Putting extra express tracks on an existing line would cost about the same as building an entirely new line, and an entirely new line has the benefit of making more different journeys possible. I guess that's why the entirely new line always wins out for budget funding.
Not entirely true. The most expensive thing (by far) when building an underground railway is not the tracks, but the stations. Building an express railway would mean fewer stations, making it theoretically considerably cheaper than building a brand-new slow line. That of course doesn’t necessarily make it worthwhile, as the benefits of such a line are far fewer, too.
An entirely new line in Britain would be impossible, and doubly impossible in London, a city that hates building new stuff in a country that doubly hates building things anyway, and when it does so, overruns by multiples in time and cost. So we can say for certain that this will never happen in this universe.
@@KasabianFan44 The Elizabeth line is a new line but it basically only serves existing stations. It also shows that using an existing station can often still mean as much work as a new one.
Howard Collins, the Tube boss turned Sydney Trains head, said of ST’s maintenance that it was “open-heart surgery on a patient who’s still trying to play a game of tennis”. No doubt most rapid-transit and commuter rail systems are very much the same.
That's why they have a huge amount of delays! plus the mess with lines overcrowed with trains where if 1 train brakes wich there is 99% to happen it will always compromise those railworks ,thats why on the weekends when they make those closures there is no win-win
In 1991, I was a foot messenger for an advertising company, and took hard-copy adverts in various stages of completion to the places which worked on them. I had to get them to and from the different places around London as quickly as possible, and so I learned the transport network concerning my routes completely, so that I could hop off a tube train at one station, use an interconnecting node to make it as seamless as possible, even making use of buses where viable. I went back to London a few years ago, to find what felt like a wholly new city laid over the remnants of the one I'd only left behind a decade or so prior, it was quite unsettling, to say the least!
Nodding my head as I read this. I was a studio junior for an advertising company based in Tottenham Court Road in the early 80s doing the same dtuff as you. All praise Letraset. My only lasting impression ( that I'm prepared to regaill here) was that the fillet O fish stayed warmer twice as long as a Big Mac.
In 1989 I was working in the West End commuting from Edgware end of the northern line. There were quite a few strikes that year and on one occasion, I was faced with the need of getting to work using the 113 bus which would have taken ages. So when I saw the station gates slightly open, I thought I'd check to see if there were actually trains running that day. What I found was, that they were indeed running a limited service to the West End, stopping only at Golders Green, Camden Town, and then all stations. Got me there in half the time it was brilliant. Although slightly unnerving to be going so fast through all those other stations.
Often when there are strikes at stations, the Northern Line will skip stations that only have lift access, giving a really fast journey! Hampstead, Belsize Park, Chalk Farm, Mornington Crescent and Goodge Street all get skipped...
@@chrisadye1590 West Ashfield is the imaginary station used at London Underground's training school at Ashfield House, nearest real station is West Kensington. Another made up station seen in Piccadlly Third Stop 1960 was Mayfair.
Some fast Bakerloo trains ran as an express service not stopping at all stations and in the late 1940's the Ted Heath Orchestra celebrated this with the piece 'Bakerloo Non-Stop' their musical answer to Billy Strayhorn's 1941 composition for Duke Ellington's Ochestra 'Take The 'A' Train' an express service on the New York Subway.
I believe there was also some non-stopping on the Northern Line (using loops at Brent) and the Piccadilly Line in the early days. There was a play in 1928 called "Passing Brompton Road" after the Piccadilly Line platform announcements.
@@tomburnham5119, to the best of my knowledge, the passing loop at Brent (now Brent Cross) was built but never used, with the tracks eventually being lifted.
@@mbrady2329 "Rails Through the Clay" (Jackson & Croome) says the loop at Brent was used by one train in each direction from about 1927 until 22 Aug 1936. You could still see where the extra tracks used to be in the 1970s, at least. It does seem a lot of effort for a very marginal improvement!
Love that 'Hobbs End's. Hobbs End was, of course, the mythical tube station featured in that 1968 Hammer classic sci fi horror film, 'Quatermass and the Pit'.
So did I! I know that film well. As I'm sure you know, in the film the name 'Hobbs End' started out as 'Hob's End', 'Hob' being the name of a demon. Hobgoblins etc.
The way we work in New York (I do say we as an MTA employee) is we didn't build four tunnels, but one large one, wide enough to hold all the tracks at once. In some places, the tunnels are double decked, with ether the express and local tracks on separate levels or the directions of travel separated. this is helped by the wide, grid pattern our streets are laid out on in manhattan.
What about the Metropolitan Line? The Finchley Road to Wembley Park section skips five Jubilee Line stations, and there are fast services to the more distant stations. Not separate lines, the express services exist
Having grown up in Wembley in the 1950s and 60's Wembley Park was my local station. I always waited for the Metropolitan train at Baker Street or Finchley Road in place of taking the Bakerloo in those days. I was always impressed how, if the two lines arrived simultaneously arrived at Wembley Park or Finchley Road, the drivers would wait until those who wanted to switch trains could easily do so.
@@davidfeiler8896They frequently do that at Hammersmith and Acton Town as well, though it does obviously depend on both trains being aware that that is happening. (I’ve had many instances where the Piccadilly line train would close its doors just as a District line train arrived behind it!)
@@davidfeiler8896 Interesting, when i was using the District/ Dilly interchange at Acton Town a few years ago the exact opposite always seemed to happen.
From what I can see, these are now peak-only, rather than being part of the standard service pattern as they were a few years ago, which is slightly different. That said, the Met _is_ the express service alongside the Jubilee, skipping Neasden, Dollis Hill, Willesden Green, Kilburn, West Hampstead, Swiss Cottage and St John's Wood ... and the Piccadilly _is_ the express service alongside the District, skipping Chiswick Park, Stamford Brook, Ravenscourt Park and West Kensington. I also wonder if a greater density of suburban rail coverage may have obviated some of the need for express Underground services.
Yes, you mentioned three examples of express routes - though, to be pedantic, the Met is not just an express between Baker Street and Finchley Road, but also onwards to Harrow-on-the-Hill and Moor Park (where at times the Met is an express line to itself). Paris took the idea of express lines when building the RER - and I often used it, hoping that one day Crossrail would happen. They have chosen to invest further in those express lines than London - a case of different financial decisions.
You could also argue that the Fenchurch St (C2C) line provides an express alternative to the District Line between West Ham, Barking and Upminster - though in that case the Express line was built fast and they ran underground trains alongside it later!
Yes! But from Upminster to Tower Hill in effect. Saves 15-20 minutes taking the c2c to Fenchurch then walking to Tower Hill rather than sitting on the District line all the way. Limehouse is also useful to get the DLR to Bank, then the northern line is straight up the escalators.
Another interesting video which brings out more questions than answers. I regularly used the subway in New York where the original construction in Manhattan under the long straight Avenues enabled a 4 track trunk system from the outset. They are certainly expresses as they rattle through stations non-stop. London did experiment with trains missing stops which proved unworkable. The other example which you didn't mention, as part of the Metropolitan line of the 1960 electrification, was the construction of a pair of fast lines was from Harrow to north of Moor Park by 1962. This enabled both the Metropolitan and British Railway services through to Amersham and Aylesbury to be speed up and extra trains for Watford on the slow lines.
Nerd fact: The New York elevated lines on Manhattan ran a third track as an express line. Express trains ran south in the morning commute. Then north in the afternoon commute. At the express stations the track was raised another level to make room for the platforms. I don't know if this still exists in Brooklyn or Bronx for the surviving elevated sections.
Unfortunately no the Brooklyn and Bronx elevated lines weren’t built that way. I fact most of the middle tracks were used for storage rather than express services.
