Who Is The Greatest Hero Of Magic: The Gathering?
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- Опубликовано: 15 фев 2022
- Magic: The Gathering has no shortage of heroes in its nearly 30 year history, but out of all of them, who are the greatest hero’s and what makes them stand out above the many other worthy candidates? Presented here are our picks for the very best the multiverse has ever had to offer, as well as the answer to who is the greatest hero in Magic: the gathering’s long and continuing story.
But if you are interested in the greatest villain, then go here: • Who Is The Greatest Vi...
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Now if you are interested in the greatest villain, then go here: ruclips.net/video/t_4TCZWtnNU/видео.html
Vh
You should do a greatest villain part 2 or maybe individual vídeos on the villains you talked about, maybe do a lore series, that would be so awesome, I'm loving these btw 😀
To be honest I didn't click into the video even though it's on the recommended list coz the thumbnail didn't have ur face on it. I didn't know it was ur video.
How about the worst heroes and villains?
I´d honestly be interested in your opinion of Dack Fayden and where you`d sort him in. With kindest regards, big fan of your work.
I feel like Ajani wouldn't be upset he didn't make the list, he'd be proud we even thought of him.
You get it
You sir are a scholar and gentleman.
Sigma?
Wait, really? Boo, I was afraid it would be the case...
Edit: And then Liliana got a really high place
I can't wait until he meets Elspeth again. Oh dear lord... the tears will come pouring out when he sees Elspeth alive again! I am so looking forward to that reunion! He took it so hard when he had to watch Heliod murder her.
Liliana was willing to give her life to screw bolas over. Gideon was willing to give his life to save a friend. One can argue about how characters are written, but let’s face it, Gideon was better written than most people like to realize. He was strong yet kind. People think of him as all muscles no brain, but he used his wit to convince the people of zendikar to stand with him against the eldrazi. He didn’t ask for anything when he gave help, and had faith in everyone being able to change. It’s why when everyone else was willing to abandon Liliana after the incident with bolas on Amonkhet, Gideon, literally with a fatal wound if he didn’t get medical help, was willing to aide Liliana on freeing herself from the contract. Liliana, who at the time felt everyone had an ulterior motive when they give help, since that’s usually what she had, was taken aback, to the point of feeling guilt over the contract changing ownership to bolas. Then in that final battle, when Liliana was going to break the contract and give her life, Gideon used his powers to make the contract take him instead, thus not only saving Liliana, but the multiverse. Gideon was also able to save Chandra earlier in life, even giving her the information on how to pass the trial. Sure one can take that as “goody goody justice man” but in the long run, Gideon was an action man not because it was easy, but because it’s harder to make a change than to say you can make the change.
Love this
awesome write-up. Gids definitely deserved a spot in this list
Absolutely this. The professor couldn't be more wrong in what he said in this video about Liliana being the only member of the Gatewatch who can be called a hero. His reasoning for including her are fair - although more related to bad decisions taken by WotC when they created the character than her actions in the lore -, but excluding the guy who ultimately inspired her to change her point of view was a huge mistake.
It's the superman effect. People complain and belittle people like that, always doin the right thing, Incorruptible, powers that make their risks minimal. But in the end their unwavering is such a strength, to teammates and readers have a standard a beacon of what you should be.
I also more than appreciate Kytheon's trascendency in mtg history
Gideon not even being a proper honorable mention is saddening to me. Yes, he feels generic at many times and was not the most well written, but his actions really did inspire so many to change, especially Liliana. Like it is mentioned in the video, being a hero also means improving on yourself and not giving up, and I feel Gideon's origins really do help capture that feeling of trying to improve yourself even when you mess up. I very much understand not wanting to designate a spot on the list to him, but to only give him so little credit for only his sacrifice in Liliana's section when he was the one to help her when no one else would, I feel is genuinely unfair. Regardless, I still loved this video and would like to see more.
You could argue he had a positive impact on several of the Gatewatch members. We all know how his sacrifice basically haunts Liliana, and stands as her personal beacon of true heroism. But there are others: he basically helped Chandra turn from a hot-headed, reckless, self-absorbed punk, into a proper student of fire magic, who genuinely helped others out of goodness (though it could be said that Jaya Ballard helped with this as well, but from a different angle). He also basically turned Jace Beleren from a socially-awkward, introverted nerd, with zero leadership qualities, into the guy he is today (still not amazingly heroic, but definitely more caring of others around him).
I agree Gideon IS the greatest hero!
Keep it hush hush, but the Professor is super chaotic and I suspect he doesn’t have an affinity towards white.
I think Gideon deserves more recognition and I get the argument that a hero has to go beyond his own limits and expectations, but Gideon did that twice. In his backstory he learn a hard leasson on humility and because of that we see him being way more compassionate to his opponents than other planeswalker, best seem when he helped Chandra survive the Purifying Fire and gets to work his own trauma with emotional display through the course of ravnica as an ally of the Boros Legion.
yeah but the prof is a simp for lili...
I agree.
Dude, please... I get what you're saying, but... Please improve your English vocabulary. This was a tough read. I definitely had to skim through it a couple of times to get it all down in my head...
@@jacob4920 that was a post made when I was suffering from lack of sleep, that is why it is a little repetitive and with sentences not ending properly. No need to be rude or to make assumptions about me.
@@prinnynaito You fixed the problem. That's the only thing that really matters. I can read what you were driving at a lot better now. If I was rude (which I probably was, a little bit) then I'm sorry. I was just momentarily frustrated by constantly having to reread every sentence because every word was so jumbled up.
Greatest hero: Urza.
Greatest villian: Urza.
Worst dad: Urza.
Beat me to it. :P
I haven’t even seen more than a minute of this video and something tells me this is very credible.
He seemed like a pretty bad brother, too.
You sure on that last one? Konda seems pretty damn loathsome.
There's this guy, an instructor at the Tolarian Community College. No name, just a title. I feel like he deserves an honorable mention, at the least. Broad access to education is a pretty damn good thing, after all.
Watching the Prof in various skits, I think the Professor (the character, not Brian) is kind of a petty asshole. Really not the hero type.
