I need to skip a day or two with methylfolate because if I took it every day... along with my methylcobalamin (MTRR mutation) and my B6 (peroxyl -5- phosphate), I would find myself moody, cranky and sometimes to point of total anger hour later and for no reason. So, I find by taking half of methylfolate every 2 days works well for me.
I believe it has to do with folate increasing acetylcholine. Folate is metabolically bound to choline and is involved in the synthesis and release of acetylcholine - clinical studies suggest that increases in central acetylcholine could lead to depressed mood. I personally struggled with this for a long time until I read about this.
You could look into natural acetylcholine inhibitors. I haven't exactly found a solution either, I just make sure to take breaks to reset when supplementing with folate.
I think a lot of people confuse depression and anxiety…anxious people need more „depression“ and depressed people need more sympathetic activity, therefore less Acetylcholine.
Oh wow! I noticed that eggs were making me feel worse, and cut them out. I've got Major Depressive Disorder, and have been sleeping so excessively the past 9 months, that I can barely do survival stuff, let alone enjoy life or do anything fun. I think my methylfolate supplement has been the cause.
Choline deficiency also plays a role - I couldn’t take methylfolate until I optimized choline stores. I used to be vegan for roughly a year. I’m still reversing the biochemical deficiencies it caused, especially with regard to methyl donors that only come from animal sources. I feel like a kid in a candy store now. Just happy I seemingly solved the puzzle to my methylation pathways.
@@GygaxGirl They didn’t. Just super agitated and paranoid. Until I removed a bulk of bromide from my system, optimized B6 + B12 I couldn’t touch methylfolate.
A lot of people are blaming methyl-folate, but we're told to take it with B-12, and for me I found the problem wasn't actually methyl-folate but B-12 itself. When I shrunk the dose of B-12 to 1/4 my normal dose (1000mcg to 250mcg) I felt soooo much better. And then because I stopped blaming methyl-folate for the anxiety, I then raised my methy-folate from 800mcg to 1600mcg and I feel absolutely perfect at this ratio. Anyone taking B-12 with folate and getting anxiety... try dropping your B-12 dose just as a test.
I think this was the case for me too when i took high dose b12 WITH folate, because when i take b12 on its own i dont get the Side effects, on the other hand i got a brand new b12 today not from the same company and i get foggy but it also helps with My depression, just weird
A Similar thing happened to me. I started Taking TMG to counteract the Niacin I was taking and felt awful! Even after removing the Niacin and just taking TMG which everyone says is amazing for you, I was constantly spaced out and couldn't concentrate to save my life. I couldn't find any reviews or studies talking about this issue.
Folate is a serotonin reuptake promoter, so people with low serotonin will often get even lower serotonin and get very depressed. So beware if you have depression about taking folate.
@@TheJimmyswe150 don’t listen to them, methyl folate is needed it’s the natural form. I don’t see how people are complaining about being under stimulated by taking folate!!! Why is it a bad thing?? I had terrible adrenaline rushes when I stood up and it developed in to heart issues and since taking folate + B12 within the first 3 days my cold hands and feet fixed up and my anxiety went away with my bad heart flutters and racing tachycardia. Believe me it’s how the body is meant to be, in a state of calm.
I still feel confused. I felt terrible (depressed, flat) taking methylcobalamin B12 but feel great taking a adenosylcobalamin and hydroxocobalamin combo. What does this mean? Should I avoid all methlyated supplements?
It means you should take the combo and not the methyl b12. Not clear if you mean that one makes you feel worse than no supplement and the other makes you feel much better than no supplement, or if you are simply comparing the two. If the former, you need the b12. As to not tolerating methyl donors see this video: open.substack.com/pub/chrismasterjohnphd/p/why-would-someone-not-tolerate-methyl?r=48eci&
It is possible you are a hyper- or over-methylator, and the mehyl groups attached to it are detrimental to your health (yes, if so, you should avoid such supplements)... There is even a small subset of people with an MTHFR gene mutation who actually OVER- methylate.
Why not drop the whole methyl form of b12, folate and move to the organ/foliage route? 1.) Two forkfuls of beef liver~2.5oz Or 3000mg of Undeffated dessicated beef liver capsules 2.) Organic b complex with folate derived from brussel sprouts/spinach
I am methyl sensetive. COMT H26N AND VAL MET and MTHFR c677t. My homocystine bounces.So too much folate and too little causes panic attacks. Seeking Health folinic w hydroxocobalamin works very well. Yet keto diets I foolishly ate carbs during Covid-19. Need to lose weight. If you the product you are pitching is methyl baser no go for me.
