Morden's passport was valid, it was just a while since it had been accessed. but yes, "What is that??!?" is a completely appropriate response to that ship!
I've heard it said that the Starfuries were designed after consultation with some NASA engineers about what a realistic space fighter would need to look like to maneuver in space using ordinary physics. That's why they have their rocket engines distributed far apart in that X shape, and have the ability to apply thrust in basically every direction.
Actually, i believe its the other way around. The show designed the ships and when NASA saw them on the show they contacted the creators for more information. And yes, NASA is considering the design because it is basically a perfect design.
As for "don't let him on the station" - he DOES have a valid passport [well valid ID at least] it just had not been used/updated in a while - but it was still valid. On the matter of the vision - I'd say that what she saw is what will be UNLESS someone does something to change it. So yes, the future is not set, but right now that is where things are headed. Keep in mind that she had the vision of the guy being killed by a shadow when he was just a kid - nobody understood what it meant and they all ignored the warning but in the end - she was right ... so, yes her vision of B5 can be changed, but it requires someone doing something to change it - and we don't know who or how - so it remains a valid concern for the future. I think of the visions as being like an intelligence report - we know there is "chatter" but we don't know exactly who is going to do something or what they are going to do so it helps us be on alert but it does not make the problem go away. Often visions are only meaningful in retrospect. [can you guess what is going to happen if nothing is changed? Or even how or what needs to be done to change things?]
@@brentallenlive If someone left say Earth several months or even years ago, spent all that time on a ship exploring stuff on the rim but never entered a planet or outpost in all that time (thus never passing through customs), and then suddenly appeared on the station, their passport wouldn't have been updated since they left Earth all those months or years ago, but it would still be a valid passport.
@@brentallenlive he doesn't say it is out of date, just not used recently... let us say a passport is good for 8 years and after the first year you don't use it for 6 years, that might be commented on but the passport has not yet expired. I don't know how long their passports are good for, but clearly this guy has not used his in a rather long time but not so long that it is no longer good. I can relate, I have a passport which I used once back in 2013 for a trip to Orlando and have never used again, now it is just about to expire.
Another cool feature of the Starfuries is that they have "nose" art to personalise them. Ivanova's has a Russian Imperial Eagle (as seen here), Garibaldi has tiger stripes.
@@brentallenlive There's a lot of prophesies in this show. You've now heard/seen a few of them. The first was Londo prophesying his own death at the hands of G'Kar. They're worth keeping track of, and you can decide for yourself which ones, if any, come true by the end of the series. It would be good to keep bringing them up from time to time and discussing on the podcast. Regardless, I'd say as a general rule in any context, prophesies are always open to interpretation and can probably be debated endlessly.
20% good guesses - 80% not anywhere near the mark! LOL Enjoy the show! There were SOOOOOOOOOO many things in that episode that come back in future episodes and seasons. Pay close attention to what you may think are 'throw away' lines.
Remember the simple rule: If ship be green, Vorlon be seen. If ship be black, uh, things be whack. Dude! Literally everytime I watch it I picture Londo nipping round the corner to see that shady Mister Morden, speaking into cupped hands with a suddenly embarrassed air. Super happy to see you warming to the Starfuries. I love 'em to bits. Can I get a shout-out to the excellent sound effects in B5? Okay, they're not Ben Burt hitting suspensor cables with a hammer level but they're very charcterful and instantly recognisable. They only get beefier as the show goes on.
Really? I think I’d currently have it around 5. It was good, but there were others I thought better. I’m hoping the second half of the season keeps ramping up.
@@brentallenlive Which four episodes did you like more? The reason I like this episode a lot is because it introduces some of the main plot points for the entire series.
@@brentallenlive Judging by what I've seen from several reaction/review channels, it seems most veteran viewers tend to rate this episode quite highly, whereas first timers tend to rate it somewhere between "above average" and "quite good", but no more. So I think this is one of those episodes that really improves on a rewatch after one has seen the whole show.