@@ayindestevens6152 It's confusing. In Brooklyn the B (express) and the Q (not) are on the same route. The stations where the B stops have a central platform for the Q trains to stop on. The parallel ( a couple miles to the west) D line is built the same way, but doesn't have an express version today. But if a train is delayed and the next one is close enough a D might announce it's only making express stops. The extra express tracks are also used to get around a stalled train etc., and the express tunnels are used to store trains inside when there's a blizzard, in which case there is obviously no express service. Also express tracks are used to send an empty train or service train someplace. They add a lot of flexibility.
A section of the 7 train in Corona still operates like this, with the express track raised to another level at 111th Street to make room for lead tracks to the 7 train's main yard. As for surviving elevated lines in Brooklyn and the Bronx they were designed with third tracks from the outset so express stations were built with 2 island platforms on the same level by default. Another thing to bear in mind with the raised third tracks in Manhattan is they existed for the most part as appendages to existing, much older 2-track elevated lines. As such the raised platforms to support express trains were less an intentional design and more them trying to make them work on a line not originally designed to support express service.
@@LuckyFlanker13 I don't think it is actually. The weird rush hour service runs express north of Church Avenue only, so the third track south of Church Ave is still mostly unused outside of the bit at Kings Highway, where trains terminate sometimes for capacity reasons.
Should the part of Jubilee between Canning Town and Stratford be an express service to the DLR as well? They run the literally alongside each other. One skips, and one local. I mean, that might even be the nearest one to the concept of "express line" tbh.
@@ayindestevens6152 Pretty sure that's how most US public transport works now, tap to pay with fare capping (unless its some specific special route or something).
New York built the local and express lines at the same time. More expensive in early 20th century dollars but paying for themselves now. The 2nd Avenue line does not include express lines as such - very expensive in early 21st century dollars.
Something I feel is relevant is the outer Metropolitan line services which do have true fasts with the tracks to accommodate. I guess they fit into the Metropolitan building like a regular surface railway and not an underground line
Great video Jago 👏🏾 I soptted some comments which complement your observations of the Piccadilly Line running express to the District Line between Hammersmith and Acton Town, the Metropolitan Line running express to the Jubilee Line between Finchley Road and Wembley Park, and also the Jubilee Line running express to the Docklands Light Railway between Stratford and Canning Town, and the C2C running express to the District Line between West Ham and Upminster. Although not train-related, this did remind me of express bus services in London, e.g. there used to be an X15 route that ran from East Ham, and there were Green Line routes that ran on the A roads from central London (e.g. along the Barking Road). There must be other examples from across London.
I love the way you used West Ashfield of Ashfield House, Hobbs Lane from Quatermass and the Pit and Walford East from Eastenders. One is a driver training unit and the others being made up for TV & Cinema. Brilliance 👋👋👋
Love the “Hobbs End” reference in your imaginary tube line graphic! Anyone else out there remember the sci-fi Hammer classic, “Quartermass and the Pit?”
During Covid I went on a Victoria line train that skipped more than half of the stations between Euston and Stockwell. That was quite an express. Anyway, I find South Acton dangling downwards very disturbing 😲 You should totally do New York. It's great.
I worked on London underground from 1957 to 2001 and up to the Early Sixties the District ran " Semi Fast" trains Non- Stopping at certain Stations also at that time the Distict ran to Hounslow West, so , Wimbledon service Non Stopped " West Brompton, the Ealing Broadway Service Non stop South Kensington & Gloucester Road and the Hounslow Trains Non Stop Ravenscourt Park and Stamford Brook, my memory cannot remember what Station/ Stations the Richmond Service did not stop at. From South Kensington to Gloucester Road it was " Double Tracked to provide for the Non- Stopping of the Ealing Broadway service, unfortunately the whole idea did not work very well as very often the " Semi Fasts" got blocked behind other trains so it was discontinued by the Mid Sixties.
Jago, you mentioned that you have never been to New York. To get an idea of the what it is like on the subway lines, I suggest the RUclips channel “Welcome to an experience”. They have route videos, most taken from the front of the subway train. I would recommend the #4 line (former IRT line) that runs from Brooklyn to the north end of the Bronx via Manhattan. It is slightly edited but gives a good feel of the complexity and variety of construction, from at grade, to true subway, to elevated, also includes express running in Manhattan.
Could you do a video on transit-oriented-development around existing stations? Especially Kidbrooke. But you could look at Southall, Hayes & Harlington, Croydon, Sutton, Nine Elms, Elephant & Castle, Lewisham, Deptford Bridge, Woolwich, Plumsted, Beckton Riverside, Barking Riverside, Rainham (Beam Park), Barking, llford, Stratford, Wembley Park, Walthamstow Central, Tottenham Hale, Meridian Water, Brent Cross Town, All the Actons, Cheshunt, Luton Airport Parkway, Welwyn Garden City, Carpenders Park, Chelmsford, Queens Park/Kilburn High Road, Canada Water, Tolworth, Wandsworth (Gasworks), Neasden, and more.
Surprised you never mentioned the slow/fast lines on the Metropolitan itself beyond Wembley Park, allowing fast and slow Amersham & Chesham services. Good to see Hobbs End get a mention though! Watch out for dead Martians!
Just a note here: The express tracks in Chicago are not in the subway, but on the elevated structure. The main line north of the Loop is four tracks wide as it handles Red Line trains from the subway through to Howard, Brown Line trains from the Loop to Kimball, and Purple Line trains from Howard to Linden, with weekday nonstop Purple Line service between Howard and the Loop. It used to be even busier, with the Chicago North Shore & Milwaukee interurban line that ran from the loop to either the Skokie Valley Line (a remnant of which is the Skokie Swift, or Yellow Line, which splits off at Howard) and the Shore Line, which continued north from the current end of track at Linden, both with the ultimate destination of Milwaukee.
To give you a lift on an otherwise dull Sunday; your vlogs are wonderful and make a perfect companion to the series Secrets of the London Underground.Keep doing what youre doing you have the magic formula now and will go from strength to strength.Thank you for your vlogs
You can actually have quite a lot of express service with only two tracks as long as there are enough stations with extra tracks for passing and/or timed transfers, though maybe not quite at metro-level frequency. The interurban Hanshin line that I used to live along between Kobe and Osaka, Japan had only two tracks and ran trains about every 6 minutes. Most of them were limited-stop. The quad-track subway lines in New York are great, but that place seems to overbuild rail like crazy. They're spending a stupendous amount of money to add new deep level platforms to Grand Central Station just for the Long Island Railroad when that place is essentially a gigantic underground train shed and only handles a fraction of the passengers that Shinjuku Station does.
The deep(er) level platforms are added and in service. Routing some LIRR trains to Grand Central Terminal (not "station") frees up slots in NY Penn Station, which allow for some Metro North services to be routed there once additional stations are built along the Northeast Corridor in The Bronx.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this technically already put in place for the Metropolitan line? Especially when travelling down from Chesham or Amersham, then back up.
@@katrinabryce There are more instances of National Rail acting as an express line too. • c2c for the District/H&C line. • Northwestern and Southern for the Bakerloo and Lioness/Mildmay lines. • Southern for the Windrush line. • Greater Anglia for the Weaver line
I wonder if Mr Yerkes grew that splendid moustache because he believed no self-respecting pantomime villain who indulges in nefarious railway hijinks is complete without whiskers that can be mischievously twirled or if he grew it and that it inadvertently lead him down a path of being a rascal of the rails, the reality being that it was the moustache that had dastardly ideas and he was just along for the ride, railroaded, if you will. Any story with our firm favourite anti-hero, Charles Yerkes, is a story worth waiting for. Welcome back old friend.
It’s much better to build new line as express in city, as it serves new area and you can build large stations, and expanding existing line makes only harder, yet less coverage. Quad-track is good when it’s above ground… or extremely popular, makes worth as that many tracks from the start.
