I took a new Mitsubishi for a test drive in the mid 90's. I asked the salesman riding with me if the car had anti-lock brakes. He said it did. I was going about 60 mph and decided to give the ABS a test. I stomped on the brake pedal and discovered that the car did NOT have ABS. The wheels locked up, the tires screamed, the car fishtailed and I almost crashed. Scared the crap out of the salesman. I didn't buy the car but maybe I taught one salesman not to lie.
Former car salesman here: I would reccomend NEVER buying a used car through a dealer, and ALWAYS using Costco or some other prenegotiated program when buying new. Additionally, bring a calculator (seriously), and go line by line (there should only be a few lines) adding up and questioning each charge that then brings you to your total price. You should only pay the prenegotiated price, plus the fees legally required (tax/title/etc). No rustproofing/pinstriping/floormats/bs. And finally, go to a credit union (or bank if you can't help it) and get a loan (in the form of a cashier's check) for the full price of the car. Then go back to the dealer and exchange the check for the title to the car. When you're done you'll know you got a good price, and your finances are going to be predictable.
I actually had a dealer take back a used car. I made sure that the contract said that they would pay for repairs within the first 30 days or they would take it back. I took the car to another dealer who sold that car and asked them to inspect it, because I was concerned about it's performance and some oil leaks. Turned out that this $5000 car needed about $4000 in repairs. So I took their estimate back to the dealer and said they could either fix it or take the car back. They weren't happy, but they did take it back and I got all my money back. This was in NJ, about 20 years ago
I'm was in the used car sales business for 8 years and can confirm Steve's statements. I however, never lied but also didn't make as many car sales at others. My policy was honesty and low or no pressure !
The guy shouldn't have asked "Does your truck have the 3.73 gears?" He should have asked "What is the gear ratio?" The sales guy will say whatever will bring the guy across the state. The other option is to figure out what RPM the engine should be turning at highway speed with the different ratios. There may be a code on the door tag that has the axle code. I feel for our truck buying hero but it seems like he was very diligent about figuring what to buy but not diligent about making sure what he was buying was what he wanted. Even if the sales guy had the best intentions he may not really understand what he's looking at.
I got a car to go back to the dealer (almost)! I am WAY late in seeing this video, but I only discovered the channel recently. The videos have been GREAT! Very entertaining and informative. The TL;DR version: got such a good deal the dealer called me to buy my car back! In about 2002 I wanted to check out some Firebirds/Camaros with my wife. She had never been in one, and I had owned 3 over the years. I had no intent on buying. We went to the GM dealer and asked to check one out. They were very gracious, especially since I opened with "I'm not looking to buy today." The salesman showed us a 98 Trans Am Firebird. It was nice. Nothing special other than being a TA. They let us take it out for a drive, with the salesman in the back. Although thats not my preference, it was what they wanted. My intent was to get onto it a bit and impress my wife. I was 29 at the time, amd she was 32 so hot rodding a Trans Am wasn't as harsh as when I was 18! We did some high speed runs on the interstate and a few quick corners. The salesman was trying to sell me on the car talking about the "manliness" of the Firebird, and that my wife probably wont be allowed to drive it. As you can inagine that set her off! I noticed. But I wasnt planning on buying so I didn't care. We get back to the lot and he pops the hood and says "with this V6 you'll save a lot on gas too." I look and count in my head 1,2,3,4,5,6...7,8. "Yep. That v6 will be great" Then he goes through the song and dance of "lets get you in this car." "Why not", I think. The salesman comes at me with a price that is high for a Firebird but in the decent range for a Trans Am. I had done my research because I had considered buying one, but declined since we were planning on starting a family. Since my wife was angry with the guy, I figured I'd pretend to negotiate then leave after an hour or so. Well, the negotiations went as they usually do: long, drawn out, and adversarial. But I really had no dog in the fight. I was there to waste his time at that point. But then... Oh yes then, they came back with a number BELOW the KBB trade in value for a Trans Am and probably a good number for a baseline Firebird. Well, how could I NOT take that deal. So, I did. And made them buy us dinner at the Italian restaurant that's not Olive Garden. Three days later I get a call early in the morning. It's the dealership. They want to talk to me about my Trans Am because "they have been directed by the boss to increase their Trans Am inventory. They want to buy my Trans Am. Well, I don't mind flipping a car that I have no emotional attachment to, so off to the dealer I go. So talking with the sales manager, I ask about the salesman that sold me the car. He didnt work there anymore. The sales manager then made an offer on my car. Two thousand less than I paid. I countered with the high end of KBB dealer price. The sales manager visibly backed up and gasped! Great actor! He said "you only paid $10,800," (I think that was the number. It was several years ago) "we're not buying it from you for 18,000!" "Well", I said, "that's my price. Or we can trade straight across for a 98 or newer Durango." (the vehicle I really wanted) We negotiatied on the trade, but I wouldnt accept anything they offered. None of the deals were even close to fair on my end. Ultimately I walked away and kept the car. Six months later, I found another dealership that was willing to trade straight accross for a 98 Durango. So, it may be a unicorn. But it has happened! And, being a packrat, I may even have some of the paperwork in a drawer somewhere. Thanks for a Great show Steve, and to the commenters: thanks for the great comments. This has to be the calmest comment section on The Tube!
This is why I'm very happy with the part of Swedish law that states that (loosly translated and shortened), if someone enters an agreement by giving false information or omitting information, and that information could be assumed to be relevant for the agreement, that agreement is void.
We have allowed people to lie so often, we just say to bad. Nobody's held accountable. Even in courts Under perjury of law???? They "mispoke" Politicians, salesman, the list gets bigger all the time.. Can anyone add to the list😛😛
This reminds me when I was signing for my house. The paperwork is huge. I was at the title agency, realtor sitting across from me and a title agent there too. As I was flipping pages there was this random line that said something about $100 being available or whatnot, I was curious because I had known about the good faith payment and all these other costs and I had never heard the price of $100 mentioned before, so I asked about it. No one knew -- not the realtor or the agent who worked at the title company -- I thought it was a bit like the twilight zone where I'm signing papers I don't understand and no one else did either.
I know this is an older Video but Steve...I got a dealer to buy a used car back :D My wife visited our local Ford Dealership in early 2015 to buy a NEW car, the dealer talked her into buying a used 2014 Ford Fiesta, the dealer said it had 9000 Miles on the clock (this was also on their website ad for that car), and a clean "carfax", one owner no abuse etc, and that it was a finance return hence the low mileage. But they didn't show her the carfax report (turns out they didn't actually have one), and when she took it for a test drive the dash display was set to the average Mpg and she didn't even think to change display. During the sale they had her sign everything, but at no point did they give her anything with the actual mileage on it, the papers she was given when she came home had a handwritten note for the actual mileage (we discovered this LATER) which was added AFTER she signed the papers. Well she had it maybe 2 weeks, I drove it as mine was in the shop for something. I changed the dash display to show the actual Mileage ( play with buttons in a new car, it's just a thing I do), it actually had almost 30000 miles on it, I lifted the hood and the Aluminum engine block had some pretty significant corrosion on it, I pulled a Carfax report, which showed it was previously a Hertz Rental that had been in NJ during the Hurricane, and had salt water flood damage and was an insurance writeoff. We went into the dealer, they Laughed and told us "no take backs". They actually admitted at that time that they had no idea it was insurance writeoff due to flood damage as they bought it from an auction, and that they had been using the car as an office runaround and when they bought it, it did in fact have 9000 miles on it and they put the other 20000 on it. I called a local Lawyer (who is also a friend), we showed him all the papers they gave my wife (this is when we discovered the after the fact handwritten mileage), he called the dealer, did his legal thing, they called me less me than 30 mins after they got off the phone with him and told us to take the car back to them, they gave us a full refund. :D
Hey Steve, back in the 70s my mom worked for the city of Long Beach, ca. She worked processing senior citizens complaints, about car dealerships, the largest one in Long Beach in particular, over 2,500 complaints per year, which the main complaints were about misleading or lying to sell the car, I had a friend who was a world champion boxer, after his boxing career was over, he became a car salesman, he made out well because of being famous people came to buy cars just to see him, he told me if you want to hold your job u will say things to sell cars, that's the main reason, EITHER U SELL CARS OR FIND ANOTHER JOB. !!! most salesmen are on commission. Thanks William
In Minnesota I bought a new Oldsmobile that had sat on the showroom floor for most of the model year. The tires 'thumped' during a test drive. Salesman & FINANCE manager agreed to replace the tires if the thumping didn't stop. The finance manager wrote that on the sales agreement. Thumping didn't go away. The SERVICE manager wouldn't replace the tires. I refused to move my new car from their service bay. Service manager still refused. I overheard someone say the dealership owner was in the building, which seemed to panic the employees. I told the service manager that I was going to the owner's office to talk to him. The service manager stopped me in my tracks and agreed to replace the tires. I could see that he was seething with anger, but he did replace all four tires. This was a Cadillac and Oldsmobile dealership and I was buying one of the last Oldsmobile cars they had. Fortunately the finance manager wrote it on the sales agreement and it was also fortunate for me that all employees seemed to panic when they heard the owner was in the building. I wonder which reason caused the service manager to replace the tires?
