39:27 to quntify the Ssong track record Dom said - 2017 IMT (Flame-Xmithie-Pob-Cody-Olleh) went 2nd, but that team doesnt need much coaching its all already vets outside of Cody Sun (and he joined after Spring where they went 7th with Dardoch and swapped with CLG for Xmithie). 2018 TSM was 5/6 (the infamous Clutch series) into 3rd into missing worlds (it's the Mikeyeung, Zven Mithy year). Parth also (re)joined the coaching staff between spring and summer and prolly had more say than Ssong himself from that point. 2019 Fox was 5/6th into 10th (Solo, washed Rush, Fenix Apollo, Hahuko), it is not great roster but 4-14 in summer is pretty bad. Then we have the 2020 CLG (Ruin, Wiggly, Crown, Stixxay, Smoohie with a bunch of subs over the year) that was a disaster with 10th into 9th and winning 8 onstage games combined that year. And Crown and Ruin were good year before + Stixxay is playing well now so, well it shouldnt have gone as badly as it went on paper. Then he went back to KR, 5th into 10th (behind Cvmax) in 21 and 5th into 6th in 22. Then the miracle gauntler into worlds run. So he got top3 twice, once with basically all vets roster after joining mid year and a highway robbery trade (cos that was Xmithie for Dardoch trade turned out to be) and once with all series going to 5 and basically Bjerg doing Bjerg things. And he still missed worlds then anyways. That track record really isnt good, if we dont include Tigers (where he was behind NoFe, who actually has pretty good track record), it is really rough.
20:36 as a European fan and prominent member of Dom's chat - this 100%. Just why bother watching a bo1 that doesnt matter when it starts at 11 PM our time on a weekday, its no use. it's better to catch more LPL to see more of actual worlds contenders (or Dom hyping OMG up Smoge), since the only thing from NA that will matter will be playoffs (and more likely just like C9 and probably GGS series). And you can keep up by watching Dom's shows or videos about who is doing how in LCS anyways. To Dgons later point - original idea was for it to start 9 PM EU, which would let you watch 2-3 games not 1, which as Dom said would make a huge difference for us.
I have been watching LCS for over 10 years, and this was the first split ever that I was almost completely disconnected from. I caught what I could, but what I did watch, it just didn't feel up my alley. I'm getting closer to 30, and as a working adult, I have to work when the LCS is going. It's very sad for me as I grew up with this league. I want to support it. I watched LEC and LCS every weekend with friends. The time commitment was fine for us as it's something we loved. When it first changed, I took the stance that the league clearly wasn't being made for viewers like me anymore. I tried to rationilize that I must be the minority and that was something I could live with if it meant that the league was going to flourish in its new direction. But all viewership stats point to me not being in the minority. It seems to me that thwyve alienated the very viewership that got them to where they were before their fall in an attempt to bring in a whole new crowd, and that attempt has failed spectacularly. Their choices from days, to time slots, to hosting, to casting just baffles me. I dont know how others felt, but i loved the very detailed break downs the desk gave between games. It was part of what made me feel connected to teams and felt like I was learning higher level stuff. Now it just feels like mostly silly sections between games. I'm not saying there's no place for that, but I honestly liked the more professional atmosphere of the old league. I think LEC still walks this line spectacularly and with it also being on days that I can watch, it's become my main league viewing content. I don't mean to shit on all they've done. I hope they find success in their future decisions, but the ones they've made thus far feel like it's going in the very wrong direction and I hope they can right the ship in some way, even if that way doesn't appeal particularly to me. I obviously have way more thoughts on the whole thing, but this is my cut down version for the sake of some brevity.
The current LCS time start is terrible because it starts right as most people on the east coast are driving home from work and making dinner etc. So you miss the first game or two and then you have lost all interest for the night.
This is why it’s great for me, I get off watch the first game on my carpool home, and the rest play on TV while settle in for the night. This is a very person to person and if it went any later I’d go to bed some nights before games ended.
100%! For me if I miss a game or two, I just wait and watch the vods instead so I don't spoil anything for myself. Especially if it's one of the teams I really care about.
48:00 For the Solo contract situation if you checked the GCD before he was removed it actually said his final day was upon LCS Elimination, you can see the same thing currently on Insanity's contract in the GCD.
I use to always watch professional league, but with how unwatchable twitch is and downtime between matches I've slowly transitioned more into watching them on RUclips vods, and now with Co streams I really just watch the dom video that comes out for the good matches.
It is an annual award so if it is improvement over the course of the year or from year to year Licorice going from worst top laner in the league to contending for top all pro spots is 100% the most improved player.
As someone who's a complete ape on the side of co-streaming and streaming so many stuff as a job for you guys. I absolutely loved the first segment, although Face Check is more like shooting the shit just and pooling ideas, that first segment was such a professional deep dive. I love when you guys give insight to your jobs like this, especially now a days that the leagues are more content driven. Banger episode all around guys.
the part about the coaches was super good! having a good coach is so important. we have seen coach swaps in lec in XL and FNC and those were the worst teams of winter split. and they improved a ton. seeing another super team with a bad coach like FLY is just tragic for the players. can imagine if your on a team like that and you're struggling and your coach is useless its so easy to mental boom. like if the coach doesn't care about winning than who does at that point.
As a 3 year LCS viewer, watched a lot of sports before league. The quality of the show isn't the same without Dash. It felt a lot more professional, much easier to watch. I like the Eric Andre show but trying to pull a similar style segment really missed the mark imo, it was hard to watch. Then Letigress on cast, sounds like she's casting for toddlers with those funny voices. Not targeting anyone I could go on. It's much easier to watch co streamers than the actual broadcast and I feel like it wasn't like that before.
