Concrete thickness explained! - The Barndominium show E136
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- Опубликовано: 20 июн 2019
- Erik explains in detail the difference between 4" and 6" concrete slabs and how 4" can be drastically stronger than 6" if built properly.
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#Barndominium
#Concrete
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My wife and I have this argument all the time......
😂
😂😂😂
Great Video! Forgive me for the intrusion, I am interested in your thoughts. Have you researched - Canackenzie Astounded Cure (should be on google have a look)? It is an awesome one of a kind guide for building better sheds and master woodworking without the hard work. Ive heard some extraordinary things about it and my friend after many years got cool success with it.
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Hahahaha
"Have your slab engineered" -- the most valuable part of this video. Following local building codes will generally keep you out of trouble. Knowing the subgrade soil characteristics is crucial -- they may lead you to build over code. If you're using reinforcing in a slab, always support on some kind of chair or concrete brick (with compressive strength greater than your concrete.)
Was going to comment the exact thing. If it’s engineered, it takes the guesswork out and in my town they over engineer everything. In one instance, we had some sign base caissons engineered and they were at multiple locations. So they took the worst possible case base material and everything had to conform to those standards. Lazy but works. For a 4’ tall by 6’ wide sign, the caisson was 4’wide x 8’ deep, however we got away with making one or two 6’ wide by 4-5’ deep cause we hit limestone or bedrock and could only make it wider. Still way overbuilt imo.
Extremely well rounded analysis. Anything complex has to many variables to explain in a quick youtube video but you hit the nail on the head.
This guy hasn't got a clue !! Nothing he says holds water because he keeps changing the FACTS !
I just did a chicken coop/small barn 12x12. Did a 6 inch slab with fiber reinforcement. 3500 psi concrete. I couldn’t afford rebar, but my neighbor had cattle panels he was looking to get rid of. Not sure of gauge size but they’re roughly pencil thickness. I cut them to size and threw them in the hole, they sit a couple inches up from the bottom of the slab. It’s bulletproof for what it is
You got fat chickens?😂
No such thing as overbuilt I always say!
Eric you always do a great job providing education and instruction of your craft - keep up the outstanding work!
I wish you would come back to this channel for construction videos again. Your one of the reasons I do what I do.
Excellent presentation. Informative and helpful. Thank you for taking the time to create and provide this information.
Good info! Matt over on the build show has some really good videos showing the process from A to Z on how/why support beams or even columns are a must.
Sort of disappointed in that show over the last couple years, seems he's jumping on new tech before it's proven. So I don't really trust what Matt puts out.
@@fordguyfordguy He also shills like crazy for one vendor after another.
As an architect I studied 5 years and another 2 to get the degree. Now there are tables that consider the resistance of the concrete, steel reinforcement you use and gives the load it can support. Also the sub base of gravel and sand over compacted soil. In any case slabs are not considered as supporting the framework of the building, you need foundations. For an house, 3" is enough with an reinforcement mesh and a good leveled compacted sub base. It is not a floating slab on a high rise bi¡building.
It's fascinating material you offer to your audience. Thank you very much for contributing. A heartfelt thanks!
I’m planning for residential hobby shop and low and behold it’s Erik Cortina!!!!! Love your [now] channels .
Good explanation, i would have really liked to see an actual concrete demonstration to show strength differences between fiber mesh and rebar/wire
Great information. We are considering building a slab for a swim spa/ hot tub on
ground that has had an above ground pool weight on it for many years. This information is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks 🙏
It's important about soil type, following code due to location, how big the slab is and how much load its going to withstand. Some cities requires you to dig down at least 4 feet down regardless due to following frost line code.
How much does a soil sample cost usually? After analyzing don’t they usually write a report and recommend the type of pad and slab too?
I thought my dad was crazy going with high psi, fiber, wire mesh, AND rebar for his driveway. We spent a month prepping, easily 100+ hours walking a compactor. But 15 years later not a single crack, And it does rise a good inch or 2 during a cold winter. dont remember exact size but it was ~35yds of concrete @ 4"
100 hours running a compactor yea okay liar
@@sharpshooternick we spent over a month prepping, worst summer i can remember, we rented the compactor for 2 weeks and ran it every day. neighbor was pissed
@@ganzeytyler liar
@@sharpshooternick like i care what some dumbass like you thinks 😂
@@sharpshooternickYou seem like a nice fellow, Nick.
