Sometimes these mistakes actually help the industry, especially when competitors step up and use the opportunity to create real value. I love intel, but it's never good to dominate for so long. I'm excited and invested in watching them make a comeback.
Oh, I remember ICF. And what is making current Intel Foundries bad is that they won't have "industry standard" Development Software until 18A. There are of course other things that might make NVIDIA or AMD or some others hesitate to approach Intel Foundry, but there are other players who would like to have choice on leading edge node other than TSMC (and maybe Samsung - if it's not as leading edge). And this makes it harder for Intel to get customers. Not to mention huge amounts of money would be made on services other than leading edge process node. So it might be few years AFTER 18A is released that it will start to make money.
It’s not completely dead, but it’s not the bleeding edge or even the fast followers that are chasing it, and the oems are not making any significant investments. It’s something for the leaders of the commodity products that still want to scale beyond their competitors.
You used great analogies which helped me to understand the content much better. By the way, average people won't understand most of the technical contents you explain in many videos, so this analogies are quite useful.
Taking up FPGA manufacturing was a good move, even if not a huge money maker. They are a high volume product, and having back then an energy efficiency lead was quite a competitive edge.
@@Asianometry I won't try to explain it in a post, but a good start is the Free Software Foundation and look up GCC compilers/toolchains for Intel and ARM. Used to compile OS kernels from "bare metal" instruction set and machine defined by CPU core.
@@JoseLopez-hp5oo If only it were so simple. Cross compilers only work for things you still have the source code for. You would not believe just how much of our technology in the world is running binary only blobs. From games to banks, alot of companies have lost the code or were never allowed to have it in the first place. Not to mention it is not error free nor sometimes not even possible to cross compile alot of code even if you do have the source. Certain architectures simply do not have some of the low level paradigms or concepts needed to run. eg. see all of ps3 emulation. Real human cost is required to engineer around these problems
@@Asianometry The idea is that your c/c++ code can just be compiled to another architecture like ARM or Risc V. This is generally true if the code is well enough written. And lot of high quality software, especially those that already ran on multiple architectures before (like PowerPC, Sparc, ....) can do that. But a lot of software was not written that well. Apple's first transition from PowerPC to Intel x86 was also plagued a lot by this. But the second transition to ARM was a lot smoother because very old software already had a transition that eliminated these kinds of bugs from the first transition and new software was often already multiplatform (e.g. also running on multiple phone). In a way it is similar to foundries. A thing that Ian Cutress (@techtechpotato) stressed is that in the past, you needed to use Intel's own software to build for Intel's fab. Only recently they started really supporting industry standard software like from Synopsis. But it is only a first step to be able to use Intel as alternative Fab without having to redo the whole design in a completely different software.
I think the key point for Intel is to control costs. Even that means less custom foundry revenue. Treats its foundry assets as its OWN insurance for geo-instability. If you only pay for your own insurance and not pay others, you save costs.
Has @Asianometry ever done a video on how companies work in collaboration with chip producers? Not sure if there is any collaboration though, maybe they just provide a schematic/design/photomask or something and that is it, but if there if a feedback cycle, that would be interesting to get an insight into how that might look like.
If you want to make any semi-custom chip (so using existing company IP and your own IP - Sony might be example with PS5, where most of the stuff is AMD's, but there is also Sony IP) - they have to collaborate heavily. Once they choose the Foundry (which is usually one of the first choices to make), they also work with them. Because they need to design their chips in such a way that Fab can produce it. So you try to use as much of what types of transistors foundry offers - but sometimes it's impossible and foundry has to add additional types of transistors to it's list (and then there is whole question, who's IP said transistors are - whether foundry can also use them for other designs etc.). If you make custom chip than it's only your IP and the foundry - much riskier, but if you're lucky and competent, you might be able to have slightly less costs on collaboration. Though such collaboration brings a lot of experienced engineers etc. so there are few companies that decide to build their own chips right from the start, unless they are very simple. And there was a video from Asianometry on IDM or EDM as those things are called - which are basically Companies and Foundries programs to design chip using their standard libraries. So that you can see if you can make such a chip and if there are changes needed, is it a better decision to ask foundry to add additional libraries (costly) or whether you cut out said capability from your chip (capability loss) or if it's possible to design what you want in sub-optimal manner using standard libraries (you have capability and the cost will likely be in performance and/or power use and/or surface area of the chip). Sorry if it's a bit complicated. I tried to write as short of an answer as possible. This is still simplified, but if you didn't know how those things worked it should give you decent idea of how it does work.
From bad timing to self sabotage. Do you believe that Intel will bounce back? From their latest products, ARM, management, even its stagnant stock price. Calzone with Pizza ingredients sounds like a good idea though
Damn you for the food analogies. I'm watching this in bed after already brushing my teeth and you are making me hungry. I'll come back tomorrow when I'm less famished.
I thought it was funny that the first variant mentioned is cheese pizza, but the graphic that accompanies it is some sort of "everything" pizza, about as far from a plain cheese pizza as it gets.
