I happened to be in an Italian restaurant in Washington DC many years ago when Tim Russert stopped in to pick up some takeout. God bless him, the dude crushed three beers while waiting for his food 😂.
My first car was a Vega GT. I bought it new in Sep 1976 when I was 18 and it was my only car for the next 10 years. I still have it, it hasn't rusted, the engine is original with 147K miles, and it still runs and drives, although I've only put a couple thousand miles on it since about 1990. I am currently having it restored to new.
I bought a used 73 Vega GT in 75' for $600. It had 15K miles with the oil consumption problem. GM had a recall in 75 and completely rebuilt the entire engine with 4 steel sleeves and new 4 core radiator. GM paid for everything except $100 for all new hoses. I drove it from Florida to Utah RT for 4 years and put 70K miles without any problems and with the 4speed i got 38 mpg.. I drove it till early 79 and then the AC compressor went, I had graduated and landed a great job in a fortune 500 company. To celebrate I bought a new end of the year1978 Toyota Celica fast back.
GM had a lot of great ideas through the years. Unfortunately, the technology wasn't as advanced as the ideas. Sleveless aluminum engine blocks, cylinder deactivation, and so much more. GM also has had a really annoying habit of perfecting a vehicle over time, only to cancel it when they finally got it right.
@@tholmes2169 It was reported in either Autoweek or Car and Driver that GM spent $1B on the Fiero redesign, then they killed it off after one model year. That’s $1B in the late ‘80s or roughly $2.9B today.
I absolutely LOVED my 1975 Vega Kammback. It was my first car so that clouds my perceptions. It had the huge, full width radiator and coolant recovery tank. With a 3-speed Hydramatic, it was never revved high. It was doomed to quarter panel and undercarriage rust after only 7 years from sitting outdoors in Chicago winters. I paid $2,400 in ‘75 ($15,000 today) and sold it for $800 in 1982 ($5,000 today.)
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After having Buicks and Caddies for most of their lives, my maternal grandparents bought a brand new 1975 three-door Vega! We lived near Sudbury, Ontario, at the time. One of the worst road salt/rust graveyards of automobiles. We drove that little thing all over Eastern North America for years, often towing a fairly large boat or camper trailer. The only problem, (and MAN, what a day that was!) we ever had was when the in-tank fuel pump died leaving us stranded in Northeastern Ontario, decades before most people had cellular 'phones. That tiny car was a nearly indestructible workhorse. No rust or engine problems, whatsoever.
Being high school age in the early ‘70s, Hot Rod and Car Craft were my magazines of choice and both ran advertisements for the Motion Industries V8 installation kits for the early Vegas. My dream car at that time was a 1970 Vega with an LT-1 350, M21 4 speed. One month after graduating I had the opportunity to purchase an LS6, M22 ‘70 Chevelle and that was the end of the Vega dream.
My paternal grandmother had a 1975 Chrysler Cordoba with a non-catalyst 400 and the infamous Lean Burn. She LOVED that car. It was her first brand new car and it was very reliable for her. Eventually, the car was passed down to me in 1996, and it ran fine for me. I should've held on to that car. It had only 56,000 miles.
My buddy has an early 80's prelude, you are so right about the vacuum line hell that was going on under that hood. Junction boxes, check valves... not a good time.
I was supposed to have a '71 Vega Wagon for my 1st car. My oldest sister, and brother in law, were supposed to give it to me, as I've turned 14yrs old, they still had it, the engine froze, and they offered to me, well by that time,,,,I've heard about the problems, with the Vega, I discretely vacated from that offer. Later on, getting my 1st car tuned out to be a 1967 Datsun PL411 Super Datsun Station wagon, with a side-draft , dual carb 1300cc , making a whopping 57 HP @ 5600 RPM! Great car, just had a "Gen" light always running, (which meant: keep spare battery , in the back, w/ Jumper cables), just incase you parked on an upgrade.
The small block fit so nicely in the Vega that is what Chevy should have offered. In the '70's in SoCal there were so many V8 Vegas I saw at all the cruise spots and hangouts - they were fun little rippers! As a GM fan I could not believe how many unforced engineering mistakes GM made in the '70's, it was painful.
Interesting note about the GM soft cams! I owned a ‘67 Camaro convertible with the 210hp 327. Changed the cam and lifters at about 89,000 miles. The can had at least two lobes that looked as flat as the fuel pump love, and of course, several lifters with huge divots and at least two with holes in them! On a side note, a couple of years after the cam and lifter job, I started working at the GM Diesel Equipment Division plant in Wyoming, MI. as a lifter finish grinder operator. Worked for that plant until 1981, then moved to a sister plant that built throttle body, and “Multec” multi point fuel injectors, later turned into a Rochester Products, AC Rochester, then finally a Delphi plant. I became a Journeyman Electrician in ‘96 and worked until it closed in 2006.
In college (early ‘80s) had a ‘67 Olds Delta 88 with the 425 4bbl. My best friend had a Triumph Spitfire. I used to tow him home from all over town, as one does when their friend owns a British ‘70’s sports car…It wrecked the transmission. I remember having to pay $425 to have it rebuilt. ❤
The Vega is such a great looking car. It's very unfortunate that a bad engine and rust has made them nearly impossible to find. Especially in any condition that would be worth investing any time and money into. The mid-70s big bumper cars can be made to look better with some modifications. Putting the early style bumpers on helps a lot with the appearance
Agreed that the original chrome bumper Vegas are very attractive little cars. My parents had a 72, I remember sleeping/laying down in the hatchback on the way home from weekend trips to my aunts, and looking up at the stars through the glass. I think they had it for four years and then moved on.
