its not slowing you down. At all. its an animation. The more movespeed you have. You can tell its not slowing you down, its just turning your character. so it looks jank
It was the same in New World. If you played New World PVP melee always felt clunky because someone with a bow for instance could literally just walk away from you if you were melee and basically infinitely kite you. Every swing with melee weapon they would just get farther away. New World is not a tab target game but they tried to fix this issue in a few ways and never really were able to
I think this is one of your best articulated videos. Holding the MMO genre accountable for subpar slop that's barely passable and we eat up (including myself) because we have nothing innovative or fresh to play anymore. The games that have good things going for them are severely lacking in other areas making the games feel incomplete and dry. Or they have extremely egregious issues that outweigh the 1 thing they do right. Throne could be decent with some smoothing of the rough edges but as of right now it feels like the game is fighting against you consistently.
I appreciate that. I tried to make this one much less emotional and more actually digging in. I think throne outside of the combat at least provides alot of different kinds of content (albeit not innovative either).
@@Neeko2lo Yeah, unfortunately when you're passionate about things it's easy to get emotional. I dont mind it at all, but the general populous will discredit you just because you say something in a mean/emotional way. And yeah I think it has the basic foundation to be a good mmo but they have to fix things. I hate that things are timegated in the endgame like a gacha game limiting you to only be able to play X amount a day. And a lot of the jank bugs you talked about are just rly damning. Lots of QOL needs to happen.
@@yisunii Big reason why I cant play retail WoW too, timegating is so obnoxious. I wish someone would release a game with content for a year or two straight up.
@@GamingDualities that's bad design. I think abilities should have decent ranges default and options to make them longer range at a cost of damage or something, but range upgrades just to make abilities not feel like crap to use is just...
ArcheAge (2013) and Guild Wars 2 (2012) did tab-target combat right imo. The combat feels like you have aim assist but arent ever locked in your movement. Kinda sad that a MMO from 2024 has actually regressed instead of innovated and learned from those games.
Gw2 had actual hitboxes even if they're very large. TnL's combat model is practically all hitscan save for a very few skillshot skills so everything has the illusion of visually connecting 100% but hits or misses are actually all decided by RnG. Even if there's an enemy between you and your target your skill will ignore it and only hit your target if it's not an AOE skill.
Can they fix this though? Is it possible? I really like the game but once you are versing a ton of mobs on screen it's hard to target and switch between specific targets you want to
Well that's what you get when they turn mobile gameplay into a PC, shame because a lot of these things can't be fixed without redoing the whole thing from scratch.
The auto attack, auto moving thing is what makes me fail dungeons as a healer. Why tf my character moves towards the boss when he is not targeted when i cast foutain of life and send my character to auto attack closest enemy EVERY DAMN TIME! and the autoattack when boss teleports around but not having camera moving with the attack is what irritates me the most! I keep cancelling the attacks but they resume by themselfs when i use healing skills on my teammates... 😢
Not being able to properly kite with staff / wand kills combat for me. You barely get options to control, AND you need to be like a punch away to cast stuff. What's the point of being ranged if you always have to be close and get damage? The overall clunk of the movement and lack of build variety makes rather boring ass combat.
Great summary - I feel like so many other TL content creators just sweep the mobile game combat under the rug; for a PvP focused game especially, combat design and feel should be the number one priority.
Stop saying mobile game.... Go try Black desert mobile on a tablet with a controller and come back and tell me that mobile combat is trash.. The devs are trash.
dont u love spending 95% of your time in game doing pve in your pvp focused game? i find it hilarious every time i hear someone say this game is pvp focused
@@chelo136 Only 30 :) you are too good with them for 2024 It Is like Dead on arrival ,example aion (2012) has better combat system than TL 2024 (ncsoft). Not Mention that steam charts show about 261kk from 330kk of first week . Need Turbo buffs in combat idk if they will do did not learn something feel free to tell if you know something.
@@arristo4860 Not really. I think they remade game from scratch between Lineage eternal and project TL stages. And project TL was at first developed as a mobile auto combat game like Lineage 2M.
I wanted to love the game. I was so excited for its release. I played it and was immensely disappointed with the combat. The targeting system is so unreliable and annoying.
30 hours in and the experience was insufferable, especially with the combat and movements. The janky camera when morphing into bird makes jumping puzzles a living hell, also no traversal ability, no vaulting over obstacles and unreliable grappling hooks. The only saving grace was its environment and dynamic quests/field bosses. I just want a combat system like Blade and Souls but I guess it's too much to ask for
same. I have fun when i play it but once i stop i have no urge to comeback, im not excited, i don't think about the game when im not playing it, i guess it's not doing it for me. looks cool tho
Wait until you reach endgame where there's 70x4 vs 70x4 big alliances + randoms... around 600 players fighting around 1 boss where peak gameplay is spamming 1 button on ranged classes sping to win or flashwave.
I always play melee in every MMO but here after being used to Warrior in WoW I could not have fun. I had to pick the longbow and staff so it doesnt feel so clunky trying to hit anything.
Because this was a mobile game at the start. The whole "move to target" is the left over fragment of auto-combat feature present in almost all mobile combat games. It needs a complete overhaul of the combat and movement to make it feel even remotely playable. I think past iterations even had an "offline grind" feature and it flopped even in Korea. The land of p2w mmos.
If NCsoft just implemented an actual action combat system this game would thrive for years. The game is so immensely held back by its clunky combat and movement considering the rest of the game is pretty good. I know they don't understand that because none of the people who make the decisions for the game have ever played a video game in their lives, but they should be aware of the feedback on the combat and movement and start working on an action combat system immediately.
Not only those, some melee casters also feels horrible. Greatsword has some charge skills that sometimes when fully charged game desyncs and your character moves at it's own will to the sides of your target and resets your attack because of movement cancels casting. This not only feels horrible it also fucks up your rotation. Simply this made me quit today when it happened 4 times in a row and I couldn't do any damage.
They overcomplicated loot and gear upgrade system. You can't just sell what you drop. You have to make lithograph or trait extraction and compare prices on ah and materials for items. That's crazy stupid.
That’s one thing I agree with.. definitely need to see if there’s anything decent before you think of getting rid of it. And even plan on keeping it to trade it in for something else.
Actually I think you can sell items on AH if they have a brown border around the item, this includes gear. But the drop rate of such items are questionable
@@mystic865 Exactly this, although I didn't know about the brown border.. indicating what is tradable or not. However, I think a lot of these resellable items come in the form of crafting them apparently.
Only feels clunky early because of low attack speed stats, as soon as you get to lvl 50 and start gearing you will notice the "clunkyness" wearing off more and more. The reason is because "attack speed" in this game isnt only for auto attacks but also decides how fast you pull off your skills and how long the global CD between skills is. Im at lvl 50 with 2k GS and i can honestly say the combat is fluuuiid and smooth af, huge difference between now and early levels.
why do i need to wait for the game to get better? why can't the combat just be smooth from the get-go what is this game design where the game is frustrating on purpose and you need to arbitrarily get to the end for the game to be fun
@@abbadonmusic because progressing, evolving and feeling your character getting faster and stronger is a big part of the game. it's literally in the name, "role" playing game
Very useful and informative video. The fact that you included a clip from good old Mack (WAB), one of my favorite content creator, makes it even better. Thank you.
If only if they remove the slow down while attacking and make so that your initial attack has to be in range but your next attack has a bigger range so the slightest movement in both your enemy and your position didn't ruin any combo or attacks this game would be playable. But at this state melee just feels like I'm working a 9-5.
So your saying at 0:55 is what melee attack range should look like? Because this in no way looks like melee range. You're two if not more steps away from the target, that's not melee attack range... That's attacking from a distance, which is ranged attacking. Also when you zoom out @1:01, and have the camera behind your player, you're actually further away from the target than it looks, as you see at 1:05.
All good-feeling tab target games give you unrealistic ranges because tab target doesnt allow for nearly as much movement to compensate for it. In combination with attacks actually slowing you down or locking you in place, a higher attack range, and maybe some leeway, is necessary for it to feel smooth.
