The Shining - How Doctor Sleep Proves THIS Shining Theory
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- Опубликовано: 12 окт 2021
- I wanted to come back to The Shining after Doctor Sleep came out. Problem was that I messed one thing up in my original Shining video... and the anxiety produced by that mistake demotivated my return for 2 years. I have finally overcome that anxiety. Today, I wish to defend my original Shining video... and I will use the events of Doctor Sleep to support that defense.
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People have been pointing out that the graphic I use at 5:43 is causing some minor epileptic fits. I am dreadfully sorry. Thank you for telling me so I don't use it again (or if I use it, I do it conscientiously).
No fit for me!! I win
@max derrat hey dude, love your knowledge and ability to draw parallels from the entertainment in our everyday lives to theories, mythology, symbology etc.
I offer some advice, quit apologizing and trying to make everyone happy, trust your pure intuition. You can absorb these comments and keep them in mind for your next material. World is too juiced on emotions and reactions atm which alters clarity and thought. Just a thought though :) 👍🏽
Love every vid
There's no need to apologize for _Evangelion._
@@meeksthessj4 Being less apologetic is something I am working on also. A lot of us want to please everybody, an impossible feat by far.
@@djfunkgut You fail at punctuation, so you lose.
Here's a thought. Having a Red Book appear on the desk was a case of synchronicity.
Kubrick knew about Jung's Red Book and the set designer knew about the hotel Red Book but neither knew about the other.
Jung definitely believed in synchronicity.
By having it be a hotel red book instead of it actually being jungs red book, gives it enough ambiguity while justifying the subtle reference's placement in the shot. It would be too much of a coincidence to have the great mother painting and a "red book" in the same scene. Kubrick was too smart and chaps like you catch the rest of us up. Great video!
Meanwhile, I assume King would say "it's about a haunted house, a psychic kid, and ghosts. And then everything explodes in the end"
Said it better than I could
Absolutely. Even more so since the book was not yet published at the time. He didn’t have a real edition to put there. Making a prop? Sure, but ambiguity sounds more fitting.
@@st.edstatue2700 I’m sure King would, but I see The Shining as something separate of King’s work. Similar but very different.
I really liked Doctor Sleep. Like Blade Runner 2049, it’s a sequel that does it’s own thing but builds on its predecessor.
it's a book adaptation, not a sequel to the kubrik movie, that's why it "does it's own thing", the kubrik movie is objectively a bad adaptation, dr sleep is faithful to the books, that's why it kinda ignores the hugely famous movie
@@arthurlarrubia Didn’t the Overlook burn down at the end of The Shining? Did a fairly good recreation of Kubrik’s version of it. Shame Ready Player One did it first
@@TheBeird yeah, Jack manages to fight off the "darkness" just enough so he can set off the boiler room
@@arthurlarrubia it ignores the movie by using its musical cues, shot composition, plot points, cast and reworking the actual book's story to fit with its ending? Damn, bold move on their part
I was impressed by Doctor Sleep. I've never read the books, but I feel like I could tell the movie was following closer to that depiction. Incidentally, now I get to say we finally got a good version of Hocus Pocus--that movie sucked! Haha
Man, the red book being a regular item in hotels does not prove your theory is wrong. Knowing how Kubrick's attention to detail works it could have been easily a two way reference. Yes, the red books is there because is normal for hotels to have it but it could also be a direct hints towards Jung's red book.
I am not convinced the Kubrick knew about the red book let alone knew it's content. The book was more or less a kept secret by the Jung estate and only published in 2009. So if Kubrick read it in the 70s he would have done so with the explicit permission of C.G. Jung heirs.
I think more along the same lines, Sergio. I guess it's ultimately up to interpretation though.
Possibly. My point was that the actual physical book on the desk wasn't Jung's. It could be a reference, but there's no way of knowing.
