You have verified an idea that came to me in the middle if the night. It involves a boundary layer cage like that. Very ingenuitive use of material too. Thanks for this video and your time spent :)
I love the idea and have made a few small turbines for myself ( out of soda cans ) they do go incredibly fast but have very little torque so the uses are limited somewhat. Having said all of that though , I do have an idea using a large one of these and if I am a good boy and am allowed to set up a lathe in the garage I will attempt to put my idea into action. No start-up date imminent but when I do get the lathe, I will start posting vids on RUclips. Keep seeking everyone, keep learning Life is amazing and is full of magic!
Though I would say this design is less efficient since the ratio of drag developed on the outer casing in ratio on the moving surface is much higher than in the bladed design which I would guess might net in a loss in efficiency.
If you were to modify this to operate off of high pressure steam, would it be better to make the static cylinder superhydrophic so that the water isn't slowed down by adhering to the static cylinder?
If you use super critical steam and keep the engine very hot then you have a very powerful closed cycle engine that only reduces the temperature of the sc-steam by a small amount as it passes through the engine, this means that it takes much less energy to get the steam to maintain a super-critical state. Super-critical steam is dry and invisible, it will set a piece of wood on fire in less than a second, so it would leave no moisture behind in the engine. The pressures of sc-steam can be very high 1000 psi and up, this creates a very powerful engine with little to no noise due to the lack of blades, pistons and the rest. This is just how I personally would build the steam system for this engine.
+cofferdamn do you mean grooves to add surface area to the roller, like along a specific axis? Or are you suggesting a rifled type groove that follows a spiral?
what about the air flow resistance against the outer cylinder and if i understand the principle of the Tesla turbine isn't the air flow supposed to accelerate as it spins inward there by transferring more energy.
Very interesting! Have you tried applications involving a small portable compressor in a vehicle with this? How much pressure would you need to push a go kart up to 45 mph?
fluid dynamics being more or less equal... I wonder if it's possable to make "hydraulic ram pump" to pump AIR from essentially wind power to power a device like this. given the inlet hole is SO SMALL. yes I understand that hydraulic ram pumps generally use gravity and you don't get the same effect with air from gravity but I meant to offer a vague concept to work from just to toss out some ideas asd get the creative juices flowing.
This sounds a bit like how the aero-turbine (aero exhaust) muffler works. Perhaps they were following Tesla's idea. I built their website back before they closed their doors but I didn't find out very much about the origins of the idea.
Very Cool! Layman's question. If you were to use a ribbed surface on the interior spindle, would that increase torque, or would you reach a point of diminishing return? Hmm, I think I may have just answered my own question... It would inhibit the corkscrew flow, wouldn't it... And even if the ribs were curved themselves, you would reach a maximum velocity based on the limit of the psi, right?
Ribs are actually detrimental to a tesla turbine as they introduce turbulence. A tesla turbine works because of surface adhesion and fluid viscosity. Basically it works because a fluid wants to stick to a solid and viscosity keeps the fluid's molecules from pulling apart. Ribs will cause the molecules to pull apart. While this is clearly working on the boundary layer (surface adhesion and viscosity) principles, it's not a traditional tesla turbine design. It is very cool though!
Zenman Energy what if instead of raise ribs...he was to mill small slits ( i'm talking about just deeper than a mere scratch) in the cylinder at an angle that would direct the air toward the open end ...put about 10 slits in...would this help and give more torque as the air would have something to push against
I guess if the slits were cut in a similar manner as a screw, then it's possible. But... to do that you have to figure out what the optimal spiral is. That spiral changes based on the operating speed. The faster the fluid moves, the tighter the spirals. So by cutting slits (in this design) it would only be optimized for a single speed. Going faster and going slower than that optimal speed would likely create turbulence. By having it perfectly smooth the fluid can change speeds and change the length and angles of the spirals without introducing turbulence. Even if you run it at the optimal speed for the slits, I don't think we're talking about an enormous difference in performance. If you cut grooves deep enough to double the surface area, the same results could be achieved by doubling the length of the tube. Of course, I'm just wildly guessing. This is certainly a cool concept and I LOVE seeing Tesla Turbine research, Although I'm still partial to just trying to mimic Tesla's design as closely as possible and getting these damn turbines in the field.