PapaSleazy has been a massive failure! He showed his true colors early on by backstabbing Meteos. He then "put together" 100T's oddly successful (yet always mediocre) roster simply by taking them from Golden Guardians and adding Ssumday. They replaced Damonte with the utterly useless Abbadagge. And then he absconded to Flyquest where he put together his dream Korean roster that only ever looked good on paper, but proved to be a disaster in terms of chemistry and massively underachieved. A team that couldn't even make Top 8 in the LCS. Surely even NA-haters like LS and IWD can't dredge up a way to blame NA solo Q for Fly's disintegration (well probably they can...or oh, it must be Spica and Vulcan's faults!)
Internal bleeding is actually fairly easy to get. Idk what DL had or did, but I had it once because I was taking Meds for toothpain and I thought I was taking two different ones, but the active ingredient was actually the same so I was ODing. It caused my stomach to bleed for a bit and bloat. Probably should have went to a doctor but thankfully it subsided a week after. Still, hope he's doing good and it's not serious!
About the point with Golden Guardians at 54:45 : Why does everyone forget, that the closer, FBI, Huhi Roster of 100T was bought from GG and it went to worlds like twice in a row with different top and mid.
I’m literally never know when lcs is even on after checking lol esports for the schedule too I’ve been loving watching lpl with Dom while getting ready in the morning
My weekends used to be watching lcs, then they moved it. I work, I cannot watch during that. And now I would not go back, I save so much time just watching a general highlights vid and the cast's videos. That and LCS level of skill looking so poor recently its hard to really get invested anymore. I still do not know why LEC would bother watching LCS, but seems like a no duh moving off of being right after that would lose a lot of those viewers. As for FLY, it really is crazy. 80% of teams make playoffs, to go from the clear #1 to having a bad ending in Spring to not making playoffs in Summer as a super team is just an insane failure.
Idk about everyone else, but its lately been easier to go to sleep a little early, wake up early, and watch LPL before work/ while getting ready, than it is to catch the LCS. Usually ill catch at least the middle Bo3, and maybe the first game of the last Bo3 on the way to work. I start at 7 and get off at 3:30/4, but by the time im home, hit a workout, shower and grab some dinner LCS is maybe halfway through the first shitty Bo1, and ill turn it on while i play some Warframe or League, but its mostly background noise. Ends at like 9, and im really only paying attention to when EG and GG play, every other team is kinda boring. As for LPL catching on, its almost impossible to talk ppl into watching VODs, but still easier than talking someone into watching LOL NA esports. Bottom line is in Valorant we look competitive. In LoL we dont.
I like the fact NA LCS is a patch ahead than the other major region teams, so major regions can watch us and confirm what’s bad and correct what we are doing when they catch up in patches
I´m pretty sure that at least in Europe, or more specifically Germany, where the LEC currently is based and playing their games, if you go beyond midnight, it can get REAL expensive, at least in retail, you get paid about double your hourly wage for 0-6 am , if its similar for E-Sports then at least the players would have to get paid a lot more if they pass midnight, which gets real expensive real fast outside of that, its actually pretty nice for the people in the timezone, which is most of western europe, since it basically replaces the primetime of 8pm while also kinda passing the time between getting home from work and prime time and you go to sleep soon enough to not fuck your schedule if you are in a job that requires you to show up at work at 6-8 am
Same thing in an opposite sense for top and his love boner for Fudge and his refusal to ever put his eye candy low ranked in anything or talk about them. I mentioned this in a comment that he just gets blind to one player every so often like Fudge, and Nemesis and in the face of everything cant say anything bad like a girl who cant say anything bad about the guy they like, comes off to me as creepy how he does that and then gives them baby-fied names like "Nemey, Fudgy-cake, Crownie" ect and for that moment hes on the love train he just cant see anything bad they do.
Listening to Dom around the 7:30 mark you can tell he is clearly intelligent and knows his stuff about the game. I think this entire time because of his voice and talking style I figured he doesn't really know much and is just a "streamer". Dom need not talk like a streamerboy to dumb himself down to market himself.
Wrt the schedules. we need to consider the demographic of fans. A lot of people who used to watch and play league in school/Uni would have grown older and started jobs. So the hours they can invest might be limited. The solution could be to attract the current generation of kids to LoL. But clearly, Valorant and WildRift (in Asia atleast) are now the favorite children.
I live in CET time zona and what i usually did in past years was watch LCS and as much LEC as i could before falling asleep live and rest the next day waiting for LCS. now its harder
He had some time in OCE and Turkey (which is where he met/played vs Bolulu in the past before both joined NACL this year) so maybe that took him out of contention? Either that or they just forgot/assumed he wasn't in his first year in a major region.
As a North American fan who works nights usually starting my shifts at 2PM I actually used to get to watch the first game or two before work but with the change I actually don't get to watch any LCS at all. If the games started at 12 still I'd get to watch a few games and if it started later at like 6PM I'd probably get to watch 1 or 2 games at the end of the night. The current change only really supports NA fans with 9-5 jobs and even then it doesn't really as many of the early games are still while people are in work/school.
20:30 I dont think Dom has a good perspective on what the average LoL viewer wants, his impression is being based on the type of people that follow his streams or whose entire lives is LoL which is a rather small sub-section imo. I've never known anyone to watch much more than just their own region... and the LoL fanbase works the same as any other fanbase in the history of sports/games, on average, people are infinitely more likely to support and watch a team/region that they feel is associated with them in some way. It's obvious.
