It is a blessing to see a young woman so Biblically literate and clear thinking. The lack of Biblical soundness in professing Christians today is abysmal.
Watching this breaks my heart because there is a fairly large and growing church in my small corner of Atlantic Canada that is drawing in so many young people by modelling the teachings of Bethel. I feel at a loss as I’ve tried to reach out to those I love to warn them about being led astray. My warnings fall on deaf ears and more and more young people are being drawn in to this. They have zeal and fellowship but lack in biblical understanding. My soul is literally aching right now. God please deliver them
So today a woman at the gym was telling me about her cancer journey and how her higher power and crystals had healed her...I felt like mini Melissa telling her the higher power who heals is Jesus,and He warns against believing in and using crystals.Practicing being truthful even if it’s in comfy.But it actually felt great.Thanks for your example.
Susan Zumback have you read the “beautiful side of evil”? Good book that I read like 20 years ago from someone leaving new age healing thru demon named jesus. It opened my eyes and helped me recognize not Holy Spirit in certain things. I stick to the written Scriptures. Jesus and The Word are one (John 1). Blessings. ❤️
@@MendedAndWholeLife oh my goodness. That book is AMAZING. Read it 20 years ago. Thanks for mentioning it. I actually bought a copy for a friend who was "dabbling" (jumping) into control and manipulation thru the occult.
It's all about control. People want to control their own lives and not surrender to God. Sad. Surrender brings freedom to let God decide what's best for us.
Ten years ago, this book was recommended to me, and at the time I was very impressed and bought his further books, listened to all his podcasts, etc. But I started to feel that something was wrong with the emphasis on signs and wonders as an end in themselves, and the view of Jesus as a mere man who we should copy, so as to wow the unbelieving world. I lost my husband tragically and suddenly five years ago. I could never have processed my loss and kept my faith in Jesus if I had thought like a Bethelite. Instead I have a much deeper relationship with Christ, accepting that He decided in His sovereignty that my husband had run his race. I needed to avoid the charismatics who could not understand the peace I had in the face of tragedy. While Bill Johnson has said some inspiring things, I've thrown out all his books. Jesus is everything, He is Lord, He is the author of Scripture, He is Messiah, and His miracles on earth were UNIQUE to attest to the fact that He was the One promised from Genesis to Revelation. To downgrade Scripture compared with personal experience is insane. No wonder many fall away from the faith when experience lets them down!
Gaby Meyer wow, this is beautifully written! 1st I’m sorry for your loss. You are so right, if we are not grounded in the real Jesus we will a deeper state of confusion rather then acceptance of Gods sovereignty and peace that comes with laying ourselves aside for what only Jesus can give us. So much new age in the church, (like yoga) especially books being promoted! Stay away from Jesus Calling! That book was channeled! God bless you sister!
Gaby thank you for a very brave input here. I think there is high turnover in Bill Johnson's type of church, and this is sad. Many of the things they hold to do not work out there in real life. Much of real life isn't (a) sensational (b) controversial and (c) supernatural. Our faith has to be fit for "Monday morning" and has to have legs to go the whole way. The 2 analogies that Paul uses most often in the NT for the Christian walk are the military one (ie a fight for which we need to be equipped) and a race, athletic contest for which we need to be fit. Much of fitness is boring and repetitive, but in the end it yields fruit. You come through it. God bless
Gaby, thank you for sharing your this. Your God given strength, your insight and spiritual health are worth more than anything this world can ever offer. These are the real miracles, the real blessings in Christ.
The other day I was clearing up space on my laptop and an iMessage strand popped up where I was defending Bill Johnson and Bethel like a madman. Funny how at the time I was talking to the person I had committed heinous sexual sin with. I thought I was an authority on Bethel... But then my friend and I prayed for Jesus to make us more like Him, stripping away all things that were wrong. 1.) He tore away my sexual sin and rebuked me hardcore. 2.) He shattered my delirious beliefs I held about the NAR. 3.) I lost a relationship with an incredibly good friend because of my sin, but because the Lord was protecting them from me. 4.) Then the Lord transformed my mind and called me into ministry and set my heart on witnessing the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ to my beloved friends not only in the NAR but in the Mormon faith as well. 😭 We need to be critical of any and every belief, SO THAT we can truly love the Lord our God without any barriers.
He rebuked you, because He loves you.....i am glad you are doing well and realize that He rends so as to mend. He is a good Father, and if we sin repeatedly, or heinously, and are not reprimanded and disciplined, it is because we are NOT His children. I hope you are doing well and grounded not only in the fact that he loves you, but that he is sovereign, and we are not. It takes a lot of pressure off of us when we just decide to let Him have His way. God bless you.
I was in a Bethel centric church for several years. I was working on my PhD and was derided for that. The pastor made jabs from the pulpit that you didn't need higher education. I was constantly told I should STOP thinking and live by my spirit. I am so glad that God brought me out of that.
Susan L. McGee I had a similar experience as a leader for a college campus ministry. I was made to feel guilty for enjoying reading and studying Scripture through passive aggressive jabs, like “knowledge can be used for evil too, you know” and “just knowing of and reading Scripture doesn’t save people” (of course I know this is true). I was told that God is bigger than his word and that I was limiting myself by putting God in a box. I was called a Pharisee several times. I always had a feeling that my superiors in the campus ministry viewed me as a project to be fixed. A lot of guilt and shame followed. But Christ, in His lovingkindness, brought me out of this group to live in his Truth.
Yikes! That's scary. My sister's pastor thinks that way. That is so backward to me. Why wouldn't you want your people to be educated? I'm praying for churches that think this way.
@@jbm7335 This is where I struggle. I agree with this video. Most of what we see from these mega churches is false. I have been searching for God and places like Bethel have always made me uneasy for the reasons she describes. With that said, there are many scriptures that seem to clearly say it has to do with our faith, so saying that it's up to God doesn't sound right. Most of the times when Jesus healed someone, he said that it was because of their faith and not to prove himself as many simply. To me, scripture teaches healing. I haven't seen it in my on life though and desperately need it as I have a serious and incurable disease, so it leaves me confused.
@@milah24 I'm sorry to hear that, I know it must be terribly hard on your whole family and it's only natural in our human capacity to fear for the future which is nothing to be ashamed of. However our faith has to work together with God's will, we cannot tell God what his will is, his will is his own. Our human faith can never "overcome" the will of God (you can't force God to act when it's not his plan to act a certain way). As believers we have to trust that God works ALL THINGS (good and bad) for the ultimate good of all who love him. So if it is God's will to heal a person, they will be healed but if it is not they won't, but this is a good thing even if from our perspective it might not seem so. Job is a good book to read, because it demonstrates how Job went through adversity and still maintained faith in God, even while in the thick of it and not knowing how it would turn out. He was in the middle of multiple deaths of his family and personal losses and he understood through it all that whatever God's plan is, it's what's best. Remember that God loves you to the point he was willing to send his own Son to die so that you may have everlasting life, so please don't doubt God's goodness or assume you are being punished. Maybe this can clear some questions you may have: www.gotquestions.org/healing-Bible.html
@@milah24 the scriptures says the power that saves is the same power that heals Jms5:14-16;Mk2:5-9. Acts10:38 Jesus healed all that were oppressed of the devil, for God was with Him. Watch the Kingdom of Heaven/God by Howard Williams of Open Face Ministry. God bless
I love your gentle and loving approach to Bill Johnson. Though you disagree you don't demonize and bash him. That reveals the heart of God. Thank you for your example ❤️😊
Jonathan David - I don’t think there are many misconceptions about his beliefs. He makes it pretty clear. Just because he contradicts himself, doesn’t mean he doesn’t believe both things. I think her early statement sums it up. It’s all about “fake it ‘till ya make it”.
No one ever does videos on how to Continually show grace, be patient, etc. to an unbelieving husband. Not a good video at least that's keeps it real like you do. You are a great teacher to us and I need taught..its a good lesson anyways
i was so hopeful that my sister's cancer would be healed and so grieved and depressed when she died young. I know we cannot explain why some get healed and some do not. I am grateful for the faith for a miraculous healing.
10:53 your story about your husband’s jet ski had me in tears. This is exactly what it feels like to be in this movement. You try EVERYTHING and declare everything and cling on to those “promises” God gave you and every year it doesn’t happen you try to figure out what you’re doing wrong and what can be done differently. It’s why people leave the “faith.” And it’s all works-based 😭
The idea is that our experiences are not to dictate our doctrine. God’s Word alone is. Regardless of whether or not we perceive it as “working.” So, for example, Isaiah 53:4-5 says that by His stripes we are healed. We stand on that promise, ready to die standing on it, refusing to relinquish faith in it because of an experience.
Finally somebody who understands oh my gosh just like I'm reading you or you really like my life exactly how it feels you declare and decree put the man's on God I'm in the audacity of us thinking that we could tell God what to do but in the faith movement that's what they teach because they twist the scriptures for yourself like you have the power you have a purpose and I'm like what purpose is that I always was looking for my purpose in Christ and I could never find it and I thought that was something wrong with me because everybody else had a purpose it seemed
@The Amazing Grace Please tell me, when you mention Doreen Virtue, are you saying she is a New Ager? I didn't know about her until 2 days ago when i watched this video and thought she was exposing the false prophets and therefore above board as a believer.... ruclips.net/p/PLFuOx9y02OBfp2Pm3OwUtKwOU0Ew5BXC_
@@shulamite7940 by now you've probably already discovered for yourself, but Doreen Virtue is a former New Ager. Christ saved her our of the New Age and she is now a gracious but determined testifier of the truth as found in the Word of God. Praise the Lord!
Hi! I'm not sure how you figured I was 'tearing' him down. Did you watch this video? It's his theology that's the issue. I make that point very obvious.
With all due respect, did you even watch this video? Nowhere did I call him an 'ungodly monster'. And yes, they have their 'Passion Translation', which I go over in some detail in this video. It's a very simple observation. I'd ask that you please watch in full first before making such claims. I do this with the knowledge that I shouldn't be careless with my words or assumptions.
Pray for the baptism of the Holy Ghost and for the gift of speaking in Tongues. God gives us our desires. Please don't try away from what God would like for you to have.
Thank you for this video 🥲 I’m watching it 3 years later and it’s just heartbreaking. I hate to see this sort of watered down gospel infiltrating so many of my friend’s and family’s churches and studies. You handled this with so much grace and still didn’t forfeit truth. Thank you for your diligence. Confession: I’m not going to lie. I used to avoid your videos when RUclips would suggest them to me because I thought surely someone who didn’t believe the same theology as me would be lacking in grace and love. I didn’t even want to entertain the idea of pressing play on your videos. Im now going back and watching like all of your videos and im so grateful for your content.
Melissa - You are a GEM! I just stumbled across you via another one of your videos; I've seen two or three others by now, and I think you have the most amazing Clarity about your subject, as you proceed to elucidate your various points that illumine the splendid truth of what you have to offer to the conversation... THANK YOU for being there! And may God's blessings be all over your ministry!
Hi there. I listened to the whole presentation and read most of the comments, and some of your replies. You can tell by their comments, those that didn't listen to the whole presentation and or had a critical bias toward you. I believe your research and preparedness for this presentation was nothing short of the highest quality. You are at a level of apologetics that many wish they were at but are not willing to do the work necessary to achieve it. You were never personal and always directed to "Bill's Gospel or teachings." You keep going. Don't get discouraged. Let God use you and He will keep doing mighty works through you. I'm slowly catching up on your videos. Be Blessed.