You know... one thing a Tesla Turbine can do that bladed turbines cannot do is handle crap in the fluid. (literal and figurative crap that is!) As crazy as it sounds a bladed steam turbine will eventually explode if there are water droplets in the steam. A Tesla turbine has no problem with that. Take it up a notch and consider what would happen to a bladed turbine if the steam were carrying sand or even rocks. A Tesla turbine has no problem with sand and rocks in the steam. Why does this matter? We could create electricity ANYWHERE in the world, 24 hours a day by drilling two deep holes into the earth (about 1-2 miles deep depending on the location). One hole injects liquid water, it travels through fissures heating up to steam and comes out of the second hole as steam. The problem is it brings sand and rocks with it. That destroys bladed turbines. But if we used Tesla Turbines instead it would work fine.
Salam, How much PSI is required? What I am wondering is if we can take them 12v portable car air pumps and then power it. Then use its rotation to get electricity.
The friction between outher wall, wich is fixed, and air, will reduce the efficiency with 50 procent. Try to make a turbine rotor with two concentric cilinders with a small gap beween them, no fixed outher wall, and inject pressurised air tangent at one end of the rotor. I think this will improve the efficiency.
would natural wind beable to power this (just asking because the whol eis small) so if it needs air pumped into it how much energy would be used to power it and how mych energy would it create. becasue to see who effient it is i bet they wuld subtract the energy needed to the energy created???? might not know what im talking about but im just carious???
+cliff woodbury a original tesla turbine is said to be 97.8% by tesla himself, but the persons who tested it said it was not that much and told hime the efficiency to be 97%.
wouldn't you just have to attach a generator, realizing how much energy you can produce by plain forward momentum, either generated by windspeed or water-speed, see what the continuous consumption of that electric motor is to propel you forward at a desired speed, and than just multiply those Mini turbines in order to meet the continuous electricity need of that electric motor? It would be interesting to see how this scales up for large-horsepower electrical motors, their continuous usage and the kWh you could produce with harvesting the wind or water velocity of forward momentum?
this model whil work much much better with disks, the real power comes from the prissure created between the disks, disks with hole or scores in them this is still a very brillant idea
+MrTeslonian You should get credit for your interesting variation of Tesla's turbine. While it isn't made up of discs, it still works on the basis of adhesion and viscosity. Toroids are tied into everything in nature. Check out the lilly impeller. Everything significant started out the same way your turbine did. Keep it up.
Ok now go build the variant and post a video link. If this affects rpm the way I think it will you could create a turbine with a changing shape to vary rpm without changing pressure.
Looks as if this design would be more practical, if the pressurized air were to come from a type of "ram" force, say from an inlet located on the front or side of a nose cowling?
You have verified an idea that came to me in the middle if the night. It involves a boundary layer cage like that. Very ingenuitive use of material too. Thanks for this video and your time spent :)
might have been nice to see a tachometer reading.
any Followup on this design?
I love the idea and have made a few small turbines for myself ( out of soda cans ) they do go incredibly fast but have very little torque so the uses are limited somewhat. Having said all of that though , I do have an idea using a large one of these and if I am a good boy and am allowed to set up a lathe in the garage I will attempt to put my idea into action.
No start-up date imminent but when I do get the lathe, I will start posting vids on RUclips.
Keep seeking everyone, keep learning Life is amazing and is full of magic!
Much like the pressure maintaining the really small gap between the read head and a computer disk drive.
its samthing new, and mayby better version of Tesla turbine .thank you for work
Not nearly enough surface area. However, a very nice and creative demonstration of the operating principle. Great work!
I am wanting to duplicate the clear tube. What did you have the oven set too? Any more detail on that did you plastic weld the seam
don't Tesla turbines need to vent through the center of each disk?
+SHADOWxWOLF This works by the same principle just in a different way.
Though I would say this design is less efficient since the ratio of drag developed on the outer casing in ratio on the moving surface is much higher than in the bladed design which I would guess might net in a loss in efficiency.
If you were to modify this to operate off of high pressure steam, would it be better to make the static cylinder superhydrophic so that the water isn't slowed down by adhering to the static cylinder?