@@daverapp And the service he provides in spite of that petty nature is at least somewhat noteworthy- a theme of the video was people being heroic in spite of both themselves and others. He has office hours for Planeswalkers, I think we can all understand if he gets aggravated xD
I feel like calling him an Instructor is a bit of an insult
I thought the Instructor was the evil twin of the Professor.
@@RibusPQR I was using instructor casually- saying professor outright felt a little on-the-nose. Besides, they don't even teach at the same school. Good catch though, I hadn't thought of the evil twin.
"Because I am incapable of tears does not mean I have no need to shed them."
-Karn, silver golem
C'mon professor just give him first place! 🥺
I’m surprised Liliana is above Elspeth considering all Elspeth has had to give in her life, getting tormented along the way, but still choosing to push forward for the good of the many. I don’t know how Elspeth can be born to torture, lose her found home, watch a world be corrupted and die, be tricked into killing her lover, be betrayed by her god, and be tormented with her worst nightmares in the underworld… and not be a broken hero. She has literally died and still fights for good. What more can she give?
She's Wonder Woman, without being blatantly named thus. I was heartbroken, like Ajani was, when she got killed. So gratifying to me to see her alive again, and still planeswalking heroically.
Americans are saps for redemption arcs.
Both of them I absolutely adore as characters, but yes, ultimately, while Liliana has an extremely poignant redemption - Elspeth never needed to be redeemed at all, despite going through worse, so much worse, than Liliana. She always held on to her dreams of peace and happiness for others, she fought at every opportunity against the monsters that terrified her childhood and, unlike Urza, has been fighting the same monsters without ruining the lives of countless people.
The others here have said it already: Elspeth is a paragon, so she didn’t have to undergo a lot of character transformation. Those heroes can still be humanised by being reluctant to engage in combat etc., but ultimately, they don’t really have any serious flaws. Redemption arcs, such as for Liliana (think of Darth Vader) resonate with people much more. Because there’s more hope to be conveyed by a villain turning good than by a good guy doing good things.
That’s why I still think Gideon’s sacrifice for Liliana greatly diminished her story. The War of the Spark trailer was one of the best cinematic spots ever done for Magic - precisely because it *didn’t* show Gideon swooping in to undermine the moment. Gideon may have had the flaw of hubris / arrogance starting out, but after having caused the death of his own friends, he pretty much becomes another paragon himself (much like Spider-Man becomes a do-gooder in the wake of Uncle Ben’s death).
There is no other modern planeswalker with as many flaws as Liliana. Nissa could have come close, perhaps, but as the professor rightly pointed out back then, they retconned that out of her backstory, simply because “you can’t have a r*cist protagonist”. Yeah, remember that protagonists who go on a transformative arc need to have some kind of *misbelief* that they can learn to overcome?
If Wizards wanted to send a message of tolerance, the best way to do that is not to cleanse their heroes of any bigotry a priori: It’s to take a bigoted character like Nissa and make her see the light over the course of the story, through her cooperation with people from other species and other planes in the multiverse.
The greatest misstep the Magic Netflix adaptation can make (if it ever becomes a thing) would be to retcon Liliana’s “femme fatale” origins out of existence. Or worse, include those traits (vanity, selfishness, ruthless ambition etc.), but frame them as positives. Then again, the protagonist of the Netflix show, for all we know, seems to be Gideon.
@@cosmicprison9819 I mean, I agree, but ultimately, I don't believe that redemption makes someone a greater hero than someone who was constantly challenged and never abandoned their ideals. Elspeth lived an absolutely shit life, even more than Liliana, and never decided to just give in to despair. I admire Liliana for her redemption and sacrifice, just like other such redemptions and sacrifices are admirable - but at the end of the day, it's still only one moment, compared to people who make those choices again and again.
Meanwhile in Nissa's case... yeah, you made me think how I really dislike them retconning her like that, especially since Nissa is still... often kinda awful? And for now, she's never gotten any better. She talks about saving worlds, but well... She falls in the ultimate trap Green and White have, which is to believe your own ideal is the be-all end-all of everything, and that it makes you more right than anyone else. And so far, that perception of her has rarely been challenged, and never meaningfully.
Minor note: You said that Lili was the only gatewatch member on this list, but Teferi is also on the gatewatch. He took an oath in Dominaria and everything.
I think he meant out of the founders tbh
@@Arkouchie in which case, Liliana doesn't count. The founding members were Jace, Chandra, Gideon, and Nissa. Liliana joined after it was founded, once the threat of Emrakul on Innistrad was dealt with.
@@anthonydelfino6171 true, i did forget that
A+ lore content. Thank you for all your hard work prof!
To be fair, while Teferi is technically Gatewatch, he's such an old character that it makes sense Prof only thinks of him from old stories.
I'm surprised Gideon is only mentioned in Liliana's entry. He absolutely is one of the greatest heroes in magics history, at least from my perspective. Always willing to protect the weak, always willing to get back up and fight, and ultimately willing to sacrifice his own life so that another might live. When I think "MTG Hero" - Gideon is honestly the one that comes to mind immediately. If it wasn't for Gideon, the entire fight with Nicol Bolas would've ended up completely differently. If it wasn't for Gideon, the populous on Zendikar would've been reduced to rubble. If it wasn't for Gideon, Liliana would be a slave to Bolas still.
I think he deserves a top 5 spot, at least.
Nah Gideon was an arrogant prick who thought great of himself. That pride lead to the death of his group at the hand of Erebos and later risked the Gatewatch members against Bolas, even after Ajani advising against it.
Gideon was not a leader nor a Hero, he was a guy gifted with nigh invulnerability a strong sense of duty and trying to atone for his past. He is good hearted but it takes more than that to be a real hero.
I also thought of Gideon, and it even felt at several points in the video that the Prof was foreshadowing Gideon's inclusion.
Gideon was basically just "generic hero man". Not that there's anything wrong with that archetype, but there was very little depth or development there to make him a particular engaging character.
Also Gideon's sacrifice was utter stupidity, change my mind
People love anti-heroes. The "good, selfless man" is considered a joke now, it breaks my heart.
