Brendan De Jonge - Over the Top, Or an Effective Pattern Used by All-Time Greats?
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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As South African Brendan De Jonge took the lead heading into the final round of the AT&T Classic at Congressional, the TV announcers couldn't help but endlessly repeat the statement that De Jonge's swing was "over the top". Of course, they never took the time to explain what they meant by that phrase, why it had a negative connotation, and why it was usually associated with chops from the local muni and not guys who were leading Tour events.
I can't tell you how many players I have taught, and this includes good players along with not so good, who thought that every shot they hit to the left was caused by an "over the top" swing, only to find that according to the video their club was approaching way too far from the inside and the "feeling" they had of an out to in swing path was exactly the opposite of what was really happening. So much for "playing by feel". Think about it: you are missing left because you are leaving the club behind you where it swings way too much in to out, but you think you are actually "over the top", with the club travelling into the ball from out to in. Your "fix" is going to be to try to come more from the inside, which is the problem in the first place. Obviously, you are going to screw yourself up even more, and eventually you will barely be able to hit the ball at all.
The use of such terms as "over the top" with no adequate explanation is one of the things that TV golf fails to recognize as detrimental to the ability of the average player to understand how a golf swing works and how different patterns have been utilized throughout history to play great golf and win major championships. In this video I compare De Jonge's move with Jack Nicklaus, Bobby Jones, and Byron Nelson, choosing them because of the great similarities in all four swings. It wouldn't take that much for a TV announcer with a bit of knowledge and access to the same swings I have compiled on this laptop to make an interesting one or two minute snippet which would explain what "over the top" means and how many great players have moved the hands and arms in that fashion. What would really help would be to point out how control of the shaft is the secret to making such movements work, and that if the shaft were not lagging back and shallowing early in transition then none of these players would ever have been heard of, much less have become such great players.
Crazy that you were talking about this 9-10 years ago, probably longer. Every golf instructor I’ve gone to, has tried to get me under the swing plane or directly on it. I can’t do it. I naturally and comfortably have an OTT the hand path. Nice to see I’m not crazy for no longer going to those instructors.
Thank you for this great feature and bringing the move of De Jonge to my Attn. As a fellow natural ott mover it is great to see that it can be performed at the highest level. Love you whole channel.
I can't think of a single big burly player who didn't have the little move out with the hands at the top of the backswing. Seems to me like a bit of a reroute to create some space because of the body type. A true over-the-top move is where the clubpath on the downswing is moving hard out-to-in (much like a good player would hit a greenside bunker shot) with an open clubface. The result is a glancing blow that produces a weak pull-slice. de Jonge is averaging 290 yards off the tee and hits a right-to-left draw as his stock shot. Obviously once he makes the looping move with the hands he gets the club right back onto a powerful plane.
Excellent reminder that an inside loop is perfectly acceptable as long as the downswing is inside the target line coming into the ball. Almost every pro has a bit of loop one way or another because I believe it adds power. I have the feeling that an inside loop is easier on my back too. Jim McLean talked about it a little in his Slot book. I believe it is never taught because it might be easy to get across the target line. Over the top is alright...over the line is not. Thanks Wayne D. You made my day.
We hear a lot of talk about flattening the shaft plane at the start of the downswing,but many have done the opposite and played great golf with a stock fade.Kj Choi,Craig Parry,Bruce Lietzke…great video Wayne.
This is so interesting, if you look at Bruce Lietzke he had similar hand pattern. All of the modern stuff I find hard to do. Wayne I don't know that you are with us anymore, I heard you passed away- RIP and thank you for all of this analysis.
Ah you did!
I would take Stadlers swing any day.
He repeats it ever time, thats all thats important!
With that inside move going back, he better "come over the top"; otherwise he will alternate big pushes with big hooks. So its really only over the top relative to his path going back. Its just a reroute based on his "physiology". The over the top actually helps him to get the club to go left instead of severely inside-to-out, helping him to hit a cut which is a good shot under pressure.