By the way, NASA was looking at Starfuries design as a possible one for orbital work, and its actually realistic and doable with current technology, the only question is desire to do it or lack of need - all current spaceships are atmospheric/space hybrids, they need to have normal plane wings and streamlined body. Starfury-like design is completely space bound, and we don't need those kind of ships yet. The only concession to style is the fact that the ship is arrow shaped if you look from the from the sides or the top, in real life for it to work, thrusters on wings should be in the same plane as the cabin and the center of mass, not behind it, so the whole ship would basically be a flat X. Wouldn't look as impressive on the screen
So the comment about the B5 security is both true and not. Having traveled a fair bit recently, it is definitely true that the places that need tourism/commerce tend to come across as more lax. Italy's customs was a lot more "on the job" than those in Greece. I think B5 security is definitely not very "secure", but it is pretty apt for a place that really needs people to come and visit.
I enjoyed your reaction. Sorry about life events unexpectedly popping up, believe me I get it. Hopefully the copyright gets better as you do more. I do have one question. Are you and Jeff surprised on the amount of Star Trek actors and writers who have been on this show so far.?
It wasn’t anything necessarily bad, just family obligations. I wouldn’t say we’re surprised at the amount as much as just really happy to see them when they pop up.
That was a shadow vessel at the end. As for taking the teeth out of the vision. The destruction of Babylon 5 you need to understand this is just chapter 1 of a 5 year single story.
New Customs questionaire: 1: Do you talk with needless mysterious ambiguity? 2: Do you say things like, "Alpha six-one... proceed," into your pen. 3: Are you a significant other or past-antagonist from one of our command staff's earlier placements? 4: Do you have a ridiculously sinister name like Mr Shadow or Ms Deathwalker or Monsieur Soulhunter? 5: Do you have any of those almond M&Ms, 'cos we can't get 'em over here and it's driving me nuts.
As big an episode as this is, it’s still a bit clunky in places and could’ve used some subtlety. It’s always fun to see Gerrit Graham but the “raider” captain was shit. And he’s been in other stuff, too so it’s not like he was a first-timer. Lady Ladiera, definitely giving off the Bene Geserit vibe but she’s nicer than the Reverend Mother. And Mr. Morden, this charming man. JMS basically wanted Morden to resemble Rod Serling and you can see it in his stance.
Not sure he intentionally "wanted" Wasser to have the Rod Serling presence- but after seeing the first days shooting said something to the effect of "OHMIGOD, it's Rod Serling!"- and felt it was appropriate
@@MrDdaland You’re right. I think that enigmatic quality appealed to JMS but he didn’t necessarily select Wasser with Serling in mind or coach his performance in that direction.
JMS has always been an SJW (just read his autobiography to understand why), I don't know if he included this intentionally or not but... In the future we don't have hang ups about who uses which toilet. Sinclair & Garibaldi leave the toilets whilst having a chat, as they walk in front of the huge sign that says it's the men's toilet they part to let a woman through to the men's toilet. Neither man bats an eyelid, they merely pause their chat for a second then once she's out of earshot they resume their chat. It took me about 2 decades to spot this btw.
His autobiography is a surprisingly harrowing read in parts. Not unknown for written sci-fi back then to have matter of fact things like that in the future, and JMS very much devoured written sci-fi. (For the best story woven out of gender identity read Ursula K. LeGuin's award-winning 60's novel 'Left Hand of Darkness', about an ambassador from a federation all alone on a planet amongst a people who switch between male, femle and neutral according to season. Really fascinating and kind of a gripping political thriller too.) Oh, and took me about two deccades too! :D
What's interesting is you picked up on so much (not always getting it correct) yet missed a major plot point that will be for about the rest of the show. Of course it was done very subtly and when you reach the end you'll realize races could have been reversed. There is a story that JMS approached the two actors involved and asked which storyline they wanted. They couldn't choose and so a coin toss was done. This episode really shows where those storylines begin. But its done so offhanded you don't even realize it happened.