I tried the game. Tried bow, with sword shield. Moving in slow motion while auto attacking with the bow felt terrible. Immediately deleted from hard drive
If you read the ability description of Moonlight Cleave (the clunky aoe ability you were talking about around 5:00), it is actually a mini-dash of 3 meters (and the benefit of that is that it activates dagger movement related procs, such as the extra evasion passive or the dagger from lequiris passive), so that's why it requires a target. Pure AoE abilities do not. But yea the combat feels terrible and pvp is quite terrible for other reasons too, I dislike both the combat feeling but also the whole rock/paper/scissors ideology that comes from evasion stacking (coming from a WoW perspective).
tab targetting gets even worse in higher lvl dungeons packed with mobs.. trying to keep the target on the boss while its dashing out of range is a challenge on its own.
I wish they would just do a whole combat overhaul what if they can give us the type of omnidirectional movement and camera like bdo and and performance optimization fixes and fix basic attack and skill cool down and camera aming
That auto-approach on attack has existed in tab target MMOs as long as at least Lineage 2 (I think even WoW had it, I played it for a few hours then never again) or in Aion which in my eyes is still the best pure tab target combat in any MMO I have ever played. This auto-approach feature was such a skill check in highly coordinated group/raid pvp scenarios, that without it you just stood no chance against those who use it smartly, it could be used in PvE also. But this was mainly due to Aion having one of the best marking system and target marked target system, without it it would not serve much really. Reason why you cannot use many of your skills without a valid target. But I agree if your skill is an aoe/cleave like ability, then it should be free use. The melee range is fine in TnL, at least from my MMO experience it seems no different than most I have played. If anything that WoW auto attack range makes me giggle lol. Auto attack slowing you while moving forward is just a definite flaw, I agree. But I do think moving sideways for example you should be slower, backward no question. Maybe add a slow on melee auto attack hits if ranged people get no movement reduction while using skills etc. But yes, it felt like this also already in Korea when I played TnL a bit for a few weeks, there is just this weird lack of smoothness. Also, when you tried to charge over the stairs to the roof. That is so common, where the game just checks if anything is under you. Just tell me, when you do an dash on striker in BDO from a roof down, what happens? Hell even if you just dash from a more inclined hill side from the high ground downward. In most games I have played this only works if the ability you use is a blink, and not a dash. I still prefer the GW2 way. I do think also the "best" combat with the most freedom is in GW2, for me that finishing blow on "dead" targets has killed it though.
WoW does not have the auto move, and never had it, just fyi. Auto move is a massive advantage for those who use it but also restricts player agency and movement. (I never played Aion) As you describe it Aion had the best tab "targeting", not necessarily the best tab "combat." And thats why Gw2 is so good. Because it gives the player the freedom of movement instead of taking it away like Aion or Throne. And I also agree that BDOs movement has its limitations but, since its not tab targeting, allows for plenty more freedom in actions than a tab target game could. (I would give Gw2 combat a 6/10 and BDO a 6.5/10 if I had to put a number on it, but thats basically only because of action combat vs tab targeting)
@@Neeko2lo I actually wrote that i think Aion had the best pure tab target "combat". It also had auto-approach with absoloute freedom of movement, apart from a very few skills maybe locking you in place due to animation. In Aion it was possible to do what you did in GW2, where you jump at the edge and turn around preventing to fall down. I have killed many hundreds if not low thousands with this in Aion kek. I definitely think Aion was ahead at its time, but as most NCSoft/Korean MMOs it has met its end by retarded game designs and p2w. ruclips.net/video/pMhdbPolr74/видео.html this was vanilla combat in Aion, with somewhat endgame attack speed. Aion had no global cooldown, you were limited by your animation speed and proper animation cancels only.
this game was so bad that they removed the lineage name from it , ncsoft tought that having the lineage name on it was that bad for the lineage brand , but they were so deep already that the game had to release so they just slapped a name change on it, this move right here just fucking tells everyone what is going on but like every other triple AAA game you will have all of these emotional andys defending it because they are already too invested "you get used to it " my favourite line, they indirectly told us the game was bad before it got out ,we saw that the game was bad when it came out ,even koreans saw the game was bad and its failing on korea ,game gets to global and you have this horde of losers acting like the game is good give me a break , tired of these 2/10 games were ppl act like they are 7,9/10 if "you get used to it".
@@truthseeker7172 none, the last mmo that i enjoyed was lost ark cuz of the combat but it was obvious that the game was cooked form the core , and if i played other mmos right now it would only be if my group of friends wanted to play, most mmos nowadays have a 70% cons to 30 % pros ratio and thats sad
@@jamenba1 Last MMO that I enjoyed was BnS cause of its unique action combat and movement system. Throne and Liberty feels like a cheap mobile game in comparison
Tab target in 2024... Unbelievable. By the way a cringy anime game called Aura Kingdom had the best Tab target combat i have ever seen in an mmo. It was so satisfying that you wish you were grinding and fighting enemies all the time. Don't undesrtand why MMO's almost always just fail at combat and gameplay design.
The reason why it feel cluncky is because the game originally was planned to be played in Autoplay, and with mobile support. So like L2m or Lineage 2 you mostly fight in position. After the Open Beta in Korea held in May and People complaining about the battle feeling bad and mobile like, they went quickly to change it so you can move and attack. I think devs rushed this and they didnt polish it in order for Melee to feel better
I'm enjoying TL, but coming from Gw2 (my main MMO that I'll still be playing xD) the combat feels so clunky and annoying. The problem is the original design they had in mind and there are many limitations with the engine, UE4 is not the greatest at movement fluidity, but even then, since the original design was a mobile game the transition is rougher even. I'll still play for while probably cuz I like to play other MMOs when I get burn out of the grind for legendaries in Gw2 haha but sadly this is yet another new MMO that doesn't come close to Gw2. I say it because I'd like something more fresh to play, while I love Gw2, the PvP has been so abandoned in the game that I'd like another PvP MMO to rise up (the combat in Gw2 is just unmatched, at least in the tab-target category)
TL couldn't have competed even in 2006 with other games, having combat mechanics like this (and many many more other dumb gameplay decisions in place). There is not a single good thing in this half-baked semi-mobile joke of a game.
It's possible for them to revamp the combat system-they've done it before. The game used to be an auto-combat mobile game, but they improved both the combat and graphics. So why can't they do it again, especially now that the game is gaining recognition from many players?
for me, i would say dungeons are too punishing, way too many one shot mechanics and people just don't know, or are not willing to learn, how to deal with them. It is a terrible experience running dungeons outside a full guild group right now
Ah, thank you for pointing out some of these design "issues"! I could not put my finger on what felt off, but I believe you have summarized it well. Also, I feel that they have attempted to integrate design features from multiple styles of mmo's and they did not implement this integration very smoothly. When playing, I can see a little bit of Elder Scrolls here (especially weapon-swapping), and a little bit of FFXIV there, and then some SWTOR, and then some WoW, etc. While I appreciate their attempt, in any one scenario it's not done as well as any of the aforementioned titles. On the one hand, it seems as if it may have been done for the sake of garnering a player base from other mmo's whose players are accustomed to a very specific set of options. For example, going from FFXIV to SWTOR, both tab targeting games, while similar, have many nuances that require some amount of acclimation. However, going from either of those to a more action-oriented ESO, or BDO even, is quite different. Perhaps they intended to make that easier? On the other hand, in most cases, it just feels like a lack of direction or identity. It is as if NCSoft was not sure what they wanted to do, so they did a little bit of everything, poorly. And, did this the intention of their development team? Or is this more of a marketing gimmick?
I think the main reason is probably their transition from an auto-play combat to a proper pc/console combat system. They saw the game being very poorly received in beta due to the combat and hastily tried to remedy it. And thank you!
I played TaL for 186 hours. I mainly did it for a buddy of mine. Ya, this is the most clonky combat pretty much ever. No one even plays the game anymore, now. The 'MMO Vets' that we got were like, 'why is this so BAD?' That's because it is. I will be contrarian here to say that maybe they did on purpose. Maybe they want a more 'traditional' experience. This is done in all the wrong ways. This game spent 12 years in development and they couldn't fix their Tab Targeting? They couldn't fix how tanking is so bad with aggro and PvE dungeons that require you to just pull EVERYTHING and hope for the best? They couldn't think about how fun it is to heal when any heal is not on a 10 second timer. Combat is BAD. I love this game's beauty. I love that it FEELS like a real MMO with cities that look like housing and NPCs that talk and feel alive. I like the decent gameplay loop of Contracts and Open-World Dungeons. All of these things won't save this game.
