Watch what he said at the end. Timestamps: 0:00 Did John Calvin actually teach limited atonement? 3:52 Does the Bible teach limited atonement? 12:46 Did God already determine who to save and what sins humans will commit?
Read the recent book "The Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism", by Ken Wilson, if you want to understand the origin of this man-made doctrine. Augustine was attempting to explain how infants could become the "elect" through water baptism. Since the child had not come to faith, it had to be based on the will of another. It could have nothing to do with the will of the child.
@@SpotterVideo Salvation is entirely based upon the Will of God, nothing else and no one else,man is dead in sin, if you don’t understand this, you understand nothing, God is Sovereign and in Him is No darkness at all. What the Bible says is entirely true try reading it instead of your own fallen opinion.
@@hasimhodzic9649 In the passage below the Apostle Paul said a person must "hear" the Gospel and "believe" the Gospel, and then be "sealed" with the Holy Spirit. Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Notice the word "faith" in the scripture below. Mat_9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour. Mat_9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you. Mat_15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Wow, how can someone believe this! IT got me teary eyed listening to this! the devil is a lie!!!!! I actually didn't know what calvin's believe pray for them to have that veil lifted
So , Sam and you believe God is a goofy God who does not have control of everything? That sounds irrational. Where then is the omnipotence of God YHWH then? -No bird feather goes down without your Father knows... is an Error to put God on human level of selfRighteoussness and polítical correctness, subject to Time. He knows everything even before the creation. Though evil happens ( by Adam and the Nahash) , it is part of the freewill process consequences , he knows before ( he is God but acts according His legal set). Any action out of His legal set would be an elimination of freewill and man Question : Do you believe evil is something out of control of God , or is part of his divine rightheouss plan of redemption as the only option to freewill ?
@@rcormonutube Try to make more sense. You are rambling. God can work his will and still allow his creations to have free will. By your own standards, he knows everything at all times through all possibilities. So he gives his creations free will so they can choose to worship him of their own free will. And since he can see all time and all possibilities throughout time he doesn't need to control everything the way you are portraying it. It's you. that is limiting God. We that know, that God gave us free will are the ones that believe God can do all things. Even while working around the free will choice that he gives us.
@rcormonutube The nonsense of calvanism The bible says God is all good, and there is no evil found within him But you have this goofy god who declares evil acts like rape, torture, incest murder, and etc Calvanism also violates euthyphros delimma The delimma goes like this Does God decide what is good? ^^ This says that the actions of goodness are arbitrary, thus making moral objectivity null Or Does God appeal to a higher standard of goodness? ^^ Meaning, God isn't all good because he is appealing to a standard outside himself The bible clearly answers this dilemma God is good Meaning God is the standard of good Now, let's switch up good and replace it with evil If God is all good, and your evil god decrees evil acts, then obviously he isn't all good Unless you want to go with, well whatever God decrees can't be evil because God says so ^^ Then you are stuck with an arbitrary standard of evil Meaning evil doesn't inherently exists We have a standard of good, and it is God According to calvanism The standard of evil is God God decrees evil malicious acts =good [according to you] Human doing evil acts is evil even though God made him do it [according to you] Goofy as hell And here is another thing to think about If God forced them to rape, murder, and steal, then it isn't their fault they are sinning because they are being CONTROLLED Talk about throwing personal responsibility out the window Don't blame me for raping you, blame God Logically speaking, calvanism is pure idiocy The name calvanism also suggest you are a pagan Branding yourself with the title of a man-made theological system created by a man named Calvin Let's not forget your God decreed babies are in hell 1 day old all the way to 9 months, doesn't matter, he decreed it, so the baby burns for its sins even before it was born and had the capability to sin What utter rubbish
What I really love is the way you cut through the BS and clear up the confusion. You could hear the way that guy didn't even believe what he was saying bbut had to say it anyway because Sam wouldn't let him off the hook. Wish I had that same clearity of thought.
Powerful, Glory to God! 💯☝🏾 God bless you, Sam. May God continue to bless and strengthen you as you continue to teach his Word. #faith #blessed #Godsglory
For God to decree before creation all the bad things that would happen in the future makes Him an UN-LOVING God. I don’t believe in that “god”. God has creates us because He is LOVE ITSELF but also has given us absolute FREEWILL because without it then it wouldn’t be Love at all.
From where do you take that human will doesn't exist in Calvinism? As always people that reject Calvinism have absolutely no clue of the thing they are supposedly against. Human will IS a part of God's decree, but naturally God's will is above the one of man, or are you instead supposing that the will of man should govern God's one? Because this is what you are adhering to. Would you leave your children in control of your household? And yet this is what you are literally saying that God is doing in His creation. It's totally absurd.
@@lavir74 i agree, the god they are forcing on Scripture is a little helpless god who is subject to his creation and has to bow down to the mighty WILL of man, I know my Scriptures a lot better than that, The God of The Bible is a Mighty God and He knows everything far far beyond knowledge for us, by The Size of His Holy Spirit He is far beyond the size of our universe because He is omnipresent, which makes Him limitless in size and yet in Revelation is One holding the Scroll sitting on The Throne of God, must be The Father and The Lamb turned up looking like He was slain, this is The Son. All Powerful All Power and He Loves us and has a purpose for everything that He Created. These people don’t know Him or understand His Word The Bible, so they have to make it fit their own narrative. I believe 100% in A Sovereign God. If He Created All This and wasn’t in Complete Control, that would be irresponsible. We know how to make a piece of Cake and we know how it will turn out and what flavour it will be depending on what ingredients we put in and cooking time and all the rest, but depending on how good we are, we can make mistakes but God is PERFECT and He doesn’t make mistakes and In Him is no darkness at all, just think, making this universe and everything in it was a peace of cake for Him. The free will doctrine is unbiblical because man is born in sin and everyone who sins is a slave to sin, we have a sin nature so we naturally sin. The Bible is full of this fact and examples of it.only God can set us free and it says, if the Son sets us free we will be free indeed, that is the only way anyone can be free because all have sinned and fallen short of The Glory of God. Grace is unmerited favour, unmerited means it has nothing to do with us, no faith no prayer no intellectual understanding no thought, nothing, everything is a Gift from God and this is just a very superficial understanding of God’s Plan. Much information is missed when people read their Bible and false doctrine is borne from ignorance. God Bless.
Excellent clip Jeremy 👍. How in the good name of The Lord could he have died only for the elect. What a depressing religion. Then what's the point 🤔. Glory to the father and the son and the holy spirit 🙏✝️✝️🙏
Sam, at one time I started to wonder why Martin Luther and Calvin being both reformers, the doctrine are different in both camps, when I read the Lutheran Confessions, the Book of Concord, I found the difference, how you interacted with the Calvinist gentleman, showed me things that I missed, in their teaching and glad I didn't pursue looking at it any further, not only there but with your interacting with Islam and JWs. God is using you mightally my friend.
He didn't show anything at all. It's difficult to interact with someone else when they don't give you the ability to form a response for more than 30 seconds, nor are you allowed to pose any questions or examples of your own, but that's what Sam is doing. If you really want to find out about Calvinism and be objective on the matter then you should instead study the actual reformers. Sam, btw, was a Calvinist too for more than a decade and he knows perfectly that many of the things he says are false but he has a personal vendetta against White and that's the only reason he "changed".
@@hasimhodzic9649 This is the story. Everything started when James White (that at the time was a sort of mentor and point of reference for Sam) invited Yasir Qadhi to speak about Islam at a Christian conference. Such a decision was naturally harshly criticized by many fellow Christians, including other Calvinists in the friends' circle of James, among which there was also Sam. However Sam, in typical fashion, didn't just criticize James' actions from Scriptural and/or ethical standpoint as the others did, but he instead started intermingling his rebukes with anger fueled rants. This didn't stand well with James that, on his part (given that he suffers himself with problems of ego), lashed out at Sam for his lack of control over his tongue and anger, while also revealing some personal issues in the life of Sam that were caused by the latter's emotional instabilities. This infuriated Sam even more, that by now was totally out of himself, posting countless raging rants against White full of personal insults and vulgar language, so much so that even his closest personal friends (as Anthony, David, Ken etc.) had to step in to rebuke him for such behavior, and Sam, naturally, didn't take this well at all. Meanwhile in his Facebook page there were many in the anti-reform side that instead incited Sam's rants, constantly telling him how great he was for what he was doing, fueling his ego to the outmost. So Sam started surrounding himself with these people while distancing himself more and more from his old friends and this coincided with the slowly, but steadily, change in his doctrinal stance too. Now that his friends were mostly Catholics and Eastern Orthodox and they constantly fueled his ego, he now "suddenly" became a full on provisionist that lashed out against Calvinism at every turn. Even his demeanor had now changed to what he is today, where his anger and lack of control over his tongue is seen as a sort of "apostolic" virtue. That's it. This is the story and that's why Sam has become a sort of pitiful case study in the apologetics realm of what unbridled ego can do to an individual.
@@lavir74 I know it’s been a while and I am only now reading this comment of yours, thanks for the information my brother, I sense that you and I are much the same and have similar ministries under the Lord. We both have to be careful and remain humble before our Father, I am holding you before our Father as I write this and I pray you do the same for me if you get a chance to read my reply to you. The verse that comes to my mind is this: Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. I wish to encourage you and I think after years of interest and study with the Leading of The Holy Spirit on the subject, that with everything we are seeing happening in the world, we might be going home this year and I have long come to believe in a Feast of Trumpets rescue Rapture for the Body of Christ. Feast of Trumpets should be about the 5ft of October and if I am correct there will be a sign in Heaven and I won’t be the only one who is saying it and it won’t be just a few watches on line but a whole lot of Christians around the world will believe it, the sign should be visible both day and night for a number of days from about October 2. God Bless My Brother 🌙👍✝️🙏 ps my biblical reference was from a KJV, don’t think that I am a KJB only believer because of it, it was the first one I was able to copy and paste.
Yes, God faves a free will since the beginning, if you read genesis chapter 2 and 3 you will understand it. When God told Adam not to eat from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, because He will die. There’s the condition the God orders to Adam. Also when you read the book Ezekiel 28, also God teach that Lucifer decided( Free Will) to corrupt himself because of his PRIDE, Iniquity was found in his heart. Jesus Christ told the Samaritan woman; Believe me woman; if you drink of these water. You’ll be thirsty again, but the one who drinks the water that I will give, never be thirsty again. John 4. See God states clearly that we are moral individuals with a FREE WILL. This is not Calvinism, nor Arminianism, IS GOD TEACHING US HIS CHARACTER.
@@kiwiburciaga He really ruined music for me which makes me not only feel bad for Satan. It makes me really sad that (Satan) a brother has fallen so far that not only have we lost a brother we lost somebody that could have taught us. Remember even Satan is a family member that lost his marbles and that we have to be sad we lost a brother in Christ. Lord Jesus hate what we have done in sin not us ourselves. It's actually great breaking that not so of us since I'm Christ can be together
“but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,” 1 Peter 3:15 ESV Sam, you have a wealth of knowledge and solid arguments, but you are not gentle and often don’t show respect. This video is a great example of that. I pray that you grow in these areas.
When I think of calvinism my heart literally breaks . 😢 it is a teaching from hell . It is a different gospel. I pray they repent before the return of the LORD .😢
The true gospel is the gospel of grace. This means that our salvation is entirely God's work, not a combination of our work and God's work. Romans 4, esp. v. 16, makes this point. The Bible never describes human salvation as a result of human "choice" (their faith, yes, but this is repeatedly attributed to God throughout Scripture). On the other hand, human salvation is attributed to God's choice repeatedly (e.g. 1 Cor 1:27 ff.). In fact, this is what "election" means: choice (God's choice of us, not the other way around). If humans had an inherent ability to choose faith and repentance, then their salvation wouldn't be entirely by grace, but partly by their works. But God chose faith as the means of salvation so that salvation would be entirely by grace (this is stated explicitly in Rom 4:16), and so that no one would boast before Him (1 Cor 1:29). "Calvinism" can go too far at times, and we should never trust a system of theology just because some trusted person or church taught it to us. But the same is true of trusting Sam Shamoun, just because his arguments make sense to us. He is arguing philosophically, not biblically. If we read the Bible for what it says, rather than what we want it to say, we will see that man's salvation is 100% the result of God's mercy. If we are trusting in men, then yes, we should repent. But trusting in the testimony of God's Word, which teaches that all glory goes to our gracious God for our salvation because we were incapable of choosing, is not something to repent from.
My takeaway is, nowhere in the Bible does it say you have to have read the Bible at all, be in a system, be in a church, be a theologian, know any scripture at all. The way to salvation is Jesus and you don't have to know anything. I don't know how a uncreated being made everything from nothing. I believe it and that's enough. Our minds cannot comprehend such a concept as just one dimension past length width and depth. We know it exists, but your mind cant understand how in the 5th dimension, there are no spheres. If you could see the 5th dimension you would see all spheres as a wave in space time. Remember theres no more length width depth or time. It exists but you and I cant make sense of that. Believe and be born again are the requirements period.
I was interested in Calvinism until I discovered that the Bible clearly shows God does not decree that anyone should sin. It's shocking how obvious this is if you read the scriptures with an honest intent to understand. Jeremiah 19:5 “They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, WHICH I COMMANDED NOT, NOR SPAKE IT, NEITHER CAME IT INTO MY MIND:" James 1:13 “Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:”
Of course it did. Did God know that He was going to block him? Or was He unaware? I seriously don't understand what the point even is. Is Sam now pretending that God doesn't know the future?
@@lavir74 Forcing someone to do something is entirely different than knowing they're going to do something. I know whenever I talk to a calvanist they're going to twist scripture, did I make them do it?
@@skecchi3201 Do you believe that Jesus' Crucifixion was decreed by God, do you? So was Jesus a puppet of the Father? God having a decree doesn't mean that God "forces" man to do anything. This is the typical strawman Arminians use because they really have nothing better. The orthodox view in Calvinism is compatibilism, where the human will and the will of God are both part of God's decree. The only difference between your view of God and the one that Calvinists have is that you believe that God watches passively His Creation (that's very similar to the view of a Deist), while Calvinists instead believe that God oversees over His Creation (think about a stream of water where you swim in; all your individual actions are yours but the current leads you in a certain direction; a very crude analogy but it's simple enough to understand). Your view of God is like a parent that leaves to his children full control of the household, expecting that all will go well. As a parent you would never do something so absurd but yet instead you expect God to do it. I guess that God was lucky enough that Noah was there at the time of the deluge elsewhere this world would have ended right there and all of God's plan about redemption would have been for nothing. I mean, if you believe such nonsense you can believe everything. And as for "twisting Scripture", I somehow beg to differ, given that over and over and over again it is repeated that God does what He does and He's Sovereign over His creation. I could quote you hundred of verses talking about this. Where are the verses that instead say that God leaves control of His Creation to His creatures? There's not even one.
@@lavir74 not reading any further as I'm no Armenian, and certainly not a calvanist, I'm a Christian. Sod the influence of the deceiver that divides people into their evil waring camps. However, how did God bring about everything in Genesis again? Ah yes, by decreeing it so. You might what to look into the definition of what "decree" means. Also, don't long wind something and immediately make it clear it's not in good faith, because anyone who respects their time won't bother reading it.
@@Kooch2004 Who would call on someone they don't believe in? If you call on him, you're asking Him to save you. So you believe that He can save you. If I'm drowning I'm not yelling for the guy that can"t swim. Lol
@@HiddenThingsofGod I was just clarifying the verbiage in the Greek for you. Because the way you have it worded seems to imply that anyone has the ability to believe, thus it is incumbent upon the individual. Whereas the Bible says that God’s love for the world was expressed by Him saving everyone who believes in His Son, making it incumbent on God.
God decreeing people to do evil things would mean that he is by nature evil as well. For God to decree someone to do evil would defeat the purpose of sin itself ( a consequence of free will ) and the sin you are pre-destined to commit would not really be your fault as you acted against your own free will. This would also defeat the purpose of Hell, for if God would throw you down in hell for the sins that you are pre-destined to do, then this defeats the attribute of God being a just judge. This is something Muslims believe themselves. The sixth pillar of Iman is Qadha and Qadar, pretty much pre-destination (let's not mention Allah's acts of deception in the Qur'an for example him sending a fake Jesus to die on the cross for example in 4:157).
God decreeing that people do evil things has nothing to do with God being the source of the evil. Man has his will and God has His and God's will is naturally above man's. This is what it's meant by God's decree. The only difference between Arminians and Calvinists concerning God's decree is just that Arminians believe that God is just a passive entity (and even this is not true because they have God actively decree things too in certain points, as for example the Crucifixion - since they cannot deny it as Scripture is pretty clear - hence turning God into an inconsistent being) while for Calvinists God is active in His creation, overseeing things.
Sam - So when God let Satan destroy Job’s property, kill his children, inflict him with sickness, etc. Could God have not permitted it? Of course! But he didn’t… why? If God is truly God then all that happens on earth is by His will. God poured out His wrath on His own innocent Son. And God is just in destroying every man woman and child on the earth.
i only heard that word but never realized what it is... it is not only unbiblical but also is very wicked and i don't know how a christian heart can believe in such a thing...
