I don’t understand why people don’t respect Dawes for returning to gymnastics and killing it at 24. Experience like that is always better for the team. Amy Chow is hugely underrated as well.
not taking Vanessa Atler to Sydney was the biggest mistake USA gymnastics has ever made. Well, selection committee-wise. We won't speak of some of the other mistakes.
So impressed by Atler and Chow. Atler because she was just so naturally talented on three of the four events. And Chow for basically doing a clean, standing full pike on the beam!
This entire broadcast (both nights), in light of what we know now, makes me sick. But, even though NBC didn't yet know the of the abuse, what I find so offensive, is that the narrative was almost exclusively about the "poor coaches". The adults were the story, not the amazing hard working athletes.Bela got Muceanu to the games, no mention of Dom's work, the Ribekis ticket to Sydney, as if Jamie is a show horse, and a second best one at that. Mary Lee is doing something right in Cincinnati. Very little about the athletes, and giving these damned people a job. No other sport talks about the coaches more than the athletes. It takes both of course, and coaches deserve a lot of credit, but the balance here is way off.
This is so true! I got so sick of them saying "remember, bela's watching" or "they have to impress him" like can you please give the athlete more credit for their hard work? Same with the coaches like you said. After knowing what these girl's went through, it makes me even angrier. The coaches help to train them, but like you said, it takes both not one.
Agree love it but it does feel tainted, which I am loving college gymnastics more and more especially UCLA when Miss Val coached, she coached them on and off the floor. Plus the balance was equal
Valerie's "tough love": telling atler to stop crying about her toe "stop that right now" her: "I can't" him: 'you can". Just what has been going on lately, coaches being too hard on gymnasts, telling them to preform when they are in too much pain. I hate it how nbc supports it in their statements!!!! No coincidence Valery/Valeri stepped down! Why did he insist Bross do that beam dismount over and over? I don't understand, she rarely if never stuck it.
Its discipline. Youre neglecting to acknowledge that after she taped her toe before her vault, and performed the 1st vault, literally the first thing he asked her was "are you alright?" They want these girls to be mentally tough. Behind closed doors is when you cry and vent.
@@JennaLeigh I know this comment is old, but a lot of these girl's are very young. I know they have to toughen them up, but it doesn't hurt to be a little more considerate. Coaches pushing gymnasts too far has caused many girls to have permanent injuries or to retire early
If anyone is wondering, this comment is referring to what happened at 28:17. I was going to make a similar comment. I think it's a bit of too much tough love.
But did you see how he basically told Atler to "stop it", when she was crying about her toe? Is he being an old guard coach here? I mean making girls be tough and work through pain. Why can't he say, you'll be fine? I don't understand it all. I was a gymnast but never elite.
Gift Horse I’m a coach and was appalled by his behavior. There is a difference between injury and fighting through pain. I would’ve at least checked to make sure she didn’t injure herself before I tell her to suck it up. But it’s Valeri so I’m not surprised...I’ve heard stories about his abusive coaching style.
In the opening montage Vanessa Atler was only shown for a split second while everyone else got more footage... it's as if they'd already decided she was no longer in the running before the competition even started. It's really sad because I think despite everything she really deserved to be on that 2000 team and could have made a great contribution.
And to think that quad's "It Girl" didn't make the team . I wonder if Vanessa would've made it if they had the 3-up-3-count format that year. They could've used her vaults.
+Melissa Gold Definitely- I think teams were still struggling with how to utilize team members as specialists. At the time, it would have seemed absurd for Vanessa to go to the Olympics and NOT do the all-around, when in retrospect it makes perfect sense
I think they definitely shoulder have picked her for the team. They only used Amy Chow for two events during the team final in Atlanta, so they could have excused Atler on bars. She was rock solid on every other event.
@@almajurisic16 She was hardly rock solid at the Olympic Trials on any event. That said yes the 2000 team was so weak I would have put her on for her potential, but not put her anywhere near bars. Beckerman I also would have taken a risk on and put on the team for bars and beam. That said I heard a story Atler said she refused to be put on the team if she was not made a leader and allowed to do all 4 events. And since she belonged nowhere near bars even in prelims at that point, if she really gave that ultimatum then yes leaving her off was right.
