Yes. Licence this out to various pack manufacturers. It’s a selling feature for a pack that your backpack frame is also a chair and that would let these guys sell more units.
The support piece looks like a shovel, and it SHOULD be one! I could see that being a valuable piece of kit for backcountry skiing and mountaineering especially in snow, because of the shovel.
Label it as a Swiss Army Seat. Multi-function: Snow shovel or paddle, first aid splint, chair, backpack frame, a shield, a snow sled. A lot of possibilities. The price is steep, especially in this economy. There will have to a focus on a warranty that drives home the selling point for me. Price and weight will be the main factors. I agree with the folks about creating it with more holes and use mesh for comfort and knock the weight down a bit. A backpack tailored to fit it would be a great addition.
The key word here is "Army". Surely the military would be an ideal customer of such a device. And they would be willing and able to pay the price too. Add in some of the other ideas being bandied around in the comments area and you've got a big market!
Looking at the surface area of both peices, so you think it is feasible that despite the obvious difference in shape, both pieces could still function as a pair of snow shoes in an emergency situation?
Adding to the list. Camp kitchen application as small table top, or surface to prep food. Wind break for stove. Cycling application as bike stand or platform to strap on more gear to a bike rack?. Going to the other end…any design adaptation to use as a toilet? Any way to design a cot frame with two or more?
I'm disabled and often need to sit down in public and cannot find benches. Because of my disabilty I also cannot carry a lot of weight on my spine. This would honestly be a game changer for me. I could go to more events that don't have seats. Please make one with backpack straps for urban people to use. ❤
@Westcoastrocksduh Degenerative disc disease. The discs in my spine have less cusion and I have arthritis, a spinal cyst and 5 herniated discs. It causes weakness in my legs.
I'm disabled too and I'm going to try to do the PCT next spring. I hope you can get better and do something fun like that. I'm getting a special wheeled cart so I don't have to carry anything on my back. I have artificial hips and knees plus 6 back surgeries and I'm on three 80mgs of oxy-contin and fentanyl patches but I have to get up and out and stay off the bed or couch that's not living and I hope you can get up and try to find a way to go back into the wilderness.
@@TheQuartzScepterMinerSIO2 I feel the same way! Laying in bed all day is not living so I get out as much as I can even with the constant pain. When you stop moving, your body only gets worse. I take lots of rest days too when I need them, but it's not a life if you only sit/lay indoors and never do things.
Nice work! Most people have no concept of how hard it is to take a product from a napkin to production...and then to market. I am stoked for these guys! Awesome that you gave them a chance to demo their product on your channel as well! Thank you.
@@oggyoggy1299 Depends on what you are making. I got a drone design done in 2 years, but that was my first serious project. Now I just have to get it on the market, which is a couple of mouse clicks away since it is a digital file for 3d printing. Just looking for the best platform. I suspect that once you have done it one time, it will be easier the next. Much of my time has gone towards learning the skills I need. You don't always get a brilliant idea in the field you are most familiar with.
@bulldog1080p Spoken like someone who has done nothing of importance. This design was never meant for commercial mass production and I did not claim it was in production, but the design process is exactly the same. It is safe to assume that you have no mechanical or design experience. Sorry but this product is not for you, it is a kit build that requires a minumum of IQ and practical sense to assemble. But it is also designed for injection molding and I am looking at some Iranian companies that are probably interested in this type of product ;)
As a Pacific Islander who is 6’3”, 310lbs and who loves to backpack - I am only met with the option of a floor mat to sit in the backcountry. I truly hope this seat holds (heh) up to what they claim. I’d be extremely grateful.
check out the walkstool. it doesn't have a back, but it's very compact and has versions of all sizes for bigger folks. i've had one for about a decade and it's never let me down.
Can't you hang out in the resting squat? In this video the creators say "If you stop for a 10 minute water break"...we easily squat for 10 minutes. For longer sit sessions, a mat would be more comfortable than a hard chair, and you can also sleep on it.
Mate I'm a poly 6'2, 368lbs I'm keen on touring Vietnam, Thailand, India and I am looking for a chair because the little plastic ones won't take my weight. Admittedly I would prefer to be a bit higher off the ground so would be prepared to have a longer chair as long as it didn't exceed the length dimensions for a bag on international travel.
I’m a complete gear snob and the price doesn’t bother me. Many good ideas here in the comments so I would listen to them. Emergency paddle, shovel, backpack frame support, etc… Can’t wait to see how this design evolves!
Honeycomb the entire thing and you’ll cut out a ton of weight. The carbon fiber can take it. Sell it in tolerances like 175lbs, 200lbs, 250lbs, 300lbs, etc. Don’t make someone 150lbs carry a chair for someone 300lbs.
Labor. That's extra machining time and a more complicated mold. The cost of the material isn't the mass so much as the complexity of the manufacturing. More complicated design with less material will usually cost more.
It’s not extra machining. You can set up the mold once and program your cnc machine once and it’ll run on autopilot for whatever item you want to fabricate. I can also tell from the look of the chair that they are using way too many carbon fiber layers and a lot of finishing product causing a bit of the weight.
He said exactly what I was thinking. It’s a space age Viking chair. I spent 8 years as a scoutmaster and a lot of weekends in an REI ultralight camp chair hiking. This is a game changer.
That type of chair design is actually not Viking or Scandinavian at all, as there is zero historical evidence for that. Its more of a Roman or African style historically. But yes, definitely a nice chair design.
I think the coolest part of this whole chair idea was the fact that they flew all the way out to get Dan’s opinion on it - on a product that’s never been seen before by anyone on the planet. Respect - love it. Creator economy ACTIVATE ;))
@@FlyFishDan Well, the concept for carbon fiber application may be new, but my people (American Indians) have been using this design for a long time using 2” X 12” wood planks for the chair material. Also if you attend the “National Mountain Man Rendezvous” in Friendship,Indiana you will see them everywhere. I have, back dating back to 1973 when it first started. That’s 51 years ago and they were already being used by those folks back then.
These two gents are in my mind emblematic of a region that has great ideas, and is an epicenter of outdoor culture, and OG backpacking culture. I wait in great anticipation of what all they might do.
I'm following this as a motorcyclist who camps. For us, it's the space a chair takes up, not the weight. All of the other chairs in this video take up a lot more space, when packed, than I'm happy to carry. This is a potential gamechanger for the likes of me.
Have you actually seen any of the others folded down? They are so much smaller. I have one that packs down to a somewhat flexible cylinder that is 12 inch long and 3 in in diameter. That huge stiff carbonfiber sheet is so impractical, you will need a large backpack to even carry it.
As an engineer myself, I think the simpler the better. As long as it gets the job done and it holds up just keep it as simple as humanly possible. I think these guys are on to a really good idea, and if they can find a way to integrate that as a backpack support frame as well then they've got a fantastic product on their hands.
I agree but unfortunately when dealing with sticker shock the consumer would generally want more features. I think if it was a backpack frame too then people would be fine with a price that high. They could maybe look at making it into an external frame
But at 3-400$ it’s going to be a tough sell. Although some of these people on you tube sure like to spend every dollar they make on gear just to have the latest and greatest. ( like some of these Luxury tent campers) Got 10K in a tent and gear.
He just highlighted Rova, he clicked the drop down menu and then he randomly selected Papyrus. Like a thoughtless child just wandering by a garden yanking leaves along the way.
It's a shovel, it's a back-up paddle, it's a backpack frame, buy the bicycle panier version, use as a shield from hail and bear paw claws, prevent grounding from lightning strikes. Gorgeous, just wish I would EVER be able to afford one. I've had one of the cheapest knock-off versions of the other chairs going on 12 years with no issues. Yes you could leave this in your will to your grandkids but.... Also, clip on cup holder, phone holder, easy way to connect to the outside of a pack.
If it were to be the frame of the backpack as well you could only use it when setting up camp, i.e. unpacking the backpack. That would remove the two mentioned advantages of 1) only taking 2 seconds to assemble, and 2) being quick enough to use even when taking a quick break while hiking.
The fact that you could stack 100's of these is a +. Their durability and longevity is key. I've seen many of those other chairs break many times. This hasn't all those moving parts. I would buy this.
I’d love to support this ,but their arrogance is over the top. Graphite doesn’t cost that much… At their price point I can wait for the Chinese knockoff.
