Rivian's R2 Is Already Built to Fail
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- Customers are no longer paying a big premium for electric vehicles and that doesn't bode well for Rivian's (Nasdaq: RIVN) R2, which is expected to cost $45,000 when it launches in 2026. Travis Hoium covers the specs and the competition in this video.
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0:00 Rivian's R2 Is Already Built to Fail
01:22 R2
02:35 Chevy Equinox EV
03:31 VW EVs
04:32 Analysis
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If someone buys Chevy over the R2 to save $2k, that’s on them, haha
Yes. This. ^
* $10k
No one really see those other ev’s as competitors. Not even close!! The R2 is a better vehicle.
Someone certainly does.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......................PAul
Rivian does not support android auto or apple car play. Why? No idea. Mileage? Is it same as tesla? Was shopping on their site..kind of disappointed, was waiting to buy, gonna wait some more, maybe others will be better.
This analysis is off simply because these cars you’re comparing it to our lesser vehicles, and this is not only larger, but of a higherquality and caliber. based on the prices of the other vehicles, I think this is perfectly acceptable and logical.
@@2times3 Tesla doesn’t support it either. Word is Rivian might soon support CarPlay.
I'm not sure I agree with these comps. The ID4 gets terrible reviews, the Volvo is tiny, a Chevy is...well...a Chevy.
Cars already sell for different prices based on quality, premiumness, brand, etc. This R2 is more capable, better looking, longer range, more cool features.
Other than the Volvo, all of the other EVs, Tesla included, are just Ugly. Like hideous. I'm not sure what's going on with car design right now, but its really bad and if I'm buying an EV, I'll spend more to get one I like.
This is about as out of touch of a video I've seen about EVs. There's 8 minutes I'm not getting back.
I took delivery of an R1T two weeks ago. I bought it at market price. I can attest that I have NO regrets. It was 100% worth the money. I am by far nowhere remotely close to being the wealthiest person in my neighborhood and yet I can't even get out of the driveway without being accosted by neighbors giving compliments and asking questions about the truck. I agree that this review /prognostication is a "foolish" assessment because the author clearly fails to recognize that people with money aren't shopping for "A" car, they are shopping for "The" car, and the market is plenty flush with eligible buyers.
Yikes, what a REALLY uninformed take. You may understand the stock market, that does not mean you understand the automtive market. You're biggest arguments against Rivian and R2 only confirm you don't understand the market completely. On that note, maybe you shouldn't make stock recommendations on companies and industries you don't fully understand.
Yeah I agree with a lot of the comments here. These are poor comparisons. Rivian is a premium vehicle and even when the cheaper R2 comes out it will be marketed to upper middle class consumers. They shouldn't try to be the cheapest electric car or the market like the Chevy Bolt. Personally I'm interested in getting an electric SUV. But I'm not waiting for Rivian to drop into the $30s I'm waiting for it to drop into the $50s. Their product is just better at this point.
That's like saying that Lexus won't sell RX's because the Ford Escape exists. Different market segments. Similarly, Rivian is not expecting to sell hundreds of thousands of R2s as they'll barely be able to build just over 100K/yr. Yes, EV demand is not the same as ICE, but the price is right for a luxury SUV of that size.
Actually they do expect that the Illinois plant is supposed to kick out 150k r2s
I don't own stock in Rivian but I have an R1S and it is the best vehicle I have ever owned. I'm signed up for the R2S as well. Rivian financials show profitability in Q4. Amazon is the deep pocket and now they are talking to Apple. In my opinion, Rivian is not going to go bust.
Take a poll because you're in this boat alone. People would much rather have a Rivian than any of the competitors EVs that are similarly priced. The preorders for all Rivian vehicles jumped significantly when they debut the R2
Aspirational brands are hard to measure but I think you may be underestimating Rivian’s brand value. Nobody I know considers Chevy, Volvo, or VW as desirable as Rivian. Plus, Americans love off-road or adventure vehicles which are Rivian’s sweet spot. A better conversation may be whether Rivian has the cash to increase production to levels needed in 2026.
The flaw in your comparison is assuming the traditional ICE manufacturers software and design is an apples to apples comparison.
I have a Lightning bc I valued the space but completely yearn for the software Tesla and Rivian offer.
