Why Does LEGO Destroy Molds? LEGO History: Ep 2
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Join us on a deep dive into why LEGO can rarely ever reissue older sets, and what led them to the decision to destroy molds if not used in 5 years!
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LEGO History Episode 1
Project Genesis: LEGO’s Bizarre, Failed Product Line of the Future - • Project Genesis: LEGO’...
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i find it really strange, almost unbelievable that 5 years of storing a mold costs more than making a new one..
"Due to the intricate design and level of accuracy needed, each LEGO plastic injection mold can cost up to $200,000, with some going as high as $360,000."
yeah I’d love a more detailed explanation of what said storage involves than the book gives!
@@rylieaitch It doesn't make sense to me either. I can store an industrial CNC machine for a decade for less than 10K$.
Maybe the molds require maintenance, like if they're prone to corrosion, and that cost goes to employees... If you need one employee, making 70K a year for maintenance for every 1000 parts, cutting your molds down by 3000 saves 200K$.
So maybe what they meant is, it's cheaper to rebuild one or two, then store them all.
It's crazy that you can buy model kits made with literally 60 year old molds, but LEGO can't make it past 5. The whole point of injection molded plastic is to set off high initial cost of tooling a mold by using it tens of thousands of times.
@@Ranstone Or perhaps, on the _scale_ they would need to store all of the molds, its not economical.
Storing a single CNC machine? Yeah, buy a fucking storage unit for 100$ a month, dirt cheap. Potentially find cheaper ones.
Leasing a warehouse capable of fitting several hundred, or several thousand extremely precise metal molds without damage? Very expensive very quickly. And thats not accounting for shipping, or several locations if one isnt enough. Or the cost of damages if something went wrong during transit or storage.
Risk versus reward, storage isnt worth the risk, or profitable enough to justify keeping the parts. If they arent being used, its cheaper to dump them.
@@pauldeddens5349 I think you're onto it, this is a case where economies of scale work in reverse. More molds to store equals more expensive warehouses, more power expense to control the climate in those warehouses, more expense on security, more property taxes, etc. Look at famous market leaders of Lean Manufacturing like Toyota and they have a very similar policy to keep their warehouses as small as possible.
It would be amazing if they kept a copy of the molds in a vault like they do with sets just in case they want to bring back an old part. At least for special molded parts.
This was literally the point of the whole entire video. Its cheaper to destroy the mold and remake the mold than it is to just store the mold for even 5 years. This way they save costs and if the old piece needs to come back it forces them to update it to their new standards ultimately making the piece better.
@@CryNhnyeah but it would still be cool it’s not like it would put a dent in there profit
@@bradyblaze08 Not the way Lego sees it. One of the major issues during their financial struggles was making too many specialized parts. They never want to go back to that. Sure, they are the biggest toy manufacturer now. But it is because they cut unnecessary costs like keeping molds they weren't using.
I think the system is perfectly reasonable. And it does mean designers have to really think if they want to keep a mold around. Find a way to make it useful at least once every 5 years or lose it forever, unless you can prove the need to remake it.
@@CryNhn I made the comment before he brought that up.
@@CryNhn Yeah and molds wear out and need repair and the molds themselves are really heavy and bulky. Also the metal is expensive so it's better for them to be recycled.
6:00 BRO crashed that BS scalper economy LMAO im dead
least based duckbricks moment
Biggest power move ever.
Not all heroes wear capes.
It blows my mind. Lego allowed the 1980s monkey mold to be destroyed, amazing how long it was used up until 2011. I definitely hope they include a new molded monkey for the next Lego pirate ship
The old monkey was my favourite. The articulation it provided was crazy.
Bandai has been updating Gundam models for decades, and they somewhat regularly rerelease old kits despite them having new versions. You can get rereleases of 44 year old kits, made a few years ago. There's only one kit that will never be reprinted again, and that is because the molds were damaged at some point.
Lego could really learn a lot from that.
Why should they care? They're basically printing money these days.
In the video you said you would post a pdf for the secret life of lego bricks? I don't see it in the description
I also am very interested in this PDF and don't see it either...
Same here! It looks super interesting, I hope we can still take a peek!