Chris Masterjohn, could you consider making a video or some type of resource available to help people understand what to do when they are inadvertently increasing Acetylcholine too much and reducing their mood/cognition? I personally suffer from this any time I increase choline/acetylcholine/methylation. Please tell us what we can do to be able to get our proper nutrients but not have acetylcholine overload that causes horrible moods and other symptoms. Thank you for your fantastic work
Thank you very much for the information you are offering! If my dietary intake from food is low, you would generally recommend 400-600mcg of methylfolate? And how much Methylcobalamin?
Folate(5mthf) works as serotonin usage inhibitor (feeling low in serotonin), and is steeling methyl groups. So it is used in overmethylators. And there is a need of glycine too as buffer system of methyl groups (for overmethylation). To normalize methylation. For undermethylation better form of Folates is THF, found in animal liver. It uses MTHFR gene, and this gene is turning off Glycine buffering system of methyls. So methyls can be used, and methylation speeds up. And animal liver contains plenty of B2 which needs MTHFR, B12, THF for methylation cycle. And B1 which acitivates Mg to "turn on" methylation cycle.
I'd love if you could do a segment on vit K2. just read your 2016 article about K2 supplements. I wondered if you've looked into this one: Pure Therapro Rx, VEGAN D3 + K2 Full Spectrum Drops. I am interested to know.
Anybody ever go the "power-through the symptoms" route? Undermethylater, currently on day 5 of taking Jarrow B-Right (B complex), 1x/day and the INCREASED fatigue and depressive symptoms have definitely worsened. Diet very much aligns with Chris' protocol. This is plan A: to just try to power through for 2 weeks. In 3 days or so if symptoms do not improve, I may try to space out/microdose creatine and glycine-rich food consumption throughout the day. Subject is an athlete...Wish us luck!
Yeah.. was just about to advise you not to do it xD b-right makes me feel like shit, today i was looking for someone to beat even though am a social calm guy. Had these anger bursts very often and Always traced it back to high cortisol and low dopamine (which i did have issues with) however, tried TMG and i feel amaaaxiinnngg and i’ve always frlt good on collagen and thats what lead me to this topic of methylation. Just ordered glycine and folinic acid to try it. Just stay away from any b-complex. Peace
@@mjdawd4846i was doing b-complex but my diet started providing way more than rdi on lots of things, now it's easier just to manage individual vitamin levels, feels way better
Definitely not on purpose. Might be a result of the finished audio being reincorporated into the video without the original muted. I'll have my video editor look into this.
@@chrismasterjohn Please do have your video editor fix this. Five years later your video is still helping people struggling with the hell of methylfolate problems. I just discovered you and your work.
@Jordan J I still can't tell if it's a good or bad thing. Strong good coffee and I feel productive for the day now, but I've cut back slightly on the B9. If I drink too much I still get the heart racing problem, but no head spinning or headaches.
I am Vegan and I was recommended to take b12 obligatory together with Folate (and only a stable form like 6s-mthf-glucosamin). Now if I take the folate every day together with b12, I get acne from the b12, so I plan to take folate every day and b12 1000 micrograms every second day. So is it okay to take Folate without b12?
Because folates are an impediment to Serotonin uptake which is produced much lower in undermethylators. For this reason, undermethylators tend to respond well to SSRI anti-depressants. You might want to add TMG's in there if you're an undermethylator. It gives you a big mood lift.