I feel there's justifications for any perspective on Gideon, but personally I'm with ya. I often find characters like Liliana, who take a long windy road filled with potholes before becoming a hero, can be held up as far more remarkable than plain ol' Gideon. Reliably heroic quickly becomes routine, doesn't really make as much impact when Gideon does the right thing for the 100th time. Is he a big bland slab o' concrete whose deeds are far less compelling to follow than a tragic and conflicted character like Liliana? Absolutely. Do his consistent heroics trump many many others deeds? Quite likely.
Edit: No shade to Prof though, he makes clear arguments for his choices, and this is obviously a highly subjective topic!
Not shown here :
Jeska, Radha and Venser, sacrificing Radha's spark and Jeska's life to save the entire multiverse
(Also Ajani who is the greatest guy ever)
I just like the part where Ajani rawdogged Bolas with his own soul.
Props to the professor for being objective and seeing the big picture by still including Teferi as one of the greatest heroes even if Teferi rejected his application letters and phased him out for countless hours when the brushwaggs attacked the college.
The greatest hero in Magic's history, who performed a feat none thought possible: Alison Luhrs, for writing a story that made Jace likeable.
LOL for real!
Underrated hero for sure.
Why throw that word out there are better one's much better language 😉
These MTG history videos are so engaging. I'd love the prof to do a series on forgotten characters like Taysir of Rabiah.
Or Greensleeves. Or Kiku. Or Ashnod. Or the Patriarch. Or Belbe. Or Bosh. Or Fatima. Or Norreen. Or Ratepe. Or Kayla. Or Dyfed. Or Chainer. Or Koth. Or Szadek. Or Lyese. Or Gwafa. Or Anowon. Or Maralen. Or Dack. Or the sapling. Or Crixizix. Or Ravi. Or Daria. Or Gix. Or Bo Levar. Or Dralnu. Or Rhammidarigaaz. Or Orim. Or Estrid. Or Mirri.
Yes! I love hearing smart people talk about things they love. It feels like the Prof is leveraging his English background to reveal awesome parts of Magic lore.
@@christopherb501 I second this.
Gideon really deserved to be on this list. There is no Liliana redemption arc without Gideon. There is no Gatewatch without Gideon. Gideon's story of growing up gets forgotten all the time because by the end of Magic Origins he was a hero trying to be a hero already after learning from the hubris that got his friends killed, instead of a selfish person doing everything for selfish reasons. While I don't have a problem with Liliana being on the list as I do think her character arc is entertaining, Gideon not even getting an honorable mention is a travesty.
Not sure I agree with Liliana. I think she's one of the more realistic and deep characters; however, almost every one of her actions up until war of the spark were done for personal reasons only. Heroism tends to come from selfless acts. She really only did that once, every other action was for self-fulfilling reasons. Even attacking emrakul was based on wanting to foster trust from the gate watch to assist her in killing the demons owning her contract.
Her whole character arc is a classic hero's journey.
I agree. I think War of the Spark was a turning point for her, and she's on her way to become a truly heroic characyer, but I'm not sure she's earned that title just yet.
Even her actions in War of the Spark were done for self-fulfilling reasons. Sure, she angsted a little while serving Bolas, but she only actually stopped once she realised she didn't want to be his slave any more. She decided that her own freedom was more important than her own life, but it was still all about her. The fact that she followed that up by doing exactly what she's always done - run away as soon as she can to safely avoid all consequences of her actions - just proved that she didn't actually change or learn anything.
@@spicyuh never will in my eyes
I hope we get to see Elspeth come back to stab more Phyrexians in the upcoming storyline. It makes perfect sense for her to be part of it- she has personal history with the Phyrexians, both old Phyrexia (which conquered her home and enslaved her) and New Phyrexia (where she helped fight the war and save Karn). She also now has the Shadowspear- a weapon capable of killing gods. Might be pretty handy to deal with a certain Elesh Norn..
Thats a great point.
The Shadowspear was also created from her nightmares about Phyrexia and it oozes with black oil.. I wouldn't be surprised if she had the same destiny as Tamiyo. Or maybe her actions lead to an ally of hers, like ajani, being compleated
Rumors are that she will be in "the streets of new Cepenna" the set after neon dynasty
Elspeth vs phyrexia round 2
@@yoav.kats6328 this rumor has been going since the set was announced. Its persistence alone lends it credibility lmao
Forgotten by the War of the Spark itself. Having to overcome a path of crime foisted onto him. Ultimately met by a a sinister demise when his every instincts told him to run. Dack Fayden, greatest thief of the multiverse, was robbed of his fame once more.
"You guys like Dack Fayden, huh? Fuck Dack Fayden." - Wizards of the Coast.
Seeing Liliana in the top5 is really Not plausible, as even if she did had a tragic origin attempting to cure/save her brother, but that is not enough to just say "She changed her mind at the end for redemption" when compared to ALL the things she did for her own interests:
1- Willingly gave her soul to demons and the chain veil in exchange for power for her own
2- Fulfilled orders of said demons, killing/hurting many along the way (including Garruk)
3- When she got tired of something that she asked for (the contract and demons) started to manipulate and put others at risk for her own goals (the gatewatch)
4- When she finally "grew and seeked redemption" by standing against Nicol Bolas, it was GIDEON how took the Fall for Her...
She is still a Villain (yes looks good on the eyes, but that is just marketing), just with 2 moments of ATTEMPTING good deeds at the beginning and in WotS, because most of her actions have been directed to satisfy her needs/desires for power and at the end OTHERs paid most of the cost. I could put her as 10-9th at most or maybe an honorable mention only
PS: totally agree with the top3 of the list
Liliana is no more a hero than Urza. She had a change of heart after causing massive damage to many planes and had led an entirely selfish life to that point, and the pain and death she caused was entirely the result of her choices to attain power. If Urza's saving of Dominaria (via engineering of Yawgmoth's demise through the Nine Titans and Gerrard) doesn't stop him being a villain given his life of arrogance and self-centeredness, then Liliana's single clearly uncharacteristic moment of self-sacrifice shouldn't put her on this list.
I think the difference is, in the end, Lilliana saw how she fucked up and turned agaisnt bolas and since then her goal is to ressurect Gideon because she doesn't feel she deserves her life to be paid with his. While at crucial moment Urza was so wrapped up in his own ego he decided to bromance Multiversal Stalin.