@RareClassicCars - Adam, Regarding the GM Turbo200 tranny, I bought a 1979 Olds Cutlass Cruiser from my parent's next door neighbors when it was about 4 or 5 years old. It was equipped with an Olds 260 V8 and what I presume was a turbo 200 in it. The first thing I did was to stick a trailer hitch on it and used it on occasion to pull my parent's 3,000 lb motorboat. I was hard on the car, and constantly had it on the floorboards to get up to speed, as the 260 was not very powerful. I owned the car for 5 or 6 years and replaced it in 1990 with my first brand new car - a Mazda MX6 5-speed (loved that car!). I guess I was lucky, but I never had any problems whatsoever with that transmission, or the engine for that matter. I always wished it had the larger 307 Olds V8 in it, but it served me well.😉😎
If you can find a MINT Vega, buy it. Especially if it has Cosworth engine. Put sleeves in it. I was a great looking car that the bean counters ruined. Cadillac hasn't made a good engine since they discontinued the 472/500. Lean Burn WAS a crappy system. Take it off for a driver car. The car itself is fine. Early 80's GM computer carb and fuel injected were pretty bad in the beginning. 200R4 ended up being OK once they beefed it up for the Turbo Buick Regal. Stay away from FMX and Warner automatics. Not because they were bad, but because parts are hard to get. The others have aftermarket race parts to beef them up and rebuild. In the end, buy what you like and buy the BEST example you can find.
The Vega is the first one I am going to buy, I had nothing but good luck with mine, 74 and 76 and no they didn't rust that bad. They used to do 40 MPG on a long trip and I enjoyed that part. How many cars today can match that. I never had any overheating troubles but then I'm a mechanic by trade so I have enough sense to check things over once in a while compared to the average drivers who are mostly idiots and just drive as long as they start.
I hate to disagree with you (sorry) on the Vega, throw in a SBC with a stick or auto, update the suspension a bit and it's a fun car to drive around Palos Verdes Hills. Small bumpers only....... lol
@@justinweidenbach3699 We used "Eastwood Internal Frame Coating" YEARS back for the doors, rockers, tailgate and anywhere else we could spray. The stuff works great.....
74 Vega had a built in a sensor to kill the engine when the oil burned off so much that it was inadequate. My mom carried around a case of Quaker State in the back of hers. With a 40 mile round trip commute, oil had to be added daily. You’re right, the styling was ok, but the engine was crap.
Hello Adam. 16:41 the Adam Shaaf player piano built in 1921 here has more vaccum lines. Ha Ha.. my folks bought it in Indiana in 1966..it originally had Lead hollow vacuum tubing. So oddly the 1921 beast with lead vacuum tubing got rubber tubing in 1966 and they dry rot quicker. The century old beast has a close loop pneumatic vacuum servo system to keep the player roll centered on the vacuum key sense bar.
I love 60s-70s Japanese cars but man they are very hard to own in America. To even get the slightest chance of finding parts you had to get lucky on Japanese auction websites for simple maintenance and body parts. In the US they were thought disposable when new and are long gone for the most part
I had a mid 80s Civic hatchback in the late 90s, early 2000s. When I bought it, the carburetor was bad, so I bought a new one and installed it myself at 18 years old. Surprisingly it worked perfectly and I never had any problems with it afterwards
I have a 87 Fleetwood with a 4100. Smoothest running car I ever had. Drove it for 4 years. Topped off the rad. Forgot to put the cap back on. 😢. Overheated it on the highway. Poured water in until it quit boiling out. I drove it to work after that for a few weeks but I think I burnt a valve. Runs rough. No white smoke. I think the head gasket problem was solved by 87.
Great video! One engine i would avoid is the Chevrolet 400ci small block. Not to be confused with the excellent big block 402, which Chevy sometimes called a 400. The 400 sb had siamesed cylinder bores which cause thermal issues. My grandfather had a GMC with this engine and it lasted about 80,000 miles.
Two gems I've had the privilege of driving 1. 1979 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme coupe with the 1979 only 260 Diesel V8. 2. 1976 Buick LeSabre coupe with a 231 V6.
Indeed the Vega was a looker. Very Camaro-like. A machinist told me, "back in the day", that the engines were good if the cylinders were bored out and lined with iron liners. True? Who knows. But I can appreciate a small, simple car - especially pre-battering-ram bumpers (1973). Honda was a little "late to the party" with fuel injection. I recall seeing the 2nd gen Prelude at a car show and remarking to the sales person about carburation instead of injection. He had some song and dance about why it was the better choice. They weren't bad when they were new, but now? No.
The TH200 was certainly glass. Our 1984 DeVille (beautiful car, btw the way) had the transmission fail 3 years in. Suprisingly, we never had an issue with the HT4100.
Glad to hear you give AMC engines some love. AMC had their of & on build quality issues but their engines were consistently reliable. Our ‘65 Ambassador 990H had a 327 4-bbl that was very quick and torquey off the line. Would get a little out of breath at around 80 mph but my parents never had any issues with it. We lived in Michigan at the time, and like pretty much all cars of the era, would start rusting after a couple of winters.
Hey, if you do get an old Vega you'll probably have the only one at the classic car meet. 🤣 I bought a Vega new back in the day and everything you said about them is right on the mark. I traded mine in on a 225 slant 6 Plymouth Duster after only 1 year due to the problems my Vega had. Unlike the Vega that Duster was so reliable it wouldn't surprise me if it was still running.
sounds like a beautiful day there, HERE: IN YUMA, Arizona, it's ALREADY 104F., supposed to get to 111F. We've got about 10 more days, until the temp drops to UNDER 100 , for the high!!!!!!!!
You know, for all the issues of the 4100, there sure seem to be a lot of survivors. I can't count the number of times I'm routinely tempted by those early 80s 4.1 Cadillacs, especially Eldorados. Trying to stay strong and hoping to find a 1980 or earlier car in my local area!
Great video Adam! I have to disagree with the Vega as I grew up around these cars and I would snatch pretty much any one of them in great condition that said,the cosworth is a hit in any book and like you said the 76 and 77 as well honestly I’m partial to the 74’s. And of course I agree with almost any gm full size car.
Flat cam - 1972 Opel 1900 engine, 78K miles, one owner, well maintained car. Flat cam or bent rod - 1970 Chev 350 100K miles, we didn't bother to find out Seized A/C compressor - 1970 Chev 40K Spun bearing - 1990 Chev 350 50K GM... not really feeling it.