I like the analogy of adding a nitrous booster to a top heavy-minivan. Chances are, when you use it, it will make the car more unstable and difficult to handle. I suspect that I may have had a bad reaction to some methylfolate supplementation. I couldn't be sure, though. I am almost certain, though, that anti-depressants make me more emotionally unstable and prone to anger/irritability. The BS term, 'chemical imbalance', is/was a marketing gimmick to sell drugs to ease the difficulty of the human condition known as life. That's not saying that a drug can't be useful and helpful; but, that is not always, perhaps rarely, the intent of a drug profiteer. Some times things are exactly as they should be. Organism and environment is what it's all about. And, when you investigate the organism/environment deeply, there may not be clear distinctions between the two. Some times things are exactly as they should be. The perfect example is water. Water is the life giving force of the earth. No human can go more than 2 or 3 days with out it. But, no, western culture (I'm not knocking western culture entirely. Just pointing out an inherent flaw) couldn't be happy with that. Regular, clean, drinkable, water isn't good enough. We need water with electrolytes added, or vitamins, or PH modification. Sorry, you don't need vitamins in your water (unless you are malnourished). You don't need water with electrolytes in it (unless you are malnourished). And I'm not sure why you'd need water with a different PH than 7; but, people have made up reasons, I suppose. Water is plain old water, and it's done the job for billions of years on this planet. And, I suppose that's my point. Some times, things are as they should be and don't need to be improved. To, 'improve', upon water, is like reinventing to the wheel; yet, this culture some how only believes it is the wheel that shouldn't be reinvented. However, that won't stop some one from trying to make a buck by convincing you that your clean drinking water isn't good enough. And when they do convince you that your water needs vitamins, PH balance, or electrolytes, they will have made another buck. No, I don't have the cure for chronic melancholy, dysphoria, or anhedonia. I wish I did; but, I do know, that, rarely are such things caused by, a "chemical imbalance". That's like saying a tornado that has laid waste to a town was caused by angry gods or bad spirits, or sins (sins by the by, are something you used to be able to buy forgiveness for; from, at the time, highly respected priests). Environment and organism is where it's at (and as simple as that is, that's what makes it so complicated. The human environment, can be, complex, to say the least; the same goes for the human organism). Foreign chemicals can create chemical imbalances. And specifically, drugs, of any kind, can cause chemical imbalances. They have reversed it though; because, they are trying to sell you something. They want you to buy water at 20x the price you could pay for it out the tap; and, you, the consumer, are vulnerable. You are vulnerable because no human alone could ever compile all the knowledge of the world into your head alone. And more simply put, the average human is not an MD. And even an honest MD will tell you when he/she does not know. There is a certain trust we place in our society, that is often necessary to get by. I fear that the vitamin people have turned into what they were trying to get away from. Now, instead of having a, 'chemical imbalance', do I have a MTHFR problem? It smells like the old, "your water isn't good enough", sales pitch, all over again. I think the psyche drugs and psyche institutions can be dangerous. I also think they have knowledge and tools that can help people. I think the same of the vitamin/supplement people. And I don't doubt for a second, that both groups are still trying to make a clever dollar. I have no doubt that there are good folks in both camps; but, I also have no doubt there are lots of folks in both camps who will take advantage of you to make a dollar.
Based on my own severe reaction to folate (which then made me completely intolerant to any methyl donor even in minuscule amounts) I would say it COMPLETELY messes with neurotransmitters, specifically the monoamine neurotransmitters and their metabolites. I highly suspect that a build-up of adrenaline and it's metabolites are what causes the severe side effects. Noradrenaline is a major methyl acceptor which turns it into adrenaline, hence why any methyl supplement can lead to this problem but folate is particularly bad for it because it increases the BH4 pathway with directly leads to more monoamine neurotransmitters and hence more metabolites. I have a normal COMT and a fast MAO and still reacted horrifically to folate. I really don't think methylfolate or even folinic acid should be sold in doses more than 50-100mcg without a prescription
It definitely involves neurotransmitters. Thank you for your thoughts. This is not a common reaction, despite being common enough for me to make a video about it, and I don’t think you should be generalizing your atypical reaction to laws placed on everyone else.
@@chrismasterjohn my comments regarding OTC folate dosages aren’t based on my experience alone, I’ve spoken to countless others who’ve experienced a similar reaction and read of many more who I haven’t directly corresponded with. I have no doubt that for people who really can’t process folate or who lack other cofactors may really benefit from folate. But trigger-happy functional practitioners and the current dosages of readily available folate are a potentially dangerous combination for those who are not aware of the potential side effects. It is not dissimilar to that seen in SSRI or MAOI inhibitor syndromes. Perhaps over time these serious reactions will become more widely recognised and a little more caution with folate can be exercised (and methylation supplements in general).
Thanks, great video! And thanks for referencing your other video. I'll have to watch that one too. Right now I'm going to go click on the link you provided to order that supplement. Hopefully that does the trick because something has to. Then another time soon I'll order your cheat sheet. I couldn't wait to get it since hearing about it on the Ben Greenfield show. I was trying to order it the other day, but had a glitch in my system in the middle of my order :-)
Hypothetical for you, Chris... What if you take betaine (trimethylglycine) and keep escalating the dose until homocysteine drops to undetectable levels? Presume that this hypothetical person is supplementing with nutritional yeast, and thus getting the minimum RDA of all the B vitamins (albeit, in the "standard" forms, not pre-activated or coenzyme forms) and they're getting adequate protein, glycine, and choline.