This is the most reddit take I have seen what are you even saying. You think others dont watch why do you think LCS was doing great to ok before the schedule change. Yup because EU viewers would watch the LEC into the LCS to either have a laugh or watch before they sleep. The other issues are that nobody wants to go out of their way to watch LCS because it is dogshit I rather watch 2 tier league like the LFL than this. The players dont care to grind or improve and the people watching have gotten sick of this mentality every worlds lose and do nothing why watch a league where the players dont even know what a walkout is or care enough. NA players play for the kda and politics so they dont get fired
Physical sports will also have multiple games being played at the same time but teams are also city based so have a natural fan base. It's hard to replicate how Physical sports work for esports without major changes
Zven Rell was fine he followed up engages and peeled for Berserker. Huhi was essentially solo winning games on Rell completely removing carries from the game.
When are we going to get the voice comms of the coaches during draft like we did when Caps got soft flamed for wanting Vayne? There's so much discussion of who is making draft choices, but we never get that inside look anymore.
For me who has watched lcs for a long time and I haven’t really watched at all this season… it’s because this last worlds and msi just kinda put the final nail in the coffin for me and turned me off from caring about the success of teams in NA
Watching this episode and hearing the boys absolutely praising APA after witnessing him completely chain-int the entire NRG series just makes it so much more enjoyable 😂
i used to watch about 70-80% of the live lcs matches every weekend since season 4, but ever since the schedule change in 2023, i might be able to catch the last match of the day if I'm lucky and don't have too much overtime. I mean, i suppose it's better for me, i can spoil the results of the day, then watch only the vods for games I'm interested in at 1.5 speed and skip all the ads. saves me a ton of time I guess, but I'm not sure how this is helpful for the LCS when my views are going to a vod upload channel lol.
maybe they changed timezones to cut back on co streamers without explicity making rules around it to see if it would drive more viewers to the dedicated streams. when arguably they should open it up to more people
Im perfectly happy with an LCK or LPL split; Long enough to watch, but not too long to get bored. I even catch myself watching the lower teams like LGD or Anyone's legend
If LCS started at 7:00 PM EST, wouldn't wrap until midnight or later which is where probably 70% of NA viewers are I would guess (including CST as well) so its starts to get late. European LCS fans would long asleep by then. I think having the LCS on the West Coast is not ideal and it should probably relocate to where the majority of the viewer base is. Also probably cheaper to operate somewhere else as well. All this to say, LCS and Valorant would not have crossed paths in the Riot Games Studio once since the changes were made, so just stick it back on Weekends
I root for almost all of FLY's players individually but I am not a believer when I see them as a team. Orgs need to stop overestimating how good players are just because they are from Korea. You end up creating internal problems of communication, culture, and identity which get even worse if some are more domineering or don't speak English out of spite when pressed. Managment and coaches too cannot be too culturally different - they end up running in two different speeds which just confuses everyone. At times identity needs to be imposed from above ... you can't let 20 year olds dictate the whole environment nor can you have coaches that half of the players understand and half don't
Yo European here...i used 2 watch LCS even more than i watched LEC (kinda because it all started for me with CLG Hotshot Bigfat Chauster Double Elements and so on) but this year they LOST me finally...not only is the PLAYING part not "high quality" (wich it wasnt for years tbf) but also the Production went bad like wtf is this "make your bed play sion R´s BS? I am DONE with LCS for good. and BTW i was a discord comunity leader for german LCS viewers ~400+ ppl that lost more than HALF of the ppl THIS YEAR. It is impossible 2 watch mid week at this times....it is just NOT WORTH to watch as a eu viewer anyway...like u cant use anything from the ads...there is no team besides maybe C9 u can root for since u cant keep up with anything and now there isnt even a 2nd league anymore where u can kinda get some grasp of whos comin from ladder into pro into maybe lcs....its so fkd up
league needs larger patches, not stupid 5% AP ratio changes, things that actually change champions. If this is shipped with bigger changes, and less frequently, it'll be less disruptive to the season schedule. But also, they should play on LIVE patches. Where patches should drop late on a sunday or something so it doesnt interrupt games. What is fun to watch, is when the "meta" isn't figured out before all the pros are playing the matches because they are like 2 weeks behind on patch. Its more exciting when you see something for the first time, and pros doing it.
I urge people in the community to rewatch travis gafford interview (btw in it you will hear that it was a re-do and still - what are rioters saying in it now should be reevalued and settled). argument that change is not for LS and DOM is weak since viewership dropped
For instance they claim that after a split its the soonest they would look into other options yet the stick to what they did + why no one is asking why leauge in NA had to literally get diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and on death trial to start trying to make broadcast better? its so sad to see them try and smile so much knowing they also see numbers going down (I mean here the NA talent not the initial interviewes
This podcast is the least organized conversation I've ever seen. LS and Dom both just ramble things that are top of mind without making points at all relevant to the original question. It feels like they're still stuck in costream 'kill time with nonsense' mode
@@OMAR-vk9pi Perkz took a worse team to a good seed in a difficult tournament. 2018 all the korean teams turbo inted. C9 got to semis because afreeca forgot how to use their hands.
Unforgoiven appears in LS's chat and LS now mentions him nearly every stream so of COURSE he's an ALL PRO, even though he's been thoroughly mediocre for at least the last half of the split. And then "it gets a little weird...you have Stixxay but the AD Carries all suck." Stixxay has been great all split...but he sucks. If ONLY He would pop up on LS's stream sometime and blow some kisses he would magically become great. Oddly enough even Unforgiven with all his inherent EU bias said Berserker was #1 and Stixxay was a clear #2.
Now hes loving Unforgiven. Notice he does this for Fudge, Nemesis, Crownshot ect. And in the time hes into them he cant shut up how underrated they are, how great they are and he wont shup up about them. Its so weird to me.
It just seems like LS cant diss whoever he has a boner for, this time its fudge. Same thing when he had a boner for Nemesis. I just get the strange feeling LS likes someone and just cant see past them bc he just also really really really really likes them, like the obsessed girl who cant shut up about their crush, hes always talking about that one person hes obsessed with at a time. both Dom and Dgon agree Fudge is not in top 3 and LS is like "see hes really good and he only throws when hes ahead randomly so that must mean hes good bc he gets ahead" but if its anyone else he doesnt like and you say "well see x player is good and see how he gets ahead" LS would say and logically so "you cant be good if you randomly throw your leads".