Excellent adaptation of an ancient functional necessity inherited from our ancestors. As a lifelong fisherman, this is the perfect chair I have seen in my dreams !
I think they should pair with a Adventure Motorcycle Luggage Rack company and integrate them into the back side of the pannier bag carrier that is mounted to the bike👍🏻 Very cool product.
I do long distance ADV trips. Last year one trip took me 8 months and 20,000 kilometers (12000 miles). The parts of this chair are way too big to convenently fit on a motorcycle, Much taller than typical panniers and too long to fit sideways on the tail rack in a manner I would find useful. I like the concept but these are more suited to being kept in a car or truck than on a motorcycle.
@@rustyevolution6298 Agreed.. from Bikepacking, Moto camping, and backpacking, I really see this as a car/truck item rather than on two wheels. Backpacking and using it as a frame makes the most sense.
Their challenge fell short and while it's a good concept, the execution has largely failed if you read the comments. Several points of failure not mentioned include 1] multifunction being worked on, not ready. 2] not getting in front of the price objection. Their faces when Dan guessed less than half price. There were ways to handle that before it came up. Own your problems before they humiliate you. 3] not mentioned at all is the security aspect. No way I'm putting a $400 novelty piece of highly portable equipment out where it can easily be stolen. You can't put it in your bag or camouflage it. It just sits out there and invites theft.
@@Papadoc1000 It was a prototype. There are always problems. More importantly they acknowledged there were improvements to be made. Usually you only see the final draft because of comments like these. But because Dan, and his community understand this, he is rewarded with "sneak peaks."
We’ve made this chair at rendezvous events for years but it’s the 200 year old version of this out of two 2x10s. What these guys did is brilliant. I especially like how they made half of it a snow shovel. Luke at Outdoor Boys will love that.
as a fellow bushcrafter, i have never took a hiking chair in the backwoods but have made plenty of makeshift chairs out of old logs myself. would love to try something like this! take care and stay safe!
Already contacted a custom backpacker to incorporate it into an external frame backpack. This can also be a shovel, and table. So now you have a multiple use item, at 2 pounds. Then it makes it worth the weight and price. I need to be in RND for a company. Instead of a mechanic 🤣
1. Sell a version that is made of cheaper materials that may be heavier, market it to the soccer moms who wanna quick and easy chair that is easy to store in their Chevy suburban. make it cheaper and sell it in a stackable bundle for outdoor events. 2. Make a “pro” version made of carbon fiber and design it so that you can also use it as a shovel 3. Find a way to design a backpack around it.
If you don't backpack, you don't need/want this in any version. The whole point is to cut down on weight as much as possible. If you're just at home or car camping, you can bring the most comfortable, heavier chair, because the weight doesn't matter nearly as much. No way would I spend 300 dollars plus for even a taller version, even for backpacking, as it's both heavier and less comfortable than a chair that uses a fabric to sit on.
As a senior, I see its benefits because we need to sit from time to time while we are out and about and it’s light weight and we could hook up a strap so we could carry it cross body. However, I think the biggest drawback for us would be how low it sits. If you could make it a little higher, I’d buy it! Could you create two different sizes? The baby boomer generation is a large part of our population and needs light weight products that help them to be more active. It is very creative and an amazing chair! I wish you much success with it!
I saw it and was thinking "bog chair,bog chair, carbon fiber BOG CHAIR!" I wish I could afford one, and as a larger guy (290 lbs) it makes me smile seeing a chair that isn't "200 lbs limit"
I’m so glad you gave the “Viking Chair” props, I knew an old timer that we used to mountain bike with that had made one…thought it was the coolest thing when I first saw it! I was surprised how well it did in uneven ground, and when your backpack comes out it will be awesome! 🤙🏾
You would need to inlay either a 7075 Al alloy or steel edge to make it into a viable shovel. Carbon fibers biggest weakness is it's brittleness. It doesn't handle being struck against hard and/or sharp things well at all. Which is why a bike with a carbon frame really doesn't do well with accidents compared to steel, Al, Ti, magnesium alloy, etc bikes. You might get a little dent in the latter, but with carbon fiber, you'll get crushed and/or splintered parts. Carbon fibers's strength is its high tensile and stiffness strength for the weight. That (especially the latter), is what it does well. It really is not the best material for a shovel, unless it is only part of the core of the composite, and tougher materials are on the outside. A composite of say carbon fiber core, S2 glass or basalt cloth, with an 7075 Al or steel edge, would work much, much better than a pure C.F. + epoxy composite.
@@justinw1765 yeah saying make it a shovel has never worked with CF before. CF loves nice evenly applied load, it'll take that forever. Dynamic load, specially localised to bits of the structure... less good
As a fellow product developer, it’s good to know there are several levels of market value to position yourself in and it’s ok to not have cheapest price! There are millions of affluent people who WANT products that match their anticipated value!
It’s true, but you need to understand your market segment when designing the product and of course when marketing. At a higher price point the consumer expects a lot of other “plus” features that further eat your profit potential. They expect a comprehensive warranty, color/style options/customization, superior customer service, etc. It’s not as simple as offering a high end product to the marketplace and capturing the segment with expendable income. Think of it as mass market products are mouse traps that are inexpensive, proven, and catch almost any mouse with a generic piece of cheese. The luxury version is a high end trap designed to catch one specific mouse named Stephen David Mauser with very finicky tastes and a paranoid personality. Wealthy consumers don’t just spend more on items because they can. It has to improve their quality of life enough to offset the idea of parting with their precious money. They are wealthy because they are good at making money and VERY good at not spending any unnecessary money. Understand your prey and not just your product design. Too many build something and then figure out how to sell it for a profit later. Note: I have a background in marketing, psychology, business development, and software. Clients get overwhelmed at what goes into market analysis for new products all the time. Contact me if you want to brainstorm for free sometime.
Amazing!!! That chair can be used as a chair and it can be used as a tool. Like a shovel for clearing snow or debris from your camp ground. so many uses!
Paying 3x the price of a chair zero for a heavier chair that looks WAY less comfortable is a no go for me, but glad to see a new take on the camping chair
Wow, that chair is The BOMB! I want one! Great presentation video from them, and great q&a discussion from you as usual Dan, you always seem to ask all the right questions. I think you are up there with Stern on the interviews, without the pervy craziness of course lol. Great Job Dan! And great job from the guys who developed the ROVA. It will be on my wish list!
Two things come to mind are: 1) Model it to attach to the latest fad of Electric bikes for breaks maybe with a little table for lunch or picnic. 2) older folks like me have issues getting up or down when so close to the ground, maybe there could be taller seat somehow or a way to attach to elevate it on a milk crate or something? You likely have something there! Good luck!
I'm not a backpacker, but I bet a larger, heavier version of this chair made from aluminum would do well with tent campers, van lifers, people who need something comfy that packs small but are less concerned with weight than a backpacker. You could get eight of these in the garage of a Sprinter in the space of four folding chairs. Even if they were made larger so they'd sit higher off the ground and have a wider seat pan, they'd still be smaller and way quicker to set up and take down than any fabric chair, plus if they were aluminum they'd be completely fireproof around a camp fire.
This is exactly what I've been using for years, but mine is made from 2x12's. I DO NOT carry it backpacking, but for sitting around camp and relaxing, this type of chair is very comfortable.
As a rural LEO this looks intriguing. Everything from a chair for breaks on sar, or letting a non injured mva sit on when the adrenaline fades, to a mini backboard when needing a hard surface to do chest compressions. I certainly wouldnt complain if they wanted to donate a few to my tiny department for us to toss behind the truck seat 😂.
This is super cool. I love the innovation and the completely novel approach to the design over existing chairs and the quick set up time. I expect the price will come down as they eventually scale over time. I won’t be an early adopter but it’s neat. Thermoplastics would be an interesting way to explore maybe get cost/weight down. Perhaps latch points built into the design to attach it to packs in various ways? Maybe that’s not needed though Or form a partnership and licence these to a backpack manufacturer. You guys make the frame and supply it to them. Imagine a backpack manufacturer being able to market their frame doubles as a chair! This would allow them to sell more units without the capitol intensive job of starting their own backpack company.
