McIntosh MA12000/D'Agostino Progression Integrated
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- Опубликовано: 7 июл 2023
- Back at it again! The team is reviewing the McIntosh MA12000 and comparing it against the Dan D'Agostino Progression Integrated Amplifier.
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Audio Excellence Inc. is a high end audio/video store in Markham, Ontario, Canada, a suburb of Toronto. We've been in business since 1991.
Check out our interviews with designers and audio luminaries like Daryl Wilson of Wilson Audio, Paul McGowan of PS Audio, Paolo Tezzon of Sonus Faber, Wendell Diller of Magnepan, John Atkinson of Stereophile, Dan D'Agostino of D'Agostino Master Audio Systems, Nelson Pass of Pass Labs and others.
Contacts:
Adrian@audioexcellence.ca
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Lewis@audioexcellence.ca
Mike@audioexcellence.ca
Edited by:
Alison@audioexcellence.ca 
Развлечения
You guys continue to have one of the best hifi channels because you offer great knowledge, personal insights, and entertaining banter. 👍
Thanks
Thank you for this comparison! While I am not in the market for a DDag, I did purchase the MA12000 with the opinions from this channel as a significant part of my research. Great to hear the Mc held its own against the $$$ DDag!
So much to like about this. For example, the DAC in the McIntosh, while not the best is far from bad and the great thing is that it's modular so it can be upgraded! I tend to listen like Adrian so it's great to hear his take on things.
Thanks Ennio
Vilip and Jay were just on another level of knowledge ! Cissi we miss you 🤗
Don't miss Cece one bit. She had no familiarity nor knowledge related to audio products. Nice kid, and a cutie too but, had no idea how she became part of the show.
Great video. Excellent choice for comparison. I do miss Vilip.
I miss him too
On a technical side this was by far the clearest video you’ve done. Sometimes in the past the videos looked a tad milky but this was terrific -almost looked 4K. Well done!
Thanks
In joy your show keep up the good work Soug
Thanks for all of your hard work. The amount of time and homework (experience) required to create these videos is significant. As a side note, it's nice to hear reviewers commenting on the emotional aspects, rather than just: low, mid, highs + soundstage. I heard my first Audio Note room recently and buy all metrics not HiFi, but WOW, liquid butter (sorry Adrian) in the ear. Your review of the MSB vs PS audio DAC has made me reconsider the PS Audio DSD2 (why no group chat on that one?) Thanks again 👍
We did a review of the PS DSDac mk2, search our channel
Lol, l love it. It is absolute proof that everyone hears things differently. Great job, guys 🙏
Thanks!
Love you videos, not sure about the animation and extra sound bits .
Great video , I’m a Mcintosh fan but love the look and finish of the Dan D’Agostino
Great video! Both are good integrated amps and different price points. It's a subject to individual preference.
Do you have any plans doing a review comparing the MA12000 with the MA9500 in the future?
Great video. Can you also please do an MA 12000 vs Hegel H590 as well?
Given the conclusions (emotion versus clarity) isnt this video really about tube preamp versus all solid state? Its less about Mac versus D'agastino. For that comparison, the MA9500 should be used, not the MA12000.
Glad you went back to this review format, any chance you get Vilip back for a guest review appearance?
Obviously both are amazing pieces of kit. But when the differences in sound are subtle but the price difference is not then there is no question which one should be recommended. Great discussion everyone.
Thank you
D’Agostino makes gear that is nice. I auditioned the progression integrated. There was something wrong with one of the inputs though. The amp was repaired and when it was plugged in it went up in smoke. I was able to get momentum M400 with a hd pre and really loved them. I used them with an MSB discrete to good effect.
I auditioned the premier Dac in he system and made the upgrade to it. I then tried the MSB s202 and the difference between it and the system with the momentum gear was not substantial enough to warrant the price difference. In fact I could buy the red Dac and still have money left compared to the momentum gear.
What are your feelings about the long-term reliability of these two integrated amplifiers? Which one requires more upkeep? I would hate to have to lift and ship either one anywhere. Also, Krells tend to run super hot, so listening in a room without air conditioning is probably an advantage to the McIntosh
.
Should have compared the Hegel H590 to the MA12000, since the Hegel is closer to price of the Mac (actually the Hegel is bit cheaper). The D'Agostino at $27K USD is way too far out of the price range.
The review was about the D’Agostino. We’ve already done the Mac previously
@@adrianlow2114 I am just saying that the price difference is too big. Also, it would have been interesting to compare the H590 against the D’Agostino since both are solid state. The 12000 is obviously going to lose some detail with its tube pre-amp section. Maybe a 3-way comparison.