I really enjoyed ESO still do on occasion but people tired of it because of the gameplay. T&L could go the same way. Good came but the clunky combat can turn a lot of people off. The combat of a game is like the number 1 priority or should be.
it was designed as such. they removed the autoplay after the western audience complained about it. because apparently people from the west would rather waste their time grinding all day
About the auto attack around 3:38 its a kitting mechanics that avoid close range player. If you are coming from wow i undestand but you have to undestand too the fact that throne and liberty are a much complicate game in term of game mechanics. You are complaining on this because you came from game like wow but this is totally normal et lore accurate that you are not reaching him at 2 meter from him.
Really good and valid points your brought up this time. I am only level 26 and I have experienced almost all of this already. It may sound like nitpicking, but every detail adds up to a mediocre combat experience
why they can't do a mmo with combat sytem similar to BDO? that is the best combat system in the entire MMO era , i was so waiting for this game and is so bad omg , is annoyingly bad the combat
There is a check box to stop you from falling off a ledge. Unchecked it will be just like GW2. I do agree with all of your other points about the combat needing polish.
I didnt use that setting in that video. I guess it would prevent me from falling by simply stopping me at an edge but dashes arent affected by it it seems
1-The targeting system is so horrible I can't get over it. 2- To many classes have to many ccs (not just one but multiple ccs) and going against certain classes in arena feels awful you sit in cc forever even with trinkets. 3-World clan pvp is awful its all about who can get sleeps off (CC) so your whole team can be mowed down in seconds. 4- I'm high evasion and 13k hp and I still get one shot which seems to be a asian mmo thing and feels awful. I have spent like 10 bucks and of course the game is free and I got alot of fun out of that for a small price so I guess I can't complain but this is def not for me long term. I consider this a bandaid mmo to get me thru to another game whatever that may be.
I think my review would be just the same as everyone elses so: Retail WoW is incredibly formulaic but polished and clean. It doesnt do anything super well or super poorly. 0 Risk game by the devs and that also makes it pretty repetitive especially including all the time gating. So I would give it around a 5/10
I also hate the CC mechanics where you get perma stunned to death, stun resistance is useless, but you can avoid both attack dmg and CCs with Evasion. But past blue equipment, to get your evasion with purples you have to be a hc gamer or mad swiper.
I think the combat in the game is fine while I do understand y ppl think it feels clunky. The game basically doesnt encourage players to move while attacking like how in wow if u r melee ppl basically jump and rotate camera 360 every 2 seconds but attacks will land smoothly. Also the fact that NC intentionally makes attack motions skip fps to give some roughness and make attacks feel faster paced which they have been doing since lineage 2 adds to that feeling of clunkiness. I dont mind it as much as I feel like if the combat feels a bit too smooth it lacks that crispy hitting sensation but one thing that i HATE abt the combat system is how when u cast a spell and the mob walks off of range, it tells u at the end of casting and wastes ur time
I tried playing GW2 but I lost interest because I can't stand that when I move, my character moves first before it starts taking a step. I looks like it's sliding before it takes it's first step.
I've played a lot of MMOs, from the most basic to the most popular, but even in the worst MMOs, the control system makes more sense than in this game. It's 2024, and auto attack and parry are mapped to the keyboard while there's an action mode in the game? Did the developers even play an MMO before they started making this?
Excellent video. I thought the T&L weapon swap vs. bar abilities was a bit weird when I started playing, so thank you for articulating it. It is weird having daggers equipped and using greatsword abilities, and vice versa. The way weapon swapping in Elder Scrolls Online makes a lot more sense to me. You get 5 abilities for a weapon, then when you switch to a different weapon, you are then presented with 5 abilities for that weapon. This makes a lot more sense than using abilities for a weapon you don't have in your hands in T&L. The really nice thing about how ESO does it is also that you get 10 abilities but you only have to press keys 1-5 on the keyboard instead of 1-10.
Bro you have a double teleport stun ability which you can combo, and increase its duration, if you build wisdom and other cooldown traits your problem is solved. You just realized that in this game ( like any other) ranged is OP. The games bas its problems, but when I discovered that it can stun and double teleport, its just a matter of play style. Im dagger and SnS, I can DoT/Tank/Support, so Idk. Works a lot in PvP btw
Haven’t seen any p2w in any situation that would matter lol.. delusional dumbass. Even if there is a slight advantage, all PvP content is safe deaths anyway. Games actually good.
First day or two in early access I got recruited into a guild. Turns out to be a solid team.. Now I’m sitting on multiple best in slot gear and the grinds only getting easier.
@@redrepublic5557 Most people have literally no how the progression in this game works, its all about being in a good guild and grinding with a good team.
TnL isn't good. It's not bad, but it isn't good. It's very un-fun to control and play. Everything feels artificially limited in some way, and I know that's by design. P2W doesn't have to = terrible systems, but that kind of profit-only development lends to this stuff.
What are you talking about 😂😂😂 the game has more "things" in it and done better than any other game in the market right now, aside from combat and movement which will be probably improved. You people just like to yapp because other people are doing the same so like the sheeps you are you HAVE to be part of the herd
@@brunolimaj7129 I don't think you're a serious person if you actually think that having more "stuff" is better and that you can call an MMO with bad movement and combat "better than any other game in the market right now." Well, the market sucks. That doesn't give TnL a pass for the MANY things it does poorly in a genre that has been around for decades. You're probably just too young to remember when games were decent.
@@uruk_bye1232 aside from movement and combat ( arguable anyway, not a fact that they are bad right now) what else is missing or done "wrong" ? You can't add anything other than personal pet peeves. Im tired of sweaty nerds who throw sh at other games just because they're not the exact copy of wow or FF. Both of those games are dog sh by the way....
@@brunolimaj7129 Movement is relatively slow and laggy. Movement is just clunky and slow compared to games like BDO and is even less compelling than GW2. Combat is just GW2. PVP is zerg rush and ranged AOEs only for the most common type of PVP content. Progression for non-Guild content is severely limited, so the loop of contract completion and avoiding conflict zones during the grinding process is just....repetitive, dull, and feels pointless. Auction house is premium currency only, and you're not allowed to even sell crafting mats to people. No trade. It's all RNG. It's p2W game and is made inconvenient in a number of ways to encourage you to swipe. It's not a *bad* game, but it's not good either. I don't see why I should feel really positive about it and give them as much benefit of the doubt as you are when I've seen everything they're doing done better in older games like GW 1 and 2, WoW, WAR, Tera, ArcheAge, LostArk, etc etc etc. You may be tired of people complaining, and I hate that for you, sport. But games aren't getting better, so we're going to keep complaining.
@@uruk_bye1232 those are valid points, not all of them tho, for example the pvp being zerg vs zerg and mostly ranged aoe is basically every mmo out there ( also not entirely true that melee do not have a spot in mass pvp , while the ZvZ thing is to be expected when there are 10k people on the same server, of course there's gonna be chaos and the guild/alliance that dominates will get all the cake, thats how it works even in real life). Other than that not being able to trade is a huge no for me too. I played Lineage 2 back in the gold era and want this game to succeed so much, even tho it only has the smell of L2 but not much else. I'm still gonna sip some copium and hope they will introduce trade, offer other ways for no-guild-progression , drastically improve movement and combat. If it manages to do these things i dont see why it shouldn't succeed
One thing to add that's really annoying is having all your spells on CD. That should never happen in an MMO. Make some spells less powerful and lower their CDs to 1-2 seconds or just remove the CD.
coming from gw2, I can confidently say, gw2 have the best movement in the mmorp tab target genre. it is so SMOOTH. and the combat is fun as hell. the abilities intertwind with one another, and as you say, you have a lot of reaction options. almost nothing lock you in place. everything is so smooth.
@@australienski6687 of course, with keeping everything that make gw2 great totally agree. removing loading screens, improving a little the graphics(keeping the style though), it will become absolute S tier game.
The game is straight up a god send..... and then there is the combat from 2004. I just can't play this game for more than 10-20 min. Combat is the most important feature in a game to do right, if it's garbage, people won't stick with it for too long.
the worst thing about combat is how slow skills unlock and how long some cooldowns are they could definitely work on the pacing you get "new" skills and maybe work on adding skills later to the base game considering they have ideas on weapons theyre adding in presumably soon
Maybe they can change the targeting to similar kind of league/dota? I just dont like the targeting the system of the game. Its soo bad even and yeah range have huge advantage on this game.