Very simple and effective. As a bike packer, it wouldn’t work as too bulky to store on the bike, but if that got incorporated in to a high end frame for a backpack. I would 100% but it for hiking trips. I love ingenuity and change and this is that. Cost is subjective as they said. It should last a lifetime. No helinox chair will ever last a lifetime
making the seat into a snow shovel by reinforcing the cutting edge would be a total game changer and help with price justification also the back pack frame concept is a winner
Heads up, the name Viking chair is not Viking historical. We haven’t found chairs like that in Norway or other Viking areas, but it has been found in the past.
Whew...Dan that's steep man. I bought the Helinox chair zero (high back) after watching your review and I took that up Mount Elbert with me with a full Kelty Redwing 50 pack (my absolute favorite travel pack for going anywhere). I'm not worried so much about weight nor am I worried about cost, but $400-$500 for a chair is far too steep. I get it, it's CF, it's super fast and easy to set up, and had I had that chair I probably would have used it more than my Helinox on that climb, but that slightly extra bit of inconvenience for the 1 minute of pull out and set up time for the Helinox vs the less than 30 seconds doesn't justify the sharp difference in price.
The nature of carbon fiber construction makes skeletonizing the seat portion less of an option, internally rigid structure with low weight infill is probably where the strength comes from.
This is awesome. My issue with the Helinox is that it is still cloth that can catch an ember. I am a bigger gut (300 lbs. 6'7) and none of the light weigh back packing chairs hold me. If they could have color options that would be huge. Once they have it as a pack frame..... take my money!
Absolutely interested! I usually don't carry a chair, I don't bother because of the frustration of the setup time and tbh the weight. The idea of incorporating it as a pack frame would be a game changer, especially if it stayed really easy to use in a short time (like a water break). Super cool idea, I will be watching the evolution of this product for sure.
So many backpack “innovations” are simply just tweaks on what’s already available. But this truly is completely different from anything out there. I love how they took the simplicity of an ancient design and made it modern. It’s absolutely brilliant. Although it’s not something I’d be ready to invest in myself (I’m still somewhat young, so a small pad as a seat will suit me fine for now), if they can figure out how to shave some weight off and turn it into a multipurpose item (i.e. a backpack frame as they said, and maybe turn the seat portion into a shovel), I could see this flying off the shelves. It’s been fun watching Dan Durston’s progress over the years as he takes input from his customers. If these guys are as willing to listen to input from everyone around them, it’ll be fun to see what this product will turn into!
I bet everybody is asking themselves: "How the hell did nobody come out with a product like this yet?" - And that's a great indicator of a good product!
The gear we select should be multiple purpose. I would take chair car camping, to the beach, sporting / music events and kids rec games. All sorts of accessories could be builtin or removable/ reconfigurable to meet mission specs.
@@flomax_actual I really doubt the audience they are targeting with this are hiking with glass bottles. Sure it's nice when gear is multifunctional, but it's kinda important the function is even a desired one. Having the chair act as a frame in a pack, that's function that make sense. Randomly adding a feature most don't want, that only adds overall weight, is not a good idea. There's no way they are going to build in a reconfigurable bottle opener that's going to weigh less than just carrying a bottle opener separately. Not to mention your pack and plain old surroundings are probably filled with things you can open a bottle with.
I don’t backpack much any more, but I do take a daily walk. Usually I can find a park bench or bus bench to sit down if I need to or want to. But I recently made a collapsible stool to take with me to open up wherever I want. I don’t know what they call the design I’ve used. I saw a couple RUclips woodworkers make one. Woodworking for Mere Mortals has a nice PDF. I made several modifications to mine to make it even better. I’d like to make one out of something lighter than wood, but the one I have is pretty good for just walking around town. It puts me 15 inches off the ground. But it doesn’t have a back. If I put it close to a wall or tree, I have a back. But a real back would be nice. I have one of those chairs that takes minutes to assemble, but, you are correct, assembly is a real inhibitor for quick breaks. The collapsible stool that I made fits into my small everyday backpack. Snaps open, snaps closed, easy. This “Viking” design would not fit into that backpack. Overall, the whole “Viking” design seems slightly impractical. It’s two very long pieces, which, in the end, don’t give you much of a chair. It does give you a back, which is nice. But it puts you much lower to the ground than my stool, or those other assembly chairs. That, to me, is an issue. I wish you had measured just how close to the ground you are in that chair. It looked hard to get into and out of. Especially for old people.The back also seemed to be at a much more reclined angle than you would be in an assembled chair. Nice for relaxing, but maybe not so good for socializing around the campfire. People talk about making it be the frame of a large backpack. I would want to know the details how that would work. How it would hold the heavy contents of a backpack, be comfortable against you back for a day of walking, and be easily detached from that pack for quick breaks. Because of my interest in having something to take with me inside my everyday backpack, I was hoping there could be a way to have the very long pieces fold to half their length in storage and unfold into the two long pieces. But that would probably either be impossible, or add too much bulk, weight and cost. I’m working on my own chair design that will hopefully fit into my everyday backpack, put me about 15 inches off the ground, like the collapsible stool I’ve been using, and… have a back. I’ll only be able to make it out of wood for now, so I will not be super lightweight. But if it works, maybe I’ll attempt to make it out of aluminum. And if that works… maybe carbon fiber!
Add 6 tiny paracord holes on each piece in the right spots, and they would be great emergency show shoes as well as a snow/sand shovel. Great invention!!!
I have an Alite Butterfly and I noticed something on my last trip. Because the Butterfly doesn’t self support, I had an unconscious tendency to stand while doing random tasks instead of sitting to do them. Sitting required an intentional effort to get into the chair. After about an hour standing around camp I thought, damn I’m tired. Very similar psychology in not sitting for midday breaks. A frameless pack with a sleeve for this chair would be a perfect combo. Cut some weight and cost and I’m in.
right away i thought of a few things this chair can be used for: 1) shovel for snow (the seat is shovel shaped and you could also use the back piece as it would have more strength and has multiple hand holds) 2) you could use the seat as an oar 3) it would have to be tested, but possible use the back piece under a car/atv wheel to get out of a patch of ice or slick mud? 4) you could use the back as a carrier for firewood. this thing is definitely on my list now
I don't think it even needs to be the frame of the back pack... it just needs to absolutely nest neatly into the most back packs and lay flat where it needs to. That and it needs to be much much cheaper than the competitors. If it can do that, it's an absolute winner. Definitely be watching this one.
Personally, I don't think it has to be cheaper than the other chair types. It's creating a whole new option in the market. But if they can bring it down some, that would help a lot.
They need to offer an aluminun and thermoplastic version to get the price down. Carbob fiber is hella expensive to manufacture. Dan Durston's Zfkicks are two carbon fiber thin poles and they are $70
@@lakorai2 I'm not disagreeing that having them be more affordable would be nice, if that would work. :) Not sure if could be made as stable or light that way, but worth testing, after they fine-tune this version and get it the way they want it.
@@My_name_is_BrettI know a couple old guys with bad knees that will probably out walk a lot of young guys. The only difference is they will need to eat a bottle of Advil later while you probably won’t
Obviously being that it was designed for outdoor usage for hikers I'm assuming that your knees would be good if you're purchasing this thing for hiking, if you're not hiking and you're not an outdoor adventurer I'd say just buy a 30 dollar Walmart seat and you'll be good to go . But when you're buying this for its purpose that's been built for which is the outdoor enthusiast to go hiking with I'm assuming these wouldn't be too much of an issue at that point for this specific product
@@Noneyabiz001 The problem is that all that would complain about knee problems would also be not comfy in the other chairs because they are also so low.
A Viking carbon fiber chair! How Awesome! For backpacking the 2+ lbs is too heavy. Also it seems to sit lower than current chairs. That’s a problem for folks with knee issues. So carrying, height of seat, weight, and cost are the issues. Once they get that dialed in, it will be a best seller!
Outsource the production, build in the some holes to accommodate multiple strap options to attach to a back, get the weight down to 1.5 lbs, and the price to $150 and you will OWN the hiking chair market.
@@MindBodySoulOk It's carbon fiber... You're going to have to wait for the crappier chinese knockoff to come out in a few years if you want to pay anywhere close to $30.
I'll pay almost anything for a good product made in the USA. I pray for the day the Chinese economy burns. No one holds themselves to a standard anymore. As long as it costs nothing and lasts one use, no one cares if it ends up in a landfill a week after purchase 🤢 consumerism is icky and outsourcing is part of the problem.