This is amazing. I decided to watch this when I started eating my food and I finished my food the moment he said "cheerio" at the end. Perfect length video, I would like to express my thanks for the experience :p
Melbourne has a clever way to deal with this. All you need is one express line as travel is usually focussed in a different direction in the morning vs the evening. The express line carries trains into the city in the mornings and out of the city in the evenings.
I remember way back when the Overground used to work on Xmas day but missed out stations served by the District line but every other one so it was Upminster, Hornchurch, Dagenham East then Barking , Upton Park then into London
Having stayed at Ravenscourt Park on my first visit to London, it certainly felt like the Piccadilly Line was exactly like New York, or for that matter, Sydney where the inner stations (e.g. Stanmore) have platforms on the "local lines" and not on the "suburban line" and "intercity line". Stanmore's probably a bad example, with an abandoned platform; Petersham is better, and Croydon has abandoned platforms on almost every line. Don't you love how Sydney pinched a bunch of famous names from London? One of our major services would be "Liverpool via Regents Park". No apostrophes: Lands and Titles removed them, even from Kings Cross.
Lovely idea but there aren't any extra tracks on the LU lines to accommodate this. The exception could lie in LU lines that share space with national rail or london overground lines. There's been a setup like this on the metropolitan line from wembley park station on westwards. But that's shared with Chiltern railway.
Interesting when mentioning the 1930s overcrowding on the Northern Line... there was another attempt to solve that, which I can't remember Jago mentioning, and that was the 9-car train experiment just before the outbreak of the war.... a few regular 7 car trans were extended to 9 cars, and a complicated scheme made-up of at which stations the first 2 vs the last 2 would then stop without opening the doors - a bit like what is now done on the Overground over the former ELL. From what I have read, the experiment on the Northern line was terminated when WW2 broke out, but what then was considered a complicating factor was that ALL the 9 cars in such a train had to undergo electric system changes, and could not be changed in case of a breakdown.
I understand that the extra long platforms at, for example, Highgate, were to allow for longer trains with some cars stopping but remaining in the tunnels at ‘short’ stations. Sort of express services - but not really.
It always seemed a weird idea to me as the shorter platform stations were in the centre which is where nearly everyone wants to travel to, so almost nobody would use the end cars I assume. Which is presumably why the 9 car experiment soon vanished.
I enjoyed pretending I could keep up🤣. I watched again and our 'express' rails sound like an odd mix of some planning, some politricks and serendipity.
@dedomenici yep. If you live in bounds green and work in green park, then changing from piccadilly to victoria lines at Finsbury park is a life saver.
The irony about the Finchley Road - Baker Street section you mentioned is that actually the Jubilee will usually make the journey faater due to faster trains and harsher acceleration being possible in newer tunnels. The section from St Johns Wood to Baker Street is twice as fast as the whole journey between the Met stations. (That route is so slow and shabby it might be my least favourite section on the tube). The DOUBLE IRONY though is that if you are exiting at Finchley Road or Baker Street, the Met being subsurface and the Jubilee being buried under a million tunnels makes the Met slightly faster after all. Very confusing.
I lived in New York City for decades and took the subway almost every day. It runs 24/7 and most lines I rode had express tracks. The subway gets eerie in the wee hours, but the trains do run. I once got kicked out of a station when service shut down for track work. Everyone was nice about it, and the clerk gave me a free transfer. I walked to an express stop, hopped on the next train, and got home just fine.
Very interesting, I'm always thinking about potential express tubes when I'm traveling through London and how NYC has those extra tracks. I've been there a couple of times and it's truly a marvelous city. Jago, I think we would all love a video of the NYC subway, and potentially the other MTA lines if you're up for it :D
Instead of Express lines I want a first class on the underground, with six seat compartments, no standing, and a trolley service for refreshments en route.
Anyone who has travelled on the NYC Subway knows how slow (and infrequent) it is compared to London Underground. You might get lucky and get an express train, but if you have to wait for an express and the local is there... you'll often be faster just sitting on the local. In London, however, you can pretty much turn up and go and know that the train will (usually) run pretty fast between stations and generally move at a comparable, if not faster, pace than an express NYC Subway train.
In Athens, there is only one quad track underground railway being constructed and there never was a such line before. It is not a metro route, but the western tunnel will be used by express trains while the eastern tunnel will be used by stopping trains.
Chicago has a short four-track right of way, but not in tunnel. Red line trains run sort of express, bypassing Wellington and Diversey. As Katrina Bryce notes below, a set of express tracks could be used as cheaply for an alternative route, and that's what was done when the quicker subway route for this line was constructed.
The Met Line has Fast and Semi Fast services In days of old, some peak hours trains ran 'fast' to Harrow on the Hill. Not stopping at Wembley Park, Preston Road and Northwick Park (I believe Wembley Park is now served by all trains) In addition some peak hours services to Amersham & Watford also ran 'fast' to Moor Park. North Harrow, Pinner, Northwood Hills and Northwood being missed. Not sure if Semi-Fast now applies to missing the stops before or after Harrow on the Hill, as I no longer live in London
@@sssdddkkksss On BIG match days (cup final, international matches) fast trains would stop at Wembley Park. I believe it changed to all trains stopping after the new stadium opened
Not the tube, but in the 'olden days' of the mid 70s, my first job was in 'The City', so I commuted from the local station (Harold Wood) into Liverpool Street. There were a few 'express trains' during the morning and afternoon rush hours, I think they started at Shenfield, then it was Brentwood, Harold Wood, Stratford and Liverpool Street. I think they swapped onto the 'fast lines' after Harold Wood till they reached Stratford. Obviously, they were the ones to catch, though I don't think there were many each day. Of course, it's all Elizabeth Line now.
Chicago doesn't have express tunnels. We have two parallel tunnels close together in the Loop but they are full service. We do have express elevated lines for the Purple Line up north.
I guess most non-NA systems value connections over express services. In my hometown of Paris, M14 is sort of an express route over M1, but only on a limited section, then it veers off completely. Maybe it's due to the history of the NYC subway and its 3 largely independent systems that express/local tracks and services became a thing? Maybe if it had been a single system from the start, it would have looked very different. Food for thoughts. Thanks for another great video, Jago!
the Metropolitan line did have a few express trains in the aughties and late 90s, they still used thesame alignment but very often either the Chesham or the Amersham train would reach Baker street stopping at about a quarter of the stations... this was basically to allowed by the large gaps between trains on the section... also, the Piccadilly line would have airport express trains that missed all of the stops in Hunslow and other suburbs
There are express lines in London on the Northern Line at Burnt Oak, Colindale and Brent Cross stations, to allow the Bushey Heath (and possibly Watford Junction) trains speedier running to London
Victoria line is probably more of an express line to the Piccadilly and Charing Cross branch of the Northern lines - taking half the Northern line passengers at Stockwell and Euston, and half the Piccadilly line passengers at Finsbury Park and Green Park
When the Edgware extension of the Northern Line opened in the mid 1920s there were express tubes running from Edgware to Golders Green but of course these were open air lines and not tubes. The extra tracks could be seen for many years at the various stations by-passed but I think they may have all been lifted by now. Plenty of space to reinstall them though.
Yes you are correct Jago about the NYC Subway running 24 hours I used it at about 03-04am to go back to Canarsie in Brooklyn when I was staying with Friends after a Concert at The Beacon Theatre and never had any hassles 😋
Dont want to lose your vicinity to someone boring a hole in it. Under London seems to have become a bit Gruyere over the years. I'm guessing that very deep lines would have the problem if running through the water table and electricity and water dont mix very well. So new lines will (and did with the Eliizabeth line) have to negotiate a 3d maze without puncturing the holes that are already there ...except to join stations. I wonder how deep you could go?
