Roland D-50: Key contact cleaning/Velocity issue
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2011
- HI :) TAKING ANY SYNTHESIZER APART WILL EXPOSE RISKS TO THE SYNTHESIZER AND THE USER! ALWAYS COMPLETELY UNPLUG D-50 FROM A POWER SOURCE BEFORE OPENING D-50. IF YOU ARE NOT FAMILIAR IN TAKING SYNTHS APART, DO NOT ATTEMPT. ANY REPAIR/MAINTENANCE IS AT YOUR RISK. Synthesizers are computers with circuit boards, power supplies/transformers, wires and other sensitive electronic components!.
-- SEARCH FOR A PDF OF SERVICE NOTES OR SERVICE MANUALS FOR YOUR SPECIFIC SYNTHESIZER FIRST BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO TAKE APART ANY SYNTHESIZER, REPAIR OF KEYS OR ANY OTHER AREAS OF TECHNICAL SERVICE. NOT EVERY SYNTH KEYBOARD ASSEMBLY IS THE SAME AS D-50. --
Here is a short video about how to get into the keys and keyboard assembly of the Roland D-50 (and only the Roland D-50 specifically), and an effective way to clean the contacts hidden under the keys to resolve the classic D-50 velocity issue. I was asked by a few people about the velocity issue and I thought I would make a short video about what I normally do to fix my D-50. This has worked well for my D-50 but isn't guaranteed to solve every D-50s issue or other model synths key issue since each synth has a history, a different level of use, wear and tear and internal stress over the years of its life. When I bought my D-50 years ago, it had velocity issues on almost every key and the paper tabs just above the sensors were dirty and no where near the white color they are now.
D-50s are just sensitive to dust when it comes to the keys and the contacts. I only removed about 6 keys for this video to save time.
So, if your D-50 is having the typical velocity levels of 127 (sounding too loud all the time), a good cleaning with rubbing alcohol will help. If after a good cleaning doesn't solve the issue, consider taking D-50 to a tech who can troubleshoot the problem further.
Please feel free to leave questions. :)
Remember- Always try to find pdf service notes for your specific synthesizer's disassembling instructions.
:) TSF 
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I like that you had the background music actually in the background.
Thank you, yes!
thanks 4 being so thorough in your explanations this is great I hope U are still around
Thank you so much! I have the same problem with my Korg Chrome, and unbelievably, none of my music retailers have any keyboard techs. (Including Guitar Center). I am long past any warranty, and now, because of your guidance, I can try to do this myself. Thank you!
EXACTLY the video I needed. Now my D-50 is just as good as new. Thank you very, very, very much!
My second C wasn't work and my second to last key was too loud, after doing these steps it got fixed, my last still don't work, but I am happy for now. Thank you!
SynthFreq,just wanted to tell you that I really like your tutorials.You're very helpful,and you have a great attitude.Please keep up the good work!
HI :) No offense taken. I have a bilateral high frequency hearing loss that affects my production of speech but I am working with new hearing aid technology to try and improve my speech clarity. Thanks for letting me know and being kind about it as well. I will be glad to clarify any questions on the information in the video. Just let me know.
TSF
great Job !! thank you VERY MUCH for your video, GREAT help. bravo! , cheers from france
I'm hard-of-hearing too and a musician, so I can kinda relate. I could easily see how hearing loss would affect one's speech! Good luck with your journey and hopefully the future brings better tech to help all of us who live with hearing loss. I can't even accompany myself on acoustic guitar without headphones and amplification because I can't hear it well enough!
This is a really cozy and pleasant video to watch while quarantined right now. And also while cleaning a d50.
mrmanatee hi. That is so awesome. Thank you. :)
It’s crazy to realize how care free times were back then. With this world changing so much, synths and music bring us a sense of safety and security as well as some mental work for our minds to keep busy. I have so much programming to do and will be making new videos in the next few days about synthesis and D-50. :)
please be well!