@@chrismasterjohn Right, I see... On your methylation page, you express some reservations about supplementing with SAMe. So, I kinda wondered if "supraphysiological" (i.e. pharmacological, 6-20 gram) doses of betaine/TMG could produce the alleged benefits of SAMe by increasing its endogenous production.
Also, also... I wanted to say, thanks for always getting back to me. We don't always agree on everything, but that's okay with me. I'm happy to learn more from a PhD! I like that you give primacy to the scientific evidence, rather than try to contort the evidence to fit an ideology, a la vegan, keto, etc. _And_ in spite of your hard science focus, you're not a jerkweed about it! :D You always seem willing to meet everyone halfway. The skepticism and empathy is a refreshing combination.
Thank you so much I’m going to try ritual I don’t know how I will do I have always acted really poorly and that’s a pretty high dose for the prenatal but like you said if you can power through it and I have been told this as well I did it ends up being better
How’d it go for you? I tried Ritual recently and the first 2 days was extremely irritable and impulsive, day 3 felt paranoid and suicidal. Not like me AT ALL. So I stopped. And that’s only at one capsule instead of two… did you get over the hump and feel better?
@@jk897 wow I’m not sure. They did have a quality issue there for awhile and I’ve also gone up in price I did not notice any benefit from them honestly I do take seeking health I find that really good
Hi Chris, Excellent info. I am having an extreme reaction to folate. Very ampy hyper feeling. Can't sleep at all. Realizing I will have to slowly titrate up and start at 25 mcg , 1 drop. I am an OVERmethylator confirmed by bloodwork and symptoms. I tried to order the liquid methylfolate on seeking health but it says "page not found". They only sell capsules. Do you know where i can get the liquid form? ? Thanks, Diana
"Methylfolate is the off-switch for wasting methyl groups by methylating glycine and peeing it into the urine." Please explain more fully. What does this mean?
See chrismasterjohnphd.com/methylation and especially the long-form podcasts linked therein. I probably go into the most detail in "Methylate your way to mental health with dopamine" if I remember right.
I need to skip a day or two with methylfolate because if I took it every day... along with my methylcobalamin (MTRR mutation) and my B6 (peroxyl -5- phosphate), I would find myself moody, cranky and sometimes to point of total anger hour later and for no reason. So, I find by taking half of methylfolate every 2 days works well for me.
Same !!!!!
I believe it has to do with folate increasing acetylcholine. Folate is metabolically bound to choline and is involved in the synthesis and release of acetylcholine - clinical studies suggest that increases in central acetylcholine could lead to depressed mood. I personally struggled with this for a long time until I read about this.
And what was the solution? I become very depressed even on 50 mg, same thing with other methyldonors(like creatine or any choline)
You could look into natural acetylcholine inhibitors. I haven't exactly found a solution either, I just make sure to take breaks to reset when supplementing with folate.
I think a lot of people confuse depression and anxiety…anxious people need more „depression“ and depressed people need more sympathetic activity, therefore less Acetylcholine.
@@СергейИльин-ц1н have you noticed that when you eat hi Colleen foods such as eggs, you get depressed or irritable?
Oh wow! I noticed that eggs were making me feel worse, and cut them out. I've got Major Depressive Disorder, and have been sleeping so excessively the past 9 months, that I can barely do survival stuff, let alone enjoy life or do anything fun. I think my methylfolate supplement has been the cause.
Choline deficiency also plays a role - I couldn’t take methylfolate until I optimized choline stores. I used to be vegan for roughly a year. I’m still reversing the biochemical deficiencies it caused, especially with regard to methyl donors that only come from animal sources.
I feel like a kid in a candy store now. Just happy I seemingly solved the puzzle to my methylation pathways.
How are you today?
Are you a slow COMT person? Did methyls make you feel manic?
@@GygaxGirl They didn’t. Just super agitated and paranoid.
Until I removed a bulk of bromide from my system, optimized B6 + B12 I couldn’t touch methylfolate.
@Lake A. do you take B Minus or some other brand od b's?
@@GygaxGirl Right now I’m taking Homocystrol + TMG
A lot of people are blaming methyl-folate, but we're told to take it with B-12, and for me I found the problem wasn't actually methyl-folate but B-12 itself. When I shrunk the dose of B-12 to 1/4 my normal dose (1000mcg to 250mcg) I felt soooo much better. And then because I stopped blaming methyl-folate for the anxiety, I then raised my methy-folate from 800mcg to 1600mcg and I feel absolutely perfect at this ratio. Anyone taking B-12 with folate and getting anxiety... try dropping your B-12 dose just as a test.
