CORRECTION: I misspoke about the base ISO! It’s 160 on the X-T3, not 200. I’m still used to the X-T2 I was using before. Also, I didn’t provide a link to the copy stand I’m using because I purchased mine on eBay. Just do some Googling and I’m sure there are similar ones out there. 👍🏻
matt! don't you get better 1:1 sensor coverage with an extension tube when using a 50mm macro for this purpose? also, the scanning mask wasn't ever back in stock! tried to order one last week... it says it's in but when you actually click to put it in the cart it won't take the order. we should crowd fund a scanning mask if they can't keep up!? can't wait anymore.
@@punkrachmaninoff I would think a macro lens would be the most ideal lens to use since that's what the lens was designed for. There's a product in development that will fill that void that the Lomography's limited stock has left. It's called the Pixl-latr. Here is a link for more info: www.kickstarter.com/projects/hamishgill/pixl-latr-helping-you-digitise-35mm-120-and-4x5-fi
@@mattdayphoto www.dpreview.com/articles/6519974919/macro-photography-understanding-magnification deleted my rather confusing reply, this is the best article i could find. with a 50mm macro on APS-C you get a 75mm focal equivalent (instead of the preferable 1:1 on say the infamous nikon 100mm macro lens everyone loves soo much for digitization of 35mm negatives) - hence my suggestion that you may want to attach a 12.5mm extension tube also, to get an effective 93.75mm focal length on the X-T3. think that is as close as you can get with a vintage 1:2 50mm macro lens on an APS-C. camera.
@MrBusytimmy As I understand it, Capture One only allows very simple plugin integrations at the moment, like exporting files or "roundtrip" with other standalone programs. It doesn't have the deep integration that the Lightroom Plugin SDK has (which is necessary to make Negative Lab Pro work the way it does). But it's something I'll keep on my radar!
Looks awesome - I'd tried ColorPerfect in the past, but the UI is atrocious and it's still outside the Lightroom workflow. I'm impressed at what you've done with the Lua SDK; when I looked into making something along these lines in the last year, the API exposed seemed quite limited (eg. no way to set curves or read pixel data)
Thank you for your video, your suggested setup worked great. My mother's photos from about 70 years ago were destroyed in a house fire a number of years ago, but fortunately the negatives were in a different location. I got hold of the negatives and with your recommended setup I was able to get great digital copies of them . Some of the pictures I had never seen before. My mom has passed on, so the pictures were even more special to me. Thanks
Hi. Great video. A few suggestions to improve the workflow: 1. Save a custom white balance in-camera of the light table itself so that you don't have to use the LR picker tool on each photo. 2. You can invert the negative shots by inverting the Tone Curve in LR. To do this, press the Edit Point Curve button at the bottom right corner of the Tone Curve and then switch the curve points. Black goes up and white goes down. You can even save a preset and apply it to all negatives taken in a session. So no need for 3rd party plugins. 3. Use tethering in Lightroom so you don't have to transfer RAW files from the camera which will save you a ton of time. 4. Of course, shoot at the sensor's native ISO, but be wary that for some cameras it's not always the lowest ISO setting. 5. Turn off your camera's noise reduction and sharpening settings 6. Use electronic shutter instead of mechanical shutter to avoid shutter shock 7. If your camera is not a Fuji and you can't use a mechanical cable release, either buy a digital one compatible with your camera, or use a 2-second timer, every camera has this feature built-in. 8. Always use a macro lens and find out the best aperture for the lens (search online). It's usually somewhere between 5.6-8 anyway. Old film macro lenses are excellent, the Micro-Nikkor line-up from Nikon is a great example. Hope this helps, best of luck!
Just loved this. I joined a tech company 45 years ago, as the only keen photographer in the unit I was given the task of duplicating sets of 35mm slides. I used an Ohnar device which fitted my SLR in place of a lens. Here in the UK I could only copy slides in summer, the thing had a tiny aperture and of course no AWB or Photoshop in those days. Around 20 years ago I set up a photo, slide and negative scanning service and looked at ways of scanning commercially. Thankfully Nikon were still making Coolscans so we invested in those. To this day I think I have Britains largest collection of Nikon 35mm scanners. We've also used Epsons too. I'd make a couple of suggestions. Dust is the enemy of scanning and sadly on mono film you can't use Digital ICE, so an anti static cloth, soft brush and air blower might save you hours in Photoshop. If you're looking for a great film holder there's an American range you can get via better scanning.com. Also, when we've bought Epsons we've got bundled in the Silverfast software which I believe yields far better scans than Epsons own program. Today's DSLRs and other digital cameras offer more than was possible when I set up 1Scan.co.uk and needing to scan 200+ images per day to be economic I don't think we'd have gone down this road. Nikons and the Epsons have bulk (50 for Nikon, 20 or so for Epson) scanning options so if as a photographer you have a huge library to digitise think carefully about the time you'll be dedicating to the task. And watch more videos like this.
Hey Matt! I don't comment often on youtube but I HAD to say that what you said about the quality of the grain and how it really matters to you is exactly why I've been trying to find a better scanning option than my V300 and I was hesitant to stick with a flatbed scanner (especially for 35mm), I really appreciate hearing you talk about grain quality, and mentioning the darkroom, because that's one of the things I love most about film! Thanks again for the video :)
Thanks for sharing this Matt! I started using NLP and it’s great. One thing that I want to add is that you should crop your image so that you don’t get that border (or have any unexposed film) before processing your film with the plug-in (with color at least). You can always re-crop it after you process it.
For your light-table- try this; using flexible magnet material (which you can get on eBay) measure thrice, mark twice & cut once, a window for your negative and that material will hold your neg extremely flat!!While also light blocking everything else.
Man this seems so much better than flat bed scanning. Seeing all the issues other people had with that was pretty much the reason I’ve been avoiding home scanning, but this process seems so much easier! I already have almost all the equipment too. Gonna give it a shot!