I think the skill specialization was a great addition for build making but the fundamental combat doesnt really change too much through. (some abilties more some not at all)
i'll just wait for archeage while playing this, seems pretty good from trailer alone, and feel like 2025 ish game rather than TAL that was 1 decade behind. Not saying TAL is bad tho, it's alright, co-op dungeon is quite fun actually if they allow us to run more than 3/day that would be nice.
0:26 of course it will work like that and that doesn't make ther game a "mobile game", it was like that in Lineage II a previous game from NC soft. Throne and Liberty was initially a lineage II successor
Throne and Liberty, aka Lineage Eternal, was supposed to be a successor to Lineage 1. This game isn't supposed to be a successor to anything. It's a slop they scrapped together after 12 years of development hell.
Couldn't agree more. Game feels clunky af. The systems (upgrading, transfering, etc.) are so simple and lack depth imo?! (im coming from lost ark so maybe they just messed me up with their 100 systems to get stronger). The PvE content is too easy, you can only judge some1 by their weapon upgrade and trait (making the rest of the gear feel less worth to get BiS imo). I dont weigh that aspect as a hard negative tho, since this game focuses more on PvP (which you only do in like 20% of the time, the rest is PvE). It has terrible desyncs and bugs and just really needs a lot of polishing to feel smooth. Dont get me starting on jumping over small terrain or walls.
Very good video im pleasured as an old school wow player to see that someone points the exact little but good things about fun playstyle. Still Console/Pc it says so there is no hope to get much better.. I just accept it that way have fun and see what happens. Overall my life doesnt depend on a computer game. 😊
My top 2 games will always be BDO & GW2. BDO = Best action combat I've ever tried GW2 = Best tab target combat ever. I'm sad devs dont look at the games with good combat reputation and try to make it feel as good or... better? (though that might be hard) I played 20 minutes of T&L, mouse movement felt terrible, quit and uninstalled. Found out Mouse Smoothing was forced, edited input.ini to remove that stupid shit and tried again. 72 minutes in and it just feels bad and subpar to any other mmos... I've copied "the best combat settings" to make the game feel "better", but it just feels weird. BDO for example started out slow, but you can see the direction of combat. Every level makes you "faster", you can combo. Level 56, okay awakening/succession. Hit lvl 60, every combo available and it just feels super smooth to play. And I would argue to say the same with GW2. It just gets better the more you progress but still starts out at a good baseline. Throne just feels.. Clunky and bad from the get go and when I watch end-game footage it still looks shit. Can't believe it's soon 2025 and this is what we get.
No, thanks dude but you’re looking at it backwards. As far as Mail goes the first abilities in your tool kit should be buffed and the next ability when you’re ready to attack should be some kind of movement ability to get you close and those generally have the ability to extend the range quite a bit And your mail if you’re using mail is your main weapon then you should be running up to the target close to target anyway it’s range that’s really I mean you’re talking about mainly you’re talking about face-to-face fighting range. That’s really screwed in that equation, crossbow and boat it’s like 16 m and that’s ridiculous in real life. I shoot at greater distances than that.
I downloaded and tried the game today.. Finished the tutorial then uninstalled. My friend was upset because I got them to download and try it with me, but the game feels very bad to play. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks the combat was made by someone who has no idea how to do mmo combat. EDIT: Like why can I not have the game auto-switch hotbars with weapon swapping? You mean to tell me you want me to have all my abilities on one bar OR manually switch bars every time I weapon swap? If I'm wrong, please tell me, but I didn't see that as an option which seems like an obvious must-have feature and I can't believe it's not in the game. The devs truly have no idea what they're doing.
I don't think you're understanding the system that you don't need to manually switch the weapons in order to use the skills from your off-hand. Switching your hotbar is intended to switch to a completely different skill loadout, e.g. PVE, PVO, world boss. Nit Just give you access to abilities that weren't on your first hotbar. I think 12 skills is a good balance versus some of the other weapon-based games only allow between 3 and 5 skills.
My problem with the combat is that it just does not flow. The cooldowns are really long it just feels janky and disjointed. The AoE is very small it just doesn't feel good.
Gw 2 is masterpiece after Complete whole story with dlc and jump to this game i have zero interesy in korea pve grbg history when all u fo is presing F u don't fell even conected with World 0 immerssion
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
I have double and triple checked the auto attacks slowing you down now and I can confirm that it does! What a weird "feature"
The attack range seems very large. In many other games you have to be almost inside
Lol the attack range in throne is more realistic, wow is cartoon range
its not slowing you down. At all. its an animation. The more movespeed you have. You can tell its not slowing you down, its just turning your character. so it looks jank
It was the same in New World. If you played New World PVP melee always felt clunky because someone with a bow for instance could literally just walk away from you if you were melee and basically infinitely kite you. Every swing with melee weapon they would just get farther away. New World is not a tab target game but they tried to fix this issue in a few ways and never really were able to
How is it weird? i think running full speed while attacking is weird... who does that?
I think this is one of your best articulated videos. Holding the MMO genre accountable for subpar slop that's barely passable and we eat up (including myself) because we have nothing innovative or fresh to play anymore. The games that have good things going for them are severely lacking in other areas making the games feel incomplete and dry. Or they have extremely egregious issues that outweigh the 1 thing they do right. Throne could be decent with some smoothing of the rough edges but as of right now it feels like the game is fighting against you consistently.
I appreciate that. I tried to make this one much less emotional and more actually digging in. I think throne outside of the combat at least provides alot of different kinds of content (albeit not innovative either).
@@Neeko2lo Yeah, unfortunately when you're passionate about things it's easy to get emotional. I dont mind it at all, but the general populous will discredit you just because you say something in a mean/emotional way. And yeah I think it has the basic foundation to be a good mmo but they have to fix things. I hate that things are timegated in the endgame like a gacha game limiting you to only be able to play X amount a day. And a lot of the jank bugs you talked about are just rly damning. Lots of QOL needs to happen.
@@yisunii Big reason why I cant play retail WoW too, timegating is so obnoxious. I wish someone would release a game with content for a year or two straight up.
ranged is like having a fucking spear. whats the point of having freaking crossbows if i gotta fire them 5 inches from the bosses knee
also felt that
Yeah staff and wand feel terrible too for that exact reason. Why am I supposed to launch a fireball from such a close range?
@@Barcia14 u can upgrade their specilazation for more range etc
Yeah, it's so trash. I wanted to do crossbow/bow and when I realized how short the distance was, I was like "Forget it. This is bullshit."
@@GamingDualities that's bad design. I think abilities should have decent ranges default and options to make them longer range at a cost of damage or something, but range upgrades just to make abilities not feel like crap to use is just...
ArcheAge (2013) and Guild Wars 2 (2012) did tab-target combat right imo. The combat feels like you have aim assist but arent ever locked in your movement. Kinda sad that a MMO from 2024 has actually regressed instead of innovated and learned from those games.
if they made a few tiny easy to make changes to make combat more like gw2 would be so appreciate
GW2 combat is legit really really good. Slept on mmo imho.
Actually hard for me to play any other MMo after gw2 every tab target Feels like shit :DD
people stop forgetting this is a mobile game lolol what do you expect
Gw2 had actual hitboxes even if they're very large. TnL's combat model is practically all hitscan save for a very few skillshot skills so everything has the illusion of visually connecting 100% but hits or misses are actually all decided by RnG. Even if there's an enemy between you and your target your skill will ignore it and only hit your target if it's not an AOE skill.
Can they fix this though? Is it possible? I really like the game but once you are versing a ton of mobs on screen it's hard to target and switch between specific targets you want to
Yeah the whole combat/movement system feels very very very weird imo
Well that's what you get when they turn mobile gameplay into a PC, shame because a lot of these things can't be fixed without redoing the whole thing from scratch.
The auto attack, auto moving thing is what makes me fail dungeons as a healer. Why tf my character moves towards the boss when he is not targeted when i cast foutain of life and send my character to auto attack closest enemy EVERY DAMN TIME! and the autoattack when boss teleports around but not having camera moving with the attack is what irritates me the most! I keep cancelling the attacks but they resume by themselfs when i use healing skills on my teammates... 😢
Thank you for this amazing summary. This is exactly why the combat feels so bad. In my opinion a MMO will rise and fall with combat.