Yes I agree they must outsource production cost will tumble. They will need to be patent police with a design so easy to copy but this is the way. Early entrepreneurs greatly underestimate the costs of DIY production vs the efficiency and quality of factory production. High end machine tooling must work 247 and that isn't viable in a small business. Also it looks like they are vacuum bagging it. Lots of consumable expenses for a product that could and should be made using compression molding in a 2 part mold.
The ONLY thing that concerns me is that it is so low to the ground. If it sat higher and didn't lean back too much, it would be more ergonomic for older people.😊
I like it. My concern would be sitting on rocks. Would the rocks eventually cause the carbon fiber to wear down and crack? I would cover mine in travel sticker btw.... Please send me one for review!!!!
No, you can’t put this everywhere. The advantage of the other chairs is that you can position it over certain things so you can position it over a rock or you can move it around because you have the legs to do so. The other chairs you can have on a slight angle and still be comfortable this unfortunately is not meant for true backpacking or canoe camping or for the person that would be spending $400 on chair , this is like the Tesla truck looks good in theory, but practically unuseable
I love it. I feel for them though. Coming to a Temu/alibabi near you. Not carbon fiber, not well-made, Probably won’t even hold half the weight, but post haste and $20. I will definitely buy one of these guys’ chairs. Love. It.
Dan, please get these guys to market to sailors as well..change the chair color to bright orange..(or whatever) Perfect to put in your dinghy when at anchor and take to the beach bonfire. I'm in for both backpacking & sailing.
Not at that price. My truck doesn't care if my chair weighs 4 pounds but I care that it's super comfy, has a drink holder, a side fold out for my dinner, and a organizer for my phone, keys, etc. on it.
100% would love to see this as a pack frame!! Closer to 1.5 lb would be great too. Ditch the magnets too, in the field they'll collect a bunch of junk.
Grow up ! Old design copied with new materials - investment cost substantial but once they knock them out with volume moulds cheap as chips. You’ll do well at a sensible price but don’t take the piss please.
If you are a camp chair consumer, how many chairs have you been through in the last 5-10 years, and what do you think they all cost in today's dollars?
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They really should partner with a backpack manufacturer. Once this chair is also a frame for a pack, it's a different ball game.
And the seat is a spare paddle for canoeing.
Yes. Licence this out to various pack manufacturers. It’s a selling feature for a pack that your backpack frame is also a chair and that would let these guys sell more units.
That’s what I thought this was when they first pulled it out
Agreed, that's the only way this idea works.
i JUST HELPED THESE GUYS OUT AND BOUGHT TWO
The support piece looks like a shovel, and it SHOULD be one! I could see that being a valuable piece of kit for backcountry skiing and mountaineering especially in snow, because of the shovel.
Or an emergency canoe paddle.
Or a mini toboggan for downhill sections lol.
In a snow your chair is useless, it will sink in a snow
That chair looks like it would work great in the snow. - Said No One Ever
no lol. it will break instantly
Label it as a Swiss Army Seat. Multi-function: Snow shovel or paddle, first aid splint, chair, backpack frame, a shield, a snow sled. A lot of possibilities. The price is steep, especially in this economy. There will have to a focus on a warranty that drives home the selling point for me. Price and weight will be the main factors. I agree with the folks about creating it with more holes and use mesh for comfort and knock the weight down a bit. A backpack tailored to fit it would be a great addition.
The key word here is "Army". Surely the military would be an ideal customer of such a device. And they would be willing and able to pay the price too. Add in some of the other ideas being bandied around in the comments area and you've got a big market!
Looking at the surface area of both peices, so you think it is feasible that despite the obvious difference in shape, both pieces could still function as a pair of snow shoes in an emergency situation?
@nickmontanaro9638 snow shoes? Probably not. I can a snow shovel and maybe a small snow sled but that's about it for snow.
Market it like this for preppers, they would love it.
Adding to the list. Camp kitchen application as small table top, or surface to prep food. Wind break for stove. Cycling application as bike stand or platform to strap on more gear to a bike rack?. Going to the other end…any design adaptation to use as a toilet? Any way to design a cot frame with two or more?
I'm disabled and often need to sit down in public and cannot find benches. Because of my disabilty I also cannot carry a lot of weight on my spine. This would honestly be a game changer for me. I could go to more events that don't have seats. Please make one with backpack straps for urban people to use. ❤
Underrated comment and the company damn well better read this.
Yes that's a great idea! 👍🏼
@Westcoastrocksduh Degenerative disc disease. The discs in my spine have less cusion and I have arthritis, a spinal cyst and 5 herniated discs. It causes weakness in my legs.
I'm disabled too and I'm going to try to do the PCT next spring. I hope you can get better and do something fun like that. I'm getting a special wheeled cart so I don't have to carry anything on my back. I have artificial hips and knees plus 6 back surgeries and I'm on three 80mgs of oxy-contin and fentanyl patches but I have to get up and out and stay off the bed or couch that's not living and I hope you can get up and try to find a way to go back into the wilderness.
@@TheQuartzScepterMinerSIO2 I feel the same way! Laying in bed all day is not living so I get out as much as I can even with the constant pain. When you stop moving, your body only gets worse. I take lots of rest days too when I need them, but it's not a life if you only sit/lay indoors and never do things.
Nice work! Most people have no concept of how hard it is to take a product from a napkin to production...and then to market. I am stoked for these guys! Awesome that you gave them a chance to demo their product on your channel as well! Thank you.
Well said on both counts!
Why don’t you have any concept of how hard it is?
@@oggyoggy1299 Depends on what you are making. I got a drone design done in 2 years, but that was my first serious project. Now I just have to get it on the market, which is a couple of mouse clicks away since it is a digital file for 3d printing. Just looking for the best platform.
I suspect that once you have done it one time, it will be easier the next. Much of my time has gone towards learning the skills I need. You don't always get a brilliant idea in the field you are most familiar with.
@bulldog1080p Spoken like someone who has done nothing of importance. This design was never meant for commercial mass production and I did not claim it was in production, but the design process is exactly the same.
It is safe to assume that you have no mechanical or design experience. Sorry but this product is not for you, it is a kit build that requires a minumum of IQ and practical sense to assemble.
But it is also designed for injection molding and I am looking at some Iranian companies that are probably interested in this type of product ;)
As a Pacific Islander who is 6’3”, 310lbs and who loves to backpack - I am only met with the option of a floor mat to sit in the backcountry. I truly hope this seat holds (heh) up to what they claim. I’d be extremely grateful.
check out the walkstool. it doesn't have a back, but it's very compact and has versions of all sizes for bigger folks. i've had one for about a decade and it's never let me down.
@@fiveletters I’ll take anything over the ground mat. I appreciate you!
The angle of that chair doesnt look very comfortable ngl. The prototype they brought though.... looks good
Can't you hang out in the resting squat? In this video the creators say "If you stop for a 10 minute water break"...we easily squat for 10 minutes.
For longer sit sessions, a mat would be more comfortable than a hard chair, and you can also sleep on it.
Mate I'm a poly 6'2, 368lbs I'm keen on touring Vietnam, Thailand, India and I am looking for a chair because the little plastic ones won't take my weight. Admittedly I would prefer to be a bit higher off the ground so would be prepared to have a longer chair as long as it didn't exceed the length dimensions for a bag on international travel.
Cut a hole in the seat, double as a crapper and I'm sold!!
That would make a lot of sense. Otherwise it's just another crap product.
Just make a second seat option. Then charge me $350US...
@@trevorf1838🤣
Brilliant 🤔
Great mind
I’m a complete gear snob and the price doesn’t bother me. Many good ideas here in the comments so I would listen to them. Emergency paddle, shovel, backpack frame support, etc… Can’t wait to see how this design evolves!
Honeycomb the entire thing and you’ll cut out a ton of weight. The carbon fiber can take it. Sell it in tolerances like 175lbs, 200lbs, 250lbs, 300lbs, etc. Don’t make someone 150lbs carry a chair for someone 300lbs.
This! 👆
That's great feedback!!!
Labor. That's extra machining time and a more complicated mold. The cost of the material isn't the mass so much as the complexity of the manufacturing. More complicated design with less material will usually cost more.
@@YoureSoVane but the upside for those of us smaller is less weight to carry.