It definitely seems easier and faster than using a dedicated scanner. I used a canon canoscan 9000f and it took FOREVER to scan, which eventually turned me away from shooting film for a while.
@@mjmj240 hi mj, I use the canoscan 9000f too. In my experience the entire process is much slower. When I digitize a negative with my x-h1 it takes literately 1s. Result: 24mpx and great dynamic range. With the canoscan I need to do a HDR scan in order to get a comparable dynamic range. That takes several minutes and still does not deliver the same amount of resolution...
The drum scanner would definitely be the superior option in quality, I’m sure. But with it comes a lot of time and cost too, so I guess it just comes down to priorities for each person. Thanks for watching! Your channel was actually just recommended to me last night, believe it or not! Good stuff. 👍🏻
@@mattdayphoto Thanks. I'm going to give this a try I think. It's nice to hear my channel was recommended to you. I've been a fan of your channel for a long time.
Interested in this too. Found this video ruclips.net/video/zy7c2ikUhcM/видео.html which explains how to do it with colour negative.. will try this. Thanks for the great video!
My Epson V600 scans of HP5+ pushed to 1600 have an identical grain structure and look as Nick's final imported image. The issue could have been the Unsharp Mask tool, which absolutely ruins an images grain by sharpening it. The Unsharp Mask check box is always ON by default. Turn it off on the Epson Scan app and enjoy perfectly scanned images. Cool video, always been curious about economic alternatives to flatbed scanners.
This is about my setup to, but I use the cheapo student-version (X-T1, old Konica macro lens, my light table is my laptop in wordpad to get a white backggound and I have the negatives floating above on stacked books). I love this process and the results. As you said, the grain looks beautiful, for me it is better than any scans I've gotten before this. I also use the student version for the post processing, RawTherapee, and I've set up a preset to not have to make the most basic adjustments. I still have to use all the sliders in reverse though (darkness becomes higlights etc, it's a neative). That was a bit frustrating at first but it's almost like second nature now. Nice video, always looking forward to updates from you!
So what you've got going on is 50x1.5=75mm, showing borders on your shot. I'm mapping out the math here to accommodate the full frame camera I have and what I need to use to get the most information when time rolls around to camera scan not just 35, but 120 and 4x5 (and hopefully 126 & 110 someday 😬). so the macro on the 35-80mm PK-fit I have would suffice despite it being manual (meaning no automatic lens calibration), and then zoom out with every format. Either that or the 50mm with a macro tube. Or maybe yet, if I ever get my hands on one, an 85mm
You’re right on point about the grain. The main reason for me to scan this way when I need it for large print. It’s the best cost-effective way to get high quality 35mm results, granted you have good digital equipment to capture it. The next step up to grab this sort of quality puts you in the zone of Hasselblad Flextight scanners, which are still crazy expensive even secondhand. AND those need regular maintenance.
A geared macro rail would make this setup perfect, you can get one off Amazon for like $25. Mark the height of the pole with a marker (for 35mm and 120), set the lens to minimum focus and do the fine focusing with the geared rail.
Started scanning with my X-H1 and Negative Lab Pro just a few weeks ago. Negative Lab Pro is 100% worth the investment! I spent hours tweaking colors in LR and PS trying to get the balance right. Negative Lap Pro is accurate within just a few clicks!
I was getting some of the texture from my light source scanning through the negative so I used 4 old LR-44 batteries (which the holder magnetized to) to raise the negative away (and thus blur out the texture) from my light table...
Processing can be done by batches too which is HUGE. You can crop one, then copy those "development settings" in LR to the rest of the images and as long as you had the holder in the same spot you wont even have to adjust. You invert multiple negatives at once with NLP, either with a synced "scene" or just auto settings (which it adjust individually for each image!).
I have been doing something similar for the past five months (Nikon D750 with old 55mm 2.8). It is crazy how much faster this is than a scan, and it is very high quality too! Better quality than when I was sending my film to Richard Photo lab for three years. I think this is an amazing time to be a film shooter and things like this are only going to help people shoot more film and help keep film alive. RIP Fuji Acros 100.
What number of frames are you looking at scanning? I looked into a lab to digitize all of my parent's 35mm negatives, but with 2000+ frames, it was 10x cheaper to buy a brand new macro lens and scan them myself. it's obviously quite time consuming though!
Stephen Holdaway I’m developing and scanning through the darkroom.com I wouldn’t send them already developed negatives to scan because that’s like $1 a frame and would add up quickly. I’m just talking about for new rolls yet to be processed.
I used to use the xe2 to scan and i hobestly thought the results were much better than the Epson once you get your exposure right and use the correct lens. Stitching together 4x5 scans got me insane resolution. Great vid man
A couple of suggestions on process. I use f8 or f11 to get more depth of field when shooting. I use the self timer rather than a cable release. And, an extension tube will allow you to cheaply focus very close with your modern lenses. I too love this approach. You can get excellent 20 megapixel scans very quickly, and for very little expense.
Inspiring video! I simply took the negative-holder from my Epson V600, built a cardboard-stand and used an iPad as lightsource. Then I took my 10 years old Canon Eos and attached the cheapest extension ring Ebay offered and I was good to go. All that didn't cost more than 10€ and the results I achieved are soooo much better than any from the Epson scanner. And yeah: buy Negative Lab Pro. Not the cheapest plugin, but worth every cent!
It's for application like this that sensor stacking images from the likes of Olympus OM-Ds, Panasonic G9, Sony A7R III or Pentax Ks can give you a lot more data by stacking images into one for a higher quality images for a more accurate rendition of the films (should work best with slow films to extract the most details). It takes extra time to do this but I think it's still faster than scanners
...and the fact that the V600 still has that bug that you need to constantly move your mouse to keep the scanning program from falling asleep mid scan.
Download the "EPSON Scan Common Updater v1.0" for your OS at the Epson V600 Support page (a Google search away) and you'll be good to go. No more pausing. This patch was posted in October of 2016.