Not being able to properly kite with staff / wand kills combat for me. You barely get options to control, AND you need to be like a punch away to cast stuff. What's the point of being ranged if you always have to be close and get damage? The overall clunk of the movement and lack of build variety makes rather boring ass combat.
The combat feels so outdated. They announced the game back in 2011 and it feels like it.
Great summary - I feel like so many other TL content creators just sweep the mobile game combat under the rug; for a PvP focused game especially, combat design and feel should be the number one priority.
Stop saying mobile game.... Go try Black desert mobile on a tablet with a controller and come back and tell me that mobile combat is trash.. The devs are trash.
dont u love spending 95% of your time in game doing pve in your pvp focused game? i find it hilarious every time i hear someone say this game is pvp focused
consquence of a mobile game that shifted into computer,console release during the development cycle -> clunky af
PC top down -> mobile -> rework ->3D it was something like this
Is a g2w mobile version but just 30 times worst
@@chelo136 Only 30 :) you are too good with them for 2024 It Is like Dead on arrival ,example aion (2012) has better combat system than TL 2024 (ncsoft). Not Mention that steam charts show about 261kk from 330kk of first week . Need Turbo buffs in combat idk if they will do did not learn something feel free to tell if you know something.
It was a top down lost ark competitor first. Was supposed to be cross play on all devices then they transitioned to third person
@@arristo4860 Not really. I think they remade game from scratch between Lineage eternal and project TL stages. And project TL was at first developed as a mobile auto combat game like Lineage 2M.
I wanted to love the game. I was so excited for its release. I played it and was immensely disappointed with the combat. The targeting system is so unreliable and annoying.
What mmorpg do you prefer atm?
Was also gonna ask which MMO he plays lmao.. this shit brings back original RuneScape nostalgia
30 hours in and the experience was insufferable, especially with the combat and movements. The janky camera when morphing into bird makes jumping puzzles a living hell, also no traversal ability, no vaulting over obstacles and unreliable grappling hooks. The only saving grace was its environment and dynamic quests/field bosses. I just want a combat system like Blade and Souls but I guess it's too much to ask for
same. I have fun when i play it but once i stop i have no urge to comeback, im not excited, i don't think about the game when im not playing it, i guess it's not doing it for me. looks cool tho
Wait until you reach endgame where there's 70x4 vs 70x4 big alliances + randoms... around 600 players fighting around 1 boss where peak gameplay is spamming 1 button on ranged classes sping to win or flashwave.
I always play melee in every MMO but here after being used to Warrior in WoW I could not have fun. I had to pick the longbow and staff so it doesnt feel so clunky trying to hit anything.
just slap the jump thinggy from GW2 on, the combat from Tera Online or Lost Ark x Action combat into TL, then should be aite
@@Axely what’s crazy is years ago it was Lost Ark x Action combat then they scrapped it all for this..
In a perfect world(not the game). Sadly this ain't it
So what you're saying is Throne and Liberty has NO liberty, well okay then
Because this was a mobile game at the start. The whole "move to target" is the left over fragment of auto-combat feature present in almost all mobile combat games. It needs a complete overhaul of the combat and movement to make it feel even remotely playable. I think past iterations even had an "offline grind" feature and it flopped even in Korea. The land of p2w mmos.
If NCsoft just implemented an actual action combat system this game would thrive for years. The game is so immensely held back by its clunky combat and movement considering the rest of the game is pretty good. I know they don't understand that because none of the people who make the decisions for the game have ever played a video game in their lives, but they should be aware of the feedback on the combat and movement and start working on an action combat system immediately.
This is really good feedback some of what you have mentioned i didnt notice myself. Hope they receive this and make the necessary adjustments/fixes.
ty!
I was thinking the whole yesterday, why exactly the melee combat feels so off to me... This explained everything :D
Some Friends Insisted to play this, after 3 hours I was well thats why they have 270kk people peak hour(steam charts) .....melee combat is a meme 😓
such a pretty game...sad that it is plagued by so many bad design decesions and the combat is unbearable.
What mmorpg do you prefer atm?
@@truthseeker7172I went back to GW2, the loading screens suck but the combat is so much better.
@@australienski6687 Skill issue
@@re-Rina yes the skills in T&L suck, so I agree it's a skill issue.
@@truthseeker7172 New world is better
Yeah the game has potential but the combat and the targeting as well is really bad nowadays
Not only those, some melee casters also feels horrible. Greatsword has some charge skills that sometimes when fully charged game desyncs and your character moves at it's own will to the sides of your target and resets your attack because of movement cancels casting. This not only feels horrible it also fucks up your rotation. Simply this made me quit today when it happened 4 times in a row and I couldn't do any damage.
They overcomplicated loot and gear upgrade system. You can't just sell what you drop. You have to make lithograph or trait extraction and compare prices on ah and materials for items. That's crazy stupid.
That’s one thing I agree with.. definitely need to see if there’s anything decent before you think of getting rid of it. And even plan on keeping it to trade it in for something else.
Actually I think you can sell items on AH if they have a brown border around the item, this includes gear. But the drop rate of such items are questionable
@@GravyFlavy it's very rare to get item that you can sell on ah
@@mystic865 Exactly this, although I didn't know about the brown border.. indicating what is tradable or not. However, I think a lot of these resellable items come in the form of crafting them apparently.
Bro bdo does the same
thing. Stop hating to hate. Actually know wat ur talking about. Most eastern mmos have unnecessary system like that.
You were able to articulate exactly what I'm feeling about this game
Only feels clunky early because of low attack speed stats, as soon as you get to lvl 50 and start gearing you will notice the "clunkyness" wearing off more and more. The reason is because "attack speed" in this game isnt only for auto attacks but also decides how fast you pull off your skills and how long the global CD between skills is. Im at lvl 50 with 2k GS and i can honestly say the combat is fluuuiid and smooth af, huge difference between now and early levels.
My experience was the opposite, the game feels way worse at level 50.
Keep telling this yourself. It still looks and plays animations like you are playing dragon’s raja.
why do i need to wait for the game to get better? why can't the combat just be smooth from the get-go what is this game design where the game is frustrating on purpose and you need to arbitrarily get to the end for the game to be fun
@@abbadonmusic because progressing, evolving and feeling your character getting faster and stronger is a big part of the game. it's literally in the name, "role" playing game
@@SweHisatsu That's not what "role" means.
Very useful and informative video. The fact that you included a clip from good old Mack (WAB), one of my favorite content creator, makes it even better. Thank you.
If only if they remove the slow down while attacking and make so that your initial attack has to be in range but your next attack has a bigger range so the slightest movement in both your enemy and your position didn't ruin any combo or attacks this game would be playable. But at this state melee just feels like I'm working a 9-5.
So your saying at 0:55 is what melee attack range should look like? Because this in no way looks like melee range. You're two if not more steps away from the target, that's not melee attack range... That's attacking from a distance, which is ranged attacking. Also when you zoom out @1:01, and have the camera behind your player, you're actually further away from the target than it looks, as you see at 1:05.
All good-feeling tab target games give you unrealistic ranges because tab target doesnt allow for nearly as much movement to compensate for it. In combination with attacks actually slowing you down or locking you in place, a higher attack range, and maybe some leeway, is necessary for it to feel smooth.
I tried the game. Tried bow, with sword shield. Moving in slow motion while auto attacking with the bow felt terrible. Immediately deleted from hard drive
If you read the ability description of Moonlight Cleave (the clunky aoe ability you were talking about around 5:00), it is actually a mini-dash of 3 meters (and the benefit of that is that it activates dagger movement related procs, such as the extra evasion passive or the dagger from lequiris passive), so that's why it requires a target. Pure AoE abilities do not. But yea the combat feels terrible and pvp is quite terrible for other reasons too, I dislike both the combat feeling but also the whole rock/paper/scissors ideology that comes from evasion stacking (coming from a WoW perspective).
tab targetting gets even worse in higher lvl dungeons packed with mobs.. trying to keep the target on the boss while its dashing out of range is a challenge on its own.
Oct 15th new world! @Neeko ya Got some Guides coming for NW??