@@IdiotinGlans 😂 the end of your comment really got me
@@IdiotinGlans I agree with the point that heroic actions at pivotal points are important. Let me ask you this - do you think she should be on list of most heroic characters for it?
we all know the only reason she wanna resurrect him cause she it technically in his debt for saving her and she dont like that...
edit: "i would rather be dead then in debt" dont sound like a hero to me.
@@IdiotinGlans yeah but it was a literal last moment after how long? if it had more and more built up to it sure but she only defied it cause she hates being in debt and now she is in debt to gideon which makes her angst still.
I can't watch the video until later, but I hope that Gideon gets the respect he deserves. Kind, selfless, and virtuous to a fault, he was the ideal of what a hero should be. Always the first to head into danger, and last to leave.
I was really disappointed. Liliana snubbing Gideon as the only "truly heroic" member of the Gatewatch is crap. "To go above and beyond themselves" is way more apt for Gideon - he saved Liliana's life because he recognized how little he could do in comparison to her.
I don't how Gideon wasn't on this list. Disappointing....😔
I think Gideon falls into the same category as Gerrard. He was the quintessential hero, but didn't have the same growth or depth of character as the rest on the list. He should have had an honorable mention, but I don't think he belonged in the top ten.
As much as I like Liliana, I do think 4 was a bit high for her. Still, by the arguments and criteria presented in this video, she did deserve to be ranked higher than Gideon. She went on a proper journey and eventually discovered a new way of defining herself. From start to finish, Gideon has been the soldier to lead the charge. He is certainly admirable, but does not have a terribly deep character.
Gideon deserved to be in here over Lili.
Liliana is the only part in here I disagree with.
RIP. I had the same thoughts lol
I'm not trying to demean a great list, but I personally cannot agree with the sentiment that only Liliana has earned the title of hero among the Gatewatch. I'm not an old player, by any means. Came in during Dark Ascension, still love to learn and read about the old stories, and appreciate them.
But I think it's disingenuous to write off the new heroes for simply not being the old or as complex when they don't have novels devoted to them like the old ones did. And in particular, Gideon was heroic and though not as dynamic, still great alongside Liliana. Yes, Liliana became a hero. That doesn't make Gideon less of one.
Chad was a bit boring, I get that. He was the Superman to Liliana's Batman, the vanilla flavor who was a standard hero trope. Sure, fair to say. He had a martyr complex ever since his hubris caused the death of his friends. He then spent decades working to right that wrong and help anyone he could, often to his own downfall. He lost to Bolas, made mistakes and trusted the wrong people. Had his faith shattered in front of him on a world he finally felt connected too again. And he kept standing up, pushing back, fighting for others. Bolas bested him twice, and when he saw his one man army strategy wasn't working, and that the best hope was his friend Liliana (who he stood by when the rest of the Watch left), he finally found a way to give his life not only to right the wrongs of his youth, but to save someone he *knew;* not martyrdom for innocent many, but for a friend, when he had been the death of friends before.
I'm not saying the list is bad, far from, nor that Gideon should be higher than Liliana. Only that to dismiss his character by calling Liliana the only heroic one feels quite off to me. Still love your work, Prof. Just adding my perspective on this one.
Couldn't agree more, is Gideon basic white bread sure. That shouldn't take away from the fact that out of all the gatewatch he was the only who actually wanted to help people. I liked your superman analogy as no one would ever say superman wasn't a hero.
I think it was just poor choice of words on the prof's part. To be fair, he does then call her "the Gatewatch's greatest hero," which implies there are more heroes among them, just not in his personal top 10.
Gideon didn't even get an honorable mention? He's undoubtedly the greatest hero we had for a long time.
This brought a proud tear to my eye. Thanks.
He's too vanilla and boring tho.
@@Saiku Check my last name.
@@dustingideon5719 Ye I saw lmao
@@Saiku says you
Poor Ajani, would have at least liked him mentioned in Elspeth's story. Such a cool character magic has undersold.
Agrus Kos is one of my absolute favorite and honestly one of the most nuanced heroes of the premending era.
Matter of personal opinion, but I really liked Ajani in the original Alara. He stood up to Nicol Bolas despite overwhelming odds just because it was the right thing to do.
Yes! That should've have earned him a honorable mention or a spot on the list. Ajani has always been one of my favorite planeswalkers.
As someone who just got into Mtg a few months ago thank you for a lore video like this. Im in my 40s and one of my regrets is I didnt get into magic earlier. My friends knew I liked Mechs got me the Buckle up pre con as a gift and now Im hooked. Thank you Professor and all the super cool friendly people Ive met at my local gaming store. 👊
So, to recap:
- Teferi: flees from the war against Phyrexia. Phases out part of Dominaria and never manages to return it (therefore condemning it) -> Greatest Hero
- Karn: reluctant to act, even to protect Gerrard (which he was designed to do). Creates and abandons Mirrodin while being, at the same time, the cause for Phyrexia's return. His part in saving Dominaria was because of what Urza had done and programmed him to do -> Greatest Hero
- Jhoira: allows K'rrik to enter Tolaria and consequently almost leads to the destruction of most of the work that Urza and Barrin had done to protect Dominaria -> Greatest Hero
- Urza: dedicates his whole planeswalker life to protecting Dominaria. Knows about his own flaws, so makes the defence against Dominaria independent of him and even prepared in case he fell. Created Karn, Teferi and Jhoira. Had flaws in his personality and did questionable stuff but all in order to save Dominaria -> Worst Evil, even worse than Yawgmoth
- Liliana: does a lot of evil stuff throughout her life, has flaws in personality that lead her to terrible decisions and in the end redeems herself after being saved by Gideon -> Hero
- Gerrard: the definition of hero. Has to see his loved ones (Mirri, Hanna) dying around him and sacrifices himself in the end so that Dominaria is saved from the Phyrexians -> Honourable mention
- Gideon: has a life of heroism which include protecting Zendikar from the Eldrazi and sacrificing his own life for Liliana and for the defense against Bolas -> Not even good enough for a honourable mention
- Barrin: Like Urza, dedicates his life to protecting Dominaria. Is the strongest opposition to the questionable stuff that Urza does (there's even the card named Opposition dedicated to this). Sacrifices his own life in the war against Phyrexia -> Ignored
Thank you! This is the best post to this video. I was watching and waiting for my fav, Gideon, and was like ok cool he's top 3. While describing LIliana I was thinking, 4th place is good. Then he says, One of the Greatest Heros in Magic...Liliana! I said WHAT?!?! She did nothing heroic until she realized she couldn't defeat Bolas and decided to sacrifice herself to be done with it all, another selfish act! Gideon saves her and now shes unbound and can defeat bolas?!?! Gideon without even an honorable mention broke my heart honestly, Gideon is one of The Greatest Heros in MTG History.