I would also just set the sharpness in LR to 0 or adjust that setting to avoid wormy/plasticky look. I'm using the extension tube with the lens I have. I use 16mm tube with 56mmf1.2 for 120mm film, and 11mm tube with kit lens for 35mm film, the result is pretty good. The way I calculate the magnification factor is to divide the crop factor, 1/1.5 used for 35mm, 1/1.5/2 (since I'm shooting Pentax 6x7).
Dude, this is so great. I really want to get into shooting film regularly this year, and I have honestly been wondering about how I was going to deal with scanning, and that whole process has kind of been an obstacle for me, but this … this makes me really excited! Thank you so much for sharing!
Matt, I nearly got the same setup, but also a kind of black housing between lens and negative avoiding lights from all sides lowering contrast. Much better!
Hi there! I started watching this channel by recommendation from Denae & Andrew, and this last videos hooked me. I like the calm speech you have and how you get to the point without messing around. I’ll definitely stick around as subscriber. Thanks for the quality content!
Great vid. I have had exactly the same experience with the V600 and rigged up my own 35mm scanner with similar results. Yet to investigate NLP but now high on my “To Do” list. Thanks.
There seem to be many commenters who think this can only be done with a Fuji X-T3 camera! Maybe beginners, or digital beginners with a collection of film in shoe boxes they want to digitise. Guys, this can be done with any good interchangeable lens digital camera and macro lens, or a standard lens with extension tubes - Nikon, Pentax, Canon, Olympus, Leica etc.
I bought a Pentax Bellows and that legendary 55/4 macro, which has a gorgeous contrast control, and is exceptionally sharp. Of course this set up is only suitable for 35mm negs, but Thats where the Pentax 6x7 bellows and macro for the Xpan stuff (which though is 35mm film, the width of the frame something in the region of 1.85:1- just less than two frames, relates to a 6x7 neg on the long side), the results I get with that set up (and a lightbox for illumination), the results are fantastic.
THIS was the video I have been waiting to see for a while. Thanks for getting it out! I am wanting to do the same, but will probably use my fuji lenses with extension tubes to get the macro...
I did a little if just to test the idea and was blown away with the quality. I have an epson 850 Pro but had I learned of this technique before I bought it I would not have. My little Pen F high resolution mode is made for this with 80mp Raws. :)
I am a big believer in digital camera film scanning. I agree about the film grain, especially with black and white film, and the speed blows away just about any scanner that lacks a feeder. I use a setup very similar to yours but with enlarger negative holders which seem to really hold the film flat, even medium format 6x9 negatives. Some brands of film are more prone to curling. For those larger negatives I will take a few shots and then merge them in Lightroom. Thanks for the heads up on Negative Lab Pro. For color I often run the "scans" through Vuescan to get the reversal and color correction, but this might be even easier. I saw Nick's video the other day and his tube setup looks pretty interesting and compact. So glad to see some folks putting out videos on this. I went through a lot of trial and error and still find interesting nuggets in these new videos. Thanks for posting.
If you can lay hands on an older, cheap/free, Lightbox that may be scratched just place a sheet of tracing paper on the box, then the film and adjust exposure accordingly.
Thank you for this Matt! Love your channel man!! I'm pretty new to photography and especially film and your videos have helped explain so many things in perfect detail. Thank you!
Great post! Since you have the RAF file, I can suggest removing all sharpness and noise reduction from the image before going into Negative lab (or at least turn sharpness and NR to -4 in the camera). I have an X-T2 myself and I notice that it adds some sharpness and stuff, and I don't always prefer that.
I use digital camera scanning and it works well. In lightroom i made my own invert preset which i apply on import. Its easy to do and costs nothing. I tweak images as normal with the exception that the light sliders affect dark tones and vice versa.
I don't see the use of Negative Lab Pro for black & white negatives, at least. When in Lightroom you just have to drag the highlight point to the lower corner in the Tone Curve window and drag the dark point in the up corner. And, this is precious : you can save this perfectly inverted curve in the Tone Curve dropdown menu and give it a name. Aint that sweet ? And you save money.
Thanks for the tutorial. I have the same camera and am about to start self scanning at home. The one difference I would make is the threaded cable release, I would just use the mobile app. Normally its a pain to connect to to send images to your phone but it just needs a simple Bluetooth connection to release the shutter from your phone
The big question no one is asking is about the lack of Digital Ice (IR dust removal) as you had with your Epson flatbed. I'm about 80% finished building my DSLR scanning rig and was curious if the Epson scanners with DI would save a lot of post work with my dad's 30 plus year old negatives. Also could turning off Epson's 'Unsharp Mask' help with your flatbed grain issue?
Try F4. 5.6 is the sweet spot on FF but on crop it’s generally F4 in terms of center and border sharpness when crop factor is taken into account. You can see this on various MTF results across the web for Fuji stuff (and crop stuff in general). 5.6 might get you a bit more resolution on the edges but at the expense of center sharpness. YMMV for different lenses but give it a shot.
That’s a neat process Matt! As you say conventional scanning is slow time consuming process and I will certainly give this a try! Cheers and thanks for sharing.
Super glad I found this! I've been thinking of this for quite some time.. being unsure whether going for "proper" scanner or get a macro for the x-t3 I'm getting anyway. Thanks dude for taking my doubts away!!,
Thanks Matt for this! I have noticed that when scanning a 35mm film image on the XT3 or XT4, you don't get the whole image. Have you found this as well? I too am starting to scan off of a lightbox and the Valli 360 negative mount system.
Very good very helpful, just a note that I watched another RUclips vid on same system and discovered that you don’t have to do the white balance, the programme does it for you and the other guy tested it and results were better by letting negative pro do the heavy lifting. DG New Forest UK
Hi Matt. you can try to use Silver Fast scanning software together with your Epson v600. this software will simplify your workflow even more. I don't know how bad is v600 comparing to v750. but this software can do a lot for you.