Apparently the Rybecki’s wanted to be there when Vanessa got married and wanted to hold her first baby??!! After Vanessa had retired, she said that the Rybecki’s were extremely abusive. Jamie Dantcher confirmed this. Why did they think that they had a right to go anywhere near Vanessa’s wedding or children??!!
I have watched this and 2000 Trials many times and I don't think I've ever really noticed how gorgeous Vanessa's dance was. Very expressive, down to the fingertips. Really a pleasure to watch, aside from her also-excellent tumbling.
I hate how they hyped up Elise Ray, especially on bars and up to Sydney. She didn't qualify for finals in the Olympics or perform at all well in Sydney overall.
She was deserving of the hype. At her best, she easily could have been in Top 5 AA and top 4 UB. The camp system destroyed and overtrained these girls.
That's so unfair to say with the disaster on the vault. Shes only human , that would have screwed with anyone. How was she to come back after that ?! I dont know I thought she brought it most days
@@b0rtie agreed they seemed to be a good team. And look what happened - that's what I think caused her to Divorce her parents or the straw that broke the Camels back so to speak.
It really should have been Atler and Beckerman instead of Dawes and Schwikert on the Olympic team. I get they imploded at trials, but they did so because of pressure to hit their weaker events. Tasha did perform out of her mind at Olys, but based on what she was showing up until trials, it was a strange choice. You could have just had 4 all arounders and then just put Atler up on VT and FX and then Beckerman on UB and BB. For the 2 tenths difference that Dawes brought over Maloney on Bars, you could have gained about 3-4 tenths on VT alone w Atler, and 1-2 tenths each on BB and FX. They ended up slipping into the bronze because of the Dong Fangxiao controversy, but they would have had a chance to get the medal outright.
I was not a fan of this era of gymnastics. I think I stopped watching it for a bit that quad. I loved Atler, that’s about it; didn’t like the gymnastics of White and Maloney at all. I think it was the code because I dont remember liking any of the Romanians either. Hard for me to even remember who was in Sydney, except for Khorkina be of the vault debacle. That whole thing....they really should’ve started that competition over completely. So unfair.
....Beth and Steve I think were OBSESSED with Vanessa, it's very creepy to hear Tim say Beth wanted to be there to see Vanessa marry and hold her first child.
That is CREEPY. They were her Coaches, not her Parents. So to say "I wanted to be there to see her get Married and hold her First Child." Had Vanessa chosen to stay, it would have been Her decision(s) to have made.
I mean....these girls see these people more than many friends and family members. The hours spent training together.....you BECOME family. I coached cheer for 1 year and the bond i formed with those ladies in just one year is for life. You share blood, sweat and tears. Every day together. Its not creepy, its bond.
@@jorgebonilla2234 Miller hit her beam at the Trials and only got a 9.287. She wasn't Olympic Gold medal calibre on beam anymore, this was not 1996. At best she was similar to Dawes. Great bars on a team that didn't need bars, good but not great beam without top difficulty, and useless on floor or vault. If she replaced Dawes it is the same team at most.
@@grantdesjardins764 part of that issue is Nunno's inability to understand how the COPs is written, which should be nothing new. Her "Miller" was considered a variation of an oak tree. I would have liked to have thought that by Sydney, they would have fixed that.
The Biles is a double layout with a half twist at the end. Vanessa Atler did a 2 1/2 twist into a punch layout. They are two completely different passes.