Ok, some questions for Sam Shamoun then: "Do you believe that God instructed Israelites to kill Canaanite babies? Do you believe that God decrees that unbelievers will spend an eternity in a place that is worse than any rape room? Do you believe that God has foreknowledge and therefore saw all the horrors you describe (and worse), and knew that most human beings throughout would not be saved (Luke 13:23 ff.), and yet created this reality anyway? What kind of horrific God do you believe in?" Sam Shamoun acts like he just caught this Calvinist in a moral quandary, as if he isn't caught in a different version of the same quandary. Denying God's sovereignty in human salvation doesn't solve the problem Sam is describing. If you believe God was willing to give people free will so that their love for Him could be genuine (this is stated absolutely nowhere in the Bible, by the way), then why did God willingly create this world where humanity has free will, all the while knowing that He would be morally bound to damn the great majority of them to eternal Hell? In this case, God desires the willing love of humans so much that He casts most of them into Hell. In other words, according to the mainstream view, God is willing to sacrifice most humans for the sake of His own goals and desires. The only difference between this view and Calvinism is that Calvinists claim God created everything for His glory, and such Arminians apparently believe God created everything so that He could be loved by (a minority of) humans. Sam pretends that he is attacking the God of Calvinism, but he's not. He's just attacking God in general, since his arguments can be used against the Arminian God just as easily as the Calvinist God. There are questions in life which cannot be answered with your big brain and your apologetic knowledge. There are things we don't understand, but pretending that the Bible doesn't constantly teach the sovereignty of God isn't the solution.
I don't think Sam is entirely fair here. How can arminians avoid the same conclusion as the calvinists? Did not God decree to *permit* the rape, according to Sam Shamoun?
I believe in Limited Atonement simply because this Atonement is limited ONLY to those who believes! Saying yes that God predetermines certain sinful acts has got nothing to do with calvinism. As God removes His restraint from man ... his sinful nature takes over. And sinful nature leads to certain acts. In the times of Moses God refers to this as "hardening of the heart" AND yes God chose His elect from even before the creation ... and yes ... God chosen people will be drawn by the Father towards His Son. I do believe that God can only be Sovereign in this regard if all of us has free will. What is the point of having this debating program Vs Non believers if you believe in Unlimited Atonement ... then Hell will be empty. Christ is the final and ONLY Atonement by which man can be saved. Christ is the final and ONLY Atonement by which the whole world can be saved. From this world towards the next He is the ONLY provision for all. But the only limitation is to believe. And the message of this salvation will be the same for everyone. There is no message for righteous people. So yes. GOD IS ABSOLUTELY SOVEREIGN AND MAN HAS ABSOLUTE FREE WILL. This is my understanding of some of the points of calvinism.
It's available to all unbelievers that includes us all as well, that now believe, so logically obviously technically honestly it is not limited at all.
Many thanks Sam for enlightening us on their views. Lessons learned: 1) w talking to a Calvinist make them explain their position verse by verse, 2) God's word is Supreme, not what anyone believes or thinks, etc. GB
@@Paul-zf8ob I don’t believe in a Christian calling one self a Calvinist only because I know my Bible and we are all one in Christ, that said I can recognise that those who do claim that they are Calvinist are not disqualified from being my brothers in Christ, I believe a day will come when you will most certainly regret what you have written in your comment because we will all one day face our Creator.
@@hasimhodzic9649 The Bible tells us to call out heresy! Nice try guilt tripping me! Jesus came for all mankind. Calvinists are great Christian’s but a little too judgmental!
Actually its James White who is afraid of debating Sam. White routinely refuses to debate opponents unless has enough control over the debate rules to prevent him from being exposed.
@@MasterKeyMagic That's silly. I've seen his debates and they are fair for both sides. Both sides get the same amount of time to make their case. So what you are saying doesn't even make sense.
Matthew 25 - separation of the entire human race into sheep and goats. Sheep are blessed by the father and go into Heaven. Goats are cursed and go to Hell. John 10 - Jesus says he lays down his life for the sheep. If you say He died for everyone, you’re saying He died for goats. I’m going to believe the one who is doing the atonement rather than man.
Jesus Christ IS still performing miracles today, I know from personal experience, I have felt the lord Jesus Christ right by my side and the power of the holy spirit.. Jesus is still healing people, prophecy is still happening today, it has not stopped.and anointing people today. Father son and holy spirit, 3 in 1 person, yet working independently. Jesus Christ died for everyone not just a elect few. We are all born into sin, until we Repent of our sins and give our lives to Jesus Christ. We are saved by grace not by works.
I wouldn’t say independently but rather working in perfect union who are distinct from each other. To say they are working independently is to say they have their own will rather they “the persons” are in perfect union
Brian; angels don’t have BLOOD AND FLESH LIKE HUMANS. 1 Corinthians 15. Says that BLOOD AND FLESH CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM. There are No redemption for Satan and the Fallen angels, because they SAW GOD IN THE TRINITY ESSENCE. That’s is why we are ( humans, Christians) going to judge them.
Wow Sam strawmanned the heck out of Total Depravity and the total corrupting effect sin has on men who are the morally responsible image bearers. This addresses his question of did God decree the "assault of a child". The answer is no. The armenian and the calvinist would both agree that God COULD stop it, but He doesn't yet according to the counsel of His will. Sam is strawmanning a position that is a distinction without a difference.
@@nathan010810 Basically, RevelatingDemarchist is pointing out that Sam's denial of God's ordination of all things doesn't eliminate the problem. In other words, a person who says that God ordains everything that happens may have a hard time explaining how God isn't therefore responsible for evil. But Sam has the same problem, since even if God didn't ORDAIN evil He still allows it. Why doesn't God step in and stop it if He could? The answer that is typically given to this question is that God allows evil because otherwise He would be denying free will, and without free-will our love for God is not genuine. But please note that there is nowhere in the Bible that makes this argument. In fact, there is nowhere in the Bible that even mentions free-will. This is merely a philosophical concept created by man. Does man choose? Of course. Is his will free? Man's will is only free within the limits of our nature. But since our nature is fallen, it does not allow us to repent and believe. Thus, God must intervene in order for us to believe. To get back to the original point, though, consider this question: Even if God does not ordain evil things to happen, He still has foreknowledge of everything, doesn't He? If so, then He knew all the evil things that would happen if He created the world, and yet He created it anyway. He knew that most of humanity would end up in Hell (see Luke 13:23), and created the world anyway. So isn't God responsible for the eternal, abject misery of most human beings. These are very hard questions. Part of our situation as finite human beings is that we are dependent on God to help us trust Him, and have faith in His goodness, even when such questions make us doubt. There are no sufficient answers to some of these questions that we are capable of understanding at this point. But we can look to the cross of Christ, and see God's Son, sent by God Himself to die for us. This is a God we can trust, even if we can't make sense of some of life's most difficult questions. God Himself is the answer we need, not merely an intellectual answer.
@@TimWismer "Basically, RevelatingDemarchist is pointing out that Sam's denial of God's ordination of all things doesn't eliminate the problem. In other words, a person who says that God ordains everything that happens may have a hard time explaining how God isn't therefore responsible for evil. But Sam has the same problem, since even if God didn't ORDAIN evil He still allows it. Why doesn't God step in and stop it if He could?" Brother, I am gonna step away from what Sam said and first just deal with what many Calvinists claim is true - that there is no effective difference between ordaining/decreeing evil and allowing it. Now I do not find the differences between the two to be as huge as what I thought that once were, but I do think that there is a difference. Decreeing is actually causing in the sense of bringing to bear. I know of few Calvinists who actually believe that God causes evil directly, and those that do, like Sonny Hernandez and - shudder - Juan Camara, I believe are mentally ill - and I am not joking. No, most that I know simply think that God, in his foreknowlege allows the result of corrupt human nature to play its course because He will glorify Himself to His elect in the end by exacting His justice on the reprobate for their sins. I think that allowing in that sense fits with the Calvinist system quite well. The Arminian (and perhaps provisionist) view that I have seen is that God forbears - not allows - the evil in that he knows it is coming but suffers it in the foreknowlege that His plan can work with and around it to come to fruiton. The key point here is that ALLOW and FOREBEAR are not the same, the nuance being that the latter shows deliberate restraint. He could intervene but He won't because He can work bring His plan to fruition without interfering with free will, if that exists (whether it does or not is not my point here). Now I perscibe to neither system, but do find forebearance more like a loving God. "The answer that is typically given to this question is that God allows evil because otherwise He would be denying free will, and without free-will our love for God is not genuine. But please note that there is nowhere in the Bible that makes this argument. In fact, there is nowhere in the Bible that even mentions free-will. This is merely a philosophical concept created by man. Does man choose? Of course. Is his will free? Man's will is only free within the limits of our nature. But since our nature is fallen, it does not allow us to repent and believe. Thus, God must intervene in order for us to believe." Here you are assuming Sola Scriptura, and not everyone is a protestant. I am Eastern Orthodox and see scripture as prima not sola. But scripture is not all there is. Tradition and reason come into this too. Protestants don't just get to claim that reason is merely a human idea when reason is used when looking for the most reasonable interpretation of scripture. In fact, I do not think it wrong to say that reason works with tradition to guide reliable interpretations of scripture. A huge number of protestant denominations arises from varying interpretations within protestantism, and not all can be correct. One will have to do better with a non-Protestant than claiming that "it's not in the bible so ignore it". The bible does not mention free will? If it does not, so what? And is that strictly the case anyway? The bible tells us to obey - an empty command if we cannot anyway - at least until God activates us to elect mode. The everyday experience says free will is the case at least to some extent, even if it is merely the compatibilist version that I accept myself. Man is only free within his nature? I agree, but that is still a form of free will and you cannot simply assume Total Depravity is our nature and that we will never choose God. That might work with your particular part of the congragation but not with Eastern Orthodox. "To get back to the original point, though, consider this question: Even if God does not ordain evil things to happen, He still has foreknowledge of everything, doesn't He? If so, then He knew all the evil things that would happen if He created the world, and yet He created it anyway. He knew that most of humanity would end up in Hell (see Luke 13:23), and created the world anyway. So isn't God responsible for the eternal, abject misery of most human beings." That gets to the thorny question of whether foreknowledge equates with causation. If God pushes a ball downhill, knowing how gravity works and knowing that when said ball hits bumps X, Y, and Z, that it will alter its trajectory in directions X1, Y1, and Z1, does the then directly cause every aspects the balls journey. And if further alterations in trajectory occur way down the hill in directions X100, Y100, and Z11, then did God directly cause those? Does the sequential distance of any alteration from the initial push matter? No, probably not, and as God placed all affecting factors in their places, then we can say that God causes it all. But, and this is a big but, none of the elements here have any agency of their own. God is the only agent involved. Now the question is whether God is able to create a mind capable of autonomous agency. Some, like the aforementioned Juan Camara so absolutely not. Moving forward, I try to imagine whether God can create a machine that generates random numbers. Is that possible? Well machines made by humans generate numbers that seem random enough. Is one to argue that they only appear random to us but are determined by God. Why would God need to do that? And what places more of a limitation on God - the inability to create a machine that generates random numbers or random numbers being outside His control? And how does this work with human beings having thoughts and making decisions of their own, whether or not those thoughs and ideas are constrained by nature? A better question is whether decisions are considered free when a person is able to choose between two or more options, or are the choices merely illusory? And how does that answer fit with the everyday experience. I offer no answer here because I have none, but I cannot help be see one more befitting of a God of love. "These are very hard questions. Part of our situation as finite human beings is that we are dependent on God to help us trust Him, and have faith in His goodness, even when such questions make us doubt. There are no sufficient answers to some of these questions that we are capable of understanding at this point. But we can look to the cross of Christ, and see God's Son, sent by God Himself to die for us. This is a God we can trust, even if we can't make sense of some of life's most difficult questions. God Himself is the answer we need, not merely an intellectual answer." Indeed those are hard questions, friend, but Calvinism played to its logical conclusions and operating only withing its own logical matrix offers no answers at all. In Calvinism, you believe, so you have been saved by God through His Son dying for your sins, and if you are saved, you are secure, and if you are secure, you are going to heaven. Except if you stop believing, and if that happens - which it often does, your faith was all an illusion and your were never saved to begin with. Calvinism has substance only while you are in the system and with others of like mind, and so long as you question nothing except other theological systems. You can truthfully never be sure you are saved. I wish no offense, but I cannot see why Calvinists can be so sure of their beliefs in the face of widespread apostasy.
@@nathan010810 Nathan: Wow, that is a lot! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'll like to respond to some of them, but don't have the time to do so thoughtfully right now. I'll try to respond in the next day or two.
@@TimWismer No problems mate. And I hope my problems with Calvinism don’t come across as personally directed to you. I was vitriolic for the longest time. You could have called me a cage-stage anti-Calvinist. But while I still find the system to have all sorts of problems and indeed find some of them with the whole of Protestantism, I cannot dismiss the sincerity of the beliefs even if I do find that some beliefs sap the ordinary meanings out of certain words (all, love, world, good, evil). And I’m not gonna pretend to know the answers. In fact I’m ok to not know. Blessings anyway, and I’ll promise to be brotherly with you.
6:17 I thought you might know that is referring to the common grace. The possibility that everyone, no one excluded, in the work of CHRIST is in peace with GOD. Because in the wrath Jesus beard, GOD was pleased and pacified. As a pastor I love, Sugel Michelén says, GOD is Sovereign we are responsible. When Whitefield (calvinist) was asked about in which part of hell should Wesley (arminian) be, he told to his students ; we will not even see his (Wesley) face from the brightness of his glory so close he will be to GOD. You, Sam, are damaging the faith. Your own and the others and are doing exactly what you are telling the people to be aware of, you are making your own cult with your own cultist.
When people break it down like this, when Calvinism is exposed fully like this..... .... it definitely proves how wicked that belief is. They are clearly, boldly saying God is the author of extreme wickedness and sin. It makes the Devil the hero but only slightly. Only by about 1%. And that is so scary. I'm glad we have reliable, infallible, preserved scriptures to refute that wickedness.
The Scripture does not refute the fact that God is the sole author of our salvation -- it teaches it (Heb 12:2). It teaches that we are dead in our transgressions and sins (Eph 2:1-2), because we are born into Adam (Rom 5:12 ff.), and that God must speak light into our hearts (2 Cor 4:6) in order for us to be saved, because the god of this age, Satan, has blinded the minds of unbelievers (2 Cor 4:4), such that the gospel is veiled to them so they cannot understand it (2 Cor 4:3). Since humans are born in such a state, they are objects of God's wrath by their very nature (Eph 2:3). These are some of the Scriptures which refute the humanistic idea of "free-will", the idea that we have the ability to choose God in our natural state. But we don't, because we are slaves to sin (Rom 6:6), and therefore God must intervene and redeem us (the idea of buying us out of our slavery to sin). Put another way, we believers were "delivered from the dominion of darkness and transferred into the kingdom of the Son of His love" (Col 1:13). It is God who delivers, not we who deliver ourselves. It is God who redeems, not we who redeem ourselves. It is God who chooses us (1 Cor 1:27 ff.), not we who choose God (consider 1 Jn 4:19). Sam suggests in this video that this Calvinist doesn't have a great answer to the seeming implications of his theology -- specifically, that he can't explain how God can ordain evil and yet not be responsible for evil. But Sam doesn't admit that he is in a similar position. After all, most people throughout history reject Christ and thus are not saved (see Luke 13:23 ff.). Since they are not saved, they will receive the wrath of God in hell (2 Thes 1:9). And of course, since God has foreknowledge He knew this would be the case, and yet He created the world anyways. So He clearly had some priority for creating the world other than His love for human beings, since most of humanity will spend eternity with no experience of God's love, but only His wrath. Yet He created this world anyway. So how is He not responsible for creating this world full of sin and evil, when He saw ahead of time that it would be this way, and created it anyways? Sam can say that God works all things together for good after the fact (his interpretation of Rom 8:28), but this only applies to believers. Most of humanity does not receive good from God, but wrath. Sam's attack in this video was not, therefore, an attack on Calvinism. It was an attack on the goodness of God in general, and Sam provides no answer to it. There are things we cannot understand because we are finite. This doesn't necessitate that we reject the clear teaching of Scripture regarding God's grace in salvation. Rather, by faith we trust in the goodness of the God who has brought us into relationship with Him through His Son, by grace. I would like to see Sam treat this brother with some of that grace, rather than treating him so disrespectfully.
@TimWismer - None of your scriptures refute free will. Just because God made DNA doesn't mean we don't have choices. Just because God made gravity and magnetism doesn't mean we don't have choices. God made everything including our ability to choose. God made the plan of salvation including our ability to choose it. God would not command us to choose if we could not choose. It makes no sense. If the children of the kingdom in the Old Testament were told to choose in Deut 28 then we can choose. If God put all of mankind in His plan of salvation then that is how He did it. God's Word clearly tells us "it is NOT His will that any are lost" but yet we know some are. That does not void His sovereignty. We are saved or condemned by His Word. Either way, His will is accomplished. If the only place a person can be saved is the place of grace, submission, then that place is determined by His will, His Word. That solidifies His plan, not destroys it. That magnifies His Word, not diminishes it. If God made everything..... He made the ability for us to choose. Your comment suggests nonsense. It's like saying horse flies negate sunlight. Neither subject even need be aware of the other to be independently fully functioning. The plan continues without pause. God did choose us and We can choose Him. Even when we do not choose Him, He still chose us in His plan. Mt 24 Jesus said "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that kill the prophets, How I would have gathered you like a hen that gathers her chics under her wings. But you would not...." Jn 1 "He came unto His own but His own received Him not." The entire Word of God, cover to cover, destroys Calvinism. None of it supports Calvinism.