Pretty dog take on the adc all pro. Dom and ls don’t want to rank stixxay higher than prince because prince would have been better if his team was better? Prince was part of that team and shares responsibility for their poor performance. The question is who are the top three in their role this split, not who should hypothetically be the best if conditions are right.
Around 27 minutes in, why are we talking as if DL won't make it for playoffs? Dude is an ironman. He isn't going to miss unless the LCS officials get involved
I love these guys but lets be real. Sitting and watching league all day is not a hard job. idc how many hour you say you have to work to get it all in. It beats 99.99% of every other job I can think of.
The time change plus the walkout just made the LCS less interesting. I'll come back to league for Worlds that's it. The way the walkout happened and all the issues in NA made me as a viewer not care to watch the Same 15 Champs for another split.
The All-Pro feels so weird because in my head, C9 is the best team in all five positions, but watching them this split, I was constantly thinking about how bad they all were, which really makes me want to say none of them were at the top of their role. In the end, though, they were only bad compared to my expectations of them and not compared to their counterparts.
@@Shreddasaurus nah Fudge is the best, Zven is very good and sometimes the best depending on the meta, and I guess EMENES hasn't proven himself yet but he should have the highest ceiling of any mid.
@@tiger5869 We found LS's burner account. The only analyst or other prominent person in the scene who says Fudge is top 3 is Fudge. And no way is Emenes top 3 either.
How do you burnout doing what you like and making a better living then people who arguably work longer and harder then you without as competent teammates where’s as most of us don’t work with other pros and have people hired to cater to our needs as a team? I elo boosted in 2015 back when 3v3 was extremely abusable for boosters like myself. I played the game as much as possible it was a job then and I loved it. Never burnt out back then.
you said forgive jo you can barely see when.... and my mind was literally about to say when you're asian, but that's not where you were going with that. my bad.
Worst season of LCS ever? Can't remember a season with this few hype games, this few viewership, this much BTS implosion (and onscreen as well with the constant LeTigress shilling). Stale meta, lack of storylining... the list goes on
Flyquest is without a doubt the biggest failure of a team in LCS. This is one of the weakest LCS splits in several years and Fly still managed to lose bottom tier teams, with a roster full of players that were all arguably top of their role. Flyquest mentally boomed extremely hard and there was no recovering after the boom.
Flyquest isn’t the biggest failure. They were just being overhyped. 2016 immortal is actually a failure. No one or almost no one in flyquest has international showing (not experience, showing like good performance). I don’t even know where the hype even coming from. Just because they rank high in LCK doesn’t mean anything lol
Like Vicla isn’t close to faker and chovy and even bdd and prince, while he was good, the adc pool in LCK is literally guma deft maybe aiming, and ruler (prince day). So much hype for no reason lol
But do you really want to play on the same field as the lck and lpl ? I feel like decision making and original drafts are a better way to compete against these guys, however i am not watching lcs so idk which team would fit the most.
Respectfully disagree. NA cam never be as good as any other region because we do not play the game as much. All games in the regular season should be BO3 series. Scheduling is a non-issue. Teams don't play enough, so no one cares when they play in the first place
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
39:27 to quntify the Ssong track record Dom said - 2017 IMT (Flame-Xmithie-Pob-Cody-Olleh) went 2nd, but that team doesnt need much coaching its all already vets outside of Cody Sun (and he joined after Spring where they went 7th with Dardoch and swapped with CLG for Xmithie).
2018 TSM was 5/6 (the infamous Clutch series) into 3rd into missing worlds (it's the Mikeyeung, Zven Mithy year). Parth also (re)joined the coaching staff between spring and summer and prolly had more say than Ssong himself from that point.
2019 Fox was 5/6th into 10th (Solo, washed Rush, Fenix Apollo, Hahuko), it is not great roster but 4-14 in summer is pretty bad. Then we have the 2020 CLG (Ruin, Wiggly, Crown, Stixxay, Smoohie with a bunch of subs over the year) that was a disaster with 10th into 9th and winning 8 onstage games combined that year. And Crown and Ruin were good year before + Stixxay is playing well now so, well it shouldnt have gone as badly as it went on paper. Then he went back to KR, 5th into 10th (behind Cvmax) in 21 and 5th into 6th in 22. Then the miracle gauntler into worlds run.
So he got top3 twice, once with basically all vets roster after joining mid year and a highway robbery trade (cos that was Xmithie for Dardoch trade turned out to be) and once with all series going to 5 and basically Bjerg doing Bjerg things. And he still missed worlds then anyways. That track record really isnt good, if we dont include Tigers (where he was behind NoFe, who actually has pretty good track record), it is really rough.
20:36 as a European fan and prominent member of Dom's chat - this 100%. Just why bother watching a bo1 that doesnt matter when it starts at 11 PM our time on a weekday, its no use. it's better to catch more LPL to see more of actual worlds contenders (or Dom hyping OMG up Smoge), since the only thing from NA that will matter will be playoffs (and more likely just like C9 and probably GGS series). And you can keep up by watching Dom's shows or videos about who is doing how in LCS anyways. To Dgons later point - original idea was for it to start 9 PM EU, which would let you watch 2-3 games not 1, which as Dom said would make a huge difference for us.
I watched 95% of the games since 2013 - now I haven't watch a single one because that fucking schedule
I have been watching LCS for over 10 years, and this was the first split ever that I was almost completely disconnected from. I caught what I could, but what I did watch, it just didn't feel up my alley. I'm getting closer to 30, and as a working adult, I have to work when the LCS is going. It's very sad for me as I grew up with this league. I want to support it. I watched LEC and LCS every weekend with friends. The time commitment was fine for us as it's something we loved.