@@fluramba I can't say I ever liked Gideon, and I honestly think his death is one of the worst "heroic sacrifices" I've ever seen in any story - but you are SO right about Liliana. Helping to defeat an even worse villain isn't the same thing as redemption. Motivation matters. And Liliana was motivated entirely by "I don't want to be Bolas's slave". She decided that her own freedom mattered more than her own life, but it was still all about her. And then she proves that she hasn't actually grown or learned anything by doing exactly the same thing she's always done - run away as soon as it's convenient, because taking responsibility for what she's done, facing the consequences of her actions, and trying to make amends to those she has harmed is still not as important to her as preserving her own safety.
Logical and truthful without being biased with emotion
Yeah I 100% agree. It's pretty shortsighted to underestimate Urza like that.
urza literally tried to turn on everyone when he thought he lost, the only reason he wasnt successful was because gerrard killed him. siding with phyrexia isnt especially heroic?
If a hero is defined by rising above its origin, I would except a mention of Xantcha on this list. But instated of her, we got a child prodigy as top 1, 2 and 3.
She was VERY high on the maybe list. A favorite of mine to be sure.
I agree, and insist Urza is still a hero.
18:50
Me and Liliana probably both agree that this spot belongs to Gideon.
Of course she would, and that's part of why she is there.
A timely change of heart hero or a consistently there for you hero, I know which one I'd pick for the list.
Slobad is and always will be my hero :") his selflessness and commitment to do what is right despite how most people treated him moves me more than any others in this list.
It stings that when you talked about Elspeth's story you neglected to mention Venser even though he was just as important of a part of that trio venturing deep into New Phyrexia as either Koth or Elspeth herself. Even that Karn might very well be a corrupted fellow in an alternate universe where Venser wasn't there to give up his life and spark to free his friend.
A friend bought me the 25th anniversary art book and Venser doesn't even get a mention in the planeswalker chapter.
When War of the Spark hit they referred to Domri as the first planeswalker to die.
It's my hope that come a return to New Phyrexia that we'll see Venser again in some form, even if only memorialised in a Saga.
@@minimagus6468 I remember thinking it was the coolest thing in Arena that when you played Karn or used one of his abilities he would have a chance to say "For Venser!" As far as I'm aware, that is the most recent acknowledgment of his existence, a whole four years ago.
That book was one of the most poorly written books in MTG. I own close to 50 of the novels and I remember being so mad and disappointed by the end of it... and they managed to kill off Venser who had so much potential in the ongoing story.
Venser: That quiet dude, in the back of the classroom, that everybody forgets about, especially now that he's dead. I truly feel for him.
My favorite Planeswalker, done so dirty.
So glad you included Toshiro Umezawa on this list. The Kamigawa novels were high quality writing as far as Magic stories go, and Toshi Was one of the most compelling characters written for this universe. Nice job on the video professor; would love to see more like this in the future.
Totally agree!
I miss the novels in the fat packs. Was a huge selling point for me back in the day.
@@Singe0255 You and me both, buddy.
I think the phyrexians are the real heroes, they make everything perfect
Edit: really surprised that Gideon wasn’t on the list, mans actually fought gods and was just as important in the war of the spark as liliana, she even owes him her life
All Shall Be One
Hey I found a completed one
All hail Phyrexia! Φ
All will be one.
Untill even Elesh Norn realises that there is perfection beyond compleation...
This might be my favorite video that you've ever done. It stirred up powerful emotions in me as someone who's grown to care about this story, the many stories of Magic the gathering. I loved the transitions, and the care taken to make this an experience as if I was to sit down and watch something on Netflix. Thank you professor and thank you to your team.
I just did my first in-person game of magic at my local game store and LOVED it, so I'm wanting to comment on the videos of everyone that convinced me to give it a try after being intimidated by it for decades to boost the algorithm a bit as a thank you. I noticed you mentioned in another recent video that this video wasn't doing as well as you'd hoped, and I really enjoy hearing about the story behind MTG--it's one of the things that made me interested in the game once I discovered it--so I definitely wanted to help you boost this video. I went to community college when I first graduated high school and you remind me of the quirky, down-to-earth professors I had there that I loved--and you especially reminded me of my favorite teacher that taught writing, and was never afraid to call out bullshit where he saw it, whether it was in politics or the school's administration! I met my husband in one of his classes and my teacher sadly passed away a few years ago from cancer--seeing a bit of his "spark" in you always makes me smile and feel at home. Keep doing what you're doing Prof, you're the best.
These 3 truly are great heroes - only second to their humble mentor.
Humble indeed
Barrin?
I think that Venser could have been on this list.
We'll unofficially count our boy in the number 1/2/3 spot via proxy due to Karn ;)
100%
True. After all, Venser gave Karn his life and planeswalker spark. If not for Venser's sacrifice, Karn wouldn't be as free as he is now. He would be the "Father of Machines" on New Phyrexia.
My headcanon is that Venser still exists as a presence in Karn's head. Karn may be stoic and steadfast, but the idea of Venser giving his friend snarky observations and everlasting moral support just warms my heart.
I've had this one and the villain one on my To Watch list for a day when I could properly enjoy them. I know these kinds of videos are not your most viewed, but I love them so much. Great work Proff and everyone who worked on them!
What about Sorin? Maybe not number 1 but he went against his own vampires to protect people. He also stopped the eldrazi in a plane. He sacrificed Avacyn for his plane and stopped his own father and olivia from taking over innistrad
Yes I think Sorin is pretty much in line with Lilliana. He does many good things but on the other hand does also constantly selfish things or things only for egotistic reasons. But as Lilliana, in the end he chooses to do the right thing.