Nah that’s reaching
@@theeiszeitmann928 Oh he definitely knew about the red book, probably not its content but who knows. Kubrick was obsessed with Jungian ideas, and it shows especially in movies like the Shining, Fullmetal Jacket and Eyes Wide Shut, who all have deep jungian themes and symbolism. One fun fact is that Kubrick and Jung even share the same birthdate, July 26 :)
But Danny became an alcoholic because it DULLED his innate psychic abilities, it didn't heighten them. On a surface level, Danny's character arch is that he overcomes his alcoholism and faces the fear of his Shining, embracing it instead of hiding it because he needs to help another who shines. Below the surface it's about alcoholism and Alcoholics Anonymous. One of the key tenants is that after you recover, you need to help another alcoholic to both straighten your sobriety and help them through your personal experience. I suspect Steven King used a lot of his own experiences struggling with alcoholism and getting sober as inspiration for Doctor Sleep.
U are correct.
Wrong. Amateur perspective
@@Vometbomb Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion man.
You basically described the surface level plot of the movie. Witch we all , already know. This video is about what's beyond that level ! A deeper psychology !
King was an Alcoholic at the time he wrote The Shining and he was still relatively young married man with at least one child (the book is dedicated to his son Joe) and you can see how that affects the book. While Doctor Sleep was written after he quit the booze and drugs and cone out the other end. It should be noted though the reason the books work is that King mark the history of alcoholism in the family from Jack's own father than Jack and then Danny. Kubrick of course didn't bother with having any mention of Jack's dad in his movie which is why Doctor Sleep feels largely more a sequel to the much better book.
Honestly if I were a director I'd really love the double meaning of a red book in a hotel. He might of even seen it as a synchronisicity lol. Like I can imagine him having everything ready to film, and then randomly finding out that hotels often have a red book. How could he not have resisted putting one on that desk then lol?
Funny, I was just looking up your videos on SOMA and needed an existential crisis, perfect timing lol. Your videos are highly underrated and always thoughtful, cheers from Canada dude.
Max, you putting out a correction is proof that you only want to share the absolute truth.
Don't let it get you down, people get things wrong, just the fact that you put up a response tells us you meant well to correct it.
Much love,
-DSH
Yeah. It’s mostly people like me, who always keep an open mind for a new shining theory. No one will be harmed by the making of shining theories. It’s still just a movie, even if a great one.
Frankly I'd argue that the 'Red Book' could be both a Jung reference AND a 'Hotel Management' set piece.
Kubrick would have probably found it a fun synchronicity.
I thought the same.
Are you sure that it wasn't a reference to the The Red Book, "OpenGL Programming Guide: The Official Guide to Learning OpenGL"?
We all know how Kubrick loved his transformation matrixes!
That explains so much
As someone that studied graphics programming this comment greatly satisfies me
(it was HLSL though because I was a heretical Direct3D user)
They're trashing our data. Hack the Gibson.
So...are these guys also time travelers? This movie begin filming in 1979.....I'm pretty suere there was no OpenGL
Say you're Canadian without saying you're Canadian.
Max: "at the July 4th party"
😆
yo bro i'm dying lol lmfao
and I say this with much love
Great video dude, the fact that The Shining can still generate this kind of analysis and debate over 40 years since its initial release is remarkable, I still find it as haunting and mesmerizing as I did when I first saw it over 30 years ago, a true masterpiece.
Groundskeeper Willie: "Boy, you read my thoughts! You have the SHINNING!"
Bart: "You mean Shining..."
Groundskeeper Willie: "SHHH! You wanna get SUED?!
The colective unconscious is mentioned "Evangelion images all over the place"
Nice
I found doctor sleep to be lacking in Kubrick’s signature clinical austerity, the film worked on the base level of competent directing (love mike Flannigan but he isn’t Kubrick, for better or worse) but was far more interesting in further deepening the theories and themes you presented in your video that lie in the original film. But as always incredibly thorough and astutely made points coming from you, great video. I love seeing your singular and very focused analysis of media, ie creating your own system of meaning to see art through. Very cool very informative thank you
Always happy to see your videos! I respect your efforts to correct or elaborate your previous entries. Keep up the good work!
Goodness... Such a well thought out and explained analysis... Gunna follow... Hope you have more
Dear Max, your Shining commentary and analysis here on RUclips are among the best I've watched. This effort of wanting to further elaborate on a theory after adding new external evidence is a testament to your intellectual honesty in my (non-red) book. Keep up the good work. ;-)
I really appreciate your content...especially the way that you present it. The way you talk about your thought process is very relatable. Your content has helped me deal with mine and my son's predicaments.