It’s not extra machining. You can set up the mold once and program your cnc machine once and it’ll run on autopilot for whatever item you want to fabricate. I can also tell from the look of the chair that they are using way too many carbon fiber layers and a lot of finishing product causing a bit of the weight.
He said exactly what I was thinking. It’s a space age Viking chair. I spent 8 years as a scoutmaster and a lot of weekends in an REI ultralight camp chair hiking. This is a game changer.
That type of chair design is actually not Viking or Scandinavian at all, as there is zero historical evidence for that. Its more of a Roman or African style historically. But yes, definitely a nice chair design.
I think the coolest part of this whole chair idea was the fact that they flew all the way out to get Dan’s opinion on it - on a product that’s never been seen before by anyone on the planet. Respect - love it. Creator economy ACTIVATE ;))
did not expect the fly fish dan - dan becker crossover, but i'm here for it lol
That product by that company may have never been seen before... but the design is old a rusty nails.
@@FlyFishDan Well, the concept for carbon fiber application may be new, but my people (American Indians) have been using this design for a long time using 2” X 12” wood planks for the chair material. Also if you attend the “National Mountain Man Rendezvous” in Friendship,Indiana you will see them everywhere. I have, back dating back to 1973 when it first started. That’s 51 years ago and they were already being used by those folks back then.
These two gents are in my mind emblematic of a region that has great ideas, and is an epicenter of outdoor culture, and OG backpacking culture. I wait in great anticipation of what all they might do.
It’s a carbon fibre Viking chair. They’ve been around for thousands of years. 😂😂😂
I'm following this as a motorcyclist who camps. For us, it's the space a chair takes up, not the weight. All of the other chairs in this video take up a lot more space, when packed, than I'm happy to carry. This is a potential gamechanger for the likes of me.
As a cyclist, that was my first thought too. They say it's not the first viking chair on the market, but the others are about 10lbs.
The folded length is too long for motorcycle luggage
Have you actually seen any of the others folded down? They are so much smaller.
I have one that packs down to a somewhat flexible cylinder that is 12 inch long and 3 in in diameter.
That huge stiff carbonfiber sheet is so impractical, you will need a large backpack to even carry it.
those small chairs are fckng tiny packed up mate!
@@meldert exactly - as you say, those other bucket style chairs fold down into a really really small pack!
As an engineer myself, I think the simpler the better. As long as it gets the job done and it holds up just keep it as simple as humanly possible. I think these guys are on to a really good idea, and if they can find a way to integrate that as a backpack support frame as well then they've got a fantastic product on their hands.
I agree but unfortunately when dealing with sticker shock the consumer would generally want more features.
I think if it was a backpack frame too then people would be fine with a price that high.
They could maybe look at making it into an external frame
@@JustJ001The “KISS PRINCIPLE” comes to mind. We used that acronym extensively in the Military “Keep It Simple, Stupid”.
$400 for a midget chair? GTFOH.
But at 3-400$ it’s going to be a tough sell. Although some of these people on you tube sure like to spend every dollar they make on gear just to have the latest and greatest. ( like some of these Luxury tent campers) Got 10K in a tent and gear.
@@mkeller8114 I think this chair is going to be one of those "buy once cry once" items.
There are so many ways to add utility and function to this. Great start. Excited to see where it goes.
My thoughts too looks like a shovel to me and a great way to keep bag dry when putting it down
Yeah, the seat part looks like a shovel to me or even an emergency paddle for a raft
The sticker shock is real. If they can get the weight down by even a half pound and make it part of a pack, it's more viable.
@@Itll_do_food_forest This thing will sell massively if they can just lower the cost a couple hundred bucks.
They are right though, the cost isn't that bad when you consider that it should last a lifetime. Buy once, cry once.
I would seriously consider 4 chairs for $1,000…..SanJoséBob
@@SanJoseBob said no one ever
I have a TOBTOS.
This is Genius, but,
I'm sure how it would work and soft soil and sand, & WAY too much $$$$!
He just highlighted Rova, he clicked the drop down menu and then he randomly selected Papyrus. Like a thoughtless child just wandering by a garden yanking leaves along the way.
These guys should definitely watch the SNL skit before it’s too late
"You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie...!"
This comment wins
He was probably looking for something that maybe resembled ancient handwriting. Should have used runes since he was going for an viking theme
He just got away with it.
It's a shovel, it's a back-up paddle, it's a backpack frame, buy the bicycle panier version, use as a shield from hail and bear paw claws, prevent grounding from lightning strikes. Gorgeous, just wish I would EVER be able to afford one. I've had one of the cheapest knock-off versions of the other chairs going on 12 years with no issues. Yes you could leave this in your will to your grandkids but.... Also, clip on cup holder, phone holder, easy way to connect to the outside of a pack.
A shovel? Guess what happens to -carbon- any fiber when you scratch the surface enough?
Haha a shield from bear claws! That is hilarious!
Once this chair is also the frame of a backpack it will be the greatest chair on earth!
This would effectively reduce the cost and weight of the chair as you remove the cost and weight associated with a frame
If it were to be the frame of the backpack as well you could only use it when setting up camp, i.e. unpacking the backpack.
That would remove the two mentioned advantages of 1) only taking 2 seconds to assemble, and 2) being quick enough to use even when taking a quick break while hiking.
@@perkjellqvist2329 Evén 10 seconds would be still advantage over other chairs.
@@Temporalplace Agreed, if it would just take 10 seconds to remove the frame from the backpack.
😂😂😂😂 will it though!! You wouldn’t be able to sit on it for more than ten minutes before it became very uncomfortable.
The fact that you could stack 100's of these is a +. Their durability and longevity is key. I've seen many of those other chairs break many times. This hasn't all those moving parts. I would buy this.
for $350.00?
@@aintchorrollmodel182 yeah 350 is pushing it
I’d love to support this ,but their arrogance is over the top. Graphite doesn’t cost that much… At their price point I can wait for the Chinese knockoff.
@@phyju That was before I found out the cost. I stopped watching after about half way.
@@kupua you're part of the problem.
These guys are so genuine and down to Earth I want to buy their product.
Excellent adaptation of an ancient functional necessity inherited from our ancestors. As a lifelong fisherman, this is the perfect chair I have seen in my dreams !
It has to be a Lifetime Guarantee no question asked and no receipt required to justify the price.
Till they go out of business 🤣🤣
Yeah, it should be free and they should deliver to the middle of nowhere where I'm hiking by helicopter.
I mean there’s literally no way for it to deteriorate unless you physically do something to it. It’ll be around in 500 years.
@@Raudiaudi depends on the resin
Maybe if you lay it outside 24/7
Sticker shock for sure. Cool concept. Wish these dudes the best. Hopefully they can get the price down
Same thoughts.
If i was a backpacker or hiker, i would find every ounce of energy and scapegoating to get this chair. Love the simplistic design with modern touch.
I think they should pair with a Adventure Motorcycle Luggage Rack company and integrate them into the back side of the pannier bag carrier that is mounted to the bike👍🏻
Very cool product.
That is a sweet idea.
This is a better idea than selling them as a backpacking seat.
Then we would buy a pair
I do long distance ADV trips. Last year one trip took me 8 months and 20,000 kilometers (12000 miles). The parts of this chair are way too big to convenently fit on a motorcycle, Much taller than typical panniers and too long to fit sideways on the tail rack in a manner I would find useful. I like the concept but these are more suited to being kept in a car or truck than on a motorcycle.
@@rustyevolution6298 Agreed.. from Bikepacking, Moto camping, and backpacking, I really see this as a car/truck item rather than on two wheels. Backpacking and using it as a frame makes the most sense.
Dan challenges the community. The community responds. Thank you Dan ❤
Their challenge fell short and while it's a good concept, the execution has largely failed if you read the comments. Several points of failure not mentioned include 1] multifunction being worked on, not ready. 2] not getting in front of the price objection. Their faces when Dan guessed less than half price. There were ways to handle that before it came up. Own your problems before they humiliate you. 3] not mentioned at all is the security aspect. No way I'm putting a $400 novelty piece of highly portable equipment out where it can easily be stolen. You can't put it in your bag or camouflage it. It just sits out there and invites theft.
@@Papadoc1000
It was a prototype. There are always problems. More importantly they acknowledged there were improvements to be made. Usually you only see the final draft because of comments like these. But because Dan, and his community understand this, he is rewarded with "sneak peaks."