Hey Matt, If you’re still seeing this, just curious what “film” setting you had set on your Fuji for shooting these? I’m getting set up with my X Pro 1 and can’t find any details on what’s the best option. Thanks!
Great video, thanks for sharing. I'm using a similar setup, but a bit more janky. I need to buy some good film holders, which would save me a ton of time. I also agree, Negative Lab Pro is awesome! One more thing to anyone reading this, be careful when using these LED light panels. If the shutter speed is too high then you will experience banding in the image.
Hi, tanks for this. Your lightpad is advertised as having a color temperature of 6500K. Isn't it a bit too blue? What do you think? If you had the choice would you go to a bit warmer one (5500k) to reach neutral white or did you choose this one on purpose? Maybe doesn't it make any difference once the picture is white balanced within the software? One additional question: between your XT3 and a Sony A7R II (42.4Mpx), would the difference in resolution be noticeable with 35mm films on reasonably big prints or is this difference marginal in real applications? Thanks.
hi, this video was amazingly educational. thank you, i’ll test my scans at home agains the ones i get from the lab and see which one is better for my workflow
Have you tried using the Fuji app to trip the shutter? I see that the cable release works, but it's still a physical connection to the camera. Wireless seems to be the way to ensure zero shake . . . ?
The Benro Tripod Head and the Artograph light Pad combined cost is more than the cost of purchasing the Epson Perfection V600 scanner. So how does this current setup compare to the scanning with Epson V600? I am a film photography student so which scanning method is the most cost-effective and time-saving?
hey matt, great video. question for you: the lomography film holders are totally unavailable and it's unclear when they're coming back. do you think i can get away with just laying the film strip directly on the light box and laying a piece of anti-newton glass on top to flatten it? thanks!
Matt Day I wanted to add something for all the amazing recommendations I’ve got here: There’s a really, really cheap adjustable copy stand kit delivered by a small germany based enterprise called „Dold Mechatronik“. Essentially, you receive all parts required to assemble the copy stand. Some parts have to be bought in addition, but you can read about that on their website. Building is said to be very easy and it should guarantee that whatever light table you use is perfectly parallel to your sensor. It was designed by Jochen Möller. A quick google search with his name plus „copy stand v5“ and „dold“ should be enough to get to their website. It comes in an english version too. :) Note: I’m in no way related to their business. I just ordered one and I’ll share my experiences with it, in case anyone’s interested.
CORRECTION: I misspoke about the base ISO! It’s 160 on the X-T3, not 200. I’m still used to the X-T2 I was using before. Also, I didn’t provide a link to the copy stand I’m using because I purchased mine on eBay. Just do some Googling and I’m sure there are similar ones out there. 👍🏻
matt! don't you get better 1:1 sensor coverage with an extension tube when using a 50mm macro for this purpose? also, the scanning mask wasn't ever back in stock! tried to order one last week... it says it's in but when you actually click to put it in the cart it won't take the order. we should crowd fund a scanning mask if they can't keep up!? can't wait anymore.
@@punkrachmaninoff I would think a macro lens would be the most ideal lens to use since that's what the lens was designed for. There's a product in development that will fill that void that the Lomography's limited stock has left. It's called the Pixl-latr. Here is a link for more info: www.kickstarter.com/projects/hamishgill/pixl-latr-helping-you-digitise-35mm-120-and-4x5-fi
Funny I have all the exact same products you listed.
I did my last ELLE magazine using 80 iso...less noise. Just got to keep your eyes on the histogram
@@mattdayphoto www.dpreview.com/articles/6519974919/macro-photography-understanding-magnification deleted my rather confusing reply, this is the best article i could find. with a 50mm macro on APS-C you get a 75mm focal equivalent (instead of the preferable 1:1 on say the infamous nikon 100mm macro lens everyone loves soo much for digitization of 35mm negatives) - hence my suggestion that you may want to attach a 12.5mm extension tube also, to get an effective 93.75mm focal length on the X-T3. think that is as close as you can get with a vintage 1:2 50mm macro lens on an APS-C. camera.
Hey Matt! Nate here, maker of Negative Lab Pro. Thanks for the great video and really thrilled that you are using it! :)
Thank YOU for making this, Nate!
yes, capture one 12 plug-in would be absolutely insane! PLS!
@MrBusytimmy As I understand it, Capture One only allows very simple plugin integrations at the moment, like exporting files or "roundtrip" with other standalone programs. It doesn't have the deep integration that the Lightroom Plugin SDK has (which is necessary to make Negative Lab Pro work the way it does). But it's something I'll keep on my radar!
Looks awesome - I'd tried ColorPerfect in the past, but the UI is atrocious and it's still outside the Lightroom workflow. I'm impressed at what you've done with the Lua SDK; when I looked into making something along these lines in the last year, the API exposed seemed quite limited (eg. no way to set curves or read pixel data)
@@StephenHoldaway Awesome! And yes, the API itself is pretty limited... had to build a lot from scratch!
Thank you for your video, your suggested setup worked great. My mother's photos from about 70 years ago were destroyed in a house fire a number of years ago, but fortunately the negatives were in a different location. I got hold of the negatives and with your recommended setup I was able to get great digital copies of them . Some of the pictures I had never seen before. My mom has passed on, so the pictures were even more special to me. Thanks
Hi. Great video. A few suggestions to improve the workflow:
1. Save a custom white balance in-camera of the light table itself so that you don't have to use the LR picker tool on each photo.
2. You can invert the negative shots by inverting the Tone Curve in LR. To do this, press the Edit Point Curve button at the bottom right corner of the Tone Curve and then switch the curve points. Black goes up and white goes down. You can even save a preset and apply it to all negatives taken in a session. So no need for 3rd party plugins.
3. Use tethering in Lightroom so you don't have to transfer RAW files from the camera which will save you a ton of time.
4. Of course, shoot at the sensor's native ISO, but be wary that for some cameras it's not always the lowest ISO setting.