@@redfaux74 I agree with some of what you are saying. God's Word is clear that He wants all people to be saved, as you cited. But we also have examples in the Bible of God wanting people NOT to repent. Take Eli's two wicked sons, for example. Eli rebuked them but the Scripture says they couldn't receive the rebuke because it was God's desire to put them to death (1 Sam 2:25). Did God want them to be saved? Most of the people I see commenting on videos like this and saying that Calvinism is obviously unbiblical are arguing based on their inability to understand how the Bible could affirm one thing, and also affirm something else which seems contradictory. But the real question should be, "does the Bible affirm both?" The Bible does say that God desires all to be saved, but it also says that nobody is capable of turning to God apart from His gracious intervention. If we are dead in sin (Eph 2:2), then we are incapable of responding to the call. If our minds have been blinded (2 Cor 4:4), then we cannot understand the gospel. If we are objects of wrath by our very nature (Eph 2:3), then we cannot change that nature. And if no one seeks God (Rom 3:11), then no one will choose Him. If the Bible affirms two supposedly contradictory things, then we need to affirm both, even if we cannot understand how both can be true. Both Calvinists and Arminians tend to pick one side or the other, and then ignore Scriptures that challenge their beliefs. But we shouldn't be surprised at our inability to fully comprehend God. Just because we can't understand how what He says is true, doesn't mean we have the right to reject it. Additionally, I think that you don't understand what free-will actually means. This isn't your fault, since many people misuse the term. The term means that the human will is free from outside influence. The reality of the human will is that it is NOT free, but is rather a slave to fallen human nature. This is the basic problem, and both the problem and solution are laid out in Romans 6, which says in verses 17-18: "But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness." Before salvation, a person is a slave to sin. In other words, they cannot choose against sin, and therefore they cannot choose God. They cannot do anything good (Rom 3:12), they cannot please God in any way (Rom 8:7-8), and they do not seek Him (Rom 3:11). This is all the result of being born in sin because they are descended from Adam (Rom 5:12). This is why verse 17 starts by praising God, because God alone is responsible for Paul's believing audience being "set free from sin", and being made "slaves to righteousness." One last point. You said that when God tells the Israelites to choose in Deut 28, this indicates that they have the ability to choose. This is a reasonable conclusion, but biblically it is wrong. Joshua, for instance, tells the Israelites to choose who they will serve. When they say they will serve YHWH, he responds, "You are not able to serve the LORD, for He is a Holy God. He is a jealous God. He will not forgive your transgressions or your sins" (Josh 24:19). He tells them to choose, and then tells them they are incapable of doing what they choose to do. Similarly, God gave the Law to Israel. By your logic, they must have been capable of following it, since God gave it to them and told them to do it. But the New Testament affirms in multiple places that nobody was capable of keeping the Law (e.g. John 7:19). So why would God tell them to do something they were incapable of? In order to reveal to them their inability to do what God requires. "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the Law. Rather, through the law we become conscious of sin" (Rom 3:20; note that Rom 7:7 ff. explains this also). The point of giving them the Law wasn't so that they could keep it, but so that they could "choose" to keep it, and then fail repeatedly so they would understand their inability, and cry out for God's mercy (see Luke 18:13-14). God commands us, and requires us, to do things which we are incapable of doing. The Old Testament law is an example of this, and so is God's command to believe on Him. But can't we believe in God on our own? No. The New Testament tells us repeatedly that the faith which God requires is not merely belief in His existence (see James 2:19), but is a belief which is given to us by God by grace (Heb 12:2; Rom 4:16; Phil 1:29; James 2:5; Eph 2:8-9; Acts 18:27). You said previously that the Scriptures I cited don't disprove free-will, so I have shown that the Scripture teaches our inability to seek God, and the necessity for God to give us the thing He requires -- saving faith. On the other hand, there are no verses in the Bible which speak of free-will (except in KJV, where the term simply means "voluntary"). There are no verses which describe our free-will. There are no verses which attribute our salvation to our choice. We can only make choices according to our nature, and the Bible makes it clear that our nature makes us incapable of choosing God. The philosophical concept of free-will is merely man's attempt to make sense of difficult teachings in the Bible. But it is safer to affirm what the Bible teaches, even if it doesn't make sense to us, than to reject it because we can't understand how it could be true. "Let God be true and every man a liar" (Rom 3:4).
@@TimWismer I basically mostly agree with you and what you said but I just caution you a little because I detect a little error and I am not going into every point but you talk about many going to Hell and only few being saved. I believe the this is a gross misunderstanding of Scripture because of a verse Matthew 7:13. I don’t believe that it means what you think it means because of other verses like Genesis 15:5. You can take words and verses and chapters and books of the Bible out of context because the Bible is 66 Books and they do not under any circumstance contradict the rest of the Bible. You have more prayerful studying to do and you will gain greater understanding and you will be better equipped to defend its contents, I think you are doing a reasonable job with the understanding you have but don’t neglect your Bible study please. Abraham was promised descendants as countless as the stars but if you don’t recognise that the human race is not only made up of Adam’s offspring but also Satan’s offspring, your understanding of the Bible will suffer in ignorance, please consider very carefully what Jesus is saying John 8:42-47. Okay. I don’t call myself a Calvinist and I believe I have good reason not to, I believe every Word that comes from The Mouth of God and I believe that people who call themselves Calvinist are my brothers in Christ, my reasons are not the subject of the comment. God continue to Bless you. Believing the Bible doesn’t make you a Calvinist, it makes you a Christian, Calvinist was j one of a countless number.
Sad...calvinists are so caught up with this Calvin heretic. It's so simple...the atonement is universal...but your must BELIEVE to appropriate it. Jesus said "All manner of sin will be forgiven men EXCEPT FOR the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". All sin is forgiven except for the rejection of Jesus. The Spirit is convicting the world of their great sin, the rejection of Jesus as savior and Lord.
So the atonement is universal and it is up to man's choice, ok. Let me ask you this then: do all men have the same exact opportunities to hear the Gospel and to accept Jesus? Did for example the Native Americans in the First Century had the same opportunities to believe in Jesus as the Gentiles in Galilea/North Africa (and then Europe) had? If you say yes then you are a fool and if you say no (as it's obvious) then the question arises spontaneously: who put the Native Americans there and who put the individuals in Galilea instead? Even more broadly speaking who's the One that creates you as you are, with the hearth and mind that you have? And how exactly does God give the same exact opportunity to choose Him or not (because elsewhere it wouldn't be "fair", would it?) given that the context is obviously not the same for every individual? See, if you actually employ a little of logical thinking instead of the usual emotional diatribe is pretty easy to understand why the concept of a universal atonement doesn't actually work unless you are some sort of open theist. That's why, btw, Molinism was created, to find a philosophical answer to such issues but the problem is that Molinism creates even higher problems of its own, the main one being that the "dealer of the cards" is not anymore God but something else that nobody knows who or what it is, hence making God a subsidiary of His own Creation.
@@lavir74It is implied through scripture that you are to be judged based on what you know. If you happened to be someone that was born where they happened to not hear about christ, he will be judged based on the moral law that was written on his heart. God meets people where they are at because he is all loving and merciful.
@@a.n.1102 Really? So are you an universalist, that thinks that a belief in Jesus is not necessary? I would really like you to justify such a stance from Scripture, because you cannot, as you cannot even remotely live a "moral life" that is sufficient to save yourself (if you think you can then you really don't know your hearth because the Spirit isn't working inside yourself). If you could be righteous by yourself then the death of Jesus would have been completely unnecessary, don't you think? *Nobody* is good but God and nobody can fulfill the law so as to be found righteous in front of a Holy God, nobody (in fact, nobody can even follow the Law of God without God Himself regenerating the hearth). I'm sorry to tell you this bluntly but I don't think you even understand the Christian message and why Jesus had to die. It's patently obvious that you don't understand that man is dead in sin and what that means. Here, some Scripture for you on the matter: _“None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; _*_no one does good, not even one._*_ ”_ Romans 3:11-12 _"We have all become like one who is unclean,and _*_all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment._*_ We all fade like a leaf,and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away."_ Isaiah 64:6 _"And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil."_ John 3:19 _"For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God 's law; indeed, it cannot."_ Romans 8:7 I could go on all day quoting verses on man's depravity, especially from Romans. And YHVH is not just a God of Love, He is also a God of Justice and Wrath, and, above all an Holy God, and holiness cannot cohabit with unrighteousness and evil.
@@a.n.1102 Btw that's why universal atonement makes absolutely no sense if the intent is just to remove God from having any part in who gets saved, since the variables are not the same for every individual and God is the one in control of those variables, making the "free will choice" point completely moot when you actually take some time to really and seriously ponder on the matter. Molinism was created appositely to counteract this but the huge problem of Molinism is that then God is not the one in control of His creation, but He just works with the cards that He has been dealt with, so to speak. Not only that's not the God of Scripture but the real God now becomes casualty under a semi-naturalistic doctrine created by philosophers.
@@lavir74 universalism is satanic. I believe that God meets people where they are at. For example there is one passage where Jesus says that the people who proclaim to have the truth and teach will be more accountable on the day of judgment this means if you have the knowlege and you are researched, you are accountable for the misleading you do but if you are unknowing of God but you are a genuine person at heart who follows the holy spirit within, even if you don't directly know the scriptures, you are going to heaven although not because of your works.
If this is accurate... how can a person with a calvinist believe get mad at anyone? " The person had no choice, God decreed it for them, and they could not fight it! "
Calvinists don't believe that people have no choice. They believe that people's choices are based on their nature, and that their nature is such that they are slaves to sin (Rom 6:6). They also believe that unbelievers are spiritually dead (2:1), and therefore cannot choose God (see also Rom 8:7-8). Calvinists reject "free will" as something which is never taught in the Bible, but this doesn't mean they reject choice, it just means they reject the idea that you can choose to do something that is contrary to your nature. A person can choose to run, for instance, but he cannot choose to fly (apart from creating a machine). He cannot fly he doesn't have a nature which enables flight. A bird, on the other hand, can choose to fly, but it cannot choose to write poetry. It's nature doesn't allow it. Human beings are born with a sinful nature which they inherited from their first father, Adam (see Rom 5:12-19). This nature makes it impossible for them to choose God, because they are dead in sin. They are free to do many things, but in order to be saved, God must first change their nature (see 2 Cor 4:6). He does this by grace alone (Rom 4:16), because if it was based on their own choice, they could boast before Him. Therefore their salvation is based on God's choice, not theirs (see 1 Cor 1:27-29).
@@TimWismer Thank you for the response. Ome question I have is regarding how Calvinist say everything is ordain by God. I'm litterally listening to a debate right now between Redeem Zoomer ( Calvinist) and Leighton Flowers. And Redeemed Zoomers not only says all your decisions pre ordained by God but you can't go against it. Is he incorrect?
Everyone believes that the atonement of Christ is limited. Otherwise, all people would be in heaven. Therefore the argument is really, who limits the atonement of Christ? Is it man or is it God?
Sam rejects once saved always saved, so he is at least a one point calvinist, he believes in the Perseverance of the Saints to maintain good works to pay the rent on his salvation.
@@MrShoelessjoej but Sam asked the guy whether or not Isis could change their mind about raping, etc. and the ‘Calvinist’ said no, not if God ordained it. That would imply they had no free will. If they did have free will, they could change their mind about doing evil.
@@reformer-tg8hk First it's important to understand this. The book of Acts is a transitional book that shows the moving of the method of salvation from the Old Testament way to the New Testament method. So after Jesus died and the new way of salvation had been established they went to hell because they did not accept the "free gift" of salvation that Jesus offers that is paid for by his death/blood.
17:43 I’m not sure how you can be so disingenuous and then accuse him of tap dancing and running. Just because you’re right about a topic doesn’t mean you should treat the one who’s wrong on it like less than dirt
The thing is he is not right and his attitude should tell you that without me going into every other reason from Scripture, I have written other comments if you want to take a look, but a comment would have to be very long and have a lot of Biblical references to do the subject justice. GB.
@@swu11 no he wasn’t, he was using that as an excuse for his actions and placating to his audience. Even if that was the point, he has no excuse to do that: “If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a ringing brass gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and I know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I parcel out all my possessions, and if I hand over my body in order that I will be burned, but do not have love, it benefits me nothing… And now these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.” 1 Corinthians 13:1-3, 13
The word many comes from the Greek word poloos, which does NOT mean the whole world. It means abundant or much. Sam closes his eyes to the truth. In Colossians 1:18, the reconciliation is not for the entire world. The latter is a false doctrine called universalism. It is the Church (the all things) that is reconciled. A person cannot believe since each is dead in trespasses and sin until the Spirit of God makes them alive (Ephesians 2:1). Spiritually dead people cannot believe. Faith is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-10). A dead person cannot generate belief in Christ. Belief is given freely as a gift. If you boost and say, "I believe in my own ability," then you have work. The elect are predestined before the foundation of the world to believe in and by the will of God. Romans 9:11-24 discusses God's sovereignty in choosing vessels of mercy and wrath. Yes, God predestined reprobates. "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (affliction, bad, calamity, hurt, harm): I, the Lord, do all these things" (Isaiah 45:7). Sam, you are a very rude, controlling person.
The reason there is a debate over Calvinism and Arminianism is that there are scriptures supporting both.Lets face it,systematic theology has loose ends.Calvinism actually has a stronger case but the so called free will scriptures are also in there.Im about 70% Calvinistic and 30% I don’t know.I just don’t believe we can answer it all and I’m ok with that.A well read so called Reformer would give Sam headaches if he wouldn’t block him beforehand.Sam impresses people who actually are not familiar with ALL scripture,I was a Calvinist for many years but after going through the Bible slowly I realized none of us are going to be able to put God in a box(systematic theology)and figure it all out.But I will say (Let Thy (WiLL)be done on earth as it is in heaven)!!
@@goricaj1 Well if you believe that God chose to save you before you accepted Jesus as your savior. Then you aren't really saved and you'll have a hot time in hell. Because that's not the Gospel.
I enjoy how you use other people's words to put them in submission. The same thing could happen to you; we could cut and splice your reading of truth with ridiculous responses.
I agree with Sam who asked, "Did God decree" the meeting on the phone" with the caller? My answer is yes. Could it be that God wanted Sam to repent of his anger and listen to the context of scripture? "We know that all things work together for good, for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose ", the man on the phone had it correct, but ole Sam here doesn't listen too well, or is it because he's angry about something else regarding God's sovereignty? God does as He pleases and asks for no assistance from any among his creation.
Sam is a universalist and thinks the atonement also applies to Satan. The latter is true, research it. He gets this from Colossians 1:20. If Christ reconciled all things to Himself, then all are saved, which includes Satan. Sam reads the words "if you believe" into the passage. One cannot believe in Christ since we are dead to God in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1). God has to draw you to the Son to believe (John 6:44). Sam becomes emotional and ad hominem and says strong words when someone does not agree with him. In other words, if we do not walk single file behind Sam, we are not right with God.
Sam is a fallible human like all of us. He's not a pope, preist, or bishop, his teachings are not infallible, but he certainly isn't a universalist. Perhaps you have a different definition of the word, in which case I'm interested. It would be foolishness to suggest satan will be saved, since he will never follow God. That being said, I think there are good arguments on both sides of the predestination debate, and I wouldn't condemn anyone who holds either view. If we lie about others, though, our salvation is in jeopardy. God bless!
Sam was talking about humans. Offspring of ADAM. I don't believe he is saying Jesus blood redeems the sins of Satan and fallen angels. Can you give me the source of your accusation.?
You're right. The sovereignty of God over all things is indeed basic. "God's kingdom rules over all" (Ps 103:19); "All things serve you" (Ps 119:91). God is shown to be sovereign over Satan's activity in Job. God is shown to be sovereign over kings and kingdoms in Daniel (Dan 4, esp. vv. 34 ff.; see also Prov 21:1). He is sovereign over human salvation (Romans 9-11). He chooses the lowly to be saved so that none can boast before Him (1 Cor 1:29 ff.). He is pleased to blind the intelligent (Luke 10:21; 1 Cor 1:21). Be careful not to confuse the basic teachings that you hear in most churches with the actual teachings of the Bible. They are often two very different things.
I'm still lost as to how this destroys limited atonement - Christ died only for the elected. Maybe someone can help me. Two things in Colossians 1:19-20 - (1)God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in Jesus. vs 22 - (2)And through HIM to reconcile to himself all things.. by through his blood shed on the cross". God lives 100 percent in HIs son - and reconciles all things through his son - through his blood, his cross - NEVER apart from his son and his cross. There is no reconciliation to God apart from HIs son and His cross. the TWO is HOW God reconciles the world. Sam is saying - God sent Christ to reconcile the world. but it's only applied to those who come to believe. Doesn't limited atonement say the same thing? Christ blood was shed to save those who continue in the faith. "vs. 23 - If you continue in your faith..." On the second part I'm totally lost - Nothing can happen without God permitting it. Otherwise, things are happening without God directing it. Are we saying GOD can't limit, direct, stop, or allow the sins in the heart of men to see fruition? Didn't Jesus tell Judas to go do what was in His heart? Just because GOD governs sin doesn't make him the author of it. He governs all things in this world. Am I wrong here?
You hold a sightly different variation of Limited Atonement from the Mainstream ones, they Emphatically deny that Christ died for the WHOLE WORLD, that he died FOR ONLY THE ELECT....we call it the ONLYLITIS VIRUS
No one is saved until they chose to believe. His atonement is for all of creation, there is no limit. You're forgetting free will. If god decides everything, which obviously he can, then no one has free will. With no free will there is no just judgement, because you have no agency or responsibility. How can the actions of a puppet be just? Do pencils misspell words? Do guns kill people?
@@MrShoelessjoej wanna know why there will be no sin in heaven? Because you literally don’t have a reason to do so. Here on Earth we have ALOT of problems. Even celebrations what do you do here on Earth? Problems again. Weddings is a celebration, and yet there is a chance for divorce. Birthdays are celebrations and yet you still have to keep dealing with problems. In heaven it is the greatest celebration. And you will sing, dance, and praise God for so long that you have no idea how much time has past.
You've gone too far actually. Isa 42:1 Jesus Christ is the Elect. If you are in Him, you are elect. If you are dwelling, abiding, staying, continuing in, persevering in, living in The Word of God..... you are elect in Christ, the Word of God in the flesh. John 15 (abiding in the love of God) Being a follower of Christ is not a random, arbitrary choice. Not by God and not by us. Almighty God gave us a meeting place to find Him. On our knees. Even the quadraplegic, child, poor, rich, elderly, mentally handicapped person can get there and find Him.