Along with my x car, fiero, and fwd cadillacs I have several hondas, 83 civic, 85 accord, 87crx, etc and you are so correct on the carbureted hondas. When it all works they drive nice but even one small vacuum leak in that labyrinth of hoses and Katie bar the door. Two of my carb'd still work but I can see a future with webers in it. Also watch for rust. Late 70s to late 80s hondas rust very very badly so inspect them super close before buying one. I have had head gasket issues with some of them too. Open deck block design
I want to add, if you're into the smaller cars and especially GM, you can't go wrong with a second gen 2.2l J car (cavalier/sunturkey) especially with a 5spd! The 2.2l is bulletproof, the platform itself is fairly rugged and easy to work on, the interior noises like door handles, locks and hinges are absolutely hilarious (I mean that in a good way!). These cars were a class of their own, nothing compared to the physical experience of an old perfectly running and driving J car
Haha. My mom had a '73 Vega. It was a complete piece of crap. No power steering, slow as hell, very basic. By 1981 the engine started burning huge amounts of oil and we junked it. I'm honestly surprised it lasted that long since my sister and I abused the hell out of it.
#3 Lean Burn... You aren't kidding.. . I use a highway with an overpass at an intersection. I would be on the highway for several minutes on the throttle, then still under light pressure on the gas pedal so the closed throttle sensor wasn't yet engaged, coast to the light going uphill, and if it turned green upon approach, the advanced timing would sling shot the 5th Ave I used to drive. The 2.2 gears didn't seem to mind.
"THERMOQUAD! It’s the only carburetor that punishes you for going to wide-open throttle" - David Freiburger/Mike Finnegan....Roadkill episode when driving a 440 V8 equipped motorhome.....The first year Dakota has a similar setup to the lean burn system....but with a 2bll Holley 6280 feedback carb and a computer mounted on the right fender apron. Challenging to tune as well..and for some reason they changed to TBI for the 1988 model year.
I had an 85 DeVille, the oil pump failed on my 4.1. I replaced it with the updated 4.5 oil pump. Other than being gutless, it was a smooth engine and overall I loved the car. Edit: I also had an 83 Accord sedan, it would flood when parked at a curb. Upon restart it chugged for about 10 seconds. That didn't happen when parking in a lot.
My mother had a ‘84 DeVille that replaced her gem of a car, a ‘79 Seville (not diesel). The DeVille wasn’t a stop light king to put it mildly. Eventually she would buy a ‘93 DeVille with the 4.9L V8 which was a lot better. I bought the car from her in ‘97 and drove that car for two years until it had an unfortunate incident with a city bus (my fault, walked away).
I guess you beat the GM 5.7 Diesel drum long enough. Now as a transmission industry veteran, I don't agree w/the 200 metric being a road block to an other wise nice car a person may desire. Factor in $1000 for insurance on a repair, at a reputable rebuilder. The aftermarket makes it possible to have a very durable 200 behind the engine. NHRA Stock and Super Stock racers routinely run 500 hp + thru T-200s.
I knew someone that a 76 Impala with a 350. It was his work/business car so it had a lot of miles racked up on it in a years time. It had the problem with the soft camshaft.Failed on him in a little town in Pennsylvania.
Great video! That was very informative. To your list Adam I would add Fords and Mercurys with the 351C from 1972 and older. I have never had any major engine problems. But then the car has an old Holley 4 bbl and a no points distributor, plus in my state they don't emission test old cars so perhaps that is why I have not had major engine problems. The only possible wierd thing is the 351C uses a special thermostat which is difficult to find. Using an over the counter typical thermostat can result in engine overheating in hot weather.
Review 70 thru 74 Ventura Omega Apollo Nova with all available V 8 Engines with Automatics & Grenade box 4 on the floor stoplight to stoplight specials
One pair I'd add to the "don't" list is the '75-'76 US-spec 6 cylinder Granada and Monarch. At around 23 seconds to 60, they are, as far as I know, the slowest American cars of the 1970s. Of course, I'm sure they can be tweaked, but in their original form, they are not for the impatient.
I think the early Vegas had great styling especially the Kamback. Unfortunately, they were junk. GM could have nailed the market with that car and significantly held back the Japanese invasion. Instead, they shot themselves in the head and permanently destroyed the American small car. Of course , the Pinto added to the demise. I ended up buying a 72 Duper Beetle. No regrets.
They repeated some of the same mistakes with the FWD X-Cars. Had they not cost-cut component quality control, GM would have held off the Japanese for a little while longer. Even today, the X-car packaging is incredible.
Hey Adam, great content on this video. You missed your true calling as an engineer for any of the big 3! As a 24 year Honda Alliston procurement guy, Keihin is pronounced K-hen.
Like your videos! Vega original motor also had leaking valve stem seals . Nothing putting in a 305 V8 wouldn’t fix. But could you also put the Porsche 911 on your bad list so I can afford to buy a used one?
You, can find the original Chevrolet Vega commercial on RUclips. It, boasts about the specific aluminum cylinder wall compound, being stronger and more durable, than cast iron.😃
The dozen plus Vegas owners I knew in the Midwest in 1970s all loved them but *all* never owned them say after 1977. Lol. Two different friends parents owned a total of 7 of them and both owned them and discarded them like in a year. So today they say they were so great! :) In the mid 1980s in Ventura California gobs of clunker Vegas and Pintos were used on the Ventura circle ? track racing and demo debry stuff since cheap and zero following as collector cars. The funny thing is I remember you would see a smoke trail in the mid 1970s like some weird 2 cycle car and finally up ahead there would be a Vega smoking like mad. A girlfriend in 1978 had this great Pinto. I tuned it all up. Changed the oil etc. Then she traded it in on a stupid Vega and had to pay extra to get it. The darn thing smoked like mad so a totally a bad buy. Ridiculous. I the local cruising the coast event you about never see any Vegas or Pintos. But today I saw on regular roads a AMC Gremlin and 2 Pacers while going to buy groceries The Vega engine was great but not good for any abuse of overheating. Then the silicon exposed on the Aluminum cylinder bores got ruined. So you have thus weird bimodal love or hate of Vegas. Lol At one place in Southern California I worked at we had 2000 employees in 1979. There were folks with Pintos but no Vegas at all. There were about 4 to 5 folks with Metropolitan Nashes. All the few 6 Volt car folks parked in one area on rare cold days since it was easier to get your car jumped off.