“Our churches are filled with Christians who are idling in intellectual neutral. As Christians, their minds are going to waste. One result of this is an immature, superficial faith. People who simply ride the roller coaster of emotional experience are cheating themselves out of a deeper and richer Christian faith by neglecting the intellectual side of that faith. They know little of the riches of deep understanding of Christian truth, of the confidence inspired by the discovery that one's faith is logical and fits the facts of experience, of the stability brought to one's life by the conviction that one's faith is objectively true.” - William Lane Craig in Passionate Conviction
As a new believer, I was swept up in alot of these teachings. One day I felt to take a step back and examine my fruit. I was striving so hard to live up to what they taught, my husband was suffering with a brain tumor and I believed with all my heart that he would be healed if I did what these people taught. When I realized I was frustrated, sad, my faith was diminishing instead of growing, and my husband was not healed I knew something was amiss. I appreciate teachings like yours that helped me to dig deeper and to find spiritual healing. It was surrender to the Lordship of Jesus and choosing day by day to trust Him no matter what that changed my life❤️ God bless you for speaking truth!
This is right on track, being from Redding and knowing people who have gone to Bethel you can really see these attitudes and actions in them. Thank you for digging into these topics!
I’m thankful for this video! It has confirmed so much of what I have been trying to figure out on my own for about six months. I have some close friends whom I am part of a prayer group with. They love the Lord and have beautiful hearts for Gods people. They would often talk about Bill and Heidi Baker and how their teachings had grown their faith. I knew very little about them so thought to give them a listen. I tried to listen to them on a few occasions but minutes into their sermons got a check in my spirit and turned them off. I went on my merry way until one day I came across a “drunk in the spirit video” that rocked my world. I was so disturbed by it that I shared it with my one of my friends and asked her thoughts. She came back of course defending their behavior and even admitted to having these experiences herself. I couldn’t shake this and something felt so off with everything. I was becoming so withdrawn and confused because I honestly didn’t know what was truth. It was like a bad dream. I had people I trusted, who were older than me and in my opinion, more spiritually mature telling me I was wrong and my concerns were essentially the devil trying to make me doubt Gods works. But I wasn’t content with that. I felt something very different in my spirit. It became this daily journey of prayer and tears and lots of studying the Word. I realized I didn’t know the Bible as much as I thought and how did I know everything I had been taught throughout my life was truly interpreted correctly. God took me on a journey of shaking out all the bad theology I had set up in my mind through a desire to read and devour the scripture like my life depended on it. After many months, the pieces of the puzzle are starting to fit together and I’m seeing that everything I was feeling in my spirit was God warning me and bringing me away from deception. I have tried earnestly to talk with my friends about Bill and his theology and they still think I’m the one who’s deceived. They even know scripture, which I just don’t understand. I’m not sure what God wants to do through all of this, but I’m so grateful for His faithfulness through this whole thing. It’s been very hard to be one of the few who’s eyes have been mercifully opened. Bill and others within this movement have influence that is so far-reaching, I literally can’t escape it. I’m so baffled by how many people buy into this, then on the other hand it’s no wonder bc we just don’t know the Word of God. Read your Bible friends! It’s the only thing that will keep you in truth.
Don't worry about the length of your videos. I watch them a little bit at a time while I'm cleaning or something, and get through them over a couple of days. Thank you for all the work you put into making them, the message you're sharing is very important. ☺️
At 1 hour and 6 minutes there is the discussion about "My sheep know my voice." My personal testimony is when I came to this portion of Scripture I kept asking God, "What does the voice of the shepherd sound like?" For many years God was silent, until after being invited to a Pentecostal cult by a co-worker, and then realizing it was wrong. I knew I was going to have to meet up with him and it wasn't going to be pretty. So I asked God if He couldn't please give me something to take with me when I went to work the following morning. When I opened my Bible I was in John 10 again, so I asked God again, "What does the voice of the shepherd sound like?" I expected nothing, because for years He'd been silent. This time He said, "Turn to John 1:1." Although I already knew what it said I quickly turned to that verse and read it. Then I lifted my Bible in the air and said, "This is the voice of the shepherd?" I didn't hear anything, but I felt His smile of affirmation. So when this man says Jesus didn't say My sheep hear my book," he's wrong, because His Book, the Bible, is His voice, the voice of the shepherd. (sorry for the running commentary)
I remember a few years ago sitting on my bed really sick with my guitar singing “Yours is the kingdom Yours is the power... let Heaven come...” I had never heard about Bethel, or their leader and teaching, but I had somehow adopted their theology as I was singing. I thought if I believe hard enough God will heal me. The cool thing was that as I sang this song with the perspective that no one could take the kingdom away from Jesus, I felt so encouraged as I realized how great God is. This was different from the view of a kingdom coming. Instead, I focused on the King, seated victorious on the throne. I rejoiced in His triumph. I ended up taking medicine for hpylori and I still have some issues that I deal with but I have to admit, singing Bethel songs at church and at home left me discouraged and disappointed with God. I felt He didn’t love me because He wasn’t answering my prayers made with faith. It’s more encouraging to teach of God’s goodness and wisdom and to trust Him. He knows best. I still don’t understand why I had to go through sickness for many years but I know I have grown from the person that I was before that sickness.
If you look at 2 Corinthians 13-4 (read the chapter but I'm focusing on these 2) "Blesses be the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our afflictions so that we will be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God." The Lord is our strength when we are weak so that he will get the glory. People look at my life and tell me often they don't know how i can get up and keep going. It's God and only God. My situation hasn't changed and it won't for years but I'll keep pushing into him and one day I'll be able to help others in my place and point them to God. He allows things so he will be glorified.
I get you Susan. Real pain isn’t allowed space for in the theology of Bethel. Only happy thoughts. No wonder the majority of people devoted are young, vibrant, wealthy and successful. Leaving out the majority of humanity. #whatloveisthis?
This was mandatory reading at my school too. I was a new Christian and felt a lot of condemnation for not being able to perform miracles... because of teaching like this.
Hey! I felt obligated to comment, not only because I had a similar experience, but im also a Shelby G! I hope you found a church that give you space an time to understand the role that you're going to play in your church's ministry! Cheers dearest Sister!!
The Holy Spirit is not a substance, He's a person, a part of the trinity of God. Always think in these terms when thinking of The Holy Spirit, that way He isn't used in an abusive relationship kind of way. He is there to direct us to Jesus.
@@TheElizabethashby You have a deposit.... Not the baptism. 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 King James Version (KJV) 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. Matthew 3:11 I baptize you with water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. See Baptism of the holyspirit after Salavation not during! Dosen't mean you don't have a deposit of the holyspirit. Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” The desciples were already saved here.... when JESUS said this. Shalom
@@djvn229 Acts 1:8 Yes, but Jesus hadn't returned to haven't yet, so the Holy Spirit couldn't have been poured out on the disciples yet either. That happened to EVERY believer baptized in Jesus name Don't believe the false teachings of the esoteric Christian movements.
Don’t apologize for this being a long video it has changed my life I never got bored and the words from the pages of the book burned in my mind (from the two copies that I marked up over the last 10 years )as you read them. I was a new Christian and I was deceived I threw everything away and repainted. What you can’t mention is what Bill Johnson is like when he preaches in person his revelational knowledge to you. It’s almost as though he likes to say something complicated to juggle your brain and then stands and enjoys watching you in silence. That was kind of eerie for me🌹
“It sacrifices good theology and hermeneutics on the altar of feelings and experience” - Well said Melissa! Thanks for such a well researched response to this book and false teaching.
Well done for your presentation, and for not tearing into bill johnsons character, but the skillfully woven false teaching, the seducing effect, and far reaching infection of churches and souls i used to have fellowship with over decades. Has done so much damage to the church. How ever we try to critique in light of the truth, this is a very sick minded evil man decieving and being deceived, so people like myself have no place in the church were we first turned to christ, as a result of their teaching. Such are the depths of seduction, the indignation and sense of wasted commitment we experience for seeking to defend the true gospel, being marginalised by the majority and branded as trouble makers in local churches. This teaching must be exposed at all cost, and it has cost me all
The He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" it seems there is a command that we are love God with our entire mind. I don't know of any commands that tell us to empty our minds and trust our feelings only.
You are right on about this! It doesn't matter who this offends, this needs to be heard! I was attached to Bethel for 19 years, I read the books, graduated from BSSM in 2004 and today I'm still working out the kinks of the brainwashing I was exposed to. This deception is so subtle and crafty. Bethel truly preaches a different gospel and it sounds so good and so right that people don't realize they are under a false doctrine! I made a major mistake through all this. I did not check with the scriptures to make sure that what I was being taught was the Word of God. I assumed that they knew what they were talking about and I trusted them. And one more thing I'll add, I also lost my faith because I wasn't seeing the miracles and breakthrough that was promised to me... Not promised by God, now that I see, but promised by the leaders at Bethel.
This is one thing I really thank atheists for bringing up, and that is "christianity is true because I experienced or felt it". How exactly can you discount other religions who say the exact same thing..."(name of any religion) is true because I experienced it or felt it...." truth has to have an objective solid base, or you can make up ANYTHING as truth. You have to know why you believe APART from experience. This also leads to many people who think God has left them because they dont "feel" his presence, despite his words that said "I will NEVER leave you or forsake you". I just LOVE your videos! We need more people like you. I am working on being one of them. Sadly there has been a lot of spiritual damage done and I am still learning the TRUTH apart from the many lies out here. So thank you. So VERY much for being this kind of voice in a world of extremes!
I did not know all this teaching by Bill Johnson and his cronies. Jesus Christ is my All in all. My repentance is to God, my forgiveness is from God. The cross of Christ is why I am a Christian. God's Word is inerrant Word of God for correction, information, edification.
Melissa...@58:08.., yes yes yes... "I look at scripture as authorative over my experience". You nailed it right there! I pray that for the people of Bethel.
Brian Simmons crossed a mile wide red line with the passion translation and His vision in heaven, with Jesus telling him about John 22 makes him sound like Joseph Smith.
House of Jubal i like how you say “mile wide red line” YES. This is the furthest thing from a grey area. So scary that people are not in the Word enough to immediately know to stay away. It should not even be a discussion when you hear Brian Simmons very public story.
The way these false teachers twist the meanings of the word of God brings to my mind Matthew 24:24, where Christ warns, "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect." Christians today (the elect) are in grave danger today of being deceived, and so many professing Christians are indeed deceived by these false teachings. All false teachings are against Christ (anti-Christ), but it makes me wonder if these teachings are preparing the way for the Antichrist.
The faith of Bill Johnson sounds like the Force in Star Wars. Don’t use your mind; use the force. Harnessing the thing that’s already there, the hero just has to be able to access and wield it strongly enough. Super interesting...
First Last SW was developed to propitiate luciferian theology and doctrines in a way that it would be integrated into all people’s beliefs and world view. It’s why it was so easy for people to use the books/movies as material for discipleship. There is a danger in using secular material in the Church. It’s yeast in the dough.
Bethel students are coming to my church tomorrow and I’m actually scared. I’m only going cause I want to see it for myself. I actually got a weird feeling when the pastors wife said they were coming. Please pray for me and my church family.
So apparently it was these two guys from New York that have been to Bethel. Thank God it wasn’t students from bethel cause I would have been nervous the whole time.
I've read 'The Physics of Heaven' and also have read two articles about 'crystals'! I have been shocked at the similarity between the two. Sad because Bill Johnson does come over as convincing, and I do have biblical knowledge, what is going to happen to people at Bethel who do not have thorough biblical teaching and do not have the will or the inclination to actually read the bible for themselves, but are simply going along with Bethel's teaching? I agree with Melissa here, this should never be about tearing Bill Johnson as a person apart, it should be about thoughtfully considering what, he or other teach.
She is very tactful in how she handles these issues and these wolves. You don’t have to shred the wolves to alert the flock, but people do need to warn the flock of the wolves
I think people like to cherry pick the word, taking the verses that sound good to them and leaving the rest behind them. Thank you for rightly dividing the word of God ❤
Melissa - I am only halfway thru your video and it is outstanding. I appreciate all the hard work you've done on this. As I listen to you I am constantly admonishing myself to read my bible myself more! Thank you for your work.