New York was cut/cover, so all four tracks were in the same tunnel until it reached the rivers then it was dropped to two tunnels… and New York was different in that it was designed that way from the start rather than being added in later or following the precedent that was set by other systems and the 24/7 service is because the system is so extensive that it’s impossible to shutdown for the night due to not being able to return before the start of service so it’s easier to close a section of track, run a shuttle train on the opposite track, and continue service as normal or diverting around the track via the express tracks
Although not part of the Tube, the C2C line effectively acts as an express line to the District Line between Upminster and Tower Bridge / Fenchurch Street
Memory serves Hendon Central was built with passing loops so that an express service from Edgeware could overtake a stopping service there. I think it didn't really work. Reality is that underground trains hardly stop and then accelerate away quite fast. For such an express service, they would have to stop longer.
Can you do a video like this but explaining shuttle services some subway networks have them. I've hard some people refer to a service as a shuttle service apparently London has them but I don't see this on like a train or tube map so what makes it one & where?
You must go to New York. But remember to take your David Attenborough voice for the sequences about the rats. The subway has superb rats, which sometimes put on a show to entertain you while waiting for a train--well, it's entertaining if you enjoy watching rats. There are also little mini-sculptures, which are a delight when you come across them. On a railway theme, there is also the Highline, which is disused freight tracks turned into an elevated park. Grand Central Station (though they call it G.C. Terminal these days)--the Americans really know how to do a railway station. And the best value for money in public transport (in the world, I think) is the Staten Island Ferry: quite a long trip on a serious ship-sized vessel, with stunning views of New York, and it's free. You shouldn't have mentioned New York--it's got me going. But you probably ought to get advice about the etiquette of filming on the subway. Oh, and the elevated railway in Chicago. The USA has superb infrastructure, which has been allowed to decay to a pretty ratty state, in places. History of the USA in the last century, I guess. Washington D.C. has a wonderful modern metro, but it's a bit inclined to have crashes. I see they're coming to take me away now, but California is a public transport desert. Even LAX is grotty.
The London Underground has lots of little mice scurrying up and down the deep tube line station tracks. Not sure how they make a living. On the sub-surface lines, you sometimes get pigeons jumping on board for a couple of stops. It happens a lot at Edgware road, and then they hop off again at Baker Street. The locals just ignore them. A previous London Mayor, Ken Livingstone, hated London pigeons, and made the selling of bird food, for what are often called flying rats, illegal near Trafalgar Square. For some strange reason, tourists seem to quite like acting out a scene from Hitchcock's "The Birds", smothered in disease-ridden pigeons. Strangely Ken was fond of newts if I remember correctly. Whilst I'm extemporising on the subject of pigeons in London, there's a truly horrible, but compelling video on RUclips of a pelican in St. James Park swallowing a pigeon whole.
The statement that most mainlines in the UK are built on the basis of a couple of express lines and a couple of stopper type lines is a bit London, or at least south-eastern, centric. Most mainline track in the UK is dual, except where it approaches London. For example, the GWR Western Mainline is only four track as far as Didcot. The West Coast Mainline is a bit of an exception in that it is largely four track to Crewe. The East Coast mainline is quadruple as far as Grantham. The old Central Mainline was a bit odd in that it was mostly twin track, but with space at stations for two high speed "bypass" lines for express trains to thunder through whilst the "stoppers" were waiting at the station. That must have been a considerable problem with scheduling. In the world of High Speed lines, they've simply decided that the "stoppers" and the high speed expresses don't mix. It's now a very high speed through route on a pair of lines, with the everyday commuter relegated to the second rate slow speed lines. Of course, the "stoppers" would be the biggest beneficiaries of electrification due to the much higher rates of acceleration possible. Imagine the increase in capacity and speed and capacity that could be achieved on the Chiltern line if it was electrified at a fraction of the cost of HS2. Meanwhile construction work on the HS2 round Aylesbury is wreaking havoc with the local road transport service, with a constant series of road closures (one soon to last for two weeks) necessitating 10+ mile detours on a normally 2 mile route, and the suspension of the local bus service. Meanwhile, the rail commuters in the area will not see any improvements and are suffering all the local travel disruption. But then such valuable, but relatively small scale improvement don't have the glamour of the worlds most expensive mainline (in terms of cost per mile) do they?
I used to commute from Mile End to Earls Court. I once tried taking the Elizabeth line between Whitechapel and Paddington to save time, but all the walking to the Elizabeth line platforms and around Paddington probably negated the time saved, not to mention waiting for an Edgware Road branch District line train on the way back
![GEEK TIMË [OFFICIAL AUDIO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ry-6RvkH880/mqdefault.jpg)
Putting extra express tracks on an existing line would cost about the same as building an entirely new line, and an entirely new line has the benefit of making more different journeys possible. I guess that's why the entirely new line always wins out for budget funding.
Not entirely true. The most expensive thing (by far) when building an underground railway is not the tracks, but the stations. Building an express railway would mean fewer stations, making it theoretically considerably cheaper than building a brand-new slow line.
That of course doesn’t necessarily make it worthwhile, as the benefits of such a line are far fewer, too.
An entirely new line in Britain would be impossible, and doubly impossible in London, a city that hates building new stuff in a country that doubly hates building things anyway, and when it does so, overruns by multiples in time and cost. So we can say for certain that this will never happen in this universe.
@@SampleTracks2224 The Elizabeth Line was an entirely new line within Central London. HS2 is going to be another, at some point in the distant future.
@@KasabianFan44 The Elizabeth line is a new line but it basically only serves existing stations. It also shows that using an existing station can often still mean as much work as a new one.
@@katrinabryce HS2 is dead in the water
Someone once mentioned maintenance in the London Underground as doing a bypass surgery on a patient who’s alive and talking.
it’s the same in New York, only there they have the express tracks for bypassing the obstruction
… and still moving around doing their daily tasks.
Was going to comment but stupid autocorrect and RUclips deemed otherwise! 😠
Howard Collins, the Tube boss turned Sydney Trains head, said of ST’s maintenance that it was “open-heart surgery on a patient who’s still trying to play a game of tennis”.
No doubt most rapid-transit and commuter rail systems are very much the same.
That's why they have a huge amount of delays! plus the mess with lines overcrowed with trains where if 1 train brakes wich there is 99% to happen it will always compromise those railworks ,thats why on the weekends when they make those closures there is no win-win
In 1991, I was a foot messenger for an advertising company, and took hard-copy adverts in various stages of completion to the places which worked on them.
I had to get them to and from the different places around London as quickly as possible, and so I learned the transport network concerning my routes completely, so that I could hop off a tube train at one station, use an interconnecting node to make it as seamless as possible, even making use of buses where viable.
I went back to London a few years ago, to find what felt like a wholly new city laid over the remnants of the one I'd only left behind a decade or so prior, it was quite unsettling, to say the least!
Nodding my head as I read this. I was a studio junior for an advertising company based in Tottenham Court Road in the early 80s doing the same dtuff as you. All praise Letraset.
My only lasting impression ( that I'm prepared to regaill here) was that the fillet O fish stayed warmer twice as long as a Big Mac.
In 1989 I was working in the West End commuting from Edgware end of the northern line. There were quite a few strikes that year and on one occasion, I was faced with the need of getting to work using the 113 bus which would have taken ages. So when I saw the station gates slightly open, I thought I'd check to see if there were actually trains running that day. What I found was, that they were indeed running a limited service to the West End, stopping only at Golders Green, Camden Town, and then all stations. Got me there in half the time it was brilliant. Although slightly unnerving to be going so fast through all those other stations.
Often when there are strikes at stations, the Northern Line will skip stations that only have lift access, giving a really fast journey! Hampstead, Belsize Park, Chalk Farm, Mornington Crescent and Goodge Street all get skipped...
Love your imaginary first map illustrating how express lines might function. Eastenders meets Quatermass and the pit. Great imagination!