I wish they would just do a whole combat overhaul what if they can give us the type of omnidirectional movement and camera like bdo and and performance optimization fixes and fix basic attack and skill cool down and camera aming
That auto-approach on attack has existed in tab target MMOs as long as at least Lineage 2 (I think even WoW had it, I played it for a few hours then never again) or in Aion which in my eyes is still the best pure tab target combat in any MMO I have ever played. This auto-approach feature was such a skill check in highly coordinated group/raid pvp scenarios, that without it you just stood no chance against those who use it smartly, it could be used in PvE also. But this was mainly due to Aion having one of the best marking system and target marked target system, without it it would not serve much really. Reason why you cannot use many of your skills without a valid target. But I agree if your skill is an aoe/cleave like ability, then it should be free use.
The melee range is fine in TnL, at least from my MMO experience it seems no different than most I have played. If anything that WoW auto attack range makes me giggle lol. Auto attack slowing you while moving forward is just a definite flaw, I agree. But I do think moving sideways for example you should be slower, backward no question. Maybe add a slow on melee auto attack hits if ranged people get no movement reduction while using skills etc.
But yes, it felt like this also already in Korea when I played TnL a bit for a few weeks, there is just this weird lack of smoothness.
Also, when you tried to charge over the stairs to the roof. That is so common, where the game just checks if anything is under you. Just tell me, when you do an dash on striker in BDO from a roof down, what happens? Hell even if you just dash from a more inclined hill side from the high ground downward. In most games I have played this only works if the ability you use is a blink, and not a dash. I still prefer the GW2 way.
I do think also the "best" combat with the most freedom is in GW2, for me that finishing blow on "dead" targets has killed it though.
WoW does not have the auto move, and never had it, just fyi.
Auto move is a massive advantage for those who use it but also restricts player agency and movement. (I never played Aion) As you describe it Aion had the best tab "targeting", not necessarily the best tab "combat." And thats why Gw2 is so good. Because it gives the player the freedom of movement instead of taking it away like Aion or Throne.
And I also agree that BDOs movement has its limitations but, since its not tab targeting, allows for plenty more freedom in actions than a tab target game could. (I would give Gw2 combat a 6/10 and BDO a 6.5/10 if I had to put a number on it, but thats basically only because of action combat vs tab targeting)
@@Neeko2lo I actually wrote that i think Aion had the best pure tab target "combat". It also had auto-approach with absoloute freedom of movement, apart from a very few skills maybe locking you in place due to animation. In Aion it was possible to do what you did in GW2, where you jump at the edge and turn around preventing to fall down. I have killed many hundreds if not low thousands with this in Aion kek. I definitely think Aion was ahead at its time, but as most NCSoft/Korean MMOs it has met its end by retarded game designs and p2w.
ruclips.net/video/pMhdbPolr74/видео.html this was vanilla combat in Aion, with somewhat endgame attack speed. Aion had no global cooldown, you were limited by your animation speed and proper animation cancels only.
been playing mmo's since 2005 and its sad this is the new shit we getting. Absolute trash
it is annoying how when i use one of the melee skill abilities up against a trash mob… I end up going the opposite direction, missing the mob like wtf
Weapon swapping changes what weapon mastery is active
I love action combat, after about an hour of playing you realize pretty quick it’s clunky and inefficient in T&L
this game was so bad that they removed the lineage name from it , ncsoft tought that having the lineage name on it was that bad for the lineage brand , but they were so deep already that the game had to release so they just slapped a name change on it, this move right here just fucking tells everyone what is going on but like every other triple AAA game you will have all of these emotional andys defending it because they are already too invested "you get used to it " my favourite line, they indirectly told us the game was bad before it got out ,we saw that the game was bad when it came out ,even koreans saw the game was bad and its failing on korea ,game gets to global and you have this horde of losers acting like the game is good give me a break , tired of these 2/10 games were ppl act like they are 7,9/10 if "you get used to it".
What mmorpg do you prefer atm?
Truth bomb right here
@@truthseeker7172 none, the last mmo that i enjoyed was lost ark cuz of the combat but it was obvious that the game was cooked form the core , and if i played other mmos right now it would only be if my group of friends wanted to play, most mmos nowadays have a 70% cons to 30 % pros ratio and thats sad
@@jamenba1 Last MMO that I enjoyed was BnS cause of its unique action combat and movement system. Throne and Liberty feels like a cheap mobile game in comparison
Tab target in 2024... Unbelievable. By the way a cringy anime game called Aura Kingdom had the best Tab target combat i have ever seen in an mmo. It was so satisfying that you wish you were grinding and fighting enemies all the time. Don't undesrtand why MMO's almost always just fail at combat and gameplay design.
I was hyped for this game only to find out combat is completely unplayable for me. I was expecting lost ark Action lol. Boy was I disappointed
are these fixable are they planning to fix them at all?
probably, no idea if they will though
The reason why it feel cluncky is because the game originally was planned to be played in Autoplay, and with mobile support. So like L2m or Lineage 2 you mostly fight in position.
After the Open Beta in Korea held in May and People complaining about the battle feeling bad and mobile like, they went quickly to change it so you can move and attack. I think devs rushed this and they didnt polish it in order for Melee to feel better
I'm enjoying TL, but coming from Gw2 (my main MMO that I'll still be playing xD) the combat feels so clunky and annoying. The problem is the original design they had in mind and there are many limitations with the engine, UE4 is not the greatest at movement fluidity, but even then, since the original design was a mobile game the transition is rougher even. I'll still play for while probably cuz I like to play other MMOs when I get burn out of the grind for legendaries in Gw2 haha but sadly this is yet another new MMO that doesn't come close to Gw2. I say it because I'd like something more fresh to play, while I love Gw2, the PvP has been so abandoned in the game that I'd like another PvP MMO to rise up (the combat in Gw2 is just unmatched, at least in the tab-target category)
TL couldn't have competed even in 2006 with other games, having combat mechanics like this (and many many more other dumb gameplay decisions in place). There is not a single good thing in this half-baked semi-mobile joke of a game.
I agree that Thrones combat cant even compete with very old games. It feels like a combat system from before WoW but modernized
It's possible for them to revamp the combat system-they've done it before. The game used to be an auto-combat mobile game, but they improved both the combat and graphics. So why can't they do it again, especially now that the game is gaining recognition from many players?
Well I hope they will, but it seems like many players are happy the way it currently is.
YUP, u nailed it bro. i also think that this clunkyness is by design so engine can handle this number of players in one enviroment at once
for me, i would say dungeons are too punishing, way too many one shot mechanics and people just don't know, or are not willing to learn, how to deal with them. It is a terrible experience running dungeons outside a full guild group right now
That melee attack range looked prefectly fine in throne at the start.
It would probably be fine if the movement wasn't so problematic
Ah, thank you for pointing out some of these design "issues"! I could not put my finger on what felt off, but I believe you have summarized it well.
Also, I feel that they have attempted to integrate design features from multiple styles of mmo's and they did not implement this integration very smoothly. When playing, I can see a little bit of Elder Scrolls here (especially weapon-swapping), and a little bit of FFXIV there, and then some SWTOR, and then some WoW, etc. While I appreciate their attempt, in any one scenario it's not done as well as any of the aforementioned titles.
On the one hand, it seems as if it may have been done for the sake of garnering a player base from other mmo's whose players are accustomed to a very specific set of options. For example, going from FFXIV to SWTOR, both tab targeting games, while similar, have many nuances that require some amount of acclimation. However, going from either of those to a more action-oriented ESO, or BDO even, is quite different. Perhaps they intended to make that easier?
On the other hand, in most cases, it just feels like a lack of direction or identity. It is as if NCSoft was not sure what they wanted to do, so they did a little bit of everything, poorly. And, did this the intention of their development team? Or is this more of a marketing gimmick?
I think the main reason is probably their transition from an auto-play combat to a proper pc/console combat system. They saw the game being very poorly received in beta due to the combat and hastily tried to remedy it. And thank you!
devs really need to see this video. great breakdown
I played TaL for 186 hours. I mainly did it for a buddy of mine. Ya, this is the most clonky combat pretty much ever. No one even plays the game anymore, now. The 'MMO Vets' that we got were like, 'why is this so BAD?' That's because it is.