When it first changed, I took the stance that the league clearly wasn't being made for viewers like me anymore. I tried to rationilize that I must be the minority and that was something I could live with if it meant that the league was going to flourish in its new direction. But all viewership stats point to me not being in the minority. It seems to me that thwyve alienated the very viewership that got them to where they were before their fall in an attempt to bring in a whole new crowd, and that attempt has failed spectacularly.
Their choices from days, to time slots, to hosting, to casting just baffles me. I dont know how others felt, but i loved the very detailed break downs the desk gave between games. It was part of what made me feel connected to teams and felt like I was learning higher level stuff.
Now it just feels like mostly silly sections between games. I'm not saying there's no place for that, but I honestly liked the more professional atmosphere of the old league. I think LEC still walks this line spectacularly and with it also being on days that I can watch, it's become my main league viewing content.
I don't mean to shit on all they've done. I hope they find success in their future decisions, but the ones they've made thus far feel like it's going in the very wrong direction and I hope they can right the ship in some way, even if that way doesn't appeal particularly to me.
I obviously have way more thoughts on the whole thing, but this is my cut down version for the sake of some brevity.
Most of us just watch for the sneaky/meteos costream vibes. Can't wait for doublelift to reretire so he can be back on the costream
The current LCS time start is terrible because it starts right as most people on the east coast are driving home from work and making dinner etc. So you miss the first game or two and then you have lost all interest for the night.
And when westcoasters are right in the middle of their work day.... I haven't watched a single live game in 2023 (outside of playoff weekends)
This is why it’s great for me, I get off watch the first game on my carpool home, and the rest play on TV while settle in for the night. This is a very person to person and if it went any later I’d go to bed some nights before games ended.
100%! For me if I miss a game or two, I just wait and watch the vods instead so I don't spoil anything for myself. Especially if it's one of the teams I really care about.
Midwest is not that terrible. Lcs is literally the only league that works with my time schedule.
@@toadums and for europeans its during the night during the week lol it blows, havent watched any lcs apart from dom vods when 100t plays
48:00 For the Solo contract situation if you checked the GCD before he was removed it actually said his final day was upon LCS Elimination, you can see the same thing currently on Insanity's contract in the GCD.
They really said be gone immediately 😂
I use to always watch professional league, but with how unwatchable twitch is and downtime between matches I've slowly transitioned more into watching them on RUclips vods, and now with Co streams I really just watch the dom video that comes out for the good matches.
If you have TMobile, twitch is literally unwatchable.
1:00:39 Depending on how we define most improved player, shouldn’t Licorice hold up to that title?
It is an annual award so if it is improvement over the course of the year or from year to year Licorice going from worst top laner in the league to contending for top all pro spots is 100% the most improved player.
depending on how we define it. "most un-regressed" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, I guess.
dgon always wants dom to talk about piglet
As someone who's a complete ape on the side of co-streaming and streaming so many stuff as a job for you guys. I absolutely loved the first segment, although Face Check is more like shooting the shit just and pooling ideas, that first segment was such a professional deep dive. I love when you guys give insight to your jobs like this, especially now a days that the leagues are more content driven. Banger episode all around guys.
the part about the coaches was super good! having a good coach is so important. we have seen coach swaps in lec in XL and FNC and those were the worst teams of winter split.
and they improved a ton. seeing another super team with a bad coach like FLY is just tragic for the players. can imagine if your on a team like that and you're struggling and your coach is useless its so easy to mental boom. like if the coach doesn't care about winning than who does at that point.
26 minutes for dom to flame piglet, im proud of his self-control
As a 3 year LCS viewer, watched a lot of sports before league. The quality of the show isn't the same without Dash. It felt a lot more professional, much easier to watch. I like the Eric Andre show but trying to pull a similar style segment really missed the mark imo, it was hard to watch. Then Letigress on cast, sounds like she's casting for toddlers with those funny voices. Not targeting anyone I could go on. It's much easier to watch co streamers than the actual broadcast and I feel like it wasn't like that before.
Agreed for years this was built as sports league broadcast and while I enjoy the new one I still think it doesn't fit the tone for the LCS
PapaSleazy has been a massive failure! He showed his true colors early on by backstabbing Meteos. He then "put together" 100T's oddly successful (yet always mediocre) roster simply by taking them from Golden Guardians and adding Ssumday. They replaced Damonte with the utterly useless Abbadagge. And then he absconded to Flyquest where he put together his dream Korean roster that only ever looked good on paper, but proved to be a disaster in terms of chemistry and massively underachieved. A team that couldn't even make Top 8 in the LCS. Surely even NA-haters like LS and IWD can't dredge up a way to blame NA solo Q for Fly's disintegration (well probably they can...or oh, it must be Spica and Vulcan's faults!)
Please make more and longer face checks! I would pay for this drug
Internal bleeding is actually fairly easy to get. Idk what DL had or did, but I had it once because I was taking Meds for toothpain and I thought I was taking two different ones, but the active ingredient was actually the same so I was ODing. It caused my stomach to bleed for a bit and bloat. Probably should have went to a doctor but thankfully it subsided a week after. Still, hope he's doing good and it's not serious!
About the point with Golden Guardians at 54:45 : Why does everyone forget, that the closer, FBI, Huhi Roster of 100T was bought from GG and it went to worlds like twice in a row with different top and mid.
I’m literally never know when lcs is even on after checking lol esports for the schedule too I’ve been loving watching lpl with Dom while getting ready in the morning
My weekends used to be watching lcs, then they moved it. I work, I cannot watch during that. And now I would not go back, I save so much time just watching a general highlights vid and the cast's videos. That and LCS level of skill looking so poor recently its hard to really get invested anymore. I still do not know why LEC would bother watching LCS, but seems like a no duh moving off of being right after that would lose a lot of those viewers.