Those competitors are not comparable. Other than the more expensive VW bus, the trunks have no height, so if you are hauling things, or have dog crates, that will not work. The only similar I see is the Kia EV9, which is tens of thousands more expensive.
The EV9 has 3 rows. It's more comparable to an R1S. About 3" shorter than an R1S.
Kind of makes my point about all Rivians being too expensive.
A Kia!!? 😂
@@matthewkendall4657 Kia sells more vehicles in a month than Rivian sells in a year.
Thanks for that clarification
@@asymmetricinvesting how many kia ev9 are sold compared to r1s?
It seems like there might be a market segment that's being overlooked. I currently own a gas-powered Audi Q5, but I'm interested in transitioning to electric, and the Q6 e-tron will likely be around $65k. That's the comparison I'm making. While I wouldn't consider the other cars you mentioned, the R2 priced at $45-50k is quite appealing-as long as the build quality is excellent.
Rivian is amazing. The R1s had some growing pains but they're amazing now. The r2's are going to be just as good at a much lower price.
Damn trucks look better than a Ford and Chevy trucks the rivian trucks look awesome they really look good and smooth so nice I have seen a blue one or white one green
People don't want a regular looking legacy maker Ev. They actually want a cool looking EV.
Most of the the vehicles you use as site are more comparable to r3 (not r3x) rather than r2 in particular they are smaller than the r2. None of your competitors are off road capable. I need an off road capable vehicle and none of your examples cars will work for me. You should be comparing the r2 to the jeep recon, toyota forerunner ev (if they make one), (bronco ev if they make one), Subaru forester ev (if they make one). The point is no one is currently selling and few are planning to sell and off road capable ev in the next 2 years. We might get the jeep recon earlier. Of course I would like to see the r2 at $40,000 or $35,000 or even free, but I will buy one at $45,000 if it looks like I can take it off road (9+ inches of clearance, 4/AWD suitable tires, suitable gearing). My worry is that a useful version of the R2 will be closer to $65,000 which is too much.
You make some going points and the comparisons aren't perfect. What you're pointing to is the R2 being a niche vehicle like the Jeep Recon, which probably sells about 50k units per year. And Jeep sales are falling fast.
R2 wants to be mass market and I think the price point and specs will make it niche. That's fine if that's how your company is built, but Rivian's cost structure and vertical integration needs scale to make financial sense.
@@asymmetricinvesting Jeeps are JUNK..............Paul
@@asymmetricinvesting Jeep Wrangler sales are falling because fewer and fewer people want a gas guzzling 14mpg vehicle, especially with gas at $4+ a gallon. Also, have you even been to a Rivian event? If you have, you would know there's not a shortage in demand.
This "analysis" has too many holes. The average price of a new vehicle in the US is $48.000 so the R2 is not a premium price. All those vehicles he compared are not in the same class. None of those will have the capabilities of the R2 nor the software refinement.
Just consider the R1s. For 80K you get a 3 row 4 wheel drive off road capable SUV with a nice interior and 300+ miles of range. The only other SUV of that size in that price range is the Kia EV9, which is 77k when trimmed in a similar manner, with way less performance and range along with a cheaper feeling interior. A little higher in price you can get a Model X or Porsche Macan which is much smaller and more of a performance luxury SUV and is marked up like crazy so you can't get one for under 95k right now. The EQS is 100k and under powered with no frunk. The R1S is actually very well priced when you consider all of it's real comps. We will see where the R2 lands in terms of pricing but if it is just a smaller R1S with similar capabilities and performance then it will also be priced very well at 45k
Splitting hairs over ~5k here. Honestly, if you're already in the market for a 40-43k SUV, bumping up to 45 is a non-factor. And if it is a major deciding factor, you need to lower your budget.
Keep trashing on it I will keep load this will be going up, product is great ppl love it looks great and once the R2/R3 is out they will be everywhere and many Tesla drives will switch to rivian. 2025/2026 is the big jump also I don’t see how the American government letting this company go out of business as it will make china the major ev supplier by far
R2 is more inline with a toyota 4runner and polestar 3, tesla model y. Pricing on all vehicles are out of control. I have to agree with other comments your comp vehicles arent really comp. The price is still a problem for most americans looking at 7% rate for 60 months, but what will that rate be 2 years from now
There's no perfect comp, but to use your examples.