5. Turn off your camera's noise reduction and sharpening settings
6. Use electronic shutter instead of mechanical shutter to avoid shutter shock
7. If your camera is not a Fuji and you can't use a mechanical cable release, either buy a digital one compatible with your camera, or use a 2-second timer, every camera has this feature built-in.
8. Always use a macro lens and find out the best aperture for the lens (search online). It's usually somewhere between 5.6-8 anyway. Old film macro lenses are excellent, the Micro-Nikkor line-up from Nikon is a great example.
Hope this helps, best of luck!
i think he knows what he's doing...
Thanks, that was useful.
Thanks
Just loved this. I joined a tech company 45 years ago, as the only keen photographer in the unit I was given the task of duplicating sets of 35mm slides. I used an Ohnar device which fitted my SLR in place of a lens. Here in the UK I could only copy slides in summer, the thing had a tiny aperture and of course no AWB or Photoshop in those days. Around 20 years ago I set up a photo, slide and negative scanning service and looked at ways of scanning commercially. Thankfully Nikon were still making Coolscans so we invested in those. To this day I think I have Britains largest collection of Nikon 35mm scanners. We've also used Epsons too.
I'd make a couple of suggestions. Dust is the enemy of scanning and sadly on mono film you can't use Digital ICE, so an anti static cloth, soft brush and air blower might save you hours in Photoshop. If you're looking for a great film holder there's an American range you can get via better scanning.com. Also, when we've bought Epsons we've got bundled in the Silverfast software which I believe yields far better scans than Epsons own program. Today's DSLRs and other digital cameras offer more than was possible when I set up 1Scan.co.uk and needing to scan 200+ images per day to be economic I don't think we'd have gone down this road. Nikons and the Epsons have bulk (50 for Nikon, 20 or so for Epson) scanning options so if as a photographer you have a huge library to digitise think carefully about the time you'll be dedicating to the task.
And watch more videos like this.
Hey Matt! I don't comment often on youtube but I HAD to say that what you said about the quality of the grain and how it really matters to you is exactly why I've been trying to find a better scanning option than my V300 and I was hesitant to stick with a flatbed scanner (especially for 35mm), I really appreciate hearing you talk about grain quality, and mentioning the darkroom, because that's one of the things I love most about film! Thanks again for the video :)
Thanks for sharing this Matt! I started using NLP and it’s great. One thing that I want to add is that you should crop your image so that you don’t get that border (or have any unexposed film) before processing your film with the plug-in (with color at least). You can always re-crop it after you process it.
Subscribed! And thank You Matt for speaking at human speed and no stupid background noises or drums!
For your light-table- try this; using flexible magnet material (which you can get on eBay) measure thrice, mark twice & cut once, a window for your negative and that material will hold your neg extremely flat!!While also light blocking everything else.
Man this seems so much better than flat bed scanning. Seeing all the issues other people had with that was pretty much the reason I’ve been avoiding home scanning, but this process seems so much easier! I already have almost all the equipment too. Gonna give it a shot!
It definitely seems easier and faster than using a dedicated scanner. I used a canon canoscan 9000f and it took FOREVER to scan, which eventually turned me away from shooting film for a while.
Thanks for watching! Give it a try!
@@mjmj240 hi mj, I use the canoscan 9000f too. In my experience the entire process is much slower. When I digitize a negative with my x-h1 it takes literately 1s. Result: 24mpx and great dynamic range. With the canoscan I need to do a HDR scan in order to get a comparable dynamic range. That takes several minutes and still does not deliver the same amount of resolution...
Very interesting video. I’ve never thought about doing this before. How does the quality compare to something like a drum scanner?
The drum scanner would definitely be the superior option in quality, I’m sure. But with it comes a lot of time and cost too, so I guess it just comes down to priorities for each person. Thanks for watching! Your channel was actually just recommended to me last night, believe it or not! Good stuff. 👍🏻
@@mattdayphoto Thanks. I'm going to give this a try I think.
It's nice to hear my channel was recommended to you. I've been a fan of your channel for a long time.
@@jamiewindsor I love both your channels, they are definitely in my top 5 on RUclips
I'm really curious about the color negative scan video now! :)
Coming soon! Thanks for watching!
Interested in this too. Found this video ruclips.net/video/zy7c2ikUhcM/видео.html which explains how to do it with colour negative.. will try this. Thanks for the great video!
My Epson V600 scans of HP5+ pushed to 1600 have an identical grain structure and look as Nick's final imported image. The issue could have been the Unsharp Mask tool, which absolutely ruins an images grain by sharpening it. The Unsharp Mask check box is always ON by default. Turn it off on the Epson Scan app and enjoy perfectly scanned images. Cool video, always been curious about economic alternatives to flatbed scanners.
This is about my setup to, but I use the cheapo student-version (X-T1, old Konica macro lens, my light table is my laptop in wordpad to get a white backggound and I have the negatives floating above on stacked books). I love this process and the results. As you said, the grain looks beautiful, for me it is better than any scans I've gotten before this. I also use the student version for the post processing, RawTherapee, and I've set up a preset to not have to make the most basic adjustments. I still have to use all the sliders in reverse though (darkness becomes higlights etc, it's a neative). That was a bit frustrating at first but it's almost like second nature now. Nice video, always looking forward to updates from you!
Thanks for watching! That sounds like a good setup too!
So what you've got going on is 50x1.5=75mm, showing borders on your shot. I'm mapping out the math here to accommodate the full frame camera I have and what I need to use to get the most information when time rolls around to camera scan not just 35, but 120 and 4x5 (and hopefully 126 & 110 someday 😬). so the macro on the 35-80mm PK-fit I have would suffice despite it being manual (meaning no automatic lens calibration), and then zoom out with every format. Either that or the 50mm with a macro tube. Or maybe yet, if I ever get my hands on one, an 85mm
You’re right on point about the grain. The main reason for me to scan this way when I need it for large print. It’s the best cost-effective way to get high quality 35mm results, granted you have good digital equipment to capture it.