I felt peace when you said that you still believe in the gifts and miracles of the Lord! Thank you so kindly for helping bringing things to light. The Holy Spirit will guide us through the word of God and the more we seek Jesus in relationship the more we will know His voice. The true gospel of Jesus Christ.
don't care how long this video is, it's very insightful and sheds light in the issues of the NAR movement. thank you for this ministry! you're doing amazing things for people who are in the movements, exposing the darkness with Jesus' light!
Thank you for All your insight. My life has been a rollercoaster and now since my husband passed, I am so hurt with conviction I don't feel worthy. I pray for comfort and forgiveness. Thank you for your messages and views. I have been watching your videos for the last 2.5 hours. And joined you subscriptions. So onwards I go.
Excellent commentary. Ive never taken the time to study Bills theology in depth before but i have listened to sermons of his, only to find myself writhing with discomfort. This certainly helped me understand more broadly what Bill and Bethel teach and endorse. I absolutely love your emphasis on critical thinking. Being a believer does not require us to live our faith walk devoid of healthy criticism and appraisal. Thank you sister.
I love the graceful way Melissa is talking, even if she doesnt agree, she is graceful and not bashing, it is precious to see ❤ I wanna point out that what Bill is saying about Jesus is true, according the Word of God. It doesnt have anything to do with Jesus not being God. There is a fundamental truth that alot of christians fail to see, and it clouds the view of themselves the way God sees us. It doesnt elevate man, it elevates Jesus that much more. And i love how you keep saying we need to feed from the Word of God, is so true. And its so important to actually be in communion with Holy Spirit, and thank Him for revealing the Word to us through His eyes. We have to get the same perspective as He intended for us to receive it. Like reading the Bible with the Author Himself? How amazing is that?
The Spirit is the “guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it.” Ephesians 1:14. Seems clear that the “ultimate goal” can’t be the Spirit if the Spirit is just the temporary guarantee until we acquire the true goal, the inheritance, which Paul in Ephesians says is, “to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.” (1:10) We are united through Christ’s work on the cross, our salvation.
The Spirit of God in a person is itself the hope that a person has of a glorified existence, transitioning between terrestrial to celestial. The Lord said to Abraham: "I am your shield, your very great reward." The righteousness of God is revealed in His saints by His own spirit in them. Thats my understanding. Luke 17:21 in any translation says: "The kingdom of God is within you"
This was so appropriate for today. I have had a stirring that something wasn’t right but wasn’t aware of the full problem. It is important for us to gave the right tools to speak the truth (the Word) when meeting up with this group of believers/unbelievers.
This is one of the most refreshing messages I´ve heard in a long time! I pray that you will stay the course and that your mind will continuesly abide in the truth like it is now. God bless you and may His grace rest upon you and your family!
This was so very good Thank you! I was involved in a charismatic church for 3 years. It wasn't heavily into this stuff but pushed toungs, healings, and especially prophecy (special personal revelation). If you questioned things they would tell you that you had a legalistic spirit or critical spirit or a pharisees. My husband really got into it even claiming he had a vision of the lead pastor (bishop) having an Apostolic calling and that.some how we may family) would be "pillars" of leadership in that church. He said we'd be "stoned in the fire place" or something like that. My parents starting pointing the bibl9err and reminding me of what I learned in seminary and what I learned in their household. We finally left, well, I forced us to leave. Refusing to go back. My sister and her husband and Go to BSSM in PA. I keep asking her questions but she only gets angry and refuses to answer them. I'm fearful for them because she k owns the truth both of them but continue to run head long into it all. Claiming that God will.protect them from deception.
Good for you girl!!! I Like the fact that you decided to look at this book with an open mind! Strangely I did so today as well - I wasn't looking forward to it but I went through it in half a day. I think it is pure word of faith which has roots in (as u say) New Thought and also Christian Science. But there are some interesting and wise statements in it. Bill Johnson is a clever man with gifting. He often uses straw man arguments and what I call "either or-ism". Either or-ism is you either believe word of faith and there MUST be signs and wonders (ie no option) or you are a cessationist. No in between ground, which of course is never true. There are plenty of believers who are not cessationists but who do not think we have to indulge in charismania. Often in this book he says that miracles have to be meaningful. However many of the manifestations he refers to do not have meaning - feathers that descend, gold dust, etc. This tells me that he wants to live in the supernatural, which has real dangers. This is because the supernatural isn't always good. St Paul was given tremendous insights (much of which he says was not to be revealed - see 2 Corinthians 12) and for that he had a heavy cost of infirmity. Where Bill Johnson is strong in this is book is as follows:- "Religion" versus living Christianity:- I get this. This issue is covered on page 81 of "When Heaven Invades" - he talks about where Church has become rote, and lifeless, and pure tradition, where we do things we control and are well within our comfort zone. I like the way he uses the Church at Ephesus as an example of how (perhaps) heresy hunting can deplete your love for God. They are told they had lost their first love. I have wondered if there might be a connection between their approach and what happened to their "first love". on pg 91 he says that "Christianity is not a philosophy it is a relationship!" I would agree with that. Like you say he stresses the familiar enemies of Word of Faith - poverty, physical healing. Yes it is dotted throughout but not really worked out. Word of Faith always has problems with the concept of prosperity. They confuse spiritual with physical and material prosperity. The classic scripture that is mangled is Isaiah 53 - By his stripes we are healed. This is redemption and acceptance with God and our sins blotted out. They say that it is also mandatory to be healed physically. See the awful bondage and confusion (and pain) this can cause people who do not get healed. Another thing you point out is that they have a very weak and passive God - He only responds to the activity of the Church. I could say loads more but you are right on it God bless you. And something else that occurred to me today after reading this book. Bill Johnson is trying to be a man of God. I don't think he is going the right way, and as u say he is highly critical of Bible students. You get the feeling he thinks it is time to put the Bible away as its an obstacle - see page 142 ("our present understanding of Scripture can only take us so far"). His defence of miracles is almost manic - "without miracles there can never be a full revelation of Jesus" (pg 126) Also pg 127 says "Miracles Help People Obey God" (But the parable of Lazarus & the rich man Luke 16:31 shows that this isn't always the case. Here the existing written word is stressed as the most reliable guide to life) I agree to with what u say that striving to make positive confessions and enough prayer enough faith etc etc makes God a sort of wishing well or charm or amulet to produce what I want. The strength of many highly charismatic and word of faith churches is their energy youth and zest. They are good at getting people into the kingdom. But they are not good at getting people mature, making people stick with it when it gets tough (eg the Book of Hebrews). Also de-contextualising scripture into small positive "gobbets" to make mantras is a real feature of this type of church. You notice something about these churches too - they never produce commentaries on scripture - the Bible is a tool for getting people what they want. As u say God is not for them an end in Himself. If He isn't handing out bread, or if He is giving out "hard sayings" today, they are off. But that was true then - he was left with the 12 - and it may well be true again today. Lets pray for Bill and each other!!
I'm watching this video for a second and it's so great. Thank you so much for taking the time to dig deep into this book. It's interesting, the thing I'm really starting to see with this book and others like it, is that it's just so much work. It's always, "do all these things, and then God can use you to do all these things" It's exhausting. I'm so grateful that over the last few years, God has opened my eyes to see what the Bible actually says so I can have better discernment and think critically about what I'm reading and listening to and to help others along the way. Thank you for your ministry Melissa!
Melissa, you've been my new favorite RUclips channel for a few weeks now. This particular video took me a few days to get through, simply because of time sake, but WOW it's been so informative and a GREAT listen. I'm so thankful for your research and sharing your experiences. Also how you show love to those you disagree with is so refreshing and defineitely who I am, thanks to God alone. This was just such a great video and critique! Love you sis! Looking forward to more videos
I am plastering this video everywhere. People need to hear this. I absolutely love your breakdown and the humbleness of your heart as you do this. Thank you for what you do!!
People want power but the problem is they're looking in the wrong place. The power is in the cross. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;... (Romans 1:16) The "it" is the "gospel of Christ" and that is where the "power" is. Thanks for exposing error and standing for truth! I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 3:14)
It is so nice to know that I’m not in this journey alone. I found your videos at the absolute perfect time. My family keeps heading deeper and deeper into the NAR and I am the only one who now sees the issues with it. It breaks my heart and it’s so confusing for me, as this is what I was raised to believe and what my family still preaches. My cousins are pastors at one of the largest/well known NAR church in America.. how do I even navigate that?
Thank you for taking the time to look into this! It's a long video, but the time went by suoer quick! You make a lot of excellent points. I will be praying for Bethel's leaders and congregation. I really like how you break everything down Biblically and didn't attack, but lovingly pointed out issues. Great work!
SPOT ON! I love this book review! I was lying in bed unknowingly dying of toxic shock in Oct 2016. I didn't know anything about God/Jesus before God so mercifully revealed himself to me on that day. He unfolded numerous miracles very quickly, and He spared my life. Although I didn't know God before that moment, I KNEW with everything in me that He was my creator. He quickly led me to purchase my first ever bible and I couldn't get enough of reading the scriptures. God did use Bill Johnson, and many other Charismatics in my journey, but about 6 months back, God pulled me out of my NAR church, and revealed to me that I wasn't to "follow" in the Charismatic NAR footsteps. I have truly become a new creature in Christ, and am a completely different person than I was. I currently read my Bible every day (I'm still so hungry and read as much as I possibly can), and don't even go to church. I assume maybe God will plug me into another church eventually, but for those that try to judge me as "not a good Christian", because I don't go to church, is crazy to me. All I need is Jesus! I probably read my Bible much more than those that are judging me to be a bad Christian. I struggle to trust other's scripture interpretation, so I think its VITAL that I read all scripture FOR MYSELF. I don't need someone else to tell me what they think scripture means. All I need to do is read it for myself as led by the Holy Spirit. I think therein lies the biggest issue. If people read the Bible for themselves, they too would be led into all truth, and recognize other false teachings. Like you mention though, I don't think most of the charismatics intended to fall away from the scriptures. I think they got lost along the way. I believe Bill Johnson and so many others are sincere in their journeys. So although God blessed me with an incredible testimony/experience, God quickly led me to purchase a KJV bible, and He taught me through the scriptures what had happened to me (Born Again), the Holy Spirit pointed me to Jesus as my Savior, and then God gently revealed to me my sinful nature...and that's when I became remorseful for sinful lifestyle. It was Jesus living in me when I began to transform into a new creature. I also question those that yell at "lost" people to "Repent!" I didn't even know I was a wretch until AFTER God had mercy on me and saved me, and THEN God revealed to me that I was a wretch and I repented. Blind sinners can't recognize they are sinners. God reveals that. Personally, I share my testimony/experience, but I quickly share the gospel, because it's the gospel that saves...not experiences, etc. May God Bless you! Thank you for taking the time to compile this video.
What a lovely testimony! I too was blessed to have an experience, and it brought to Christ and repentance. The simple gospel is all we need. I admit, I long for another encounter, and the refreshing from my Lord, But if is not from the one true Jesus, what’s the point?! I will be gently refreshed daily instead. Oh but that does require “work” gotta pick up the word and actually read it! Lol, that’s a lot to ask folks for these days!
As a Christian of 35 years and havng seen many 'voices' come and go, I'm so thankful for being at a place where l can focus on the simplicity of relationship with Jesus and link myself only with those that enhance that.. even if it's Bill Johnson.
Just to add one more point Melissa. As I carry on hearing your presentation you open up more and more things that I thought also were alarming. Almost no mention of the Cross till way over half way through. Teachers or ministers can be assessed not just by what they say but also by what they avoid saying. I agree too with what you said about that "salvation not the ultimate goal" - that statement should sadden us. It remains me of what the Lord said to the 70 returning from their mission who rejoiced that the spirits were subject to them. he said don't rejoice in this but in that your names are written in heaven (I paraphrase a bit). This is in Luke's gospel I think. You make a great point when "heaven" is sort of exalted over Jesus. Yes you put it very well. You're doing great I think. Yes yes yes reading and studying scripture DOES NOT make you a Pharisee. Remember that the Holy Spirit's (of whom Jesus made many predictions in John 13-17) role is to remind them of the things he said (part of which is the reason for the New Testament itself) and to glorify Him, to reveal the things of Him and to do nothing "of His own". The Spirit's role is to exalt Jesus.