I had an 85 Honda wagon carbureted. It worked great the whole time I owned it. But yeah, nobody would touch that carburetor and even less so now. Incredibly complex.
So far I agree with your list. There was the Cosworth Vega which was decent. I'd add, unfortunately the 82 Trans Am on the list. Mechanical dog, but a beaut to look at. I had it in stick. Horrible transmission, 305 had a flat cam issue.
Agreed…not sure why they didn’t use the Opel power train. My aunt still has a ‘75 Opel wagon with the Bosch mechanical fuel injection that sadly hasn’t moved from her garage in 40 years. One of these days I will get it running.
Driving an engine nonstop for countless miles proves nothing. Drive it like a housewife. Get in on a cold morning, crank it then floor it, then stop n go traffic etc...
Every Mopar Lean Burn engine equipped car I've ever known got absolutely phenomenal gas mileage..... Usually because it was sitting in a driveway or outside a shop door not running.
Hey Adam! I know you did a video on this car(was the first one I saw you do)can you do a video on the 1962 dodge darts and Plymouth belvederes? I know most think they are ugly but I don’t. Would really love to see you do a video on them.
I like how Oldsmobile came up with an aluminum 3.5 V8 in 1962 so good it was used in Land Rovers and Jaguars for decades and then 10 years later it apparently became lost technology. Anyway, LS swap.
Adam, Greetings from Toronto 🙏 I recently saw an 8-6-4 updated with the cylinder deactivation disabled, dual exhausts, wide tires, and some form of stiffer suspension. The body was beautifully straight, and the interior original (via the owner's spiel to me). It looked 80-90% stock. What would you think of something like that 🤔? 🖖🙏
10:45 Didn't the Cadillac versions of the '85 C-body cars have some kind of electrically-activated ferrofluid clutch instead of the usual lockup clutch? It always sounded like an interesting feature, but I have no idea how well it worked or how long it was made.
All these calls to drop SBC in a Vega. Doesn't that make the car nose-heavy as hell and a cramped installation? If I had to change out that aluminum 140, I'd replace it with a longitude-mount 60-degree Chevy V6 like the ones used in the S-10 pickups.
Are there any Vegas left? I haven't seen one in decades. I do see a Corvair every now and then. I had an 81 Honda Accord with a 3bbl carb on it and it HATED ethanol fuel. It would vapor lock every time I put that gas in it. I spent a lot of money at the Honda dealer trying to fix the stalling issue with hot and parked for a few minutes and I changed the gas and the problem went away.
Hi. I've always enjoyed your work. I have a question. I owned a Chevy Cobalt SS. So, the engine is 260hp with 260 ft pounds. Can I through one in like say a 72 Cadillac? Well more like replace the 1976 170hp 500ci?
If you're not mechanically inclined and/or don't have a lot of time and money to invest in a car. I wouldn't buy anything built after they started putting electronic controls on the engine. Unless you don't mind to make modifications to eliminate the problem parts like electronic carburetors and things like that. Depending on where you live, the amount of modifications you can make vary
I think there's a different easy to look at these flawed classics now, decades on. If they were prone to rust, and still survive today without significant rust, for example, they're worth keeping. Most engines can be repaired or replaced. Upgrade that TH 200 to a TH 350. Doing what you have to in order to keep a flawed classic functional is the American way!
I happened to be in an Italian restaurant in Washington DC many years ago when Tim Russert stopped in to pick up some takeout. God bless him, the dude crushed three beers while waiting for his food 😂.
My first car was a Vega GT. I bought it new in Sep 1976 when I was 18 and it was my only car for the next 10 years. I still have it, it hasn't rusted, the engine is original with 147K miles, and it still runs and drives, although I've only put a couple thousand miles on it since about 1990. I am currently having it restored to new.
I saw a Vega on the road about two years ago, and I was shocked to realize I had forgotten they ever existed.
A few years back I had a V8 Gremlin, fun car to drive......
Again, great watch...........
I bought a used 73 Vega GT in 75' for $600. It had 15K miles with the oil consumption problem. GM had a recall in 75 and completely rebuilt the entire engine with 4 steel sleeves and new 4 core radiator. GM paid for everything except $100 for all new hoses. I drove it from Florida to Utah RT for 4 years and put 70K miles without any problems and with the 4speed i got 38 mpg.. I drove it till early 79 and then the AC compressor went, I had graduated and landed a great job in a fortune 500 company. To celebrate I bought a new end of the year1978 Toyota Celica fast back.
GM had a lot of great ideas through the years. Unfortunately, the technology wasn't as advanced as the ideas. Sleveless aluminum engine blocks, cylinder deactivation, and so much more. GM also has had a really annoying habit of perfecting a vehicle over time, only to cancel it when they finally got it right.
That's GM!😂
Yeah I still remember the Fiero was finally awesome and then they killed it.
@@tholmes2169 It was reported in either Autoweek or Car and Driver that GM spent $1B on the Fiero redesign, then they killed it off after one model year. That’s $1B in the late ‘80s or roughly $2.9B today.
Jeesh, Adam, let the Pontiac block issue go, man. I have. Bean counters never forget.
I absolutely LOVED my 1975 Vega Kammback. It was my first car so that clouds my perceptions. It had the huge, full width radiator and coolant recovery tank. With a 3-speed Hydramatic, it was never revved high. It was doomed to quarter panel and undercarriage rust after only 7 years from sitting outdoors in Chicago winters. I paid $2,400 in ‘75 ($15,000 today) and sold it for $800 in 1982 ($5,000 today.)