:)
@@TheSynthFreq everything old is comforting these days. Anything I should look for while I clean this d-50? I haven't opened one up before
mrmanatee hi. So true! :) with the D-50, its a pretty simple setup inside, do be careful of the thin ribbon connector copper strip that connects the keybed to the main circuit board. It relays information from the keys and also the after touch information. It is located at the lowest key area of the keyboard by the pitch bender circuit board. This ribbon connector fits into a square socket and can be easily pulled out if you don’t know it’s there. So just open the back of D-50 slowly and gently so the ribbon doesn’t become disconnected. If it does you can easily reseat it back into its rectangular receptacle near the lowest C key. Also be sure to look up and download the service manual as it shows you all it’s parts and where each part is and what it does. :)
@@TheSynthFreq oh my god I straight up thought I'd torn that ribbon connector when I finally got the keybed out. I freaked out for a solid 5 minutes
The only video I've found so far that shows how to clean an electric piano that has springs on the keys.
I come back to this vid regularly. Such a helpful and clear tutorial. I've just got yet another d50 (my 4th) which needs a bit of tlc. I really must stop selling them! This one is defo a keeper. Hope you are well. X ♥ 🎹 🎶
Okay, this is Cool! I was trying to find more info on cleaning the aftertouch on my D-50 - and here I find YOU showing the job! :-D What's better than learning from the master!
Wow! Thank you thank you thank you! I've searched everywhere for this info to fix one key! Very nice presentation.
Thank you so very much for this video. I have had a D50 laying around for 20 years with this problem. I will give it a shot with these instructions.
Brilliantly explained and very enjoyable to watch. Your calm voice and all the many clever extra tips gave me confidence doing this repairing task. Thank you very much, you are great!
You are so kind! I appreciate your kind words so very much. Thank you!!
@@TheSynthFreq I did succesfully clean and refurbish the D-50 which I bought used and yesterday I could play and listen to it in all its glory for the first time. What a difference! Throughout the process I was accompanied by your funny and useful comments in your video :) Indeed the D-50 "has a [BIG] dust problem". Thank you so much and if I might buy you a coffee as I little appreciation I´ll be glad (donate button?). BTW I heard your band/combo you should make a little kickstarter and fund an album :) If you need help mixing/ mastering I am at your service. You helped a synth head big time, so happy now. HAPPY EASTER! ❤🎵🐰🥚
@@mcentertain omg this is fantastic news!!! Congratulations my friend!! Long live d-50!!!
The donate button option is a good idea. I don’t normal expect anything in return but just knowing that your d-50 is doing wonderful makes my morning!!
🤘🎹😉
Thanks for the video, TSF. Not only i'll give it a shot on my D-50, but I'll try it on my old Axis and my as old A-50. All my best.
Your explanation on how to remove the keys also goes for the Roland HP-100 piano. Had to search for a very long time before I discovered how the keys be removed. After opening up the keyboard I didn't even notice that the keys are being 'locked' by the transparent strips at the bottom. So it was a real riddle to me how it should be done. Thx!!!
Just been doing the same cleaning with success. Thank you for great help synth freq!!
Hey thanks for taking time to do this. You, your music and videos are totally cool. HUGE help, thanks again!
Hi there, my d-50 just came back to life thanks to your good advices, Many thanks for that!
Awesome!! Thrilled to hear this. :)
Thank You! I've just stared cleaning my "new" d-10 and it helps me a lot!
Hi! Thank you very much for spending some time doing this awesome tutorial. I have a JX-8P with some keys not working properly, I'm going to apply your process on it and hopefully that will bring him back to normal.
Very good video. Easy to follow. You're a very good instructor. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the video, cleaned up the D50 nicely. Bought mine new in July '87, the strange thing is you cant get the center circuit board out for that center section octave. But it all worked out! One thing that freaked me out was once I had it all together there was no sound!...remembered I just turned "local" off..WOW what a relief..lol. No loud notes...nice..!Now my JP6 is on the bench ready for Europa upgrade! Cant wait to control everything through midi on the fly. Tons of fun.Thank you !
Love Styx in the background, great advice Thanks!!
Thanks! Thanks to this video I was able to take off the keys on my D-10 in order to get a better look at the circuitboard underneath (I'm trying to use the D-10 keyboard with an arduino to make my own midi controller)
Thanks for your videos !!! I'm a big fan of your work !!!!