Good point. If they never want to preach on the Cross of Christ, the very means of our redemption from sin, then you know they will be even less willing to teach that WE , too, must “take up our cross and walk”....we are weak in this life, and glorious in the next.
Oh gosh. Thank you SO much for taking the (long long long) time to read, study, share, review... this book! I wanted to share my discomfort with Bethel music being played at my church, and shared this with my spouse. He really wanted to know more about this Bill Johnson dude and what his heart and mind really are up to (bad, good, OK, no big deal, kinda a big deal, horrible..?? .etc!) and this is such a great reference I can send people to. I listened to it over 2 days; while doing food prep, then cleaning the kitchen, rooms, our cat, bathrooms, and then nursing my babe to sleep. haha! Made it work, really wanted to listen to this in its entirety. THANK YOU!
I agree, The Bible actually instructs a person to test "the spirits", and to search the scriptures diligently especially when attending teachings like this. Check out Acts 17:11
Great job on this! I’ve been trying to look the other way for a while and even changed churches but I see young people I know heading out to Redding to get “schooled” and they are bringing it back. It reminds me of the John Wimber / Vineyard teachings from and earlier time. In fact I pulled this from Bill’s website where he says; “My greatest breakthrough in ministry came after attending two conferences in 1987 put on by John Wimber.” It’s all about signs and wonders and the healing “I” get to do. And they are using the music to get the young ensnared. Rock and roll is no longer the devils music of choice.
Melissa - well done and with a right spirit. I first watched you on an interview with Mike Heiser, whom I greatly respect. Years ago (coming up on 47 years ago!) I came out of the occult, Aliester Crowley and that kind of stuff - I did have a very "supernatural" encounter but not the type described by the Bethel crowd. And I've been digging deep in the scriptures for all the years since that day and by the Lord's grace will continue to do so. I'm very engaged with a Calvary Chapel in Kent Washington and also with some very dear friends going deep into the Muslim world with the real gospel of the Kingdom which includes the deep, deep message of the Cross! Willing to lay down their lives... On another note, if you haven't read anything from Joel Richardson I would recommend him regarding eschatology. I personally know Joel, very down to earth, like you seem to be, very grounded in the Scriptures. May our gracious God continue to watch over us and keep us unto His Glorious appearing - in the interim let us labor hard as you are doing! Greg Parker
I've experienced these New Thought teaching first hand. I grew up in it. I felt like something was off but I didn't know any better. Now that I've seen this video it's beginning to make sense. Thank you Jesus for saving me! Thank you Melissa for your diligent work on this topic!
Excellent job at dissecting this book! Your presentation was grace-filled, loving, direct, and knowledgeable. Thank you for your hard work! Very helpful!
So glad you did this study. I read that book years ago from a class i was taking at the foursquare church i had been attending. The book was very confusing for me. I am still trying to unlearn the errors i believed. Anyway thanks for putting this online.
I am so glad that someone has the guts to address this and call people out. Thank you. I thought like you that all Christians are good people and believe in the same thing, but now I see that that is not the truth. It is scary and heartbreaking to learn how 'bend out of shape' some people are. God bless and thank you for informing us about the negative vs the positive.
Amazing job. Thank you for doing these videos. I was once caught up in bethel teachings. I am fully convinced that I was still a true saved christian, but it created a ton of discontent in me. I am so glad to be free of all that nonsense.
Joel Splawn Yes! That’s it! It keeps one discontent! They focus on the supernatural, but there’s a lot of worldliness too, because it’s not enough about Jesus!!!!!
Melissa, all I can say is "Yes Girl!" 👏👏👏 I truly appreciate your hard work and loving manner of representing truth. A small group I'm apart of just started reading "The supernatural power of a transformed mind" By Bill Johnson. I've only read a few pages and I knew it did not sit well with my spirit. You've been able to articulate what's been stirring in my heart. I know feel better equipped to search the scriptures and "test the spirit" as I meet with my small group again. Thank you!
Oh my goodness. Iived under this for 7 years. It elevated getting a platform and that messed me up. It made me look for a 'mantle' inside the church when we are called to be lights in the world. So many other things. "Don't think too much." BRAIN BAD. WORD PLUS. Faith is EVERYTHING. Believing for things instead of asking God to provide for me according to HIS will. It caused me to be depressed and suicidal because I wasn't "platformed" and I wasn't healed. Thank God I got out. It was abuse. Praise the Lord for leading me back to the Word and not platform's and encounters.
GIRL YES! This is such a thorough analysis. I am so thankful for this video. I watched the entire thing. It is mind-blowing how many people are aimlessly following him without evaluating anything! Also, Bethel Redding's most recent video (Nov 15th) literally goes to defend their stance & "movement" basically like Bill did in this book lol. Ugh keep it up girl. This is CRUCIAL for the body of Christ. We need to be aware. Let's pray for repentance.
Amazing presentation, Mellissa. I’m so encouraged seeing a young adult Christian so filled with biblical wisdom and intelligent analysis. I pray many people would hear this video and heed its well researched, loving message. Well done, sister in Christ.
nothing in life is ever "that simple". And don't suppose biblical truth doesn't also "cause confusion" among Christians, since none of us understands in full.
Thank you for being there. Unveiling how religion is changing and how to understand what the Lord wishes us to do. I picked up my Bible today and I'm reading James, to be followed by Galatians. :-)
WOW thank you for this study. I watched all 2.5 hrs, and am glad I did not choose to read this book that my brother gave me. My brother has absorbed this Signs and Wonders bit along with healings... he even studied and was ordained in a since (from a ministry in Idaho) to cast out demons (even casting demons out from Christians). I attended a church in Portland OR for 22 years that when I started had some good scholarly teachings, but in the late 90s devolved into Signs and Wonders. I could not stay there. I later attended an Emergent/Emerging church (until I realized how their higher intellectualism was really liberalism theology)... it is hard to find a good church to be a part of today. Thank you again for this study. It has helped me understand what I had seen develop in the churches around the late 90s that i just could not understand fully back then. God bless and keep pressing in. You will hear those precious words someday... Well done the good and faithful servant.
Thank u for sharing Ms. Dougherty! I've been listening to u and Doreen Virtues video's and I'm learning so much about what should be, meaning The Word!!! God bless u all!!!!🙏🙏🙏🙏
@@MelissaDougherty I have a sister and her husband (a self proclaimed prophet and close friend of Bill Johnson) who have gotten caught up in all of this nonsense. It breaks my heart. I am also perplexed about the number of churches who are singing all of the songs without any critical analysis of what these songs are saying and the doctrine that is behind them. I am a reformed theology pastor, but not a hater of continuationist theology. I am all about the Word of God being the authority. Please let me know if you have any recommended resources for helping people see the theological problems in Bethel. Also, please feel free to go to www.everydaydevotion.org. This is a daily verse by verse devotional I write. I am currently in the middle of Romans. Many blessings to you.
I realize it’s been a LONG time since you posted this video, but I can’t help but hope you’ll see my comment. I’ve read this book after being given it by Bill after he came to speak at a small ministry school I was in at the time he wrote it. While I don’t remember all that’s in it, I do remember walking away from his teachings with the understanding that it was not the job of people to make heaven manifest, but to be obedient to God through faith in a way that we partner with his sovereignty. Later I heard him talk again of praying for healing for his father, who was not healed, but died. He talked of the ridicule he received by people who didn’t understand that it was never in his power to heal, but that it was always him just asking God to do His will. And he said something I’ve never forgotten, that suffering is a gift, because in it we can praise God, which is a gift no other created being can give to God: praise in suffering. I don’t know if he teaches some new age stuff today or not, this was all over 15 years ago, but, I do think maybe some of the things he says in this book sound like new age when you come from that world, but that he maybe doesn’t mean it in the same way...? In any case, I appreciate your perspective and your kindness when sharing it!
I am amazed at how much of what Bill Johnson teaches that parallels New Thought that I was taught in Word Faith. When I began studying the New Age I saw many similarities to Word Faith, but New Age was very much mixed with occult practices. I barely see any daylight between Bill Johnson's Dominion Now Theology and Word Faith except that Word Faith never taught that we were going to bring the Kingdom of God to earth. Word Faith eschatology was, at least what I was taught in the 80s, rapture/tribulation/millennium. Very informative. Thank you Melissa.
One bible verse that kept at me everytime I believed insigns and wonders was: "Lord, lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not cast out demons in your name? and do many miracles in your name?" On that day I will say to them, "Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness, I never knew you".
The kingdom of God is here: Mark 1:14-15 NIV After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. [15] 15 “The time has come ,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news !” seems Jesus believed that his coming was the inauguration of the kingdom of God. Granted, the kingdom is not here fully as it will be at Christ's return. Nonetheless, the kingdom is here and is being extended to the world by the Holy Spirit working in conjunction with the church.stream.org/gods-kingdom-already-not-yet/
Thanks Melissa. I can see this is so prevalent in the teachings of many churches. I appreciate your taking the time to bring this to us. I am very grateful to God for his written word that leads us to truth.
I would have been so frustrated while explaining these things! You handled it soo well, kudos to you for getting through the book and for working really hard on this video! I really appreciated it! God bless xo
It is a blessing to see a young woman so Biblically literate and clear thinking. The lack of Biblical soundness in professing Christians today is abysmal.
Watching this breaks my heart because there is a fairly large and growing church in my small corner of Atlantic Canada that is drawing in so many young people by modelling the teachings of Bethel. I feel at a loss as I’ve tried to reach out to those I love to warn them about being led astray. My warnings fall on deaf ears and more and more young people are being drawn in to this. They have zeal and fellowship but lack in biblical understanding.
My soul is literally aching right now. God please deliver them
So today a woman at the gym was telling me about her cancer journey and how her higher power and crystals had healed her...I felt like mini Melissa telling her the higher power who heals is Jesus,and He warns against believing in and using crystals.Practicing being truthful even if it’s in comfy.But it actually felt great.Thanks for your example.
Susan Zumback have you read the “beautiful side of evil”? Good book that I read like 20 years ago from someone leaving new age healing thru demon named jesus. It opened my eyes and helped me recognize not Holy Spirit in certain things. I stick to the written Scriptures. Jesus and The Word are one (John 1). Blessings. ❤️
If that's what happened with that lady with cancer, then she's taken on a demon.... counterfeit miracles
Good for you! I have been practicing too. I have found the more I study and grow the easier it is. It's actually more uncomfortable to be silent
@@MendedAndWholeLife oh my goodness. That book is AMAZING. Read it 20 years ago. Thanks for mentioning it. I actually bought a copy for a friend who was "dabbling" (jumping) into control and manipulation thru the occult.
It's all about control. People want to control their own lives and not surrender to God. Sad. Surrender brings freedom to let God decide what's best for us.
Ten years ago, this book was recommended to me, and at the time I was very impressed and bought his further books, listened to all his podcasts, etc. But I started to feel that something was wrong with the emphasis on signs and wonders as an end in themselves, and the view of Jesus as a mere man who we should copy, so as to wow the unbelieving world. I lost my husband tragically and suddenly five years ago. I could never have processed my loss and kept my faith in Jesus if I had thought like a Bethelite. Instead I have a much deeper relationship with Christ, accepting that He decided in His sovereignty that my husband had run his race. I needed to avoid the charismatics who could not understand the peace I had in the face of tragedy. While Bill Johnson has said some inspiring things, I've thrown out all his books. Jesus is everything, He is Lord, He is the author of Scripture, He is Messiah, and His miracles on earth were UNIQUE to attest to the fact that He was the One promised from Genesis to Revelation. To downgrade Scripture compared with personal experience is insane. No wonder many fall away from the faith when experience lets them down!