I will be contrarian here to say that maybe they did on purpose. Maybe they want a more 'traditional' experience. This is done in all the wrong ways. This game spent 12 years in development and they couldn't fix their Tab Targeting? They couldn't fix how tanking is so bad with aggro and PvE dungeons that require you to just pull EVERYTHING and hope for the best? They couldn't think about how fun it is to heal when any heal is not on a 10 second timer. Combat is BAD.
I love this game's beauty. I love that it FEELS like a real MMO with cities that look like housing and NPCs that talk and feel alive. I like the decent gameplay loop of Contracts and Open-World Dungeons. All of these things won't save this game.
I really enjoyed ESO still do on occasion but people tired of it because of the gameplay. T&L could go the same way. Good came but the clunky combat can turn a lot of people off. The combat of a game is like the number 1 priority or should be.
So the complains are that the system is no the same as WOW?
If you want that, why would you play another game that isn't wow? I don't get it.
In fact his main game is another game that isn't WoW, and it doesn't have the clunkiness of this game.
The game definitely feels like it was supposed to be offline autohunting mobile game
it was designed as such. they removed the autoplay after the western audience complained about it. because apparently people from the west would rather waste their time grinding all day
could you report them that way they get fixed? ty
About the auto attack around 3:38 its a kitting mechanics that avoid close range player. If you are coming from wow i undestand but you have to undestand too the fact that throne and liberty are a much complicate game in term of game mechanics. You are complaining on this because you came from game like wow but this is totally normal et lore accurate that you are not reaching him at 2 meter from him.
How many weeks until population drop ?
Already dropping i make Second character and spots are empty 😂😂 people got 50 lvl and there is nothing to do
Really good and valid points your brought up this time. I am only level 26 and I have experienced almost all of this already.
It may sound like nitpicking, but every detail adds up to a mediocre combat experience
why they can't do a mmo with combat sytem similar to BDO? that is the best combat system in the entire MMO era , i was so waiting for this game and is so bad omg , is annoyingly bad the combat
check out new worlds combat, its my personal fav. BDO is too easy and arcadey for me
There is a check box to stop you from falling off a ledge. Unchecked it will be just like GW2.
I do agree with all of your other points about the combat needing polish.
I didnt use that setting in that video. I guess it would prevent me from falling by simply stopping me at an edge but dashes arent affected by it it seems
bro wants a 10yd auto attack lol
1-The targeting system is so horrible I can't get over it. 2- To many classes have to many ccs (not just one but multiple ccs) and going against certain classes in arena feels awful you sit in cc forever even with trinkets. 3-World clan pvp is awful its all about who can get sleeps off (CC) so your whole team can be mowed down in seconds. 4- I'm high evasion and 13k hp and I still get one shot which seems to be a asian mmo thing and feels awful. I have spent like 10 bucks and of course the game is free and I got alot of fun out of that for a small price so I guess I can't complain but this is def not for me long term. I consider this a bandaid mmo to get me thru to another game whatever that may be.
Getting Level 50 in this is insane. Thanks for figuring this out so we didn't have to. Are you still planning on reviewing retail WoW?
I think my review would be just the same as everyone elses so: Retail WoW is incredibly formulaic but polished and clean. It doesnt do anything super well or super poorly. 0 Risk game by the devs and that also makes it pretty repetitive especially including all the time gating. So I would give it around a 5/10
@@Neeko2lo Thank you!
I havent played many tab target games before and not being able to use my skills without having a target felt really awful and jarring
I also hate the CC mechanics where you get perma stunned to death, stun resistance is useless, but you can avoid both attack dmg and CCs with Evasion. But past blue equipment, to get your evasion with purples you have to be a hc gamer or mad swiper.
I find the aggro system in the game very triggering. Its specialy bad if you're the tank.
Someone has input lags on skills, or idk how explained i have to do 2 2 2 to execute the skill, in wow i press 2 ans instant cast the skill
I think the combat in the game is fine while I do understand y ppl think it feels clunky. The game basically doesnt encourage players to move while attacking like how in wow if u r melee ppl basically jump and rotate camera 360 every 2 seconds but attacks will land smoothly. Also the fact that NC intentionally makes attack motions skip fps to give some roughness and make attacks feel faster paced which they have been doing since lineage 2 adds to that feeling of clunkiness. I dont mind it as much as I feel like if the combat feels a bit too smooth it lacks that crispy hitting sensation but one thing that i HATE abt the combat system is how when u cast a spell and the mob walks off of range, it tells u at the end of casting and wastes ur time
I started this and New World in the same week and i found the combat way more fun on new world😊
The S-tier combat and movement coupled with a super forgiving and time-respecting progression system are why I always end up sticking with GW2.
I tried playing GW2 but I lost interest because I can't stand that when I move, my character moves first before it starts taking a step. I looks like it's sliding before it takes it's first step.
I agree with everything but the target auto face which I like. But there should be an option to toggle it.
I've played a lot of MMOs, from the most basic to the most popular, but even in the worst MMOs, the control system makes more sense than in this game. It's 2024, and auto attack and parry are mapped to the keyboard while there's an action mode in the game? Did the developers even play an MMO before they started making this?
Excellent video. I thought the T&L weapon swap vs. bar abilities was a bit weird when I started playing, so thank you for articulating it. It is weird having daggers equipped and using greatsword abilities, and vice versa. The way weapon swapping in Elder Scrolls Online makes a lot more sense to me. You get 5 abilities for a weapon, then when you switch to a different weapon, you are then presented with 5 abilities for that weapon. This makes a lot more sense than using abilities for a weapon you don't have in your hands in T&L. The really nice thing about how ESO does it is also that you get 10 abilities but you only have to press keys 1-5 on the keyboard instead of 1-10.
how do people target with a controller ?
?
By just aiming at the target and pressing attack, is that not how M&KB work too?
That’s why I gave up trying to heal in T and L.
New world 💯 controller supported with targeting controls!
Bro you have a double teleport stun ability which you can combo, and increase its duration, if you build wisdom and other cooldown traits your problem is solved. You just realized that in this game ( like any other) ranged is OP. The games bas its problems, but when I discovered that it can stun and double teleport, its just a matter of play style. Im dagger and SnS, I can DoT/Tank/Support, so Idk. Works a lot in PvP btw
PvP Endgame with p2w is insane whoever enjoys this pls dont spend a dime and just quit when the progression walls hits you
I'm top 10 killboard f2p. Git gud.
@@Psikick4 you’re top 10 korean p2w in inhaling copium
Haven’t seen any p2w in any situation that would matter lol.. delusional dumbass. Even if there is a slight advantage, all PvP content is safe deaths anyway. Games actually good.
First day or two in early access I got recruited into a guild. Turns out to be a solid team.. Now I’m sitting on multiple best in slot gear and the grinds only getting easier.
@@redrepublic5557 Most people have literally no how the progression in this game works, its all about being in a good guild and grinding with a good team.
Remember you looking forward to this release years ago during the lost ark craze, I agree this game needs a workover in many combat aspects.
I was so disappointed
Are you still gonna play this game or drop it?
Drop it most likely
TnL isn't good. It's not bad, but it isn't good. It's very un-fun to control and play. Everything feels artificially limited in some way, and I know that's by design. P2W doesn't have to = terrible systems, but that kind of profit-only development lends to this stuff.
What are you talking about 😂😂😂 the game has more "things" in it and done better than any other game in the market right now, aside from combat and movement which will be probably improved. You people just like to yapp because other people are doing the same so like the sheeps you are you HAVE to be part of the herd
@@brunolimaj7129 I don't think you're a serious person if you actually think that having more "stuff" is better and that you can call an MMO with bad movement and combat "better than any other game in the market right now." Well, the market sucks. That doesn't give TnL a pass for the MANY things it does poorly in a genre that has been around for decades. You're probably just too young to remember when games were decent.
@@uruk_bye1232 aside from movement and combat ( arguable anyway, not a fact that they are bad right now) what else is missing or done "wrong" ? You can't add anything other than personal pet peeves. Im tired of sweaty nerds who throw sh at other games just because they're not the exact copy of wow or FF. Both of those games are dog sh by the way....
@@brunolimaj7129 Movement is relatively slow and laggy. Movement is just clunky and slow compared to games like BDO and is even less compelling than GW2. Combat is just GW2. PVP is zerg rush and ranged AOEs only for the most common type of PVP content. Progression for non-Guild content is severely limited, so the loop of contract completion and avoiding conflict zones during the grinding process is just....repetitive, dull, and feels pointless. Auction house is premium currency only, and you're not allowed to even sell crafting mats to people. No trade. It's all RNG.