Thanks. This is a confidence booster for me to do it on my own
Thank you for your informative video on cleaning the sensors! Well done!
Thanks so much! :)
TSF, This helped a lot in solving quit keys on an old D20 as well. Thank you!
did this a few years back on my D-10 , great info... Im gonna use the paint brush this time time, 3 keys need cleaning again ,...Thanks
Thanks for the help, great video tutorial! Helped me to clean my Roalnd VP-330 keys.
Awesome! So thrilled to hear this. :)
Great! Now i dare to clean my Korg 707 with vellocity problem. Thank you!
hey synth freq! thank you once again!! I actually got round to doing it today and all went well, I can't thank you enough :) :)
Thanks, helped me saving an old S-10 from electronic parts recycling!
THANK YOU SO MUCH
Very good tutorial. Great help thanks!
I wanted to thank you for making the D-50 Librarian. It's a great, idiotproof program and as soon as I've made some money I'll donate. I downloaded it even before I got my D-50 and have been using it every day since. :)
And for the record: I haven't managed to get aftertouch to work either on my D-50, but it does need cleaning.
Thanks for that - I glad it's of use to you and all D-50 users. Coding it certainly helped my understanding of the sound architecture - still can't program any decent sounds though!!
Oh actually I found the aftertouch does work but isn't as sensitive as it was - the reason I didn't get any aftertouch was because "Ext. Controller" in the menu was set to "Aftertouch" - changing it helped :). But I only found this after taking it all apart - but it gave me a chance to fully clean it.
I really like watching your video 😘👍👍👍💯
Very helpful! Thanks a lot!Your music is amazing!
Thanks for your reply and sorry for being impolite and replying back so late. :( I'd rather not open it myself. I have a friend who has much better motor skills than me, so she could help me. She carried my precious D-50 through three train stations and didn't even hit anyone in the head with it! I'd hate it the D-50 were damaged. I hug it every night before I go to sleep (yes, I'm a bit of a weirdo)!
Great video, thanks! Very helpful. I'll tackle a non-working synth key this weekend. The key feels fine but there's no sound triggered by it. I probably just need to clean the contact.
Superb Video. Very helpful and informative.
Everything is beautifully described. One suggestion would be to very gently clean the rubber popple on the contact side as well. Use a medium sized brush similar to a make up applicator. Always seems to help with that particular contact style. They tend to hold on to dust and dirt.
Very very helpful! Thanks a lot!
Together with some other textual tutorials, this helped me cleaning my D-50, so thanks a lot. :) Actually there was a piece of tin foil under one of the rubber contacts, no dust, that was REALLY weird. I don't want to know what the previous owner did to the synth so that a piece of tin foil could get down there...
great job! thanks for the video
Helpful info. Thanks!
Hi! :) That is wonderful!! Very awesome. :) Thank you so much for the message. Great success! Synths can be unpredictable machines at their age of 20+ but with a little TLC, they still make us synth freaks happy. :)
Have a synthy day. :)
@wevelve - As TheSynthFreq said, these basic principles work for most keyboards, even though they're all a little different. What I CAN tell you is that I recently did this whole process on a friend's Super JX-10, and was astonished to see the keybed assembly was nearly identical to the D-50! The key mounting, springs, and even the style of keys was exactly the same. Since your JX-8p is from 1985, and the D-50 was 1987, it makes sense they used the same type of construction. Good luck!
love the video, thanks for the information
@TheSynthFreq Love it.. I also love the music from the 1980s.. I played Tangerine Dream Firestarter and Flashpoint the other night..
Your amazing .. very good and detailed job !!! My keyboard which is velocity sensitive have 4 keys( in the whole 5 octave range) that must hit them a little harder than others to hear them. Do you reckon this has to do with cleaning ??
@friskyrabbit HI :) Yes. Absolutely. These synths are over 20 years old. D-50 is 24 years old, the warranties on 20+ year old synths are long ended by now. Since older synths are of age, maintaining them is essential for continued operation and for their synth-tastic awesomeness. :) A well loved and cared for synthesizer will be around for a long time. :)
:) TSF
I am reading this 11 years later your message !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! geezzzz....!!!!
Very helpful thank you.
