How to Bend a 3 Point Saddle in Conduit
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2023
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Installing conduit is quickly becoming a lost art these days with MC Cable doing most of the work for branch circuitry on most jobs. However, EMT for homeruns and even the branch circuitry on many jobs is still very relevant! And of all the bends available to electricians, there is nothing more daunting for the commercial electrician than saddle bends. In today’s episode of Electrician U, Dustin walks us through how to bend a 3-point saddle in a fashion that makes it very easy to understand!
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Before we get into offset bending basics, let’s take a moment to talk about aluminum conduit. Today’s sponsor- Penn Aluminum Conduit & EMT- makes some of the best aluminum conduit on the market. But why choose aluminum EMT over steel EMT? Well, it’s considerably lighter therefore it takes less labor to install and reduces wear and tear on your field staff hauling conduit around. Next, it’s much easier to bend than steel, again, making it less strenuous for your staff to install and using less labor. It’s also cheaper than steel currently, so it helps on the bottom line. Penn Aluminum has even engineered a coating for the inside of the conduit called Blue Lightning that helps with wire pulling and eliminates the snagging most often associated with aluminum conduit. Well worth it to try!
A saddle bend is helpful for having your conduit go UP and OVER an obstruction that is in your conduit path. 3-point saddles are usually used for obstacles 2” or less, while 4-point saddles are used for larger obstacles. We will be focusing on 3-point saddles today. The general idea is to have a 22-1/2” degree bend where the center of the obstacle is and opposing 10-degree bends to bring the conduit to the original plane it was on. When complete, you should have something resembling a U shape.
The first step in the process is to measure height of the obstacle and the centerline distance from the end of the conduit already installed. For today’s instruction, we will be using a 2” height. Make a line all the way around the conduit as the 2 opposing bends will be bent on the opposite side of the conduit. For the next bends, use 4” for the 1st inch of obstacle and 6” for the second inch of obstacle. Shrinkage will come into play here so a helpful dimension to use is ¼” for each inch of obstacle- or ½” for our example. So, make a mark 10-1/2” on either side of the first centerline mark you made. Again, carry the line all the way around the conduit.
Now, it’s time to bend. Insert the conduit into the bender and put the centerline mark on the notch in the bender shoe that is near the teardrop/diamond symbol. Put pressure on the conduit close to the bender shoe (not far away as this will bend the pipe further away and will cause difficulties) and bend the conduit until it is parallel to the 22-1/2 degree line. Slide the conduit (without taking it out of the shoe or turning the shoe around) until the next mark is on the arrow. Roll the conduit 180 degrees (sight down the conduit to ensure its straight and not dog-legged) and again put pressure close to the shoe but only bend until the conduit is parallel to the 10-degree line. Next, pull the conduit out of the shoe, flip it end for end and reinsert it into the shoe. Face the bender shoe towards the bends you have already made, sight down the conduit to ensure all the bends are straight (not dog-legged) and again bend until you are at the 10-degree mark. Bend complete!
A pro tip when bending conduit is to use pencil as the marks can be erased once complete. Another pro tip is if you MUST use a sharpie, once the bends are made, write over your line you made on the conduit and while the sharpie marks are still wet, rub it off! It just looks much better without bending lines once the conduit assembly is installed!
We hope this has been helpful in understanding how to bend a 3-point saddle in conduit. Is there a topic you would like to see discussed on Electrician U? Leave us a comment in the comments section and let us know. Please continue to follow Dustin Stelzer and Electrician U as we are constantly updating our content to assist our followers in becoming the best electricians that they can be.
#electrician #electrical #electricity #how #to #bend #3point #saddle #conduit
I always measure to center of obstruction, place mark on conduit at that exact point, then I multiply the height of the obstruction by 2.5 and take that number and go that distance off both sides of the original center mark, and then I use the push through method, first bend on star (22 degrees), second bend on notch (45 degrees) third bend on arrow (22 degrees).
Don’t forget to account for shrinkage :)
@@joshhowie4071they did, that’s why they multiplied by 2.5 but its good you brought it up because a lot of people forget that especially newer folk.
thanks boss saved me 10 mins
Would that be 3/16s per height of obstruction per inch of rise four shrinkage? Then add that to the center of obstruction Mark? Then 2.5 times height to get the outside marks???