Fantastic video as always, keep it up!
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the hotel red book was intended as also being a reference to Jung's Red Book. Kubrick was really, super into Jung and he was also the kind of director that would blow miles of film to get a perfect scene. There's no way that a possible Jung reference would be an accident in one of his films.
I mean... the man hunted down an indigenous artist just to get the rights to use his painting of the Great Mother! Nothing was a coincidence in this movie.
Had the pleasure of finally sitting down to watch and soak in Doctor Sleep late last year and I remember finishing it feeling that Flanagan did a wonderful job at such a monumental task like that.
Anyway, great video as always, Max.
We are here because we never left. Excellent work.
fascinating ideas and approach. Thank you for this work.
Ohhhh Boi I was *excited* to see this in my sub feed, Max! Keep it up!
I never understood the horror of the shinning and thought all of the horror elements where random. But now it all makes sense and u can enjoy the film more with the information you've given. Thank you
Awesome as always. And way to be cognizant that people often watch the first few minutes and bail, and here you are just admitting a mistake at the beginning for their benefit. Good on you. Keep up the good work.
Wild that the theory about the Red Book came out 2 years ago, but I watched it 2 days ago.
Now this video drops.
Lol same
Such impressive deep work! Thank you for your perspective.
Not saying it will be easy to do, but you can forgive yourself for your mistake in the previous Shining video and any other future mistakes. What matters is you have the integrity to admit to being wrong and that is not only wonderful, but admirable as well. Your conquest for truth which is what distinguishes you from others, so far is unparalleled to many channels on this site in that they avoid it, never consider it, or are charmingly dishonest about it while using a webcam to 'show' themselves. As your viewers, we are glad and grateful to have such people like you, who aim for truth. So thanks, Max. We'll stay yellow
Thank you for such a sweet and diplomatic comment. I know you're absolutely right.
Just real quick Danny didn’t steal the single moms money, the girl he went home with had stolen that money from Danny and he took it back from her. Danny’s real sin was leaving the dead mom and her son because she had aspirated sometime during the night and died. He left the girls son to die of dehydration and hunger. On top of that the single mother’s neighbors near her apartment were used to the kid crying all the time so no one called the cops to come snd check because they were used to her son crying from neglect all the time. That scene disturbed me something fierce because he could have just called the authorities on his way out and at least saved the kid. Crazy scene, so much nuance packed into a scene they don’t discuss much in the movie at all.
Liber Novus may not be featured in the films, but Jung's ideas definitely are! Excellent theory, dude!
The 3/8" thick blue pages in the middle of The Red Book from the Dr. Sleep scene answer what / which red book. Happy hunting.
I needed to watch this video, thank you.
The Apollo astronauts got a realization of the Overview effect. The Overlook Hotel represents a doorway to the overview effect.
Thanks again Max!!
That's so fascinating!
And what if the red book is meant to be seen as a regular hotel book AND a direct reference to Jung (for keen eyes to see)?
Knowing that Kubrick was obsessed with details, it's possible.
The Red book is just a regular normal hotel Red book. But, our unconscious bleeds out seeing that normal Red book is Carl Jung's Red book.
Those last moments of young Danny and Wendy gave me a better ending for both than in the book, the haunting image of an old Wendy with her face full of flyes suddenly disapearing felt anticlimatic to me.
Two things that intrigued me about the story and the labyrinthian structure of the Overlook Hotel 1. When Wendy was talking to Jack about the winter weather, why were some chairs or furniture displaced?" 2. Was Jack always The Caretaker? I say that because of the Gold room bar scene, when he talked to Lloyd, and maybe as a bonus did Jack have the ability "to shine". That last one is slightly doubtful though.
I think we all shine but as we get older the light gets dimmer as we become stuck in roles, we swore we would not echo, in our society as our parents before us. When we have children we see that light vicariously through the light of our children once more and we realize we can make a choice to be a part of that light/life or become angry at our past memories, years spent to get to this point of existence that our children innocently remind us of as Jack did.