After having Buicks and Caddies for most of their lives, my maternal grandparents bought a brand new 1975 three-door Vega! We lived near Sudbury, Ontario, at the time. One of the worst road salt/rust graveyards of automobiles. We drove that little thing all over Eastern North America for years, often towing a fairly large boat or camper trailer. The only problem, (and MAN, what a day that was!) we ever had was when the in-tank fuel pump died leaving us stranded in Northeastern Ontario, decades before most people had cellular 'phones. That tiny car was a nearly indestructible workhorse. No rust or engine problems, whatsoever.
My first car was a '74 Chevy Vega. It was a turd, but it taught me a lot about vehicle maintenance.
Being high school age in the early ‘70s, Hot Rod and Car Craft were my magazines of choice and both ran advertisements for the Motion Industries V8 installation kits for the early Vegas. My dream car at that time was a 1970 Vega with an LT-1 350, M21 4 speed. One month after graduating I had the opportunity to purchase an LS6, M22 ‘70 Chevelle and that was the end of the Vega dream.
@RareClassicCars - 2.3 liter 440 CUBIC INCH, Adam? I think you meant to say 140 cubic inches, lol!😜😆😂🤣😁😉😎
Oops!
I caught that too.
My paternal grandmother had a 1975 Chrysler Cordoba with a non-catalyst 400 and the infamous Lean Burn. She LOVED that car. It was her first brand new car and it was very reliable for her. Eventually, the car was passed down to me in 1996, and it ran fine for me. I should've held on to that car. It had only 56,000 miles.
I didn't think Chrysler started installing lean burn until 1976...
Can’t go wrong with almost any pre emission v8. Even small blocks made good power.
My buddy has an early 80's prelude, you are so right about the vacuum line hell that was going on under that hood. Junction boxes, check valves... not a good time.
I was supposed to have a '71 Vega Wagon for my 1st car. My oldest sister, and brother in law, were supposed to give it to me, as I've turned 14yrs old, they still had it, the engine froze, and they offered to me, well by that time,,,,I've heard about the problems, with the Vega, I discretely vacated from that offer. Later on, getting my 1st car tuned out to be a 1967 Datsun PL411 Super Datsun Station wagon, with a side-draft , dual carb 1300cc , making a whopping 57 HP @ 5600 RPM! Great car, just had a "Gen" light always running, (which meant: keep spare battery , in the back, w/ Jumper cables), just incase you parked on an upgrade.
Hard to find a Vega that has any original engine 😂 They all have small 8s in them . Would love to have one 🥰
The small block fit so nicely in the Vega that is what Chevy should have offered. In the '70's in SoCal there were so many V8 Vegas I saw at all the cruise spots and hangouts - they were fun little rippers! As a GM fan I could not believe how many unforced engineering mistakes GM made in the '70's, it was painful.
Interesting note about the GM soft cams! I owned a ‘67 Camaro convertible with the 210hp 327. Changed the cam and lifters at about 89,000 miles. The can had at least two lobes that looked as flat as the fuel pump love, and of course, several lifters with huge divots and at least two with holes in them! On a side note, a couple of years after the cam and lifter job, I started working at the GM Diesel Equipment Division plant in Wyoming, MI. as a lifter finish grinder operator. Worked for that plant until 1981, then moved to a sister plant that built throttle body, and “Multec” multi point fuel injectors, later turned into a Rochester Products, AC Rochester, then finally a Delphi plant. I became a Journeyman Electrician in ‘96 and worked until it closed in 2006.
In college (early ‘80s) had a ‘67 Olds Delta 88 with the 425 4bbl. My best friend had a Triumph Spitfire. I used to tow him home from all over town, as one does when their friend owns a British ‘70’s sports car…It wrecked the transmission. I remember having to pay $425 to have it rebuilt. ❤
My first car was a '66! Beautiful boat!
$425 , is that how much a transmission rebuilt cost in the mid 80s , Basically WOW. Thanks
The Vega is such a great looking car. It's very unfortunate that a bad engine and rust has made them nearly impossible to find. Especially in any condition that would be worth investing any time and money into.
The mid-70s big bumper cars can be made to look better with some modifications. Putting the early style bumpers on helps a lot with the appearance
I still want that Hugger Orange Vega GT!!! Drop a 327 in it and go!
Agreed that the original chrome bumper Vegas are very attractive little cars. My parents had a 72, I remember sleeping/laying down in the hatchback on the way home from weekend trips to my aunts, and looking up at the stars through the glass. I think they had it for four years and then moved on.
Really enjoy your porch chats Adam! Well done and I always learn great information from your channel! Well done!
@RareClassicCars - Adam, Regarding the GM Turbo200 tranny, I bought a 1979 Olds Cutlass Cruiser from my parent's next door neighbors when it was about 4 or 5 years old. It was equipped with an Olds 260 V8 and what I presume was a turbo 200 in it.
The first thing I did was to stick a trailer hitch on it and used it on occasion to pull my parent's 3,000 lb motorboat. I was hard on the car, and constantly had it on the floorboards to get up to speed, as the 260 was not very powerful.
I owned the car for 5 or 6 years and replaced it in 1990 with my first brand new car - a Mazda MX6 5-speed (loved that car!).
I guess I was lucky, but I never had any problems whatsoever with that transmission, or the engine for that matter. I always wished it had the larger 307 Olds V8 in it, but it served me well.😉😎
If you can find a MINT Vega, buy it. Especially if it has Cosworth engine. Put sleeves in it. I was a great looking car that the bean counters ruined. Cadillac hasn't made a good engine since they discontinued the 472/500. Lean Burn WAS a crappy system. Take it off for a driver car. The car itself is fine. Early 80's GM computer carb and fuel injected were pretty bad in the beginning. 200R4 ended up being OK once they beefed it up for the Turbo Buick Regal. Stay away from FMX and Warner automatics. Not because they were bad, but because parts are hard to get. The others have aftermarket race parts to beef them up and rebuild. In the end, buy what you like and buy the BEST example you can find.