As for FLY, it really is crazy. 80% of teams make playoffs, to go from the clear #1 to having a bad ending in Spring to not making playoffs in Summer as a super team is just an insane failure.
"Is Faker the GOAT right now?"
Always has been
Idk about everyone else, but its lately been easier to go to sleep a little early, wake up early, and watch LPL before work/ while getting ready, than it is to catch the LCS. Usually ill catch at least the middle Bo3, and maybe the first game of the last Bo3 on the way to work.
I start at 7 and get off at 3:30/4, but by the time im home, hit a workout, shower and grab some dinner LCS is maybe halfway through the first shitty Bo1, and ill turn it on while i play some Warframe or League, but its mostly background noise. Ends at like 9, and im really only paying attention to when EG and GG play, every other team is kinda boring. As for LPL catching on, its almost impossible to talk ppl into watching VODs, but still easier than talking someone into watching LOL NA esports. Bottom line is in Valorant we look competitive. In LoL we dont.
Didnt know you had a Podcast! Nice!
I like the fact NA LCS is a patch ahead than the other major region teams, so major regions can watch us and confirm what’s bad and correct what we are doing when they catch up in patches
26:24 There was no way Dom wouldn't mention Piglet here
I´m pretty sure that at least in Europe, or more specifically Germany, where the LEC currently is based and playing their games, if you go beyond midnight, it can get REAL expensive, at least in retail, you get paid about double your hourly wage for 0-6 am , if its similar for E-Sports then at least the players would have to get paid a lot more if they pass midnight, which gets real expensive real fast
outside of that, its actually pretty nice for the people in the timezone, which is most of western europe, since it basically replaces the primetime of 8pm while also kinda passing the time between getting home from work and prime time and you go to sleep soon enough to not fuck your schedule if you are in a job that requires you to show up at work at 6-8 am
It's beautiful to see LS refuse to rank supports because of Huhi being the best
LS is goofy af
Same thing in an opposite sense for top and his love boner for Fudge and his refusal to ever put his eye candy low ranked in anything or talk about them. I mentioned this in a comment that he just gets blind to one player every so often like Fudge, and Nemesis and in the face of everything cant say anything bad like a girl who cant say anything bad about the guy they like, comes off to me as creepy how he does that and then gives them baby-fied names like "Nemey, Fudgy-cake, Crownie" ect and for that moment hes on the love train he just cant see anything bad they do.
@Pineapplelesspineapplepizza well he is mentally ill
1:18:31 ralph nader gang! let's go!
Listening to Dom around the 7:30 mark you can tell he is clearly intelligent and knows his stuff about the game. I think this entire time because of his voice and talking style I figured he doesn't really know much and is just a "streamer". Dom need not talk like a streamerboy to dumb himself down to market himself.
sounds like a you problem.
Wrt the schedules. we need to consider the demographic of fans.
A lot of people who used to watch and play league in school/Uni would have grown older and started jobs.
So the hours they can invest might be limited.
The solution could be to attract the current generation of kids to LoL. But clearly, Valorant and WildRift (in Asia atleast) are now the favorite children.
As The Best Lee Sin Low Elo NA , I Approve This Upload
I live in CET time zona and what i usually did in past years was watch LCS and as much LEC as i could before falling asleep live and rest the next day waiting for LCS. now its harder
god i miss facecheck whenever it goes on break
Is this on Spotify?
LCS channel went from 189K to 203K subs this year so that’s nice at least
Does Emenes not count as a rookie? I know he has bounced regions but it was academy teams if I remember
He had some time in OCE and Turkey (which is where he met/played vs Bolulu in the past before both joined NACL this year) so maybe that took him out of contention? Either that or they just forgot/assumed he wasn't in his first year in a major region.
BLESS YOU BROTHER JOEEE
As a North American fan who works nights usually starting my shifts at 2PM I actually used to get to watch the first game or two before work but with the change I actually don't get to watch any LCS at all. If the games started at 12 still I'd get to watch a few games and if it started later at like 6PM I'd probably get to watch 1 or 2 games at the end of the night. The current change only really supports NA fans with 9-5 jobs and even then it doesn't really as many of the early games are still while people are in work/school.
20:30 I dont think Dom has a good perspective on what the average LoL viewer wants, his impression is being based on the type of people that follow his streams or whose entire lives is LoL which is a rather small sub-section imo.
I've never known anyone to watch much more than just their own region... and the LoL fanbase works the same as any other fanbase in the history of sports/games, on average, people are infinitely more likely to support and watch a team/region that they feel is associated with them in some way. It's obvious.
This is the most reddit take I have seen what are you even saying. You think others dont watch why do you think LCS was doing great to ok before the schedule change. Yup because EU viewers would watch the LEC into the LCS to either have a laugh or watch before they sleep. The other issues are that nobody wants to go out of their way to watch LCS because it is dogshit I rather watch 2 tier league like the LFL than this. The players dont care to grind or improve and the people watching have gotten sick of this mentality every worlds lose and do nothing why watch a league where the players dont even know what a walkout is or care enough. NA players play for the kda and politics so they dont get fired
Scotty doesn’t know
Physical sports will also have multiple games being played at the same time but teams are also city based so have a natural fan base. It's hard to replicate how Physical sports work for esports without major changes
That struggle around picking top 3 in each role speaks volume
Was Busio treating it like a pro when he locked in Azir support?
Dom talks about Zven on engage and mentions rell but he dominated on that champ. He sucks at Rakan and Naut but is rell is fire.