As am I...! Hope the PDF link gets uploaded.....🤞
In a past video of his he shares the link 🎉ruclips.net/video/L0l-GiPu9Xk/видео.htmlsi=OcA3mM3C32_y2-pA
The PDF link:
drive.google.com/file/d/1K-Eb6fXPY4W7ayLiX9CJ8gMVogsdx1zI/view?usp=sharing
It’s the very first link in the description.
drive.google.com/file/u/0/d/1K-Eb6fXPY4W7ayLiX9CJ8gMVogsdx1zI/view?usp=sharing&pli=1
If they really want to Lego can remake the molds. They may not keep the mold around, because molds for injection molding tend to be big and heavy, but every mold starts out as a technical drawing. Last century that would have been a blueprint (a big sheet of paper), nowadays it`s all digital. Modern molds are STL`s (stepfiles) you upload into your cnc machine. The cnc machine then can make a new mold if needed. The molds themselves are not that important to remake old parts.
also, molds wear out when used for production. You can only use it X times before the bricks producedare out of spec.
I like this video. Really informative and well made. I like this narrated style better! ❤
They should do what Gundam does and keep reprinting sets from over 20 years ago
Yeah, even with the P-Bandai shit, Bandai does a great job with it, unless a kit is being replaced by an upgraded version (or is P bandai...), it's constantly on print. Aren't the Unicorn kits (constantly being sold) using 2007 moulds? It's funny how lego kits use much smaller and reusable pieces while gundam is mostly big sprues used on a single kit. Of course, sprues can be reused (IBO kits all use the same inner frame with different armor for example), but it's mostly separate stuff.
@@Morrowinder777 i recently got a reprint of the MG master gundam a kit from 2002
Really enjoying this history series you've started! Super cool to hear about the inner workings of Lego
You're the man for that PDF!
Why can't they just make updated versions of a set then??? Like, recreate Bionicle sets with the upgraded parts... so it'd basically be a superior version of the old set...
It'd still have the nostalgia, but it'd stick with the guidelines...
And thanks for the PDF
that's what the GWP was
Thank you so much for sharing the book!
It's Legos loss and somebody with a 3d printers else's gain.
I just hope they keep the CAD files going forward, much easier to remake the mold or make upgrades. :)
What's happening at 0:30 on the left side of the shelf behind you ?? It looks edited ? are you hiding a new Bionicle or something ?
It is edited, the shelves dont line up at the top and bottom.
it’s a mirror
LEGO may bring back molds, but the same can't really be said for colors...
RIP Sand Red and Sand Purple. Maybe one day they'll update those colors and bring them back, but probable not. Could you IMAGINE a LEGO Minecraft badlands biome with reintroduced Sand Red? Literal perfection. (Also, pour one out for Medium Green)
That notion that Exo force is responsible for modern mechs lacking knees boggles my mind, given that the lack of said joints is my biggest criticism of Lego mechs today. It makes putting them into any sort of dynamic pose all but impossible.
Thank you so much for the PDF! 🙏👌 Keep up the good work!
It would be fun if I did a video update on the 3D printing community especially for bionicle parts
Dont they archive the 3D models of the molds? I can understand getting rid of the bulky molds when you have a digital copy that fits on a thumb-drive
So they could bring back many Bionicle molds from the early years back with modern technology and better materials if the demand was strong for them? too bad they screw it up with the ccbs crap and bionicle of the 2010s.
“Improvements”
We could have it all with pick a brick.
I think Lego could find significant business in limited, online only runs of specific parts. Like a legacy Pick-a-Brick. Open it up certain times of year. Have it ship on certain dates so they can reload the molds and print them. Allow special colors, maybe have votes for extra-specialized pieces like hats, minifigs, or unique colored minifigs.
I guess that taking less risks is why Lego sets have seem to stagnated. That’s just a personal thing, I see mostly licensed sets and not many new creative themes. Shout out to dreams tho for keeping it fresh.
Lego should create doughter company that would store those molds and create small batches of those pieces for individual sale if there is demand for them. Of course this would make them much more expencive but expansive is better then unobtanium. Now they allow to chinese knockoff aftermarket to thrive. Good axamples are pneumatic pressure tank and buggy motor parts.
Thanks for the great work you do.