Years ago I went to a dealership to look at a truck. They let me take it for the night to test drive and said I was approved for credit. They told me they would speak with other banks in the morning to get me a better deal, if possible. I took the truck out on the highway and floored the accelerator (who doesn't) and noticed the RPM's went up, but my speed didn't. I noticed the truck did the same thing again twice that night The next morning I went back and asked them about the transmission. The saleswoman stated there had been a minor problem with it before and they replaced the whole transmission. (Red flag #1-- a business doesn't make money by spending more than necessary) I asked if they did the work in their own service bay using GM parts. She stated that they did. I said "Ok, I'll take the truck IF you can give me an extended warranty on the transmission covering parts and labor, since you guys did the work and it's a brand new transmission." She goes to a manager and comes back and says "Ok, we can do that." Just then, someone walks in and says there was an issue with my credit and the bank and they can't make the deal work. I ask what if I trade in my car and bring the cost down $10k. She says no. I ask "What if I give you my 10k trade in and give you another 10k in cash?" She again declines, on a 25k truck. She then tries to sale me another model. I could have got credit from another source, paying them outright, but the lies and deceit disgusted me.
I worked as a mechanic at a dealership. There were some cars on the lot that the salespeople were only to sell with an aftermarket warranty. If the customer didn't want to buy the warranty we wouldn't sell them the car. That way the warranty company ends up paying for the engine or transmission. Not the dealership.
Steve Lehto, I have a wonderful story about a car purchase I made in the 80's. I purchased a used 1978 Ford LTD in 1982. I was on the used car lot when the vehicle was delivered. It had just been traded in for a new vehicle purchase by another customer. The salesman said they needed to go through the vehicle and check it out before I could buy it. I told the salesman if they even washed the vehicle I would not buy it or any vehicle from them. I convinced him to allow my wife and I to test drive the vehicle. We drove it and loved the vehicle it drove like a new vehicle. The only problem we found was the a/c would not blow cold air. When we got back on the lot I told the salesman about the a/c being broken. We discussed the price of the vehicle and agreed on a price. I told the salesman I would only agree to purchase the vehicle if they fixed the a/c. The salesman said he could not make that decision but the Sales Manager could. We went to the Sales Manager and presented to him my offer. The Sales Manager said he would only agree to have the a/c shop put Freon in the system. I insisted that be put in the sales agreement. The Sales Manager inadvertently wrote FIX A/C. I purchased the vehicle and immediately brought it to the a/c shop 6 miles away. When the a/c shop manger spoke with me. I told him to fix my a/c. He said they normally do not fix the a/c only charge it with Freon. I showed him the agreement with the work order Fix A/C. I stated I request the a/c fix as part of the agreement. I said the Sales Manager wrote the Fix A/c Order and Signed the Agreement. The a/c Manager called the Sales Manager and informed him about my request. The Sales Manager told him it was to charge the a/c with Freon Only. I then spoke with the Sales Manager on the phone. I told him look at your copy of the agreement. It says Fix A/C. If he did not authorize the work. I would hire an Attorney and File Suit. He immediately agreed to have all work done free of charge. They had to replace the entire a/c system. It cost almost as much as the purchase price of the vehicle. Let them lie. Some of us know the system as well. Sincerely, A Happy Southerner riding in a/c comfort. I would love to read your feed back on this. Thanks for the great information you put out there.
I had a car taken back by Wild Bill's Chrysler Plymouth in Totowa, NJ ( Long time out of business). In 1970 when I got out of the Army I bought a 1968 used Old's cutlass Supreme with 19,000 miles from them. Within a week the A/C stopped working and the transmission started slipping. I went back to complain and they basically told me I was out of luck, and it was my car. I went back to work and told my boss my sad story. He went out to look at my car and we found in the glove box that they had never cleaned out 1) a bill for new tires put on at 65,000 miles and 2) a AMMCO transmission service at 81,000 miles. I wanted to run right back and through these in the used car managers face, but my boss made me make copies of everything highlight the mileage and just go back and calmly show them to the owner. I did and they cut me a check that day. That dealership was latter heavily fined by the state of NJ and within a few years closed up.
I had a Ford Dealer sell me a 2 yr. old Ford F - 150 with 29,777 miles on it. Mint shape. I'm driving it for a week, and it turns over to 30,000 miles. Well, it TRIED to roll over to 30,000. When the numbers went to turn over, they turned into a cluster f. I took the truck back. They got the sales manager. He looked, and said to me, " we don't turn back speedometers. " That's funny, I never said that he did....but someone had. I said, I don't want the truck. He said, " sell it. " I said, nupe, you're buying it back and refunding ever penny of my money. He said, " sue me. " LOL OK. A friend of mine had an old Dodge Dart Swinger that he used for work. He was on vacation for two weeks, he said i was welcome to use it. I got white shoe polish and on both sides of the car wrote " So and so Ford Dealership ripped me off. " :] I'm not sure how many hamburgers I ate just driving that car backkkkkkkk and forth in front of the dealership. Since i wasn't in the truck in question, they had no idea WTF was going on. They sent a few salesman out to try to talk to me. I never stopped. I wanted the sales manager. It just so happened that directly across the street, there was an empty lot. I parked it there after everyone went home, and my g/f picked me up to take me home. This went on for 11 days. One night, while the car was parked in the vacant lot, the Police called my friend who lent me his car. They asked if he knew his car was there. he said, yes. The asked him why. He said, " read what's on the car. " Police said we have. Why don't you talk to the dealership ? My friend said, " I'd never buy a car there EVER. " The Police tried to pry info out of him about the car. My friend asked, " is the car parked there illegally ? " Police said no. On the 11th day, I went to get the car to drive it up and down the street. I was met by the sales manager. " YOU ! YOUUUUUUU ! YOUUUUUUUUUUUU ! WHAT ARE YOU DOING! ? " Oh, he knew what I was doing. That's why he was pissed. So, he chased me up and down the street for 35 minutes. Then he asked me " if I would PLEASE pull over and talk with him. " I said OK. Here's the agreement we reached. He'd take the truck back as long as i spent the same amount of money on another vehicle. ( I hate Fords ) But they had a Mitsubishi Dealer they owned also. A salesman drove me up to the dealership, and I ended up buying a 2 yr. old Mitsubishi Eclipse Spider turbo. Who says dealerships don't take vehicles back ? I heard later that the truck that they sold me was sold at auction. They didn't even want the POS back LOL.
Bought a used car with a missing remote key fob. Said they would get it form the person who traded it in. I said, write it down with a dollar amount if you fail. "no, I don't want to do that, lets see if parts can make one" Had a new key fob in the minutes before we were done with all the paperwork! :)
I was actually fortunate with my most recent internet purchase where the dealer took the truck back,.. of course I had to eat the shipping from CT to Texas and I did buy a more expensive truck from this dealer as a replacement. The first truck was a mess when I got it inspected arrival…. It would have taken thousands of dollars and in the end I would still not be happy with it. So I returned it. Lesson learned… don’t buy things on line without seeing the vehicle up close… the dealer did have over 60 pictures and videos… but guess what, the issues were not shown and there were no pics of things wrong with it.
My first reaction when Steve started telling the story was "should've called the dealer and have them check beforehand". Some salesman isn't going to know these things unless he's a certified car expert and most of them can barely tell Toyota from a Porsche Turbo. So that's what I would do before driving over, call the dealer with a VIN and confirm it has the package needed.
I was fired my my car sales job at a BMW dealership for an 'ethics violation'. I had ethics! They fired me. Sales manager quote: "This is not a business where you get to treat people the way you want to be treated."
@@DeanstuD That's certainly not right! All the customers would of had to do anyway is to check the car fax & they would of had it anyway, weather you told them or not....