I think this was the case for me too when i took high dose b12 WITH folate, because when i take b12 on its own i dont get the Side effects, on the other hand i got a brand new b12 today not from the same company and i get foggy but it also helps with My depression, just weird
I think b12 increases adrenaline and therefore disrupte sleep and insulin/GABA pathways. Maybe it’s that.
I took methylfolate alone to test and still couldn't sleep. NAC does the same thing as does b12.
What form of B-12 were you taking?
So this dosage, is daily?
thanks so much. my doctor told me to start taking this and I've felt CRAZY for months and couldn't figure it out...
Me too. I'm going to power through
@@tigertalks1567 checking in to see how you went powering through the methly folate?!
A Similar thing happened to me. I started Taking TMG to counteract the Niacin I was taking and felt awful! Even after removing the Niacin and just taking TMG which everyone says is amazing for you, I was constantly spaced out and couldn't concentrate to save my life. I couldn't find any reviews or studies talking about this issue.
tmg makes my skin oily fast and i start getting acne, no idea how to take the amount i'm supposed to have with niacinamide
Thanks! First time I hear a good analysis; on what might be the problem when taking methylfolate and not tolerating it.
Also boosts glutathione which can cause side effects if you’re carrying a high toxic load
Folate is a serotonin reuptake promoter, so people with low serotonin will often get even lower serotonin and get very depressed. So beware if you have depression about taking folate.
madamoiselle Butterfly i get anxious and terrible intrusive thoughts !
Then why does it help with depression for some People? I dont get it
@@TheJimmyswe150 don’t listen to them, methyl folate is needed it’s the natural form. I don’t see how people are complaining about being under stimulated by taking folate!!!
Why is it a bad thing?? I had terrible adrenaline rushes when I stood up and it developed in to heart issues and since taking folate + B12 within the first 3 days my cold hands and feet fixed up and my anxiety went away with my bad heart flutters and racing tachycardia. Believe me it’s how the body is meant to be, in a state of calm.
@@Bait1official yeah i notice those effects too, i do however get Brain fog from jarrow formula b12/folate, like foggy head much like ssris give me
I took some methyl vitamin and it made me super angry. I noticed the same thing with Betaine HCL.
Betaine HCL makes me SO SLEEPY now. It didn’t have that affect on me 10 years ago…
Very good info, I'm glad I subscribed! Thank you Chris!
I still feel confused. I felt terrible (depressed, flat) taking methylcobalamin B12 but feel great taking a adenosylcobalamin and hydroxocobalamin combo. What does this mean? Should I avoid all methlyated supplements?
It means you should take the combo and not the methyl b12.
Not clear if you mean that one makes you feel worse than no supplement and the other makes you feel much better than no supplement, or if you are simply comparing the two.
If the former, you need the b12.
As to not tolerating methyl donors see this video:
open.substack.com/pub/chrismasterjohnphd/p/why-would-someone-not-tolerate-methyl?r=48eci&
It is possible you are a hyper- or over-methylator, and the mehyl groups attached to it are detrimental to your health (yes, if so, you should avoid such supplements)... There is even a small subset of people with an MTHFR gene mutation who actually OVER- methylate.
information : GREAT. sound quality of video: NOT so great. :)
I find Chris’s work incredibly refreshing
Why not drop the whole methyl form of b12, folate and move to the organ/foliage route?
1.) Two forkfuls of beef liver~2.5oz Or 3000mg of Undeffated dessicated beef liver capsules
2.) Organic b complex with folate derived from brussel sprouts/spinach
Horses for courses
I am methyl sensetive. COMT H26N AND VAL MET and MTHFR c677t. My homocystine bounces.So too much folate and too little causes panic attacks. Seeking Health folinic w hydroxocobalamin works very well. Yet keto diets I foolishly ate carbs during Covid-19. Need to lose weight. If you the product you are pitching is methyl baser no go for me.
Why not just take folic acid for a supplemental folate source and riboflavin for MTHFR support?
Chris Masterjohn, could you consider making a video or some type of resource available to help people understand what to do when they are inadvertently increasing Acetylcholine too much and reducing their mood/cognition? I personally suffer from this any time I increase choline/acetylcholine/methylation. Please tell us what we can do to be able to get our proper nutrients but not have acetylcholine overload that causes horrible moods and other symptoms.