I'am so happy i found this channel.
But the music in the background is so insainly irritating!
You will loose more people with having music behind you speaking than you will gain.
Music when you are showing something is okay, but not while you talk.
It becomes a mindvirus and you can't conentrate on what you are saying.
Other than that you have a great channel.
Bro is shooting a video about LEGO on anamorphic lenses. Fuck yeah.
1:34 the only reissues they do are the G1 figures, but that's because of Geewunners who complain about everything if it isn't G1, so Hasbro has to keep those fans happy, Repaints can't count as reissues, since usually they're different characters or they remould pieces to make it more accurate to another character. and sometimes they do rereleases for some characters (Mainly in Studio Series) cuz they go for prices like $800-$2000 at most.
*Elves parts: am I a joke to you?
I just buy the Chinese blocks now. They're identical in every way. The ? Block cost me 43 dollars. Girlfriend who has $17,000 sunk into Lego cannot tell the difference.
So, you support IP theft. Good to know.
Great vid. Once hearing it, it all makes sense doesn’t it.
Not the biggest fan of the white bars
14:18
"Lego keeps fan demand in consideration"
Counterpoint: G1 bionicle
To add to the counterpoint: ccbs pieces
Yeah, they'll probably release more System Bionicle anniversary sets like Tahu and Takua (and Onua's mask as an easter egg). I don't think they'd ever sink that many resources to remake the Bionicle sets properly, but as sure as hell, I'd go down to the store and get them immediately. And G1 would be one of the easiest to remake as most of the parts are shared among the Toas. But that's just wishful thinking
I don't think Bionicle's current active community is large enough to be a profitable target market in its own right.
@@PlasticToa Surely not as profitable as other lego themes. Would need to bring in new people as well with some fresh ideas. Die hard fans would probably rave or criticize it to the ground. Its creation was lightning in a bottle. It's return (second return) would need to be as well. I'd be interested in a constraction spiritual successor too, though.
also, "Keep in consideration" does not mean "bend to uncritically"
It would be a huge shame if the original Kanohi molds are long gone and not in deep storage somewhere. Can always dream of them doing a limited run of original masks in modern day colors for the 25th anniversary or something.
I'd be happy with just a mask bag (with included stand for them) just for the celebration. Not even any figure or set; just that exciting feel of collecting the original mystery bag of lego before minifigures took it over ^^
99% impossible 😓
The original molds are almost definitely gone unfortunately, however it’s still possible for them to make new molds for a limited run. Although based on the video I wouldn’t bet on it at least for a long time until Lego’s operations change somehow. A limited run of masks is more likely than a full reissue of a set bc they’d only need six new molds for the masks, but they probably still wouldn’t do that today because they wouldn’t really be able to be used anywhere else across the system which is what they’re big on these days.
With modern scanning and cad, making identical versions of the originals wouldn’t be very difficult
@@michaelyocum7082I mean… they probably still have the CAD files/spec drawings, remaking identical molds is purely a cost issue not a technical/logistic one.
Monkey was far better than current one and was very cool
I love the monkey
"It is cheaper to remake a mold than to store it for 5 years."
"The cost of making a new mold is incredibly high."
These two statements seem at odds with each other.
While they may seem at odds, molds have to be kept under specific conditions to be kept useable, and when enough molds are being stored it is more expensive, (wether for single molds it is im not sure) while creating a new mold of an old part which is probably being brought back due to high fan interest (likely high sales), it can be considered more economical than exactly cheaper.
We probably won't get further information any time soon, but I wonder if Lego is taking steps to document existing molds and make it easier to resurrect them in the future without incurring that initial design cost again; I'm sure they at least have a system to quickly and cheaply replicate molds for evergreen pieces that wear out all the time, and if the retired molds can be digitized for later reproduction they shouldn't be lost as easily.
its called "ebay" and can get you the result of the mold without having to redesign it, plus data storage isnt as costly so you can be sure there is information to work with if it comes up again
The molds are designed in CAD software (either by lego themselves or by a tool and die fabrication / machine shop) and injection molding components are designed for fabrication by a tool and die company. It isn't difficult to re-machine a new mold when you still have the 3D files and drawings for tolerancing, and mold texturing needed when they originally had the molds machined, it should all be documented in the drawings / digital files. He stated they only started using digital files in the 90s and Bionicle had a lot of 3D printed prototypes for the 2001 line, so Lego definitely has the 3D CAD files for all the Bionicle components.