At 8:15 Atler does a double layout into a punch front. Different from the Biles, which is a double layout with half twist at the end (blind landing), which she usually connects into a leap of some sort. Notice how Atler lands her double layout with the floor in view? This allows her to time her landing into a super quick (and well executed) punch front flip. Biles, on the other hand, lands her double layout half without the floor in view, which makes timing her landing a bit more difficult than the standard double layout. Often adding a half twist to an element can be just as difficult or more difficult that adding a full twist because of the blind landing.
ruclips.net/video/-MIeGU_DfCU/видео.html MTL: "Good work on the healy Jaeger" Alyssa: "holy moly" MTL: "Very good. I about jumped out of my pants on that Jaeger."
deenibeeniable really ? Just type in gymnastics spotting saves and you’ll see a bunch. I’ve personally caught a gymnast in midair before she came crashing down on her head.
Wow. Really? Are you referring to elite competitions such as this or in general? Because spotters (coaches) teach these girls everything. Lol. Pretty strange statement
I'll never forget Valeri Liukin basically standing there and watching Nastia fall on her face after she lost her grip on the high bar. He didn't even ATTEMPT to catch her
@@jojox9791 I mean, it makes sense with the smaller team and 3 up 3 count to not necessarily take the top 4 or 5 AAers. In 2016 if they took top 5 AA from trials it would have been Simone, Laurie, Aly, Mykayla, and Ragan. That would've been such a weak team on UB just like 2000 was a weak team on vault.
Just in awe of Vanessa Atler’s gymnastics. Even with her bars problems, she was spectacular.
Vanessa's floor routine.. Good lord, that girl was fabulous. Truly fabulous.
The perfect combination of power and elegance.
So fantastic
I hate to say this, but the combination of artistry and acrobatics was much better in 2000. Vanessa did an exquisite floor routine.
I don’t understand why people don’t respect Dawes for returning to gymnastics and killing it at 24. Experience like that is always better for the team. Amy Chow is hugely underrated as well.
not taking Vanessa Atler to Sydney was the biggest mistake USA gymnastics has ever made. Well, selection committee-wise. We won't speak of some of the other mistakes.
kejonza Sydney was a shitshow in itself with vault alone. Kind of a relief that Vanessa didn’t go
It is too bad, but she didn't earn it.
👏👏👏
I think the selection process was a good idea since they're looking at an entire body of work and not just a lucky or unlucky meet.
So impressed by Atler and Chow. Atler because she was just so naturally talented on three of the four events. And Chow for basically doing a clean, standing full pike on the beam!
I wonder if she's the only one who competed it.
Gift Horse I’ve seen a couple gymnasts do a pike full... I think most recently Ragan Smith.
This entire broadcast (both nights), in light of what we know now, makes me sick. But, even though NBC didn't yet know the of the abuse, what I find so offensive, is that the narrative was almost exclusively about the "poor coaches". The adults were the story, not the amazing hard working athletes.Bela got Muceanu to the games, no mention of Dom's work, the Ribekis ticket to Sydney, as if Jamie is a show horse, and a second best one at that. Mary Lee is doing something right in Cincinnati. Very little about the athletes, and giving these damned people a job. No other sport talks about the coaches more than the athletes. It takes both of course, and coaches deserve a lot of credit, but the balance here is way off.
Agreed Kelli Hill was and still continues to be a great coach. The Strauses to me too seemed amazing.
Exactly what I was thinking!!
This is so true! I got so sick of them saying "remember, bela's watching" or "they have to impress him" like can you please give the athlete more credit for their hard work? Same with the coaches like you said. After knowing what these girl's went through, it makes me even angrier. The coaches help to train them, but like you said, it takes both not one.
Agree love it but it does feel tainted, which I am loving college gymnastics more and more especially UCLA when Miss Val coached, she coached them on and off the floor. Plus the balance was equal
Almost all the coaches were abusive dicks!
It's amazing how much pirouhetting on bars has evolved.
Lmao. Valeri said, "no, stop that" 😂😂😂😂
I about fell out. We aint got time for tears.
I don't think Kelli Hill liked hugging Bella and listening to what he told her.
Her and Elise's faces as they turned away were priceless.
do you have a timestamp?
I wish the Olympic team ended up being Maloney, Ray, moceanu, Atler, Dantzcher and White
Moceanu would have added nothing to the team this year. She was weak on every event, even her beam was so so at best and inconsistent.