God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established. Proverbs 16:33; Matthew 17:12; John 19:11; Acts 2:23; Acts 4:27,28; Romans 9:15,18; Romans 11:33; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; James 1:13,17; 1 John 1:5.
My friend, I hope all is well with you. I endeavor to change your mind, by using the word of our Lord, and I pray to work by the Spirit to show you the truth of scripture. Let me first lay out how I understand your argument so I can accurately respond. Your claim is that 1 Corinthians 2:8 “destroys Calvinism” what I think you mean by this is that when the text says, “if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.” You take that to mean that the men could have chosen to do something differently, thus proving choice, and disproving the absolute decree of God over all things. Now let me try to refute this argument my friend, doing so in love. 1. Calvinists do not deny that all men have choice, we all make choices every single day of our lives. We claim that because we are slaves of our nature that our choices are subject to our nature, as Christ says in John 8, “everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.” 2. The text does not refute the fact of God’s sovereign decree. The scriptures are very clear on this. Ephesians 1 says that God, “works all things according to the counsel of His will” Romans 8 says, “all things work together for good for those who are called according to His purpose.” Proverbs 16 also says that, “Yahweh has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil.” 3. I do not want to just quote scriptures opposite to your point without directly addressing the text you brought up as well though. God works through our individual choices to fulfill his glorious will, so when it says that if they understood they would not have crucified the Lord, this is true, but it is not saying that they could have done something differently, and I shall show you. Acts 3 Peter says, “You denied the holy and righteous One… (and) put to death the Author of life… and now brothers, I know you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers did also. But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all his prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.” So we see God fulfilled His purpose in Christ’s death through the means of the ignorance of the Jews and the rulers. This is not all Peter says on the subject though, in Acts 4 it says, “For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the gentiles and the people of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.” So even though the men would not have crucified Christ if they understood, they were predestined not to understand. I hope this finds you well friend. God bless you, peace to you and your house.
@@cole_nielsen wow, you certainly have a gift for doing this, I think you might be better than me, pity we cannot get together and do this, we might make a good team. I do my best but I’m getting old and I’m a bit sceptical and think my comments help people with right understanding already then those who don’t. I have. This is what the Bible says: Matthew 13:12 For whoever has, more will be given to him, and he will have more than enough. But whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. I have watched many debates over the years and I have never seen even one case were the opposite stopped and said,” you are right and we are wrong and I have never seen it in a back and forth in the comments either, the truth is falling on deaf ears, until this post where a so called Calvinist appears to have changed his mind. The Bible calls that changing your mind with every wind of doctrine and says that such a person is unstable. It might have been staged too, you cannot know what to expect these days, so much dishonesty and these people make money from the adds depending upon how many watch them. I’m am warring against false doctrine, in a biblical sense, I am not called to get up in Church to teach, I believe that this is my calling. When I get even one thumbs up, it means that I have reached one person and made a difference.God Bless.
This gentleman is very rude and arrogant. Or scared because he knows he can't disprove God's word. No matter what he call Calvinism, doctrines of grace, or any other title you give this understanding, it is the truth of God's word. Any other explanation of soteriology can not stand. All scripture teaches God's sovereignty over everything! Nothing happens outside His decree! We should worship Him for His saving grace not try to lesson His grace, mercy, and love. He will be glorified in all things! To Him be the glory! P.S. I ask you that you calmly talk to people with respect and dignity, then you wouldn't come across as rude and impatient.
Obviously Sam’s example in Romans 3 is wrong. He is attempting to say that the propitiation of sins happens at the time of Christs death and resurrection, and therefore God doesn’t elect until after that. It demonstrates complete misunderstanding of election and he completely ignores Ephesians 1:4. Additionally, by Sam’s logic, everyone who then died before Christs atonement cannot be saved, because they died before Christs propitiation. In true Sam fashion if I were to say read the plain text of John 3:16, “whomever believes in Him should not perish” - so everyone who died before Christ is in hell. Clearly Sam doesn’t understand that Christ is the lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world. (Rev.13:8)
Bad argument with Colossians. If you’re gonna say him creating all things and “him to reconcile all things to himself” are referring to the same “all things” then you’re saying Satan is included in that. Nice try tho.
Not at all. Now you are guilty of obfuscation. The point he made is in the grammar. "All things" is a generic expression and literally refers to ALL THINGS. In the first passage the context clearly delineates the extent of physical creation. In the second reference, ALL THINGS is the most universal declaration possible, but the context clearly refers here to the objects of Christ's reconciling death, mankind. But tell me now, what do you think of Caiaphas' words? You know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for THE PEOPLE, and that THE WHOLE NATION SHOULD NOT PERISH Do you really want to say by any stretch of the imagination that Caiaphas did not really mean THE WHOLE NATION? Now clearly Caiphas wanted the death of one man to substitute for the potential slaughter of the ENTIRE NATION. There is no ambiguity to be had in that. No limitations. This is the inalienable and indisputable SENSE (Nehemiah 8:8) of Caiphas words. Yet the Holy Spirit was pleased to take obvious THE SENSE (Neh. 8:8) of the ACTUAL SCOPE of his words and apply it literally to the ENTIRE NATION of Israel when referring to the fact that Christ died for their sins. All unbelieving Jews. And Christ died not merely for the Entire Nation of Israel but also for the sake of His people in all nations. But here we should observe something: The APOSTOLIC Rule of Exposition teaches that we should teach using Spirit taught Words not man's wisdom, comparing Scripture with Scripture. And where possible we should use like passages within the same writer. Thus John uses the same terminology in 1 John 2:2 where he clearly states: He is the PROPITIATION not for our sins only BUT ALSO for the sons of THE WHOLE WORLD So Christ died for THE ENTIRE NATION of Israel and also for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD
I love you Sam but you did just over talk him and didn't respect him enough to at least tell you why he believes what he believes. Whether you think he's wrong or not. Which 100% I think he is but you have to understand something Sam, even of you think you know what he's going to say, your listeners like me that want to learn didn't know. Now, that was a missed opportunity for me to learn. Also, how can we do the will of God and lead people to the truth if we are more worried about winning arguments instead of souls? Not a chance that man will change his mind now because it will be associated with you slamming him and kicking the door shut. I understand you're passionate about the word but please, take a few steps back and lead with a little more love next time.. God Bless. Jehovah Shalom, Shalom ✌️ 👉📖🪔☝️✝️👑🙏🙌❤️🔥
@user-kp5gx6pp2v You're missing the point. Sam wouldn't even let him talk half the time because SAM "knew what he would say" but we didn't know what he would say. That's my point! Sam wasn't allowing for others to learn from these arguments. He was making it about himself. Think of it like this, What was the point of God asking Adam why he was covered? Did God not know why? Or, Did God already know what he was going to say but the point was for Adam to know what he did wrong? Sorry but Sam may be smart with the Word but he lacks love! Blocking someone because he doesn't like someone is debating in a way that edifys himself? I love Sam because I'm required to but I do not respect him. He's got an Ego that needs to be checked and people need to stop encouraging him. Pride is a sin, he VERY Clearly suffers with it and people like you would rather ignore it and encourage it rather than act in accordance to God's word because he's a good apologist in favor of your views
It is very sad to listen to your rather aggressive form of discussion, which is manipulative and does not give an opportunity for the other to construct a logical argument because you keep interpreting. You may think you are being logical and biblical in presenting your case but you just seem to be railroading your opponent. You may be right in your interpretation, but you have lost the argument and any respect I might have.
God DECREE from eternity does not means it's going to be subjectively logical. If God DECREES from eternity it does not negate the fact that man has a free will. We can choose freely whether for good or bad, but at the same time God's providence outweighs all of that because his eternal decrees is for righteousness which will overpower man's free will regardless. God is not confined to humans rationalism. So, Calvinism is really taken out of context. I believe in the teachings that is labeled Calvinist, but it must be properly interpreted. I totally agree God chooses those who he chooses, because he is God (Ex. 33:19). But that does not mean man is held against their will to choose freely. Isis who chooses to rape is a choice of someone who does not yet believe. God can still decree things for honor and things for dishonor. One man can make decisions that can lead into the Gods blessings while another one makes decisions that leads to God's promise of cursing (Deuteronomy 28). This free will of man still falls in the PROVIDENCE OF GOD because man is confined to time and space, but God's decree is outside of that. He is righteous and we are not on our own. Your right on some things Sam, but not all of it. Because if God gave you all of the answer than you should be Jesus. I believe we take terms to the extreme and don't realize that God's truth is revealed in his creations. We can see God's truth revealed in bits and pieces of all different religions and beliefs but not entirely in those specific beliefs. That's why scriptures teaches that we rightly divide the word of truth. We can't just say, "hey your wrong and they are right" because there is truth that can be discovered in every thing God created. So don't let the mistakes of others along with your misunderstanding of things cause you to overlook the hidden truths within it, ALL TO JUST PROVE YOUR EGO AND ARROGANCE. THUS GOES FOR EVERYONE. Calvinism has truth in it, if you would only see it through the lens of scriptures. It's spiritual and scriptural not debatable. We can't debate away truth to make content on RUclips. Because truth is absolute and objective. We need to distinguish eternity from earthly life which is limited. Our rationalism is limited and we can entertain ourselves with our own knowledge which proves our sinful and fallen nature. That's where Calvinism teaches the total depravity of man. We need Jesus' for that renewal. Being elect is not confined to God choosing who will do good in the future, but it's according to what he decrees from eternity for his purpose. So let's not confined eternal decree to our subjective understanding of the word we created in this world. His purpose of eternal decree is on the basis of his purpose and will, not ours. Did God know that the Jews would kill Jesus? Of course. Did God will it for them to be evil and kill Jesus? No! They chose freely to do it because of sin. At the same time, their free will to be evil, still fell into the providence of God to crucify Jesus which in turned was necessary for the atonement of our sins. Will everybody accept this? NO!!!!! Did God know that everyone will not accept his gift of salvation? YES!!!!!! So we can say he decreed it for his purpose not ours. It's our free will that is evil and separates us from God and we see that in the Garden of Eden. That's the teachings of the Bible, which some says it's Calvinism. Like I said, people take things to the extreme and totally mis the point. And that we can say is eternally decreed. Our limited minds have limited access and understanding but we can still get a glimpse of the truth if we just look hard enough. Glory to God. 18:5718:57
I believe that you are wrong, Jesus came as a human, not an Angel or any other creature, He died as a man, offspring of Eve, Son of Adam. I don’t think you are seeing the whole picture. John 8:44, Jesus Words,” The father whose sons you are is the Devil, those He was addressing were not sons of Adam, Adam is not the Devil. Jesus said, I have come to seek and to save the lost: Luke 19:10. Now if God goes to all that trouble, don’t you think He will succeed. Limited means limited to what is Adam’s offering. Limited Atonement is just meaning limited to humans, those He came to save, if people go to Hell, then they are not the ones that He came to Save. Can God fail in what He came to do? Of course not John first chapter should put an end to man having any say in who God saves. All Scripture is God Breathed and is necessary, man does not live on bread alone but by EVERY Word that proceeds from The Mouth of God. Good you know your scriptures but if you let it go to your head, you become blind to certain truths. No verse or chapter or book of the Bible stands alone, don’t miss the overall message. Don’t dismiss me as a Calvinist because I am NOT. I believe every word of the Bible and it says we are Predestined and that doesn’t make God subject to man and nothing else should be read in either, I didn’t learn anything from Calvin and I can tell you from Scripture why people should not call themselves a Calvinist either. One thing about the Bible, it hasn’t changed and it still says what it always has said from New Testament until now. Whatever Calvin or anyone else got, they got from studying from the Bible, so why go to them for what the Bible teaches when we already have God’s Word.
hmmm... redemtion of all creatures? does this apply to fallen angels since fallen angels are part ot the creation. If it is not limited, does it apply for them too?
Sam's inability to listen to others make their points and then rebutting the point makes me wonder if he is incapable of doing so. Maybe he's afraid someone may challenge his perspective and he won't be able to answer with a legitimate point. Listen to others then respond unless you're afraid; this is the Islamic tactic when defending their false profit or their evil religion...
Sam was talking about specific scriptures and didn't want to get sidetracked. Can you imagine you're at work? You are the bakery manager, and a customer walks in and just wants to talk to you ALL day about concrete? "Excuse me for interrupting you sir, but are you here to order an apple pie, cake or some bakery item? I don't know what you are talking about, but I have a business to run." He clearly showed this man, in a decent period of time, without nonsense, that there is nothing for them to agree on. No reason at all for them to be talking further. Case closed. He was polite, firm, but polite.
Notice how Sam only wanted a yes or no out of him and wouldn’t let him speak after that. That’s because there’s very good answers from the Calvinist position and Sam didn’t want anyone to hear them. Sam is only in this to win debates and boost his ego.
The biggest irony of Calvinism continues to be this: Calvinists don’t realize that, if their system is as true as they say it is, then every single person who rejects Calvinism does so because God decreed it, and they lack any free will ability to do otherwise. Thus, when Calvinists get angry at us for rejecting Calvinism, they’re really just angry at (apparently) God’s Sovereign Decree. Of course, Calvinists completely re-define Sovereignty to mean “determining all things,” so maybe that’s the issue.
Does God have exhaustive knowledge of everything and everyone? Does God know who will for sure not belive in Him, thus will go to hell? Does God not know all of this infallibly without doubt? Yet He still created the person who He knows will never believe? If you say yes to any of that, then that person was born/created with zero chance of believing. Free will does not give anyone a pass, they all have the same problems they claim Calvinism has.
There’s no way calvinism is from our lord no way a almighty perfect moral god would force people to do evil don’t u dare disrespect him like that, we do evil, not our father/son/spirit
Sam for the last couple of months that one of your prey is one of many praying for the effectiveness of the Holy spirit through you. I certainly hear your prey answer your conduct has certainly changed when I compare your previous debates. In conclusion many of us are learning good sound doctrine not that we haven't before but we all can hear it on another level, to God be the glory amen.
“For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.” Colossians 1:16-20 ESV Just to clarify, He dies for all, and only those who choose Him will be saved. This part of scripture destroys Calvinism.
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Watch what he said at the end. Timestamps:
0:00 Did John Calvin actually teach limited atonement?
3:52 Does the Bible teach limited atonement?
12:46 Did God already determine who to save and what sins humans will commit?
Vomitevole!
Read the recent book "The Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism", by Ken Wilson, if you want to understand the origin of this man-made doctrine. Augustine was attempting to explain how infants could become the "elect" through water baptism. Since the child had not come to faith, it had to be based on the will of another. It could have nothing to do with the will of the child.
@@SpotterVideo Salvation is entirely based upon the Will of God, nothing else and no one else,man is dead in sin, if you don’t understand this, you understand nothing, God is Sovereign and in Him is No darkness at all. What the Bible says is entirely true try reading it instead of your own fallen opinion.
@@hasimhodzic9649 In the passage below the Apostle Paul said a person must "hear" the Gospel and "believe" the Gospel, and then be "sealed" with the Holy Spirit.
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Notice the word "faith" in the scripture below.
Mat_9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.
Mat_9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
Mat_15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Sufficient for All, Efficient for the Elect.
Glory to the Father and to the Son and the Holy Spirit. Learning every day thank you.
Wow, how can someone believe this! IT got me teary eyed listening to this! the devil is a lie!!!!! I actually didn't know what calvin's believe pray for them to have that veil lifted
So , Sam and you believe God is a goofy God who does not have control of everything? That sounds irrational.
Where then is the omnipotence of God YHWH then? -No bird feather goes down without your Father knows...
is an Error to put God on human level of selfRighteoussness and polítical correctness, subject to Time.
He knows everything even before the creation. Though evil happens ( by Adam and the Nahash) , it is part of the freewill process consequences , he knows before ( he is God but acts according His legal set). Any action out of His legal set would be an elimination of freewill and man
Question : Do you believe evil is something out of control of God , or is part of his divine rightheouss plan of redemption as the only option to freewill ?
@@rcormonutube Try to make more sense. You are rambling. God can work his will and still allow his creations to have free will. By your own standards, he knows everything at all times through all possibilities. So he gives his creations free will so they can choose to worship him of their own free will. And since he can see all time and all possibilities throughout time he doesn't need to control everything the way you are portraying it. It's you. that is limiting God. We that know, that God gave us free will are the ones that believe God can do all things. Even while working around the free will choice that he gives us.
@rcormonutube
The nonsense of calvanism
The bible says God is all good, and there is no evil found within him
But you have this goofy god who declares evil acts like rape, torture, incest murder, and etc
Calvanism also violates euthyphros delimma
The delimma goes like this
Does God decide what is good?
^^
This says that the actions of goodness are arbitrary, thus making moral objectivity null
Or
Does God appeal to a higher standard of goodness?
^^
Meaning, God isn't all good because he is appealing to a standard outside himself
The bible clearly answers this dilemma
God is good
Meaning God is the standard of good
Now, let's switch up good and replace it with evil
If God is all good, and your evil god decrees evil acts, then obviously he isn't all good
Unless you want to go with, well whatever God decrees can't be evil because God says so
^^
Then you are stuck with an arbitrary standard of evil
Meaning evil doesn't inherently exists
We have a standard of good, and it is God
According to calvanism
The standard of evil is God
God decrees evil malicious acts =good [according to you]
Human doing evil acts is evil even though God made him do it [according to you]
Goofy as hell
And here is another thing to think about
If God forced them to rape, murder, and steal, then it isn't their fault they are sinning because they are being CONTROLLED
Talk about throwing personal responsibility out the window
Don't blame me for raping you, blame God
Logically speaking, calvanism is pure idiocy
The name calvanism also suggest you are a pagan
Branding yourself with the title of a man-made theological system created by a man named Calvin
Let's not forget your God decreed babies are in hell
1 day old all the way to 9 months, doesn't matter, he decreed it, so the baby burns for its sins even before it was born and had the capability to sin
What utter rubbish
@@crushnext Just answer the question ... Stop tap-dancing with expressions "working around free will " ( or goofing around? ) .