I think if a new Bionicle series could utilize current parts more broadly, and keep the masks rare, they could justify making a bunch of unique molds (please remake the old masks as close as possible) while rebuilding bodies as more modern piece usage.
We can remember 2015 sets. They only had a mask for each 1-2 sets, 6 weapon molds for the entire year and 5 new part molds - generic armor, chest armor, gearbox and two head parts. With an approach like this, minding that some of the parts can be easily just made a reusable part of the system, Bionicle should be pretty much in line with the whole thing
As an indie train MOC designer, I similarly find it necessary to keep track of what parts are still in production and in which colors. In the world of MOCs and instructions, the moment a part is discontinued, the prices go up on Bricklink so like factory designers, I find myself trying to use common parts in uncommon details to make it feasible in the long run, saving special parts for special moments. The fact they continue to use train parts in other sets is a much appreciated miracle, though I wish they'd bring back the 9v era of train parts.
I think the oldest part I ever used is the 1x1x2 window frame with glass from the 1970s in yellow but that part wasn't particularly valuable or missed by Lego fans so I don't think it will be re-issued, LOL.
While I am impressed these days by creative use of common parts, there was something magical about cool new molds that was exclusive to only 1/6 sets per wave. Some of my favorite bionicle pieces became mainstays like Guurahk's staff point, Keerakh blades, Pohatu Nuva claws, whereas others were never seen again, like the Hordika weapons
Hey Chris, I really like this kind of format. Much appreciated, thank you. When possible, please also lift the mystery about the end of Lego monorails. I really want to know is the widely known outsourced production and patent story really true? Does your book include any details about this mystery? Thanks again!
Thank you for the great LEGO pig from the auction on Christmas Eve!!
Hey Chris, appreciate the massive amount of work that is clearly going into the channel and it shows! Looking forward to seeing the channel grow as it deserves, cheers for the all the content mate
Capitalism spurs:
innovation ❌
Weird behavior and for-profit proprieting ✅
As a Ninjago fan this news sorta broke my heart.
Its been so long since we last got the original Serpentine characters in a set, so far the only one we've gotten lucky with keeping around is Pythor. Does this mean we'll just never see these characters again in a physical set? Characters like Skales, Fangtom, Acidicus, etc.
(Edit) fixed grammar.
Lego might recreate the molds, like how they recreated the goat piece.
@@benlankhof7342 Hopefully, I loved the headpieces for the Hypnobrai and the others, they were just so unique and were perfect with minifig proportions. The newer fire based ones aren't baaaad per-se but the head sizes make them look awkward compared to the originals. They're too small.
To keep in mind too is that molds, over time, degrade. Even if stored.
So eventually, even stored molds loose precission and quality.
Really? Damn warehouse rats eat away the tool steel and lick away boron nitride coating?
I'd imagine it's not the rats, just the atmosphere. All things decay slowly over time, and I'd bet Lego is the kind of thing where even relatively small degradations can drop the quality below acceptable levels.@@VEC7ORlt
Weird to me that the company that's been using CG for their instructions since the 70s didn't start taking digital inventory until the 2000s
It’s sorta a wasteful practice, although with how technology has advanced. Digital 3d models are a good way to preserve designs of that caliber. Me I wish we’d get the helmet sculpt of the clone in my profile pic again and straight up 1 for 1 remakes like you mentioned. Instead of them discarding the older clones and other designs altogether. I sorta feel frustrated that LEGO will never make “those” clones again and keep pushing forward and updating everything. I do enjoy what we get, but I remember the simpler and much different times.
it would be great to see a parts pack of the most expensive elements like the black feather plume or the white dragon plume pieces.
I missed a lot of information. Your best info was a throw away line; that the warehouses had to be climate controlled. But still, an old chicken cel farm can be climate controlled, so I still don't understand why it's cheaper.
A mold can cost up to 200.000, even 360.000 someone mentioned. How big are these molds? Less than a cubic meter? In the chicken farm I've been in you could store at least a two and a half thousand. That's millions worth of molds, work to make them. I missed in the video why storage is expensive.