It's like walking through Ikea. I always budget an extra five bucks for any trip to Ikea, assuming I'll stop for meatballs. It's too hard not to, after smelling them the entire trip.
My cpu is i5-14500 that means the process used is 10nm. 10nm is a decade old technology. Why does one of the most recent cpu i5-14500 use a decade old technology? Even if 10nm has been improved roughly equivalent to TSMC's "7nm", that's still 9 years old technology. I don't get it.
@@umer.on.youtube Even before that, AMD absolutely had chips that were competitive at certain price points, as well as rare moments of market leadership. AMD was behind overall. "AMD was shit" is a bit much.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for the video. I love all your photolithography specials. We all hope you feel better soon.
Wow Otellini was complacent on the Arm threat
Sometimes these mistakes actually help the industry, especially when competitors step up and use the opportunity to create real value. I love intel, but it's never good to dominate for so long. I'm excited and invested in watching them make a comeback.
Me too.....makes me wonder if a similar reversal will happen with NVIDIA.,.or with TSMC?
Wow... Thank you. I've had this question for nearly 20 years. Many many thanks for taking the time and effort to answer so effectively
Oh, I remember ICF.
And what is making current Intel Foundries bad is that they won't have "industry standard" Development Software until 18A. There are of course other things that might make NVIDIA or AMD or some others hesitate to approach Intel Foundry, but there are other players who would like to have choice on leading edge node other than TSMC (and maybe Samsung - if it's not as leading edge). And this makes it harder for Intel to get customers. Not to mention huge amounts of money would be made on services other than leading edge process node. So it might be few years AFTER 18A is released that it will start to make money.
No 450mm pizza pies sorry
It’s not completely dead, but it’s not the bleeding edge or even the fast followers that are chasing it, and the oems are not making any significant investments. It’s something for the leaders of the commodity products that still want to scale beyond their competitors.
You used great analogies which helped me to understand the content much better. By the way, average people won't understand most of the technical contents you explain in many videos, so this analogies are quite useful.
Get well soon!
Great narration speed. Really drives the cadence of your topic.
Good Synopsys
Taking up FPGA manufacturing was a good move, even if not a huge money maker. They are a high volume product, and having back then an energy efficiency lead was quite a competitive edge.
Before the note about the cold I could have sworn the audio was slowed by 5-10% or you were experimenting with an AI voice replication.
Keep up the great work buddy.
Hardware guy never heard of a cross compiler..rewriting not needed. Perhaps that would make a great video, GCC and the free software foundation.
Cross compiler? Never heard of it
@@Asianometry I won't try to explain it in a post, but a good start is the Free Software Foundation and look up GCC compilers/toolchains for Intel and ARM. Used to compile OS kernels from "bare metal" instruction set and machine defined by CPU core.
@@JoseLopez-hp5oo If only it were so simple. Cross compilers only work for things you still have the source code for. You would not believe just how much of our technology in the world is running binary only blobs. From games to banks, alot of companies have lost the code or were never allowed to have it in the first place.
Not to mention it is not error free nor sometimes not even possible to cross compile alot of code even if you do have the source. Certain architectures simply do not have some of the low level paradigms or concepts needed to run. eg. see all of ps3 emulation. Real human cost is required to engineer around these problems
@@Asianometry The idea is that your c/c++ code can just be compiled to another architecture like ARM or Risc V. This is generally true if the code is well enough written. And lot of high quality software, especially those that already ran on multiple architectures before (like PowerPC, Sparc, ....) can do that. But a lot of software was not written that well.
Apple's first transition from PowerPC to Intel x86 was also plagued a lot by this. But the second transition to ARM was a lot smoother because very old software already had a transition that eliminated these kinds of bugs from the first transition and new software was often already multiplatform (e.g. also running on multiple phone).
In a way it is similar to foundries. A thing that Ian Cutress (@techtechpotato) stressed is that in the past, you needed to use Intel's own software to build for Intel's fab. Only recently they started really supporting industry standard software like from Synopsis. But it is only a first step to be able to use Intel as alternative Fab without having to redo the whole design in a completely different software.
Hope you get better ASAP, and thanks for another video.
Sorry you have a cold. Have some tea with honey. Stay off the mic for a while....
indeed!
Mushroom mix blends, all local harvests from grocery, hemp seed, lemon balm tea.
adding ginger also helps
get well soon @asianometry
Wash down some dayquil with whisky, honey, and lemon. Chicken soup if you're hungry
My thoughts exactly.....
Intel has all the opportunity to make a comeback, they need only make an effort. I see this going like how GE did when they dropped to $5 per share.
Wasn't that what Pat Gelsinger was supposed to be doing? What's up with their board of directors? It's too bad.....
Awesome video. Hope you feel better soon.
I think the key point for Intel is to control costs. Even that means less custom foundry revenue. Treats its foundry assets as its OWN insurance for geo-instability. If you only pay for your own insurance and not pay others, you save costs.