Valerie's "tough love": telling atler to stop crying about her toe "stop that right now" her: "I can't" him: 'you can". Just what has been going on lately, coaches being too hard on gymnasts, telling them to preform when they are in too much pain. I hate it how nbc supports it in their statements!!!! No coincidence Valery/Valeri stepped down! Why did he insist Bross do that beam dismount over and over? I don't understand, she rarely if never stuck it.
Its discipline. Youre neglecting to acknowledge that after she taped her toe before her vault, and performed the 1st vault, literally the first thing he asked her was "are you alright?" They want these girls to be mentally tough. Behind closed doors is when you cry and vent.
@@JennaLeigh I know this comment is old, but a lot of these girl's are very young. I know they have to toughen them up, but it doesn't hurt to be a little more considerate. Coaches pushing gymnasts too far has caused many girls to have permanent injuries or to retire early
If anyone is wondering, this comment is referring to what happened at 28:17. I was going to make a similar comment. I think it's a bit of too much tough love.
Love Kelli Hill's eye roll after Bela was talking to her
I love watching Valeri here and also in 2005 Quad with Nastia!!!!
But did you see how he basically told Atler to "stop it", when she was crying about her toe? Is he being an old guard coach here? I mean making girls be tough and work through pain. Why can't he say, you'll be fine? I don't understand it all. I was a gymnast but never elite.
Gift Horse I’m a coach and was appalled by his behavior. There is a difference between injury and fighting through pain. I would’ve at least checked to make sure she didn’t injure herself before I tell her to suck it up. But it’s Valeri so I’m not surprised...I’ve heard stories about his abusive coaching style.
I missed him tell her that.
An ode to hair glitter.
And velour Leo's, lol
@Star Tetrahedron and tinsel. 😂😂
I am here twenty years later! Also, Australia has a deep problem right now two decades after the Olympics!!!
In the opening montage Vanessa Atler was only shown for a split second while everyone else got more footage... it's as if they'd already decided she was no longer in the running before the competition even started. It's really sad because I think despite everything she really deserved to be on that 2000 team and could have made a great contribution.
she didn't though with her poor showing at Olympic Trials. she didn't hit one routine -- 0/8!!!!
Watching Maloney always felt like such a letdown. She threw such big skills but was consistently SO sloppy with her form and execution.
No way
2000’s version of skinner 👀
Her problem was always being injured...
And to think that quad's "It Girl" didn't make the team . I wonder if Vanessa would've made it if they had the 3-up-3-count format that year. They could've used her vaults.
Melissa Gold Indeed. Vanessa would have really thrived in the next few quads when the focus shifted to specialists. A shame how it all panned out.
+Melissa Gold Definitely- I think teams were still struggling with how to utilize team members as specialists. At the time, it would have seemed absurd for Vanessa to go to the Olympics and NOT do the all-around, when in retrospect it makes perfect sense
I think they definitely shoulder have picked her for the team. They only used Amy Chow for two events during the team final in Atlanta, so they could have excused Atler on bars. She was rock solid on every other event.
Oh yeah, if they had specialist spots like, she would have been phenomenal. Those bars (and bad coaching) ruined her life.
@@almajurisic16 She was hardly rock solid at the Olympic Trials on any event. That said yes the 2000 team was so weak I would have put her on for her potential, but not put her anywhere near bars. Beckerman I also would have taken a risk on and put on the team for bars and beam.
That said I heard a story Atler said she refused to be put on the team if she was not made a leader and allowed to do all 4 events. And since she belonged nowhere near bars even in prelims at that point, if she really gave that ultimatum then yes leaving her off was right.
Holy Maloney.. that bar routine was crazy looking.
Kelli’s face at 41:52 LOL
Kristen Maloney's gymnastics can be so sloppy at times
Apparently the Rybecki’s wanted to be there when Vanessa got married and wanted to hold her first baby??!! After Vanessa had retired, she said that the Rybecki’s were extremely abusive. Jamie Dantcher confirmed this. Why did they think that they had a right to go anywhere near Vanessa’s wedding or children??!!