Lucky for me the four cars I've bought In my life so far came from honest sales guys. When at a reputable car dealer ship I listen to the sales guys very carefully and bring someone with me that has more experience at car buying in case I'm lied to. Great informative video.
It is untrue that they will not add it in writing. I just bought a used car and the windshield was broken. The seller said they would pay for the fix after I bought it. I asked for it in writing and when I got back from the test drive they had the documents ready including that paper. If you know what you are doing or look and sound like you know what you are doing it helps. When you look at a used car you should turn it on and test everything as well as open the hood and look in the hood. Feel the paint under the hood too and if you feel bumps under it don't buy it because that means it was repainted. You can't trust carfax because not everything is documented and carfax is only a 5 day warranty. If they say they won't have it in writing and you see something wrong with it just walk away.
I've owned 34 cars in my life and with one exception (the very first car I bought in 1970), they were either used from a private party or brand new. And a lot of folks don't know this, but from the salesman's perspective, the money is in used, not new. I had a friend that worked at a BMW dealership and he said he made $200 for every brand new BMW he sold, but could make four figures regularly on used cars on the lot.
I know somebody that owns a used car lot and he says that it is a license to print money. Sounds like profit margins are rather large in that industry.
Physically it is indeed revolutions of the drive/prop shaft divided by the rev of the wheel. It equals the number of teeth on the ring gear divided by the pinion gear.
FYI for people there are multiple ways you can determine rear end or final drive ratio (FDR) on the spot. Look for build tag, usually in drivers door jam area. The sticker tag will list FDR. Sometimes it shows an FDR code - Google it. Look for the vehicle RPO build code sheet. It is a sticker with a bunch of the digit codes that list all the build options for that particular vehicle. Common places are in the glove box, close to the spare tire and in the trunk area. Look up the code for the axle you want and check that sticker. Get under the vehicle. Attached to the rear end cover is a metal tag with the FDR stamped into it, usually with differential type (limited slip or open) as well. Sometimes another metal tag indicates fluid type. Sometimes the tags are lost during service. If you like math, calculate engine speed for a known transmission gear (commonly top gear) and go for a test drive. On the highway look to see if the engine rpm is close to what you expect. Lastly like many people have said take the vin to a dealer or just put it into Google. Many times a website will pop up with a decoder and build options. Great info Mr. Lehto, love the podcasts!
Generally you can find the build number in the truck. In my Silverado it's in the glovebox. Research it all online as to what the letters and numbers mean.
I've been a NZ mechanic since '67, and I'd not heard the term 'steeper' or 'shallower'. But a lot of folks think a higher gear means higher numerically, so I like your terms now.
When it comes to trucks, rear end ratio's, GCWR capacities, engine horsepower, ft. pounds of torque and many more specs have a wide variety of combinations and options from the factory. ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS RUN THE VIN NUMBER AND THE REAR AXLE RATIO OF THAT TRUCK WOULD HAVE BEEN REVEALED. If that was what he was looking for in a truck, he should have known the method of finding out for sure!! If he had written this in his offer while buying the truck, (ie truck must have a 3.73 rear axle ratio), the sales manager, (providing he is a good one) would have ran the VIN himself to make sure. You are right though.. the salesman is there for 1 purpose.. to sell the truck. I sold new and used cars and trucks for years, and I was a good one.. I would have ran the VIN rather than told the customer what he wanted to hear well before the customer drove 2 hrs. There are good dealerships believe it or not, and there are very bad ones as well. The dealer that I worked for (16 yrs) would have taken some kind of action within his staff when dealing with an unhappy customer's complaint. NOT LIMITED TO FIRING EMPLOYEES, AND GIVING THE CUSTOMER HIS MONEY BACK .. PLUS A FEW BUCKS FOR HIS FUEL EXPENSES AND TIME. But then again, customer satisfaction and competent sales people were a must where I worked.
@Nonya Bizness This is the biggest purchase for most people and most do no research. Being trusting is the same as being naive! Either way that is still real money coming out of the customer's wallet / purse. I am siding with Jeff Cox on this one. I think / feel people should research before buying a car and half to realize that the salesman is there to sell you, not to be your buddy. Sad But True.
I got lucky one time having an infiniti dealer add that a low mileage g35 i test drove and bought could have a potential clutch problem. I had them note that if there is in fact a problem i want it fixed or no deal. Sure enough clutch goes after a yesr or so and thankfully getting this onto the agreement got me a rebuilt trans and new clutch installed for minimal cost to me. Be smart about purchases people! Also enjoy all of your videos Steve, keep up the good work!
My brother got a dealer to take back a "certified by the dealer" car when he discovered the brakes were shot on the drive home. He did so by agreeing to buy another car from them that was more expensive. He was scammed.
I went back to my dealer and asked him to fix the Daylight Running lights, which never worked. They looked up the build list for my particular car exactly by VIN number and out of the detailed list of things it was fitted with was NO on the Daylight running lights item, so that system was never installed from the factory and possibly could not be installed now, years later. We did not go any further with my question. But there on the list was all the details of the car including things like the actual rear axle ratio and whether limited slip.
Steve, I know I'm off subject, but I love the way you move the model cars around on the shelf behind you for almost every video. I also love your videos and your content. Keep it up.
What a screwed up state. I live in a consumer state and the State Attorney General would have this dealer by the " dickers" , as you put it. If you got one witness the salesman said it, then it's up to them to prove that he didn't say it. It's called an " Oral Agreement" here and is as good as paper.
My Brother's father in-law the Ford dealer to take back the new truck my brother bought. He hadn't made the first payment yet when he went to an abandoned house, stuck a shotgun in his mouth and blew his head off. The police found him by going to the dealer and they were able to locate the vehicle by GPS. Usually dealers are buttholes. I overheard a salesman tell an elderly lady the reason the Chevrolet engines were so quiet is they have RUBBER pistons. There is a special place in hell for car salesmen.
A long time ago, I drove 60 miles out (that's a far distance in NJ) to see a car on a lot of a car that had a mileage that was "slightly above 100K" . Photos looked good, so I drove out. Cars turned out to be beat to hell in every spot conveniently not shown in the photos... and had 190,000 miles. The guy looked at me smugly and said, "Well that's above 100K". Took me a lot of will to not punch the guy in the face for wasting my time. I was able to convince a couple people to not buy there before leaving the lot.
Around here we have a 3 day period. I had 3 things I wanted. ABS, map lights, and I forget the other thing, the sales guy said it's in the package. I kept asking why isn't it listed in the window sticker. I asked so many times he got pissy. We bought the car. The wife was going over the book and it said if it had ABS it would have the light when you turned on the key. We returned the car the next day. The manager said they don't take cars back. I said I'm not leaving with the car... I got the car I wanted. Do not take no for a answer, and make sure it's within the 3 days. (and as Steve said, don't trust the ass selling the car.)
I had dealership add to the "other" section to confirm that the suspension was good, replace the breaks and replace the ac actuators. Before i drove the car away they did change the actuators, but they said the brake were already new so they didn't have to replace them. I got the car looked at by a mechanic for something a week after I bought it and they said the brakes had 75% life left. After getting my money the dealership was such a pain to deal with that i didn't go back to get the brakes. The point is that i did get them to write things on that form about the car before i signed it.
I thought this was the case because I do read these things and recognize the words. Now I know what it means and my ASSumption was that the salesperson was a dealer representative. Thanks for the clarification!
when I was young, I was wanting to sell a car, the one place offered $300.00 and I looked and came back and the same guy tells me $250.00 which I took. That was in Iowa. Your stories are great - you as a Finnish-American and maybe from the UP where I was born.
Funny, my enlistment (Oct 1978) contract had very similar language. My point is that many transactions have such caveats if only because otherwise, he said - he said arguments begin.
I got repair of a brake-specific symptom added to a used car dealer purchase agreement recently and countersigned… of course the dealer was a low overhead one man operation, and the mechanic doing the work was his son… whom I had already frequented for so long I had already spent probably the whole MSRP of that used car at his garage!
I bought a 1978 mercury grand marquis land yacht in about 1982, sweet car btw. It was about 0° out, last day of the month. In January. The dealership was empty and they were hungry to sell a car. I got the dealer to write in the deal they would fix a miss in the engine (400cid v8). Salesman tried to write OK will give you a tuneup and write it in the deal. I said no you’re write in there you will fix the miss. What ever it takes. They ended up doing some engine work to fix the miss. Cost me zero.