Brent constantly trying to second-guess-predict the Babylon 5 plots based on assumptions he makes because he thinks Babylon 5 works like other shows of the 1990s, where story arcs didn't exist and things get neatly resolved at the end of each episode, is getting really tiresome. Season 1 is all set-up... a lot of things will make more sense and get pay-off in later seasons. And _all_ the prophecies come true... although not always in the way that the people who had them assumed at the time.
Morden's passport was valid, it was just a while since it had been accessed.
but yes, "What is that??!?" is a completely appropriate response to that ship!
Tell me that ship is the Narada.
"who are the shadows?"
sees a dark ship appear out of no where ...
"is that the vorlan?"
And so it begins...
What begins??? On second thought…don’t tell me. #nospoilers.
I've heard it said that the Starfuries were designed after consultation with some NASA engineers about what a realistic space fighter would need to look like to maneuver in space using ordinary physics. That's why they have their rocket engines distributed far apart in that X shape, and have the ability to apply thrust in basically every direction.
And now NASA might even name a ship build like this 'Starfury'
Actually, i believe its the other way around. The show designed the ships and when NASA saw them on the show they contacted the creators for more information. And yes, NASA is considering the design because it is basically a perfect design.
As for "don't let him on the station" - he DOES have a valid passport [well valid ID at least] it just had not been used/updated in a while - but it was still valid.
On the matter of the vision - I'd say that what she saw is what will be UNLESS someone does something to change it. So yes, the future is not set, but right now that is where things are headed. Keep in mind that she had the vision of the guy being killed by a shadow when he was just a kid - nobody understood what it meant and they all ignored the warning but in the end - she was right ... so, yes her vision of B5 can be changed, but it requires someone doing something to change it - and we don't know who or how - so it remains a valid concern for the future. I think of the visions as being like an intelligence report - we know there is "chatter" but we don't know exactly who is going to do something or what they are going to do so it helps us be on alert but it does not make the problem go away. Often visions are only meaningful in retrospect. [can you guess what is going to happen if nothing is changed? Or even how or what needs to be done to change things?]
How is a non-updated passport still valid?
@@brentallenlive If someone left say Earth several months or even years ago, spent all that time on a ship exploring stuff on the rim but never entered a planet or outpost in all that time (thus never passing through customs), and then suddenly appeared on the station, their passport wouldn't have been updated since they left Earth all those months or years ago, but it would still be a valid passport.
@@brentallenlive he doesn't say it is out of date, just not used recently... let us say a passport is good for 8 years and after the first year you don't use it for 6 years, that might be commented on but the passport has not yet expired. I don't know how long their passports are good for, but clearly this guy has not used his in a rather long time but not so long that it is no longer good. I can relate, I have a passport which I used once back in 2013 for a trip to Orlando and have never used again, now it is just about to expire.
Another cool feature of the Starfuries is that they have "nose" art to personalise them. Ivanova's has a Russian Imperial Eagle (as seen here), Garibaldi has tiger stripes.
Oh yeah!! More and more reasons to really love these things!
@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime An Omega Greek letter might be interesting.
Babylon 5 rarely resolves prophecies in the same episode 😂
Or the same season.
But prophecies can be changed… right? Cause prophecies rarely have any teeth to them in sci-fi
@@brentallenlive You may find that the key to understanding most foreshadowing & prophecies in B5 is discovering the right question to ask.
@@TokenSelf spoken like a true Vorlon.
@@brentallenlive There's a lot of prophesies in this show. You've now heard/seen a few of them. The first was Londo prophesying his own death at the hands of G'Kar. They're worth keeping track of, and you can decide for yourself which ones, if any, come true by the end of the series. It would be good to keep bringing them up from time to time and discussing on the podcast. Regardless, I'd say as a general rule in any context, prophesies are always open to interpretation and can probably be debated endlessly.
20% good guesses - 80% not anywhere near the mark! LOL Enjoy the show! There were SOOOOOOOOOO many things in that episode that come back in future episodes and seasons. Pay close attention to what you may think are 'throw away' lines.