Thank you for your fantastic work
Thank you very much for the information you are offering! If my dietary intake from food is low, you would generally recommend 400-600mcg of methylfolate? And how much Methylcobalamin?
See chrismasterjohnphd.com/methylation for dosing.
Folate(5mthf) works as serotonin usage inhibitor (feeling low in serotonin), and is steeling methyl groups. So it is used in overmethylators. And there is a need of glycine too as buffer system of methyl groups (for overmethylation).
To normalize methylation.
For undermethylation better form of Folates is THF, found in animal liver. It uses MTHFR gene, and this gene is turning off Glycine buffering system of methyls. So methyls can be used, and methylation speeds up.
And animal liver contains plenty of B2 which needs MTHFR, B12, THF for methylation cycle.
And B1 which acitivates Mg to "turn on" methylation cycle.
Why people come to someone's like CM's page to tell how it is. People come hear his view on how this stuff works, not yours mate.
I'd love if you could do a segment on vit K2. just read your 2016 article about K2 supplements. I wondered if you've looked into this one: Pure Therapro Rx, VEGAN D3 + K2 Full Spectrum Drops. I am interested to know.
Anybody ever go the "power-through the symptoms" route? Undermethylater, currently on day 5 of taking Jarrow B-Right (B complex), 1x/day and the INCREASED fatigue and depressive symptoms have definitely worsened. Diet very much aligns with Chris' protocol. This is plan A: to just try to power through for 2 weeks. In 3 days or so if symptoms do not improve, I may try to space out/microdose creatine and glycine-rich food consumption throughout the day. Subject is an athlete...Wish us luck!
Update: I don't recommend "powering through." I tried it for 4 weeks and still feel exhausted/depressed/etc. after taking the Jarrow B-Complex.
Yeah.. was just about to advise you not to do it xD b-right makes me feel like shit, today i was looking for someone to beat even though am a social calm guy. Had these anger bursts very often and Always traced it back to high cortisol and low dopamine (which i did have issues with) however, tried TMG and i feel amaaaxiinnngg and i’ve always frlt good on collagen and thats what lead me to this topic of methylation. Just ordered glycine and folinic acid to try it. Just stay away from any b-complex. Peace
@@mjdawd4846i was doing b-complex but my diet started providing way more than rdi on lots of things, now it's easier just to manage individual vitamin levels, feels way better
@@Polyester_Avalanche bro how you've been doing since then?
There is an echo! :O
Perhaps so that we turn op the volume, and do the analogy ;)
Yep.. I was wondering whether it was on purpose? Definitely annoying.
Definitely not on purpose. Might be a result of the finished audio being reincorporated into the video without the original muted. I'll have my video editor look into this.
@@chrismasterjohn Please do have your video editor fix this. Five years later your video is still helping people struggling with the hell of methylfolate problems. I just discovered you and your work.
I give b1 and b2 first for 2 days then add folate on day 3. It worked.
Makes me too mellow and I can't get a coffee buzz while taking it
@Jordan J I still can't tell if it's a good or bad thing. Strong good coffee and I feel productive for the day now, but I've cut back slightly on the B9. If I drink too much I still get the heart racing problem, but no head spinning or headaches.
@@Jay-bo1gs isnt folate depleting potassium?
It heavily accelerates stimulant tolerance in my experience as well
Great video Dr.Chris!Am compound heterozygous both mutations.Suffer from depression.Whats the dosage should i use for L-5 mthf?
See chrismasterjohnphd.com/methylation
I have strong depression mood for a day even after 25 mcg...
The audio was doubled for some reason. Kinda funny when you mentioned that analogy.
I am Vegan and I was recommended to take b12 obligatory together with Folate (and only a stable form like 6s-mthf-glucosamin). Now if I take the folate every day together with b12, I get acne from the b12, so I plan to take folate every day and b12 1000 micrograms every second day. So is it okay to take Folate without b12?
L carnosine is good for acne.
Specifically acne caused by B12? Because it causes acne for me too
Interesting. My ND just classified me as a “under methylater” and suggested b12 but I believe she said no folate? Any reason for this?
Read “Nutrient Power” by William J. Walsh
Any*
Because folates are an impediment to Serotonin uptake which is produced much lower in undermethylators. For this reason, undermethylators tend to respond well to SSRI anti-depressants. You might want to add TMG's in there if you're an undermethylator. It gives you a big mood lift.
@@kamilkashaf2766 TMG?