Consumers need to be made aware of this disclaimer clause and signed off on it in order for it to be valid and formed part of the sales agreement. Lying and fraudulent misrepresentation should not be allowed to be used as a sales tactic.
*grins* when I bought my most recent car, I wrote on the sales order - and made the dealer initial - that the car would have no warning lights on the dash when delivered to me, because the salesman had promised that the airbag light was just a "free recall service". This ended up costing the dealer $2100, but they couldn't go back on it - they couldn't even (according to them) not sell me the car and refund my money, because I'd already paid them and signed the document at which point the sale had occured. I would note, though, that they just shrugged it off as "so we didn't make money on that car. We'll make it up on the next one."
That's true, but the guy trading in his car is an amateur, while Dealers are in the business of buy cars each and every day. You fool them, you've gotten very lucky.
What if you draft a separate agreement with the salesman holding him responsible for the specs on the vehicle? By his willingness or unwillingness to signs it, will reveal the truth of his promises.
This is why I bought my Tesla from my iPhone Tesla App. I WILL NEVER buy a car from a dealership AGAIN!! Haven’t been to a gas station nor dealership since 3-2019. Life is good.
Hey Steve, here's a topic I don't think I've seen you cover yet. Car insurance. Particularly when your car is totaled by the other party's insurance and they're offering a settlement. What your rights are in these cases, what you can demand, etc.
Hey Steve I was given your link by a Friend and see how incredible both the quality and the depth of your video's are, I have been locked in a war with Agco and a Dealer for 26 months now with a lethal Brand new Tractor that despite their occasionally attempting repairs still has just about every lethal defect in it and I am about 80 to 90 video's into this story. I wished I had seen your Channel even though I am in Australia the things you raised here are so sad to live the worst of them first hand but there are the same Tractors in the USA and now they have experimental parts in them and still unsafe with the owners having no where to turn. Check out if you get time Tractor Daddy in Kentucky Mike Means but all we are left with is trying to get the word out there to other people to save them and their Families from hopefully getting harmed. Yours Truly Garry
Most people go through life thinking, If I treat people fair, I will in turn be treated fair. They could not be more wrong. As a Phone repair person, I used to set in a small tent on top of a pole splicing Phone cable for days on end. We used to tag onto some busy business line , on our test set, on Speakerphone, and hit mute, and just set and listen all day. We would find a way to make small wagers, on whatever was happening on a call. One day we tagged into a Divorce Attorneys line. We were stunned, at what we heard over the next 2 days. My eyes wide and I now knew how they made their money. How did they make money, sorry by Federal Law Im not allowed to repeat, anything I heard while testing the lines. Become a phoneman, and you to will know. Snakes aren't always found in the woods. Had a local council man that was accused of listening into the employees in the office, if he found out they weren't going to vote for him, he found a way to fire them, he was accused, but in the end he said sure his phone was programmed to do this, but he didnt know it. And they never found anyone that could say they told him, and it wasnt a normal feature, and normally never turned on. They had no where to go and dropped the case. What they should of done was say wait a minute was this the only system he had installed in the last 20 years. Lets talk to the last installer of the last system. That was me, and guess what, He had me install a barge in device into his phone to listen in on all calls if he wished, 12 years before. He stood there watching me install it, and made sure he knew how to use it. Well no one asked, so no one told. The case was in the papers for weeks. And he was reelected many times after that. He blamed it all on Politics. He actually was a pretty nice guy, if he called for service and you put him ahead of everyone else, he would give you personality a 100 dollar bill. Hey it was just dusty old Tax money. But it spent like real money.
When you buy a car from an individual all you get is a title Only dealers use purchase agreements Do you have to sign it if you’re paying cash or your own financing
How does one determine a representation or "promise" is, in fact, being legitimately made by the "dealer's authorized representative?" If no obligation exists to be truthful, can't the guy mopping the floor claim, with absolute impunity, that he's an "authorized representative?"
when i sold cars and we brought in a load of rentals, we always told people....yessir every vehicle goes through a blah blah inspection. in reality all we did was pull the stickers off and put it on the lot. couldnt do it anymore after 4 months.
In 1991 I was working at an Acura dealer in Colorado. I had a client who was an attorney want to lease an Acura Legend. After we came to terms on the lease he asked to see the Acura Finance lease contract with our agreed upon numbers typed in. I brought him a copy and he began to review the contract striking out verbiage that he didn't like along the way. When he got done he said that's the only contract that he would sign. I said that he could sign it if he liked but our finance manager wouldn't sign it and Acura Finance wouldn't accept it even if he did. If he wanted to lease the car he would have to abide by Acura Finance's terms or he didn't get to lease it. In the end he signed the unedited contract and left with the car. I'm not sure to this day how or why he thought that he'd have any chance of getting to modify the terms of their lease.
Contracts are supposed to be negotiated. If it's take it as is or forget it, then that isn't much of a negotiation. I realize that big companies work that way, but that doesn't make it right. Also as a lawyer they may spend a significant amount of time negotiating contracts depending on their area of practice.
should I asked to see a ID of the dealer authorized representative to make sure that's not another salesmen signing the purchase agreement document. since they always lie.
its been a few years but i bought a truck as is and had a problem ask dealer about it said he wouldn't do any thing when i tried to get a part. found out the truck was a older than on the title i told him to take truck back or give me the right truck that i never received. he did buy it back. back then i didn't check the vin # now i do
i know when buying used parts dont ask the seller does this fit a XXXXX my specific car? answer will always be yes. instead ask what it was from, or what it will fit.
I bought a new car today (Accord). At the very beginning of the finance-office signing, (my first signature) was a document saying that I understand the entire transaction will be videotaped! As soon as I signed the document, on went the recording (at least I saw the camera). The finance guy did make some promises/explanations on the two add-on packages I bought, and on some I turned down. I wonder how long that will be stored? (I forgot to ask him.) Anyway--this was something new to me.
Oh Steve, Steve, Steve! My friend...used cars DO go back the used car lot. The do so via the AUTO AUCTION. But yeah...they will not give you a refund and take the vehicle back because part of the sale price went to the sales..."person" as commision and the lot isn't gonna ask an employee to give back their pay. The guy shoulda made sure about the FINAL DRIVE ratio before he bought the thing.
I was test driving a car once. I had to sign a form saying if I crashed the car it would be my fault. I crossed out that section and wrote not liable, initialed the form at the alteration and got the salesman to initial it too. He just looked at me like I was an idiot. Would the alterations to the form be legally binding? Could you do the same thing on the purchase and sale?
![Coheed and Cambria - Searching for Tomorrow [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hDsYGLbmadg/mqdefault.jpg)
I took a new Mitsubishi for a test drive in the mid 90's. I asked the salesman riding with me if the car had anti-lock brakes. He said it did. I was going about 60 mph and decided to give the ABS a test. I stomped on the brake pedal and discovered that the car did NOT have ABS. The wheels locked up, the tires screamed, the car fishtailed and I almost crashed. Scared the crap out of the salesman. I didn't buy the car but maybe I taught one salesman not to lie.
good 1 lol
Former car salesman here: I would reccomend NEVER buying a used car through a dealer, and ALWAYS using Costco or some other prenegotiated program when buying new. Additionally, bring a calculator (seriously), and go line by line (there should only be a few lines) adding up and questioning each charge that then brings you to your total price. You should only pay the prenegotiated price, plus the fees legally required (tax/title/etc). No rustproofing/pinstriping/floormats/bs.
And finally, go to a credit union (or bank if you can't help it) and get a loan (in the form of a cashier's check) for the full price of the car. Then go back to the dealer and exchange the check for the title to the car. When you're done you'll know you got a good price, and your finances are going to be predictable.
I actually had a dealer take back a used car. I made sure that the contract said that they would pay for repairs within the first 30 days or they would take it back. I took the car to another dealer who sold that car and asked them to inspect it, because I was concerned about it's performance and some oil leaks. Turned out that this $5000 car needed about $4000 in repairs. So I took their estimate back to the dealer and said they could either fix it or take the car back. They weren't happy, but they did take it back and I got all my money back. This was in NJ, about 20 years ago
1) It is always bullshit O’clock at a car dealership.
2) If the salesperson lips are moving they are potentially lying to you.
I'm was in the used car sales business for 8 years and can confirm Steve's statements. I however, never lied but also didn't make as many car sales at others. My policy was honesty and low or no pressure !