The next step up to grab this sort of quality puts you in the zone of Hasselblad Flextight scanners, which are still crazy expensive even secondhand. AND those need regular maintenance.
For sure! Really happy with this setup now that I've streamlined things and have gotten a rhythm going.
It is good to see others tackling this issue using their own ideas!
A geared macro rail would make this setup perfect, you can get one off Amazon for like $25. Mark the height of the pole with a marker (for 35mm and 120), set the lens to minimum focus and do the fine focusing with the geared rail.
Oooh, good idea!
What's a geared rail?
@@ihmintz Macro rail, it's got gears for fine adjustment.
that canon lens your using is actually an exceptional piece of glass. I have the same lens. It is sharp across the board.
Started scanning with my X-H1 and Negative Lab Pro just a few weeks ago. Negative Lab Pro is 100% worth the investment! I spent hours tweaking colors in LR and PS trying to get the balance right. Negative Lap Pro is accurate within just a few clicks!
It's a game changer, for sure! Thanks for watching!
photo taken on ilford film, then shot again with a Fuji sensor... nice...
I was getting some of the texture from my light source scanning through the negative so I used 4 old LR-44 batteries (which the holder magnetized to) to raise the negative away (and thus blur out the texture) from my light table...
Processing can be done by batches too which is HUGE. You can crop one, then copy those "development settings" in LR to the rest of the images and as long as you had the holder in the same spot you wont even have to adjust. You invert multiple negatives at once with NLP, either with a synced "scene" or just auto settings (which it adjust individually for each image!).
Such a game changer!
I have been doing something similar for the past five months (Nikon D750 with old 55mm 2.8). It is crazy how much faster this is than a scan, and it is very high quality too! Better quality than when I was sending my film to Richard Photo lab for three years. I think this is an amazing time to be a film shooter and things like this are only going to help people shoot more film and help keep film alive. RIP Fuji Acros 100.
Thanks for watching! Couldn't agree more!
This is neat and I’m just watching because I’m a fan but I’m having a lab scan all my stuff this year. This looks like a ton of work. Respect Matt.
What number of frames are you looking at scanning? I looked into a lab to digitize all of my parent's 35mm negatives, but with 2000+ frames, it was 10x cheaper to buy a brand new macro lens and scan them myself. it's obviously quite time consuming though!
Stephen Holdaway I’m developing and scanning through the darkroom.com I wouldn’t send them already developed negatives to scan because that’s like $1 a frame and would add up quickly. I’m just talking about for new rolls yet to be processed.
That setup looks sleek. Much more compact than a scanner and faster! As always thanks for keeping the content fresh and relevant!
Thanks for watching!
I used to use the xe2 to scan and i hobestly thought the results were much better than the Epson once you get your exposure right and use the correct lens. Stitching together 4x5 scans got me insane resolution. Great vid man
Thanks for watching!
A couple of suggestions on process. I use f8 or f11 to get more depth of field when shooting. I use the self timer rather than a cable release. And, an extension tube will allow you to cheaply focus very close with your modern lenses. I too love this approach. You can get excellent 20 megapixel scans very quickly, and for very little expense.
Yes, self timer or a shutter remote control. Don't all DSLRs have a remote available? My Pentax's have, it didn't cost a lot.
Inspiring video! I simply took the negative-holder from my Epson V600, built a cardboard-stand and used an iPad as lightsource. Then I took my 10 years old Canon Eos and attached the cheapest extension ring Ebay offered and I was good to go. All that didn't cost more than 10€ and the results I achieved are soooo much better than any from the Epson scanner.
And yeah: buy Negative Lab Pro. Not the cheapest plugin, but worth every cent!
It's for application like this that sensor stacking images from the likes of Olympus OM-Ds, Panasonic G9, Sony A7R III or Pentax Ks can give you a lot more data by stacking images into one for a higher quality images for a more accurate rendition of the films (should work best with slow films to extract the most details). It takes extra time to do this but I think it's still faster than scanners
That's a good idea!
...and the fact that the V600 still has that bug that you need to constantly move your mouse to keep the scanning program from falling asleep mid scan.
There's an update/section somewhere that helps prevent that. I used to have that problem but not anymore.
@@noquarter1983 Where?? I need that so bad haha
Uninstall the Epson software and reinstall it. It should fix the problem.
@@zachparks213 Yes! That drove me nuts! If I remember correctly, it was not a problem in windows, only mac. Which OS were you using?
Download the "EPSON Scan Common Updater v1.0" for your OS at the Epson V600 Support page (a Google search away) and you'll be good to go. No more pausing. This patch was posted in October of 2016.
I would also just set the sharpness in LR to 0 or adjust that setting to avoid wormy/plasticky look. I'm using the extension tube with the lens I have. I use 16mm tube with 56mmf1.2 for 120mm film, and 11mm tube with kit lens for 35mm film, the result is pretty good. The way I calculate the magnification factor is to divide the crop factor, 1/1.5 used for 35mm, 1/1.5/2 (since I'm shooting Pentax 6x7).
Thomas Qin what focal length do you use the kit lens at for the scanning?
@@samsstreets8684 18mm for 135 film. It will have 0.69 magnification with 11mm extension tube.
@@samsstreets8684 you can also use 10-24mm at 24mm, 23mmf1.4, 18-135mm at 18mm, with 11mm extension tube. Just google Fuji extension tube chart.
Thomas Qin thanks man, really useful.
Dude, this is so great. I really want to get into shooting film regularly this year, and I have honestly been wondering about how I was going to deal with scanning, and that whole process has kind of been an obstacle for me, but this … this makes me really excited! Thank you so much for sharing!
Thanks for watching! Glad to hear that!
Thank you for this! I've been trying to find a way to scan my negatives without having to buy an expensive scanner. This helped out a lot!
Thanks for watching! Glad to hear that.