@@joshhowie4071 if you use this method you don’t have to factor in the 3/16” per inch of rise for shrinkage. Just make sure you do star, notch, arrow.
EXCELLENT JOB working those camera angles. This is way clearer than watching my instructor in trades school demonstrate this in front of a class of 30 people. Thank you Dustin!
The shrinkage on a 3point saddle is 3/16" for every inch of rise. Never mind I should keep watching until I comment. I use the notch and bend a 45 and 22.5 on the arrows
Depends on the degree of saddle. You can do a 45 deg center bend and 2-22.5’s. Or a 30 deg center bend and 2-15’s. If you wanted you could even do a 60 degree center bend and 2-30’s. It’s the angle of bend that determines the shrinkage per inch of saddle/offset.
Yes, the only thing I would add to this is to find shrink you use the formula shrink= angle/120.
Example 30/120=.25
1/4” per inch of height
Ex 2: 45/120= .375
3/8” per inch of rise
Obstacle is at 20” off the end and 3” tall. Then make center mark at 21 1/8”
@@Ephesians-ts8ze Exactly. Electrician U apparently doesn't understand this and proceeds to mess up on his tutorial.
Thank you for posting this
Im ~1 1/2 year into this trade and have always worked in industrial setting where we run only rigid, aluminum or stainless depending on if its a wet area or not. So ive always used a power bender except for when its time to bend saddles, which i struggle with. After watching your video it looks like i am overbending
Just wanted to come & say this worked like a charm using the notch worked perfect !!!
From the center mark where did you come up with 10.5 inches both directions for the 10 degree bends?
is it just me or does anyone wonder if that bend would of ended up coming out right ? Where he initially made his center mark ( I think it was 57'') and then did all that calculating just to still have the same initial center mark defeats the purpose. The point is and please correct me if I'm wrong... is for the center mark to to be past 57'' after doing the calculations so that after the shrinkage occurs it ends up being back at 57''. Hope i explained my doubt right
Exactly. He got Me all confused! You add the shrinkage to that center line right?
So the object is 2 inches. 2 inches for every inch so 4 inches. Plus half a inch for shrinkage. Where does the last 6 inch number come from?
I’m also confused about that
That’s where I got lost too.
same
Yep
Same
Thanks Dustin. I’m a super green apprentice and your videos help a lot. Your explanations ate very clear. Thanks
Where did you get the 6 added inches from?
Good teaching, especially for beginners.. I teach my apprentices the push thru method
Dude, you add the shrink to the center mark. If the center of your obstruction is at 57", and you don't add the shrink to that, your center bend won't line up with the center of the obstruction. You have to add that 1/4", or whatever the shrink may be with the degree of bends you are using, to that center mark. So your center mark would be 57 1/4" to account for shrinkage.
In your example, it doesn't matter because you can move the obstruction to be perfectly center.
@nikogarcia3249 how does the shrinkage effect your measurements in a 4 point saddle?
@@awood965 same way, depending on the degree of bends you are using. But no one cares on a 4 point saddle because you can't really tell if you're a 1/4" off of center. It's very noticeable on a 3 point saddle, however.
@nikogarcia3249 thankyou sir good info
Thank you so much I was looking for someone else to catch this thought it was just me lol.
There is more than one way to cook a burger 😂
I wonder if it's easier to think of it as an offset so if you need your measured clearance just to add the shrinkage of your 1/4" on both sides so you can scale it to other bend radi. So like 45 and 22.5 is going to be 2x offset calculation plus shrinkage?
Im pretty sure it goes (and this is how I've always done it)
Step 1? measure middle point
Step 2: ???
Step 3: offset
real
Pro tip, use a dry erase marker. Ive seen many bends with pencil marks left on it.
i was going to say that also
Pro tip: just rub off the pencil mark with your finger. If it's to high for you too reach then it's too high for you to see it.
Nice
I use whatever I have because I could care less as long as the bend is correct conduit is always dirty no matter what when you buy it.
I don't care either way.
@@davidcooper4385you definitely don’t just sit in your house all day pretending
Why did you add the 6 inches after the 4 1/2 shrinkage
Thank you brother
Rubbing alcohol / isporopanol dissolves permanent marker/Sharpie.