@@Rosalieburke Trimethylglycine
Couldn't find the link you mentioned about Seeking health liquid methylfolate.
I like the analogy of adding a nitrous booster to a top heavy-minivan. Chances are, when you use it, it will make the car more unstable and difficult to handle. I suspect that I may have had a bad reaction to some methylfolate supplementation. I couldn't be sure, though. I am almost certain, though, that anti-depressants make me more emotionally unstable and prone to anger/irritability.
The BS term, 'chemical imbalance', is/was a marketing gimmick to sell drugs to ease the difficulty of the human condition known as life. That's not saying that a drug can't be useful and helpful; but, that is not always, perhaps rarely, the intent of a drug profiteer. Some times things are exactly as they should be. Organism and environment is what it's all about. And, when you investigate the organism/environment deeply, there may not be clear distinctions between the two. Some times things are exactly as they should be.
The perfect example is water. Water is the life giving force of the earth. No human can go more than 2 or 3 days with out it. But, no, western culture (I'm not knocking western culture entirely. Just pointing out an inherent flaw) couldn't be happy with that. Regular, clean, drinkable, water isn't good enough. We need water with electrolytes added, or vitamins, or PH modification. Sorry, you don't need vitamins in your water (unless you are malnourished). You don't need water with electrolytes in it (unless you are malnourished). And I'm not sure why you'd need water with a different PH than 7; but, people have made up reasons, I suppose. Water is plain old water, and it's done the job for billions of years on this planet. And, I suppose that's my point. Some times, things are as they should be and don't need to be improved. To, 'improve', upon water, is like reinventing to the wheel; yet, this culture some how only believes it is the wheel that shouldn't be reinvented. However, that won't stop some one from trying to make a buck by convincing you that your clean drinking water isn't good enough. And when they do convince you that your water needs vitamins, PH balance, or electrolytes, they will have made another buck.
No, I don't have the cure for chronic melancholy, dysphoria, or anhedonia. I wish I did; but, I do know, that, rarely are such things caused by, a "chemical imbalance". That's like saying a tornado that has laid waste to a town was caused by angry gods or bad spirits, or sins (sins by the by, are something you used to be able to buy forgiveness for; from, at the time, highly respected priests). Environment and organism is where it's at (and as simple as that is, that's what makes it so complicated. The human environment, can be, complex, to say the least; the same goes for the human organism). Foreign chemicals can create chemical imbalances. And specifically, drugs, of any kind, can cause chemical imbalances. They have reversed it though; because, they are trying to sell you something. They want you to buy water at 20x the price you could pay for it out the tap; and, you, the consumer, are vulnerable. You are vulnerable because no human alone could ever compile all the knowledge of the world into your head alone. And more simply put, the average human is not an MD. And even an honest MD will tell you when he/she does not know. There is a certain trust we place in our society, that is often necessary to get by. I fear that the vitamin people have turned into what they were trying to get away from. Now, instead of having a, 'chemical imbalance', do I have a MTHFR problem?
It smells like the old, "your water isn't good enough", sales pitch, all over again. I think the psyche drugs and psyche institutions can be dangerous. I also think they have knowledge and tools that can help people. I think the same of the vitamin/supplement people. And I don't doubt for a second, that both groups are still trying to make a clever dollar. I have no doubt that there are good folks in both camps; but, I also have no doubt there are lots of folks in both camps who will take advantage of you to make a dollar.
Wth, this is comment?!
Holy 💩 dude. Get a hobby.
Did an AI chatbot write this comment because it sure smells like it.
Based on my own severe reaction to folate (which then made me completely intolerant to any methyl donor even in minuscule amounts) I would say it COMPLETELY messes with neurotransmitters, specifically the monoamine neurotransmitters and their metabolites. I highly suspect that a build-up of adrenaline and it's metabolites are what causes the severe side effects. Noradrenaline is a major methyl acceptor which turns it into adrenaline, hence why any methyl supplement can lead to this problem but folate is particularly bad for it because it increases the BH4 pathway with directly leads to more monoamine neurotransmitters and hence more metabolites. I have a normal COMT and a fast MAO and still reacted horrifically to folate. I really don't think methylfolate or even folinic acid should be sold in doses more than 50-100mcg without a prescription
It definitely involves neurotransmitters. Thank you for your thoughts.
This is not a common reaction, despite being common enough for me to make a video about it, and I don’t think you should be generalizing your atypical reaction to laws placed on everyone else.