The guy shouldn't have asked "Does your truck have the 3.73 gears?" He should have asked "What is the gear ratio?" The sales guy will say whatever will bring the guy across the state. The other option is to figure out what RPM the engine should be turning at highway speed with the different ratios. There may be a code on the door tag that has the axle code. I feel for our truck buying hero but it seems like he was very diligent about figuring what to buy but not diligent about making sure what he was buying was what he wanted. Even if the sales guy had the best intentions he may not really understand what he's looking at.
I got a car to go back to the dealer (almost)!
I am WAY late in seeing this video, but I only discovered the channel recently. The videos have been GREAT! Very entertaining and informative.
The TL;DR version: got such a good deal the dealer called me to buy my car back!
In about 2002 I wanted to check out some Firebirds/Camaros with my wife. She had never been in one, and I had owned 3 over the years. I had no intent on buying.
We went to the GM dealer and asked to check one out. They were very gracious, especially since I opened with "I'm not looking to buy today."
The salesman showed us a 98 Trans Am Firebird. It was nice. Nothing special other than being a TA. They let us take it out for a drive, with the salesman in the back. Although thats not my preference, it was what they wanted. My intent was to get onto it a bit and impress my wife. I was 29 at the time, amd she was 32 so hot rodding a Trans Am wasn't as harsh as when I was 18! We did some high speed runs on the interstate and a few quick corners.
The salesman was trying to sell me on the car talking about the "manliness" of the Firebird, and that my wife probably wont be allowed to drive it. As you can inagine that set her off! I noticed. But I wasnt planning on buying so I didn't care.
We get back to the lot and he pops the hood and says "with this V6 you'll save a lot on gas too."
I look and count in my head 1,2,3,4,5,6...7,8. "Yep. That v6 will be great"
Then he goes through the song and dance of "lets get you in this car."
"Why not", I think.
The salesman comes at me with a price that is high for a Firebird but in the decent range for a Trans Am. I had done my research because I had considered buying one, but declined since we were planning on starting a family.
Since my wife was angry with the guy, I figured I'd pretend to negotiate then leave after an hour or so.
Well, the negotiations went as they usually do: long, drawn out, and adversarial. But I really had no dog in the fight. I was there to waste his time at that point.
But then... Oh yes then, they came back with a number BELOW the KBB trade in value for a Trans Am and probably a good number for a baseline Firebird.
Well, how could I NOT take that deal. So, I did. And made them buy us dinner at the Italian restaurant that's not Olive Garden.
Three days later I get a call early in the morning. It's the dealership. They want to talk to me about my Trans Am because "they have been directed by the boss to increase their Trans Am inventory. They want to buy my Trans Am.
Well, I don't mind flipping a car that I have no emotional attachment to, so off to the dealer I go.
So talking with the sales manager, I ask about the salesman that sold me the car. He didnt work there anymore.
The sales manager then made an offer on my car. Two thousand less than I paid. I countered with the high end of KBB dealer price. The sales manager visibly backed up and gasped! Great actor!
He said "you only paid $10,800," (I think that was the number. It was several years ago) "we're not buying it from you for 18,000!"
"Well", I said, "that's my price. Or we can trade straight across for a 98 or newer Durango." (the vehicle I really wanted)
We negotiatied on the trade, but I wouldnt accept anything they offered. None of the deals were even close to fair on my end.
Ultimately I walked away and kept the car. Six months later, I found another dealership that was willing to trade straight accross for a 98 Durango.
So, it may be a unicorn. But it has happened! And, being a packrat, I may even have some of the paperwork in a drawer somewhere.
Thanks for a Great show Steve, and to the commenters: thanks for the great comments. This has to be the calmest comment section on The Tube!
This is why I'm very happy with the part of Swedish law that states that (loosly translated and shortened), if someone enters an agreement by giving false information or omitting information, and that information could be assumed to be relevant for the agreement, that agreement is void.
Yeah, but WE have free enterprise!
We have allowed people to lie so often, we just say
to bad.
Nobody's held accountable.
Even in courts
Under perjury of law????
They "mispoke"
Politicians, salesman, the list gets bigger all the time..
Can anyone add to the list😛😛
This reminds me when I was signing for my house. The paperwork is huge. I was at the title agency, realtor sitting across from me and a title agent there too. As I was flipping pages there was this random line that said something about $100 being available or whatnot, I was curious because I had known about the good faith payment and all these other costs and I had never heard the price of $100 mentioned before, so I asked about it. No one knew -- not the realtor or the agent who worked at the title company -- I thought it was a bit like the twilight zone where I'm signing papers I don't understand and no one else did either.
I know this is an older Video but Steve...I got a dealer to buy a used car back :D
My wife visited our local Ford Dealership in early 2015 to buy a NEW car, the dealer talked her into buying a used 2014 Ford Fiesta, the dealer said it had 9000 Miles on the clock (this was also on their website ad for that car), and a clean "carfax", one owner no abuse etc, and that it was a finance return hence the low mileage. But they didn't show her the carfax report (turns out they didn't actually have one), and when she took it for a test drive the dash display was set to the average Mpg and she didn't even think to change display. During the sale they had her sign everything, but at no point did they give her anything with the actual mileage on it, the papers she was given when she came home had a handwritten note for the actual mileage (we discovered this LATER) which was added AFTER she signed the papers.
Well she had it maybe 2 weeks, I drove it as mine was in the shop for something. I changed the dash display to show the actual Mileage ( play with buttons in a new car, it's just a thing I do), it actually had almost 30000 miles on it, I lifted the hood and the Aluminum engine block had some pretty significant corrosion on it, I pulled a Carfax report, which showed it was previously a Hertz Rental that had been in NJ during the Hurricane, and had salt water flood damage and was an insurance writeoff.
We went into the dealer, they Laughed and told us "no take backs". They actually admitted at that time that they had no idea it was insurance writeoff due to flood damage as they bought it from an auction, and that they had been using the car as an office runaround and when they bought it, it did in fact have 9000 miles on it and they put the other 20000 on it.
I called a local Lawyer (who is also a friend), we showed him all the papers they gave my wife (this is when we discovered the after the fact handwritten mileage), he called the dealer, did his legal thing, they called me less me than 30 mins after they got off the phone with him and told us to take the car back to them, they gave us a full refund. :D
Hey Steve, back in the 70s my mom worked for the city of Long Beach, ca. She worked processing senior citizens complaints, about car dealerships, the largest one in Long Beach in particular, over 2,500 complaints per year, which the main complaints were about misleading or lying to sell the car, I had a friend who was a world champion boxer, after his boxing career was over, he became a car salesman, he made out well because of being famous people came to buy cars just to see him, he told me if you want to hold your job u will say things to sell cars, that's the main reason, EITHER U SELL CARS OR FIND ANOTHER JOB. !!! most salesmen are on commission. Thanks William
William Ambrogio I don’t know of any dealership that will place their salespeople on salary.
In Minnesota I bought a new Oldsmobile that had sat on the showroom floor for most of the model year. The tires 'thumped' during a test drive. Salesman & FINANCE manager agreed to replace the tires if the thumping didn't stop. The finance manager wrote that on the sales agreement. Thumping didn't go away. The SERVICE manager wouldn't replace the tires. I refused to move my new car from their service bay. Service manager still refused. I overheard someone say the dealership owner was in the building, which seemed to panic the employees. I told the service manager that I was going to the owner's office to talk to him. The service manager stopped me in my tracks and agreed to replace the tires. I could see that he was seething with anger, but he did replace all four tires. This was a Cadillac and Oldsmobile dealership and I was buying one of the last Oldsmobile cars they had. Fortunately the finance manager wrote it on the sales agreement and it was also fortunate for me that all employees seemed to panic when they heard the owner was in the building. I wonder which reason caused the service manager to replace the tires?
Years ago I went to a dealership to look at a truck. They let me take it for the night to test drive and said I was approved for credit. They told me they would speak with other banks in the morning to get me a better deal, if possible. I took the truck out on the highway and floored the accelerator (who doesn't) and noticed the RPM's went up, but my speed didn't. I noticed the truck did the same thing again twice that night
The next morning I went back and asked them about the transmission. The saleswoman stated there had been a minor problem with it before and they replaced the whole transmission. (Red flag #1-- a business doesn't make money by spending more than necessary) I asked if they did the work in their own service bay using GM parts. She stated that they did. I said "Ok, I'll take the truck IF you can give me an extended warranty on the transmission covering parts and labor, since you guys did the work and it's a brand new transmission." She goes to a manager and comes back and says "Ok, we can do that." Just then, someone walks in and says there was an issue with my credit and the bank and they can't make the deal work. I ask what if I trade in my car and bring the cost down $10k. She says no. I ask "What if I give you my 10k trade in and give you another 10k in cash?" She again declines, on a 25k truck. She then tries to sale me another model. I could have got credit from another source, paying them outright, but the lies and deceit disgusted me.