I learned that one in college chem lab, and have used it many times since.
I've even seen people use hand sanitizer (usually ethyl alcohol/ethanol, the same as drinking alcohol) to dissolve Sharpie.
Lots of organic solvents dissolve it, since it's really not so "permanent" at all
pvc glue will as well if the plumbers are around
Or any shit body spray
So 4" for the first inch.
6" for the second inch
Would it be another 6" for a 3" saddle?
Measure 16 3/4" from center?
Why does my center mark never line up i use the notch for my center and it’s always off on one side ? I’m using a 1” Klein bender
Thanks bro been a cool minute since I did a saddle 😂
Apprentice here with local 26 first year. conduit test next week
I’m confused where are we getting 4” if you have a 2” object?
He messed up on that
what do you mean the bend looks parallel to the 22 1/2 line ????????????? should the bend be with the 22 1/2 line ???
May I know why you mark it at 6"? The 4" is double the size of the object which is 2". What about he 6"?
Angles were not discussed, so measurements made little sense to me. For ever inch add a quarter for shrinkage, why? Why didn't you state what height you had to clear?
I’m a ElectricianU fan but the info in this video could have been explained better. I’m not sure why he used a 1/4” of shrink per inch of rise when a 10 degree bend has a 1/16” of shrink per inch of rise. So since he had to clear a 2” obstruction the distance from the end of the conduit to the center of the saddle bend would be whatever that theoretical distance is plus 1/8”. The shrink itself is derived from your outside bend angle and not your center bend angle.
@@lazarevic95thanks
@@lazarevic95 because he doesn't know the standard way of doing a 3 point saddle.
How did you add for shrinkage if your center mark never changed.
That’s what I’m thinking, this video was honestly so confusing and he did things the hard , confusing way
I've installed dryers in Penn Aluminum
Interesting, but is "amperage" a word?
Way more complicated than it should be bro.. just double the height adjust for shrinkage and 45 degree and 2-22.5 degree and done
yeah thats the way i was always taught.
Cheers for this comment. Told me all I needed to know without watching a 12 minute video in the field
I got confused. I thought you were doing a 30 degree bend cuz you just double the height of whatever object your bending. Then i got lost when you were bending. I still dont know why you chose tear drop on the middle, and which was was the correct way. And then chose the arrow on the other side
I don't know man you made that very complicated with that fourth extra Mark you canceled out
Working close to that open panel man
It’s no wires in it
yeah you can clearly tell it has no wires feeding either panel. come on now haha
As a pre app, these fucking saddle bends are my nemesis. If I could banish them all to hell I absolutely would
Step 1: use bending app that calculates center adjustment, shrink and distance between bends for you.
Step 2: ????
Step 3: make your boss profit
How’d you get 10.5”
I asked the same question. Why did he add 6 more inches? Where’d that measurement come from
Would you always add 6" for the method he's using?
I believe he's adding 6" because he's bending 3/4" EMT, the lines you center your bender on should be a certain distance from where you want the bend depending on the size of the conduit - 5" for 1/2", 6" for 3/4", 8" for 1"
Excellent demonstration
The tear drop is intended to be the center of a 45 degree bend
i seen other video where the guy still used the teardrop for a 45 degree bend
Definitely is, first bend: 45° ,second and third: 22.5
If you have isopropyl alcohol it will take sharpie off but if you don't have that, use some hand sanitizer
He’s listening! 🔥🔥🔥 more practical ☝🏽
From the start of this video that 57 inches you measured will not be 57 after the bends, right? Because of the shrinkage.
Wait he didn't bend to the 22.5 line? I thought you were supposed to bend so it's basically on the center Line of the mark
hand sanitizer/alcohol/pvc cleaner will happily take the sharpie off, just be careful since it's flammable and will eat many surfaces.
and of course, the best trick for most everything sticky, stuck, stained is WD40!
Going over your sharpie mark with a fresh sharpie makes a good sharpie eraser too. Just write over your previous mark and immediately wipe it away. Poof, gone!
Other pro tip. If you need to remove sharpie. Get some hand sanitizer. The alcohol will break down the sharpie ink and it will all but disappear
Isopropyl alcohol will remove sharpie with ease. It's the solvent used in the marker to begin with. Wipes right off.