We’ve made this chair at rendezvous events for years but it’s the 200 year old version of this out of two 2x10s. What these guys did is brilliant. I especially like how they made half of it a snow shovel. Luke at Outdoor Boys will love that.
not sure why the algorithm recommended this video, i have no need for a camping chair but now i am thinking of reasons to buy one
Likewise. Considering taking up a sport that requires one. Does watching my kids on the trampoline count?
@@lugaretzia Definitely. And uses will present themselves. But be warned, your kids are going to steal it.
Old design, new materials. Awesome.
yup, I recognized the african palaver chair right away.
We buscrafters have been making this for YEARS in the woods. Good to see communities coming together.
as a fellow bushcrafter, i have never took a hiking chair in the backwoods but have made plenty of makeshift chairs out of old logs myself. would love to try something like this! take care and stay safe!
NOT out of carbon fiber
@@KylerTony45 🤣👍
Already contacted a custom backpacker to incorporate it into an external frame backpack. This can also be a shovel, and table. So now you have a multiple use item, at 2 pounds. Then it makes it worth the weight and price. I need to be in RND for a company. Instead of a mechanic 🤣
@@KylerTony45 Why would you use carbon fiber for a chair that you leave in the woods afterwrds 🤣
1. Sell a version that is made of cheaper materials that may be heavier, market it to the soccer moms who wanna quick and easy chair that is easy to store in their Chevy suburban. make it cheaper and sell it in a stackable bundle for outdoor events.
2. Make a “pro” version made of carbon fiber and design it so that you can also use it as a shovel
3. Find a way to design a backpack around it.
GREAT video - glad you invited the guys out - would love to see more prototype videos - very cool
Love this concept. I'm too old for backpacking but would like to see a "comfort height" version.
Yes!
@utubetjc if you are not having to carry it far make one out of wood. It is a easy design.
I would buy one IF it was higher off the ground. Old knees have a harder time getting up and down.
Because the „concept“ is a „viking chair“ from centuries ago. They made it out of carbon instead of wood, but the concept itself is nothing new…
If you don't backpack, you don't need/want this in any version. The whole point is to cut down on weight as much as possible. If you're just at home or car camping, you can bring the most comfortable, heavier chair, because the weight doesn't matter nearly as much.
No way would I spend 300 dollars plus for even a taller version, even for backpacking, as it's both heavier and less comfortable than a chair that uses a fabric to sit on.
As a senior, I see its benefits because we need to sit from time to time while we are out and about and it’s light weight and we could hook up a strap so we could carry it cross body. However, I think the biggest drawback for us would be how low it sits. If you could make it a little higher, I’d buy it! Could you create two different sizes? The baby boomer generation is a large part of our population and needs light weight products that help them to be more active. It is very creative and an amazing chair! I wish you much success with it!
The higher it sits the more weight it will have.
maybe they could cut additional slots in it. you could sit low and have more back or sit high and have less.
@@Temporalplacethe weight gain is worth the higher ground clearance. Older people need the height to sit and stand up.
@@prst99 Then buy any camping chair for 40$, weight is already the same.
@Temporalplace
But not the convenience of a quick and easy set-up, right?
I saw it and was thinking "bog chair,bog chair, carbon fiber BOG CHAIR!" I wish I could afford one, and as a larger guy (290 lbs) it makes me smile seeing a chair that isn't "200 lbs limit"
larger? or fat?
That’s a great looking chair. If it was a bit cheaper, I’d buy that. The idea of making it part of a backpack is a good one. That’s brilliant.
Can definitely see the arcteryx crowd loving this thing.
I’m so glad you gave the “Viking Chair” props, I knew an old timer that we used to mountain bike with that had made one…thought it was the coolest thing when I first saw it! I was surprised how well it did in uneven ground, and when your backpack comes out it will be awesome! 🤙🏾
The seat needs to be a shovel. If you backpack, you want each piece of kit to do as much as possible. This is awesome.
You would need to inlay either a 7075 Al alloy or steel edge to make it into a viable shovel. Carbon fibers biggest weakness is it's brittleness. It doesn't handle being struck against hard and/or sharp things well at all. Which is why a bike with a carbon frame really doesn't do well with accidents compared to steel, Al, Ti, magnesium alloy, etc bikes. You might get a little dent in the latter, but with carbon fiber, you'll get crushed and/or splintered parts.
Carbon fibers's strength is its high tensile and stiffness strength for the weight. That (especially the latter), is what it does well. It really is not the best material for a shovel, unless it is only part of the core of the composite, and tougher materials are on the outside. A composite of say carbon fiber core, S2 glass or basalt cloth, with an 7075 Al or steel edge, would work much, much better than a pure C.F. + epoxy composite.
How bout a seat / shovel / .... spare paddle !?
Indeed. In fact it needs to be a Swiss army knife of chairs to justify the price tag.
@@justinw1765 and still, carbon is way better to repair then every material you mentioned above but the metal plate is a must for a shovel for sure.
@@justinw1765 yeah saying make it a shovel has never worked with CF before. CF loves nice evenly applied load, it'll take that forever. Dynamic load, specially localised to bits of the structure... less good
As a fellow product developer, it’s good to know there are several levels of market value to position yourself in and it’s ok to not have cheapest price!
There are millions of affluent people who WANT products that match their anticipated value!
It’s true, but you need to understand your market segment when designing the product and of course when marketing. At a higher price point the consumer expects a lot of other “plus” features that further eat your profit potential. They expect a comprehensive warranty, color/style options/customization, superior customer service, etc. It’s not as simple as offering a high end product to the marketplace and capturing the segment with expendable income. Think of it as mass market products are mouse traps that are inexpensive, proven, and catch almost any mouse with a generic piece of cheese. The luxury version is a high end trap designed to catch one specific mouse named Stephen David Mauser with very finicky tastes and a paranoid personality.
Wealthy consumers don’t just spend more on items because they can. It has to improve their quality of life enough to offset the idea of parting with their precious money. They are wealthy because they are good at making money and VERY good at not spending any unnecessary money.
Understand your prey and not just your product design. Too many build something and then figure out how to sell it for a profit later.
Note: I have a background in marketing, psychology, business development, and software. Clients get overwhelmed at what goes into market analysis for new products all the time. Contact me if you want to brainstorm for free sometime.
Its super nice to see such innovative thinking. These guys will figure out how to over come some of the price and carrying issues.
Amazing!!! That chair can be used as a chair and it can be used as a tool. Like a shovel for clearing snow or debris from your camp ground. so many uses!
The fact that one oart of the chair can be the grame of a backpack and the other one a shovel for snow is mindblowing to me.
I saw an Oar for a raft as well.
I was thinking the same.
Viking chair + fast forward to 2024 technology 🎉 Greetings from Norway
Haha was a little proud too🇳🇴
We're heading your way in the fall. Then Iceland.
Paying 3x the price of a chair zero for a heavier chair that looks WAY less comfortable is a no go for me, but glad to see a new take on the camping chair
Looks harder to pack and the benefit of setting up during a water break does not justify all the downsides.
Especially when the weight of a chair zero plus a small foam pad for water breaks is cheaper and lighter than this
someone not taken in by the hype...IT'S NOT RELAXING BOYS - Wouldn't have it as a gift
The Chinese can make this for 70 dollars and it will be stronger and ligther. Carbon fiber is dirt cheap nowadays.
My thoughts exactly
Wow, that chair is The BOMB! I want one! Great presentation video from them, and great q&a discussion from you as usual Dan, you always seem to ask all the right questions. I think you are up there with Stern on the interviews, without the pervy craziness of course lol. Great Job Dan! And great job from the guys who developed the ROVA. It will be on my wish list!
Two things come to mind are:
1) Model it to attach to the latest fad of Electric bikes for breaks maybe with a little table for lunch or picnic.
2) older folks like me have issues getting up or down when so close to the ground, maybe there could be taller seat somehow or a way to attach to elevate it on a milk crate or something?
You likely have something there! Good luck!
The taller the pieces, the more stress on the structure.
Like the electric bike idea
The first thing that came to my mind when I saw this - What a nice way to utilize avalanche shovel.
Like it very much
I'm super impressed. It's a lifetime chair. I love it.
I'm not a backpacker, but I bet a larger, heavier version of this chair made from aluminum would do well with tent campers, van lifers, people who need something comfy that packs small but are less concerned with weight than a backpacker.