Adrian,hello. I have one question for you from Moscow: I have bought a Mcintosh MA 12000 and Mcintosh MS500… I have bowers and Wilkins 802diamond at home…until this day in my system were Hegel H590…. Do you think that MA 12000 and MS500 will give me much better results with quality of the sound? Thanks for your answer 🙏
To me the D'Agostino is a Lamborghini product. The McIntosh is more of a Corvette. Both are high performance machines but the D'Agostino seems to be for that niche customer looking for the ultimate in performance, sacrificing convenient features in order to achieve it. The McIntosh to me is something that does things its own way. What is described is that Mac sound. They also have a heavy emphasis on trying to offer an ultimate ownership experience. Making a bullet proof product that is also feature rich and easy to use. For me the McIntosh would be the way to go.
Corvette is an insult, Porsche may be more appropro….gives one everything he/she needs and more than can be appreciated with the benefit of years of enjoyment, reliability, and superb resale value.
I would say the McIntosh is a Mercedes Maybach or a Bentley. It's all about the comfort, ease of use, features, build and luxury.
Absurd analogy.
@@67spankadelik It is an absurd hobby.
Compared to the d'Agostino, the McIntosh will always look like a bargain !! It's a totally different type of production capability too...
Great video!- I just wish there was more variety in the music you all use for auditioning. I think orchestral music/opera is important to use because of the dynamics and variety and layering of instruments with overtones etc really tests quality of reproduction.
I did listen to orchestral pieces but didn’t mention them.
Couldn't agree more. Classical music is by far a much better test for high end equipment. I can't imagine buying a 100k system and listening to the Roling stones on it. It would be a great addition to the panel to have someone who understands classical music to provide their feedback on testing of systems
Some really dont like Mac gear. I see its appeal particularly if you listen to cds that have that digital harshness. I love the eq knobs on the MA12000. The Agustino would have more resolution but less options. Style wise i prefer Mac out of these two. I heard the pre power combo of the DA equipment...model numbers escaping now in Australia at a hifi show years back ...nice but way out o 16:12 f my price range. Money no object ide go for Gryphon or Moon pre and power amps. Love your infomal but informative chats guys and girls.
Mike: "Once you go Mick, you never go Bic"
Funny, this presentation comes down to the fact that all of them would buy the McIntosh which is truly a fantastic amplifier, given its performance (ability to produce lovely music) and it's price at what, 12k less?
Smooth as a wet seal 🦭 🎵😬
Adrian has the most experience and still good ears. McIntosh DACs are not great even with their latest top of the line cd player. The player itself is awesome and the closest thing to live music but streaming and using the dac it is not really good. I don’t know the other two DACs but I bet they are heads and shoulders above the McIntosh dac. I know McIntosh also has a dedicated stand alone dac and I guess that’s also much better but never heard that either. I am also sure that in audiophile terms the Dan de Agustino beats the McIntosh in all areas but the McIntosh has that special McIntosh thing going on which is very addictive.
Do you guys sell Butter to go with the premium gear?? 😆
The D’Agostino should be notably better as there is a considerable price difference between the two so it would want to seriously outperform. Still and informative and enjoyable listen. Thanks again folks keep up the great work 👍😎
For me it is superior
WHY? @@adrianlow2114
well i bought an ma 12000 ,and the amp humming itself, dont know does it come from the transformer, or from the tubes or another electronic device inside the amp, this buzzing is just inside the amp it is not going to my xr100 speakers, i mail to mcintosh never got an awnser,,this is how alleged great mcintosh is??
There is complete logic behind your findings. McIntosh has a house sound and the D'Agostino is more true to the source
So lemme see if I got this straight....2/3 of the reviewing panel preferred the Mac but both said the differences were very small and subtle between the two units. So put another way if you buy the D'Agostino it's very close to the Mac in performance, but @ D"Agostino they'll throw in about $12,900.00 worth a visceral butter?
Great review, as always. I wonder if the results would have been different with Sonus Faber speakers, would the Mac have been too much of a good thing?
Too bad you guys don’t listen to vinyl. The Classic Records Led Zeppelin reissues are quite good, but you’ll pay a fortune for them these days. My original pressing of Tattoo You also sounds great. But I’ve heard the hits WAY too many times, and the rest of the album isn’t worth listening to, IMHO. But Adrian, you need to get hold of Clair de Lune, RCA Living Stereo LSC2326, and listen to Thais Meditation on you Clearaudio turntable.
I have the original LSC and it is indeed wonderful
@@adrianlow2114 👍
Louis Jr. and Sr.? Twins?
D'Agostino plays in a different league
I am listening right now to "Sorrow" from "Pulse" (Pink Floyd) through a d'Agostino Progression S350, which is in turn in another league w.r.t. the Progression Integrated that I had for a couple months. This guy knows how to build amplifiers.
Back in a minute, busting for a leak.
If I understand well, the D'Agostina is more analytical...
15.000 usd ? It costs 20.000 Euro here in Germany. Damn.
Yes, the prices are not always comparable from one country to another. In my country the Macs are even higher in price, and I always seem to find that the Macs are overpriced compared to performance in my country.
Vat?
Bring back Cici ❤
Mick-Intosh?
Adrian, you gotta step in there and correct his pronunciation, no same in being accurate.
I think In my secret life, the album 10 new songs, is less sibilant than live in London.