The points you mentioned are good; better molds, theme's that did poorly.
Still, what makes storage so expensive? More than 200.000 per 5 years. (Per mold!)
Exo-Force is hands down one of my favorite lines of Lego. Bionicle and Star Wars still take the cake, but Exo-Force is probably top 5 for me
It's awesome that the book is available in .pdf form, I'm definetly giving that a read.
I don't like that the molds are destroyed simply for archival purposes. The thought of never seeing certain Lego elements every again is kinda crazy since Lego is a huge company and could definetly store every single mold if they wanted to. Another thing I don't like is that Lego owns Bricklink now. It just feels weird and kinda monopoly-ish, even though it might not be technically a monopoly, but a single company controlling a large chunk of the second hand market and tracking everything feels kinda iffy to me.
🙄 What people don’t understand: With todays methods you can easily create a mold from the CAD drawings. Even most sensible instead of trying to keep a decaying hunk of metal around that once was used in a machine that is not there anymore as well. Throwing away molds - which you need to do after a certain amount of throughput anyway - is a nothing burger. The metal even gets recycled. Not throwing away the drawings is the important step. Which lego doesn’t do.
Lego is one of the few companies I trust to manage their product responsably and produce quality.
They are still a company, so I dont trust them per se. I'm not naive.
But they have proven themselves to focus on quality first, and finances to support that quality and make profit.
Rather then profit first and ship out whatever makes money for as little cost as possible.
This seems like a pretty good excuse for someone to 3d scan these bricks and upload them online.
I think the only way for a new bionicle theme to happen now is if they somehow made a bunch of half-mask parts that could go together in different ways to make masks, or details on armor, vehicles, engines, etc. If designed well, they could be better than the g1 masks too.
I understand the destruction because of storage problemes, but why don't they keep a digital copy of it, so you can just use it even in like 20 years or more ?
Yeah i still have a venator and am thinking of modfying it to boost its durability (of build). Also yeah i had some of those joint pieces break from other sets.
this explains why they didn't bring back the original hoodpiece mold for Ronan the Accuser.
I mean despite supposedly listening to the community they refuse to bring back black pin-axels. It’s not even a retired mold it’s just a color that they used to make it in but haven’t for decades now and the second-hand prices have all gotten ridiculously high. Everyone likes the black ones way more than the blue ones, and I understand some of the arguments for the blue ones but they could still definitely use the black ones in a lot of cases so they’re more available for the people who want them
Awesome vid. I am totally with Lego on what seems to boil down to a "Keep it Fresh" strategy. The Lego corporate turnaround is legendary, and to me, this is a key aspect of it. It also drives demand with the cap on production and the resultant scarcity, and resultant increase in perceived value, while keeping things forward thinking. I have a hard time seeing how the storage costs would factor in though. Of course I have not done the research. But, I was under the impression that molds cost in the hundreds of thousands range. The other reasons are more than enough to warrant destroying them imo. Anyhow I could watch vids like this all day. Your channel is one of the best. Keep it up!
You’re literally for the people, we appreciate the knowledge and you spending your money to do so. Keep up the epic history Vods really gets my gears cranking
lol the design of the og bionicle joints weren’t the reason for breakage it was plastic quality.
I imagine it would have been better to make two classications of parts, "evergreen" and "specialty". Evergreen part molds would always be available, while specialty parts would rotate out if unused.
Quite sure there is already a thing like that
Love your videos duckbricks!
I think the molds should be kept for at least Archival purposes. (Given it's not too big, I remember seeing some molds a while ago that were bulky and I believe that was just for a 2x4 brick.)
What an extremely fascinating topic.
I also loved watching all these Money King Warrior Mech prototypes 👀.
Sad how that means a lot of the molds for the 4 Lego movies are pretty much gone now
A piece that’s now retired that I could easily need more of is a palm tree trunk that appeared in various types and colours, as well as domes being produced in select colours.
There’s also quite a few minifigure parts like hair that I wish they could bring back. The again, it’s not impossible as they revived an old mould for the Chamille minifigure in Ninjago City Markets.
I gotta say, thank you for making the PDF version of the Secret life of lego bricks book.