But do you know what West Ashfield is?
@@chrisadye1590 I guessed it might feature in some form of fiction but decided not to look it up. I give you the honour of informing me.
@@chrisadye1590 West Ashfield is the imaginary station used at London Underground's training school at Ashfield House, nearest real station is West Kensington. Another made up station seen in Piccadlly Third Stop 1960 was Mayfair.
There is a planned extension of the line to East Cheam.
@@chrisadye1590West Ashfield is the name given to the mock station used in the Underground’s training facility in West Kensington
Some fast Bakerloo trains ran as an express service not stopping at all stations and in the late 1940's the Ted Heath Orchestra celebrated this with the piece 'Bakerloo Non-Stop' their musical answer to Billy Strayhorn's 1941 composition for Duke Ellington's Ochestra 'Take The 'A' Train' an express service on the New York Subway.
I believe there was also some non-stopping on the Northern Line (using loops at Brent) and the Piccadilly Line in the early days. There was a play in 1928 called "Passing Brompton Road" after the Piccadilly Line platform announcements.
@@tomburnham5119, to the best of my knowledge, the passing loop at Brent (now Brent Cross) was built but never used, with the tracks eventually being lifted.
@@mbrady2329 "Rails Through the Clay" (Jackson & Croome) says the loop at Brent was used by one train in each direction from about 1927 until 22 Aug 1936. You could still see where the extra tracks used to be in the 1970s, at least. It does seem a lot of effort for a very marginal improvement!
Love that 'Hobbs End's.
Hobbs End was, of course, the mythical tube station featured in that 1968 Hammer classic sci fi horror film, 'Quatermass and the Pit'.
So did I! I know that film well. As I'm sure you know, in the film the name 'Hobbs End' started out as 'Hob's End', 'Hob' being the name of a demon. Hobgoblins etc.
We are all showing our age.
Thanks, I recognised the other two names on the mythical route but was puzzled by that one
The way we work in New York (I do say we as an MTA employee) is we didn't build four tunnels, but one large one, wide enough to hold all the tracks at once. In some places, the tunnels are double decked, with ether the express and local tracks on separate levels or the directions of travel separated.
this is helped by the wide, grid pattern our streets are laid out on in manhattan.
What about the Metropolitan Line? The Finchley Road to Wembley Park section skips five Jubilee Line stations, and there are fast services to the more distant stations. Not separate lines, the express services exist
They're more semi-fast than true express services. They're good but the S8 stock are not great in terms for running an express service.
Having grown up in Wembley in the 1950s and 60's Wembley Park was my local station. I always waited for the Metropolitan train at Baker Street or Finchley Road in place of taking the Bakerloo in those days. I was always impressed how, if the two lines arrived simultaneously arrived at Wembley Park or Finchley Road, the drivers would wait until those who wanted to switch trains could easily do so.
@@davidfeiler8896They frequently do that at Hammersmith and Acton Town as well, though it does obviously depend on both trains being aware that that is happening. (I’ve had many instances where the Piccadilly line train would close its doors just as a District line train arrived behind it!)
@@davidfeiler8896 Interesting, when i was using the District/ Dilly interchange at Acton Town a few years ago the exact opposite always seemed to happen.
What about the genuine 'fast' and 'semi-fast' services on the Met.
I was going to ask the same question.
The Metropolitan is a proper Railway, not some squalid prole-shifter in a tunnel ;-)
@@Julius_Hardware The same as the Piccadilly express line to the District line
From what I can see, these are now peak-only, rather than being part of the standard service pattern as they were a few years ago, which is slightly different.
That said, the Met _is_ the express service alongside the Jubilee, skipping Neasden, Dollis Hill, Willesden Green, Kilburn, West Hampstead, Swiss Cottage and St John's Wood ... and the Piccadilly _is_ the express service alongside the District, skipping Chiswick Park, Stamford Brook, Ravenscourt Park and West Kensington.
I also wonder if a greater density of suburban rail coverage may have obviated some of the need for express Underground services.
Got on one by mistake once and had to return to Wembley Park from Harrow On The Hill.
Yes, you mentioned three examples of express routes - though, to be pedantic, the Met is not just an express between Baker Street and Finchley Road, but also onwards to Harrow-on-the-Hill and Moor Park (where at times the Met is an express line to itself). Paris took the idea of express lines when building the RER - and I often used it, hoping that one day Crossrail would happen. They have chosen to invest further in those express lines than London - a case of different financial decisions.
Possibly also a case of different degrees of free space? After all, France has the same size population as the UK but has roughly double the area.
Always love an appearance from the man, the myth, the legend...Mr Yerkes
Hobbs End - nice Quatermass and the Pit reference, that film terrifies me as a kid.
First Jago video I’ve watched while actually in London itself. Thanks for all the great videos that have kept me entertained while I’m home in the USA
Jango?
@@AtheistOrphan He has a sideline in hunting bounties to pay for his train habit.
@@AtheistOrphanautocorrect apparently doesn’t like “Jago” 😅
All those who get the Metropolitan fast service to this day are waving their hands around right now.
Not to mention Barons Court to Turnpike Lane...
You could also argue that the Fenchurch St (C2C) line provides an express alternative to the District Line between West Ham, Barking and Upminster - though in that case the Express line was built fast and they ran underground trains alongside it later!
Yes! But from Upminster to Tower Hill in effect. Saves 15-20 minutes taking the c2c to Fenchurch then walking to Tower Hill rather than sitting on the District line all the way. Limehouse is also useful to get the DLR to Bank, then the northern line is straight up the escalators.
Another interesting video which brings out more questions than answers. I regularly used the subway in New York where the original construction in Manhattan under the long straight Avenues enabled a 4 track trunk system from the outset. They are certainly expresses as they rattle through stations non-stop. London did experiment with trains missing stops which proved unworkable. The other example which you didn't mention, as part of the Metropolitan line of the 1960 electrification, was the construction of a pair of fast lines was from Harrow to north of Moor Park by 1962. This enabled both the Metropolitan and British Railway services through to Amersham and Aylesbury to be speed up and extra trains for Watford on the slow lines.
Another insightful & entertaining piece -add 10 extra points for 'Hobbs End' on your hypothetical 4-tunnel line, absolutely The Pit(s)! 👍
Nerd fact: The New York elevated lines on Manhattan ran a third track as an express line. Express trains ran south in the morning commute. Then north in the afternoon commute. At the express stations the track was raised another level to make room for the platforms. I don't know if this still exists in Brooklyn or Bronx for the surviving elevated sections.
Unfortunately no the Brooklyn and Bronx elevated lines weren’t built that way. I fact most of the middle tracks were used for storage rather than express services.
@@ayindestevens6152 It's confusing. In Brooklyn the B (express) and the Q (not) are on the same route. The stations where the B stops have a central platform for the Q trains to stop on. The parallel ( a couple miles to the west) D line is built the same way, but doesn't have an express version today. But if a train is delayed and the next one is close enough a D might announce it's only making express stops. The extra express tracks are also used to get around a stalled train etc., and the express tunnels are used to store trains inside when there's a blizzard, in which case there is obviously no express service. Also express tracks are used to send an empty train or service train someplace. They add a lot of flexibility.
A section of the 7 train in Corona still operates like this, with the express track raised to another level at 111th Street to make room for lead tracks to the 7 train's main yard. As for surviving elevated lines in Brooklyn and the Bronx they were designed with third tracks from the outset so express stations were built with 2 island platforms on the same level by default. Another thing to bear in mind with the raised third tracks in Manhattan is they existed for the most part as appendages to existing, much older 2-track elevated lines. As such the raised platforms to support express trains were less an intentional design and more them trying to make them work on a line not originally designed to support express service.