I loved to see Slobad on this list, he deserves it so much!
#JusticeForSlobad
The one man i see missing is Barrin. A man who gave, and subsequently lost, everything to aid urza’s quest to stop phyrexia, blind to his own patron’s evils until the very end when all he had left to give was his life.
Absolutely correct.
Yes, an often forgotten and overlooked fiure. I agree, Barrin should have been on here, pushing Gruff into a honorable mention spot.
This may be my favorite video you have ever done. I had been reading the books ever since the Brother’s War, and it is SO great to see the old lore talked about and revered so much. Thank you Professor!!!
I want to see more story given to Ajani Goldmane. I'm convinced he has what it takes to be a true hero and make a list like this.
He is the mentor of heros. He got no respect in this. 😭
Oh buddy, how you feelin' bout that dominaria united now?
@@azuriel9292
😒😭😔
This didn't age well...
So many of the points you use to rightly villainize Urza apply to Liliana as well. Does one selfless act erase a lifetime of purely self-serving undertakings?
This is the conversation he's really trying to start. Sneaky prof.
Wait - no mention of Venser? A humble artificer that not only helped save Dominaria, but also gave his own life and spark to free Karn from New Phyrexia? Come on Prof, not even an honorable mention?...
You see, if he mentioned actually heroic characters like Venser or Ajani, he wouldn’t have space to go on a “sexy villain = misogyny” rant
Came to watch this because you asked. Love you prof!
I was very, very happy you put Agrus Kos in here. I've read the ravnica cycle books like 10 times each. Him and Feather are my fav heros of the mtg story's. Absolutely did honor to my choice of greatest hero.
What an amazing video! Thank you very much! Was very impressed about the subtle inclusion of Espelth in Bant, and loved all the stories! Kudos to everyone involved
What about Venser? He was with those 3 during the Mending and the rescue of Karn, for which he literally gave his heart.
Agreed. Top 10 heroes in magic is difficult to make. Probably should have just made the gatewatch their own spot together.
Well he's part of Karn so he's sort of there.
@@Mrtfarrugia by that same token, Gerrard made it onto the list twice, since a fragment of his spirit also lives on in Karn.
@@austinwilson1625 Yeah there should be a second list. Gideon, Ajani, Venser, Tamiyo and Serra are in my opinion also clear picks. I also can see arguments for Sorin, Vraska, Arlinn and Saheeli.
How are you gonna include Liliana but not Ajani?!? Dude is practically the poster child of a hero! Not to mention he's literally the mentor to heroes!
WotC themselves keep forgetting that Ajani exists, can't blame the audience for forgetting.
Same deal as Gerrard and Gideon and probably 'most' other white aligned characters. He does have some anger though...think we're about to see it now that Tamiyo has been...ya know. The scene when he returned to Tamiyo on Kamigawa with Elspeth's cloak after she was murdered by Heliod was quite touching.
It really ticks me off that this comment aged like milk in the Texas heat so. Just going to recount Ajani's deeds and heroics before WotC's storyboard team decided to defile a perfect character
• was the best healer for his tribe and a selfless person despite being treated as a pariah
• his first act as a newly ascended Planeswalker was literally to solo Nicol Bolas, stopping him from fully absorbing the maelstrom which definitely delayed Nicol Bolas' plans for mulitiversal domination by 10 real time years(not sure story timeline length)
•Saved Elspeth from self destructive behavior caused by the Phyrexians(oh yeah let's just make Elspeths best friend a Phyrexian 🙄)
• helped lead the aether revolt on kaladesh
• was the only guy serious about recruiting allies for the war of the spark
Oh yeah, and every where he walked to he was always looking to see if his friends that were there were okay first, the Cat was a real homie 😭
WotC should be ashamed of themselves
Thanks for promoting this on another video, I would've missed it! Fascinating look at MTG history.
The prof in the Neon Dynasty Commander Deck sent me (and I'm glad he did). Great presentation here! Thanks so much.
I'm going to be honest, I think of Liliana as a anti-hero as apposed to a out and out hero. Up till the war of the spark she was pretty self centered and hurt a good deal of people. she did get her redeeming moment on Ravinia but I'm not sure one last minute act of self sacrifice can undo multiple life times of amoral behavior. She definitely has the potential to become a hero but I just dont think she is quite there yet.
Yeah, cursing garruk to kill planeswalkers doesn't seem very heroic.
Liliana and Jace are the laziest character designs.
Aye, I feel her standing up to Bolas is potentially her big turning point, but we haven't seen whether she'll stick to this new path, or fall back on old ways. Does raise the point...we gonna see something other than mono-black colour identity on her? If she is embracing a more selfless route...that ain't very black mana.
@@austinwilson1625 That monster was going to kill her because she defended herself from a wild beast. He didn't even try to talk to her or anything, he just assaulted her in a murderous rage. Garruk is a fucking monster.
I feel like you could have also put Gideon on here, despite him suffering much of the same problems as Gerrad.
Thought he at least deserved a honorable mention.
As someone who has only been playing for a few months, having videos like this to kinda help break down and inform of all these old stories is wonderful. It also gives me inspiration and motivation for new deck ideas. Thank you for your all your hard work.
Came here from 'Is it worth it' video after Prof said it was not performing as expected. I was going to watch this anyway but wanted to wait for more relaxed time to really savour the flavour. I think these videos have a greater long term appeal than the quicker to digest content of some other videos, so do not despair. It was great, thanks Prof.
We all know that the professor is the greatest hero of Magic the gathering. Standing up to the tyranny of the high wizards of the coast? Preventing the of his viewers due to buying sub par products? If that’s not heroism at its finest, I don’t know what it
I'm tempted to say Vraska. Willingly giving up the memories of her love and the happiest time of her life in order to defeat Nicol Bolas. I need to re read the story of Ixalan block, it's so good. I don't know if her sacrifice makes her deserving of being the greatest hero but how it was followed up in later books certainly make Greg Weisman the greatest villain in magic
Love Vraska.
BLAME. THE EDITORS.
OMG for real!
Vraska is just lucky she got to be in the story at all, since gorgons were down to three in the entire world at the end of the first Ravnica block.