That sounds logical to me, good idea!
If the engine was kept very hot so the steam would remain steam, then it would not be cool enough to condensate in the engine.
Yes, but wouldn't there still be drag between the steam and the static cylinder even if it doesn't condense?
Pressure is the working force not moisture.
If you use super critical steam and keep the engine very hot then you have a very powerful closed cycle engine that only reduces the temperature of the sc-steam by a small amount as it passes through the engine, this means that it takes much less energy to get the steam to maintain a super-critical state. Super-critical steam is dry and invisible, it will set a piece of wood on fire in less than a second, so it would leave no moisture behind in the engine. The pressures of sc-steam can be very high 1000 psi and up, this creates a very powerful engine with little to no noise due to the lack of blades, pistons and the rest. This is just how I personally would build the steam system for this engine.
i recomend a drum such as this with machined grooves as if they were false disk to a certain depth but still remainds a drum over all
+cofferdamn do you mean grooves to add surface area to the roller, like along a specific axis? Or are you suggesting a rifled type groove that follows a spiral?
what about the air flow resistance against the outer cylinder and if i understand the principle of the Tesla turbine isn't the air flow supposed to accelerate as it spins inward there by transferring more energy.
Very interesting! Have you tried applications involving a small portable compressor in a vehicle with this? How much pressure would you need to push a go kart up to 45 mph?
fluid dynamics being more or less equal... I wonder if it's possable to make "hydraulic ram pump" to pump AIR from essentially wind power to power a device like this. given the inlet hole is SO SMALL.
yes I understand that hydraulic ram pumps generally use gravity and you don't get the same effect with air from gravity but I meant to offer a vague concept to work from just to toss out some ideas asd get the creative juices flowing.
The question is can this type be applied to any kind of work load?
Very interesting and I hope to see more of this type.
scarmenl Is this how a jet engine works? There are a number of films emerging about no fuel and free energy and airplanes.
Wondering if it would work differently if there was a suction instead of air flowing
This sounds a bit like how the aero-turbine (aero exhaust) muffler works. Perhaps they were following Tesla's idea. I built their website back before they closed their doors but I didn't find out very much about the origins of the idea.
Very Cool! Layman's question. If you were to use a ribbed surface on the interior spindle, would that increase torque, or would you reach a point of diminishing return? Hmm, I think I may have just answered my own question... It would inhibit the corkscrew flow, wouldn't it... And even if the ribs were curved themselves, you would reach a maximum velocity based on the limit of the psi, right?
Ribs are actually detrimental to a tesla turbine as they introduce turbulence. A tesla turbine works because of surface adhesion and fluid viscosity. Basically it works because a fluid wants to stick to a solid and viscosity keeps the fluid's molecules from pulling apart. Ribs will cause the molecules to pull apart.
While this is clearly working on the boundary layer (surface adhesion and viscosity) principles, it's not a traditional tesla turbine design. It is very cool though!
Thanks for the lesson!
Zenman Energy what if instead of raise ribs...he was to mill small slits ( i'm talking about just deeper than a mere scratch) in the cylinder at an angle that would direct the air toward the open end ...put about 10 slits in...would this help and give more torque as the air would have something to push against
I guess if the slits were cut in a similar manner as a screw, then it's possible. But... to do that you have to figure out what the optimal spiral is. That spiral changes based on the operating speed. The faster the fluid moves, the tighter the spirals. So by cutting slits (in this design) it would only be optimized for a single speed. Going faster and going slower than that optimal speed would likely create turbulence. By having it perfectly smooth the fluid can change speeds and change the length and angles of the spirals without introducing turbulence.
Even if you run it at the optimal speed for the slits, I don't think we're talking about an enormous difference in performance. If you cut grooves deep enough to double the surface area, the same results could be achieved by doubling the length of the tube. Of course, I'm just wildly guessing.
This is certainly a cool concept and I LOVE seeing Tesla Turbine research, Although I'm still partial to just trying to mimic Tesla's design as closely as possible and getting these damn turbines in the field.