At the very least, F train in Brooklyn has a third express track after church avenue. It’s kinda used today for the F culver rush hour express
@@LuckyFlanker13 I don't think it is actually. The weird rush hour service runs express north of Church Avenue only, so the third track south of Church Ave is still mostly unused outside of the bit at Kings Highway, where trains terminate sometimes for capacity reasons.
Should the part of Jubilee between Canning Town and Stratford be an express service to the DLR as well? They run the literally alongside each other. One skips, and one local. I mean, that might even be the nearest one to the concept of "express line" tbh.
Or the c2c from Upminster to West Ham running parallel to the district line
Well done, Jago. I love the station names chosen for the imaginary tube line at 0:26! Yes, I got the references for all of them!
So did I, but West Ashfield seems not to be as well known as the other two.
I'm waiting for Perdido Street Station to make an appearance 😁
Jago has never been to New York? Patrons, be the Subway Pass to his New York Commuter.
Do they still have the Fun Pass travelcard in NYC?
@@apolloc.vermouth5672nope not for about 15 years
don't you mean his Metrocard or his OMNY?
@@raakone Metrocard. So far OMNY is doing a weekly fare-capping scheme in tandem to Pay As You Go.
@@ayindestevens6152 Pretty sure that's how most US public transport works now, tap to pay with fare capping (unless its some specific special route or something).
Living in zone 6 District line, but too far from Upminster or Barking or the Elizabeth line is an absolute pain and journeys take forever.
I'd like to report a theft. Someone stole "Tyson".
He appeared on Geoff Marshall's channel a few days ago 😂😂😂
Welp, at least CTY put in an appearance! It wouldn't be a Jago Hazzard video otherwise.
Hobbs End and Walford East - love it 😄
Not forgetting 'West Ashfield' (TfL training 'station')
New York built the local and express lines at the same time. More expensive in early 20th century dollars but paying for themselves now. The 2nd Avenue line does not include express lines as such - very expensive in early 21st century dollars.
Something I feel is relevant is the outer Metropolitan line services which do have true fasts with the tracks to accommodate. I guess they fit into the Metropolitan building like a regular surface railway and not an underground line
Great video Jago 👏🏾 I soptted some comments which complement your observations of the Piccadilly Line running express to the District Line between Hammersmith and Acton Town, the Metropolitan Line running express to the Jubilee Line between Finchley Road and Wembley Park, and also the Jubilee Line running express to the Docklands Light Railway between Stratford and Canning Town, and the C2C running express to the District Line between West Ham and Upminster.
Although not train-related, this did remind me of express bus services in London, e.g. there used to be an X15 route that ran from East Ham, and there were Green Line routes that ran on the A roads from central London (e.g. along the Barking Road). There must be other examples from across London.
I love the way you used West Ashfield of Ashfield House, Hobbs Lane from Quatermass and the Pit and Walford East from Eastenders. One is a driver training unit and the others being made up for TV & Cinema. Brilliance 👋👋👋
Five seconds after release! A new personal record for a Jago video release. Thanks for another great video.
8 minutes for me.
Good idea - especially when Hobbs End has to be closed due to alien-influenced demonic posession.
Love the “Hobbs End” reference in your imaginary tube line graphic! Anyone else out there remember the sci-fi Hammer classic, “Quartermass and the Pit?”
BBC horror - the Hammer movie was a remake.. And yes it's a great movue.
Yes a remember it.
That’s why we don’t have an express line, in case an alien spaceship of insects is unearthed.
During Covid I went on a Victoria line train that skipped more than half of the stations between Euston and Stockwell. That was quite an express. Anyway, I find South Acton dangling downwards very disturbing 😲 You should totally do New York. It's great.
I worked on London underground from 1957 to 2001 and up to the Early Sixties the District ran " Semi Fast" trains Non- Stopping at certain Stations also at that time the Distict ran to Hounslow West, so , Wimbledon service Non Stopped " West Brompton, the Ealing Broadway Service Non stop South Kensington & Gloucester Road and the Hounslow Trains Non Stop Ravenscourt Park and Stamford Brook, my memory cannot remember what Station/ Stations the Richmond Service did not stop at. From South Kensington to Gloucester Road it was " Double Tracked to provide for the Non- Stopping of the Ealing Broadway service, unfortunately the whole idea did not work very well as very often the " Semi Fasts" got blocked behind other trains so it was discontinued by the Mid Sixties.
Jago, you mentioned that you have never been to New York. To get an idea of the what it is like on the subway lines, I suggest the RUclips channel “Welcome to an experience”. They have route videos, most taken from the front of the subway train. I would recommend the #4 line (former IRT line) that runs from Brooklyn to the north end of the Bronx via Manhattan. It is slightly edited but gives a good feel of the complexity and variety of construction, from at grade, to true subway, to elevated, also includes express running in Manhattan.
Could you do a video on transit-oriented-development around existing stations? Especially Kidbrooke. But you could look at Southall, Hayes & Harlington, Croydon, Sutton, Nine Elms, Elephant & Castle, Lewisham, Deptford Bridge, Woolwich, Plumsted, Beckton Riverside, Barking Riverside, Rainham (Beam Park), Barking, llford, Stratford, Wembley Park, Walthamstow Central, Tottenham Hale, Meridian Water, Brent Cross Town, All the Actons, Cheshunt, Luton Airport Parkway, Welwyn Garden City, Carpenders Park, Chelmsford, Queens Park/Kilburn High Road, Canada Water, Tolworth, Wandsworth (Gasworks), Neasden, and more.
Ah, the times my mate Bernard Quatermass and I have waited at Hobbs End for the express train.......
A jago video on the new york subway system would actually be pretty nifty.
He has to go there first. 😉
If he could stand the smell. 😒
@@EElgar1857 It can't be that bad
@@jasonhaven7170It really isn't that bad.
@@jasonhaven7170 it’s terrible, and not to mention the crime on the system.
Surprised you never mentioned the slow/fast lines on the Metropolitan itself beyond Wembley Park, allowing fast and slow Amersham & Chesham services.
Good to see Hobbs End get a mention though! Watch out for dead Martians!
Good show as always......I'm liking your Quatermass and the Pit reference to "Hobbs End", just hope they don't dig too deep......
Just a note here: The express tracks in Chicago are not in the subway, but on the elevated structure. The main line north of the Loop is four tracks wide as it handles Red Line trains from the subway through to Howard, Brown Line trains from the Loop to Kimball, and Purple Line trains from Howard to Linden, with weekday nonstop Purple Line service between Howard and the Loop. It used to be even busier, with the Chicago North Shore & Milwaukee interurban line that ran from the loop to either the Skokie Valley Line (a remnant of which is the Skokie Swift, or Yellow Line, which splits off at Howard) and the Shore Line, which continued north from the current end of track at Linden, both with the ultimate destination of Milwaukee.
To give you a lift on an otherwise dull Sunday; your vlogs are wonderful and make a perfect companion to the series Secrets of the London Underground.Keep doing what youre doing you have the magic formula now and will go from strength to strength.Thank you for your vlogs
You can actually have quite a lot of express service with only two tracks as long as there are enough stations with extra tracks for passing and/or timed transfers, though maybe not quite at metro-level frequency. The interurban Hanshin line that I used to live along between Kobe and Osaka, Japan had only two tracks and ran trains about every 6 minutes. Most of them were limited-stop.
The quad-track subway lines in New York are great, but that place seems to overbuild rail like crazy. They're spending a stupendous amount of money to add new deep level platforms to Grand Central Station just for the Long Island Railroad when that place is essentially a gigantic underground train shed and only handles a fraction of the passengers that Shinjuku Station does.
The deep(er) level platforms are added and in service. Routing some LIRR trains to Grand Central Terminal (not "station") frees up slots in NY Penn Station, which allow for some Metro North services to be routed there once additional stations are built along the Northeast Corridor in The Bronx.