Very kind of you, so that people who aren't able to track down or afford the physical copy can still read the information in the book.
I learned so much. Thanks for the lesson! I also thought it was cool about how the 4-armed piece was also able to make a return.
This was great! Thanks for sharing a link to the book! I had forgot that was released. Looking forward to reading it
What does the T stand for in the EBT, you mentioned when talking about the Easy Builder System? Thanks!
Tool
Thank you so much for making a PDF of that book. Such a valuable resource!
He didn't make it, this PDF was distributed to original backers of the book. Not sure if it was supposed to be posted publicly, might be some copyright issues there...
@@rylieaitch oooooh
Never forget when lego brought back the Guurahk staff twice for the rahkshi starts and kopaka master
The guurahk staff never went more than 5 years without being used, so its mold was likely never destroyed. (Although, it's been 9 years now since it last appeared, so I think it's safe to say it's gone now.)
yeah at late 90's and 2000's you could see many new molds that were just new to be new. It must have costed them lots of $. The 70's-90's lego had almost always multipurpose molds. Watching 2010's + you could see the same tendency that was in 70's-90's time span. Its better as it makes a set more compatible for rebuild or changes by a kid or adult at home.
And its a smart decision, in automotive industry we have to hold molds up to 10 years on avg. Its expensive.
Hey first comment
Everytime people complain about the Bionicle GWP again I'll just show them this video
I can't believe that we have ugly, stocky mechs nowadays because kids couldn't pose the EXO-Force mechs back in the day.
EXO-Force was my favorite theme when I was a wee lad, so it boggles my mind that other kids at the time had so much of a skill issue that it forever ruined mech articulation from that point forward.
I don't suppose we have to be TOO concerned about the idea of LEGO decommissioning the molds for old retired parts if there's possibly a reason to believe that the specifications/DIMENSIONS of those part molds can get stored in perpetuity as a very small slice of the company's internal database.
Lego should still bring back Samukai's mold from Ninjago. They had the perfect chance to remake his minifigure in Day of the Departed and the Legacy lines but no.
The Galador, Jack-Stone era was a dark time to be sure... I'm so glad those useless chunky pieces are gone...
Are we Shaw. Tho. Do Lego destroy the molds I herd people s say it. But wouldent Lego keep one of each mold. In a volt or locked away or in a Lego house type musium .
Cas most companies keep. Thing s. In thay archive s like car s making companies s thay keep. One of. Every car thay made ..an store them some where.
All so. Like you seed Chris it's not the fact it. Is the $$money to store them. Molds . May be thay destroy the molds. ..cas of. If. Some body. Got thos mold s. ...An. Try to make some .of the parts ..Lego would Shaw. Not be happy ...😊
Great video! I decided to watch because I was curious, but I left feeling very impressed by your work. Thanks for such an engaging and informative video! :)
Huh, so with how Lego functions today compared to the 2000s my ideas for a Bionicle G3 would fit right in.
So that's why we don't get new wheels. LEGO already has so many different wheels available, that they have to retire a wheel first, in order to make room for a new one. But since wheels are used in so many sets all the time, the old wheels never get retired.
It is too stiff management, and they should make exceptions to these strict management rules.
LEGO, remake the black Forestmen plume! It’s like $50 because it’s so rare. 😭
Petition to get Lego to re-use exo-force molds for an anime theme? Or re-use Chima molds for an eventual theme resurrection?
Yooooo Duck well done. This looks like it belongs on the history channel 😂
makes sense. Lego multiple times would've almost gone bankrupt
Great new production value! Nice
Well that explains this year’s Ronan the Accuser minifig
It's surprising they kept the goat mold for 12 years without using it.
WAIT! Episode 2?!?!?!?!?! How did I missed the first one?????
Project Genesis: LEGO’s Bizarre, Failed Product Line of the Future - LEGO History Documentary
ruclips.net/video/rnlfVNJDm1k/видео.html
◡̈
Thank you for being you sir
Never knew that scanners could scan pages into vectors!!
I’m adults fan and deserve this answer.
Shame we won’t see anniversary sets based on older sets. For example an anniversary edition of the original 2001 Toa sets for older LEGO fans.