The Vega is the first one I am going to buy, I had nothing but good luck with mine, 74 and 76 and no they didn't rust that bad. They used to do 40 MPG on a long trip and I enjoyed that part. How many cars today can match that. I never had any overheating troubles but then I'm a mechanic by trade so I have enough sense to check things over once in a while compared to the average drivers who are mostly idiots and just drive as long as they start.
I hate to disagree with you (sorry) on the Vega, throw in a SBC with a stick or auto, update the suspension a bit and it's a fun car to drive around Palos Verdes Hills. Small bumpers only....... lol
I believe he is saying stock only.
@@Olds_Pwr What fun in a stock Vega. 😔
Really?
You just stated everything that Chevy should have done in the first place. It would still rust, though. 😜
@@justinweidenbach3699 We used "Eastwood Internal Frame Coating" YEARS back for the doors, rockers, tailgate and anywhere else we could spray. The stuff works great.....
74 Vega had a built in a sensor
to kill the engine when the oil burned off so much that it was inadequate. My mom carried around a case of Quaker State in the back of hers. With a 40 mile round trip commute, oil had to be added daily. You’re right, the styling was ok, but the engine was crap.
Hello Adam. 16:41 the Adam Shaaf player piano built in 1921 here has more vaccum lines. Ha Ha..
my folks bought it in Indiana in 1966..it originally had Lead hollow vacuum tubing.
So oddly the 1921 beast with lead vacuum tubing got rubber tubing in 1966 and they dry rot quicker.
The century old beast has a close loop pneumatic vacuum servo system to keep the player roll centered on the vacuum key sense bar.
I love 60s-70s Japanese cars but man they are very hard to own in America. To even get the slightest chance of finding parts you had to get lucky on Japanese auction websites for simple maintenance and body parts. In the US they were thought disposable when new and are long gone for the most part
I had a mid 80s Civic hatchback in the late 90s, early 2000s. When I bought it, the carburetor was bad, so I bought a new one and installed it myself at 18 years old. Surprisingly it worked perfectly and I never had any problems with it afterwards
I have a 87 Fleetwood with a 4100. Smoothest running car I ever had. Drove it for 4 years. Topped off the rad. Forgot to put the cap back on. 😢. Overheated it on the highway. Poured water in until it quit boiling out. I drove it to work after that for a few weeks but I think I burnt a valve. Runs rough. No white smoke. I think the head gasket problem was solved by 87.
Great video! One engine i would avoid is the Chevrolet 400ci small block. Not to be confused with the excellent big block 402, which Chevy sometimes called a 400. The 400 sb had siamesed cylinder bores which cause thermal issues. My grandfather had a GMC with this engine and it lasted about 80,000 miles.
I never liked the siamesed cylinder bores. I think the Mopar 400 had them also.
Two gems I've had the privilege of driving
1. 1979 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme coupe with the 1979 only 260 Diesel V8.
2. 1976 Buick LeSabre coupe with a 231 V6.
Indeed the Vega was a looker. Very Camaro-like. A machinist told me, "back in the day", that the engines were good if the cylinders were bored out and lined with iron liners. True? Who knows. But I can appreciate a small, simple car - especially pre-battering-ram bumpers (1973). Honda was a little "late to the party" with fuel injection. I recall seeing the 2nd gen Prelude at a car show and remarking to the sales person about carburation instead of injection. He had some song and dance about why it was the better choice. They weren't bad when they were new, but now? No.
The TH200 was certainly glass. Our 1984 DeVille (beautiful car, btw the way) had the transmission fail 3 years in. Suprisingly, we never had an issue with the HT4100.
Glad to hear you give AMC engines some love. AMC had their of & on build quality issues but their engines were consistently reliable. Our ‘65 Ambassador 990H had a 327 4-bbl that was very quick and torquey off the line. Would get a little out of breath at around 80 mph but my parents never had any issues with it. We lived in Michigan at the time, and like pretty much all cars of the era, would start rusting after a couple of winters.
Adam, Can I just say I WANT YOUR HAIR. Thank You 😅
Hey, if you do get an old Vega you'll probably have the only one at the classic car meet. 🤣
I bought a Vega new back in the day and everything you said about them is right on the mark. I traded mine in on a 225 slant 6 Plymouth Duster after only 1 year due to the problems my Vega had. Unlike the Vega that Duster was so reliable it wouldn't surprise me if it was still running.
sounds like a beautiful day there, HERE: IN YUMA, Arizona, it's ALREADY 104F., supposed to get to 111F. We've got about 10 more days, until the temp drops to UNDER 100 , for the high!!!!!!!!
I'm in Phoenix, same thing here. It's sad when you are excited that the temp is going to be 'only' 100!
Not a good time to be running around town in your Chevy Vega 😎
@@willjay916 Is there ever?
You know, for all the issues of the 4100, there sure seem to be a lot of survivors. I can't count the number of times I'm routinely tempted by those early 80s 4.1 Cadillacs, especially Eldorados. Trying to stay strong and hoping to find a 1980 or earlier car in my local area!
the minute you said 1980"s carbureted Honda, I knew exactly where it was headed.
I always love porch chat. I never had any of your no-gos, but the list makes sense. Your go to list is good, but I'd cut it off at '71.
Great video Adam! I have to disagree with the Vega as I grew up around these cars and I would snatch pretty much any one of them in great condition that said,the cosworth is a hit in any book and like you said the 76 and 77 as well honestly I’m partial to the 74’s. And of course I agree with almost any gm full size car.
Flat cam - 1972 Opel 1900 engine, 78K miles, one owner, well maintained car.
Flat cam or bent rod - 1970 Chev 350 100K miles, we didn't bother to find out
Seized A/C compressor - 1970 Chev 40K
Spun bearing - 1990 Chev 350 50K
GM... not really feeling it.
Friends Dad had a 1970s gm pickup truck with v8..the crankshaft broke at 23k miles. Fatigue failure.
avoid 1975-79 carbureted cars plus catalytic converters
UNLESS your putting a crate engine in a closet classic like a Dodge Miracle with fuel injection 👍 That would be awesome!