The true cost of a system, is in the number of acres you need to not wake up the entire neighborhood. Your up to ten. Ten acres just to dissipate volumn .....
Isn't this comparison a little off since the D'Agostino Progression Integrated is about 8k more?
I hate the fact that you pay 1K more for the McIntosh integrated amp 8950 than the 8900, which still has the DAC module but less the HDMI ARC feature... my next system upgrade needs to have that HDMI ARC feature, whether it is an option on a stand-alone preamp or integrated amplifier... i may just end up sending the extra for the 8950 lol... it's hard to find stand-alone preamps with HDMI ARC feature, my system upgrade budget will be at most 10K, far more then i ever paid for separates... IF only my late 90's Adcom tuner preamp had codes listed for universal remotes, i hate having to mess with using a remote for my TV and then the Adcom remote for volume control... since my Samsung TV was a newer model it had no audio analog outputs for my preamp, i had to get a digital converter... if you have any suggestions i am all ears lol...
Margarine smoothness lol
Your comparing truffles to magic mushrooms. Maybe the DAgastiono is too revealing hearing things not necessarily intended in the recording. I'll take buttery smooth every day as that is less fatiging.
A revealing system doesn't necessarily translate to fatiguing. A system can be quite revealing yet neutral... not bright. I prefer revealing.
Most all bands from before digital media were mixed for what fit on LP's thus restricting dynamic range. As you know a whole host of compression and limiting leads to a poor listening experience on good equipment..
I will never understand why McIntosh in Europe cost double and one ma12000 cost around 25 k euro
12:55 Joe Santarini? Santariani? What a mess up from Audio Exelexelence.. Exellellexixe... sorry...
Stop "banning" words. There is nothing wrong with the terms buttery or organic when describing the sound.
"There is nothing wrong with the terms buttery or organic " - if one is describing food. But for sound they are terrible descriptors.
@@TheDanEdwards the alternatives are not great either.
@@TheDanEdwards No they aren't. They have been used for decades.
Errr…. A joke perhaps?
How about a Vilip and CeCe cameo appearance???
One can actually by a car for the price of these amps! 😅
Bring back the nice girl.
"There's no logic behind my statements" - not a particularly convincing sales approach.
Sure it is... logical can be interpreted as a detailed and analytical sounding reproduction, where emotional is less detailed like tubes. Audiophiles keep searching for the neutral reproduction, and seem to want every detail of the reproduction, but they get lost searching for the next level and forget why they started in the first place, enjoying the music. Their statement shows a final end to the search, not with the head, but with the heart.
Did you’ll ever review the MC462? If so I can’t find the video.
I've been following your channel since internet resumed after the dinasours extinction and love it. But..... your audio has a very annoying low frequency pops. I have to turn off my rel subs or bypass my audio system altogether by using my tv speakers. I don't think is on my end, I think is you guys. Anyone with the same audio problem?
Apple airpods pro 2 - sounds ok.
Did this guy say that Led Zep is bad sounding???Dude!Buy a proper CD player thats sounds analog like a CEC and then buy the Led Zep SHM CDS from Japan,the best sound ever,stop with the silly streaming shit buy a CD player,thats my take guys!
Since none of you can agree on anything, you will now be replaced by an AI computer running ChatGPT.
🏃
What a world it would be if everyone agrees on everything
@@adrianlow2114 I was just joking. I would never expect for everyone to agree.
These reviewers are like drug pushers pushing their stuff on us?
They review what is in the store. What else would they review, they are not RUclipsrs. They are retailers. Doesn't seem like they are forcing you to buy.
I don’t like these comparisons. The best, is the one someone likes most. Period. I don’t need the opinion of someone else to figure that out. My ears decide.
Adrian you are so transparent…you make more profit selling the DAgostino and the extras-PS DAC, etc. so of course you give it the nod. And, put your arm in a sling for patting your back too hard while stumbling into a “diversity worm hole”. Just be honest on all things…the mirror never lies. I do miss Jay :]
Wow, a personal attack? How do you know what I make on products? I actually make as much on both D'Agostino and McIntosh on a percentage basis, and on a revenue basis, McIntosh is a much bigger contributor to my sales. Why would I jeopardize that relationship by preferring the D'Agostino? And why would I let Lewis and Mike say they preferred the McIntosh on an emotional level?
I also said I preferred the D'Agostino internal DAC. If profit was the main motivator, I should have said that you need to buy the PS Audio DAC.
Yea dude that was a jerk move. He probably gives discounts off retail if you ask nicely.
What a riot, a bunch of old people whose top end hearing dropped off years ago, talking about audio
Based upon your listening tastes, just get fricking boom box for $50 its sounding like rubbish either way!!!
Couldn't agree more
Two systems, virtually no one will ever hear, nor buy. The fact that a dude, wants to listen to the Stones, in A high end system is a nonstarter. Completely disqualified. Sorry. $30k amp to listen to garage band music, or some techno brain boggle, just screams stupid.
So no music… just useless blabling