Matt, I nearly got the same setup, but also a kind of black housing between lens and negative avoiding lights from all sides lowering contrast. Much better!
You could also set the camera timer to take the shot instead of the shutter release. ;)
Excellent video Matt, really enjoyed it.
I've been doing my "scanning" with a 6D and a 100mm f2.8L Macro and a light board, works like a charm
Thanks for watching!
Hi there! I started watching this channel by recommendation from Denae & Andrew, and this last videos hooked me. I like the calm speech you have and how you get to the point without messing around. I’ll definitely stick around as subscriber.
Thanks for the quality content!
Thanks for watching! Hope you enjoy the other videos!
Great vid. I have had exactly the same experience with the V600 and rigged up my own 35mm scanner with similar results. Yet to investigate NLP but now high on my “To Do” list. Thanks.
This is awesome! You answered my question about the macro lens alternative (without having to ask). Thank you for sharing
This is a game changer! I can totally relate to you on the need for a faster workflow, I can’t wait to try this. Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
Do you have a link to the copy stand?
yes pls
I use one from Kaiser, in Europe those are a bit easier to get a hold of.
Sorry, I picked mine up on eBay so I don't have a link for that.
Seems to be a CS500 medium copy stand, which sadly enough isn’t listed anywhere on a US site
@@johnvr1 Not sure it is. Looks different no? What about this one? Would that do the trick? www.checkfrank.be/falcon-eyes-copy-stand-cs-730#tabs
There seem to be many commenters who think this can only be done with a Fuji X-T3 camera! Maybe beginners, or digital beginners with a collection of film in shoe boxes they want to digitise. Guys, this can be done with any good interchangeable lens digital camera and macro lens, or a standard lens with extension tubes - Nikon, Pentax, Canon, Olympus, Leica etc.
I bought a Pentax Bellows and that legendary 55/4 macro, which has a gorgeous contrast control, and is exceptionally sharp. Of course this set up is only suitable for 35mm negs, but Thats where the Pentax 6x7 bellows and macro for the Xpan stuff (which though is 35mm film, the width of the frame something in the region of 1.85:1- just less than two frames, relates to a 6x7 neg on the long side), the results I get with that set up (and a lightbox for illumination), the results are fantastic.
This is great. I also use a V600 and have been trying all kinds of weird stuff to get a good 35mm scan with no success.
I curious of the brand of the copy stand and where it may be available. It's small and compact for the purpose.
Very useful video Matt. Thanks a lot!
Very thought provoking video, Matt. Thank you. It boils down to the quality benefits. A side by side against a V600 scan would be super useful.
Thanks for watching! I'll do a side-by-side in the next video.
THIS was the video I have been waiting to see for a while. Thanks for getting it out! I am wanting to do the same, but will probably use my fuji lenses with extension tubes to get the macro...
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for putting this together as it is something I've been thinking about needed to do for a while and now I can.
Thanks for watching!
Matt, this video is amazing.
I did a little if just to test the idea and was blown away with the quality. I have an epson 850 Pro but had I learned of this technique before I bought it I would not have. My little Pen F high resolution mode is made for this with 80mp Raws. :)
Damn! That's awesome!
I am a big believer in digital camera film scanning. I agree about the film grain, especially with black and white film, and the speed blows away just about any scanner that lacks a feeder. I use a setup very similar to yours but with enlarger negative holders which seem to really hold the film flat, even medium format 6x9 negatives. Some brands of film are more prone to curling. For those larger negatives I will take a few shots and then merge them in Lightroom. Thanks for the heads up on Negative Lab Pro. For color I often run the "scans" through Vuescan to get the reversal and color correction, but this might be even easier. I saw Nick's video the other day and his tube setup looks pretty interesting and compact. So glad to see some folks putting out videos on this. I went through a lot of trial and error and still find interesting nuggets in these new videos. Thanks for posting.
Thanks for watching!
If you can lay hands on an older, cheap/free, Lightbox that may be scratched just place a sheet of tracing paper on the box, then the film and adjust exposure accordingly.
I was waiting for that video! Thanks Matt !
Thanks for watching!
Yes! Thank you!
IDK about the Fuji X-T3, but the DSLRs I have owned have come with a remote shutter release. That is even steadier than using a release cable.
Thank you for this Matt! Love your channel man!! I'm pretty new to photography and especially film and your videos have helped explain so many things in perfect detail. Thank you!
Great post! Since you have the RAF file, I can suggest removing all sharpness and noise reduction from the image before going into Negative lab (or at least turn sharpness and NR to -4 in the camera). I have an X-T2 myself and I notice that it adds some sharpness and stuff, and I don't always prefer that.
Thanks for watching and for the tip!
I use digital camera scanning and it works well. In lightroom i made my own invert preset which i apply on import. Its easy to do and costs nothing. I tweak images as normal with the exception that the light sliders affect dark tones and vice versa.
Nice! Helps to have your own custom workflow down to a science.
I don't see the use of Negative Lab Pro for black & white negatives, at least. When in Lightroom you just have to drag the highlight point to the lower corner in the Tone Curve window and drag the dark point in the up corner. And, this is precious : you can save this perfectly inverted curve in the Tone Curve dropdown menu and give it a name. Aint that sweet ? And you save money.
Thanks for the tutorial. I have the same camera and am about to start self scanning at home. The one difference I would make is the threaded cable release, I would just use the mobile app. Normally its a pain to connect to to send images to your phone but it just needs a simple Bluetooth connection to release the shutter from your phone
You can get a hand-held remote shutter release for modern DSLRs, at least you can for mine.
Beyond stoked after seeing this. Can't wait to get my hands on a similar setup and start scannin' them pix. Much appreciated!
Thanks for watching!
Very well done & beautifully shot. Thank you for your work you put into this!
Thanks. It struck me as odd that you did not mention, or I didn't hear, which side of the negative should be up when installing the film strip.
Hello, Matt. How is the quality compared to the results from V600?