It told me just what I needed to know and that was to repair a Roland A33.
Just to make things even better, perhaps you might turn the radio off and try to talk a fraction more slowly to make it even easier to hear and understand you.
Again, thank you.
AlwaysaPlanB Thank very much. :) I'm happy to hear your A33 is able to be helped. Thanks for the advice on speaking slower, I am a fast talker I know, and I will keep this in mind. The radio was just for some background music to keep the "dead" spots in the video from being too boring. :) But yes I could turn it off for the next video so I won't be tempted to play air synths to it! hehehe
HI :) Thanks. :) I wish you luck with the work! Spray cleaner is actually more of a hazard for the synths since spraying anything into the keys while the synth is put together can introduce spray onto the PCB and might dislodge the sensor under the key along with allowing too much chemical into the synth. Its best to clean the PCB and under the tightly 'sealed' contact strip, spray wouldn't reach the area that needs cleaning unfortunately. The strip needs to be removed completely.
💜your nail polish!
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!
You must also clean the black conductive rubber circles on the grey rubber strip. I use Acetone which works very well. And if your aftertouch has failed, as they all do, you need to dissemble the felt covered strip that runs the length of the keyboard. You will then see a copper strip that oxidises over time and looses conductivity. Clean this with Brasso but make sure to remove all traces of the cleaner when finished. Also clean the rubber strip that contacts the copper with Acetone. When you put it back together is will work better than new. I have done this to 6x D50's.
thanks for posting this info
Golden earring on the radio!!
@Viabeat HI :) Sure, no problem. :) That's wonderful about your D-50. :) So happy to hear.
Hehe I have done the same thing with local off lol Good luck with the JP-6!. Jupiters are awesome!
:) TSF
HI :) We have a J2, great synth :) It has a similar set. Often times more than one cleaning is needed unfortunately. My D-50 has done this to me, where I clean it and put it back together just to find a key still acting up. Sometimes though if you give it a day or two, it settles in and starts behaving itself. Tearing down a synth several times adds to the risk of damage but a repeat cleaning can fix the key issue too, so its better to weigh the risks first. Best of luck with Juno2, :)
Great video - very informative as always :)
I just got a D-50 (to help with the D50 Librarian) and it doesn't seem to have a problem with the velocity but the aftertouch doesn't respond in the D-50 at all and the aftertouch MIDI messages sent out only go up to about a value of 60 (instead of 127) - so it sort of works but not very well. Do you know if cleaning the contacts as you demonstrated would fix this issue or is it more to do with the sensor board (or whatever it's called)?
HI. The black material on each contact is most likely best if left there. It could be the carbon like material used on the contacts to help with the connection process between the keys and the processing/scanning board. If the black material is only on the contact itself and looks organized, leave it there just to be safe, if its random, and it all over the place, I'd just clean the excess and clean around the contact instead.
:) TSF
@moejoe1337 Awesome! So happy to hear! :) The foil is interesting for sure. Happy programing! :)
Very informational video, keep it up! I just got a Roland d50 literally for 20 dollars, an older woman's son had it. I don't have the card if any info on how to get hold of them would help. Thanks for any help!
I can also post a second comment on the video information for future viewers who decide to change the battery while working on the internal cleaning. Its a good idea to change the battery and do the cleaning in the same session instead of opening up D-50 twice. :)
HI :) Yes this is true, you can do either. Please only do this if you are comfortable with opening a synth and the risks involved. I recommend first try leaving the main board intact/connected. if its out of the way and the wires are long enough, then its fine to leave it connected, saves time as well. :) Also if possible, work on D-50 on a flat, stable surface other than a couch hehe In this video it worked best for video purposes only.
About the Moog shirt, thanks! :)
:) TSF
Hello! :) I hope I have reached you in time. Changing the battery will automatically wipe out every sound in the synth, unlike some modern synths, the preset sounds and data are not retained at all. So, when you power up D-50 after a battery change, there will be random data on the LCD, no sound, no nothing to let you know D-50 is ok. D-50 isn't dead, but its just freaked out by the battery change. So you will have to reload the patches in by data card, computer or typing them in. :/
You're awesome!
thanks for this video as was very helpful. I have a key (3rd G# ) is not working. But I cleaned up the circuit board conacts and even swapped a rubber contact around and for that one key this still did not work (while the rubber contact worked well on the other keys - I just flipped the rubber section around). Do you think the circuit board is just broken for 1 key possible, as wonderinf if I really need to replace the whole board (thats if you can even get them anywhere) or do I really need to try and give that contact a good clean again? I even used the pencil trick and cleaned it up after but no difference.. Thanks in advance.