It's p2W game and is made inconvenient in a number of ways to encourage you to swipe. It's not a *bad* game, but it's not good either. I don't see why I should feel really positive about it and give them as much benefit of the doubt as you are when I've seen everything they're doing done better in older games like GW 1 and 2, WoW, WAR, Tera, ArcheAge, LostArk, etc etc etc. You may be tired of people complaining, and I hate that for you, sport. But games aren't getting better, so we're going to keep complaining.
@@uruk_bye1232 those are valid points, not all of them tho, for example the pvp being zerg vs zerg and mostly ranged aoe is basically every mmo out there ( also not entirely true that melee do not have a spot in mass pvp , while the ZvZ thing is to be expected when there are 10k people on the same server, of course there's gonna be chaos and the guild/alliance that dominates will get all the cake, thats how it works even in real life).
Other than that not being able to trade is a huge no for me too. I played Lineage 2 back in the gold era and want this game to succeed so much, even tho it only has the smell of L2 but not much else.
I'm still gonna sip some copium and hope they will introduce trade, offer other ways for no-guild-progression , drastically improve movement and combat. If it manages to do these things i dont see why it shouldn't succeed
Cannot explain how bad this game feels....but on the other hand i remember it's NCsoft we talking about. Also much love for mentioning gw2
One thing to add that's really annoying is having all your spells on CD. That should never happen in an MMO. Make some spells less powerful and lower their CDs to 1-2 seconds or just remove the CD.
coming from gw2, I can confidently say, gw2 have the best movement in the mmorp tab target genre.
it is so SMOOTH. and the combat is fun as hell. the abilities intertwind with one another, and as you say, you have a lot of reaction options. almost nothing lock you in place. everything is so smooth.
I went back to GW2, the combat is so much better, but I really don't miss the loading screens.
@@australienski6687 i agree, it is a downside.
But the good is so much that it is truly worth it imo
@@צמחישראלמרום I hope GW3 will have a persistent world with no loading screens like TL. That would be an S tier MMO.
@@australienski6687 of course, with keeping everything that make gw2 great
totally agree. removing loading screens, improving a little the graphics(keeping the style though), it will become absolute S tier game.
You almost convinced me to play wow. Almost. Definitely some jank that I think could be patched so I'm sticking with T&L
The game is straight up a god send..... and then there is the combat from 2004. I just can't play this game for more than 10-20 min. Combat is the most important feature in a game to do right, if it's garbage, people won't stick with it for too long.
A lot of things in the game didn’t make sense to me and it was clear it wasn’t a good quality game, people are hungry for MMOs
the worst thing about combat is how slow skills unlock and how long some cooldowns are
they could definitely work on the pacing you get "new" skills and maybe work on adding skills later to the base game considering they have ideas on weapons theyre adding in presumably soon
Maybe they can change the targeting to similar kind of league/dota? I just dont like the targeting the system of the game. Its soo bad even and yeah range have huge advantage on this game.
Any reason you did not mention skills specification at all, is it not relevant at all
I think the skill specialization was a great addition for build making but the fundamental combat doesnt really change too much through. (some abilties more some not at all)
i'll just wait for archeage while playing this, seems pretty good from trailer alone, and feel like 2025 ish game rather than TAL that was 1 decade behind. Not saying TAL is bad tho, it's alright, co-op dungeon is quite fun actually if they allow us to run more than 3/day that would be nice.
0:26 of course it will work like that and that doesn't make ther game a "mobile game", it was like that in Lineage II a previous game from NC soft.
Throne and Liberty was initially a lineage II successor
Lineage 3 released in 2003. OVER 20 YEARS AGO. Can we move on? Can we make better games finally?
@@Neeko2lo Korean MMO are like that, sadly
it works like that in pretty much all tab-targer MMOs, dosen't it?
@@rekyn Lineage II now has an auto mode in some servers, but when i tried the first versions back in 2004 .... if you pulled 2 mobs, you were dead .
Throne and Liberty, aka Lineage Eternal, was supposed to be a successor to Lineage 1. This game isn't supposed to be a successor to anything. It's a slop they scrapped together after 12 years of development hell.
Couldn't agree more. Game feels clunky af. The systems (upgrading, transfering, etc.) are so simple and lack depth imo?! (im coming from lost ark so maybe they just messed me up with their 100 systems to get stronger).
The PvE content is too easy, you can only judge some1 by their weapon upgrade and trait (making the rest of the gear feel less worth to get BiS imo). I dont weigh that aspect as a hard negative tho, since this game focuses more on PvP (which you only do in like 20% of the time, the rest is PvE).
It has terrible desyncs and bugs and just really needs a lot of polishing to feel smooth. Dont get me starting on jumping over small terrain or walls.
Very good video im pleasured as an old school wow player to see that someone points the exact little but good things about fun playstyle. Still Console/Pc it says so there is no hope to get much better.. I just accept it that way have fun and see what happens. Overall my life doesnt depend on a computer game. 😊
My top 2 games will always be BDO & GW2.
BDO = Best action combat I've ever tried
GW2 = Best tab target combat ever.
I'm sad devs dont look at the games with good combat reputation and try to make it feel as good or... better? (though that might be hard)
I played 20 minutes of T&L, mouse movement felt terrible, quit and uninstalled. Found out Mouse Smoothing was forced, edited input.ini to remove that stupid shit and tried again.
72 minutes in and it just feels bad and subpar to any other mmos...
I've copied "the best combat settings" to make the game feel "better", but it just feels weird.
BDO for example started out slow, but you can see the direction of combat. Every level makes you "faster", you can combo. Level 56, okay awakening/succession. Hit lvl 60, every combo available and it just feels super smooth to play.
And I would argue to say the same with GW2. It just gets better the more you progress but still starts out at a good baseline.
Throne just feels.. Clunky and bad from the get go and when I watch end-game footage it still looks shit. Can't believe it's soon 2025 and this is what we get.
No, thanks dude but you’re looking at it backwards. As far as Mail goes the first abilities in your tool kit should be buffed and the next ability when you’re ready to attack should be some kind of movement ability to get you close and those generally have the ability to extend the range quite a bit And your mail if you’re using mail is your main weapon then you should be running up to the target close to target anyway it’s range that’s really I mean you’re talking about mainly you’re talking about face-to-face fighting range. That’s really screwed in that equation, crossbow and boat it’s like 16 m and that’s ridiculous in real life. I shoot at greater distances than that.
the combat system is one of the worst in a big game. Unplayable, it doesn't attack stuff you stand there while taking damage, so you have a point
I downloaded and tried the game today.. Finished the tutorial then uninstalled. My friend was upset because I got them to download and try it with me, but the game feels very bad to play. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks the combat was made by someone who has no idea how to do mmo combat.
EDIT: Like why can I not have the game auto-switch hotbars with weapon swapping? You mean to tell me you want me to have all my abilities on one bar OR manually switch bars every time I weapon swap? If I'm wrong, please tell me, but I didn't see that as an option which seems like an obvious must-have feature and I can't believe it's not in the game. The devs truly have no idea what they're doing.
Weapon swapping doesnt do anything besides change your auto attacks. And afaik there is nothing else to it.
I played for an hour then uninstalled
I don't think you're understanding the system that you don't need to manually switch the weapons in order to use the skills from your off-hand. Switching your hotbar is intended to switch to a completely different skill loadout, e.g. PVE, PVO, world boss. Nit Just give you access to abilities that weren't on your first hotbar. I think 12 skills is a good balance versus some of the other weapon-based games only allow between 3 and 5 skills.
My problem with the combat is that it just does not flow. The cooldowns are really long it just feels janky and disjointed. The AoE is very small it just doesn't feel good.
this game is exceptional in how badly designed it is. I'd like to know who is responsible for this travesty.
gw2 is such amazing game wish more ppl gave it a chance instead of playin garbage titles
New raids soon omegalul.. im coming back for those for.sure but they like to take their time :D
Gw 2 is masterpiece after Complete whole story with dlc and jump to this game i have zero interesy in korea pve grbg history when all u fo is presing F u don't fell even conected with World 0 immerssion