@@chrismasterjohn my comments regarding OTC folate dosages aren’t based on my experience alone, I’ve spoken to countless others who’ve experienced a similar reaction and read of many more who I haven’t directly corresponded with. I have no doubt that for people who really can’t process folate or who lack other cofactors may really benefit from folate. But trigger-happy functional practitioners and the current dosages of readily available folate are a potentially dangerous combination for those who are not aware of the potential side effects. It is not dissimilar to that seen in SSRI or MAOI inhibitor syndromes. Perhaps over time these serious reactions will become more widely recognised and a little more caution with folate can be exercised (and methylation supplements in general).
Thanks, great video! And thanks for referencing your other video. I'll have to watch that one too. Right now I'm going to go click on the link you provided to order that supplement. Hopefully that does the trick because something has to.
Then another time soon I'll order your cheat sheet. I couldn't wait to get it since hearing about it on the Ben Greenfield show. I was trying to order it the other day, but had a glitch in my system in the middle of my order :-)
Very good analogy, so we can understand! Thank you!
Hypothetical for you, Chris... What if you take betaine (trimethylglycine) and keep escalating the dose until homocysteine drops to undetectable levels?
Presume that this hypothetical person is supplementing with nutritional yeast, and thus getting the minimum RDA of all the B vitamins (albeit, in the "standard" forms, not pre-activated or coenzyme forms) and they're getting adequate protein, glycine, and choline.
That's very unlikely to happen but I wouldn't deliberately bring homocysteine to zero.
@@chrismasterjohn Right, I see...
On your methylation page, you express some reservations about supplementing with SAMe. So, I kinda wondered if "supraphysiological" (i.e. pharmacological, 6-20 gram) doses of betaine/TMG could produce the alleged benefits of SAMe by increasing its endogenous production.
Also, also... I wanted to say, thanks for always getting back to me. We don't always agree on everything, but that's okay with me. I'm happy to learn more from a PhD! I like that you give primacy to the scientific evidence, rather than try to contort the evidence to fit an ideology, a la vegan, keto, etc. _And_ in spite of your hard science focus, you're not a jerkweed about it! :D You always seem willing to meet everyone halfway. The skepticism and empathy is a refreshing combination.
do a video on sam-e
What's the maximum of methodology? You should take daily?
Thanks for this video chris
Can't we just explained with a drop in dopamine levels and getting a reaction like in withdrawals symptoms.
Methylfolate makes me VERY angry. I am not an angry person.
Me too when too much of it. It sucks. Not me at all
@@_einodmilvado I can't seem to find the balance. Any methylfolate makes me irrationally angry.
Thank you so much I’m going to try ritual I don’t know how I will do I have always acted really poorly and that’s a pretty high dose for the prenatal but like you said if you can power through it and I have been told this as well I did it ends up being better
How’d it go for you? I tried Ritual recently and the first 2 days was extremely irritable and impulsive, day 3 felt paranoid and suicidal. Not like me AT ALL. So I stopped. And that’s only at one capsule instead of two… did you get over the hump and feel better?
@@jk897 wow I’m not sure. They did have a quality issue there for awhile and I’ve also gone up in price I did not notice any benefit from them honestly I do take seeking health I find that really good
Hi Chris, Excellent info. I am having an extreme reaction to folate. Very ampy hyper feeling. Can't sleep at all. Realizing I will have to slowly titrate up and start at 25 mcg , 1 drop. I am an OVERmethylator confirmed by bloodwork and symptoms. I tried to order the liquid methylfolate on seeking health but it says "page not found". They only sell capsules. Do you know where i can get the liquid form? ? Thanks, Diana
Did it work?
Is sam -e a safer methyl donor?
You sound just like my old doctors
from the past. They'd say "Try this."
"Methylfolate is the off-switch for wasting methyl groups by methylating glycine and peeing it into the urine." Please explain more fully. What does this mean?
Watch his previous videos on glycine or methylating dopamine. Both of these were really enlightening.
As far as I know I've watched them all, and unless I missed it, I heard him repeat this statement but not explain it.
See chrismasterjohnphd.com/methylation and especially the long-form podcasts linked therein. I probably go into the most detail in "Methylate your way to mental health with dopamine" if I remember right.
What about fulvic acid and humic acid
make me drunk like full of serotonin
There is an irritating constant echo in all of his videos. He actually pays someone to produce these videos with that defect.
Not a great advert for taurean mixing
I think this might be a problem with the video editing. I'll look into it. It's not Taurean's fault.
The video echos to much.
🙏
The voice has an echo.