4 Runner: 3 rows like a R1S
Polestar -- Not selling well
Model Y: $45k today. Will likely be under $40k in 2 years when R2 is out.
Rates are pretty normal historically. If rates are cut it means the economy is bad. If the economy is bad it's bad for auto companies.
This guy know about electric cars? Software, charging or quality.
he is long GM he spends more time shitting about rivian than actually talking about GM
ID.4 is significantly smaller than R2 and EX30 is a lot smaller. Tesla Model Y is quite comparable. I don't think the 45k price is a problem at all, reservations were pretty fierce, reception seemed very positive to me. The problem is can they be profitable at 45k... will they ever get to R2 production because they lose so much money. And the answer is no.
I think what you are forgetting is that those buyers who would have one point purchased a Tesla but won’t because of the CEO is now the primary target for Rivian. I think your comps are trash and not ideal. I think for a five seater luxury SUV this is right in the middle. People don’t buy a Chevy to save $2000 over this SUV if they have $40-50k to spend. If that were the case the cheap Chevy Equinox would outsell Honda’s CRV and Toyota RAV4 (spoiler they didn’t). I think you are off the mark here. People are more often paying this premium in the market today to get exactly what they want, not just going with the cheaper alternative.
Your whole analysis is literally based on price. No real insight.
This is what a SHORT SELLER video looks like
This perspective reminds me of the pre-iPhone era when consumer experts struggled to grasp the product's value proposition, use case, and, most importantly, its target audience. I appreciate the comparison to increased competition, but one crucial factor often overlooked is the design aesthetics. Despite the lower price points and similar specs of other vehicles, design aesthetics are a key reason Tesla and Rivian have succeeded in the EV market. Their design approach has hit the mark, setting them apart from the competition, which still lags far behind in this regard. And let's not let me get started with the software. Traditional OEM EV software is junk compared to Tesla, Lucid, Rivian.
Rivian is a nice looking vehicle just saw 3 of the trucks on road looking nice 👍
I don't believe there are any BEV SUVs on the market that fill the niche the R2 fills. There are lots of gas and a few hybrid and very few HPEV on the market. In fact it looks like the R2 and the VW scout will be the only real choices in this niche at this price point in 2026. Every other off-road capable BEV is much more expensive $60k or higher for entry level vehicle.
Isn't the R2 more of an off roader, so it compares more to something like an evoque? or the cheaper bronco?
A rather simplistic one dimensional analysis, with price as the only variable. As stated in the comments, Rivian should be comped against higher priced, more differentiated brands. There is a reason VW and Audi exist, as they target different segments in the market.
The R2 is what Toyota SHOULD BE DOING. Meaning: making the midsize 2002 era 4 runner in a full EV version and not the bi polar hybrid.
None of the cars you mention come close to the boxy suv beautiful r2.
The other ev’s look like a steaming pile of poop at best.
Also you mention jeep sales but jeeps are now over priced and still shockingly far from a full ev.
R2 will be incredibly popular and that 45k price will be fantastic considering there comps are at that price and higher.
Please enjoy your soccer mom ev van and your subscription to the home baking channel
Yep! I have the R1S and 2015 $Runner. Disappointed with the release of the 2025 4Runner. I wish they have the EV version of the 5th gen.
I think this is a slightly off comparison. The rivian R2 is bigger. It’s not luxurious. But some will say it is like some call Tesla luxury. But they aren’t. I think the rivian is more of a 4Runner style vehicle than a small crossover/suv such as the Equinox, EX30, EV6, or the ID4. Now the Buzz shouldn’t even be mentioned lol. Even though the R2 is smaller than the R1S it’s really not a small SUV at all. I think by the time it comes out you’ll see EVs in the size of the new Hyundai Santa Fe probably under $40k. But I think it’ll still be competitive just not the best value. If they could get this vehicle out by years end they would sell a ton. But by 2026 it’ll be very tough.
Comparing those competition vs the rivian is like comparing a Chevy Trax vs a 4runner. They are not the same demographic..... but here we are.
Comparing the tools you offer to Rivian just because there are better options over there is like comparing Apples to Pears. None of them are of Rivian quality in terms of design or performance (including the Chevy you like). I think your negative thoughts about Rivian will turn into positive ones in the future. Finally; No one in the world can sell anything cheaper without making it worse, so looking only at the price of a good means accepting some tricks.