Thank you!
You're Great..!!!
I'm having an individual single note velocity issue on my RD-700.
In the 90's I used to replace buttons and vacuum out my RD-500.
I suspect the basic guts are all the same. Going to open it today and follow your directions for cleaning the contacts under the rubber strip.
Is there anything in particular that comes to mind with my problem.
Thanks for any response and advice you have time for.
@xan1242 HI :) Sometimes it may take more than one cleaning to get it behaving again. Also check to make sure that each contact in the strip that meets the circuit board has the black dot on the under side, if its gray instead, then the magnetic paint may have worn off. Also I would check the copper/plastic ribbon connector to the keybed as well just in case it has become disconnected. By the way, what extremes are the velocity values on your D-20?
hi :) Yes. The metal envelope is actually shielding paper (part 22255252). It protects the main board and its sensitive components. Please try and leave it in place as best you can. the board would be exposed to interference and damage without it. I would try and bend some of those edges slightly away from the traces but not too much as to touch the metal frame. The PCB will have a somewhat protective coating on all the traces but its best to be very cautious as you already are. :)
:) TSF
Hello
Thank for making this video. The instruction you’re giving is very important, But when you have music playing in the background it’s hard to understand what you’re trying to instruct us to do.As a suggestion you can introduce yourself with the music on it and turn off the music when you begin giving instruction and then conclude with the music. Hope this helps.
@TheSynthFreq On some keys they are 127, some of them are behaving normally and a few of them behave strangely, that is, they are sometimes 127 and sometimes normal.
One of the black dots that make the contact broke out of one key (I don't mind that too much), but replacing it with something else (for example, a button from a old remote controller) will work as well.
I might open it up again soon, but synths are one type of electronics that are hard to disassemble and assemble back.
Awesome tip!!! Adding to that I saw some D50 patches u demostrate on another video. Do u sell those? Thanks
HI! You have a great video here. I would need a little help. Looking to buy a Sejung SJP 330 digital piano, but they say that the middle EFG are slightly muted. Do you think that could be fixed? Also, do you know any thing about this brand? I never heard of it :( I would really appreciate your help!
Thanks in advance!
I have a strange issue with my digipiano. The b and c keys have trouble sounding during scale runs or trills. Take note the problem occurs when they are played consecutively or one after the other. Played togeth er they work fine. In combination w/ other notes its fine. this happens to b&c and f&f# in all octaves. I appreciate all the input.
Thanks!
hi :) I was shocked to hear the news of your dear D-50. If possible, go through the connections again, check that they're completely connected & no pins were bent. Some of the CNs have the same size ports that can be mixed up around the battery area. Sometimes just disconnecting everything can throw D-50 off but usually not permanently. A general reset might be necessary, but as last resort. I would recommend doing a re-check of all connectors, wires first. Let me know what happens.
If we misplaced the spring between black and with will it affect the velocity or somethin?
This is one of those older synthesizers that would benefit from a custom rebuild. I don't have one, but I've thought about it before anyway. House it with an expander module in a single enclosure and use the midi input.
(desktop version?)
or you could use the rack version to do it probably..
thank you :)
Even the radio on the couch is oldschool ;-)
I just worked on my old Roland ED PC-70 controller and all the keys are working again, thank you for this helpful video. I just have one glitch. After putting the springs back on the keys I have 2 keys that are to high compared to the rest of the keyboard. I checked the springs to make sure I had the right size and that checked out. So I checked for the metal piece as you said to adjust but it turns out to be plastic instead of metal. Is there anyway of adjusting the plastic piece without breaking it? Thanks.
UPDATE -
We I just found the problem! The plastic piece was missing a rubber piece that was floating inside the keyboard. I noticed something was missing compared to the other keys that were fine. Anyway, I GOT IT!!! HALLELUJAH!!!