You could get eight of these in the garage of a Sprinter in the space of four folding chairs. Even if they were made larger so they'd sit higher off the ground and have a wider seat pan, they'd still be smaller and way quicker to set up and take down than any fabric chair, plus if they were aluminum they'd be completely fireproof around a camp fire.
yeah, a higher version easier to get out of...
It's honestly game over once they integrate with a backpack frame
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Sure it is. 🤣🤣🤣
This is exactly what I've been using for years, but mine is made from 2x12's. I DO NOT carry it backpacking, but for sitting around camp and relaxing, this type of chair is very comfortable.
That seat I see also as a spine splint incase of a spine injury.
Great idea.
As a rural LEO this looks intriguing. Everything from a chair for breaks on sar, or letting a non injured mva sit on when the adrenaline fades, to a mini backboard when needing a hard surface to do chest compressions.
I certainly wouldnt complain if they wanted to donate a few to my tiny department for us to toss behind the truck seat 😂.
Carpenters have been making on site chairs like this forever!!! What a great move for them
This is super cool. I love the innovation and the completely novel approach to the design over existing chairs and the quick set up time. I expect the price will come down as they eventually scale over time. I won’t be an early adopter but it’s neat.
Thermoplastics would be an interesting way to explore maybe get cost/weight down.
Perhaps latch points built into the design to attach it to packs in various ways? Maybe that’s not needed though
Or form a partnership and licence these to a backpack manufacturer. You guys make the frame and supply it to them. Imagine a backpack manufacturer being able to market their frame doubles as a chair! This would allow them to sell more units without the capitol intensive job of starting their own backpack company.
Very simple and effective. As a bike packer, it wouldn’t work as too bulky to store on the bike, but if that got incorporated in to a high end frame for a backpack. I would 100% but it for hiking trips. I love ingenuity and change and this is that.
Cost is subjective as they said. It should last a lifetime. No helinox chair will ever last a lifetime
making the seat into a snow shovel by reinforcing the cutting edge would be a total game changer and help with price justification also the back pack frame concept is a winner
Love it, I’ve always wanted an ultralight Viking chair. Way more comfortable than any bucket seat 🏆
Heads up, the name Viking chair is not Viking historical. We haven’t found chairs like that in Norway or other Viking areas, but it has been found in the past.
I knew them as bog chairs, super easy to make out of scaffold boards
@@bradmyst1339Bummer, as a norwegian I was exited by the invention😊
@@stigcc plenty of other reasons to enjoy this chair and plenty other great things from Norway
Whew...Dan that's steep man. I bought the Helinox chair zero (high back) after watching your review and I took that up Mount Elbert with me with a full Kelty Redwing 50 pack (my absolute favorite travel pack for going anywhere). I'm not worried so much about weight nor am I worried about cost, but $400-$500 for a chair is far too steep. I get it, it's CF, it's super fast and easy to set up, and had I had that chair I probably would have used it more than my Helinox on that climb, but that slightly extra bit of inconvenience for the 1 minute of pull out and set up time for the Helinox vs the less than 30 seconds doesn't justify the sharp difference in price.
They said $3-400 !
The durability may make it cost effective.
I love that there are guys out there creating premium products that are worth the money.
This chair is a game changer as is. Absolutely love the chair and this video for bringing it to us. 👍
Skeletonize it to reduce weight and design an ultralight pack around it using it as a frame sheet.
The nature of carbon fiber construction makes skeletonizing the seat portion less of an option, internally rigid structure with low weight infill is probably where the strength comes from.
@@PatrickKniesler, how about the back rest portion. small slits or holes for breathability?
@@Johnnymailman from what I know that's a possibility, but larger holes are not.
@@PatrickKniesler aluminum would be good
I truly believe I would and could buy one of these chairs right now,I love it .
This is awesome. My issue with the Helinox is that it is still cloth that can catch an ember. I am a bigger gut (300 lbs. 6'7) and none of the light weigh back packing chairs hold me.
If they could have color options that would be huge.
Once they have it as a pack frame..... take my money!
Chair zero L will work for your weught
Absolutely interested! I usually don't carry a chair, I don't bother because of the frustration of the setup time and tbh the weight. The idea of incorporating it as a pack frame would be a game changer, especially if it stayed really easy to use in a short time (like a water break). Super cool idea, I will be watching the evolution of this product for sure.
So many backpack “innovations” are simply just tweaks on what’s already available. But this truly is completely different from anything out there. I love how they took the simplicity of an ancient design and made it modern. It’s absolutely brilliant.
Although it’s not something I’d be ready to invest in myself (I’m still somewhat young, so a small pad as a seat will suit me fine for now), if they can figure out how to shave some weight off and turn it into a multipurpose item (i.e. a backpack frame as they said, and maybe turn the seat portion into a shovel), I could see this flying off the shelves.
It’s been fun watching Dan Durston’s progress over the years as he takes input from his customers. If these guys are as willing to listen to input from everyone around them, it’ll be fun to see what this product will turn into!
This thing is sick. I'd def buy one. Love the ingenuity and an American company.
2 seconds into this video and the Chinese already have tons of these on Ali Express & Temu.
They just copied a traditional design and used modern materials. Wouldnt call it rocket science
@@vaffens Go try owning a company, then circle back here
Just preordered one!
Should be perfect for motocamping.
I bet everybody is asking themselves: "How the hell did nobody come out with a product like this yet?" - And that's a great indicator of a good product!
Awesome Chair... They are going to need to incorporate a bottle opener and lighten it up a bit to justify the price though.
A bottle opener is gimmicky. Ain't no way I'm hauling glass on a backpacking trip.
Bottle opener mentioned in same sentence as carbon fiber lol
I agree! No outdoor gear is complete without a bottle opener and a cork screw!
The gear we select should be multiple purpose. I would take chair car camping, to the beach, sporting / music events and kids rec games.
All sorts of accessories could be builtin or removable/ reconfigurable to meet mission specs.
@@flomax_actual I really doubt the audience they are targeting with this are hiking with glass bottles.
Sure it's nice when gear is multifunctional, but it's kinda important the function is even a desired one. Having the chair act as a frame in a pack, that's function that make sense. Randomly adding a feature most don't want, that only adds overall weight, is not a good idea. There's no way they are going to build in a reconfigurable bottle opener that's going to weigh less than just carrying a bottle opener separately. Not to mention your pack and plain old surroundings are probably filled with things you can open a bottle with.
I don’t backpack much any more, but I do take a daily walk. Usually I can find a park bench or bus bench to sit down if I need to or want to. But I recently made a collapsible stool to take with me to open up wherever I want. I don’t know what they call the design I’ve used. I saw a couple RUclips woodworkers make one. Woodworking for Mere Mortals has a nice PDF. I made several modifications to mine to make it even better. I’d like to make one out of something lighter than wood, but the one I have is pretty good for just walking around town. It puts me 15 inches off the ground. But it doesn’t have a back. If I put it close to a wall or tree, I have a back. But a real back would be nice.
I have one of those chairs that takes minutes to assemble, but, you are correct, assembly is a real inhibitor for quick breaks. The collapsible stool that I made fits into my small everyday backpack. Snaps open, snaps closed, easy. This “Viking” design would not fit into that backpack. Overall, the whole “Viking” design seems slightly impractical. It’s two very long pieces, which, in the end, don’t give you much of a chair. It does give you a back, which is nice. But it puts you much lower to the ground than my stool, or those other assembly chairs. That, to me, is an issue. I wish you had measured just how close to the ground you are in that chair. It looked hard to get into and out of. Especially for old people.The back also seemed to be at a much more reclined angle than you would be in an assembled chair. Nice for relaxing, but maybe not so good for socializing around the campfire.
People talk about making it be the frame of a large backpack. I would want to know the details how that would work. How it would hold the heavy contents of a backpack, be comfortable against you back for a day of walking, and be easily detached from that pack for quick breaks. Because of my interest in having something to take with me inside my everyday backpack, I was hoping there could be a way to have the very long pieces fold to half their length in storage and unfold into the two long pieces. But that would probably either be impossible, or add too much bulk, weight and cost.
I’m working on my own chair design that will hopefully fit into my everyday backpack, put me about 15 inches off the ground, like the collapsible stool I’ve been using, and… have a back. I’ll only be able to make it out of wood for now, so I will not be super lightweight. But if it works, maybe I’ll attempt to make it out of aluminum. And if that works… maybe carbon fiber!
it is a tad low yes.