I worked as a mechanic at a dealership. There were some cars on the lot that the salespeople were only to sell with an aftermarket warranty. If the customer didn't want to buy the warranty we wouldn't sell them the car. That way the warranty company ends up paying for the engine or transmission. Not the dealership.
Steve Lehto,
I have a wonderful story about a car purchase I made in the 80's. I purchased a used 1978 Ford LTD in 1982. I was on the used car lot when the vehicle was delivered. It had just been traded in for a new vehicle purchase by another customer. The salesman said they needed to go through the vehicle and check it out before I could buy it. I told the salesman if they even washed the vehicle I would not buy it or any vehicle from them. I convinced him to allow my wife and I to test drive the vehicle. We drove it and loved the vehicle it drove like a new vehicle.
The only problem we found was the a/c would not blow cold air. When we got back on the lot I told the salesman about the a/c being broken. We discussed the price of the vehicle and agreed on a price. I told the salesman I would only agree to purchase the vehicle if they fixed the a/c. The salesman said he could not make that decision but the Sales Manager could. We went to the Sales Manager and presented to him my offer.
The Sales Manager said he would only agree to have the a/c shop put Freon in the system. I insisted that be put in the sales agreement. The Sales Manager inadvertently wrote FIX A/C. I purchased the vehicle and immediately brought it to the a/c shop 6 miles away.
When the a/c shop manger spoke with me. I told him to fix my a/c. He said they normally do not fix the a/c only charge it with Freon. I showed him the agreement with the work order Fix A/C. I stated I request the a/c fix as part of the agreement. I said the Sales Manager wrote the Fix A/c Order and Signed the Agreement.
The a/c Manager called the Sales Manager and informed him about my request. The Sales Manager told him it was to charge the a/c with Freon Only. I then spoke with the Sales Manager on the phone. I told him look at your copy of the agreement. It says Fix A/C. If he did not authorize the work. I would hire an Attorney and File Suit.
He immediately agreed to have all work done free of charge. They had to replace the entire a/c system. It cost almost as much as the purchase price of the vehicle. Let them lie. Some of us know the system as well.
Sincerely,
A Happy Southerner riding in a/c comfort.
I would love to read your feed back on this. Thanks for the great information you put out there.
I learn so much from Mr. Lehto, thank you.
I had a car taken back by Wild Bill's Chrysler Plymouth in Totowa, NJ ( Long time out of business). In 1970 when I got out of the Army I bought a 1968 used Old's cutlass Supreme with 19,000 miles from them. Within a week the A/C stopped working and the transmission started slipping. I went back to complain and they basically told me I was out of luck, and it was my car. I went back to work and told my boss my sad story. He went out to look at my car and we found in the glove box that they had never cleaned out 1) a bill for new tires put on at 65,000 miles and 2) a AMMCO transmission service at 81,000 miles. I wanted to run right back and through these in the used car managers face, but my boss made me make copies of everything highlight the mileage and just go back and calmly show them to the owner. I did and they cut me a check that day. That dealership was latter heavily fined by the state of NJ and within a few years closed up.
@James W. Ofcourse they can. digital odometers are just numbers in a memory chip. On some cars it's more difficult than others.
I had a Ford Dealer sell me a 2 yr. old Ford F - 150 with 29,777 miles on it. Mint shape. I'm driving it for a week, and it turns over to 30,000 miles. Well, it TRIED to roll over to 30,000. When the numbers went to turn over, they turned into a cluster f. I took the truck back. They got the sales manager. He looked, and said to me, " we don't turn back speedometers. " That's funny, I never said that he did....but someone had. I said, I don't want the truck. He said, " sell it. " I said, nupe, you're buying it back and refunding ever penny of my money. He said, " sue me. " LOL OK. A friend of mine had an old Dodge Dart Swinger that he used for work. He was on vacation for two weeks, he said i was welcome to use it. I got white shoe polish and on both sides of the car wrote " So and so Ford Dealership ripped me off. " :]
I'm not sure how many hamburgers I ate just driving that car backkkkkkkk and forth in front of the dealership. Since i wasn't in the truck in question, they had no idea WTF was going on. They sent a few salesman out to try to talk to me. I never stopped. I wanted the sales manager. It just so happened that directly across the street, there was an empty lot. I parked it there after everyone went home, and my g/f picked me up to take me home. This went on for 11 days. One night, while the car was parked in the vacant lot, the Police called my friend who lent me his car. They asked if he knew his car was there. he said, yes. The asked him why. He said, " read what's on the car. " Police said we have. Why don't you talk to the dealership ? My friend said, " I'd never buy a car there EVER. " The Police tried to pry info out of him about the car. My friend asked, " is the car parked there illegally ? " Police said no. On the 11th day, I went to get the car to drive it up and down the street. I was met by the sales manager. " YOU ! YOUUUUUUU ! YOUUUUUUUUUUUU ! WHAT ARE YOU DOING! ? " Oh, he knew what I was doing. That's why he was pissed. So, he chased me up and down the street for 35 minutes. Then he asked me " if I would PLEASE pull over and talk with him. " I said OK. Here's the agreement we reached. He'd take the truck back as long as i spent the same amount of money on another vehicle. ( I hate Fords ) But they had a Mitsubishi Dealer they owned also. A salesman drove me up to the dealership, and I ended up buying a 2 yr. old Mitsubishi Eclipse Spider turbo. Who says dealerships don't take vehicles back ?
I heard later that the truck that they sold me was sold at auction. They didn't even want the POS back LOL.
Brilliant...if you've got the time.
Hmmmmm. Very illuminating. And car salesman wonder why they're not exactly popular.
Big mistake: the buyer should have asked "what is the gear ratio of the rear end"
Bought a used car with a missing remote key fob. Said they would get it form the person who traded it in. I said, write it down with a dollar amount if you fail. "no, I don't want to do that, lets see if parts can make one" Had a new key fob in the minutes before we were done with all the paperwork! :)
If possible, I would want them to reprogram the car so that the old key fob would no longer work.
I was actually fortunate with my most recent internet purchase where the dealer took the truck back,.. of course I had to eat the shipping from CT to Texas and I did buy a more expensive truck from this dealer as a replacement. The first truck was a mess when I got it inspected arrival…. It would have taken thousands of dollars and in the end I would still not be happy with it. So I returned it. Lesson learned… don’t buy things on line without seeing the vehicle up close… the dealer did have over 60 pictures and videos… but guess what, the issues were not shown and there were no pics of things wrong with it.
"buying the car back" wouldn't be good enough anyway. The entire transaction ought to be unwound, void.
My first reaction when Steve started telling the story was "should've called the dealer and have them check beforehand". Some salesman isn't going to know these things unless he's a certified car expert and most of them can barely tell Toyota from a Porsche Turbo. So that's what I would do before driving over, call the dealer with a VIN and confirm it has the package needed.
I was fired my my car sales job at a BMW dealership for an 'ethics violation'. I had ethics! They fired me. Sales manager quote: "This is not a business where you get to treat people the way you want to be treated."
Fired from a new car dealer for being honest about a vehicles history. Customer happy, car sold, me fired and no commission.
@@DeanstuD That's certainly not right! All the customers would of had to do anyway is to check the car fax & they would of had it anyway, weather you told them or not....
Lucky for me the four cars I've bought In my life so far came from honest sales guys. When at a reputable car dealer ship I listen to the sales guys very carefully and bring someone with me that has more experience at car buying in case I'm lied to. Great informative video.
It is untrue that they will not add it in writing. I just bought a used car and the windshield was broken. The seller said they would pay for the fix after I bought it. I asked for it in writing and when I got back from the test drive they had the documents ready including that paper. If you know what you are doing or look and sound like you know what you are doing it helps. When you look at a used car you should turn it on and test everything as well as open the hood and look in the hood. Feel the paint under the hood too and if you feel bumps under it don't buy it because that means it was repainted. You can't trust carfax because not everything is documented and carfax is only a 5 day warranty. If they say they won't have it in writing and you see something wrong with it just walk away.