Wonderful presentation and video. You are an amazing youtube creator.
Thank you for this video. This is what I wanted.
I had to bring this up to 1.25x speed to make it more “normal”
The audio sounds normal at 1.25
Has @Asianometry ever done a video on how companies work in collaboration with chip producers? Not sure if there is any collaboration though, maybe they just provide a schematic/design/photomask or something and that is it, but if there if a feedback cycle, that would be interesting to get an insight into how that might look like.
If you want to make any semi-custom chip (so using existing company IP and your own IP - Sony might be example with PS5, where most of the stuff is AMD's, but there is also Sony IP) - they have to collaborate heavily. Once they choose the Foundry (which is usually one of the first choices to make), they also work with them. Because they need to design their chips in such a way that Fab can produce it. So you try to use as much of what types of transistors foundry offers - but sometimes it's impossible and foundry has to add additional types of transistors to it's list (and then there is whole question, who's IP said transistors are - whether foundry can also use them for other designs etc.).
If you make custom chip than it's only your IP and the foundry - much riskier, but if you're lucky and competent, you might be able to have slightly less costs on collaboration. Though such collaboration brings a lot of experienced engineers etc. so there are few companies that decide to build their own chips right from the start, unless they are very simple.
And there was a video from Asianometry on IDM or EDM as those things are called - which are basically Companies and Foundries programs to design chip using their standard libraries. So that you can see if you can make such a chip and if there are changes needed, is it a better decision to ask foundry to add additional libraries (costly) or whether you cut out said capability from your chip (capability loss) or if it's possible to design what you want in sub-optimal manner using standard libraries (you have capability and the cost will likely be in performance and/or power use and/or surface area of the chip).
Sorry if it's a bit complicated. I tried to write as short of an answer as possible. This is still simplified, but if you didn't know how those things worked it should give you decent idea of how it does work.
Intel is like a sleeping Godzilla that a lot of people hope doesn't wake up they are still as dangerous as a cocked gun!
From bad timing to self sabotage.
Do you believe that Intel will bounce back?
From their latest products, ARM, management, even its stagnant stock price.
Calzone with Pizza ingredients sounds like a good idea though
Your channel is great!!
These food metaphors are getting out of hand! :o
Making me hungry......oh yeah, near dinnertime....
Get well!
Intel Thru Time: 😊🤫😁😂😮🤔😨😭
Damn you for the food analogies. I'm watching this in bed after already brushing my teeth and you are making me hungry. I'll come back tomorrow when I'm less famished.
For a moment, I thought that we would get an answer for the 14++++++++ maymay.
Now I want a pizza, oh, I meant high performance x86 processors on a leading edge lithography node
I thought it was funny that the first variant mentioned is cheese pizza, but the graphic that accompanies it is some sort of "everything" pizza, about as far from a plain cheese pizza as it gets.
Oh man I want a good calzone now😂
Someone was definitely hungry for pizza when they wrote this script :)
It's like walking through Ikea. I always budget an extra five bucks for any trip to Ikea, assuming I'll stop for meatballs. It's too hard not to, after smelling them the entire trip.
Intel needs to be split up into a design bereau and manufacturing foundry
I really like these videos
A Pizza Foundry....awesome
Is it just me or did ur voice change alot over the last two years :D
Can you do a video about how Samsung's foundry was able to balance core business with that of its partners compared to Intel's?
I thought intel always had it's own foundries. Do we only call it a "foundry" if they manufacture for outside companies?
Yes. A fab is a semiconductor manufacturing facility. A foundry is a contract manufacturing facility.
@@ab-lymphocite5464 thanks. It makes a lot more sense now
@ab-lymphocite5464 thanks, that makes a lot more sense now
My cpu is i5-14500 that means the process used is 10nm. 10nm is a decade old technology. Why does one of the most recent cpu i5-14500 use a decade old technology? Even if 10nm has been improved roughly equivalent to TSMC's "7nm", that's still 9 years old technology. I don't get it.
This video reminded me of why I have a preference for non-Intel CPUs. I recommended AMD and Cyrix to so many people in the 90s.
AMD was shit back then. Only after 2005 that Intel got a bit sluggish. Don't forget, INTEL powered the revolution
@@umer.on.youtube Even before that, AMD absolutely had chips that were competitive at certain price points, as well as rare moments of market leadership.
AMD was behind overall. "AMD was shit" is a bit much.
Play at 1.25 speed. You're welcome
Is it time to train your own voice model? :-)
I hated intel when they dropped their galileo - edison - curie development. they are not-as-good-as hype drivers as nvidia.
babe wake up new Lessons from Intel's First Foundry just dropped
?
👍
intel's going to make a comeback. $80 per / share in 2025!
We'll see..... [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ ͡ಠ_ಠ)̲̅$̲̅]
You mean due to hyperinflation or what?!
When you put an non engineer as your head that is end result
Early.
Get well soon!