Pro tip just throw more sharpie over it then wipe away immediately comes right off
@@izzywashington5461 then you have more residue.. Using clean cheap solvent is the Pro tip to do things right..
Where the fuck did the 6 come from my guy I'm confused AF. I thought you had to multiply by 2.5? Ok I understand if you multiply by just 2, that'll give you your first mark at 4, but where does 6 come from??
Xlnt video ,seen people bend 22 ,45,22 lol,well done..
my pro tip to your pro tip to OP ...pro tip is you can ether use a little bit of wd40 on sharpie or you can use dry ease maker over top of sharpie...more you know
Pro tip to your pro tip, sharpie erases sharpie
Shrink is calculated by
Shrink = angle/120
Example 30/120 = .25
Add 1/4” per inch of rise to
center mark
Ex 2: 45/120 = .375
Add 3/8” per inch of rise to center
An obstacle 3” tall and 20” off end. Center angle at 45 degree. Center mark would be 21 1/8” off end.
As a note shrink does not change the height of the bend. That is calculated when using multiplier associated with center bend
Rubbing alcohol will also remove sharpie.
1ST GRADE PENCIL. BIG FITS IN HAND AND HAS WIDE LEAD.
man all i heard was “inch inch inch inches inches “ im so confused
U lost me in 2 min of the video
Facts lol 😂
You marked the middle and then started putting lines at 10.5. This video was pretty confusing to me. Maybe I missed something, but I don't think going from marking the center to calculating shrink before calculating (telling us how) line 2 and 3 are made is helpful. Unless I missed something.
Im more confused after watching this video. Usually that isn't the case with your tutorials. My suggestion would be to remove this and do it over with more detailed explanation.
I'm confused on how you got 4'' and 6''. Your object is 2'' and your degree is 22. Wouldn't the math for the distance be around 5"? If you object is 2'' and you measure out 4'', doesnt that mean the multiplier is 2? Multiplier of 2 is for 30 degree bends right?
Significant shrinkage
I WAS IN THE POOL
What about with 1” pipe?
3 point saddle is my worst enemy 😭
I thought u add 3/16 for every inch of your height? Let’s say I need 3 inches to go over, ? I’d add 9/16 to my 3 inches so that would be 3 inch’s and 9/16 and my sides would be 3 inches times 2.5 and that’s where I’d make my side bends at?
If only George Costanza knew about your channel
I’m not fond of the aluminum conduit I’ve used. Always changes the color of my hands.
I HATED bending aluminum. It's almost like they manufactured kinks into it, waiting for an opportunity to ruin your whole stick.
Over thinking lol,union boyz i work with measure thier way i do it another still comes out Same bend,UNION sparkys can't troubleshoot lol..
Confusing
Alcohol swabs from the pharmacy also easily erase sharpie. Permanent marker isn't Permanent if you know the chemistry.
Im a glazier I have no idea
0:34
1:10
1:39
2:14
4:53
5:45
way he explains the measurements are confusing. Simplify it with some kind of chart
Seems like you was not taught the correct steps and calculations to do a 3 point saddle. 1/4" is the shrinkage and 2 is the multiplier for a 30 degree offset. You were suppose to use two 30 degree bends and one 60 degree bend for your calculations. Instead, you used two 10 degree bends and one 22.5 degree bend to make your 3 point saddle. The shrinkage for a 10 degree offset is 1/16" and the multiplier is 6. It's a 2 inch diameter object so you will have a total shrinkage of 1/4". You need to mark 2 equal distances from each side of your center mark, which will be your multiplier for a 10 degree offset (which is 6) multiplied by 2. So your 2 distances from each side of the center mark is 6x2= 12". The 12" markings on each side of your center mark will be where you do your 2 other bends. If the distance is 4' on one side to the center of your obstruction and 5' on the other side to the center of your obstruction, you need to add your shrink accommodation on both sides which will make them 4' 1/8" and 5' 1/8".
Nice bending but to fuckin complicated I’m going to find another avenue for my conductors to travel.
I must be dumb I didn’t get it
This isn’t right
Not really explaining anything
Lmao I was thinking the same
So so wrong man
Bro lay off the blow
You talk too much.