I cant believe its been 2 years since the first video. I can't believe the time has run away so fast
Dr sleep proves that S.king should never interfere film adaptations. İt could have been four times better than that
^ THIS.
Agreed
Thank you for sharing. I enjoyed the movie and now want to see it again.
The Overlook Hotel is the ultimate liminal space of the collective consciousness
I hope this video does you justice. Youre the man
Oh boy, was I waiting for this video
i read The Red Book after watching your original video, and I notice The Gold Room scene is very similar to one chapter in The Red Book. In the book, Jung was in a kitchen, talking to a cook about a religious book which everyone disapprove in his time. He felt everyone was looking down on him. Suddenly he found himself in a mental hospital where doctors declare he's insanity, then the best part--------- he suddenly found its not a doctor talking to him, but he was in a grand ball room on a boat, a gentlemen asked him if he needs a drink. Jung didn't find anything strange, he just goes with all the strangers. The way Jack felt trapped in the hotel and not getting alone with his family and find strangers in The Gold Room friendly, is very much like the Red Book.
I think it’s so far in the foreground, you are correct, sir. In an interview, Kubrick says, “I thought it was one of the most ingenious and exciting stories of the genre I had read. It seemed to strike an extraordinary balance between the psychological and the supernatural..,” which is a rather simple description for Jung. The Red Book, being a standard for the operation of hotels going back for a long time makes the hotel the reality-based place for Jung’s theories contained in his own Red Book. I’ve watched other videos on The Shining, and much of the shifting realities people attribute to one person being crazy, are more likely to being the collective unconscious of the hotel being a site of trauma and creating a hypnagogic state which they are constantly moving through. This explains why the furniture moves, they can all communicate psychically, the can feel past events. Some of videos put too much emphasis on things that don’t take into account the area the movie is taking place in or the fact that this was the 1970s. This is a holistic theory, including the whole site. Thank you for your series. As Jung would say, “mind and matter,” so with his Red Book being widely released after The Shining, it’s almost like these played off each other. The hotel and it’s famous book were bound in leather and became famously known for its hypnagogic state in The Shining, before his own book, thanks to his theories. Kubrick and Jung would love this.
The Shining is a masterpiece and so it can be analyzed multiple ways. I love the Jungian analysis as well as so many observations and theories ( not the Apollo stuff) that abound about this film. This film can be enjoyed and thought about from so many ways endlessly which is what great art does!
It is a great movie, but a horrible adaptation of the book.
In family life sciences we would refer to this concept as generational transmissions theory. As a neuroscientist myself I was fascinated by this concept - and breaking the transmissions of the archetype of my genetic consciousness…anger. My father was angry, his father was angry, and so on for generations. I made a conscious decision that my kids would never see the anger that I saw and the transmission ended with my offspring. It’s probably the single most valuable thing I learned in my undergraduate studies.
If it's genetic, what makes you think you can stop it with your behaviour modification?
@@duderama6750 anger is not biological
@@PunkProfess0r
Anger is a function of the brain.yes? I'm thinking that's biological.
@@duderama6750 everything is a function of the brain, that doesn’t make it a biological heritable trait.
@@PunkProfess0r
We are more a product of genetics than we are willing to admit. Does a cat teach her kittens to be angry? Anger is in our dna. It is biological.
Hey, I know those feels.
I watched that video and the follow-up, and I think even though there is an explaination for the Red Book, it is still a completely valid literary read of the text. My first college professor of psychology told me "Everything is multiply determined."
The Red Book is both a banal ledger and a peek into the collective unconscious.
Kubrick may have used the Red Book to actually mean both things. Jung & the hotel book. Chillax - another great video :)
Thank you!
Also, the “Red Book” from “The Shining” looks like the exact same edition of Jung’s “Red Book” I used when I was working on my Doctorate, the typeface while blurry is familiar, and that central section with the “art plates” (the shiny image paper for photographs) seems to be the same as I remember. So Kubrick may have indeed used Jung’s “Red Book” on set as a replacement for the “Hotel Red Book” on purpose for the double meaning. So you may have indeed been correct in your first evaluation.