@@rcormonutube I did answer your question, you raca. You are just too dense to understand it.
I was decreed to like this video! Great clip Brother!
What I really love is the way you cut through the BS and clear up the confusion. You could hear the way that guy didn't even believe what he was saying bbut had to say it anyway because Sam wouldn't let him off the hook. Wish I had that same clearity of thought.
Very fascinating I’m learning another cult😢Thank you sharing brother Jeremy ❤✝️🙏
GLORY BE TO THE FATHER, TO THE SON, AND TO THE HOLY SPIRIT, ONE GOD ALMIGHTY. HALLELUJAH. AMEN.
Powerful, Glory to God! 💯☝🏾 God bless you, Sam. May God continue to bless and strengthen you as you continue to teach his Word. #faith #blessed #Godsglory
For God to decree before creation all the bad things that would happen in the future makes Him an UN-LOVING God. I don’t believe in that “god”. God has creates us because He is LOVE ITSELF but also has given us absolute FREEWILL because without it then it wouldn’t be Love at all.
I was thinking the same thing 👍👍!!
So then, how would you explain evil in your idealistic world?
Your approach is very selfcompliant and limited.
From where do you take that human will doesn't exist in Calvinism? As always people that reject Calvinism have absolutely no clue of the thing they are supposedly against. Human will IS a part of God's decree, but naturally God's will is above the one of man, or are you instead supposing that the will of man should govern God's one? Because this is what you are adhering to. Would you leave your children in control of your household? And yet this is what you are literally saying that God is doing in His creation. It's totally absurd.
@@lavir74 i agree, the god they are forcing on Scripture is a little helpless god who is subject to his creation and has to bow down to the mighty WILL of man, I know my Scriptures a lot better than that, The God of The Bible is a Mighty God and He knows everything far far beyond knowledge for us, by The Size of His Holy Spirit He is far beyond the size of our universe because He is omnipresent, which makes Him limitless in size and yet in Revelation is One holding the Scroll sitting on The Throne of God, must be The Father and The Lamb turned up looking like He was slain, this is The Son. All Powerful All Power and He Loves us and has a purpose for everything that He Created. These people don’t know Him or understand His Word The Bible, so they have to make it fit their own narrative. I believe 100% in A Sovereign God. If He Created All This and wasn’t in Complete Control, that would be irresponsible. We know how to make a piece of Cake and we know how it will turn out and what flavour it will be depending on what ingredients we put in and cooking time and all the rest, but depending on how good we are, we can make mistakes but God is PERFECT and He doesn’t make mistakes and In Him is no darkness at all, just think, making this universe and everything in it was a peace of cake for Him.
The free will doctrine is unbiblical because man is born in sin and everyone who sins is a slave to sin, we have a sin nature so we naturally sin. The Bible is full of this fact and examples of it.only God can set us free and it says, if the Son sets us free we will be free indeed, that is the only way anyone can be free because all have sinned and fallen short of The Glory of God. Grace is unmerited favour, unmerited means it has nothing to do with us, no faith no prayer no intellectual understanding no thought, nothing, everything is a Gift from God and this is just a very superficial understanding of God’s Plan. Much information is missed when people read their Bible and false doctrine is borne from ignorance. God Bless.
Blind leading the blind.
Excellent clip Jeremy 👍. How in the good name of The Lord could he have died only for the elect. What a depressing religion. Then what's the point 🤔. Glory to the father and the son and the holy spirit 🙏✝️✝️🙏
Sam, at one time I started to wonder why Martin Luther and Calvin being both reformers, the doctrine are different in both camps, when I read the Lutheran Confessions, the Book of Concord, I found the difference, how you interacted with the Calvinist gentleman, showed me things that I missed, in their teaching and glad I didn't pursue looking at it any further, not only there but with your interacting with Islam and JWs. God is using you mightally my friend.
He didn't show anything at all. It's difficult to interact with someone else when they don't give you the ability to form a response for more than 30 seconds, nor are you allowed to pose any questions or examples of your own, but that's what Sam is doing. If you really want to find out about Calvinism and be objective on the matter then you should instead study the actual reformers. Sam, btw, was a Calvinist too for more than a decade and he knows perfectly that many of the things he says are false but he has a personal vendetta against White and that's the only reason he "changed".
@@lavir74 I don’t know him but I thought it was something like that,good job 👍
@@hasimhodzic9649 This is the story. Everything started when James White (that at the time was a sort of mentor and point of reference for Sam) invited Yasir Qadhi to speak about Islam at a Christian conference. Such a decision was naturally harshly criticized by many fellow Christians, including other Calvinists in the friends' circle of James, among which there was also Sam. However Sam, in typical fashion, didn't just criticize James' actions from Scriptural and/or ethical standpoint as the others did, but he instead started intermingling his rebukes with anger fueled rants. This didn't stand well with James that, on his part (given that he suffers himself with problems of ego), lashed out at Sam for his lack of control over his tongue and anger, while also revealing some personal issues in the life of Sam that were caused by the latter's emotional instabilities. This infuriated Sam even more, that by now was totally out of himself, posting countless raging rants against White full of personal insults and vulgar language, so much so that even his closest personal friends (as Anthony, David, Ken etc.) had to step in to rebuke him for such behavior, and Sam, naturally, didn't take this well at all.
Meanwhile in his Facebook page there were many in the anti-reform side that instead incited Sam's rants, constantly telling him how great he was for what he was doing, fueling his ego to the outmost. So Sam started surrounding himself with these people while distancing himself more and more from his old friends and this coincided with the slowly, but steadily, change in his doctrinal stance too. Now that his friends were mostly Catholics and Eastern Orthodox and they constantly fueled his ego, he now "suddenly" became a full on provisionist that lashed out against Calvinism at every turn. Even his demeanor had now changed to what he is today, where his anger and lack of control over his tongue is seen as a sort of "apostolic" virtue.
That's it. This is the story and that's why Sam has become a sort of pitiful case study in the apologetics realm of what unbridled ego can do to an individual.
@@lavir74 I know it’s been a while and I am only now reading this comment of yours, thanks for the information my brother, I sense that you and I are much the same and have similar ministries under the Lord. We both have to be careful and remain humble before our Father, I am holding you before our Father as I write this and I pray you do the same for me if you get a chance to read my reply to you. The verse that comes to my mind is this: Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. I wish to encourage you and I think after years of interest and study with the Leading of The Holy Spirit on the subject, that with everything we are seeing happening in the world, we might be going home this year and I have long come to believe in a Feast of Trumpets rescue Rapture for the Body of Christ. Feast of Trumpets should be about the 5ft of October and if I am correct there will be a sign in Heaven and I won’t be the only one who is saying it and it won’t be just a few watches on line but a whole lot of Christians around the world will believe it, the sign should be visible both day and night for a number of days from about October 2. God Bless My Brother 🌙👍✝️🙏 ps my biblical reference was from a KJV, don’t think that I am a KJB only believer because of it, it was the first one I was able to copy and paste.
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt 😅😂 you gotta love Sam even though he can be a little harsh at times. God bless him ❤❤
A little?
It's really contradictory that this man believes God decrees. But at the same time we're all supposed to believe God gave us free will🤦🏼♂️
You're talking about ALLAH of the Quran
@@JesusIsGod001
Ummm... The subject he was talking about was Calvinists. What are you talking about?
Yes, God faves a free will since the beginning, if you read genesis chapter 2 and 3 you will understand it.
When God told Adam not to eat from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, because He will die. There’s the condition the God orders to Adam.
Also when you read the book Ezekiel 28, also God teach that Lucifer decided( Free Will) to corrupt himself because of his PRIDE, Iniquity was found in his heart.
Jesus Christ told the Samaritan woman; Believe me woman; if you drink of these water. You’ll be thirsty again, but the one who drinks the water that I will give, never be thirsty again. John 4. See God states clearly that we are moral individuals with a FREE WILL.
This is not Calvinism, nor Arminianism, IS GOD TEACHING US HIS CHARACTER.
@@kiwiburciaga
He really ruined music for me which makes me not only feel bad for Satan. It makes me really sad that (Satan) a brother has fallen so far that not only have we lost a brother we lost somebody that could have taught us. Remember even Satan is a family member that lost his marbles and that we have to be sad we lost a brother in Christ. Lord Jesus hate what we have done in sin not us ourselves. It's actually great breaking that not so of us since I'm Christ can be together
Sorry auto correct isn't exact, I hope you get the jist of what saying
“but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,”
1 Peter 3:15 ESV
Sam, you have a wealth of knowledge and solid arguments, but you are not gentle and often don’t show respect. This video is a great example of that. I pray that you grow in these areas.
When I think of calvinism my heart literally breaks . 😢 it is a teaching from hell . It is a different gospel. I pray they repent before the return of the LORD .😢
The true gospel is the gospel of grace. This means that our salvation is entirely God's work, not a combination of our work and God's work. Romans 4, esp. v. 16, makes this point. The Bible never describes human salvation as a result of human "choice" (their faith, yes, but this is repeatedly attributed to God throughout Scripture). On the other hand, human salvation is attributed to God's choice repeatedly (e.g. 1 Cor 1:27 ff.). In fact, this is what "election" means: choice (God's choice of us, not the other way around).
If humans had an inherent ability to choose faith and repentance, then their salvation wouldn't be entirely by grace, but partly by their works. But God chose faith as the means of salvation so that salvation would be entirely by grace (this is stated explicitly in Rom 4:16), and so that no one would boast before Him (1 Cor 1:29).
"Calvinism" can go too far at times, and we should never trust a system of theology just because some trusted person or church taught it to us. But the same is true of trusting Sam Shamoun, just because his arguments make sense to us. He is arguing philosophically, not biblically.
If we read the Bible for what it says, rather than what we want it to say, we will see that man's salvation is 100% the result of God's mercy. If we are trusting in men, then yes, we should repent. But trusting in the testimony of God's Word, which teaches that all glory goes to our gracious God for our salvation because we were incapable of choosing, is not something to repent from.
My takeaway is, nowhere in the Bible does it say you have to have read the Bible at all, be in a system, be in a church, be a theologian, know any scripture at all. The way to salvation is Jesus and you don't have to know anything. I don't know how a uncreated being made everything from nothing. I believe it and that's enough. Our minds cannot comprehend such a concept as just one dimension past length width and depth. We know it exists, but your mind cant understand how in the 5th dimension, there are no spheres. If you could see the 5th dimension you would see all spheres as a wave in space time. Remember theres no more length width depth or time. It exists but you and I cant make sense of that. Believe and be born again are the requirements period.
Sam absolutely slaps the Muslim "faith" and he slaps the Calvinist "system" as well. Well done.
I was interested in Calvinism until I discovered that the Bible clearly shows God does not decree that anyone should sin. It's shocking how obvious this is if you read the scriptures with an honest intent to understand.
Jeremiah 19:5
“They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, WHICH I COMMANDED NOT, NOR SPAKE IT, NEITHER CAME IT INTO MY MIND:"
James 1:13
“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:”
"Did got decree for me to block you?" the savagery 😅
Of course it did. Did God know that He was going to block him? Or was He unaware?
I seriously don't understand what the point even is. Is Sam now pretending that God doesn't know the future?
@@lavir74 Forcing someone to do something is entirely different than knowing they're going to do something. I know whenever I talk to a calvanist they're going to twist scripture, did I make them do it?
@@skecchi3201 Do you believe that Jesus' Crucifixion was decreed by God, do you? So was Jesus a puppet of the Father?
God having a decree doesn't mean that God "forces" man to do anything. This is the typical strawman Arminians use because they really have nothing better. The orthodox view in Calvinism is compatibilism, where the human will and the will of God are both part of God's decree. The only difference between your view of God and the one that Calvinists have is that you believe that God watches passively His Creation (that's very similar to the view of a Deist), while Calvinists instead believe that God oversees over His Creation (think about a stream of water where you swim in; all your individual actions are yours but the current leads you in a certain direction; a very crude analogy but it's simple enough to understand).
Your view of God is like a parent that leaves to his children full control of the household, expecting that all will go well. As a parent you would never do something so absurd but yet instead you expect God to do it. I guess that God was lucky enough that Noah was there at the time of the deluge elsewhere this world would have ended right there and all of God's plan about redemption would have been for nothing. I mean, if you believe such nonsense you can believe everything.
And as for "twisting Scripture", I somehow beg to differ, given that over and over and over again it is repeated that God does what He does and He's Sovereign over His creation. I could quote you hundred of verses talking about this. Where are the verses that instead say that God leaves control of His Creation to His creatures? There's not even one.
@@lavir74 not reading any further as I'm no Armenian, and certainly not a calvanist, I'm a Christian. Sod the influence of the deceiver that divides people into their evil waring camps. However, how did God bring about everything in Genesis again? Ah yes, by decreeing it so. You might what to look into the definition of what "decree" means. Also, don't long wind something and immediately make it clear it's not in good faith, because anyone who respects their time won't bother reading it.
How Christlike is it to talk over your opponent and be rude to them.
But your god decreed it.
@@ChristOverAllJeremyour God did decree that Sam would be unloving and not Christlike. Thanks for the admission!
@@onecrispynugget9959 blame your god for that! Do it!
@@ChristOverAllJeremy God isn’t obligated to save anyone😉
@@onecrispynugget9959 why don’t you blame your god for making Sam this way?
Reconcilation is Corporate as King of a kingdom. Salvation is elective by Christ the King. Come on Sam, you can do better.
"Whomsoever (anyone who) calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. That means anyone, without exclusion.
It actually means every believing one.
@@Kooch2004 Who would call on someone they don't believe in? If you call on him, you're asking Him to save you. So you believe that He can save you. If I'm drowning I'm not yelling for the guy that can"t swim. Lol
@@HiddenThingsofGod I was just clarifying the verbiage in the Greek for you. Because the way you have it worded seems to imply that anyone has the ability to believe, thus it is incumbent upon the individual. Whereas the Bible says that God’s love for the world was expressed by Him saving everyone who believes in His Son, making it incumbent on God.
@@Kooch2004 Whatever you are attempting to clarify isn't very clear.
@@HiddenThingsofGod I’m saying the text says everyone believing will be saved. It’s not a universal plea by God hoping people will choose to do so.
God decreeing people to do evil things would mean that he is by nature evil as well. For God to decree someone to do evil would defeat the purpose of sin itself ( a consequence of free will ) and the sin you are pre-destined to commit would not really be your fault as you acted against your own free will. This would also defeat the purpose of Hell, for if God would throw you down in hell for the sins that you are pre-destined to do, then this defeats the attribute of God being a just judge. This is something Muslims believe themselves. The sixth pillar of Iman is Qadha and Qadar, pretty much pre-destination (let's not mention Allah's acts of deception in the Qur'an for example him sending a fake Jesus to die on the cross for example in 4:157).
God decreeing that people do evil things has nothing to do with God being the source of the evil. Man has his will and God has His and God's will is naturally above man's. This is what it's meant by God's decree. The only difference between Arminians and Calvinists concerning God's decree is just that Arminians believe that God is just a passive entity (and even this is not true because they have God actively decree things too in certain points, as for example the Crucifixion - since they cannot deny it as Scripture is pretty clear - hence turning God into an inconsistent being) while for Calvinists God is active in His creation, overseeing things.
Sam - So when God let Satan destroy Job’s property, kill his children, inflict him with sickness, etc. Could God have not permitted it? Of course! But he didn’t… why?
If God is truly God then all that happens on earth is by His will. God poured out His wrath on His own innocent Son. And God is just in destroying every man woman and child on the earth.
Pray for me!
Jesus C, everyone I have ever met in Protestant circles think they are experts on Bible and God matters. My take is as good as theirs . Who’s right?
i only heard that word but never realized what it is... it is not only unbiblical but also is very wicked and i don't know how a christian heart can believe in such a thing...
if onlyumore souls took more intrest in whats really important...
What a blasphemous doctrine no different then the sunni god. It logically concludes that “God” is the author of evil
Calvinists reject that God is the author of sin. Sin begins in the heart of man.
Ok, some questions for Sam Shamoun then:
"Do you believe that God instructed Israelites to kill Canaanite babies? Do you believe that God decrees that unbelievers will spend an eternity in a place that is worse than any rape room? Do you believe that God has foreknowledge and therefore saw all the horrors you describe (and worse), and knew that most human beings throughout would not be saved (Luke 13:23 ff.), and yet created this reality anyway? What kind of horrific God do you believe in?"
Sam Shamoun acts like he just caught this Calvinist in a moral quandary, as if he isn't caught in a different version of the same quandary. Denying God's sovereignty in human salvation doesn't solve the problem Sam is describing. If you believe God was willing to give people free will so that their love for Him could be genuine (this is stated absolutely nowhere in the Bible, by the way), then why did God willingly create this world where humanity has free will, all the while knowing that He would be morally bound to damn the great majority of them to eternal Hell? In this case, God desires the willing love of humans so much that He casts most of them into Hell. In other words, according to the mainstream view, God is willing to sacrifice most humans for the sake of His own goals and desires. The only difference between this view and Calvinism is that Calvinists claim God created everything for His glory, and such Arminians apparently believe God created everything so that He could be loved by (a minority of) humans.
Sam pretends that he is attacking the God of Calvinism, but he's not. He's just attacking God in general, since his arguments can be used against the Arminian God just as easily as the Calvinist God.
There are questions in life which cannot be answered with your big brain and your apologetic knowledge. There are things we don't understand, but pretending that the Bible doesn't constantly teach the sovereignty of God isn't the solution.
I don't think Sam is entirely fair here. How can arminians avoid the same conclusion as the calvinists? Did not God decree to *permit* the rape, according to Sam Shamoun?
I believe in Limited Atonement simply because this Atonement is limited ONLY to those who believes!