The big question no one is asking is about the lack of Digital Ice (IR dust removal) as you had with your Epson flatbed. I'm about 80% finished building my DSLR scanning rig and was curious if the Epson scanners with DI would save a lot of post work with my dad's 30 plus year old negatives.
Also could turning off Epson's 'Unsharp Mask' help with your flatbed grain issue?
Try F4. 5.6 is the sweet spot on FF but on crop it’s generally F4 in terms of center and border sharpness when crop factor is taken into account. You can see this on various MTF results across the web for Fuji stuff (and crop stuff in general). 5.6 might get you a bit more resolution on the edges but at the expense of center sharpness. YMMV for different lenses but give it a shot.
Thanks for the tip!
I will try it with Fujifilm X-T100.
Thanks @Mattday for great video.
Another great video Matt. 👍🏻
That’s a neat process Matt! As you say conventional scanning is slow time consuming process and I will certainly give this a try! Cheers and thanks for sharing.
Super glad I found this! I've been thinking of this for quite some time.. being unsure whether going for "proper" scanner or get a macro for the x-t3 I'm getting anyway. Thanks dude for taking my doubts away!!,
What a splendid fellow for sharing all this knowledge and skill. Thank you very much you are a good egg.
Thanks Matt for this! I have noticed that when scanning a 35mm film image on the XT3 or XT4, you don't get the whole image. Have you found this as well? I too am starting to scan off of a lightbox and the Valli 360 negative mount system.
Scanning with a camera is like gaming on a laptop. It's cute.
Great!! Thanks from Brazil for sharing!!👍
Great info Matt, well presented as usual!
Thanks for watching!
Very good very helpful, just a note that I watched another RUclips vid on same system and discovered that you don’t have to do the white balance, the programme does it for you and the other guy tested it and results were better by letting negative pro do the heavy lifting. DG New Forest UK
good to know! Appreciate you sharing that!
spent all last night looking at this hoping you’d do something on it - thank you x
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for sharing! As a V600 user I have had a similar experience with 35mm scans. The slow scanning process is also a bit of a pain.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks! Your video is just what I was looking for. Nice job!
you can also use a 2 second timer instead of a cable release
You can make negative colors by inverting the tone curve, if you don't want to use the app.
Very true! But I think the plug-in does a great job at color correction in a fraction of the time.
Hi Matt. you can try to use Silver Fast scanning software together with your Epson v600. this software will simplify your workflow even more. I don't know how bad is v600 comparing to v750. but this software can do a lot for you.
Hey Matt,
If you’re still seeing this, just curious what “film” setting you had set on your Fuji for shooting these? I’m getting set up with my X Pro 1 and can’t find any details on what’s the best option.
Thanks!
Great video, thanks for sharing. I'm using a similar setup, but a bit more janky. I need to buy some good film holders, which would save me a ton of time. I also agree, Negative Lab Pro is awesome! One more thing to anyone reading this, be careful when using these LED light panels. If the shutter speed is too high then you will experience banding in the image.
I’ve been thinking about doing this. Great to see how you do your workflow.
Hi, tanks for this.
Your lightpad is advertised as having a color temperature of 6500K. Isn't it a bit too blue? What do you think?
If you had the choice would you go to a bit warmer one (5500k) to reach neutral white or did you choose this one on purpose?
Maybe doesn't it make any difference once the picture is white balanced within the software?
One additional question: between your XT3 and a Sony A7R II (42.4Mpx), would the difference in resolution be noticeable with 35mm films on reasonably big prints or is this difference marginal in real applications?
Thanks.
That was awesome. I am grateful for having an Epson flatbed, but I'll admit - I find the scanning pretty tedious, with a challenging workflow.
my 1 cent addition is to use the electronic shutter to reduce camera shake even further
Good idea! Thanks for watching!
hi, this video was amazingly educational. thank you, i’ll test my scans at home agains the ones i get from the lab and see which one is better for my workflow
Thanks for watching!
Oraoz
That's pretty cool! Although Fuji's app isn't the greatest, if you don't want any movement at all, you can use Fuji's app as shutter release.
Gonna try that, for sure.
That's what I do!
Have you tried using the Fuji app to trip the shutter? I see that the cable release works, but it's still a physical connection to the camera. Wireless seems to be the way to ensure zero shake . . . ?
I have not! I'll have to give that a try.
The Benro Tripod Head and the Artograph light Pad combined cost is more than the cost of purchasing the Epson Perfection V600 scanner. So how does this current setup compare to the scanning with Epson V600? I am a film photography student so which scanning method is the most cost-effective and time-saving?
You could also use Camera Remote to trigger the shutter. Even less shaking :-)
That's true! I use the cable release since I already had one on hand.
Have you tried using a macro extension like the JJC 11 & 16 mm tube extender? According to their charts the 18-55mm @wide will give you 0,97x
Indeed. He is not utilising nearly half of his sensor area. I got a set of used Vivitar extension tubes (in mint condition) off Ebay for about $15.
hey matt, great video. question for you: the lomography film holders are totally unavailable and it's unclear when they're coming back. do you think i can get away with just laying the film strip directly on the light box and laying a piece of anti-newton glass on top to flatten it? thanks!
This is exactly what I needed rn! Thanks, Matt
Thanks for watching!
Matt Day
I wanted to add something for all the amazing recommendations I’ve got here:
There’s a really, really cheap adjustable copy stand kit delivered by a small germany based enterprise called „Dold Mechatronik“.
Essentially, you receive all parts required to assemble the copy stand. Some parts have to be bought in addition, but you can read about that on their website. Building is said to be very easy and it should guarantee that whatever light table you use is perfectly parallel to your sensor.
It was designed by Jochen Möller. A quick google search with his name plus „copy stand v5“ and „dold“ should be enough to get to their website. It comes in an english version too. :)
Note: I’m in no way related to their business. I just ordered one and I’ll share my experiences with it, in case anyone’s interested.