I was late to watching ‘The Shining’ in my life, but when I did, I did find it to be very much worthy of the praise and discussion surrounding it. Having watched ‘Doctor Sleep’ a year later, I thought it was very much a worthy follow-up (funnily enough, based on the novel that Stephen King basically wrote out of spite for Kubrick rendition-as the word “adaptation” is a stretch to use)!
I bought the Red Book ... and just re-watched your video yesterday
Kubrick was complex enough to have played a visual pun with Jung's RED BOOK and the hotel "Red Book"
Most likely it would be a hotel red book in the shining but I'm sure it was put front and center in our view so people can make the connection to Jung's red book.
I have a question? The collective unconscious is meant to explain how we humans essentially work when we face different issues, but how is it supposed to help any ordinary people? What is the meaning of the collective unconscious? Maybe you’ve already explained it, but I’m just really shit at understanding things, would love to learn tho, because I find the discussion fascinating.
If the collective unconscious bleeds into reality it can help one understand this influence and better understand our own perspectives.
If you accept the theory that the collective unconscious exists, it's a neat way of explaining why human beings function the way that they do. It explains not only where our ideas come from, but the fact that we are also governed by those ideas. As Jung said, people don't have ideas; ideas have people. As for the meaning of the collective unconscious... if one can understand how it works (the patterns that lie within the CU; how/why it governs people), then you might unlock the secrets of life.
That painter, Norval Morrisseau is a CANADIAN First Nations artist. His grandson Kyle was one the missing children written of in a book by Tanya Talaga called, Seven Fallen Feathers: Racism, Death, and Hard Truths in a Northern City. The painting on the cover of the book is by his father Christian Morrisseau, who learned from his father. Kyle was also carrying the talent to paint before he was presumably murdered.
The "red book" represents both it would have been too on the nose if it was Jung's book
Great video! I love your theories involving silent hill, Jung and Stephen King!
The red book can be both the hotel red book and Jung’s Red Book at the same time. Plus, there wouldn’t have been a bound volume of Jung’s book available, either to Kubrick or to the characters in the story.
I can’t wait to see more videos this month.
You said yourself, "Don't let my viewpoint discourage you from attributing multiple different meanings to The Shining". I choose to believe the Red Book could be Jung and a hospitality guide at the same time.
The evangelion depiction of collective unconscious is amazing
Great video as always, but if I'm not mistaken, in the book it's noted that danny and jack use alcohol to dampen the shine within them, rather than use it for easier access to a state of consciousness more conducive for psychic phenomena.
Great video! But yeah that graphic at 5:43 gave me a headache 😂😂
For some reason watching this again after a couple of years and now that I'm coming back to this episode again as a parent... I feel like i just rewatched an entirely different video. Still agree with everything in here but it's just even more so uncanny
I don't see why it cant be both the hospitality book and the Yung work at the same time.
Best review well done Love it so much to take from it
Weird in the book it's um It, and a giant cosmic turtle. That's the reason for everything.
I have "The Red Book". It is my most important book. Jung also wrote seven journals called The Black Books. Quite expensive but very worth it.
Always love your videos man. They are dark but not so much so that they are scary and without purpose.
By the way, I too have aspergers/autism.
Well done
It may not have been Literally Jung’s Red Book in order for it to be METAPHORICALLY Jung’s Red Book.
i really feel like you were right tho, and it was a double meaning. kubrick is smart enough, he would have added it as the hotel reference but also a direct call to the jung red book.
Thank you
Really enjoyed this. You're the reason I'm saving up for a nice copy of Aion. I want to read it for myself and have it as a collectors item. I was into psycho analytics for a while but I hadn't known about those books o: guess I just never cared to really look lol
Also please watch Gurren Lagann!! Please...
Wow! That's so cool! BTW, if you want a pdf copy, e-mail me at maxderrat@yahoo.ca . I'll send it to you.
And Gurren Lagann is on my list of anime to get to. Stay tuned. :)
@@maxderrat yes absolutely! I'll send you an email right away :) thanks for replying
it didn't have to BE the jung red book for it to be a reference TO the jung red book. could be that kubrick just thought "hey, that's kinda serendipity... jung red book, hotel red book... i can use that coincidence to illustrate what i want to say."