For transparency sake, please disclose what vehicles you own or drive on a regular basis.
AND… do you own any Rivian stock?
At $45k They'll sell like hot cakes......And If the R3 goes for $40.....Rivian will have to build Millions..........I want one Yesterday..............Look at the Millions that paid $90 for a Tesla...Half the car................Paul
I have the R1S and have the deposit on the R2. I want the R2 and R3X too! This guy have no clue what he is comparing
Just reserved an R2, This is America we like off road vehicles and will pay a premium for them. None of your comps are off road type adventure vehicles. I feel like Rivian is the in the best position to succeed because they offer off road vehicles that are actually competitive. The Model x is pretty much a van and not an SUV. FYI I love vans
I have owned my Rivian for almost 2 years and I would buy again today. It has been a great purchase and would highly recommend. Also customer service has been great 😊
Honesty id pay extra to get the R2
Good example of how our stock holdings make us look at things biased. Do you really think Chevy EVs compare to Rivian? Have you talked to at least a few who actually bought EVs recently? Rivian just need to focus on the operational side of things and just bring the car to the road. I dont hold any Rivian stocks, I'm a Tesla model Y owner and I've no problem admitting Rivian's cars are just better. Tesla got other advantages...aka its headstart, superchargers, FSD etc. Let's not even bring in GM EVs to this conversation. Overwhelming majority who at least test drove a Rivian would take it over any Chevy EV of same class offered at similar price. I would even question the judgment of any who would take a Chevy Blazer or Equinox EVs over an R2, assuming availability, with a simple question...WHY?
You can't compare the R2 against the Chevy or any other SUV in that size. This is an off road vehicle and not a city car. It is like comparing the Toyota 4Runner against the Toyota Highlander. Different market and and different type of buyers
This also reminded me of another embarrassing instance of comparing products based on $ and disregarding customer experience
ruclips.net/video/eywi0h_Y5_U/видео.htmlsi=UUAT0BJjdBZfuOE8
The problem is that it’s not going to hit Europe until 2027. It will be lots of new improvements from competitors by then. If it was available now, I would take it straight away. Will it still be relevant in 2027?
The issue I have with your comparisons is you should be comparing all these notes smaller vehicles with the R3 not the mid size SUV R2. Doesn’t make any sense.
All of those starting prices are crap....that Chevy was 44k+(as shown) all those other are even higher. Rivian will be fine.
Wouldn't trust any FOOL with my money. 😂
Way to not even mention the worlds best selling car, the model y. Mentioning the chevy equinox and not the model y is clownish
It's a car. Everything I compared to at least pretends to be an SUV.
Was it on purpose you left out the Model Y……. The best selling car worldwide for a few years now, and it’s closets true competition. Rivian is barely a few thousand more, with likely more capability, usability, and a nicer to operate cabin.
These are NOT even Comparisons.. Its like trying to use a AAA battery in place of a AA battery. Different use cases
Would you prefer I compare to Jeep, which is a low volume, niche, struggling automaker?
They definitely wont win in a race to lowest price. For that they would have to give up the quality and character of the Rivian's. Rivian drivers know how unique they are. They will start to get people inside of the cars with targeted marketing as most may have seen one but never experienced one. Dont target buyers who cant afford 45k for a new car. For that segment they will never have the volume and quality cuts to be profitable
It's not that he doesn't make good points, but he logically undercuts them. You can't say that rivian is way overpriced their vehicle, when they are literally in the same price point. 40k and 45 are in the same price point, besides we are 2 years away so any talk of price points to me is very premature. My issue with rivian is they need to reduce costs at all costs. In football games are won or lost in the trenches for rivian it will be on the production line. They should question every part that goe's on that vehicle.
This guy is off 😂
This was a poor analysis, the R2 is not comparable to the smaller, cheaper, and lower quality EVs used for the comparisons. They have plenty of demand for the R2. A lot of people I know want the R2 and they have no problem paying $45k for it because of the superior quality and software compared to other EVs.
Watch out folks, this is a hit piece. I can smell a little FUD when I see one. Sure, the EV industry is struggling, but Rivian is in a different market space that most of their competitors. Tesla, the so-called EV industry leader is self-imploding, but Motley still rates it a Buy, go figure.
Try doing an actual apple for apple. Lots of feature not the same.
This makes my point. What you're saying is Rivian is like Jeep and the others are GM, Ford, VW, etc.