You know... one thing a Tesla Turbine can do that bladed turbines cannot do is handle crap in the fluid. (literal and figurative crap that is!) As crazy as it sounds a bladed steam turbine will eventually explode if there are water droplets in the steam. A Tesla turbine has no problem with that. Take it up a notch and consider what would happen to a bladed turbine if the steam were carrying sand or even rocks. A Tesla turbine has no problem with sand and rocks in the steam.
Why does this matter? We could create electricity ANYWHERE in the world, 24 hours a day by drilling two deep holes into the earth (about 1-2 miles deep depending on the location). One hole injects liquid water, it travels through fissures heating up to steam and comes out of the second hole as steam. The problem is it brings sand and rocks with it. That destroys bladed turbines. But if we used Tesla Turbines instead it would work fine.
Salam,
How much PSI is required?
What I am wondering is if we can take them 12v portable car air pumps and then power it. Then use its rotation to get electricity.
The friction between outher wall, wich is fixed, and air, will reduce the efficiency with 50 procent. Try to make a turbine rotor with two concentric cilinders with a small gap beween them, no fixed outher wall, and inject pressurised air tangent at one end of the rotor. I think this will improve the efficiency.
do you take any apprentice students ? I would love to study under your guidance
I would like to know this too
How much pressure can u get if u pumped water thru it.
For propelling a boat?
U can improve speed and flow of air look the two three piece of metal/aluminum can be changed to blades focusing air one way
Need to test it with load to see if it will cause vibration?
would natural wind beable to power this (just asking because the whol eis small) so if it needs air pumped into it how much energy would be used to power it and how mych energy would it create. becasue to see who effient it is i bet they wuld subtract the energy needed to the energy created???? might not know what im talking about but im just carious???
+cliff woodbury a original tesla turbine is said to be 97.8% by tesla himself, but the persons who tested it said it was not that much and told hime the efficiency to be 97%.
When you building a squittel cage (VAWT) out of that toner wheel ? lol
wouldn't you just have to attach a generator, realizing how much energy you can produce by plain forward momentum, either generated by windspeed or water-speed, see what the continuous consumption of that electric motor is to propel you forward at a desired speed, and than just multiply those Mini turbines in order to meet the continuous electricity need of that electric motor? It would be interesting to see how this scales up for large-horsepower electrical motors, their continuous usage and the kWh you could produce with harvesting the wind or water velocity of forward momentum?
this model whil work much much better with disks, the real power comes from the prissure created between the disks, disks with hole or scores in them this is still a very brillant idea
Great video thank you for sharing
have you tested this as a pump in reverse?
This gives me pause to wonder how changes in geometry would effect performance. Imagine this as a cone or a toroid.
+Ron Armstrong Finally an interesting comment, I like the idea of the cone shape do to the shape of a vortex.
+MrTeslonian You should get credit for your interesting variation of Tesla's turbine. While it isn't made up of discs, it still works on the basis of adhesion and viscosity. Toroids are tied into everything in nature. Check out the lilly impeller. Everything significant started out the same way your turbine did. Keep it up.
Ok now go build the variant and post a video link. If this affects rpm the way I think it will you could create a turbine with a changing shape to vary rpm without changing pressure.
awesome as always
What is your job? Just a little curious...
Vir sapit qui pauca loquitor tenax propositi.
He works at a "plant". I think petrochemical
I guess it can't be as efficient as you have a lot of air drag on the tube's surface which Tesla's turbine doesn't.
Awesome! I love it!
what to do to get high torque?
So air pressure spins a drum? What's innovate about thst?
thanks for your ideas. this is not a tesla turbine but i see you have some ideas to play with. tesla turbines can get 30000 + rpm
+andrew cravalho Saw a mini one doing over 80,000 rpm a couple days ago on here.
Looks as if this design would be more practical, if the pressurized air were to come from a type of "ram" force, say from an inlet located on the front or side of a nose cowling?
This is a 'drum' model?
Look up stators make the air multiply
with small port holes of coarse
static electricity generator
That would make a bitchin sander.
Keith Robicheux It is pretty low torque.
Awesome!
Please I hard need anergy please help me
Could cars run on this?
If Nikola Tesla was still alive the world would be better place to leave if he had his own way.
very interesting!!