Saying yes that God predetermines certain sinful acts has got nothing to do with calvinism. As God removes His restraint from man ... his sinful nature takes over. And sinful nature leads to certain acts. In the times of Moses God refers to this as "hardening of the heart"
AND yes God chose His elect from even before the creation ... and yes ... God chosen people will be drawn by the Father towards His Son. I do believe that God can only be Sovereign in this regard if all of us has free will.
What is the point of having this debating program Vs Non believers if you believe in Unlimited Atonement ... then Hell will be empty.
Christ is the final and ONLY Atonement by which man can be saved. Christ is the final and ONLY Atonement by which the whole world can be saved. From this world towards the next He is the ONLY provision for all. But the only limitation is to believe. And the message of this salvation will be the same for everyone. There is no message for righteous people.
So yes. GOD IS ABSOLUTELY SOVEREIGN AND MAN HAS ABSOLUTE FREE WILL.
This is my understanding of some of the points of calvinism.
It's available to all unbelievers that includes us all as well, that now believe, so logically obviously technically honestly it is not limited at all.
Many thanks Sam for enlightening us on their views. Lessons learned: 1) w talking to a Calvinist make them explain their position verse by verse, 2) God's word is Supreme, not what anyone believes or thinks, etc. GB
Show them John Calvin too.
Mark 9:42 and Matthew 24:49 about beating your fellow servant.
I’m so happy I’m not Calvinist! What a sick belief!
Does God ever restrain evil or stop evil from happening according to your belief or is he completely hands off when it comes to that?
@@Paul-zf8ob I don’t believe in a Christian calling one self a Calvinist only because I know my Bible and we are all one in Christ, that said I can recognise that those who do claim that they are Calvinist are not disqualified from being my brothers in Christ, I believe a day will come when you will most certainly regret what you have written in your comment because we will all one day face our Creator.
@@hasimhodzic9649 The Bible tells us to call out heresy! Nice try guilt tripping me! Jesus came for all mankind. Calvinists are great Christian’s but a little too judgmental!
Give me a break...James White like calvinist... This guy doesn't hold a candle to James White. Sam Shamoun is afraid to debate James White.
You got that right! Have a good day brother.
Actually its James White who is afraid of debating Sam. White routinely refuses to debate opponents unless has enough control over the debate rules to prevent him from being exposed.
@@MasterKeyMagic That's silly. I've seen his debates and they are fair for both sides. Both sides get the same amount of time to make their case. So what you are saying doesn't even make sense.
Matthew 25 - separation of the entire human race into sheep and goats. Sheep are blessed by the father and go into Heaven. Goats are cursed and go to Hell. John 10 - Jesus says he lays down his life for the sheep. If you say He died for everyone, you’re saying He died for goats. I’m going to believe the one who is doing the atonement rather than man.
Useless arguments
@collinssheen8462 typical non thinking response, thanks for playing, but stay out of the deep end of the pool.
@@calvinismistrue Heretics make the loudest noise.
Get thee behind me!!!
@@calvinismistrue I have a question. When does the sheep and goat judgment take place?
His sheep were the ones that did His will. That's why they were sheep.
Jesus Christ IS still performing miracles today, I know from personal experience, I have felt the lord Jesus Christ right by my side and the power of the holy spirit.. Jesus is still healing people, prophecy is still happening today, it has not stopped.and anointing people today.
Father son and holy spirit, 3 in 1 person, yet working independently.
Jesus Christ died for everyone not just a elect few. We are all born into sin, until we Repent of our sins and give our lives to Jesus Christ. We are saved by grace not by works.
I wouldn’t say independently but rather working in perfect union who are distinct from each other. To say they are working independently is to say they have their own will rather they “the persons” are in perfect union
So does Christ's blood cover the sins of the angels?
Appealing to emotions. Yes or no, doesn’t prove limited atonement. Try again.
Does it or not? Not asking to prove some point. I just want to know if it does.
@ChristOverAllJeremy I have learned a lot from watching and I am trying to keep learning. So try again
Brian; angels don’t have BLOOD AND FLESH LIKE HUMANS.
1 Corinthians 15. Says that BLOOD AND FLESH CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM.
There are No redemption for Satan and the Fallen angels, because they SAW GOD IN THE TRINITY ESSENCE.
That’s is why we are ( humans, Christians) going to judge them.
@@kiwiburciaga Thank you for the clarification!
I like this Sam. He is polite and still swinging a sword. 👍
Sam is controlled, but there is nothing polite about his approach in this video.
Sam is so wise but here he is so rude and prideful. What good is the wisdom and knowledge without love?
God Bless you Sam
Wow Sam strawmanned the heck out of Total Depravity and the total corrupting effect sin has on men who are the morally responsible image bearers. This addresses his question of did God decree the "assault of a child". The answer is no. The armenian and the calvinist would both agree that God COULD stop it, but He doesn't yet according to the counsel of His will. Sam is strawmanning a position that is a distinction without a difference.
How did he strawman it? Please explain.
@@nathan010810 Basically, RevelatingDemarchist is pointing out that Sam's denial of God's ordination of all things doesn't eliminate the problem. In other words, a person who says that God ordains everything that happens may have a hard time explaining how God isn't therefore responsible for evil. But Sam has the same problem, since even if God didn't ORDAIN evil He still allows it. Why doesn't God step in and stop it if He could?
The answer that is typically given to this question is that God allows evil because otherwise He would be denying free will, and without free-will our love for God is not genuine. But please note that there is nowhere in the Bible that makes this argument. In fact, there is nowhere in the Bible that even mentions free-will. This is merely a philosophical concept created by man. Does man choose? Of course. Is his will free? Man's will is only free within the limits of our nature. But since our nature is fallen, it does not allow us to repent and believe. Thus, God must intervene in order for us to believe.
To get back to the original point, though, consider this question: Even if God does not ordain evil things to happen, He still has foreknowledge of everything, doesn't He? If so, then He knew all the evil things that would happen if He created the world, and yet He created it anyway. He knew that most of humanity would end up in Hell (see Luke 13:23), and created the world anyway. So isn't God responsible for the eternal, abject misery of most human beings.
These are very hard questions. Part of our situation as finite human beings is that we are dependent on God to help us trust Him, and have faith in His goodness, even when such questions make us doubt. There are no sufficient answers to some of these questions that we are capable of understanding at this point. But we can look to the cross of Christ, and see God's Son, sent by God Himself to die for us. This is a God we can trust, even if we can't make sense of some of life's most difficult questions. God Himself is the answer we need, not merely an intellectual answer.
@@TimWismer "Basically, RevelatingDemarchist is pointing out that Sam's denial of God's ordination of all things doesn't eliminate the problem. In other words, a person who says that God ordains everything that happens may have a hard time explaining how God isn't therefore responsible for evil. But Sam has the same problem, since even if God didn't ORDAIN evil He still allows it. Why doesn't God step in and stop it if He could?"
Brother, I am gonna step away from what Sam said and first just deal with what many Calvinists claim is true - that there is no effective difference between ordaining/decreeing evil and allowing it. Now I do not find the differences between the two to be as huge as what I thought that once were, but I do think that there is a difference. Decreeing is actually causing in the sense of bringing to bear. I know of few Calvinists who actually believe that God causes evil directly, and those that do, like Sonny Hernandez and - shudder - Juan Camara, I believe are mentally ill - and I am not joking.
No, most that I know simply think that God, in his foreknowlege allows the result of corrupt human nature to play its course because He will glorify Himself to His elect in the end by exacting His justice on the reprobate for their sins. I think that allowing in that sense fits with the Calvinist system quite well. The Arminian (and perhaps provisionist) view that I have seen is that God forbears - not allows - the evil in that he knows it is coming but suffers it in the foreknowlege that His plan can work with and around it to come to fruiton. The key point here is that ALLOW and FOREBEAR are not the same, the nuance being that the latter shows deliberate restraint. He could intervene but He won't because He can work bring His plan to fruition without interfering with free will, if that exists (whether it does or not is not my point here). Now I perscibe to neither system, but do find forebearance more like a loving God.
"The answer that is typically given to this question is that God allows evil because otherwise He would be denying free will, and without free-will our love for God is not genuine. But please note that there is nowhere in the Bible that makes this argument. In fact, there is nowhere in the Bible that even mentions free-will. This is merely a philosophical concept created by man. Does man choose? Of course. Is his will free? Man's will is only free within the limits of our nature. But since our nature is fallen, it does not allow us to repent and believe. Thus, God must intervene in order for us to believe."
Here you are assuming Sola Scriptura, and not everyone is a protestant. I am Eastern Orthodox and see scripture as prima not sola. But scripture is not all there is. Tradition and reason come into this too. Protestants don't just get to claim that reason is merely a human idea when reason is used when looking for the most reasonable interpretation of scripture. In fact, I do not think it wrong to say that reason works with tradition to guide reliable interpretations of scripture. A huge number of protestant denominations arises from varying interpretations within protestantism, and not all can be correct. One will have to do better with a non-Protestant than claiming that "it's not in the bible so ignore it". The bible does not mention free will? If it does not, so what? And is that strictly the case anyway? The bible tells us to obey - an empty command if we cannot anyway - at least until God activates us to elect mode.
The everyday experience says free will is the case at least to some extent, even if it is merely the compatibilist version that I accept myself. Man is only free within his nature? I agree, but that is still a form of free will and you cannot simply assume Total Depravity is our nature and that we will never choose God. That might work with your particular part of the congragation but not with Eastern Orthodox.
"To get back to the original point, though, consider this question: Even if God does not ordain evil things to happen, He still has foreknowledge of everything, doesn't He? If so, then He knew all the evil things that would happen if He created the world, and yet He created it anyway. He knew that most of humanity would end up in Hell (see Luke 13:23), and created the world anyway. So isn't God responsible for the eternal, abject misery of most human beings."
That gets to the thorny question of whether foreknowledge equates with causation. If God pushes a ball downhill, knowing how gravity works and knowing that when said ball hits bumps X, Y, and Z, that it will alter its trajectory in directions X1, Y1, and Z1, does the then directly cause every aspects the balls journey. And if further alterations in trajectory occur way down the hill in directions X100, Y100, and Z11, then did God directly cause those? Does the sequential distance of any alteration from the initial push matter? No, probably not, and as God placed all affecting factors in their places, then we can say that God causes it all.
But, and this is a big but, none of the elements here have any agency of their own. God is the only agent involved. Now the question is whether God is able to create a mind capable of autonomous agency. Some, like the aforementioned Juan Camara so absolutely not.
Moving forward, I try to imagine whether God can create a machine that generates random numbers. Is that possible? Well machines made by humans generate numbers that seem random enough. Is one to argue that they only appear random to us but are determined by God. Why would God need to do that? And what places more of a limitation on God - the inability to create a machine that generates random numbers or random numbers being outside His control? And how does this work with human beings having thoughts and making decisions of their own, whether or not those thoughs and ideas are constrained by nature? A better question is whether decisions are considered free when a person is able to choose between two or more options, or are the choices merely illusory? And how does that answer fit with the everyday experience. I offer no answer here because I have none, but I cannot help be see one more befitting of a God of love.
"These are very hard questions. Part of our situation as finite human beings is that we are dependent on God to help us trust Him, and have faith in His goodness, even when such questions make us doubt. There are no sufficient answers to some of these questions that we are capable of understanding at this point. But we can look to the cross of Christ, and see God's Son, sent by God Himself to die for us. This is a God we can trust, even if we can't make sense of some of life's most difficult questions. God Himself is the answer we need, not merely an intellectual answer."
Indeed those are hard questions, friend, but Calvinism played to its logical conclusions and operating only withing its own logical matrix offers no answers at all. In Calvinism, you believe, so you have been saved by God through His Son dying for your sins, and if you are saved, you are secure, and if you are secure, you are going to heaven. Except if you stop believing, and if that happens - which it often does, your faith was all an illusion and your were never saved to begin with. Calvinism has substance only while you are in the system and with others of like mind, and so long as you question nothing except other theological systems. You can truthfully never be sure you are saved. I wish no offense, but I cannot see why Calvinists can be so sure of their beliefs in the face of widespread apostasy.
@@nathan010810
Nathan: Wow, that is a lot! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'll like to respond to some of them, but don't have the time to do so thoughtfully right now. I'll try to respond in the next day or two.
@@TimWismer No problems mate. And I hope my problems with Calvinism don’t come across as personally directed to you.
I was vitriolic for the longest time. You could have called me a cage-stage anti-Calvinist. But while I still find the system to have all sorts of problems and indeed find some of them with the whole of Protestantism, I cannot dismiss the sincerity of the beliefs even if I do find that some beliefs sap the ordinary meanings out of certain words (all, love, world, good, evil).
And I’m not gonna pretend to know the answers. In fact I’m ok to not know.
Blessings anyway, and I’ll promise to be brotherly with you.
Do you believe that God decreed the horrific events of the crucifixion of Christ??
You have devils fighting devils now?
6:17
I thought you might know that is referring to the common grace. The possibility that everyone, no one excluded, in the work of CHRIST is in peace with GOD. Because in the wrath Jesus beard, GOD was pleased and pacified.
As a pastor I love, Sugel Michelén says, GOD is Sovereign we are responsible.
When Whitefield (calvinist) was asked about in which part of hell should Wesley (arminian) be, he told to his students ; we will not even see his (Wesley) face from the brightness of his glory so close he will be to GOD.
You, Sam, are damaging the faith. Your own and the others and are doing exactly what you are telling the people to be aware of, you are making your own cult with your own cultist.
When people break it down like this, when Calvinism is exposed fully like this.....
.... it definitely proves how wicked that belief is. They are clearly, boldly saying God is the author of extreme wickedness and sin. It makes the Devil the hero but only slightly. Only by about 1%. And that is so scary.
I'm glad we have reliable, infallible, preserved scriptures to refute that wickedness.
Glory be to the real God. They worship that makes even satan look like an innocent little girl
The Scripture does not refute the fact that God is the sole author of our salvation -- it teaches it (Heb 12:2). It teaches that we are dead in our transgressions and sins (Eph 2:1-2), because we are born into Adam (Rom 5:12 ff.), and that God must speak light into our hearts (2 Cor 4:6) in order for us to be saved, because the god of this age, Satan, has blinded the minds of unbelievers (2 Cor 4:4), such that the gospel is veiled to them so they cannot understand it (2 Cor 4:3). Since humans are born in such a state, they are objects of God's wrath by their very nature (Eph 2:3).
These are some of the Scriptures which refute the humanistic idea of "free-will", the idea that we have the ability to choose God in our natural state. But we don't, because we are slaves to sin (Rom 6:6), and therefore God must intervene and redeem us (the idea of buying us out of our slavery to sin). Put another way, we believers were "delivered from the dominion of darkness and transferred into the kingdom of the Son of His love" (Col 1:13). It is God who delivers, not we who deliver ourselves. It is God who redeems, not we who redeem ourselves. It is God who chooses us (1 Cor 1:27 ff.), not we who choose God (consider 1 Jn 4:19).
Sam suggests in this video that this Calvinist doesn't have a great answer to the seeming implications of his theology -- specifically, that he can't explain how God can ordain evil and yet not be responsible for evil. But Sam doesn't admit that he is in a similar position. After all, most people throughout history reject Christ and thus are not saved (see Luke 13:23 ff.). Since they are not saved, they will receive the wrath of God in hell (2 Thes 1:9). And of course, since God has foreknowledge He knew this would be the case, and yet He created the world anyways. So He clearly had some priority for creating the world other than His love for human beings, since most of humanity will spend eternity with no experience of God's love, but only His wrath. Yet He created this world anyway. So how is He not responsible for creating this world full of sin and evil, when He saw ahead of time that it would be this way, and created it anyways? Sam can say that God works all things together for good after the fact (his interpretation of Rom 8:28), but this only applies to believers. Most of humanity does not receive good from God, but wrath.
Sam's attack in this video was not, therefore, an attack on Calvinism. It was an attack on the goodness of God in general, and Sam provides no answer to it.
There are things we cannot understand because we are finite. This doesn't necessitate that we reject the clear teaching of Scripture regarding God's grace in salvation. Rather, by faith we trust in the goodness of the God who has brought us into relationship with Him through His Son, by grace. I would like to see Sam treat this brother with some of that grace, rather than treating him so disrespectfully.
@TimWismer - None of your scriptures refute free will.
Just because God made DNA doesn't mean we don't have choices. Just because God made gravity and magnetism doesn't mean we don't have choices. God made everything including our ability to choose. God made the plan of salvation including our ability to choose it. God would not command us to choose if we could not choose. It makes no sense.
If the children of the kingdom in the Old Testament were told to choose in Deut 28 then we can choose. If God put all of mankind in His plan of salvation then that is how He did it. God's Word clearly tells us "it is NOT His will that any are lost" but yet we know some are. That does not void His sovereignty. We are saved or condemned by His Word. Either way, His will is accomplished. If the only place a person can be saved is the place of grace, submission, then that place is determined by His will, His Word. That solidifies His plan, not destroys it. That magnifies His Word, not diminishes it.
If God made everything..... He made the ability for us to choose. Your comment suggests nonsense. It's like saying horse flies negate sunlight. Neither subject even need be aware of the other to be independently fully functioning. The plan continues without pause. God did choose us and We can choose Him. Even when we do not choose Him, He still chose us in His plan.
Mt 24 Jesus said "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that kill the prophets, How I would have gathered you like a hen that gathers her chics under her wings. But you would not...."
Jn 1 "He came unto His own but His own received Him not."
The entire Word of God, cover to cover, destroys Calvinism. None of it supports Calvinism.
@@redfaux74
I agree with some of what you are saying. God's Word is clear that He wants all people to be saved, as you cited. But we also have examples in the Bible of God wanting people NOT to repent. Take Eli's two wicked sons, for example. Eli rebuked them but the Scripture says they couldn't receive the rebuke because it was God's desire to put them to death (1 Sam 2:25). Did God want them to be saved?