Along with my x car, fiero, and fwd cadillacs I have several hondas, 83 civic, 85 accord, 87crx, etc and you are so correct on the carbureted hondas. When it all works they drive nice but even one small vacuum leak in that labyrinth of hoses and Katie bar the door. Two of my carb'd still work but I can see a future with webers in it. Also watch for rust. Late 70s to late 80s hondas rust very very badly so inspect them super close before buying one. I have had head gasket issues with some of them too. Open deck block design
I want to add, if you're into the smaller cars and especially GM, you can't go wrong with a second gen 2.2l J car (cavalier/sunturkey) especially with a 5spd! The 2.2l is bulletproof, the platform itself is fairly rugged and easy to work on, the interior noises like door handles, locks and hinges are absolutely hilarious (I mean that in a good way!). These cars were a class of their own, nothing compared to the physical experience of an old perfectly running and driving J car
Had a 74 Vega 3 speed. I'd buy another one if I could.
Had to laugh at the Honda vacuum diagram! I believe the Civic was just about the last car sold in America with carburetor. Or maybe it was the Yugo.
Mazda pickup
Haha. My mom had a '73 Vega. It was a complete piece of crap. No power steering, slow as hell, very basic. By 1981 the engine started burning huge amounts of oil and we junked it. I'm honestly surprised it lasted that long since my sister and I abused the hell out of it.
The Chevy Vega is sooo attractive to me. A sexy mini-camaro. Too bad it's so s***ty
#3 Lean Burn... You aren't kidding.. . I use a highway with an overpass at an intersection. I would be on the highway for several minutes on the throttle, then still under light pressure on the gas pedal so the closed throttle sensor wasn't yet engaged, coast to the light going uphill, and if it turned green upon approach, the advanced timing would sling shot the 5th Ave I used to drive. The 2.2 gears didn't seem to mind.
Never knew what RTV stands for!!
I do enjoy your porch chats. 👍🙂
"THERMOQUAD! It’s the only carburetor that punishes you for going to wide-open throttle" - David Freiburger/Mike Finnegan....Roadkill episode when driving a 440 V8 equipped motorhome.....The first year Dakota has a similar setup to the lean burn system....but with a 2bll Holley 6280 feedback carb and a computer mounted on the right fender apron. Challenging to tune as well..and for some reason they changed to TBI for the 1988 model year.
I had an 85 DeVille, the oil pump failed on my 4.1. I replaced it with the updated 4.5 oil pump. Other than being gutless, it was a smooth engine and overall I loved the car.
Edit: I also had an 83 Accord sedan, it would flood when parked at a curb. Upon restart it chugged for about 10 seconds. That didn't happen when parking in a lot.
My mother had a ‘84 DeVille that replaced her gem of a car, a ‘79 Seville (not diesel). The DeVille wasn’t a stop light king to put it mildly. Eventually she would buy a ‘93 DeVille with the 4.9L V8 which was a lot better. I bought the car from her in ‘97 and drove that car for two years until it had an unfortunate incident with a city bus (my fault, walked away).
I guess you beat the GM 5.7 Diesel drum long enough. Now as a transmission industry veteran, I don't agree w/the 200 metric being a road block to an other wise nice car a person may desire. Factor in $1000 for insurance on a repair, at a reputable rebuilder. The aftermarket makes it possible to have a very durable 200 behind the engine. NHRA Stock and Super Stock racers routinely run 500 hp + thru T-200s.
You mentioned the need for fuel additives in pre 1972 vehicles. I would like to hear more about that subject.
I knew someone that a 76 Impala with a 350. It was his work/business car so it had a lot of miles racked up on it in a years time. It had the problem with the soft camshaft.Failed on him in a little town in Pennsylvania.
Great video! That was very informative. To your list Adam I would add Fords and Mercurys with the 351C from 1972 and older. I have never had any major engine problems. But then the car has an old Holley 4 bbl and a no points distributor, plus in my state they don't emission test old cars so perhaps that is why I have not had major engine problems. The only possible wierd thing is the 351C uses a special thermostat which is difficult to find. Using an over the counter typical thermostat can result in engine overheating in hot weather.
Remember the Vegas with 454 stuffed under the hood? Everyone wanted high power to weight ratios
I liked the small block Fords, Chevys, AMC, and of course Chrysler’s. The big block GMs and Fords and Chryslers were outstanding.
Many of us think of Shannon "The Hockey Guy" Skanes, when we see a whiteboard.
1974 Vega- 50k miles…head blew…done…definitely #1 in my book
Review 70 thru 74 Ventura Omega Apollo Nova with all available V 8 Engines with Automatics & Grenade box 4 on the floor stoplight to stoplight specials
One pair I'd add to the "don't" list is the '75-'76 US-spec 6 cylinder Granada and Monarch. At around 23 seconds to 60, they are, as far as I know, the slowest American cars of the 1970s. Of course, I'm sure they can be tweaked, but in their original form, they are not for the impatient.
Fuel injected Hondas in the 80s were awesome but I have no idea how hard they are to maintain today.
I think the early Vegas had great styling especially the Kamback. Unfortunately, they were junk. GM could have nailed the market with that car and significantly held back the Japanese invasion. Instead, they shot themselves in the head and permanently destroyed the American small car. Of course , the Pinto added to the demise. I ended up buying a 72 Duper Beetle. No regrets.
They repeated some of the same mistakes with the FWD X-Cars. Had they not cost-cut component quality control, GM would have held off the Japanese for a little while longer. Even today, the X-car packaging is incredible.
Hey Adam, great content on this video. You missed your true calling as an engineer for any of the big 3! As a 24 year Honda Alliston procurement guy, Keihin is pronounced K-hen.
Like your videos! Vega original motor also had leaking valve stem seals . Nothing putting in a 305 V8 wouldn’t fix. But could you also put the Porsche 911 on your bad list so I can afford to buy a used one?