"Pull a fast one!" Excellent and informative as ever. Thank you.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this technically already put in place for the Metropolitan line? Especially when travelling down from Chesham or Amersham, then back up.
Yes, and Chiltern Railways also acts as a sort of super-express.
Well yeah. But because of the top speeds on the lines, a fast train only really gets you between baker street - harrow a couple minutes faster.
I was going to say the same!
@@katrinabryce There are more instances of National Rail acting as an express line too.
• c2c for the District/H&C line.
• Northwestern and Southern for the Bakerloo and Lioness/Mildmay lines.
• Southern for the Windrush line.
• Greater Anglia for the Weaver line
Yes, but that's not underground. That's more because there already is a "regular" railway there as well
Currently living in Tooting and crying at the missed opportunity of an express northern line.
I wonder if Mr Yerkes grew that splendid moustache because he believed no self-respecting pantomime villain who indulges in nefarious railway hijinks is complete without whiskers that can be mischievously twirled or if he grew it and that it inadvertently lead him down a path of being a rascal of the rails, the reality being that it was the moustache that had dastardly ideas and he was just along for the ride, railroaded, if you will.
Any story with our firm favourite anti-hero, Charles Yerkes, is a story worth waiting for. Welcome back old friend.
So, Snidely Whiplash then. (Google it if you have to.)
Thank you for mentioning Philadelphia. An interesting city that is often overlooked.
It’s much better to build new line as express in city, as it serves new area and you can build large stations, and expanding existing line makes only harder, yet less coverage.
Quad-track is good when it’s above ground… or extremely popular, makes worth as that many tracks from the start.
London overground does express whenever it’s running late😂😂 pretty good for me cos I go end to end anyway
The rest of the country either cuts the journey short or bins it off as a bad job
"London Underground likes to pull a fast one" Memo to self: never drink cocoa while watching a Jago vid 🤧
Paris used a similar scheme with the RER A and the Line 14 to reduce he overcrowding of the Line 1.
This is amazing. I decided to watch this when I started eating my food and I finished my food the moment he said "cheerio" at the end. Perfect length video, I would like to express my thanks for the experience :p
Melbourne has a clever way to deal with this. All you need is one express line as travel is usually focussed in a different direction in the morning vs the evening. The express line carries trains into the city in the mornings and out of the city in the evenings.
I remember way back when the Overground used to work on Xmas day but missed out stations served by the District line but every other one so it was Upminster, Hornchurch, Dagenham East then Barking , Upton Park then into London
Having stayed at Ravenscourt Park on my first visit to London, it certainly felt like the Piccadilly Line was exactly like New York, or for that matter, Sydney where the inner stations (e.g. Stanmore) have platforms on the "local lines" and not on the "suburban line" and "intercity line". Stanmore's probably a bad example, with an abandoned platform; Petersham is better, and Croydon has abandoned platforms on almost every line. Don't you love how Sydney pinched a bunch of famous names from London? One of our major services would be "Liverpool via Regents Park". No apostrophes: Lands and Titles removed them, even from Kings Cross.
Excellent video my friends awesome like 👍🏻 and Greeting 🙋🏻♂️🇦🇷
Lovely idea but there aren't any extra tracks on the LU lines to accommodate this.
The exception could lie in LU lines that share space with national rail or london overground lines.
There's been a setup like this on the metropolitan line from wembley park station on westwards. But that's shared with Chiltern railway.
Interesting when mentioning the 1930s overcrowding on the Northern Line... there was another attempt to solve that, which I can't remember Jago mentioning, and that was the 9-car train experiment just before the outbreak of the war.... a few regular 7 car trans were extended to 9 cars, and a complicated scheme made-up of at which stations the first 2 vs the last 2 would then stop without opening the doors - a bit like what is now done on the Overground over the former ELL. From what I have read, the experiment on the Northern line was terminated when WW2 broke out, but what then was considered a complicating factor was that ALL the 9 cars in such a train had to undergo electric system changes, and could not be changed in case of a breakdown.
I understand that the extra long platforms at, for example, Highgate, were to allow for longer trains with some cars stopping but remaining in the tunnels at ‘short’ stations. Sort of express services - but not really.
It always seemed a weird idea to me as the shorter platform stations were in the centre which is where nearly everyone wants to travel to, so almost nobody would use the end cars I assume. Which is presumably why the 9 car experiment soon vanished.
I enjoyed pretending I could keep up🤣. I watched again and our 'express' rails sound like an odd mix of some planning, some politricks and serendipity.
I hope “ya basic” was a purposeful Easter egg because I’m really enjoying the fact that you just called out all of us in a sneaky way
The Victoria also works a bit like an express line for the Piccadilly between Finsbury Park and King's Cross.
Finsbury Park and Green Park even.
@dedomenici yep. If you live in bounds green and work in green park, then changing from piccadilly to victoria lines at Finsbury park is a life saver.
The irony about the Finchley Road - Baker Street section you mentioned is that actually the Jubilee will usually make the journey faater due to faster trains and harsher acceleration being possible in newer tunnels. The section from St Johns Wood to Baker Street is twice as fast as the whole journey between the Met stations. (That route is so slow and shabby it might be my least favourite section on the tube).
The DOUBLE IRONY though is that if you are exiting at Finchley Road or Baker Street, the Met being subsurface and the Jubilee being buried under a million tunnels makes the Met slightly faster after all.
Very confusing.
I lived in New York City for decades and took the subway almost every day. It runs 24/7 and most lines I rode had express tracks. The subway gets eerie in the wee hours, but the trains do run.
I once got kicked out of a station when service shut down for track work. Everyone was nice about it, and the clerk gave me a free transfer. I walked to an express stop, hopped on the next train, and got home just fine.
Very interesting, I'm always thinking about potential express tubes when I'm traveling through London and how NYC has those extra tracks. I've been there a couple of times and it's truly a marvelous city. Jago, I think we would all love a video of the NYC subway, and potentially the other MTA lines if you're up for it :D
Well done. very interesting, as always. Plus very good use of maps 🥰
Instead of Express lines I want a first class on the underground, with six seat compartments, no standing, and a trolley service for refreshments en route.
Anyone who has travelled on the NYC Subway knows how slow (and infrequent) it is compared to London Underground. You might get lucky and get an express train, but if you have to wait for an express and the local is there... you'll often be faster just sitting on the local. In London, however, you can pretty much turn up and go and know that the train will (usually) run pretty fast between stations and generally move at a comparable, if not faster, pace than an express NYC Subway train.
In Athens, there is only one quad track underground railway being constructed and there never was a such line before. It is not a metro route, but the western tunnel will be used by express trains while the eastern tunnel will be used by stopping trains.
Chicago has a short four-track right of way, but not in tunnel. Red line trains run sort of express, bypassing Wellington and Diversey. As Katrina Bryce notes below, a set of express tracks could be used as cheaply for an alternative route, and that's what was done when the quicker subway route for this line was constructed.
The Met Line has Fast and Semi Fast services
In days of old, some peak hours trains ran 'fast' to Harrow on the Hill. Not stopping at Wembley Park, Preston Road and Northwick Park (I believe Wembley Park is now served by all trains)
In addition some peak hours services to Amersham & Watford also ran 'fast' to Moor Park. North Harrow, Pinner, Northwood Hills and Northwood being missed.
Not sure if Semi-Fast now applies to missing the stops before or after Harrow on the Hill, as I no longer live in London
I remember this. It wasn't long ago - maybe 15 years ago, that Wembley would be skipped out. I'd get caught out sometimes.
@@sssdddkkksss On BIG match days (cup final, international matches) fast trains would stop at Wembley Park.
I believe it changed to all trains stopping after the new stadium opened
why do I keep thinking "Quatermass"? Nice one, Jago!