Gaby Meyer wow, this is beautifully written! 1st I’m sorry for your loss. You are so right, if we are not grounded in the real Jesus we will a deeper state of confusion rather then acceptance of Gods sovereignty and peace that comes with laying ourselves aside for what only Jesus can give us. So much new age in the church, (like yoga) especially books being promoted! Stay away from Jesus Calling! That book was channeled! God bless you sister!
Amen Gaby!
Hope and prayers that all is well with you sister..
Amen! Totally agree with this.
May Jesus comfort you and bless you ❤❤❤
Gaby thank you for a very brave input here. I think there is high turnover in Bill Johnson's type of church, and this is sad. Many of the things they hold to do not work out there in real life. Much of real life isn't (a) sensational (b) controversial and (c) supernatural. Our faith has to be fit for "Monday morning" and has to have legs to go the whole way. The 2 analogies that Paul uses most often in the NT for the Christian walk are the military one (ie a fight for which we need to be equipped) and a race, athletic contest for which we need to be fit. Much of fitness is boring and repetitive, but in the end it yields fruit. You come through it. God bless
Gaby, thank you for sharing your this. Your God given strength, your insight and spiritual health are worth more than anything this world can ever offer. These are the real miracles, the real blessings in Christ.
The other day I was clearing up space on my laptop and an iMessage strand popped up where I was defending Bill Johnson and Bethel like a madman. Funny how at the time I was talking to the person I had committed heinous sexual sin with. I thought I was an authority on Bethel...
But then my friend and I prayed for Jesus to make us more like Him, stripping away all things that were wrong.
1.) He tore away my sexual sin and rebuked me hardcore.
2.) He shattered my delirious beliefs I held about the NAR.
3.) I lost a relationship with an incredibly good friend because of my sin, but because the Lord was protecting them from me.
4.) Then the Lord transformed my mind and called me into ministry and set my heart on witnessing the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ to my beloved friends not only in the NAR but in the Mormon faith as well. 😭
We need to be critical of any and every belief, SO THAT we can truly love the Lord our God without any barriers.
He rebuked you, because He loves you.....i am glad you are doing well and realize that He rends so as to mend. He is a good Father, and if we sin repeatedly, or heinously, and are not reprimanded and disciplined, it is because we are NOT His children. I hope you are doing well and grounded not only in the fact that he loves you, but that he is sovereign, and we are not. It takes a lot of pressure off of us when we just decide to let Him have His way. God bless you.
I was in a Bethel centric church for several years. I was working on my PhD and was derided for that. The pastor made jabs from the pulpit that you didn't need higher education. I was constantly told I should STOP thinking and live by my spirit. I am so glad that God brought me out of that.
Susan L. McGee I had a similar experience as a leader for a college campus ministry. I was made to feel guilty for enjoying reading and studying Scripture through passive aggressive jabs, like “knowledge can be used for evil too, you know” and “just knowing of and reading Scripture doesn’t save people” (of course I know this is true). I was told that God is bigger than his word and that I was limiting myself by putting God in a box. I was called a Pharisee several times. I always had a feeling that my superiors in the campus ministry viewed me as a project to be fixed.
A lot of guilt and shame followed. But Christ, in His lovingkindness, brought me out of this group to live in his Truth.
Yikes! That's scary. My sister's pastor thinks that way. That is so backward to me. Why wouldn't you want your people to be educated? I'm praying for churches that think this way.
@@mcgheebentle1958 praise God.
Whats it with bethel centric church leaders and attacking people from the pulpit, its their thing
“God does heal, but he does it in his sovereignty.” YES!!!!!!!
Yes it is God who heals
And cripples
@@jbm7335 This is where I struggle. I agree with this video. Most of what we see from these mega churches is false. I have been searching for God and places like Bethel have always made me uneasy for the reasons she describes. With that said, there are many scriptures that seem to clearly say it has to do with our faith, so saying that it's up to God doesn't sound right. Most of the times when Jesus healed someone, he said that it was because of their faith and not to prove himself as many simply. To me, scripture teaches healing. I haven't seen it in my on life though and desperately need it as I have a serious and incurable disease, so it leaves me confused.
@@milah24 I'm sorry to hear that, I know it must be terribly hard on your whole family and it's only natural in our human capacity to fear for the future which is nothing to be ashamed of.
However our faith has to work together with God's will, we cannot tell God what his will is, his will is his own.
Our human faith can never "overcome" the will of God (you can't force God to act when it's not his plan to act a certain way).
As believers we have to trust that God works ALL THINGS (good and bad) for the ultimate good of all who love him.
So if it is God's will to heal a person, they will be healed but if it is not they won't, but this is a good thing even if from our perspective it might not seem so.
Job is a good book to read, because it demonstrates how Job went through adversity and still maintained faith in God, even while in the thick of it and not knowing how it would turn out.
He was in the middle of multiple deaths of his family and personal losses and he understood through it all that whatever God's plan is, it's what's best.
Remember that God loves you to the point he was willing to send his own Son to die so that you may have everlasting life, so please don't doubt God's goodness or assume you are being punished.
Maybe this can clear some questions you may have: www.gotquestions.org/healing-Bible.html
@@milah24 the scriptures says the power that saves is the same power that heals Jms5:14-16;Mk2:5-9. Acts10:38 Jesus healed all that were oppressed of the devil, for God was with Him.
Watch the Kingdom of Heaven/God by Howard Williams of Open Face Ministry. God bless
Actually, God does not heal sovereignly. He chooses to do it through his kids (Ps 116:15, 1 Cor 3:9)
I love your gentle and loving approach to Bill Johnson. Though you disagree you don't demonize and bash him. That reveals the heart of God. Thank you for your example ❤️😊
I appreciate that, thank you! We should pray for him and give him grace when needed, and correction when necessary ❤️🙏
Jonathan David - I don’t think there are many misconceptions about his beliefs. He makes it pretty clear. Just because he contradicts himself, doesn’t mean he doesn’t believe both things. I think her early statement sums it up. It’s all about “fake it ‘till ya make it”.
Melissa Dougherty 100% yes.
@@KamalaKackles I wonder what heresy we'd uncover from your ministry? :)
No one ever does videos on how to Continually show grace, be patient, etc. to an unbelieving husband. Not a good video at least that's keeps it real like you do. You are a great teacher to us and I need taught..its a good lesson anyways
i was so hopeful that my sister's cancer would be healed and so grieved and depressed when she died young. I know we cannot explain why some get healed and some do not. I am grateful for the faith for a miraculous healing.
10:53 your story about your husband’s jet ski had me in tears. This is exactly what it feels like to be in this movement. You try EVERYTHING and declare everything and cling on to those “promises” God gave you and every year it doesn’t happen you try to figure out what you’re doing wrong and what can be done differently.
It’s why people leave the “faith.” And it’s all works-based 😭
The idea is that our experiences are not to dictate our doctrine. God’s Word alone is. Regardless of whether or not we perceive it as “working.”
So, for example, Isaiah 53:4-5 says that by His stripes we are healed. We stand on that promise, ready to die standing on it, refusing to relinquish faith in it because of an experience.
Finally somebody who understands oh my gosh just like I'm reading you or you really like my life exactly how it feels you declare and decree put the man's on God I'm in the audacity of us thinking that we could tell God what to do but in the faith movement that's what they teach because they twist the scriptures for yourself like you have the power you have a purpose and I'm like what purpose is that I always was looking for my purpose in Christ and I could never find it and I thought that was something wrong with me because everybody else had a purpose it seemed
@The Amazing Grace Please tell me, when you mention Doreen Virtue, are you saying she is a New Ager? I didn't know about her until 2 days ago when i watched this video and thought she was exposing the false prophets and therefore above board as a believer....
ruclips.net/p/PLFuOx9y02OBfp2Pm3OwUtKwOU0Ew5BXC_
@@shulamite7940 by now you've probably already discovered for yourself, but Doreen Virtue is a former New Ager. Christ saved her our of the New Age and she is now a gracious but determined testifier of the truth as found in the Word of God. Praise the Lord!
Paul didn't control the weather either.... and he was in it for days on end .....
Robert Yoder Thank you! Nice to see someone else who agrees on this point!
Good point
1.5 hours in. I really appreciate how you are able to dig in on this without be petty, rude, mean. Just in truth and love and with concern.
Thank you, I appreciate that. Firm Truth but in love goes a looooong way.
Hi!
I'm not sure how you figured I was 'tearing' him down. Did you watch this video? It's his theology that's the issue. I make that point very obvious.
With all due respect, did you even watch this video?
Nowhere did I call him an 'ungodly monster'. And yes, they have their 'Passion Translation', which I go over in some detail in this video. It's a very simple observation.
I'd ask that you please watch in full first before making such claims. I do this with the knowledge that I shouldn't be careless with my words or assumptions.
I've been a Christian forever and on fire for Jesus and I don't speak in tongues and grow weary of those who say I must.
You don't have to but why wouldn't you want to?
@Bronze I would not attend that church.
Pay no attention to those people. You aren't saved by speaking in tongues. Period.
30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? First Corinthian’s chapter 14
Pray for the baptism of the Holy Ghost and for the gift of speaking in Tongues. God gives us our desires. Please don't try away from what God would like for you to have.
What I'm hearing Bill Johnson say throughout this book is, "Leave your brain at the door and pay no attention to the heretic behind that curtain!"
Thank you for this video 🥲 I’m watching it 3 years later and it’s just heartbreaking. I hate to see this sort of watered down gospel infiltrating so many of my friend’s and family’s churches and studies. You handled this with so much grace and still didn’t forfeit truth. Thank you for your diligence.
Confession: I’m not going to lie. I used to avoid your videos when RUclips would suggest them to me because I thought surely someone who didn’t believe the same theology as me would be lacking in grace and love. I didn’t even want to entertain the idea of pressing play on your videos. Im now going back and watching like all of your videos and im so grateful for your content.
Melissa - You are a GEM! I just stumbled across you via another one of your videos; I've seen two or three others by now, and I think you have the most amazing Clarity about your subject, as you proceed to elucidate your various points that illumine the splendid truth of what you have to offer to the conversation... THANK YOU for being there! And may God's blessings be all over your ministry!
Your speaking skills and empathy towards understanding different points of view have greatly improved throughout the years. Keep this up!
Hi there. I listened to the whole presentation and read most of the comments, and some of your replies. You can tell by their comments, those that didn't listen to the whole presentation and or had a critical bias toward you. I believe your research and preparedness for this presentation was nothing short of the highest quality. You are at a level of apologetics that many wish they were at but are not willing to do the work necessary to achieve it. You were never personal and always directed to "Bill's Gospel or teachings."
You keep going. Don't get discouraged. Let God use you and He will keep doing mighty works through you. I'm slowly catching up on your videos. Be Blessed.
“Our churches are filled with Christians who are idling in intellectual neutral. As Christians, their minds are going to waste. One result of this is an immature, superficial faith. People who simply ride the roller coaster of emotional experience are cheating themselves out of a deeper and richer Christian faith by neglecting the intellectual side of that faith. They know little of the riches of deep understanding of Christian truth, of the confidence inspired by the discovery that one's faith is logical and fits the facts of experience, of the stability brought to one's life by the conviction that one's faith is objectively true.” - William Lane Craig in Passionate Conviction
Worse, tinytina; far too many pew-renter, nearly-saved folks have had the devils sugar tipped into their petrol tanks. And have dead engines !!!!!
As a new believer, I was swept up in alot of these teachings. One day I felt to take a step back and examine my fruit. I was striving so hard to live up to what they taught, my husband was suffering with a brain tumor and I believed with all my heart that he would be healed if I did what these people taught. When I realized I was frustrated, sad, my faith was diminishing instead of growing, and my husband was not healed I knew something was amiss.
I appreciate teachings like yours that helped me to dig deeper and to find spiritual healing.
It was surrender to the Lordship of Jesus and choosing day by day to trust Him no matter what that changed my life❤️ God bless you for speaking truth!
This is right on track, being from Redding and knowing people who have gone to Bethel you can really see these attitudes and actions in them. Thank you for digging into these topics!