Most of the people I see commenting on videos like this and saying that Calvinism is obviously unbiblical are arguing based on their inability to understand how the Bible could affirm one thing, and also affirm something else which seems contradictory. But the real question should be, "does the Bible affirm both?" The Bible does say that God desires all to be saved, but it also says that nobody is capable of turning to God apart from His gracious intervention. If we are dead in sin (Eph 2:2), then we are incapable of responding to the call. If our minds have been blinded (2 Cor 4:4), then we cannot understand the gospel. If we are objects of wrath by our very nature (Eph 2:3), then we cannot change that nature. And if no one seeks God (Rom 3:11), then no one will choose Him.
If the Bible affirms two supposedly contradictory things, then we need to affirm both, even if we cannot understand how both can be true. Both Calvinists and Arminians tend to pick one side or the other, and then ignore Scriptures that challenge their beliefs. But we shouldn't be surprised at our inability to fully comprehend God. Just because we can't understand how what He says is true, doesn't mean we have the right to reject it.
Additionally, I think that you don't understand what free-will actually means. This isn't your fault, since many people misuse the term. The term means that the human will is free from outside influence.
The reality of the human will is that it is NOT free, but is rather a slave to fallen human nature. This is the basic problem, and both the problem and solution are laid out in Romans 6, which says in verses 17-18:
"But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness."
Before salvation, a person is a slave to sin. In other words, they cannot choose against sin, and therefore they cannot choose God. They cannot do anything good (Rom 3:12), they cannot please God in any way (Rom 8:7-8), and they do not seek Him (Rom 3:11). This is all the result of being born in sin because they are descended from Adam (Rom 5:12). This is why verse 17 starts by praising God, because God alone is responsible for Paul's believing audience being "set free from sin", and being made "slaves to righteousness."
One last point. You said that when God tells the Israelites to choose in Deut 28, this indicates that they have the ability to choose. This is a reasonable conclusion, but biblically it is wrong. Joshua, for instance, tells the Israelites to choose who they will serve. When they say they will serve YHWH, he responds, "You are not able to serve the LORD, for He is a Holy God. He is a jealous God. He will not forgive your transgressions or your sins" (Josh 24:19). He tells them to choose, and then tells them they are incapable of doing what they choose to do.
Similarly, God gave the Law to Israel. By your logic, they must have been capable of following it, since God gave it to them and told them to do it. But the New Testament affirms in multiple places that nobody was capable of keeping the Law (e.g. John 7:19). So why would God tell them to do something they were incapable of? In order to reveal to them their inability to do what God requires. "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the Law. Rather, through the law we become conscious of sin" (Rom 3:20; note that Rom 7:7 ff. explains this also). The point of giving them the Law wasn't so that they could keep it, but so that they could "choose" to keep it, and then fail repeatedly so they would understand their inability, and cry out for God's mercy (see Luke 18:13-14).
God commands us, and requires us, to do things which we are incapable of doing. The Old Testament law is an example of this, and so is God's command to believe on Him. But can't we believe in God on our own? No. The New Testament tells us repeatedly that the faith which God requires is not merely belief in His existence (see James 2:19), but is a belief which is given to us by God by grace (Heb 12:2; Rom 4:16; Phil 1:29; James 2:5; Eph 2:8-9; Acts 18:27).
You said previously that the Scriptures I cited don't disprove free-will, so I have shown that the Scripture teaches our inability to seek God, and the necessity for God to give us the thing He requires -- saving faith. On the other hand, there are no verses in the Bible which speak of free-will (except in KJV, where the term simply means "voluntary"). There are no verses which describe our free-will. There are no verses which attribute our salvation to our choice. We can only make choices according to our nature, and the Bible makes it clear that our nature makes us incapable of choosing God. The philosophical concept of free-will is merely man's attempt to make sense of difficult teachings in the Bible. But it is safer to affirm what the Bible teaches, even if it doesn't make sense to us, than to reject it because we can't understand how it could be true. "Let God be true and every man a liar" (Rom 3:4).
@@TimWismer I basically mostly agree with you and what you said but I just caution you a little because I detect a little error and I am not going into every point but you talk about many going to Hell and only few being saved. I believe the this is a gross misunderstanding of Scripture because of a verse Matthew 7:13. I don’t believe that it means what you think it means because of other verses like Genesis 15:5. You can take words and verses and chapters and books of the Bible out of context because the Bible is 66 Books and they do not under any circumstance contradict the rest of the Bible. You have more prayerful studying to do and you will gain greater understanding and you will be better equipped to defend its contents, I think you are doing a reasonable job with the understanding you have but don’t neglect your Bible study please. Abraham was promised descendants as countless as the stars but if you don’t recognise that the human race is not only made up of Adam’s offspring but also Satan’s offspring, your understanding of the Bible will suffer in ignorance, please consider very carefully what Jesus is saying John 8:42-47. Okay. I don’t call myself a Calvinist and I believe I have good reason not to, I believe every Word that comes from The Mouth of God and I believe that people who call themselves Calvinist are my brothers in Christ, my reasons are not the subject of the comment. God continue to Bless you. Believing the Bible doesn’t make you a Calvinist, it makes you a Christian, Calvinist was j one of a countless number.
Sad...calvinists are so caught up with this Calvin heretic. It's so simple...the atonement is universal...but your must BELIEVE to appropriate it. Jesus said "All manner of sin will be forgiven men EXCEPT FOR the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". All sin is forgiven except for the rejection of Jesus. The Spirit is convicting the world of their great sin, the rejection of Jesus as savior and Lord.
So the atonement is universal and it is up to man's choice, ok. Let me ask you this then: do all men have the same exact opportunities to hear the Gospel and to accept Jesus? Did for example the Native Americans in the First Century had the same opportunities to believe in Jesus as the Gentiles in Galilea/North Africa (and then Europe) had? If you say yes then you are a fool and if you say no (as it's obvious) then the question arises spontaneously: who put the Native Americans there and who put the individuals in Galilea instead? Even more broadly speaking who's the One that creates you as you are, with the hearth and mind that you have? And how exactly does God give the same exact opportunity to choose Him or not (because elsewhere it wouldn't be "fair", would it?) given that the context is obviously not the same for every individual?
See, if you actually employ a little of logical thinking instead of the usual emotional diatribe is pretty easy to understand why the concept of a universal atonement doesn't actually work unless you are some sort of open theist. That's why, btw, Molinism was created, to find a philosophical answer to such issues but the problem is that Molinism creates even higher problems of its own, the main one being that the "dealer of the cards" is not anymore God but something else that nobody knows who or what it is, hence making God a subsidiary of His own Creation.
@@lavir74It is implied through scripture that you are to be judged based on what you know. If you happened to be someone that was born where they happened to not hear about christ, he will be judged based on the moral law that was written on his heart. God meets people where they are at because he is all loving and merciful.
@@a.n.1102 Really? So are you an universalist, that thinks that a belief in Jesus is not necessary? I would really like you to justify such a stance from Scripture, because you cannot, as you cannot even remotely live a "moral life" that is sufficient to save yourself (if you think you can then you really don't know your hearth because the Spirit isn't working inside yourself). If you could be righteous by yourself then the death of Jesus would have been completely unnecessary, don't you think? *Nobody* is good but God and nobody can fulfill the law so as to be found righteous in front of a Holy God, nobody (in fact, nobody can even follow the Law of God without God Himself regenerating the hearth).
I'm sorry to tell you this bluntly but I don't think you even understand the Christian message and why Jesus had to die. It's patently obvious that you don't understand that man is dead in sin and what that means. Here, some Scripture for you on the matter:
_“None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; _*_no one does good, not even one._*_ ”_ Romans 3:11-12
_"We have all become like one who is unclean,and _*_all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment._*_ We all fade like a leaf,and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away."_ Isaiah 64:6
_"And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil."_ John 3:19
_"For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God 's law; indeed, it cannot."_ Romans 8:7
I could go on all day quoting verses on man's depravity, especially from Romans.
And YHVH is not just a God of Love, He is also a God of Justice and Wrath, and, above all an Holy God, and holiness cannot cohabit with unrighteousness and evil.
@@a.n.1102 Btw that's why universal atonement makes absolutely no sense if the intent is just to remove God from having any part in who gets saved, since the variables are not the same for every individual and God is the one in control of those variables, making the "free will choice" point completely moot when you actually take some time to really and seriously ponder on the matter. Molinism was created appositely to counteract this but the huge problem of Molinism is that then God is not the one in control of His creation, but He just works with the cards that He has been dealt with, so to speak. Not only that's not the God of Scripture but the real God now becomes casualty under a semi-naturalistic doctrine created by philosophers.
@@lavir74 universalism is satanic. I believe that God meets people where they are at. For example there is one passage where Jesus says that the people who proclaim to have the truth and teach will be more accountable on the day of judgment this means if you have the knowlege and you are researched, you are accountable for the misleading you do but if you are unknowing of God but you are a genuine person at heart who follows the holy spirit within, even if you don't directly know the scriptures, you are going to heaven although not because of your works.
If this is accurate... how can a person with a calvinist believe get mad at anyone? " The person had no choice, God decreed it for them, and they could not fight it! "
Calvinists don't believe that people have no choice. They believe that people's choices are based on their nature, and that their nature is such that they are slaves to sin (Rom 6:6). They also believe that unbelievers are spiritually dead (2:1), and therefore cannot choose God (see also Rom 8:7-8).
Calvinists reject "free will" as something which is never taught in the Bible, but this doesn't mean they reject choice, it just means they reject the idea that you can choose to do something that is contrary to your nature. A person can choose to run, for instance, but he cannot choose to fly (apart from creating a machine). He cannot fly he doesn't have a nature which enables flight. A bird, on the other hand, can choose to fly, but it cannot choose to write poetry. It's nature doesn't allow it. Human beings are born with a sinful nature which they inherited from their first father, Adam (see Rom 5:12-19). This nature makes it impossible for them to choose God, because they are dead in sin. They are free to do many things, but in order to be saved, God must first change their nature (see 2 Cor 4:6). He does this by grace alone (Rom 4:16), because if it was based on their own choice, they could boast before Him. Therefore their salvation is based on God's choice, not theirs (see 1 Cor 1:27-29).
@@TimWismer Thank you for the response. Ome question I have is regarding how Calvinist say everything is ordain by God. I'm litterally listening to a debate right now between Redeem Zoomer ( Calvinist) and Leighton Flowers. And Redeemed Zoomers not only says all your decisions pre ordained by God but you can't go against it. Is he incorrect?
@@TimWismer Even though our original nature wasn't to be sinful?
Everyone believes that the atonement of Christ is limited. Otherwise, all people would be in heaven. Therefore the argument is really, who limits the atonement of Christ? Is it man or is it God?
How sick! What a religion.
Sam’s logic here is unfortunately conflating the work of Christ. It’s convenience for argument sake, but is dishonest. I could do the same thing. :)
Sam rejects once saved always saved, so he is at least a one point calvinist,
he believes in the Perseverance of the Saints to maintain good works to pay the rent on his salvation.
So Calvinists don’t believe in free will?
As Saint Augustine said, the will is free but not freed. Unless God changes our heart, our will will only choose evil.
@@MrShoelessjoej but Sam asked the guy whether or not Isis could change their mind about raping, etc. and the ‘Calvinist’ said no, not if God ordained it. That would imply they had no free will. If they did have free will, they could change their mind about doing evil.
@@Monkneilius Two truths must be reconciled, God is sovereign and we are responsible for our actions.
If God attoned the sin of all people why there are people in hell?
@@reformer-tg8hk First it's important to understand this. The book of Acts is a transitional book that shows the moving of the method of salvation from the Old Testament way to the New Testament method. So after Jesus died and the new way of salvation had been established they went to hell because they did not accept the "free gift" of salvation that Jesus offers that is paid for by his death/blood.
17:43 I’m not sure how you can be so disingenuous and then accuse him of tap dancing and running. Just because you’re right about a topic doesn’t mean you should treat the one who’s wrong on it like less than dirt
The thing is he is not right and his attitude should tell you that without me going into every other reason from Scripture, I have written other comments if you want to take a look, but a comment would have to be very long and have a lot of Biblical references to do the subject justice. GB.
Watch it again. The point Sam made is if determinism is true, Calvinist should accept Sam's rudeness as God's decree and be happy about it.
@@hasimhodzic9649Calvinism is a demonic doctrine
@@swu11 no he wasn’t, he was using that as an excuse for his actions and placating to his audience. Even if that was the point, he has no excuse to do that: “If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a ringing brass gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and I know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I parcel out all my possessions, and if I hand over my body in order that I will be burned, but do not have love, it benefits me nothing… And now these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.”
1 Corinthians 13:1-3, 13
@@BillyBob-sm3ku According to his opponent, anything we do is decreed by God. are you not a Calvinist?
From the very time that I understood TULIP, I have thought is was from the pit of hell, and I still do!
Calvinism is NOT the gospel! Therefore by definition is a different god and NOT the God of the Bible. This is demonic!
Your auto-subtitle is so annoying to someone like us who understands English clearly. 😢
The word many comes from the Greek word poloos, which does NOT mean the whole world. It means abundant or much. Sam closes his eyes to the truth. In Colossians 1:18, the reconciliation is not for the entire world. The latter is a false doctrine called universalism. It is the Church (the all things) that is reconciled. A person cannot believe since each is dead in trespasses and sin until the Spirit of God makes them alive (Ephesians 2:1). Spiritually dead people cannot believe. Faith is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-10). A dead person cannot generate belief in Christ. Belief is given freely as a gift. If you boost and say, "I believe in my own ability," then you have work. The elect are predestined before the foundation of the world to believe in and by the will of God. Romans 9:11-24 discusses God's sovereignty in choosing vessels of mercy and wrath. Yes, God predestined reprobates. "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (affliction, bad, calamity, hurt, harm): I, the Lord, do all these things" (Isaiah 45:7). Sam, you are a very rude, controlling person.
Please name the Greek document you are referring to. And are you sure you didn't mean the word polos which is pronounced poloos?
Are the whole world many people? Or a few people?
@@ChristOverAllJeremyDid Caesar Augustus tax the whole world?
The reason there is a debate over Calvinism and Arminianism is that there are scriptures supporting both.Lets face it,systematic theology has loose ends.Calvinism actually has a stronger case but the so called free will scriptures are also in there.Im about 70% Calvinistic and 30% I don’t know.I just don’t believe we can answer it all and I’m ok with that.A well read so called Reformer would give Sam headaches if he wouldn’t block him beforehand.Sam impresses people who actually are not familiar with ALL scripture,I was a Calvinist for many years but after going through the Bible slowly I realized none of us are going to be able to put God in a box(systematic theology)and figure it all out.But I will say (Let Thy (WiLL)be done on earth as it is in heaven)!!
@@goricaj1 Well if you believe that God chose to save you before you accepted Jesus as your savior. Then you aren't really saved and you'll have a hot time in hell. Because that's not the Gospel.
I enjoy how you use other people's words to put them in submission. The same thing could happen to you; we could cut and splice your reading of truth with ridiculous responses.
I agree with Sam who asked, "Did God decree" the meeting on the phone" with the caller? My answer is yes. Could it be that God wanted Sam to repent of his anger and listen to the context of scripture? "We know that all things work together for good, for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose ", the man on the phone had it correct, but ole Sam here doesn't listen too well, or is it because he's angry about something else regarding God's sovereignty? God does as He pleases and asks for no assistance from any among his creation.
That would mean God is evil and we know he can't be
@@MasterKeyMagic What are you smoking friend? I ask this in total Christian love and and all due respect, of course.
Sam is a universalist and thinks the atonement also applies to Satan. The latter is true, research it. He gets this from Colossians 1:20. If Christ reconciled all things to Himself, then all are saved, which includes Satan. Sam reads the words "if you believe" into the passage. One cannot believe in Christ since we are dead to God in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1). God has to draw you to the Son to believe (John 6:44). Sam becomes emotional and ad hominem and says strong words when someone does not agree with him. In other words, if we do not walk single file behind Sam, we are not right with God.
Sam is a fallible human like all of us. He's not a pope, preist, or bishop, his teachings are not infallible, but he certainly isn't a universalist. Perhaps you have a different definition of the word, in which case I'm interested. It would be foolishness to suggest satan will be saved, since he will never follow God. That being said, I think there are good arguments on both sides of the predestination debate, and I wouldn't condemn anyone who holds either view. If we lie about others, though, our salvation is in jeopardy. God bless!
Sam was talking about humans.
Offspring of ADAM.
I don't believe he is saying Jesus blood redeems the sins of Satan and fallen angels.
Can you give me the source of your accusation.?
Catholics got wrong
7:143 Amen 🧠❤️✝️🫳
🧠🧠🧠🦾⏰️🙏
I see a ton of pride in you, Sam. God hates pride!
Where was the pride he admitted he believed the same thing as the other man admitting to being wrong is humbleness not pride is it not?
This is so basic. He doesn't know the nature of God.
You're right. The sovereignty of God over all things is indeed basic. "God's kingdom rules over all" (Ps 103:19); "All things serve you" (Ps 119:91). God is shown to be sovereign over Satan's activity in Job. God is shown to be sovereign over kings and kingdoms in Daniel (Dan 4, esp. vv. 34 ff.; see also Prov 21:1). He is sovereign over human salvation (Romans 9-11). He chooses the lowly to be saved so that none can boast before Him (1 Cor 1:29 ff.). He is pleased to blind the intelligent (Luke 10:21; 1 Cor 1:21).
Be careful not to confuse the basic teachings that you hear in most churches with the actual teachings of the Bible. They are often two very different things.
I'm still lost as to how this destroys limited atonement - Christ died only for the elected. Maybe someone can help me.
Two things in Colossians 1:19-20 - (1)God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in Jesus. vs 22 - (2)And through HIM to reconcile to himself all things.. by through his blood shed on the cross". God lives 100 percent in HIs son - and reconciles all things through his son - through his blood, his cross - NEVER apart from his son and his cross. There is no reconciliation to God apart from HIs son and His cross. the TWO is HOW God reconciles the world.