Jeep is a terrible business. Great vehicles. Terrible business.
I hate how the internet gives people with zero understanding but heavily slanted agendas a huge platform to spew misinformation. Guy hasn’t done a lick of research or he’s intentionally misleading his audience.
The crossovers are R3 territory, not R2. The entire foundation of this video is flawed. Yes without a R3 on the market Rivian may lose sales to these vehicles, but that’s it.
You forgot about the R3X which will sell like crazy!
Terrible take. Thumbs 👎
These cars which are mid-level interiors with slow as ICE acceleration will cost 5-10% less than the R2 with luxury interior and supercar acceleration. These comparisons are all extremely favorable for Rivian. Time will tell though, there is plenty of time for the market to shift or for the R2 price to creep up.
Test Drive the R1S, and R1T. You'll see why they are the best selling Elected Vehicles selling over $70,000
Quality makes a difference
Javier Varela Volvo's former Production Manager starting in August. Had 43% increase in Volvo's sales for 2023. Making a best selling record in Volvo's 97 year history.
El Akkari Tesla's former Worldwide Raw Materials Manager. Should be able to reduce bulk buy orders. In a Tanking Raw Materials Market.
It's all down to slashing the $38,000 loss per vehicle. If the R 2 and R3 can be sold at a profit. 215,000 vehicles will sell. At under $45,000. With the tax creditBringing it down to $37,500. If the can't sell the R1S and R1T at a profit this year. Rivian got problems. After retooling and reconfiguration of their Normal Illinois plant. The closure for a month is supposed to help with profit by the end of the year. Let's see what happens. If Dementia Joe implements a 50% tariff on Chinese Electric Vehicles in America. That are flooding Europe right now cheap. It will also help
I've driven it. We had a reservation early and took a test drive in spring 2023.
It was fine. My wife didn't really like feeling like she was driving a tank. The interior wasn't big enough for 3 kids and a dog. My reaction was that it was shockingly small compared to other vehicles at the same or lower price points.
We bought an Atlas for half the price and we love it.
Agreed with the second half of what you said. Rivian is in a "prove it" phase. $1 billion in quarterly opex is the biggest problem, IMO.
Dude have you noticed that nobody agrees with you in the comments? I feel you are biased on many of your videos (for whatever reason) and therefore I’m out and unsubscribed.
Do a video in 2025 and reflect on the stock price from now to then ..
100%, I will.
This guy criticized
When georgia plant is planned, it is stupid decision,
When it is delayed and expand illinois factility, it is stupid decision,
Now, he is comparing rivian with chevy?! 😂😂😂😂
Come on man let's compare apples to apples this is ridiculous they're not even in the same class as the ones you're suggesting this was just clickbait that's what it's only purpose was! Or was this primary purpose nothing more than to serve as a hit job? You're ragging and cutting on something that's not even on the market yet You've not seen it You've not driven it! Give me a break!
I was really thinking about investing in Rivian but what you say about their price of the R2 compared to other vehicle on the market and coming to the market is correct. Thanks for the heads up. If their stock drop to a price that I can’t refuse, I might dip my toe in. What do you think would be a good entering point to take a gamble, between $5 and $7?………I just subscribe. look forward to seeing more videos.
Literally clickbait
This one's a miss man. None of your comparison is apples to apples. Just from that standpoint alone, this video loses all credibility.
Exactly, I believe this guy is intentionally trying to downplay the stock to give him time to scoop up as many shares that he can before the stock takes off.
Chevy ev, vw id4 ....terrible cars. They are ev is the only redeeming factor. User experience is not close to rivn
If Rivian wants to sell a $45k SUV and have 25% gross margin on the car then that car certainly won't be a premium car like the current models - no way. The comparison to Chevy is completely valid.
The R1T & R1S cost too much to build even at the prices they are charging for them. Rivian is gross margin negative - that needs to be fixed.
This may be the first time in 20 years that I agree with all of the RUclips comments I've read. This analysis is awful and off base. Was this a cringe for views strategy?
This is click bate. Full of opinions & lacks facts.
Truth hurts, great vehicles, they will run out of cash. Book it. They need 5-10 billion and get GA up and running to survive. Normal isn't even close to Fremont as well. They are a buy after the next debt financing.
Another company will jump on board before they go bankrupt