I’m thankful for this video! It has confirmed so much of what I have been trying to figure out on my own for about six months. I have some close friends whom I am part of a prayer group with. They love the Lord and have beautiful hearts for Gods people. They would often talk about Bill and Heidi Baker and how their teachings had grown their faith. I knew very little about them so thought to give them a listen. I tried to listen to them on a few occasions but minutes into their sermons got a check in my spirit and turned them off. I went on my merry way until one day I came across a “drunk in the spirit video” that rocked my world. I was so disturbed by it that I shared it with my one of my friends and asked her thoughts. She came back of course defending their behavior and even admitted to having these experiences herself. I couldn’t shake this and something felt so off with everything. I was becoming so withdrawn and confused because I honestly didn’t know what was truth. It was like a bad dream. I had people I trusted, who were older than me and in my opinion, more spiritually mature telling me I was wrong and my concerns were essentially the devil trying to make me doubt Gods works. But I wasn’t content with that. I felt something very different in my spirit. It became this daily journey of prayer and tears and lots of studying the Word. I realized I didn’t know the Bible as much as I thought and how did I know everything I had been taught throughout my life was truly interpreted correctly. God took me on a journey of shaking out all the bad theology I had set up in my mind through a desire to read and devour the scripture like my life depended on it. After many months, the pieces of the puzzle are starting to fit together and I’m seeing that everything I was feeling in my spirit was God warning me and bringing me away from deception. I have tried earnestly to talk with my friends about Bill and his theology and they still think I’m the one who’s deceived. They even know scripture, which I just don’t understand. I’m not sure what God wants to do through all of this, but I’m so grateful for His faithfulness through this whole thing. It’s been very hard to be one of the few who’s eyes have been mercifully opened. Bill and others within this movement have influence that is so far-reaching, I literally can’t escape it. I’m so baffled by how many people buy into this, then on the other hand it’s no wonder bc we just don’t know the Word of God. Read your Bible friends! It’s the only thing that will keep you in truth.
Don't worry about the length of your videos. I watch them a little bit at a time while I'm cleaning or something, and get through them over a couple of days. Thank you for all the work you put into making them, the message you're sharing is very important. ☺️
At 1 hour and 6 minutes there is the discussion about "My sheep know my voice." My personal testimony is when I came to this portion of Scripture I kept asking God, "What does the voice of the shepherd sound like?" For many years God was silent, until after being invited to a Pentecostal cult by a co-worker, and then realizing it was wrong. I knew I was going to have to meet up with him and it wasn't going to be pretty. So I asked God if He couldn't please give me something to take with me when I went to work the following morning. When I opened my Bible I was in John 10 again, so I asked God again, "What does the voice of the shepherd sound like?" I expected nothing, because for years He'd been silent. This time He said, "Turn to John 1:1." Although I already knew what it said I quickly turned to that verse and read it. Then I lifted my Bible in the air and said, "This is the voice of the shepherd?" I didn't hear anything, but I felt His smile of affirmation. So when this man says Jesus didn't say My sheep hear my book," he's wrong, because His Book, the Bible, is His voice, the voice of the shepherd. (sorry for the running commentary)
I remember a few years ago sitting on my bed really sick with my guitar singing “Yours is the kingdom Yours is the power... let Heaven come...”
I had never heard about Bethel, or their leader and teaching, but I had somehow adopted their theology as I was singing. I thought if I believe hard enough God will heal me. The cool thing was that as I sang this song with the perspective that no one could take the kingdom away from Jesus, I felt so encouraged as I realized how great God is. This was different from the view of a kingdom coming. Instead, I focused on the King, seated victorious on the throne. I rejoiced in His triumph. I ended up taking medicine for hpylori and I still have some issues that I deal with but I have to admit, singing Bethel songs at church and at home left me discouraged and disappointed with God. I felt He didn’t love me because He wasn’t answering my prayers made with faith. It’s more encouraging to teach of God’s goodness and wisdom and to trust Him. He knows best. I still don’t understand why I had to go through sickness for many years but I know I have grown from the person that I was before that sickness.
If you look at 2 Corinthians 13-4 (read the chapter but I'm focusing on these 2) "Blesses be the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our afflictions so that we will be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God."
The Lord is our strength when we are weak so that he will get the glory. People look at my life and tell me often they don't know how i can get up and keep going. It's God and only God. My situation hasn't changed and it won't for years but I'll keep pushing into him and one day I'll be able to help others in my place and point them to God. He allows things so he will be glorified.
I get you Susan. Real pain isn’t allowed space for in the theology of Bethel. Only happy thoughts. No wonder the majority of people devoted are young, vibrant, wealthy and successful. Leaving out the majority of humanity. #whatloveisthis?
This was mandatory reading at my school too. I was a new Christian and felt a lot of condemnation for not being able to perform miracles... because of teaching like this.
Hey! I felt obligated to comment, not only because I had a similar experience, but im also a Shelby G! I hope you found a church that give you space an time to understand the role that you're going to play in your church's ministry! Cheers dearest Sister!!
The Holy Spirit is not a substance, He's a person, a part of the trinity of God. Always think in these terms when thinking of The Holy Spirit, that way He isn't used in an abusive relationship kind of way. He is there to direct us to Jesus.
WHEN YOU BECOME BORN AGAIN WE HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IN US ALL
@@TheElizabethashby You have a deposit.... Not the baptism.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 King James Version (KJV)
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Matthew 3:11
I baptize you with water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
See Baptism of the holyspirit after Salavation not during! Dosen't mean you don't have a deposit of the holyspirit.
Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
The desciples were already saved here.... when JESUS said this.
Shalom
More than that. Read St. Ambrose (On the Holy Spirit).
@@djvn229 Acts 1:8 Yes, but Jesus hadn't returned to haven't yet, so the Holy Spirit couldn't have been poured out on the disciples yet either. That happened to EVERY believer baptized in Jesus name
Don't believe the false teachings of the esoteric Christian movements.
Their eschatology can be blown away simply by quoting “but as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.”
Hi, Melissa thank you for the hard work in doing this. Thank you for your faithfulness in serving Christ. Lots of love from Spain.
Don’t apologize for this being a long video it has changed my life I never got bored and the words from the pages of the book burned in my mind (from the two copies that I marked up over the last 10 years )as you read them. I was a new Christian and I was deceived I threw everything away and repainted. What you can’t mention is what Bill Johnson is like when he preaches in person his revelational knowledge to you. It’s almost as though he likes to say something complicated to juggle your brain and then stands and enjoys watching you in silence. That was kind of eerie for me🌹
“It sacrifices good theology and hermeneutics on the altar of feelings and experience” - Well said Melissa! Thanks for such a well researched response to this book and false teaching.
Well done for your presentation, and for not tearing into bill johnsons character, but the skillfully woven false teaching, the seducing effect, and far reaching infection of churches and souls i used to have fellowship with over decades. Has done so much damage to the church. How ever we try to critique in light of the truth, this is a very sick minded evil man decieving and being deceived, so people like myself have no place in the church were we first turned to christ, as a result of their teaching. Such are the depths of seduction, the indignation and sense of wasted commitment we experience for seeking to defend the true gospel, being marginalised by the majority and branded as trouble makers in local churches. This teaching must be exposed at all cost, and it has cost me all
The He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" it seems there is a command that we are love God with our entire mind. I don't know of any commands that tell us to empty our minds and trust our feelings only.
You are right on about this! It doesn't matter who this offends, this needs to be heard! I was attached to Bethel for 19 years, I read the books, graduated from BSSM in 2004 and today I'm still working out the kinks of the brainwashing I was exposed to. This deception is so subtle and crafty. Bethel truly preaches a different gospel and it sounds so good and so right that people don't realize they are under a false doctrine! I made a major mistake through all this. I did not check with the scriptures to make sure that what I was being taught was the Word of God. I assumed that they knew what they were talking about and I trusted them. And one more thing I'll add, I also lost my faith because I wasn't seeing the miracles and breakthrough that was promised to me... Not promised by God, now that I see, but promised by the leaders at Bethel.
This is one thing I really thank atheists for bringing up, and that is "christianity is true because I experienced or felt it". How exactly can you discount other religions who say the exact same thing..."(name of any religion) is true because I experienced it or felt it...." truth has to have an objective solid base, or you can make up ANYTHING as truth. You have to know why you believe APART from experience. This also leads to many people who think God has left them because they dont "feel" his presence, despite his words that said "I will NEVER leave you or forsake you". I just LOVE your videos! We need more people like you. I am working on being one of them. Sadly there has been a lot of spiritual damage done and I am still learning the TRUTH apart from the many lies out here. So thank you. So VERY much for being this kind of voice in a world of extremes!
On Christ the solid rock I stand all other is sinking sand.
I did not know all this teaching by Bill Johnson and his cronies. Jesus Christ is my All in all. My repentance is to God, my forgiveness is from God. The cross of Christ is why I am a Christian. God's Word is inerrant Word of God for
correction, information, edification.
Amen! It was!
Amen!
Melissa...@58:08.., yes yes yes... "I look at scripture as authorative over my experience". You nailed it right there! I pray that for the people of Bethel.
Brian Simmons crossed a mile wide red line with the passion translation and His vision in heaven, with Jesus telling him about John 22 makes him sound like Joseph Smith.
House of Jubal I agree. It was really freaky. I thought about Joseph Smith as well.
House of Jubal i like how you say “mile wide red line” YES. This is the furthest thing from a grey area. So scary that people are not in the Word enough to immediately know to stay away. It should not even be a discussion when you hear Brian Simmons very public story.
The way these false teachers twist the meanings of the word of God brings to my mind Matthew 24:24, where Christ warns, "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect." Christians today (the elect) are in grave danger today of being deceived, and so many professing Christians are indeed deceived by these false teachings. All false teachings are against Christ (anti-Christ), but it makes me wonder if these teachings are preparing the way for the Antichrist.
The faith of Bill Johnson sounds like the Force in Star Wars. Don’t use your mind; use the force. Harnessing the thing that’s already there, the hero just has to be able to access and wield it strongly enough. Super interesting...
Good analogy
Amen! So totally agree.
They want you to turn off your brain so you can’t see the contradictions.
If Johnson’s teaching doesn’t help you to better understand faith, then I would advise not listen to him. But Mark 11:23 is true regardless.
First Last SW was developed to propitiate luciferian theology and doctrines in a way that it would be integrated into all people’s beliefs and world view. It’s why it was so easy for people to use the books/movies as material for discipleship. There is a danger in using secular material in the Church. It’s yeast in the dough.
I watched this when you first posted it and I’m watching it again. It’s that good!
Bethel students are coming to my church tomorrow and I’m actually scared. I’m only going cause I want to see it for myself. I actually got a weird feeling when the pastors wife said they were coming. Please pray for me and my church family.
God is not surprised they are coming, trust him and get your eyes on Jesus . God bless
Sister don’t walk in fear. Listen carefully and test what you hear. It’s a test for your pastoral leadership as well.
Yes please let us know how it went. We’re they looking to recruit new students?
So apparently it was these two guys from New York that have been to Bethel. Thank God it wasn’t students from bethel cause I would have been nervous the whole time.
Let us know how it went. A few of the members from my church are students at a bethel planted school of supernatural ministry in England. Scarry stuff
I've read 'The Physics of Heaven' and also have read two articles about 'crystals'! I have been shocked at the similarity between the two. Sad because Bill Johnson does come over as convincing, and I do have biblical knowledge, what is going to happen to people at Bethel who do not have thorough biblical teaching and do not have the will or the inclination to actually read the bible for themselves, but are simply going along with Bethel's teaching? I agree with Melissa here, this should never be about tearing Bill Johnson as a person apart, it should be about thoughtfully considering what, he or other teach.
She is very tactful in how she handles these issues and these wolves. You don’t have to shred the wolves to alert the flock, but people do need to warn the flock of the wolves
And if somebody is teaching the same doctrines as witches and new agers hold to, but cloaking it with a wooly mantle, they are a wolf.