@@jacobd1984 Like with the vampires and the (true) dragons, that aspect of demographic was retconned in between Ravnica1 and Ravnica2.
This video is very well made! So much detail and it's all laid out very simply!
Thanks for the gentle push to check this video out. I'm not usually a lore guy, mostly because I checked out on the story after Kamigawa the first time. Thank you for not forgetting the old story heroes.i really appreciated this video.
This video gave me goose bumps multiple times. Magic's history is so rich and cautivating. I love this kind of video, please keep them coming!
It depends what History. Anything post mending is kinda lame if you ask me. But premending? Even the heroes were villains in their own rights. It was pretty cool.
Venser, Kiora, Ajani, Tamiyo, Gideon - great video Prof but these planeswalkers deserve at least honorable mentions. As it says on True Conviction Signature Spellbook Gideon: “Heroism is more than a single act; it is hundreds of small decisions, made every day, in pursuit of a heroic cause.”
What great selfless acts or small decisions has Kiora done? My memory may be a bit hazy.
@@IAmebAdger she gave up her favourite kraken she stole from a god to try to fight the eldrazi with? I’m kinda lost too not gonna lie
Kiora and Tamiyo? I agree they are more heroic than Liliana but....
While Kiora could certainly be called brash, careless, egocentric, and manipulative these traits often manifested in pursuit of a noble goal.
When the Eldrazi invaded Zendikar, Kiora planeswalked to Theros and summoned a rogue wave that hit Meletis and caused much destruction to the polis. While this was a careless act, this was never her aim as she had only summoned the wave to call out to the creatures of the deep so that she might enlist their aid to repel the Eldrazi menace.
Manipulation plays a part in letting the Tritons of Theros think she was an emissary of Thassa; even though she basked in attention through deception, she was all the while recruiting an army to battle the Eldrazi.
She also manipulated Ajani and Elspeth later on into thinking she was Callaphe, as they were seeking the Temple of Mystery. Despite having her own reasons for the charade and assistance, nevertheless Kiora was an integral part of the journey leading heroes Ajani and Elspeth to their goal.
After appropriating Thassa’s Bident, Kiora continued to build an army and joined up with Gideon’s forces to retake the Sea Gate.
When the Eldrazi Titans appeared Kiora also helped keep the city safe repelling new waves of Eldrazi along with Gideon while the rest of the Gatewatch focused on the titans. In an effort to repel Ulamog’s brood, Kiora summoned giant octopus Lorthos whose size drew the ire of the Eldrazi titans who quickly cut it in half and then proceeded to wound Kiora. Thereby also bungling the plan to contain the Eldrazi within the hedrons.
Despite failing, Kiora regrouped with the Gatewatch in their next plan to defeat the Eldrazi. In a critical moment of weakness during the fight Kiora considered the risk to Zendikar too great that these Eldrazi Titans become fully integrated into the plane. She attempts to undermine the Gatewatch but is thwarted and they manage to incinerate the titans anyway; ashamed Kiora planeswalks away.
During the War of the Spark Kiora becomes trapped as were many planeswalkers when the Immortal Sun became activated. Once Chandra disabled the Immortal Sun, Kiora was one of the few planeswalkers who remained to help the Gatewatch overcome Nicol Bolas.
There were many points where Kiora might have let her shame (ex. destruction of the polis, disruptive summoning of Lorthos, being wounded, failing the Gatewatch) stop her from attempting to help in the next great heroic charge against evil (Eldrazi, Bolas). Unlike many she recognizes her mistakes, while yes even making new ones.
Critically her mistakes and character flaws never keep her down for long and she is there for the most critical battles to keep the multiverse free from tyrannical beings. There’s a nobility in her persisance to fight the good fight, and for that she deserves a spot in the pantheon of MTG heroes.
@@thomasscheck2070 compelling argument
Pls More... lots more... even in podcast format or another audio platform where one could subscribe or something. The way you deliver this with detail and passion is amazing!!!
Love these types of videos! Thank you for making it. I'm not sure how y'all pair all the flavor texts to the story but it's incredibly impressive. Keep up the great work, please!
This is the content I want more of. I’m tired of the negativity, I’m tired of the sadness, I’m tired of the tiredness. I want more about the characters and what they do, how they be, where they influence worlds. I want more content on the worlds themselves and how each plane could impact another. Rhystic studies does a great job, but content from them is few and far between. I come here to TCC for product reviews, these types of video essays, and sometimes the occasional deck builds for commander. The clickbaits don’t catch my attention anymore, but a 30 min video essay about heros in story? Yea, I’ll listen and pass that along more than the negative reviews of yet another product.
While I completely understand your point, and in general yes- I too wish to see more positivity in the world; you must understand the critical importance The Prof plays in his critiques of Wizards and the like. Let’s face it, all the other bigger fish around here are on the Wizards payroll, they’re not going to voice the concerns of the players. Someone has to call them out, and to be fair there’s been a ton of concerning news for the magic community. Secret Lair overload to crappy standard sets, lazy cashgrab “double feature” to general fatigue from the amount of products. They hear every one of his words and thankfully so. It’s a corporation with a money printer… it needs the stick. Again I totally feel where your coming from and I’m coming from loving the game and the community and I just try my best to unify the community in resisting the corporation. LET US RESIST TOGETHER!
I would have thought that "Uzra's lab partner" would have been on the list myself. I mean urza for all his bad faults he probably would have made more mistakes if barrin wasn't there to tell him stuff like "hey it's not very ethical to charge soul bombs with human souls...... ". I mean he was just a regular o human who could cast all colors of magic , that most neo plainswalkers wish they could do.
Thanks Prof! Great video that really highlights the history of some of the planeswalkers/heros.
I have loved both this and your villain videos Prof. So great to learn about some of the lore for these characters as someone who missed it back when I first started and is (in essence) new to the game now. Wonderful work!
so happy to see Slobad on this list, he is one of the most obscure yet impactful characters in the MTG storyline. To me however, I would put Elspeth higher up on the list because of her influence on other planeswalkers, especially Kytheon.
Also smh, how tf did this whole list have no mention of Optimus Prime, the true greatest hero in MTG
He has the most powerful of all Planeswalker sparks: the Allspark.