@svenssoncorps Hi :) The gaps between the keys are a little difficult to fix than key bushings being leveled. My D-50 has same issue and the practical thing would to be to open D-50, take the keys off & take a look at the little metal tabs on the metal frame that the keys connect into. If you notice that the metal tabs are bent too far over to one direction or the other, you could very carefully and gently use pliers to bend the tabs to a better alignment. This takes a lot of caution! :)
what do you recommend if the keyboards rubber mat contacts are corroded/oxidised together with the keyboards circuit contact
yo thanks for this.
Thanks for this great video! How long should I wait for the alcohol to dry? Is there a particular kind of alcohol I should get? Can you use alcohol on all electronics? I have a Yamaha s30. The design is nothing like synths worked on in all the RUclips videos I've seen, even videos that work on Yamahas, maybe because it's an older synth. The velocity sensitivity is malfunctioning on two keys, but when I took it apart I couldn't really see any dirt or corrosion on anything. Any suggestions?
hey synth freq, thank you very much for posting this vid, I've yet to do the job but I was wondering whether spray can contact cleaner will do the job in this case??
Hi, Great video thanks and pushed me to do a successful repair myself. One thing, I read elsewhere that there are '36 shorter springs for the white keys and 25 longer springs for the black keys' but you mentioned as the other way around! Are you sure the black are for the black or was that an error?
Hello. :)
Yes that is correct! Thank you for pointing it out. I had a moment of mix up there. So yes you're correct.
Thanks for letting me know of the mix up. I'll add a correction in the video.
:)
FYI: 70% isopropyl is like 28-29% water. I would use contact cleaner, it's designed for what you need here
Contact cleaner is definately NOT whats needed....it would damage the carbon track on the circuit board and the carbon pad that makes contact with it. It is not a mechanical contact switch as such. A little water on a cotton bud is good enough.I'm a Digital Keyboard Engineer and come across this issue many times.
Hello. I need your help. I have a Roland XP 80, and I left it outside in my garage over the years, and it was standing up on its end. The heat of many summers, has melted to epoxy that hold the semi weights on the underside of the keys. It has run down the outer housing and some on the inside. It also got into the keys and several of them won't even push now because it hardened back up. I have my keyboard apart as I type this, and I am just now starting to try to clean the dried and hardened epoxy off with acetone. I watched some other videos of other people and they said acetone seemed to work for them. I need to cut this epoxy off and scrape it so I can clean my unit. I am not sure if the epoxy ran down inside where those pad things are yet. I don't think it did, based on just viewing them. I really like this keyboard, and it was my fault for leaving it in my garage when I wasn't using it. But I need advice. Is acetone the best solvent to use to break down this epoxy, or is there something else that works better? After watching this video here and some of your others, I believe you have the knowledge to assist me in getting my keyboard cleaned and back to playing again. I took time off from playing my keyboard because I started teaching myself the bass guitar. I will keep my keyboard inside from now on after I get it playing again. Please give any advice you might have that will help me get this epoxy glue off of my unit and playable again. Thank you in advance.
Hello :) Thank you. :)
I hope all goes well with JX-8P.!
Update me on how it went and if it helped the situation. I have never seen the internals of the JX series but they are Roland and might have some similarities in build and keybed design.
** Although this video is only intended for D-50 and no other synths, you can modify the basics of the video and apply the idea to another synth at your own discretion with care. :)
Good luck. :)
:)
@svensoncorps - I have serviced both of the D-50's I own as well as another for a friend the same way TheSynthFreq has shown here. I agree with her that side-to-side key "gap" adjustment may be tricky. The keys are basically hooked on to the metal keybed frame and attached to a spring. There's not much to control the side-to-side orientation of the keys. There are two little slots in the plastic keys that slide onto the frame. Perhaps if these slots become worn and are "wide" or perhaps uneven,
Hi, I enjoy your great tutorials on Roland d50. Following your video I'm stuck on disconnecting multi pin plugs (4) from key scan circuit board. I don't want to crack the plugs. My d50 is 28 years old and was never open. Appreciate your help. Thanks!