I've owned 34 cars in my life and with one exception (the very first car I bought in 1970), they were either used from a private party or brand new. And a lot of folks don't know this, but from the salesman's perspective, the money is in used, not new. I had a friend that worked at a BMW dealership and he said he made $200 for every brand new BMW he sold, but could make four figures regularly on used cars on the lot.
I know somebody that owns a used car lot and he says that it is a license to print money. Sounds like profit margins are rather large in that industry.
Physically it is indeed revolutions of the drive/prop shaft divided by the rev of the wheel. It equals the number of teeth on the ring gear divided by the pinion gear.
FYI for people there are multiple ways you can determine rear end or final drive ratio (FDR) on the spot.
Look for build tag, usually in drivers door jam area. The sticker tag will list FDR. Sometimes it shows an FDR code - Google it.
Look for the vehicle RPO build code sheet. It is a sticker with a bunch of the digit codes that list all the build options for that particular vehicle. Common places are in the glove box, close to the spare tire and in the trunk area. Look up the code for the axle you want and check that sticker.
Get under the vehicle. Attached to the rear end cover is a metal tag with the FDR stamped into it, usually with differential type (limited slip or open) as well. Sometimes another metal tag indicates fluid type. Sometimes the tags are lost during service.
If you like math, calculate engine speed for a known transmission gear (commonly top gear) and go for a test drive. On the highway look to see if the engine rpm is close to what you expect.
Lastly like many people have said take the vin to a dealer or just put it into Google. Many times a website will pop up with a decoder and build options.
Great info Mr. Lehto, love the podcasts!
Bingo!
There is usually a tag on the differential that states the ratio.
Generally you can find the build number in the truck. In my Silverado it's in the glovebox. Research it all online as to what the letters and numbers mean.
People, research, research, research and never ask a closed question. If the salesman can't (won't) answer a question about the car correctly move on.
I've been a NZ mechanic since '67, and I'd not heard the term 'steeper' or 'shallower'. But a lot of folks think a higher gear means higher numerically, so I like your terms now.
When it comes to trucks, rear end ratio's, GCWR capacities, engine horsepower, ft. pounds of torque and many more specs have a wide variety of combinations and options from the factory. ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS RUN THE VIN NUMBER AND THE REAR AXLE RATIO OF THAT TRUCK WOULD HAVE BEEN REVEALED. If that was what he was looking for in a truck, he should have known the method of finding out for sure!! If he had written this in his offer while buying the truck, (ie truck must have a 3.73 rear axle ratio), the sales manager, (providing he is a good one) would have ran the VIN himself to make sure. You are right though.. the salesman is there for 1 purpose.. to sell the truck. I sold new and used cars and trucks for years, and I was a good one.. I would have ran the VIN rather than told the customer what he wanted to hear well before the customer drove 2 hrs. There are good dealerships believe it or not, and there are very bad ones as well. The dealer that I worked for (16 yrs) would have taken some kind of action within his staff when dealing with an unhappy customer's complaint. NOT LIMITED TO FIRING EMPLOYEES, AND GIVING THE CUSTOMER HIS MONEY BACK .. PLUS A FEW BUCKS FOR HIS FUEL EXPENSES AND TIME. But then again, customer satisfaction and competent sales people were a must where I worked.
@Nonya Bizness This is the biggest purchase for most people and most do no research. Being trusting is the same as being naive! Either way that is still real money coming out of the customer's wallet / purse.
I am siding with Jeff Cox on this one. I think / feel people should research before buying a car and half to realize that the salesman is there to sell you, not to be your buddy. Sad But True.
I got lucky one time having an infiniti dealer add that a low mileage g35 i test drove and bought could have a potential clutch problem. I had them note that if there is in fact a problem i want it fixed or no deal. Sure enough clutch goes after a yesr or so and thankfully getting this onto the agreement got me a rebuilt trans and new clutch installed for minimal cost to me. Be smart about purchases people! Also enjoy all of your videos Steve, keep up the good work!
My brother got a dealer to take back a "certified by the dealer" car when he discovered the brakes were shot on the drive home. He did so by agreeing to buy another car from them that was more expensive. He was scammed.
It's a shame how honesty and integrity has gone out the window in some industries, isn't it?
I went back to my dealer and asked him to fix the Daylight Running lights, which never worked. They looked up the build list for my particular car exactly by VIN number and out of the detailed list of things it was fitted with was NO on the Daylight running lights item, so that system was never installed from the factory and possibly could not be installed now, years later. We did not go any further with my question. But there on the list was all the details of the car including things like the actual rear axle ratio and whether limited slip.
Steve, I know I'm off subject, but I love the way you move the model cars around on the shelf behind you for almost every video. I also love your videos and your content. Keep it up.
there is usually a stamped steel tag with the gear ratio stamped on it, attached to two differential cover bolts.
What a screwed up state. I live in a consumer state and the State Attorney General would have this dealer by the " dickers" , as you put it. If you got one witness the salesman said it, then it's up to them to prove that he didn't say it. It's called an " Oral Agreement" here and is as good as paper.
My Brother's father in-law the Ford dealer to take back the new truck my brother bought. He hadn't made the first payment yet when he went to an abandoned house, stuck a shotgun in his mouth and blew his head off. The police found him by going to the dealer and they were able to locate the vehicle by GPS. Usually dealers are buttholes. I overheard a salesman tell an elderly lady the reason the Chevrolet engines were so quiet is they have RUBBER pistons. There is a special place in hell for car salesmen.
Its why I dont let car salespeople into my social circles. Can't trust them
A long time ago, I drove 60 miles out (that's a far distance in NJ) to see a car on a lot of a car that had a mileage that was "slightly above 100K" . Photos looked good, so I drove out. Cars turned out to be beat to hell in every spot conveniently not shown in the photos... and had 190,000 miles. The guy looked at me smugly and said, "Well that's above 100K". Took me a lot of will to not punch the guy in the face for wasting my time. I was able to convince a couple people to not buy there before leaving the lot.
Around here we have a 3 day period. I had 3 things I wanted. ABS, map lights, and I forget the other thing, the sales guy said it's in the package. I kept asking why isn't it listed in the window sticker. I asked so many times he got pissy. We bought the car. The wife was going over the book and it said if it had ABS it would have the light when you turned on the key. We returned the car the next day. The manager said they don't take cars back. I said I'm not leaving with the car... I got the car I wanted. Do not take no for a answer, and make sure it's within the 3 days. (and as Steve said, don't trust the ass selling the car.)
Gear ratios are also stamped on the pumpkin or on a plate that is on the pumpkin.
I had dealership add to the "other" section to confirm that the suspension was good, replace the breaks and replace the ac actuators. Before i drove the car away they did change the actuators, but they said the brake were already new so they didn't have to replace them. I got the car looked at by a mechanic for something a week after I bought it and they said the brakes had 75% life left. After getting my money the dealership was such a pain to deal with that i didn't go back to get the brakes. The point is that i did get them to write things on that form about the car before i signed it.
I thought this was the case because I do read these things and recognize the words. Now I know what it means and my ASSumption was that the salesperson was a dealer representative. Thanks for the clarification!
If the contract looks suspicious, just walk away.
It's like hanging out with my grouchy, much smarter uncle, and I love it. Really more like hanging out with an old friend. Great stuff.
when I was young, I was wanting to sell a car, the one place offered $300.00 and I looked and came back and the same guy tells me $250.00 which I took. That was in Iowa. Your stories are great - you as a Finnish-American and maybe from the UP where I was born.
I was thinking right away that he could have checked the VIN# to find the options
As usual, excellent video. Usually the axle code is on the manufacturer sticker in the area of the drivers door.
Funny, my enlistment (Oct 1978) contract had very similar language. My point is that many transactions have such caveats if only because otherwise, he said - he said arguments begin.
Because they have a boss that tells them everyday if you don't sell today I'll fire you.
I got repair of a brake-specific symptom added to a used car dealer purchase agreement recently and countersigned… of course the dealer was a low overhead one man operation, and the mechanic doing the work was his son… whom I had already frequented for so long I had already spent probably the whole MSRP of that used car at his garage!
Good info, I feel smarter after watching your videos. Thanks!
I bought a 1978 mercury grand marquis land yacht in about 1982, sweet car btw. It was about 0° out, last day of the month. In January. The dealership was empty and they were hungry to sell a car. I got the dealer to write in the deal they would fix a miss in the engine (400cid v8). Salesman tried to write OK will give you a tuneup and write it in the deal. I said no you’re write in there you will fix the miss. What ever it takes. They ended up doing some engine work to fix the miss. Cost me zero.