I like the idea of Jack embodying the "negative father" archetype because it fits with Kubrick's description of Jack Nicholson as someone who "was already prepared to take on the role (of murderer) when he walked in that hotel" (paraphrased)
Mr. Kubrick was a fan of Jung, thus synchronicity. Would it not have been possible that he included the Red Book because he knew of Jung's manuscript and thought it too good to leave out? I think you were right all along and that Kubrick was aware of the Red Book. No proof, just a sneaking suspicion that I can't shake, though I am also willing to be wrong! Love your content. :) Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
More Shining BAYBEE!!!
Personally, I believe that most, of not all of Kubrick’s films might be about one thing. As Joker states in “Full Metal Jacket”, ‘I think I was trying to suggest something about the duality of man sir…..The duality of man, the Jungian thing sir’.
From 2001 on, that theme seemed to be present in all of his films, imo.
Great stuff as usual. I am confused only on the possibility of the book being a specific reference however, wasn't the Red Book only recently released?
Jung's Red Book *was* only released in 2009; however, as noted in the prior video from two years ago that Max made and is also referring to, there were select individuals who were able to see/peruse its contents, and many who were at least aware of its existence and general contents (if not specific details), which is why there is a plausible line of thought that Kubrick was not only aware of it but intentionally included a representation of it as-noted... and possibly doubly so as the layered imagery/meaning of "The Red Book" applies in multiple ways in terms of the movie, being both a standard operating manual in the mundane sense of the hotel operations but also a "standard psychological model" for archetypes that we carry with us and in effect is the "operating manual" for us subconsciously.
An interesting view, Max. Incidentally, you may have your theory for Bloodborne, too.
It's kind of funny how Ewan Mcgregor is in Doctor Sleep and then there's The Shining reference in Trainspotting 2 where Begbie smashes through the room with the mirror tiles with a sledgehammer. "Who's the smart c**t now?" -Begbie
Still a chilling reference/scene to say the least.
Carl Jung (like any philosopher) is trying to draw a framework for ALL HUMAN STORIES and NOT just the Shining.
It just so happens that Kubrick LOVED Jung's writings (teachings), so it is appropriate to decode Kubrick's films using the keys spelled out by Jung (just as Kubrick used them to create his films while leaving us clues).
I'm sure you could take any movie and use Jung's ideas to decode it without even looking for clues left by the director (as you find in SK's movies).
just here for the ride, a fun fun ride :)
Dr Sleep has been on my to-watch list but left my consciousness, it is back now.
Actually danny drank to dampen his shine and escape the memories of his father and the overlook hotel
Amazing analysis!!! But it shocked me that you never connected the symbolism of the maze with the Jungian psychology; how jack never was able to leave the maze, referencing the individuation process, of course, it's very easy to point out the bits left out after somebody built something. Amazing movie and amazing analysis man, congratulations!!
Max:”I love haters, explain your hate and I will love you and be your friend and equal”
That Turbo Kid game looks pretty neat!
dude you gotta give a warning before randomly dropping that evangelion mega montage while talking about jung, you could straight up give someone a seizure with that ... my brain nearly exploded, legit had to look away ... i did during much of those bits of evangelion anyway, my simple brain can't handle such intensity lol! nice parallel drawn between the themes though!
great vid, thanks again!
I think the shelly devall character being the crazy one is whats going on in the movie.
The Shining is the perfect film for the Carl Jung's book, The Red Book to permeate the veil of time and to be placed there on the table.
good for you!
14:33 We can definitely say that is Carl Jung' "Red Book" by interesting fact, book have very dark region in pages binding, this is special kind of books that inserts pictures in this case in the middle of the book, that dark region in book binding represents pictures, no hotel register red book contains pictures in it.
The hotel is a ‘mind palace’; mnemonic. Perhaps the mind palace of the ‘Overlook’ hotel (a place where people live transiently) is the physical manifestation of the memories of all that have passed through since the original archetypes playing out at the same time as all future echoes.