Great video
So many variables. Same goes with compaction of underneath soil and preparation.
The basic structural analysis is that a horizontal support element incurs bending forces, which are really compound of compression at the top of the element and tension at the bottom. And material-wise, concrete is exceptionally strong in compression but its worthless in tension it pulls apart like dirt.... in contrast, steel cable is exceptionally strong in tension but worthless in compression, sorta like string. So how it works is, if you embed some grade of steel near the bottom of the slap, some grade of steel with good tensile strength, then you make the entire slap vastly stronger than if you just poured concrete all by itself.
I love this video. Info well presented.
Good stuff. Getting ready to build
A retirement Barndo on 12 acres
in Southeast Texas. We want it
done right.
Smart and clear info delivered really good, thanks.
You are correct. Sub base underneath needs compacted down. Remember on slabs fiberglass mesh in the mix also helps strengthen it.
I remember my late fathers company (god rest his soul), laying some HUGE reinforced Heavy load bearing Monolithic floors at a Rolls Royce engineering factory 12 inch deep. 8 inch of concrete with a 4 inch Granite topping laid on top before the concrete fully sets They were more like a 'Work of Art' than just a floor.
I sold a bunch of material on a Rolls Royce plant in VA years ago (maybe the same one your reffering too). That was a crazy project! Some factory slabs were 18" thick, super flat floors with no expansion joints and round isolation joints at columns rather than typical diamonds. They also had heavy duty, felt isolation fabric surrounding all precision equipment pads. Pretty cool stuff
@@vaystation9059 yes, some of those floors were 18" thick and they were all super flat and spot on level too. Laid in large bays separated by rubberised boarders. Each bay was joined to the other with steel male and female reinforcement sleeves to allow for letteral movement caused by vibrations but also to stop any up and down movement. I don't know what they built there because Rolls Royce build a lot more than just car engines. Ships, Tanks, Plane and Rocket engines et cetera. But I highly doubt that particular factory was built to make car engines. Reinforced Concrete is strong but 4 inch Granite toppings is a Whole different level of 'Strong'. I don't think you'd need floors like that to build car engines. But I don't know, it was a long time ago.
Yeah that's crazy engineering even the best would have many challenges with that project!!!
Thank you so much for great information! Love the videos!
Good info Eric! As always, well presented info
Good general summary on dynamics of a slab.
This is why I watch your videos . I always get the information I need. Wish you guys were in Arkansas.
that was really cool. Just learned a good bit, and I'm sure there is more to learn. Thanks
Great video Eric! Thanks
Years ago I worked for a contractor that didn't care about the specs he built things his way so make sure that the contractor follows the specifications listed and make sure the inspector knows what he's doing also.
Erik: I dont think there is anyone else in North America who knows more about cement or foundations than you and your company. Been watching you for several years now....and always the information you share!
I love it when you get under cut in job then when it all goes wrong the home owner contacts you asking if you can fit! lol
It helps a lot and creates more questions 😁 I cannot seem to find a specification for spacing of the beams under the slab. Example: 30x40 garage, how many beams should there be and in what arrangement?
very good info, worth a some texas barbecue for sure
Excellent demonstration.
👍👍👍👍👍
Very well explained, thanks for the info.
Thank you
I'm going to go with a 10" slab for my garden shed with fiber and mesh sandwiched by two grids of #6 rebar just to be safe!
Is this for a timber or brick/block build
@@jonathanmcrae3728 Rail track studs and 3/4" steel plate sheathing..
Don’t forget to vibrate!
Put it on piles too to be safe
@@aliveandwell2078 that what she said
Thank you for that diminstration. It was very helpful.
Another awesome video! 👌🏼💯
This is not a slab-on-grade demonstration it is a beam demonstration. Slabs on grade do not span accross
two points and do not experience significant deflection. You will never see someone "Karate chop " a block sitting on the ground. The rebar is added to increase tensile strength, to distribute the load across a bigger surface area by tying or pulling the
concrete together.
What a good informative video!
So when talking pressure it comes back to the MPa in the mix. Higher the MPa the stronger the concrete. Here in Australia where I work we use from 15 MPa up to about 60 Mpa.