20/80 seems like a good split. Just please never tell me which is which. :-)
"If you're watching this as we broadcast, this one might come a little late."
WB: laughs maniacally!
Yes they did
I love the fact that they gave Kiro enough time to see all of his plans come crashing down before the Shadows showed up to blast his ship.
Remember the simple rule: If ship be green, Vorlon be seen. If ship be black, uh, things be whack.
Dude! Literally everytime I watch it I picture Londo nipping round the corner to see that shady Mister Morden, speaking into cupped hands with a suddenly embarrassed air.
Super happy to see you warming to the Starfuries. I love 'em to bits. Can I get a shout-out to the excellent sound effects in B5? Okay, they're not Ben Burt hitting suspensor cables with a hammer level but they're very charcterful and instantly recognisable. They only get beefier as the show goes on.
I love this simple rule.
Brent's plot-arch theories:
Me: "You do not understand...but you will."
It was so much fun watching you scrabble for understanding.
I watched B5 when it was first shown & when the big ship appeared at the end it was the definitive WTF?!? moment!
This is probably the second best episode of the first season.
Really? I think I’d currently have it around 5. It was good, but there were others I thought better. I’m hoping the second half of the season keeps ramping up.
@@brentallenlive
Which four episodes did you like more?
The reason I like this episode a lot is because it introduces some of the main plot points for the entire series.
@@brentallenlive Judging by what I've seen from several reaction/review channels, it seems most veteran viewers tend to rate this episode quite highly, whereas first timers tend to rate it somewhere between "above average" and "quite good", but no more. So I think this is one of those episodes that really improves on a rewatch after one has seen the whole show.
@@oenrn
That sounds about right.
Signs and Portents is also the title of the whole season. Must be im-portent ;-)
But what is a portent?
@@brentallenlive It's what pors go camping in, duh.
By the way, NASA was looking at Starfuries design as a possible one for orbital work, and its actually realistic and doable with current technology, the only question is desire to do it or lack of need - all current spaceships are atmospheric/space hybrids, they need to have normal plane wings and streamlined body. Starfury-like design is completely space bound, and we don't need those kind of ships yet. The only concession to style is the fact that the ship is arrow shaped if you look from the from the sides or the top, in real life for it to work, thrusters on wings should be in the same plane as the cabin and the center of mass, not behind it, so the whole ship would basically be a flat X. Wouldn't look as impressive on the screen
I’ve heard this a few times. I may have to apply for a new job after we finish this podcast.
Best
Show
Ever!
So the comment about the B5 security is both true and not. Having traveled a fair bit recently, it is definitely true that the places that need tourism/commerce tend to come across as more lax. Italy's customs was a lot more "on the job" than those in Greece. I think B5 security is definitely not very "secure", but it is pretty apt for a place that really needs people to come and visit.
Interesting insight
I have never felt comfortable with the scene at 2:09 especially after the dock strike. COLLISION ALERT!
Fair
Love your reactions
And I love that you love them. Thanks for watching!
I enjoyed your reaction. Sorry about life events unexpectedly popping up, believe me I get it. Hopefully the copyright gets better as you do more.
I do have one question. Are you and Jeff surprised on the amount of Star Trek actors and writers who have been on this show so far.?
It wasn’t anything necessarily bad, just family obligations.
I wouldn’t say we’re surprised at the amount as much as just really happy to see them when they pop up.
That was a shadow vessel at the end. As for taking the teeth out of the vision. The destruction of Babylon 5 you need to understand this is just chapter 1 of a 5 year single story.
Perhaps you should have called this watch-along "Jumping at Shadows"? I think you called every new thing/person "are you the shadows?".
New Customs questionaire:
1: Do you talk with needless mysterious ambiguity?
2: Do you say things like, "Alpha six-one... proceed," into your pen.
3: Are you a significant other or past-antagonist from one of our command staff's earlier placements?
4: Do you have a ridiculously sinister name like Mr Shadow or Ms Deathwalker or Monsieur Soulhunter?