You know I subscribe to the theory that Slobad is actually still alive, in a sense. Or rather, that the preator Urabrask is actually a fusion of Slobad and the Mirrari corrupted by Phyrexia, but Slobad's lingering spirit is what has lead Urabrask to side with the Mirran resistance and that when we return to New Phyrexia (as foreshadowed by the flavor text of the double masters borderless printing of Mox Opal) we're going to see a purified Urabrask return to being Slobad.
I would argue that it took a mind like Urza’s to plan and execute Phyrexia’s destruction. Overly focusing on the collateral damage would have frozen him, hindering his efforts to a halt. In a way, a man in his position wouldn’t have the luxury of heroism, he just needed to get things done at any cost.
I agree
As someone who is only lightly familiar with the background story of MTG, the combination of this and the villain video you made recently were SO phenomenal. You’re a fantastic story teller and now I just want to ingest any and every possible medium to learn more. Thank you.
I came here after watchin the kamigawa commander product review video where there was a plea to come watch this video because it wasnt performing as well as expected. I hope this does well enough in the long-term because i really enjoy MTG lore and the professors comentary and analysis. Great work.
My favorite "hero" (or rather protagonist) of MTG is Belbe of Rath/Phyrexia.
Gerrard is an obvious pick like you said.
I hate to "Um, akshually..." but Teferi is a currently active member of the Gatewatch, so Lili isn't the only member on the list. (Although if we're going by currently active status, then Teferi is the only member. Like you said, Lili decided she liked being a college professor better.)
These type of videos are masterful, I love all the work you do to include the cards that reflect the story you're retelling. Thanks prof!! It's videos like this that have led me to recently biting the bullet and buying a copy of the thran, so myself and friends can start reading the story of mtg.
This is one of the best videos on the whole channel. One of the best lore essays too. I'm not a huge Vorthos, but I love a good rundown of the lore, especially pre-mending.
Two of my favorite MTG heroes made your list, Elspeth and Liliana, so that's pretty good! I also love Glissa Sunseeker, but I suppose her heroics from the original Mirrodin were erased by her villainy when Phyrexians conquered the plane. I also am partial to Thalia, the Guardian Thraben and Heritic Cather and her efforts to protect the citizenry of Innistrad, even when the church she believed in tried to stop her. Felt like they did her a massive disservice in the most recent sets given her possessed by Saint Traft state and leadership of a new sect at the end of the prior block.
I love these character analyses. Part of what made Magic stick out to me when I first got into it as a kid was that you had this complex game with so much lore attached, if you were interested in it, that made it feel so much larger than just a card game.
Absolutely outstanding. I didn't know much about the characters before this, but I'm really blown away. Thanks for taking the time to make this video!
Just watched the commander deck vids and I cant believe this video underperformed. Its so cool! I love these lore videos and while I can understand if making them is difficult from a financial perspective I've enjoyed both this one and the one about the villains. As someone who loves this story but just got into the game these are a great gateway. Thanks Prof and have a great day!
I cheered when I saw Agrus Kos on the list! He and Teysa always were my favorite ever since I read the ravnica trilogy
I miss the free mini booklets from old sets that got me hooked in the lore.
For real
That was fantastic! To everyone involved with the making of this video, well done!
So, so happy to see Slobad here, along with a character or two I didn't even know existed since I go through periods where I don't play Magic. I love anytime you get inspired to do something involving Magic lore. The cosplay interviews, the card backstories, whatever. I personally disagree with Lili's spot on the list, but we are SO close on this. Thank you!
I really love Teferi's story. I mean I love all the heroes on this list, but the story of some selfish, little kid in school developing into a kind, thoughtful, and deeply caring father and friend is so fulfilling.
In this way I see some similarities with Tony stark as iron man. Both great heroes
Came back here after your commander precon review. Just wanted to say this was a great video Prof! I hope you don't feel discouraged because the quality here was wonderful and it was a delight to hear more about the story from before I started magic. The community loves you, even if algorithms can punish experimentation.
This, as well as your villain video, are two of the best things you've ever done. I'd love more lore videos.
Loved the intro. It had an almost English lecture vibe to it (in a good way) as if it was the start of class on a literary analysis of the heroes of Magic. Perhaps TCC should run a course track for that.
So that's Professor's answer for the Heroism question of "Is it more heroic to be born a Hero (like Gideon) or to overcome Evil Nature?"
wasn't Kytheon imprisoned in his early life and killed all his friends challenging a god?
@@Hawko1313 Hubris =/= Evil
Gideon wasn't a hero he was a maverick and pompous glory seeker under the standard of justice and had a lesson in humility when he got his friends killed and then he truly became a hero
Absolutely loved the list and I was shocked that Liliana was on here. I do feel like getting deserved at least an honorable mention though cause he is a great hero
Hi Prof, I watched this video after your recommendation at the end of the Kamigawa commander deck video, I'm so glad I did, I don't know much of the lore and really enjoyed the video and the format, thank you for this and all the content you create.
Great video Prof! I love the lore breakdown of each person, but also all those wonderful cards you ended up showing me from ages past. I do hope you do more videos like this because this was a great one to listen to and watch.
Gideon was the founder of Gatewatch, bring them all together to make the right thing.
His best Quote to Jace " We're also the one who choose to stay."
Karn and Teferi are the two most villainous cards to hit the table.
If Teferi is one of the greatest heroes and we all hate playing against him... Were we the real villains all along?
@@VolvoxSocks Love it lol!
Combined with the excellent editing of the card art and The Professor's ability as a story teller, you really make these tales of MTG Lore come alive! What a great video!!!
love the artwork and character analyses! Thank you, Professor 💙
Where was my boy Gideon Jura!! He sacrificed his life to allow Liliana to defeat Niki B!!
8:30
A yes, the story of the legal loophole wherein the Dimir Guild followed the guild pact by the letter by undermining the other guilds. How I love legal loopholes.
I watched this video yesterday when it released. I enjoyed it very much but forgot to like the video. Today I watched your product review of the new commander decks.
I came back to this video just to tell you how much I did enjoy it. And though thise kind of videoes maybe doesn't provide the same numbers as product reviews and other "easier" videoes, I can ensure you that the audience of this video really appreciate your good work.