Fantastic video
Great explanation sir!
Depends on your mix design and restyle placement and size.
You need to let the grass grow long before pouring your 4in slab so the grass fibers will strengthen the slab and be sure to use extra water so it flows level..
And lots of good clay to pack it down....
This guy was a contractor in haiti before the earthquake ....
Don’t forget the leveler powder, so it levels good
How about putting rocks under the concrete slab?
Gravel or cinder both good choices
Great video! Thank you very much for your help
You’re welcome.
You're absolutely correct about it is how you build it. My plan has been using 2 foot of crush recycled concrete With number 6 Rebar on 12 inch centers And concrete That has steel fiber with water reducer 12 inches thick Slab.
This was great! Thank you!
Thanks for the breakdown
Very interesting! I learn so much on your channel!!
Thank you.
Nice to learn all the difference materials used for foundation or drive ways - You got inches to consider and then you got PSI which the larger number is better, then you have material used for mesh, fiber mesh, and rebar - A lot of new materials are now being used for Mesh and Rebar which will not rust like old material and is much lighter and easier to work with - But as everything you get what you pay for...$$$
Explained very well thank you.
I have a challenge I've been doing concrete for 27yrs.you should not been slabs unless it's 6 sack .winter ,summer, autumn, spring. There is many verifications you can add ,wind is your worst enemy. I love you guys I've watch you on you barndominings for the last 5yrs maybe I'm impressed love you guys
Water is your worse enemy
It's stronger if you put it to sleep for 28 days than finish it
The amount of Portland in the mix. A higher percentage that's represented and contained in the overall mixture of sand, stone, calcium, & fiber, and the sum of those also reflects a variation that increases the strength, and the bond those components have as they cure.
Good info. On a 28x40 garage floor poured inside the foundation walls. 4" thk... do I need beams poured and if so how many and spacing? Thx for your help
Great video but a little unclear. When you reinforce the slab with beams, are those beams directly under the load (of, say, the interior walls), or are they just in a grid pattern. Would a “waffle” foundation, with intersecting beams every 12’ in both directions, be sufficient to support interior walls that may *not* be directly over the beams?
Nice, can you go into soil samples a little bit more and what sand, clay, silt require for slab thickness/beam recommendations?
Soil particles in soil determine soil load-bearing capacity. Soil groups are classified by soil particles size as clay, silt, sand, and gravel. They're particle size ranges from 0.0002"-3", thank you that is all. Bye.
@@R7Romeo Too funny and a typical soils engineering response. I mean no disrespect ma man. The bearing capacity of the soil can be compromised by moisture which negatively affects the soil bearing or lateral capacities of the soil (I am not a soils engineer and only sound like one).
To eliminate all confusion as to which residential slab system is recommended, one should always refer to the soils engineering report and then throw that away and use a post tension system. It will help you in court when the lawsuits start to fly.
Tony Reyes Yea, and I know production builders who do exactly that. Litigation can be a scary thing,lol.
@@tonyreyes1798 You hit the nail on the head. Especially with expansive soils creating voids or uplift depending on moisture.
Drainage solutions aside...is postension cheaper or more effective than helical piles or even micropile? I'm thinking correctly: Slabs crack because of unsupported loads. If the beams are spaced correctly and the pile is installed to max bearing capacity, then the load is transferred to the soil as long as you got the proper torque at install.
@@billthayer5239 For residential slabs the only time I see helical piles are for structural failure corrections or for Type 1 construction / high rises in production. For residential slabs (Type V construction) post tension systems are within ~$2k of a conventional slab (monolithic pour or two pour, #3 or 4 rebar with welded wire mesh (6x6 or 10x10). Slabs will crack due to a variety of factors. Shrinkage, deflections due to soil's expansive index, earthquake fault lines, poor soils or foundation engineering (cut / fill pads etc), slope movement .... you name it and just when I think I have seen it all ...... I highly recommend a post tension system regardless of the soils expansive index.
Excellent. Very helpful. Thanks. God bless.
I Have a pole barn about 25 by 40 ft on 1 foot of clay on SE corner and 3 ft tall on the NW with around 5 inches of rocks on top would you recommend removing the rock or pouring a 4 in slab on top with appropriate reinforcement?