Zven Rell was fine he followed up engages and peeled for Berserker. Huhi was essentially solo winning games on Rell completely removing carries from the game.
dGon's laugh is so theraputic
The schedule for lcs works for me bc I can watch the games during and after work
Prince getting ready for his han sama arc
When are we going to get the voice comms of the coaches during draft like we did when Caps got soft flamed for wanting Vayne? There's so much discussion of who is making draft choices, but we never get that inside look anymore.
I'm sad I didn't get more flame for the allpro segment toplane is such a wack role outside of lpl it's crazy
For me who has watched lcs for a long time and I haven’t really watched at all this season… it’s because this last worlds and msi just kinda put the final nail in the coffin for me and turned me off from caring about the success of teams in NA
Watching this episode and hearing the boys absolutely praising APA after witnessing him completely chain-int the entire NRG series just makes it so much more enjoyable 😂
i used to watch about 70-80% of the live lcs matches every weekend since season 4, but ever since the schedule change in 2023, i might be able to catch the last match of the day if I'm lucky and don't have too much overtime. I mean, i suppose it's better for me, i can spoil the results of the day, then watch only the vods for games I'm interested in at 1.5 speed and skip all the ads. saves me a ton of time I guess, but I'm not sure how this is helpful for the LCS when my views are going to a vod upload channel lol.
i've been having trouble while listening to this show, we talking about na or eu?
most improved for licorice if you dont include playoffs last split and just include regular season
maybe they changed timezones to cut back on co streamers without explicity making rules around it to see if it would drive more viewers to the dedicated streams. when arguably they should open it up to more people
I highly doubt this played any role in the time change
Im perfectly happy with an LCK or LPL split; Long enough to watch, but not too long to get bored. I even catch myself watching the lower teams like LGD or Anyone's legend
If LCS started at 7:00 PM EST, wouldn't wrap until midnight or later which is where probably 70% of NA viewers are I would guess (including CST as well) so its starts to get late. European LCS fans would long asleep by then. I think having the LCS on the West Coast is not ideal and it should probably relocate to where the majority of the viewer base is. Also probably cheaper to operate somewhere else as well.
All this to say, LCS and Valorant would not have crossed paths in the Riot Games Studio once since the changes were made, so just stick it back on Weekends
26:41 Daily Piglet bingo
I liked the format other than start time ect
Is Grabz actually up for grabs as a coach?
I root for almost all of FLY's players individually but I am not a believer when I see them as a team. Orgs need to stop overestimating how good players are just because they are from Korea. You end up creating internal problems of communication, culture, and identity which get even worse if some are more domineering or don't speak English out of spite when pressed. Managment and coaches too cannot be too culturally different - they end up running in two different speeds which just confuses everyone. At times identity needs to be imposed from above ... you can't let 20 year olds dictate the whole environment nor can you have coaches that half of the players understand and half don't
Yo European here...i used 2 watch LCS even more than i watched LEC (kinda because it all started for me with CLG Hotshot Bigfat Chauster Double Elements and so on) but this year they LOST me finally...not only is the PLAYING part not "high quality" (wich it wasnt for years tbf) but also the Production went bad like wtf is this "make your bed play sion R´s BS? I am DONE with LCS for good. and BTW i was a discord comunity leader for german LCS viewers ~400+ ppl that lost more than HALF of the ppl THIS YEAR.
It is impossible 2 watch mid week at this times....it is just NOT WORTH to watch as a eu viewer anyway...like u cant use anything from the ads...there is no team besides maybe C9 u can root for since u cant keep up with anything and now there isnt even a 2nd league anymore where u can kinda get some grasp of whos comin from ladder into pro into maybe lcs....its so fkd up
LS and dom trying so hard to not mention any of the GG players in the voting damn the hate is real.
league needs larger patches, not stupid 5% AP ratio changes, things that actually change champions.
If this is shipped with bigger changes, and less frequently, it'll be less disruptive to the season schedule.
But also, they should play on LIVE patches. Where patches should drop late on a sunday or something so it doesnt interrupt games.
What is fun to watch, is when the "meta" isn't figured out before all the pros are playing the matches because they are like 2 weeks behind on patch. Its more exciting when you see something for the first time, and pros doing it.
Ok but was Vicla most improved? From 10th best midlaner to maybe 5-6th in the last week? Pretty big delta actually 😂
I urge people in the community to rewatch travis gafford interview (btw in it you will hear that it was a re-do and still - what are rioters saying in it now should be reevalued and settled).
argument that change is not for LS and DOM is weak since viewership dropped
For instance they claim that after a split its the soonest they would look into other options yet the stick to what they did
+ why no one is asking why leauge in NA had to literally get diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and on death trial to start trying to make broadcast better? its so sad to see them try and smile so much knowing they also see numbers going down (I mean here the NA talent not the initial interviewes
This podcast is the least organized conversation I've ever seen. LS and Dom both just ramble things that are top of mind without making points at all relevant to the original question. It feels like they're still stuck in costream 'kill time with nonsense' mode
not true
Depends how much the TL & C9 rosters have costed over the years. At least C9 with perkz did well at worlds!
C9 went farther in 2018 without him
@@OMAR-vk9pihurrrrrdurrr what is the chief differences between 2018 and 2021 hurrrrrr context what is that I just hate players for no reason
@@OMAR-vk9pi Perkz took a worse team to a good seed in a difficult tournament. 2018 all the korean teams turbo inted. C9 got to semis because afreeca forgot how to use their hands.
@@chrisdrakes2332 not true whatsoever
@@TheIronMan728 Ah you think afreeca played their best? :D
Unforgoiven appears in LS's chat and LS now mentions him nearly every stream so of COURSE he's an ALL PRO, even though he's been thoroughly mediocre for at least the last half of the split. And then "it gets a little weird...you have Stixxay but the AD Carries all suck." Stixxay has been great all split...but he sucks. If ONLY He would pop up on LS's stream sometime and blow some kisses he would magically become great. Oddly enough even Unforgiven with all his inherent EU bias said Berserker was #1 and Stixxay was a clear #2.