Because they were ridiculously overattached to their gymnasts.
So much bashing of Maloney, at least she didn't choke under pressure.
And yes he was watching and touching everything.
I have watched this and 2000 Trials many times and I don't think I've ever really noticed how gorgeous Vanessa's dance was. Very expressive, down to the fingertips. Really a pleasure to watch, aside from her also-excellent tumbling.
I hate how they hyped up Elise Ray, especially on bars and up to Sydney. She didn't qualify for finals in the Olympics or perform at all well in Sydney overall.
She was deserving of the hype. At her best, she easily could have been in Top 5 AA and top 4 UB. The camp system destroyed and overtrained these girls.
Jorge Bonilla it’s just sad
Starting AA finals on vault with the table at the wrong height really screwed her and Khorkina.
That's so unfair to say with the disaster on the vault. Shes only human , that would have screwed with anyone. How was she to come back after that ?!
I dont know I thought she brought it most days
Always going hard on that intro fluff haha
I think if Dominique M had started with MLT sooner, she would have had a more successful comeback.
I agree!!
Agreed entirely.
Sarah McClure I only wish the coach who helped her win the Goodwill games AA hadn’t been fired by Moceanu’s dad. :(
@@b0rtie agreed they seemed to be a good team. And look what happened - that's what I think caused her to Divorce her parents or the straw that broke the Camels back so to speak.
Kristin Anzelc Yes, agree with you completely. If only Dominique could’ve had a healthier life balance, sigh.
Nastia Liukin dad was Vanessa Atlers coach. Nastia was 10 back then and I’m sure training in that gym with Vanessa.
Was Atler underscored on floor both days? I hate this code of points
It really should have been Atler and Beckerman instead of Dawes and Schwikert on the Olympic team. I get they imploded at trials, but they did so because of pressure to hit their weaker events.
Tasha did perform out of her mind at Olys, but based on what she was showing up until trials, it was a strange choice.
You could have just had 4 all arounders and then just put Atler up on VT and FX and then Beckerman on UB and BB. For the 2 tenths difference that Dawes brought over Maloney on Bars, you could have gained about 3-4 tenths on VT alone w Atler, and 1-2 tenths each on BB and FX. They ended up slipping into the bronze because of the Dong Fangxiao controversy, but they would have had a chance to get the medal outright.
Or if Shannon hadn’t gotten hurt at trials, you could put her up, if her BB difficulty was back up to being out of a 10.
I was not a fan of this era of gymnastics. I think I stopped watching it for a bit that quad. I loved Atler, that’s about it; didn’t like the gymnastics of White and Maloney at all. I think it was the code because I dont remember liking any of the Romanians either. Hard for me to even remember who was in Sydney, except for Khorkina be of the vault debacle. That whole thing....they really should’ve started that competition over completely. So unfair.
....Beth and Steve I think were OBSESSED with Vanessa, it's very creepy to hear Tim say Beth wanted to be there to see Vanessa marry and hold her first child.
That is CREEPY. They were her Coaches, not her Parents. So to say "I wanted to be there to see her get Married and hold her First Child." Had Vanessa chosen to stay, it would have been Her decision(s) to have made.
I mean....these girls see these people more than many friends and family members. The hours spent training together.....you BECOME family. I coached cheer for 1 year and the bond i formed with those ladies in just one year is for life. You share blood, sweat and tears. Every day together. Its not creepy, its bond.
Jenna Leigh's Beauty Slam I just think they always wanted to be there for her
LMAO at first comment 🤣
Poor Vanessa Atler...if she didn't have bars problem she could've been the U.S. champion for 2 or even 3 times.
Dominique should have asked bella to coach her along with kim. They needed him to excel.
Vanessa :(
Was never much of a fan of Kristen, she never looked liked she was happy out there and her form on certain moves can be atrocious.
If only Atler hadn’t choked in 2000. I definitely would’ve preferred her over Dawes. I think the team needed Atler’s vaults more than Dawes’ bars.