GREAT AGAIN!.. THANKYOU
Great content thank you
Good demonstration
I like the 10 inch slab I just watched before this one. Many good points. Like the idea if a builder over engineering with his gut and experience better than a desk engineering plan. What should we do then double it. That's good engineering and not run by penny pinchi ng accounts or cheap customers. I wNt to buy a lot in a small town in Texas just to have you build a Barndo for me. Ur great!!
Excellent points, hopefully you enlightened some viewers, I'm old school an like rebar double layered on rebar chairs but that mite be real old school.
Two rebar mats in a 4 inch slab? I guess this is why we have engineers.
@@m.5051 With monolithic footers I mite add, an that was in 6" slabs, like I said real old school
Good info thanks
I haven’t seen support beams used in New England - just frost walls & reinforced slab. Would you need them here?
What are they made out of? Thanks!
ALL things equal 6" is ALWAYS stronger.
Yes
And more expensive (if not running into truck minimum delivery)
Many thanks, I been tryin to find out about "how to build a post and beam shed foundation" for a while now, and I think this has helped. Have you ever come across - Damkietor Nonpareil Dominion - (search on google ) ? It is an awesome exclusive product for building better sheds and woodworking without the normal expense. Ive heard some amazing things about it and my buddy got amazing results with it.
what happened to 5 inch slab
Wonderful tutorial!
I’m trying to make a 20x30 concrete slab with 4in concrete. It’s on flat ground grass. I wanted to use #4 rebar is that good? I’m putting a metal garage on top
Can you go into more detail about where to get soil tested and engineered--great information THX
Good point.....thickness doest matter it is how you do it right.
I need a 6 inch slab with rebar because I will be building a pad for a mobile home and instead of pouring individual piers for each Jack stand, I would prefer to just have a single surface so strong that the jack stands can be placed wherever and it’s always solidly supported.
Do you have a video explaining the support beam construction? Verses a plain flat rebared footer 4" slab?
The question i have is..when u say support boards under your test piece..did u place a 2x4 on edge across..
And how would you do this sipport in when you pour your concrete
thank you!
A 6" slab is stronger than a 4" slab if made to same specifications . If you have very heavy trucks and machines on it regularly you are going to want 6" slab steel reinforced and 40 mpa or 32 at worst. Adding fibre reinforcement to concrete can be very beneficial also.
That's what he just said.
I'm a Yankee looking at this and I will say, dig it deep and it will stay, for a looooong time. But build what need but 6" slab is pennies compared to a new England foundation. Make sure its built well, best video ever. If it's built well it works.
Thank you 😎
That's all good advice.
thank you enjoyed good info
If you as radiant heat tubing into a slab, should your as thickness to accommodate for weakness introduced by the tubing area occupied?
Very informative! Thanks for the video. I'm subscribing.
I'm a residential designer and make videos as well. I'm just working on one about concrete slabs on grade. I'll be sure to mention yours.
Yeah the slab I'm wanting to do is over engineered because I hold design and functionality over simple "get it done cheaply". I'm looking to do a garage to support my work and last for a life time or 4. I like strength and durability.
So I'm wanting to do extra aggregate. I'm thinking bigger is slightly better but needs to be added right. I'm also thinks a layer of larger then some more cement mix then smaller aggregate for a finer finish. Of course wire mesh first with structure poles. I'm just thinking What's the best plan for a car garage with a mechanic pit and car lift.
Mix is an important factor too, when it comes to cured strength, as is the slump. Rarely will you see a residential contractor check slump and most are pretty often going to use to wet a mix because it is easer to work, but if it's too wet, you will lose cured strength. In commercial jobs an onsite engineer or inspector will make sure they don't let it go down too wet. In residential work, most customers don't know the difference or that it matters.
Having a big slab and/or foundations engineered is not a bad idea because things like the mix, slump and reinforcement are part of the spec. That obligates the supplier and the contractor to meet the spec when supplying the concrete and installing it.
I'm just an amateur, but form my understanding about concrete, my concern would be rebar placement. While I fully realize that rebar does not need to be exactly in the center and in some case may be even better off center, I still think that 6 inches thickness should give the installer more flexibility and margin of error in keeping the rebar well within the concrete and at the same time being able to be off center if so wanted.