Not the tube, but in the 'olden days' of the mid 70s, my first job was in 'The City', so I commuted from the local station (Harold Wood) into Liverpool Street. There were a few 'express trains' during the morning and afternoon rush hours, I think they started at Shenfield, then it was Brentwood, Harold Wood, Stratford and Liverpool Street. I think they swapped onto the 'fast lines' after Harold Wood till they reached Stratford. Obviously, they were the ones to catch, though I don't think there were many each day. Of course, it's all Elizabeth Line now.
Chicago doesn't have express tunnels. We have two parallel tunnels close together in the Loop but they are full service. We do have express elevated lines for the Purple Line up north.
Hobbs End, love it.
I guess most non-NA systems value connections over express services. In my hometown of Paris, M14 is sort of an express route over M1, but only on a limited section, then it veers off completely. Maybe it's due to the history of the NYC subway and its 3 largely independent systems that express/local tracks and services became a thing? Maybe if it had been a single system from the start, it would have looked very different. Food for thoughts.
Thanks for another great video, Jago!
8:50 What an awful pun Mr Hazzard. 10/10 made me chuckle.
the Metropolitan line did have a few express trains in the aughties and late 90s, they still used thesame alignment but very often either the Chesham or the Amersham train would reach Baker street stopping at about a quarter of the stations... this was basically to allowed by the large gaps between trains on the section... also, the Piccadilly line would have airport express trains that missed all of the stops in Hunslow and other suburbs
There are express lines in London on the Northern Line at Burnt Oak, Colindale and Brent Cross stations, to allow the Bushey Heath (and possibly Watford Junction) trains speedier running to London
Hold on, aren't the Metropolitan line's fast and semi-fast services the dictionary definition of express lines?
Victoria line is probably more of an express line to the Piccadilly and Charing Cross branch of the Northern lines - taking half the Northern line passengers at Stockwell and Euston, and half the Piccadilly line passengers at Finsbury Park and Green Park
When the Edgware extension of the Northern Line opened in the mid 1920s there were express tubes running from Edgware to Golders Green but of course these were open air lines and not tubes. The extra tracks could be seen for many years at the various stations by-passed but I think they may have all been lifted by now. Plenty of space to reinstall them though.
Yes you are correct Jago about the NYC Subway running 24 hours
I used it at about 03-04am to go back to Canarsie in Brooklyn when I was staying with Friends
after a Concert at The Beacon Theatre and never had any hassles 😋
Dont want to lose your vicinity to someone boring a hole in it. Under London seems to have become a bit Gruyere over the years. I'm guessing that very deep lines would have the problem if running through the water table and electricity and water dont mix very well. So new lines will (and did with the Eliizabeth line) have to negotiate a 3d maze without puncturing the holes that are already there ...except to join stations. I wonder how deep you could go?
New York was cut/cover, so all four tracks were in the same tunnel until it reached the rivers then it was dropped to two tunnels…
and New York was different in that it was designed that way from the start rather than being added in later or following the precedent that was set by other systems
and the 24/7 service is because the system is so extensive that it’s impossible to shutdown for the night due to not being able to return before the start of service so it’s easier to close a section of track, run a shuttle train on the opposite track, and continue service as normal or diverting around the track via the express tracks
Would be happy to give you a show-around NYC if you ever end up in the area!
Hobbs End, isnt that from Quattermas and the Pit. There are the SL super link express busses, as a comparitor.
You don’t want to go to Hobbs End.
Those Martians would be leaping.
Although not part of the Tube, the C2C line effectively acts as an express line to the District Line between Upminster and Tower Bridge / Fenchurch Street
Memory serves Hendon Central was built with passing loops so that an express service from Edgeware could overtake a stopping service there. I think it didn't really work. Reality is that underground trains hardly stop and then accelerate away quite fast. For such an express service, they would have to stop longer.
Can you do a video like this but explaining shuttle services some subway networks have them. I've hard some people refer to a service as a shuttle service apparently London has them but I don't see this on like a train or tube map so what makes it one & where?
You must go to New York. But remember to take your David Attenborough voice for the sequences about the rats. The subway has superb rats, which sometimes put on a show to entertain you while waiting for a train--well, it's entertaining if you enjoy watching rats. There are also little mini-sculptures, which are a delight when you come across them. On a railway theme, there is also the Highline, which is disused freight tracks turned into an elevated park. Grand Central Station (though they call it G.C. Terminal these days)--the Americans really know how to do a railway station. And the best value for money in public transport (in the world, I think) is the Staten Island Ferry: quite a long trip on a serious ship-sized vessel, with stunning views of New York, and it's free.
You shouldn't have mentioned New York--it's got me going. But you probably ought to get advice about the etiquette of filming on the subway.
Oh, and the elevated railway in Chicago. The USA has superb infrastructure, which has been allowed to decay to a pretty ratty state, in places. History of the USA in the last century, I guess.
Washington D.C. has a wonderful modern metro, but it's a bit inclined to have crashes.
I see they're coming to take me away now, but California is a public transport desert. Even LAX is grotty.
The London Underground has lots of little mice scurrying up and down the deep tube line station tracks. Not sure how they make a living. On the sub-surface lines, you sometimes get pigeons jumping on board for a couple of stops. It happens a lot at Edgware road, and then they hop off again at Baker Street. The locals just ignore them.
A previous London Mayor, Ken Livingstone, hated London pigeons, and made the selling of bird food, for what are often called flying rats, illegal near Trafalgar Square. For some strange reason, tourists seem to quite like acting out a scene from Hitchcock's "The Birds", smothered in disease-ridden pigeons. Strangely Ken was fond of newts if I remember correctly.
Whilst I'm extemporising on the subject of pigeons in London, there's a truly horrible, but compelling video on RUclips of a pelican in St. James Park swallowing a pigeon whole.
Appreciate the Hobbs End reference. ❤
The statement that most mainlines in the UK are built on the basis of a couple of express lines and a couple of stopper type lines is a bit London, or at least south-eastern, centric. Most mainline track in the UK is dual, except where it approaches London. For example, the GWR Western Mainline is only four track as far as Didcot. The West Coast Mainline is a bit of an exception in that it is largely four track to Crewe. The East Coast mainline is quadruple as far as Grantham. The old Central Mainline was a bit odd in that it was mostly twin track, but with space at stations for two high speed "bypass" lines for express trains to thunder through whilst the "stoppers" were waiting at the station. That must have been a considerable problem with scheduling.
In the world of High Speed lines, they've simply decided that the "stoppers" and the high speed expresses don't mix. It's now a very high speed through route on a pair of lines, with the everyday commuter relegated to the second rate slow speed lines. Of course, the "stoppers" would be the biggest beneficiaries of electrification due to the much higher rates of acceleration possible. Imagine the increase in capacity and speed and capacity that could be achieved on the Chiltern line if it was electrified at a fraction of the cost of HS2. Meanwhile construction work on the HS2 round Aylesbury is wreaking havoc with the local road transport service, with a constant series of road closures (one soon to last for two weeks) necessitating 10+ mile detours on a normally 2 mile route, and the suspension of the local bus service. Meanwhile, the rail commuters in the area will not see any improvements and are suffering all the local travel disruption.
But then such valuable, but relatively small scale improvement don't have the glamour of the worlds most expensive mainline (in terms of cost per mile) do they?
Insightful - wish I had gone to the transit museum while I was there
I used to commute from Mile End to Earls Court. I once tried taking the Elizabeth line between Whitechapel and Paddington to save time, but all the walking to the Elizabeth line platforms and around Paddington probably negated the time saved, not to mention waiting for an Edgware Road branch District line train on the way back
Engineering work is hard but selling a line to a dairy would have been a slick PR move worthy of Yerkes.
You don't want to dig too deeply at Hobb's End.
As a non-londoner, thank you for putting a lot of maps