I think people like to cherry pick the word, taking the verses that sound good to them and leaving the rest behind them. Thank you for rightly dividing the word of God ❤
Melissa - I am only halfway thru your video and it is outstanding. I appreciate all the hard work you've done on this. As I listen to you I am constantly admonishing myself to read my bible myself more! Thank you for your work.
Every time I eat Raisin Bran I will now think of this video. 😂 thanks for breaking down this book so thoroughly it’s really helpful.
"To focus on one aspect of God at the exclusion of all others, is the road to denominationalism & heresy," Karl Barth
Ed McInnis Thats deep.
Exactly
Say ¡NO! to the Passion Bible.
I felt peace when you said that you still believe in the gifts and miracles of the Lord! Thank you so kindly for helping bringing things to light. The Holy Spirit will guide us through the word of God and the more we seek Jesus in relationship the more we will know His voice. The true gospel of Jesus Christ.
don't care how long this video is, it's very insightful and sheds light in the issues of the NAR movement. thank you for this ministry! you're doing amazing things for people who are in the movements, exposing the darkness with Jesus' light!
Thank you for All your insight. My life has been a rollercoaster and now since my husband passed, I am so hurt with conviction I don't feel worthy. I pray for comfort and forgiveness. Thank you for your messages and views. I have been watching your videos for the last 2.5 hours. And joined you subscriptions. So onwards I go.
Excellent commentary. Ive never taken the time to study Bills theology in depth before but i have listened to sermons of his, only to find myself writhing with discomfort. This certainly helped me understand more broadly what Bill and Bethel teach and endorse. I absolutely love your emphasis on critical thinking. Being a believer does not require us to live our faith walk devoid of healthy criticism and appraisal. Thank you sister.
I love the graceful way Melissa is talking, even if she doesnt agree, she is graceful and not bashing, it is precious to see ❤
I wanna point out that what Bill is saying about Jesus is true, according the Word of God. It doesnt have anything to do with Jesus not being God.
There is a fundamental truth that alot of christians fail to see, and it clouds the view of themselves the way God sees us. It doesnt elevate man, it elevates Jesus that much more.
And i love how you keep saying we need to feed from the Word of God, is so true. And its so important to actually be in communion with Holy Spirit, and thank Him for revealing the Word to us through His eyes. We have to get the same perspective as He intended for us to receive it. Like reading the Bible with the Author Himself? How amazing is that?
The Spirit is the “guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it.” Ephesians 1:14. Seems clear that the “ultimate goal” can’t be the Spirit if the Spirit is just the temporary guarantee until we acquire the true goal, the inheritance, which Paul in Ephesians says is, “to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.” (1:10) We are united through Christ’s work on the cross, our salvation.
The Spirit of God in a person is itself the hope that a person has of a glorified existence, transitioning between terrestrial to celestial.
The Lord said to Abraham: "I am your shield, your very great reward."
The righteousness of God is revealed in His saints by His own spirit in them.
Thats my understanding.
Luke 17:21 in any translation says: "The kingdom of God is within you"
This was so appropriate for today. I have had a stirring that something wasn’t right but wasn’t aware of the full problem. It is important for us to gave the right tools to speak the truth (the Word) when meeting up with this group of believers/unbelievers.
TPT makes the Message look like a word for word translation.
They are both terrible The Message Bible has "Duality' in it. Not a book of God.
That's scary!!!
@@debbieloy5284but "God did not give us a spirit of fear, but the Spirit of power and of love and of a sound mind."
Wow!
This is one of the most refreshing messages I´ve heard in a long time! I pray that you will stay the course and that your mind will continuesly abide in the truth like it is now. God bless you and may His grace rest upon you and your family!
This was so very good
Thank you! I was involved in a charismatic church for 3 years. It wasn't heavily into this stuff but pushed toungs, healings, and especially prophecy (special personal revelation). If you questioned things they would tell you that you had a legalistic spirit or critical spirit or a pharisees. My husband really got into it even claiming he had a vision of the lead pastor (bishop) having an Apostolic calling and that.some how we may family) would be "pillars" of leadership in that church. He said we'd be "stoned in the fire place" or something like that. My parents starting pointing the bibl9err and reminding me of what I learned in seminary and what I learned in their household. We finally left, well, I forced us to leave. Refusing to go back. My sister and her husband and Go to BSSM in PA. I keep asking her questions but she only gets angry and refuses to answer them. I'm fearful for them because she k owns the truth both of them but continue to run head long into it all. Claiming that God will.protect them from deception.
Good for you girl!!! I Like the fact that you decided to look at this book with an open mind! Strangely I did so today as well - I wasn't looking forward to it but I went through it in half a day. I think it is pure word of faith which has roots in (as u say) New Thought and also Christian Science. But there are some interesting and wise statements in it. Bill Johnson is a clever man with gifting. He often uses straw man arguments and what I call "either or-ism". Either or-ism is you either believe word of faith and there MUST be signs and wonders (ie no option) or you are a cessationist. No in between ground, which of course is never true. There are plenty of believers who are not cessationists but who do not think we have to indulge in charismania. Often in this book he says that miracles have to be meaningful. However many of the manifestations he refers to do not have meaning - feathers that descend, gold dust, etc. This tells me that he wants to live in the supernatural, which has real dangers. This is because the supernatural isn't always good. St Paul was given tremendous insights (much of which he says was not to be revealed - see 2 Corinthians 12) and for that he had a heavy cost of infirmity. Where Bill Johnson is strong in this is book is as follows:-
"Religion" versus living Christianity:- I get this. This issue is covered on page 81 of "When Heaven Invades" - he talks about where Church has become rote, and lifeless, and pure tradition, where we do things we control and are well within our comfort zone. I like the way he uses the Church at Ephesus as an example of how (perhaps) heresy hunting can deplete your love for God. They are told they had lost their first love. I have wondered if there might be a connection between their approach and what happened to their "first love". on pg 91 he says that "Christianity is not a philosophy it is a relationship!" I would agree with that.
Like you say he stresses the familiar enemies of Word of Faith - poverty, physical healing. Yes it is dotted throughout but not really worked out. Word of Faith always has problems with the concept of prosperity. They confuse spiritual with physical and material prosperity. The classic scripture that is mangled is Isaiah 53 - By his stripes we are healed. This is redemption and acceptance with God and our sins blotted out. They say that it is also mandatory to be healed physically. See the awful bondage and confusion (and pain) this can cause people who do not get healed. Another thing you point out is that they have a very weak and passive God - He only responds to the activity of the Church. I could say loads more but you are right on it God bless you. And something else that occurred to me today after reading this book. Bill Johnson is trying to be a man of God. I don't think he is going the right way, and as u say he is highly critical of Bible students. You get the feeling he thinks it is time to put the Bible away as its an obstacle - see page 142 ("our present understanding of Scripture can only take us so far"). His defence of miracles is almost manic - "without miracles there can never be a full revelation of Jesus" (pg 126) Also pg 127 says "Miracles Help People Obey God" (But the parable of Lazarus & the rich man Luke 16:31 shows that this isn't always the case. Here the existing written word is stressed as the most reliable guide to life) I agree to with what u say that striving to make positive confessions and enough prayer enough faith etc etc makes God a sort of wishing well or charm or amulet to produce what I want. The strength of many highly charismatic and word of faith churches is their energy youth and zest. They are good at getting people into the kingdom. But they are not good at getting people mature, making people stick with it when it gets tough (eg the Book of Hebrews). Also de-contextualising scripture into small positive "gobbets" to make mantras is a real feature of this type of church. You notice something about these churches too - they never produce commentaries on scripture - the Bible is a tool for getting people what they want. As u say God is not for them an end in Himself. If He isn't handing out bread, or if He is giving out "hard sayings" today, they are off. But that was true then - he was left with the 12 - and it may well be true again today.
Lets pray for Bill and each other!!
Jesus will not always protect us from the consequences of our actions. That is a hard lesson to learn but it is one that we MUST learn !
I'm watching this video for a second and it's so great. Thank you so much for taking the time to dig deep into this book. It's interesting, the thing I'm really starting to see with this book and others like it, is that it's just so much work. It's always, "do all these things, and then God can use you to do all these things"
It's exhausting. I'm so grateful that over the last few years, God has opened my eyes to see what the Bible actually says so I can have better discernment and think critically about what I'm reading and listening to and to help others along the way. Thank you for your ministry Melissa!
Melissa, you've been my new favorite RUclips channel for a few weeks now. This particular video took me a few days to get through, simply because of time sake, but WOW it's been so informative and a GREAT listen. I'm so thankful for your research and sharing your experiences. Also how you show love to those you disagree with is so refreshing and defineitely who I am, thanks to God alone. This was just such a great video and critique! Love you sis! Looking forward to more videos
Wow, thank you for this review. Saving me from wasting time buying & reading it. Pray for him. He is leading so many astray.
I am plastering this video everywhere. People need to hear this. I absolutely love your breakdown and the humbleness of your heart as you do this. Thank you for what you do!!
Melissa at 1:15:22 to 1:16:20 is one of the best explanations why certain groups downplay scripture I’ve ever heard. You are on fire here 🔥
My old church taught this stuff. Now I understand the source: Bill Johnson. Not the Bible.
People want power but the problem is they're looking in the wrong place. The power is in the cross.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;...
(Romans 1:16)
The "it" is the "gospel of Christ" and that is where the "power" is.
Thanks for exposing error and standing for truth!
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 3:14)
It is so nice to know that I’m not in this journey alone. I found your videos at the absolute perfect time. My family keeps heading deeper and deeper into the NAR and I am the only one who now sees the issues with it. It breaks my heart and it’s so confusing for me, as this is what I was raised to believe and what my family still preaches. My cousins are pastors at one of the largest/well known NAR church in America.. how do I even navigate that?
Thank you for taking the time to look into this! It's a long video, but the time went by suoer quick! You make a lot of excellent points. I will be praying for Bethel's leaders and congregation. I really like how you break everything down Biblically and didn't attack, but lovingly pointed out issues. Great work!
SPOT ON! I love this book review! I was lying in bed unknowingly dying of toxic shock in Oct 2016. I didn't know anything about God/Jesus before God so mercifully revealed himself to me on that day. He unfolded numerous miracles very quickly, and He spared my life. Although I didn't know God before that moment, I KNEW with everything in me that He was my creator. He quickly led me to purchase my first ever bible and I couldn't get enough of reading the scriptures. God did use Bill Johnson, and many other Charismatics in my journey, but about 6 months back, God pulled me out of my NAR church, and revealed to me that I wasn't to "follow" in the Charismatic NAR footsteps. I have truly become a new creature in Christ, and am a completely different person than I was. I currently read my Bible every day (I'm still so hungry and read as much as I possibly can), and don't even go to church. I assume maybe God will plug me into another church eventually, but for those that try to judge me as "not a good Christian", because I don't go to church, is crazy to me. All I need is Jesus! I probably read my Bible much more than those that are judging me to be a bad Christian. I struggle to trust other's scripture interpretation, so I think its VITAL that I read all scripture FOR MYSELF. I don't need someone else to tell me what they think scripture means. All I need to do is read it for myself as led by the Holy Spirit. I think therein lies the biggest issue. If people read the Bible for themselves, they too would be led into all truth, and recognize other false teachings. Like you mention though, I don't think most of the charismatics intended to fall away from the scriptures. I think they got lost along the way. I believe Bill Johnson and so many others are sincere in their journeys. So although God blessed me with an incredible testimony/experience, God quickly led me to purchase a KJV bible, and He taught me through the scriptures what had happened to me (Born Again), the Holy Spirit pointed me to Jesus as my Savior, and then God gently revealed to me my sinful nature...and that's when I became remorseful for sinful lifestyle. It was Jesus living in me when I began to transform into a new creature. I also question those that yell at "lost" people to "Repent!" I didn't even know I was a wretch until AFTER God had mercy on me and saved me, and THEN God revealed to me that I was a wretch and I repented. Blind sinners can't recognize they are sinners. God reveals that. Personally, I share my testimony/experience, but I quickly share the gospel, because it's the gospel that saves...not experiences, etc. May God Bless you! Thank you for taking the time to compile this video.