Now hes loving Unforgiven. Notice he does this for Fudge, Nemesis, Crownshot ect. And in the time hes into them he cant shut up how underrated they are, how great they are and he wont shup up about them. Its so weird to me.
It just seems like LS cant diss whoever he has a boner for, this time its fudge. Same thing when he had a boner for Nemesis. I just get the strange feeling LS likes someone and just cant see past them bc he just also really really really really likes them, like the obsessed girl who cant shut up about their crush, hes always talking about that one person hes obsessed with at a time. both Dom and Dgon agree Fudge is not in top 3 and LS is like "see hes really good and he only throws when hes ahead randomly so that must mean hes good bc he gets ahead" but if its anyone else he doesnt like and you say "well see x player is good and see how he gets ahead" LS would say and logically so "you cant be good if you randomly throw your leads".
Pretty dog take on the adc all pro. Dom and ls don’t want to rank stixxay higher than prince because prince would have been better if his team was better? Prince was part of that team and shares responsibility for their poor performance. The question is who are the top three in their role this split, not who should hypothetically be the best if conditions are right.
Faker is the Michael Jordan of league
Around 27 minutes in, why are we talking as if DL won't make it for playoffs? Dude is an ironman. He isn't going to miss unless the LCS officials get involved
Dgon shouting out the Filipinas made them hit a goal against New zealand
I love these guys but lets be real. Sitting and watching league all day is not a hard job. idc how many hour you say you have to work to get it all in. It beats 99.99% of every other job I can think of.
Does dgon not know how to use a mic or is it just a shit mic? His normal volume is like 70% and it drops to the point I can't hear anything
The league patches are fine. Not sure what the hell LS talking about. This is the most balance league has ever been
The time change plus the walkout just made the LCS less interesting. I'll come back to league for Worlds that's it. The way the walkout happened and all the issues in NA made me as a viewer not care to watch the Same 15 Champs for another split.
The All-Pro feels so weird because in my head, C9 is the best team in all five positions, but watching them this split, I was constantly thinking about how bad they all were, which really makes me want to say none of them were at the top of their role. In the end, though, they were only bad compared to my expectations of them and not compared to their counterparts.
@@Shreddasaurus nah Fudge is the best, Zven is very good and sometimes the best depending on the meta, and I guess EMENES hasn't proven himself yet but he should have the highest ceiling of any mid.
@@tiger5869 We found LS's burner account. The only analyst or other prominent person in the scene who says Fudge is top 3 is Fudge. And no way is Emenes top 3 either.
yeah but yamato is overdoing it...i really hope he doesnt get a lose screw from it.
Lcs should have short splits like this normally, best of ones are boring
Love to J brroooo❤❤❤❤
With them running during the day I skip LCS and maybe watch recaps or just watch LCK
Love to Joe man ❤❤🎉🎉
How do you burnout doing what you like and making a better living then people who arguably work longer and harder then you without as competent teammates where’s as most of us don’t work with other pros and have people hired to cater to our needs as a team? I elo boosted in 2015 back when 3v3 was extremely abusable for boosters like myself. I played the game as much as possible it was a job then and I loved it. Never burnt out back then.
you said forgive jo you can barely see when.... and my mind was literally about to say when you're asian, but that's not where you were going with that. my bad.
WHAT THE FUCK LOL
oh no
When I listen to this show I sometimes wonder if we’re even watching the same league. Just baffling opinions on players sometimes
Worst season of LCS ever? Can't remember a season with this few hype games, this few viewership, this much BTS implosion (and onscreen as well with the constant LeTigress shilling). Stale meta, lack of storylining... the list goes on
If Riot doesn't care about the LCS, why should we?
If Reven goes to fly they are probably a top 3 team and TSM bomb out
Flyquest is without a doubt the biggest failure of a team in LCS. This is one of the weakest LCS splits in several years and Fly still managed to lose bottom tier teams, with a roster full of players that were all arguably top of their role. Flyquest mentally boomed extremely hard and there was no recovering after the boom.
No joke replace all of fly quest management let lcs cook
Flyquest isn’t the biggest failure. They were just being overhyped. 2016 immortal is actually a failure. No one or almost no one in flyquest has international showing (not experience, showing like good performance). I don’t even know where the hype even coming from. Just because they rank high in LCK doesn’t mean anything lol
Like Vicla isn’t close to faker and chovy and even bdd and prince, while he was good, the adc pool in LCK is literally guma deft maybe aiming, and ruler (prince day). So much hype for no reason lol
WE NEED IT, WE WANT IT, WE SHOULD EXPECT IT: BJERGSEN (THE GOAT) RETURNS. LOOSY GOOSY LCS ARE SPRINTING FOR THE HEADLINE
Lmao LS struggling to give 3 supports was funny 😂
I think EG unironically has the highest ceiling on a pure hands and individual skill level. I really hope they go to worlds.
But do you really want to play on the same field as the lck and lpl ? I feel like decision making and original drafts are a better way to compete against these guys, however i am not watching lcs so idk which team would fit the most.
Good joke
I wonder which member they’ll starve this year?
Respectfully disagree. NA cam never be as good as any other region because we do not play the game as much. All games in the regular season should be BO3 series. Scheduling is a non-issue. Teams don't play enough, so no one cares when they play in the first place
I really question Papa Smithy, hes managment is awful.
Bring back winsome
Stop playing on old patches. It's a ridiculous concept. Adapt or lose.
Pretty sure LS’s coaching career is still considered the biggest failure in LCS history
We love Joe
Name one good or exciting rivalry rn in lcs? Between teams or players there is none. Such a boring and tired league.