You, can find the original Chevrolet Vega commercial on RUclips. It, boasts about the specific aluminum cylinder wall compound, being stronger and more durable, than cast iron.😃
The dozen plus Vegas owners I knew in the Midwest in 1970s all loved them but *all* never owned them say after 1977. Lol.
Two different friends parents owned a total of 7 of them and both owned them and discarded them like in a year.
So today they say they were so great! :)
In the mid 1980s in Ventura California gobs of clunker Vegas and Pintos were used on the Ventura circle ? track racing and demo debry stuff since cheap and zero following as collector cars.
The funny thing is I remember you would see a smoke trail in the mid 1970s like some weird 2 cycle car and finally up ahead there would be a Vega smoking like mad.
A girlfriend in 1978 had this great Pinto. I tuned it all up. Changed the oil etc. Then she traded it in on a stupid Vega and had to pay extra to get it. The darn thing smoked like mad so a totally a bad buy. Ridiculous.
I the local cruising the coast event you about never see any Vegas or Pintos. But today I saw on regular roads a AMC Gremlin and 2 Pacers while going to buy groceries
The Vega engine was great but not good for any abuse of overheating. Then the silicon exposed on the Aluminum cylinder bores got ruined. So you have thus weird bimodal love or hate of Vegas. Lol
At one place in Southern California I worked at we had 2000 employees in 1979. There were folks with Pintos but no Vegas at all. There were about 4 to 5 folks with Metropolitan Nashes.
All the few 6 Volt car folks parked in one area on rare cold days since it was easier to get your car jumped off.
Thank you Adam.
I had an 85 Honda wagon carbureted. It worked great the whole time I owned it. But yeah, nobody would touch that carburetor and even less so now. Incredibly complex.
So far I agree with your list. There was the Cosworth Vega which was decent. I'd add, unfortunately the 82 Trans Am on the list. Mechanical dog, but a beaut to look at. I had it in stick. Horrible transmission, 305 had a flat cam issue.
GM could have taken the Opel engine and been without problem. Why did they act so stupid? The Opel Sport Coupe and Vega cars even look similar.
Agreed…not sure why they didn’t use the Opel power train. My aunt still has a ‘75 Opel wagon with the Bosch mechanical fuel injection that sadly hasn’t moved from her garage in 40 years. One of these days I will get it running.
I liked the Vega but it didn’t last well. They really did rust badly.
I would love to have clean 72 Vega and swap a supercharged 3800 into it.
Saw a video of a guy with a turbo V6 Chevette. It looked like a riot to drive.
Driving an engine nonstop for countless miles proves nothing. Drive it like a housewife. Get in on a cold morning, crank it then floor it, then stop n go traffic etc...
Every Mopar Lean Burn engine equipped car I've ever known got absolutely phenomenal gas mileage..... Usually because it was sitting in a driveway or outside a shop door not running.
Hey Adam! I know you did a video on this car(was the first one I saw you do)can you do a video on the 1962 dodge darts and Plymouth belvederes? I know most think they are ugly but I don’t. Would really love to see you do a video on them.
I like how Oldsmobile came up with an aluminum 3.5 V8 in 1962 so good it was used in Land Rovers and Jaguars for decades and then 10 years later it apparently became lost technology.
Anyway, LS swap.
My father picked up an 85 Cadillac Sedan de Ville with 31,000 miles on it. It blew the engine. Twice. Junk.
Those early Lean Burn units can be undone to make 1977-ish Mopar products viable.
Adam, Greetings from Toronto 🙏 I recently saw an 8-6-4 updated with the cylinder deactivation disabled, dual exhausts, wide tires, and some form of stiffer suspension. The body was beautifully straight, and the interior original (via the owner's spiel to me). It looked 80-90% stock. What would you think of something like that 🤔?
🖖🙏
The wiring harness had problems even in '77'. Wires were run under the carpet right where your left foot is at.
Do these 1970's era engines need updating for today's gasoline with ethanol?
10:45 Didn't the Cadillac versions of the '85 C-body cars have some kind of electrically-activated ferrofluid clutch instead of the usual lockup clutch? It always sounded like an interesting feature, but I have no idea how well it worked or how long it was made.
I would love to have a mint 1975 Vega.
All these calls to drop SBC in a Vega. Doesn't that make the car nose-heavy as hell and a cramped installation?
If I had to change out that aluminum 140, I'd replace it with a longitude-mount 60-degree Chevy V6 like the ones used in the S-10 pickups.
I wonder how many B-O-P 215 aluminum blocks have been put in Vegas?
@@sergioleone3583 A lot! The 231 V6 was also swapped into Vegas pretty frequently.
Are there any Vegas left? I haven't seen one in decades. I do see a Corvair every now and then. I had an 81 Honda Accord with a 3bbl carb on it and it HATED ethanol fuel. It would vapor lock every time I put that gas in it. I spent a lot of money at the Honda dealer trying to fix the stalling issue with hot and parked for a few minutes and I changed the gas and the problem went away.
Ill take a vega, and build it myself
Hi. I've always enjoyed your work.
I have a question. I owned a Chevy Cobalt SS. So, the engine is 260hp with 260 ft pounds. Can I through one in like say a 72 Cadillac? Well more like replace the 1976 170hp 500ci?
I'm thinking that the 5000 pounds might trash it.
Not really. You could, but it wouldn’t be advantageous. Better to go with a modern small block.
Thanks for not including the V-8-6-4.
Can add to don’t buy: odd fire Buick V6. Do buy list - any pre 75 domestic pass car I6.
If you're not mechanically inclined and/or don't have a lot of time and money to invest in a car. I wouldn't buy anything built after they started putting electronic controls on the engine. Unless you don't mind to make modifications to eliminate the problem parts like electronic carburetors and things like that. Depending on where you live, the amount of modifications you can make vary
I love a car with oil pump issues.
I think there's a different easy to look at these flawed classics now, decades on. If they were prone to rust, and still survive today without significant rust, for example, they're worth keeping. Most engines can be repaired or replaced. Upgrade that TH 200 to a TH 350. Doing what you have to in order to keep a flawed classic functional is the American way!