to be within limits to keep a habitable planet. A good deep dive is this video: ruclips.net/video/JaboF3vAsZs/видео.html
Hull design needs to improve, hydrofoil or trimeran hull will help and can resist rough seas better. Ships should stop using monohull design jts inferior and energy inefficient. Monohull is retarded progress.
Why not magneto hydogenic propulsion?✌️❤️🇬🇧