That is amazing. It will definitely get lighter and using it as frame for backpack will make it net even less.
Love that it also works as a snow shovel. Multi purpose is awesome.
Add 6 tiny paracord holes on each piece in the right spots, and they would be great emergency show shoes as well as a snow/sand shovel. Great invention!!!
I hope they make a version that holds 200 lbs that is much lighter! Awesome idea!
My thoughts exactly. No need to use/pay for the extra materials for 300+lbs.
I'm a giant so I hope they keep the big boy version lol
@@juansarmiento3857The delta would be at best $10. Would be lost on 220 lb user “ warranty demands”.
They can't. 1.2 times the claim weight factor is required
I have an Alite Butterfly and I noticed something on my last trip. Because the Butterfly doesn’t self support, I had an unconscious tendency to stand while doing random tasks instead of sitting to do them. Sitting required an intentional effort to get into the chair. After about an hour standing around camp I thought, damn I’m tired. Very similar psychology in not sitting for midday breaks. A frameless pack with a sleeve for this chair would be a perfect combo. Cut some weight and cost and I’m in.
agreed, but also get yourself the crossbar and turn that butterfly into a mayfly
right away i thought of a few things this chair can be used for: 1) shovel for snow (the seat is shovel shaped and you could also use the back piece as it would have more strength and has multiple hand holds) 2) you could use the seat as an oar 3) it would have to be tested, but possible use the back piece under a car/atv wheel to get out of a patch of ice or slick mud? 4) you could use the back as a carrier for firewood.
this thing is definitely on my list now
I don't think it even needs to be the frame of the back pack... it just needs to absolutely nest neatly into the most back packs and lay flat where it needs to. That and it needs to be much much cheaper than the competitors. If it can do that, it's an absolute winner. Definitely be watching this one.
Personally, I don't think it has to be cheaper than the other chair types. It's creating a whole new option in the market. But if they can bring it down some, that would help a lot.
They need to offer an aluminun and thermoplastic version to get the price down.
Carbob fiber is hella expensive to manufacture.
Dan Durston's Zfkicks are two carbon fiber thin poles and they are $70
@@lakorai2 I'm not disagreeing that having them be more affordable would be nice, if that would work. :) Not sure if could be made as stable or light that way, but worth testing, after they fine-tune this version and get it the way they want it.
That’s a very nice chair for someone young with no knee problems.
Pretty sure you're not going backpacking with knee problems bad enough that prevent you from sitting low.... just saying
@@My_name_is_BrettI know a couple old guys with bad knees that will probably out walk a lot of young guys. The only difference is they will need to eat a bottle of Advil later while you probably won’t
Obviously being that it was designed for outdoor usage for hikers I'm assuming that your knees would be good if you're purchasing this thing for hiking, if you're not hiking and you're not an outdoor adventurer I'd say just buy a 30 dollar Walmart seat and you'll be good to go .
But when you're buying this for its purpose that's been built for which is the outdoor enthusiast to go hiking with I'm assuming these wouldn't be too much of an issue at that point for this specific product
Don't count on the other chairs if you have bad knees either. These chairs are for hikers and campers not staying home to watch youtube!
@@Noneyabiz001 The problem is that all that would complain about knee problems would also be not comfy in the other chairs because they are also so low.
A Viking carbon fiber chair! How Awesome! For backpacking the 2+ lbs is too heavy. Also it seems to sit lower than current chairs. That’s a problem for folks with knee issues. So carrying, height of seat, weight, and cost are the issues. Once they get that dialed in, it will be a best seller!
So every part of it is an issue 🤣
We have some heavy wooden versions of this chair, so comfortable, and so fast to set up and tear down! Brilliant take on an old favorite
Outsource the production, build in the some holes to accommodate multiple strap options to attach to a back, get the weight down to 1.5 lbs, and the price to $150 and you will OWN the hiking chair market.
Oh, I thought this was the price. I was looking for it. If this chair is more than $30 it's a no go.
@@MindBodySoulOk It's carbon fiber... You're going to have to wait for the crappier chinese knockoff to come out in a few years if you want to pay anywhere close to $30.
I'll pay almost anything for a good product made in the USA. I pray for the day the Chinese economy burns. No one holds themselves to a standard anymore. As long as it costs nothing and lasts one use, no one cares if it ends up in a landfill a week after purchase 🤢 consumerism is icky and outsourcing is part of the problem.
@@MindBodySoulOk this is on pre order for 350 buckos aprox
Yes I agree they must outsource production cost will tumble. They will need to be patent police with a design so easy to copy but this is the way. Early entrepreneurs greatly underestimate the costs of DIY production vs the efficiency and quality of factory production. High end machine tooling must work 247 and that isn't viable in a small business. Also it looks like they are vacuum bagging it. Lots of consumable expenses for a product that could and should be made using compression molding in a 2 part mold.
The ONLY thing that concerns me is that it is so low to the ground. If it sat higher and didn't lean back too much, it would be more ergonomic for older people.😊
They could ad the option to adjust it later down the line
It would have to be larger in order to do that and maintain stability, which kind of defeats the purpose.
I like it. My concern would be sitting on rocks. Would the rocks eventually cause the carbon fiber to wear down and crack? I would cover mine in travel sticker btw....
Please send me one for review!!!!
Just have an “extras pack” that includes rubber feet.
No, you can’t put this everywhere. The advantage of the other chairs is that you can position it over certain things so you can position it over a rock or you can move it around because you have the legs to do so. The other chairs you can have on a slight angle and still be comfortable this unfortunately is not meant for true backpacking or canoe camping or for the person that would be spending $400 on chair , this is like the Tesla truck looks good in theory, but practically unuseable
@@gc6391 An extra's pack on a 300-400 dollar chair 😂
I love it. I feel for them though. Coming to a Temu/alibabi near you.
Not carbon fiber, not well-made, Probably won’t even hold half the weight, but post haste and $20.
I will definitely buy one of these guys’ chairs. Love. It.
One of the most interesting gear videos I've seen
The only way i see this gaining traction is if it utilizes the chair in other ways. A backpack frame was a solid suggestions.
yea and it would make the cost more acceptable
Ground chair for in a small tent.
Dan, please get these guys to market to sailors as well..change the chair color to bright orange..(or whatever) Perfect to put in your dinghy when at anchor and take to the beach bonfire. I'm in for both backpacking & sailing.
And one of the parts looks like a paddle
@luketoh1 how would you use in in a canoe.
Pretty dope! Can’t wait to see the final result and the accessories for hunting and the lighter and different styles they will have
Older ppl would give this the thumbs down unless a bigger, easier to get out of chair is added.
Overlanders will go freaking nuts for this.
@kebrun4484 what are overlanders ?
Not at that price. My truck doesn't care if my chair weighs 4 pounds but I care that it's super comfy, has a drink holder, a side fold out for my dinner, and a organizer for my phone, keys, etc. on it.
Yeah. I’ll definitely purchase one.
100% would love to see this as a pack frame!! Closer to 1.5 lb would be great too. Ditch the magnets too, in the field they'll collect a bunch of junk.
Is that seat also a canoe paddle? Could it pull double duty for canoe campers?
Emergency canoe paddle….
@@vango20 Absolutely. I thought the same thing.
I was looking for this comment, I thought the same
Or doubles as a snow shovel for winter camping.
You lost me at $3-400 bucks. That a ridiculous price point.
Yeah I’d take any of those other chairs lol
Grow up ! Old design copied with new materials - investment cost substantial but once they knock them out with volume moulds cheap as chips. You’ll do well at a sensible price but don’t take the piss please.
@@andrewdegnan7300 who are you talking to?
If you are a camp chair consumer, how many chairs have you been through in the last 5-10 years, and what do you think they all cost in today's dollars?
Pounds…
That's Awesome. They should market it as a Chair / Backpack frame / Shovel / emergency canoe oar. And put a bottle opener on it, LOL.
The seat looks like a great little snow shovel and emergency paddle too. Definitely use this as a backpack frame.
Yes 3 legs! they are geniuses. Best idea for uneven surfaces.
Wait was not that just 2?
Would be cool if thrre was a multi-purpose aspect to it, like using it as a shovel or something
A bag stiffener for a portage pack