They also needed Miller's beam more than Dawes' bars, which Shannon could match or outdo easily.
@@jorgebonilla2234 Miller hit her beam at the Trials and only got a 9.287. She wasn't Olympic Gold medal calibre on beam anymore, this was not 1996. At best she was similar to Dawes. Great bars on a team that didn't need bars, good but not great beam without top difficulty, and useless on floor or vault. If she replaced Dawes it is the same team at most.
@@grantdesjardins764 part of that issue is Nunno's inability to understand how the COPs is written, which should be nothing new. Her "Miller" was considered a variation of an oak tree. I would have liked to have thought that by Sydney, they would have fixed that.
Dominique Dawes, bars. ❤
Atler was a great beam worker.
So much drama during this time in usa gymnastics,im so glad they don't focus and put so much pressure on just 1 or 2 gymnast.
Damn, Elise Ray, bars. ❤
Vanessa alter Is beautiful like a rose blooming on floor
What's the difference between what Vanessa Atler does at 18:45 and "The Biles"?
The Biles is a double layout with a half twist at the end. Vanessa Atler did a 2 1/2 twist into a punch layout. They are two completely different passes.
At 8:15 Atler does a double layout into a punch front. Different from the Biles, which is a double layout with half twist at the end (blind landing), which she usually connects into a leap of some sort. Notice how Atler lands her double layout with the floor in view? This allows her to time her landing into a super quick (and well executed) punch front flip. Biles, on the other hand, lands her double layout half without the floor in view, which makes timing her landing a bit more difficult than the standard double layout. Often adding a half twist to an element can be just as difficult or more difficult that adding a full twist because of the blind landing.
I know 8:15 is not the part you asked about. I misread, but still worth pointing out and/or understanding. Can't wait until 2020!
What was Marta's official position here?
Valeri telling her to stop crying and she said in her little voice ‘I can’t help it’
The glitter in the hair trend is something that should have never become a thing.
Im a glitter fanatic! I loved it. Anything that sparkles under bright lights.
@@JennaLeigh I agree I love anything that Sparkles
Elise rays fulls on floor are just not...exciting.
This was a time when some of them were artistc and acrobatic. Atler on the beam, Maloney on floor. leaps are pretty lame, tho
How did the judges not give Maloney a .5 deduction on bars when her coach clearly touched her during the routine? Huh 🤔
Vanessa Atler was the most promising gymnast to never reach her true potential😥
All these understated music choices. You want the audience on your side. FX music for Ray, Dantzcher, White is so boring.
I have never been a Ray fan. It’s something about her gymnastics style that just irks me
ruclips.net/video/-MIeGU_DfCU/видео.html
MTL: "Good work on the healy Jaeger"
Alyssa: "holy moly"
MTL: "Very good. I about jumped out of my pants on that Jaeger."
I've been watching gymnastics for 40 years & I have never seen a spotter do anything of any value. At all. Ever.
deenibeeniable really ? Just type in gymnastics spotting saves and you’ll see a bunch. I’ve personally caught a gymnast in midair before she came crashing down on her head.
Wow. Really? Are you referring to elite competitions such as this or in general? Because spotters (coaches) teach these girls everything. Lol. Pretty strange statement
I'll never forget Valeri Liukin basically standing there and watching Nastia fall on her face after she lost her grip on the high bar. He didn't even ATTEMPT to catch her
Can't stand the Karolyis!!!🤬🤬🤬🤬
Obviously the selection process works. When the top 6-7 went, how many team gold medals did USA win? Oh, that's right, none!
Courtney Kolenda Actually, they won in 1996
1996: Gold Medal; 1992: Bronze.
Right! And now for 2020 they have no strategy, just take the top... Lete hope they call in someone who can compare and crunch numbers
@@jojox9791 I mean, it makes sense with the smaller team and 3 up 3 count to not necessarily take the top 4 or 5 AAers. In 2016 if they took top 5 AA from trials it would have been Simone, Laurie, Aly, Mykayla, and Ragan. That would've been such a weak team on UB just like 2000 was a weak team on vault.