Wow what a testimony ♥️
What a lovely testimony! I too was blessed to have an experience, and it brought to Christ and repentance. The simple gospel is all we need. I admit, I long for another encounter, and the refreshing from my Lord, But if is not from the one true Jesus, what’s the point?! I will be gently refreshed daily instead. Oh but that does require “work” gotta pick up the word and actually read it! Lol, that’s a lot to ask folks for these days!
As a Christian of 35 years and havng seen many 'voices' come and go, I'm so thankful for being at a place where l can focus on the simplicity of relationship with Jesus and link myself only with those that enhance that.. even if it's Bill Johnson.
Just to add one more point Melissa. As I carry on hearing your presentation you open up more and more things that I thought also were alarming. Almost no mention of the Cross till way over half way through. Teachers or ministers can be assessed not just by what they say but also by what they avoid saying. I agree too with what you said about that "salvation not the ultimate goal" - that statement should sadden us. It remains me of what the Lord said to the 70 returning from their mission who rejoiced that the spirits were subject to them. he said don't rejoice in this but in that your names are written in heaven (I paraphrase a bit). This is in Luke's gospel I think. You make a great point when "heaven" is sort of exalted over Jesus. Yes you put it very well. You're doing great I think. Yes yes yes reading and studying scripture DOES NOT make you a Pharisee. Remember that the Holy Spirit's (of whom Jesus made many predictions in John 13-17) role is to remind them of the things he said (part of which is the reason for the New Testament itself) and to glorify Him, to reveal the things of Him and to do nothing "of His own". The Spirit's role is to exalt Jesus.
Good point. If they never want to preach on the Cross of Christ, the very means of our redemption from sin, then you know they will be even less willing to teach that WE , too, must “take up our cross and walk”....we are weak in this life, and glorious in the next.
Oh gosh. Thank you SO much for taking the (long long long) time to read, study, share, review... this book! I wanted to share my discomfort with Bethel music being played at my church, and shared this with my spouse. He really wanted to know more about this Bill Johnson dude and what his heart and mind really are up to (bad, good, OK, no big deal, kinda a big deal, horrible..?? .etc!) and this is such a great reference I can send people to. I listened to it over 2 days; while doing food prep, then cleaning the kitchen, rooms, our cat, bathrooms, and then nursing my babe to sleep. haha! Made it work, really wanted to listen to this in its entirety. THANK YOU!
I agree, The Bible actually instructs a person to test "the spirits", and to search the scriptures diligently especially when attending teachings like this. Check out Acts 17:11
Great job on this! I’ve been trying to look the other way for a while and even changed churches but I see young people I know heading out to Redding to get “schooled” and they are bringing it back. It reminds me of the John Wimber / Vineyard teachings from and earlier time. In fact I pulled this from Bill’s website where he says; “My greatest breakthrough in ministry came after attending two conferences in 1987 put on by John Wimber.” It’s all about signs and wonders and the healing “I” get to do. And they are using the music to get the young ensnared. Rock and roll is no longer the devils music of choice.
Melissa - well done and with a right spirit. I first watched you on an interview with Mike Heiser, whom I greatly respect. Years ago (coming up on 47 years ago!) I came out of the occult, Aliester Crowley and that kind of stuff - I did have a very "supernatural" encounter but not the type described by the Bethel crowd. And I've been digging deep in the scriptures for all the years since that day and by the Lord's grace will continue to do so. I'm very engaged with a Calvary Chapel in Kent Washington and also with some very dear friends going deep into the Muslim world with the real gospel of the Kingdom which includes the deep, deep message of the Cross! Willing to lay down their lives... On another note, if you haven't read anything from Joel Richardson I would recommend him regarding eschatology. I personally know Joel, very down to earth, like you seem to be, very grounded in the Scriptures. May our gracious God continue to watch over us and keep us unto His Glorious appearing - in the interim let us labor hard as you are doing! Greg Parker
I've experienced these New Thought teaching first hand. I grew up in it. I felt like something was off but I didn't know any better. Now that I've seen this video it's beginning to make sense. Thank you Jesus for saving me! Thank you Melissa for your diligent work on this topic!
Excellent job at dissecting this book! Your presentation was grace-filled, loving, direct, and knowledgeable. Thank you for your hard work! Very helpful!
Thank you! 🤗❤️
I have been watching you the last few days and I wanted to say thank you for being so open and welcoming with the word!
So glad you did this study. I read that book years ago from a class i was taking at the foursquare church i had been attending. The book was very confusing for me. I am still trying to unlearn the errors i believed. Anyway thanks for putting this online.
I am so glad that someone has the guts to address this and call people out. Thank you. I thought like you that all Christians are good people and believe in the same thing, but now I see that that is not the truth. It is scary and heartbreaking to learn how 'bend out of shape' some people are. God bless and thank you for informing us about the negative vs the positive.
Well done....please keep doing these...my church and family are into this stuff and I wish more people would speak up.....thank you!!!!!
Amazing job. Thank you for doing these videos. I was once caught up in bethel teachings. I am fully convinced that I was still a true saved christian, but it created a ton of discontent in me. I am so glad to be free of all that nonsense.
Joel Splawn Yes! That’s it! It keeps one discontent! They focus on the supernatural, but there’s a lot of worldliness too, because it’s not enough about Jesus!!!!!
Melissa, all I can say is "Yes Girl!" 👏👏👏
I truly appreciate your hard work and loving manner of representing truth. A small group I'm apart of just started reading "The supernatural power of a transformed mind" By Bill Johnson. I've only read a few pages and I knew it did not sit well with my spirit. You've been able to articulate what's been stirring in my heart. I know feel better equipped to search the scriptures and "test the spirit" as I meet with my small group again. Thank you!
Oh my goodness. Iived under this for 7 years. It elevated getting a platform and that messed me up. It made me look for a 'mantle' inside the church when we are called to be lights in the world. So many other things. "Don't think too much." BRAIN BAD. WORD PLUS. Faith is EVERYTHING. Believing for things instead of asking God to provide for me according to HIS will. It caused me to be depressed and suicidal because I wasn't "platformed" and I wasn't healed. Thank God I got out. It was abuse. Praise the Lord for leading me back to the Word and not platform's and encounters.
Melissa, this was an excellent book review. Thank you so much for all the time and prep work that you put into this.
GIRL YES! This is such a thorough analysis. I am so thankful for this video. I watched the entire thing. It is mind-blowing how many people are aimlessly following him without evaluating anything! Also, Bethel Redding's most recent video (Nov 15th) literally goes to defend their stance & "movement" basically like Bill did in this book lol. Ugh keep it up girl. This is CRUCIAL for the body of Christ. We need to be aware. Let's pray for repentance.
Thanks for making this! I just shared it on FB and I'm watching it now. 📖⚔🙌✝️
Amazing presentation, Mellissa. I’m so encouraged seeing a young adult Christian so filled with biblical wisdom and intelligent analysis. I pray many people would hear this video and heed its well researched, loving message.
Well done, sister in Christ.
He’s a wolf it’s that simple , He causes confusion and GOD is not the author of confusion
True story
nothing in life is ever "that simple". And don't suppose biblical truth doesn't also "cause confusion" among Christians, since none of us understands in full.
The devil is working through him to misguide people
Thank you for being there. Unveiling how religion is changing and how to understand what the Lord wishes us to do. I picked up my Bible today and I'm reading James, to be followed by Galatians. :-)
WOW thank you for this study. I watched all 2.5 hrs, and am glad I did not choose to read this book that my brother gave me. My brother has absorbed this Signs and Wonders bit along with healings... he even studied and was ordained in a since (from a ministry in Idaho) to cast out demons (even casting demons out from Christians). I attended a church in Portland OR for 22 years that when I started had some good scholarly teachings, but in the late 90s devolved into Signs and Wonders. I could not stay there. I later attended an Emergent/Emerging church (until I realized how their higher intellectualism was really liberalism theology)... it is hard to find a good church to be a part of today. Thank you again for this study. It has helped me understand what I had seen develop in the churches around the late 90s that i just could not understand fully back then. God bless and keep pressing in. You will hear those precious words someday... Well done the good and faithful servant.
Thank u for sharing Ms. Dougherty! I've been listening to u and Doreen Virtues video's and I'm learning so much about what should be, meaning The Word!!! God bless u all!!!!🙏🙏🙏🙏
I watched every minute of this video. God bless you and your defense of the Gospel!
Glad it helped, praise God 🙏🙂
@@MelissaDougherty I have a sister and her husband (a self proclaimed prophet and close friend of Bill Johnson) who have gotten caught up in all of this nonsense. It breaks my heart. I am also perplexed about the number of churches who are singing all of the songs without any critical analysis of what these songs are saying and the doctrine that is behind them. I am a reformed theology pastor, but not a hater of continuationist theology. I am all about the Word of God being the authority. Please let me know if you have any recommended resources for helping people see the theological problems in Bethel. Also, please feel free to go to www.everydaydevotion.org. This is a daily verse by verse devotional I write. I am currently in the middle of Romans. Many blessings to you.
I realize it’s been a LONG time since you posted this video, but I can’t help but hope you’ll see my comment. I’ve read this book after being given it by Bill after he came to speak at a small ministry school I was in at the time he wrote it. While I don’t remember all that’s in it, I do remember walking away from his teachings with the understanding that it was not the job of people to make heaven manifest, but to be obedient to God through faith in a way that we partner with his sovereignty.
Later I heard him talk again of praying for healing for his father, who was not healed, but died. He talked of the ridicule he received by people who didn’t understand that it was never in his power to heal, but that it was always him just asking God to do His will. And he said something I’ve never forgotten, that suffering is a gift, because in it we can praise God, which is a gift no other created being can give to God: praise in suffering.
I don’t know if he teaches some new age stuff today or not, this was all over 15 years ago, but, I do think maybe some of the things he says in this book sound like new age when you come from that world, but that he maybe doesn’t mean it in the same way...?
In any case, I appreciate your perspective and your kindness when sharing it!
I do not trust anyone who say experience is more important than the word of God, and you shouldn't either.
I am amazed at how much of what Bill Johnson teaches that parallels New Thought that I was taught in Word Faith. When I began studying the New Age I saw many similarities to Word Faith, but New Age was very much mixed with occult practices. I barely see any daylight between Bill Johnson's Dominion Now Theology and Word Faith except that Word Faith never taught that we were going to bring the Kingdom of God to earth. Word Faith eschatology was, at least what I was taught in the 80s, rapture/tribulation/millennium. Very informative. Thank you Melissa.
One bible verse that kept at me everytime I believed insigns and wonders was:
"Lord, lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not cast out demons in your name? and do many miracles in your name?"
On that day I will say to them, "Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness, I never knew you".
THE KINGDOM ON EARTH DOES NOT COME UNTIL JESUS COMES TO RULE 1000YRS IN JERUSALEM WITH HIS SAINTS
The kingdom of God is here: Mark 1:14-15 NIV
After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. [15] 15 “The time has come ,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news !” seems Jesus believed that his coming was the inauguration of the kingdom of God. Granted, the kingdom is not here fully as it will be at Christ's return. Nonetheless, the kingdom is here and is being extended to the world by the Holy Spirit working in conjunction with the church.stream.org/gods-kingdom-already-not-yet/
Thanks Melissa. I can see this is so prevalent in the teachings of many churches.
I appreciate your taking the time to bring this to us.
I am very grateful to God for his written word that leads us to truth.
I would have been so frustrated while explaining these things! You handled it soo well, kudos to you for getting through the book and for working really hard on this video! I really appreciated it! God bless xo
Melissa, God have you this ministry don’t let anyone discouraged. I love listening to you
God bless you.
Esther, UK