Doing 6” instead of 4” when not needed adds about $0.80 per sq ft. That is a lot of wasted money simply for “margin of error”. Rebar is still placed properly on a 4” slab.
You can use Helix micro rebar and not worry about using regular rebar. Helix replaced regular rebar.
Thank you
It depends on what will be stored and parked on the slab. If it's just a live in Barndominium then 4" would be fine. But if you're building a big garage with living quarters, then that's different. I'm planning a 40×60×16 ridged Ibeam building that will have trucks and a car lift. So I'm going to need 10"×16" footers with a engineered 6" slab which will be a monolithic pour. I'm in Florida so my building and slab will be beefy.
Is 4 inch good enough in a shop with car lifts. Would be using fiberglass reinforced concrete and matting ?
Yes for the inside but I would highly recommend to have a good foundation footing for the lifts system....
I'm going out a car lift in my metal garage storing two cars on the lift one on floor one on lift what do you suggest ?5inch with fiber
A 6" concrete slab gives you a larger thermal mass to help keep the interior temps more stable throughout the day. Combine a thick floor slab with other passive heating elements like vented Trombe walls...
Yeah I have friends who are builders and for there houses they always have a lot more inches for there personal home then they build for their customers...lol
As with so many things in life, "it depends" is the most correct answer 😂
I'm really confused as to how this is supposed to help tighten up my shot groups. But I'll give it a try I suppose.
Perfect
My friend.
How far apart should u put the support beams on a 4" slab. Say for example.
25 width x 45 lenth.
Depends on the purpose. Put them about 12.5 feet apart one way and 15 feet apart the other way.
Every 2 inches
Thank You Bro!!!!!!!!!!!
So i need to pour a 12 inch slab under my 4 inch slab ?
It all Depends on the PSI strength of the concrete, how you lay the rebar and the prep for the ground and footers.
A humble tip is to add concrete testing to your construction procedures. Take a wet sample of each slab and have it tested by a lab for break strengths. This keeps your concrete supplier "honest" and if there are any construction defect lawsuits, you have the concrete break testing data. You will also know if you are getting your compressive strengths you have paid for ..... Slump tests in the field only tell you so much and really does not memorialize the field testing data.
Yes, I have been discussing this lately and we may start doing it. Just need to come up with a good system to do it all.
@@TexasBarndominiums I suggest using 4" PVC pipe with a screw on or rubber cap. Gather enough material by asking the testing lab how much concrete they need and how many samples. Use a sharpie to mark your wet sample with date and location (lot number / project name). Make this a responsibility of the Project Superintendent or the Assistant Superintendent for each project.
@@TexasBarndominiums Another humble tip: Termite treatment of the soil BEFORE the slab is poured. If pre-treatment of the soil for termites is something you are not doing or is required, I'd suggest for this step to be done the night BEFORE you pour concrete. I also had our termite company place a "dye" in the termite treatment so we could easily identify the coverage of the termite poisons, otherwise; it is hard to see if the termite contractors are hitting all of the footings with termiticide.
core samples may keep your supplier honest IF they know about it but ITS t00 late..the mess is already there and now you HOPE TO GET IT FIXED....but being proactive UPFRONT IS the secret! slump tests at 4 0r 4,5 means you gain strength AT THE DAY OF THE POUR.,,,not just looking for someone to blame...an engineer on our big 1000 yd.pour once told methe gain of pouring dry AND VIBRATING IT,GAINED YOU THE STRENGTH AS if you had added a sack per yard!!!! It is a money saving thing.THIS GUY NEVER MENTIONSslump and 5000psi or 4000!How id he miss this?
@@tonyreyes1798 concrete break test use a specific size plastic cup and procedure the concrete is jabbed with a smooth dowel 26 times. But as far as keeping your concrete supplier “honest” in my experience concrete breaks always come well over the advertised 28-day strength. You have very little to worry about concrete not meeting it’s compressive strength.
Great video thank you!!
What if I need to elevate the slab about 14"? Do I make crazy deep form and pour a 14" slab? Do I find a bunch of dirt and rocks - say, 10" worth and pour a 4" slab? Does it matter what kind of dirt I find? This is for a patio - by the way.