5: Do you have any of those almond M&Ms, 'cos we can't get 'em over here and it's driving me nuts.
It’s a grim! They’re not real. A myth.
He asked almost every new thingp/person "are you the shadows?" When the actual Shadows appeared, he asked "is that the Vorlons?"
Not the Vorlon.....The Shadows
What do you want?
Bone flutes, specifically of a Centauri make
The questions of Babylon 5: "What do you want?" , , , and later on . Attn: Questions redacted for Spoiler Integrity.
Truth! Justice! Freedom! and a hard boiled egg!
whoops, wrong universe
hot water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper
Nope that's not right either.
"A really nice sandwich please."
"Here you go."
"Ta! Oooh, he's nice in't he?"
As big an episode as this is, it’s still a bit clunky in places and could’ve used some subtlety. It’s always fun to see Gerrit Graham but the “raider” captain was shit. And he’s been in other stuff, too so it’s not like he was a first-timer. Lady Ladiera, definitely giving off the Bene Geserit vibe but she’s nicer than the Reverend Mother.
And Mr. Morden, this charming man. JMS basically wanted Morden to resemble Rod Serling and you can see it in his stance.
100% a Reverend Mother, but an older one that is kinda fed up with the BG BS
Not sure he intentionally "wanted" Wasser to have the Rod Serling presence- but after seeing the first days shooting said something to the effect of "OHMIGOD, it's Rod Serling!"- and felt it was appropriate
@@MrDdaland You’re right. I think that enigmatic quality appealed to JMS but he didn’t necessarily select Wasser with Serling in mind or coach his performance in that direction.
Clunky and needing subtlety seems apropos for this whole season
@@brentallenlive It does get better.
The “chapter name” for the second season is a bit of a spoiler. It won’t be by the time season 2 begins, but best avoid looking that up for now.
Will do
JMS has always been an SJW (just read his autobiography to understand why), I don't know if he included this intentionally or not but...
In the future we don't have hang ups about who uses which toilet.
Sinclair & Garibaldi leave the toilets whilst having a chat, as they walk in front of the huge sign that says it's the men's toilet they part to let a woman through to the men's toilet. Neither man bats an eyelid, they merely pause their chat for a second then once she's out of earshot they resume their chat.
It took me about 2 decades to spot this btw.
He literally says in the DVD commentary that it was a shooting mistake. Stop trying to push political messages into every little detail.
I'd never spotted that until reading your post. Thanks for that.
His autobiography is a surprisingly harrowing read in parts. Not unknown for written sci-fi back then to have matter of fact things like that in the future, and JMS very much devoured written sci-fi. (For the best story woven out of gender identity read Ursula K. LeGuin's award-winning 60's novel 'Left Hand of Darkness', about an ambassador from a federation all alone on a planet amongst a people who switch between male, femle and neutral according to season. Really fascinating and kind of a gripping political thriller too.) Oh, and took me about two deccades too! :D
How very Gene Roddenberry of him
In the commentaries, he points it out as a director's error.
What's interesting is you picked up on so much (not always getting it correct) yet missed a major plot point that will be for about the rest of the show. Of course it was done very subtly and when you reach the end you'll realize races could have been reversed.
There is a story that JMS approached the two actors involved and asked which storyline they wanted. They couldn't choose and so a coin toss was done. This episode really shows where those storylines begin. But its done so offhanded you don't even realize it happened.
Brent constantly trying to second-guess-predict the Babylon 5 plots based on assumptions he makes because he thinks Babylon 5 works like other shows of the 1990s, where story arcs didn't exist and things get neatly resolved at the end of each episode, is getting really tiresome. Season 1 is all set-up... a lot of things will make more sense and get pay-off in later seasons. And _all_ the prophecies come true... although not always in the way that the people who had them assumed at the time.
The bad guys alone, nope - agents of the shadows are never alone
Whats a shadow? such a simple question. A great experiences awaits you. This show is some of the best scifi you might ever encounter.