Sam is saying - God sent Christ to reconcile the world. but it's only applied to those who come to believe. Doesn't limited atonement say the same thing? Christ blood was shed to save those who continue in the faith. "vs. 23 - If you continue in your faith..."
On the second part I'm totally lost - Nothing can happen without God permitting it. Otherwise, things are happening without God directing it. Are we saying GOD can't limit, direct, stop, or allow the sins in the heart of men to see fruition? Didn't Jesus tell Judas to go do what was in His heart? Just because GOD governs sin doesn't make him the author of it. He governs all things in this world. Am I wrong here?
You hold a sightly different variation of Limited Atonement from the Mainstream ones, they Emphatically deny that Christ died for the WHOLE WORLD, that he died FOR ONLY THE ELECT....we call it the ONLYLITIS VIRUS
No one is saved until they chose to believe. His atonement is for all of creation, there is no limit.
You're forgetting free will. If god decides everything, which obviously he can, then no one has free will. With no free will there is no just judgement, because you have no agency or responsibility. How can the actions of a puppet be just? Do pencils misspell words? Do guns kill people?
If we have a truly free will then why will there be no sinning in heaven. Will we not have the ability to act and act otherwise?
@@MrShoelessjoej wanna know why there will be no sin in heaven? Because you literally don’t have a reason to do so. Here on Earth we have ALOT of problems. Even celebrations what do you do here on Earth? Problems again. Weddings is a celebration, and yet there is a chance for divorce. Birthdays are celebrations and yet you still have to keep dealing with problems. In heaven it is the greatest celebration. And you will sing, dance, and praise God for so long that you have no idea how much time has past.
You've gone too far actually.
Isa 42:1 Jesus Christ is the Elect. If you are in Him, you are elect. If you are dwelling, abiding, staying, continuing in, persevering in, living in The Word of God..... you are elect in Christ, the Word of God in the flesh. John 15 (abiding in the love of God)
Being a follower of Christ is not a random, arbitrary choice. Not by God and not by us. Almighty God gave us a meeting place to find Him. On our knees. Even the quadraplegic, child, poor, rich, elderly, mentally handicapped person can get there and find Him.
Read Isaiah 10
Sam is a clown.
Daaaaaammn mic drop
God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.
Proverbs 16:33; Matthew 17:12; John 19:11; Acts 2:23; Acts 4:27,28; Romans 9:15,18; Romans 11:33; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; James 1:13,17; 1 John 1:5.
"Yeah, I'm gonna go debate Sam Shamoun about Calvinism. Hold my beer."
Sam besides all this can you listen to this song . Larkin poe- black echo. Tell me what you think. Should I listen or cast it aside
Doesn't 1 Corinthians, particularly 2:8, destroy calvinism? Seems there is a choice on our parts.
My friend, I hope all is well with you. I endeavor to change your mind, by using the word of our Lord, and I pray to work by the Spirit to show you the truth of scripture.
Let me first lay out how I understand your argument so I can accurately respond.
Your claim is that 1 Corinthians 2:8 “destroys Calvinism” what I think you mean by this is that when the text says, “if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.” You take that to mean that the men could have chosen to do something differently, thus proving choice, and disproving the absolute decree of God over all things.
Now let me try to refute this argument my friend, doing so in love.
1. Calvinists do not deny that all men have choice, we all make choices every single day of our lives. We claim that because we are slaves of our nature that our choices are subject to our nature, as Christ says in John 8, “everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.”
2. The text does not refute the fact of God’s sovereign decree. The scriptures are very clear on this. Ephesians 1 says that God, “works all things according to the counsel of His will” Romans 8 says, “all things work together for good for those who are called according to His purpose.” Proverbs 16 also says that, “Yahweh has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil.”
3. I do not want to just quote scriptures opposite to your point without directly addressing the text you brought up as well though. God works through our individual choices to fulfill his glorious will, so when it says that if they understood they would not have crucified the Lord, this is true, but it is not saying that they could have done something differently, and I shall show you. Acts 3 Peter says, “You denied the holy and righteous One… (and) put to death the Author of life… and now brothers, I know you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers did also. But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all his prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.” So we see God fulfilled His purpose in Christ’s death through the means of the ignorance of the Jews and the rulers. This is not all Peter says on the subject though, in Acts 4 it says, “For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the gentiles and the people of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.” So even though the men would not have crucified Christ if they understood, they were predestined not to understand.
I hope this finds you well friend. God bless you, peace to you and your house.
@@cole_nielsen wow, you certainly have a gift for doing this, I think you might be better than me, pity we cannot get together and do this, we might make a good team. I do my best but I’m getting old and I’m a bit sceptical and think my comments help people with right understanding already then those who don’t. I have. This is what the Bible says: Matthew 13:12 For whoever has, more will be given to him, and he will have more than enough. But whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. I have watched many debates over the years and I have never seen even one case were the opposite stopped and said,” you are right and we are wrong and I have never seen it in a back and forth in the comments either, the truth is falling on deaf ears, until this post where a so called Calvinist appears to have changed his mind. The Bible calls that changing your mind with every wind of doctrine and says that such a person is unstable. It might have been staged too, you cannot know what to expect these days, so much dishonesty and these people make money from the adds depending upon how many watch them. I’m am warring against false doctrine, in a biblical sense, I am not called to get up in Church to teach, I believe that this is my calling. When I get even one thumbs up, it means that I have reached one person and made a difference.God Bless.
This gentleman is very rude and arrogant. Or scared because he knows he can't disprove God's word.
No matter what he call Calvinism, doctrines of grace, or any other title you give this understanding, it is the truth of God's word.
Any other explanation of soteriology can not stand.
All scripture teaches God's sovereignty over everything! Nothing happens outside His decree! We should worship Him for His saving grace not try to lesson His grace, mercy, and love.
He will be glorified in all things!
To Him be the glory!
P.S. I ask you that you calmly talk to people with respect and dignity, then you wouldn't come across as rude and impatient.
Ps he was decreed. You worship a "god " that would put satan to shame
Your god is evil. The real God is love
Obviously Sam’s example in Romans 3 is wrong. He is attempting to say that the propitiation of sins happens at the time of Christs death and resurrection, and therefore God doesn’t elect until after that. It demonstrates complete misunderstanding of election and he completely ignores Ephesians 1:4. Additionally, by Sam’s logic, everyone who then died before Christs atonement cannot be saved, because they died before Christs propitiation. In true Sam fashion if I were to say read the plain text of John 3:16, “whomever believes in Him should not perish” - so everyone who died before Christ is in hell. Clearly Sam doesn’t understand that Christ is the lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world. (Rev.13:8)
Bad argument with Colossians. If you’re gonna say him creating all things and “him to reconcile all things to himself” are referring to the same “all things” then you’re saying Satan is included in that. Nice try tho.
Not at all. Now you are guilty of obfuscation.
The point he made is in the grammar. "All things" is a generic expression and literally refers to ALL THINGS. In the first passage the context clearly delineates the extent of physical creation.
In the second reference, ALL THINGS is the most universal declaration possible, but the context clearly refers here to the objects of Christ's reconciling death, mankind.
But tell me now, what do you think of Caiaphas' words?
You know nothing at all,
Nor consider that it is expedient for us,
that one man should die for THE PEOPLE,
and that THE WHOLE NATION SHOULD
NOT PERISH
Do you really want to say by any stretch of the imagination that Caiaphas did not really mean
THE WHOLE NATION?
Now clearly Caiphas wanted the death of one man to substitute for the potential slaughter of the ENTIRE NATION. There is no ambiguity to be had in that. No limitations. This is the inalienable and indisputable SENSE (Nehemiah 8:8) of Caiphas words.
Yet the Holy Spirit was pleased to take obvious
THE SENSE (Neh. 8:8) of the ACTUAL SCOPE of his words and apply it literally to the ENTIRE NATION of Israel when referring to the fact that Christ died for their sins. All unbelieving Jews.
And Christ died not merely for the Entire Nation of Israel but also for the sake of His people in all nations.
But here we should observe something:
The APOSTOLIC Rule of Exposition teaches that we should teach using Spirit taught Words not man's wisdom, comparing Scripture with Scripture.
And where possible we should use like passages within the same writer.
Thus John uses the same terminology in
1 John 2:2 where he clearly states:
He is the PROPITIATION not for our sins
only BUT ALSO for the sons of THE WHOLE
WORLD
So Christ died for THE ENTIRE NATION of Israel and also for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD
I love you Sam but you did just over talk him and didn't respect him enough to at least tell you why he believes what he believes. Whether you think he's wrong or not. Which 100% I think he is but you have to understand something Sam, even of you think you know what he's going to say, your listeners like me that want to learn didn't know. Now, that was a missed opportunity for me to learn. Also, how can we do the will of God and lead people to the truth if we are more worried about winning arguments instead of souls? Not a chance that man will change his mind now because it will be associated with you slamming him and kicking the door shut. I understand you're passionate about the word but please, take a few steps back and lead with a little more love next time..
God Bless. Jehovah Shalom, Shalom ✌️
👉📖🪔☝️✝️👑🙏🙌❤️🔥
@user-kp5gx6pp2v You're missing the point. Sam wouldn't even let him talk half the time because SAM "knew what he would say" but we didn't know what he would say. That's my point! Sam wasn't allowing for others to learn from these arguments. He was making it about himself. Think of it like this, What was the point of God asking Adam why he was covered? Did God not know why? Or, Did God already know what he was going to say but the point was for Adam to know what he did wrong? Sorry but Sam may be smart with the Word but he lacks love! Blocking someone because he doesn't like someone is debating in a way that edifys himself? I love Sam because I'm required to but I do not respect him. He's got an Ego that needs to be checked and people need to stop encouraging him. Pride is a sin, he VERY Clearly suffers with it and people like you would rather ignore it and encourage it rather than act in accordance to God's word because he's a good apologist in favor of your views
It is very sad to listen to your rather aggressive form of discussion, which is manipulative and does not give an opportunity for the other to construct a logical argument because you keep interpreting. You may think you are being logical and biblical in presenting your case but you just seem to be railroading your opponent. You may be right in your interpretation, but you have lost the argument and any respect I might have.
It doesn't matter when calvinists argue that God decrees rape. If thats your case then your God is evil. Period
God DECREE from eternity does not means it's going to be subjectively logical.
If God DECREES from eternity it does not negate the fact that man has a free will. We can choose freely whether for good or bad, but at the same time God's providence outweighs all of that because his eternal decrees is for righteousness which will overpower man's free will regardless. God is not confined to humans rationalism. So, Calvinism is really taken out of context. I believe in the teachings that is labeled Calvinist, but it must be properly interpreted.
I totally agree God chooses those who he chooses, because he is God (Ex. 33:19). But that does not mean man is held against their will to choose freely. Isis who chooses to rape is a choice of someone who does not yet believe. God can still decree things for honor and things for dishonor. One man can make decisions that can lead into the Gods blessings while another one makes decisions that leads to God's promise of cursing (Deuteronomy 28).
This free will of man still falls in the PROVIDENCE OF GOD because man is confined to time and space, but God's decree is outside of that. He is righteous and we are not on our own.
Your right on some things Sam, but not all of it. Because if God gave you all of the answer than you should be Jesus.
I believe we take terms to the extreme and don't realize that God's truth is revealed in his creations. We can see God's truth revealed in bits and pieces of all different religions and beliefs but not entirely in those specific beliefs.
That's why scriptures teaches that we rightly divide the word of truth. We can't just say, "hey your wrong and they are right" because there is truth that can be discovered in every thing God created. So don't let the mistakes of others along with your misunderstanding of things cause you to overlook the hidden truths within it, ALL TO JUST PROVE YOUR EGO AND ARROGANCE. THUS GOES FOR EVERYONE.
Calvinism has truth in it, if you would only see it through the lens of scriptures. It's spiritual and scriptural not debatable. We can't debate away truth to make content on RUclips. Because truth is absolute and objective. We need to distinguish eternity from earthly life which is limited. Our rationalism is limited and we can entertain ourselves with our own knowledge which proves our sinful and fallen nature. That's where Calvinism teaches the total depravity of man. We need Jesus' for that renewal. Being elect is not confined to God choosing who will do good in the future, but it's according to what he decrees from eternity for his purpose. So let's not confined eternal decree to our subjective understanding of the word we created in this world. His purpose of eternal decree is on the basis of his purpose and will, not ours. Did God know that the Jews would kill Jesus? Of course. Did God will it for them to be evil and kill Jesus? No! They chose freely to do it because of sin. At the same time, their free will to be evil, still fell into the providence of God to crucify Jesus which in turned was necessary for the atonement of our sins. Will everybody accept this? NO!!!!! Did God know that everyone will not accept his gift of salvation? YES!!!!!! So we can say he decreed it for his purpose not ours. It's our free will that is evil and separates us from God and we see that in the Garden of Eden. That's the teachings of the Bible, which some says it's Calvinism. Like I said, people take things to the extreme and totally mis the point. And that we can say is eternally decreed. Our limited minds have limited access and understanding but we can still get a glimpse of the truth if we just look hard enough.
Glory to God. 18:57 18:57
Acts 8:30-31
As an Arminian, I didn't know Calvin taught unlimited atonement but limited in efficacy from the person's choice. Thanks Sam.
I believe that you are wrong, Jesus came as a human, not an Angel or any other creature, He died as a man, offspring of Eve, Son of Adam. I don’t think you are seeing the whole picture. John 8:44, Jesus Words,” The father whose sons you are is the Devil, those He was addressing were not sons of Adam, Adam is not the Devil. Jesus said, I have come to seek and to save the lost: Luke 19:10. Now if God goes to all that trouble, don’t you think He will succeed. Limited means limited to what is Adam’s offering. Limited Atonement is just meaning limited to humans, those He came to save, if people go to Hell, then they are not the ones that He came to Save. Can God fail in what He came to do? Of course not John first chapter should put an end to man having any say in who God saves. All Scripture is God Breathed and is necessary, man does not live on bread alone but by EVERY Word that proceeds from The Mouth of God. Good you know your scriptures but if you let it go to your head, you become blind to certain truths. No verse or chapter or book of the Bible stands alone, don’t miss the overall message. Don’t dismiss me as a Calvinist because I am NOT. I believe every word of the Bible and it says we are Predestined and that doesn’t make God subject to man and nothing else should be read in either, I didn’t learn anything from Calvin and I can tell you from Scripture why people should not call themselves a Calvinist either. One thing about the Bible, it hasn’t changed and it still says what it always has said from New Testament until now. Whatever Calvin or anyone else got, they got from studying from the Bible, so why go to them for what the Bible teaches when we already have God’s Word.
hmmm... redemtion of all creatures? does this apply to fallen angels since fallen angels are part ot the creation. If it is not limited, does it apply for them too?
Sam's inability to listen to others make their points and then rebutting the point makes me wonder if he is incapable of doing so. Maybe he's afraid someone may challenge his perspective and he won't be able to answer with a legitimate point. Listen to others then respond unless you're afraid; this is the Islamic tactic when defending their false profit or their evil religion...
Nothing wrong with with Sam doing so if you’re Calvinist. Remember God decreed.
Sam was talking about specific scriptures and didn't want to get sidetracked.
Can you imagine you're at work? You are the bakery manager, and a customer walks in and just wants to talk to you ALL day about concrete?
"Excuse me for interrupting you sir, but are you here to order an apple pie, cake or some bakery item? I don't know what you are talking about, but I have a business to run."
He clearly showed this man, in a decent period of time, without nonsense, that there is nothing for them to agree on. No reason at all for them to be talking further. Case closed. He was polite, firm, but polite.
God has decreed that Sam would interrupt, complain to your god as to why he did that.
I am shocked!!!! Stay away from calvanism Please.
Notice how Sam only wanted a yes or no out of him and wouldn’t let him speak after that. That’s because there’s very good answers from the Calvinist position and Sam didn’t want anyone to hear them. Sam is only in this to win debates and boost his ego.
The biggest irony of Calvinism continues to be this:
Calvinists don’t realize that, if their system is as true as they say it is, then every single person who rejects Calvinism does so because God decreed it, and they lack any free will ability to do otherwise.
Thus, when Calvinists get angry at us for rejecting Calvinism, they’re really just angry at (apparently) God’s Sovereign Decree.
Of course, Calvinists completely re-define Sovereignty to mean “determining all things,” so maybe that’s the issue.
God is wicked if he created wicked people to go to hell without the ability to come to faith!
Well he didn't, so God is not wicked.
Does God have exhaustive knowledge of everything and everyone? Does God know who will for sure not belive in Him, thus will go to hell? Does God not know all of this infallibly without doubt? Yet He still created the person who He knows will never believe? If you say yes to any of that, then that person was born/created with zero chance of believing. Free will does not give anyone a pass, they all have the same problems they claim Calvinism has.
There’s no way calvinism is from our lord no way a almighty perfect moral god would force people to do evil don’t u dare disrespect him like that, we do evil, not our father/son/spirit
@@IsraelGuzman-w7d nuts.
No Calvinist believes God forces anyone to do evil.
Sam for the last couple of months that one of your prey is one of many praying for the effectiveness of the Holy spirit through you. I certainly hear your prey answer your conduct has certainly changed when I compare your previous debates. In conclusion many of us are learning good sound doctrine not that we haven't before but we all can hear it on another level, to God be the glory amen.
People please do NOT take what Sam says as gospel truth ! Read your Bible for yourself ! There is no universal salvation
@harleymann2086ya ya Catholic Church? Vatican 2? Vatican 1? Stop it Filioquest schismatic
“For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.”
Colossians 1:16-20 ESV
Just to clarify, He dies for all, and only those who choose Him will be saved. This part of scripture destroys Calvinism.