Consumers need to be made aware of this disclaimer clause and signed off on it in order for it to be valid and formed part of the sales agreement. Lying and fraudulent misrepresentation should not be allowed to be used as a sales tactic.
*grins* when I bought my most recent car, I wrote on the sales order - and made the dealer initial - that the car would have no warning lights on the dash when delivered to me, because the salesman had promised that the airbag light was just a "free recall service". This ended up costing the dealer $2100, but they couldn't go back on it - they couldn't even (according to them) not sell me the car and refund my money, because I'd already paid them and signed the document at which point the sale had occured. I would note, though, that they just shrugged it off as "so we didn't make money on that car. We'll make it up on the next one."
Never had to lie. You can take the VIN and put it into the service computer and run it for options
Check the dealer fee & electronic filling fee. Just more ADM (additional dealer markup )
Footnote: Customers also Lie about their trade-in. lol
That's true, but the guy trading in his car is an amateur, while Dealers are in the business of buy cars each and every day. You fool them, you've gotten very lucky.
What if you draft a separate agreement with the salesman holding him responsible for the specs on the vehicle? By his willingness or unwillingness to signs it, will reveal the truth of his promises.
The salesman will not be there six months later anyway.
This is why I bought my Tesla from my iPhone Tesla App. I WILL NEVER buy a car from a dealership AGAIN!! Haven’t been to a gas station nor dealership since 3-2019. Life is good.
Hey Steve, here's a topic I don't think I've seen you cover yet. Car insurance. Particularly when your car is totaled by the other party's insurance and they're offering a settlement. What your rights are in these cases, what you can demand, etc.
Video summarized. Contract says salesman talk is not part of the deal unless included in contract.
Hey Steve I was given your link by a Friend and see how incredible both the quality and the depth of your video's are, I have been locked in a war with Agco and a Dealer for 26 months now with a lethal Brand new Tractor that despite their occasionally attempting repairs still has just about every lethal defect in it and I am about 80 to 90 video's into this story. I wished I had seen your Channel even though I am in Australia the things you raised here are so sad to live the worst of them first hand but there are the same Tractors in the USA and now they have experimental parts in them and still unsafe with the owners having no where to turn. Check out if you get time Tractor Daddy in Kentucky Mike Means but all we are left with is trying to get the word out there to other people to save them and their Families from hopefully getting harmed.
Yours Truly
Garry
Oh its enforcable, Just not by law.
Most people go through life thinking, If I treat people fair, I will in turn be treated fair.
They could not be more wrong.
As a Phone repair person, I used to set in a small tent on top of a pole splicing Phone cable for days on end. We used to tag onto some busy business line , on our test set, on Speakerphone, and hit mute, and just set and listen all day. We would find a way to make small wagers, on whatever was happening on a call. One day we tagged into a Divorce Attorneys line. We were stunned, at what we heard over the next 2 days. My eyes wide and I now knew how they made their money. How did they make money, sorry by Federal Law Im not allowed to repeat, anything I heard while testing the lines. Become a phoneman, and you to will know.
Snakes aren't always found in the woods.
Had a local council man that was accused of listening into the employees in the office, if he found out they weren't going to vote for him, he found a way to fire them, he was accused, but in the end he said sure his phone was programmed to do this, but he didnt know it. And they never found anyone that could say they told him, and it wasnt a normal feature, and normally never turned on. They had no where to go and dropped the case. What they should of done was say wait a minute was this the only system he had installed in the last 20 years. Lets talk to the last installer of the last system. That was me, and guess what, He had me install a barge in device into his phone to listen in on all calls if he wished, 12 years before. He stood there watching me install it, and made sure he knew how to use it. Well no one asked, so no one told. The case was in the papers for weeks.
And he was reelected many times after that. He blamed it all on Politics. He actually was a pretty nice guy, if he called for service and you put him ahead of everyone else, he would give you personality a 100 dollar bill. Hey it was just dusty old Tax money.
But it spent like real money.
When is a carsales person lying ? When their lips are moving .
The exact time the customer is doing the same thing.
Car salesmen, cops, politicians. It what they do.
Before I even watched the video, I was pretty sure that gear ratios (not torque ratios) are indicated in the VIN. Expensive lesson learned.
this should be put on a news channel about this dealer.
I bought a used car from a car lot in Portland, Or. It was a stolen car! They did "buy it back".
Before you buy. Take vin number call dealership of the make of truck and Verify options
I know this is old, but to find the gear ratio, just read the identity plate on the rear differential.
I had a Subaru dealer, tell me the wrx is twin turbo. When I said it wasn't, he was ready to fight me.
Thank You. Just Thank You
When you buy a car from an individual all you get is a title
Only dealers use purchase agreements
Do you have to sign it if you’re paying cash or your own financing
How does one determine a representation or "promise" is, in fact, being legitimately made by the "dealer's authorized representative?" If no obligation exists to be truthful, can't the guy mopping the floor claim, with absolute impunity, that he's an "authorized representative?"
when i sold cars and we brought in a load of rentals, we always told people....yessir every vehicle goes through a blah blah inspection. in reality all we did was pull the stickers off and put it on the lot. couldnt do it anymore after 4 months.
There may be a tag on the differential that indicates what the gear ratio is. If it got put back on when the cover was removed to change the fluid.
Must have been his first vehicle why he wouldn’t have checked it himself makes no sense, what needs someone to hold his hand!
Number one thing to remember is that, "If it's not in writing on the contract, then you can't told them to it."
Stick someone on commission to sell something, you know they will lie.
In 1991 I was working at an Acura dealer in Colorado. I had a client who was an attorney want to lease an Acura Legend. After we came to terms on the lease he asked to see the Acura Finance lease contract with our agreed upon numbers typed in. I brought him a copy and he began to review the contract striking out verbiage that he didn't like along the way. When he got done he said that's the only contract that he would sign. I said that he could sign it if he liked but our finance manager wouldn't sign it and Acura Finance wouldn't accept it even if he did. If he wanted to lease the car he would have to abide by Acura Finance's terms or he didn't get to lease it. In the end he signed the unedited contract and left with the car. I'm not sure to this day how or why he thought that he'd have any chance of getting to modify the terms of their lease.
Contracts are supposed to be negotiated. If it's take it as is or forget it, then that isn't much of a negotiation. I realize that big companies work that way, but that doesn't make it right. Also as a lawyer they may spend a significant amount of time negotiating contracts depending on their area of practice.
Good stuff to know. Just means my next dealer purchase transaction is going to take 2 hours.........longer.
Salesmen don't become liars, liars become salesmen
should I asked to see a ID of the dealer authorized representative to make sure that's not another salesmen signing the purchase agreement document. since they always lie.
I have in the past successfully made a dealership buy a used vehicle back
That is something you would figure out quickly but, not immediately.
its been a few years but i bought a truck as is and had a problem ask dealer about it said he wouldn't do any thing when i tried to get a part. found out the truck was a older than on the title i told him to take truck back or give me the right truck that i never received. he did buy it back. back then i didn't check the vin # now i do
i know when buying used parts dont ask the seller does this fit a XXXXX my specific car? answer will always be yes. instead ask what it was from, or what it will fit.
I bought a new car today (Accord). At the very beginning of the finance-office signing, (my first signature) was a document saying that I understand the entire transaction will be videotaped! As soon as I signed the document, on went the recording (at least I saw the camera). The finance guy did make some promises/explanations on the two add-on packages I bought, and on some I turned down. I wonder how long that will be stored? (I forgot to ask him.) Anyway--this was something new to me.
Oh Steve, Steve, Steve! My friend...used cars DO go back the used car lot. The do so via the AUTO AUCTION. But yeah...they will not give you a refund and take the vehicle back because part of the sale price went to the sales..."person" as commision and the lot isn't gonna ask an employee to give back their pay. The guy shoulda made sure about the FINAL DRIVE ratio before he bought the thing.
I'd hope it's against some sort of labor law preventing a business owner from taking pay back from an employee.
I was test driving a car once. I had to sign a form saying if I crashed the car it would be my fault. I crossed out that section and wrote not liable, initialed the form at the alteration and got the salesman to initial it too. He just looked at me like I was an idiot.
Would the alterations to the form be legally binding? Could you do the same thing on the purchase and sale?
you look at the door tag or call the service dept for the that make of truck and give them the vin number... ok yeah you just said that LOL
And since salesmen can lie, can't he/she say " I am an authorized representative for the deaaler" ?
Yes, drive shaft revolutions to tire turn.