A better comparison would be Boros not Nicklaus...The key is not the "control of the shaft" as you suggest, rather DeJonge shifts out the left arm at p5-6, but still keeps from tipping out the shaft, because he maintains max right wrist bend into delivery point. Nicklaus teeter toters with his tilts and shallows out by backing out of it... BTW, I'm a fan Wayne... just throwing out some ideas
Thank you, absolutely love the way you break a swing down, love when you talk about the index finger pressure piont, because I'm a low teen HC but my swing is over the Top from the inside ,to me it's the most athletic swing out there, anyway I certainly don't hit like these boys but I don't practice and it's not my profession, but I agree with everything your stating, totally makes sense to Me, my problem is I watch 25 differnt teachers on Utube lol so I have 25 differnt thoughts at address lol, stick with one teacher that you believe In and go for it! Thanks again love you content,
Wayne De Francesco... Wayne.. I used to hook (or draw) every shot and could shoot even par in tournaments mostly because of my short game. Then I said ''enough!'' and started to think how I could make golf easier. (I have never taken lessons. played from 11 - 14 years old ; got to a 2 handicap and quit for other sports) then took it up at age 47 again after med school, surgery residency, etc. During my time away I played once every 10 years but always shot in mid 70s (at weddings, etc)). Then played on tour in Asia for 9 years with some success even with my hook (reg tour then senior). A month ago is when I said ''enough!'' and started to copy Bruce Lietzke because he said he never hit a hook his whole life and we are the same height t 6'2''. Now I do it like Lietzke (as best as I can) and hit 2 more greens per round (sometimes all 18). Its the same kind of move you are showing here with De Jonge. I hit a beautiful little fade on every shot now ; like 5 yards on my driver down to 1 yard on my 9 iron. I don''t mis-hit anymore either because I am coming into the ball from''higher out'' if you know what I mean. I wish I had known this when I started on tour. Now 59 years old...
10:17-10:52 is the magical move that has eliminated early extension for me!!
...since this is Wayne's show, I'll let him respond...but I'd be looking at maintaining right wrist bend first, and then cleaning up the pivot... but the right wrist bend is key for all who tip out.
Looks like Jack is playing his second shot on #8 at Pebble Beach. I think he said that was his favorite shot of all time.
Its the way a lot of players used to swing in the old days, before bad backs and terrible injuries.
The crucial distinction between the way these pros swing "over the top" and amateurs is that their shaft plane flattens in downswing in contrast to all OTT amateurs! Big difference. You don't hit the ball with your backswing, you hit it with your downswing and the problem is over-the-top outside The line downswing leads to weak shots.
Can you do a video analysis on Luke List's swing? He really nails the ball and I'd like to know what he does right. Thanks
Hi Wayne,
I actually enjoy your analysis of all the swings on your Chanel. I guess big question is (specific to this swing) WHY does someone swing this way.. in and over..And why is it not taught?
I think better players should all be doing this. Better players know how to swing from the inside and get stuck. This inside takeaway move effectively gets rid of the stuck feeling. Because it is the most effective pattern for good players, I think its why you see so many PGA tour players playing cuts. It's not just to get more stopping power. Its mostly to create that consistent shot shape and release pattern.
Wayne, how does one learn to control the shaft by lagging back and shallowing early in transition? I'm one who tips the shaft out a bit at transition and has to fit it in/under by backing out of it. I really want to learn to hit draws without working it under late in the downswing and flipping. Thank you...
Under and Over swing is the exact swing anyone uses with a sledgehammer and they don't miss either
DeJonge path is much more cp than Jones, who was more cf...so not sure I agree with the Jones comparison...Julious Boros would be much more instructive, imo
When Jack Nicklaus first burst on the scene, in the early 1960s, he was much heavier than in the video you have. Jack was thick like Brendan. Maybe that's why both developed that move to get their arms in front where they could swing through.
This swing of Nicklaus was taken from when he played against Sam Snead on the Wonderful World of Golf, and the year was 1963.
its his lower body pivot that causes the hands to look like they go out, but relative to the body they arent. same with jack, same with ben
the hands either go backwards, straight down, or down and forward by degree. that is a simple observation. I'm not sure what you mean by "relative to the body".
You forgot another all time great who swung under-over - Sam Snead!
As did Hogan but not as much. In fact the computer model (modelgolf.com) is a combination of about 50 tour players and it loops the hands out at the top as well. It is just the best way to do things... Of course you will have your Mark O'Meara and Furyks and DJ that may drop it straight down or under, but by and large this is an exaggerated pattern of the best way to swing.
doesn"t an inside backswing help get the shoulders turned in many cases? beating the over the top with this swing is by "hitting the slot" or setting the club in the slot??
What are their hands doing? The shaft doesn't shallow. The hands shallow
I watched him hit balls on the range and me and my friend were debating his swing. we both agreed he flushes it and would make a lot of money
Some of the greatest players of all time played this way.. those mentioned in the video as well as Sam Snead and Bruce Lietzke no less!
"Over the top" is given to 30+ handicaps, who do not get their right elbow in front of them in the downswing!
Brendan's swing works but you don't see him winning tournaments like top players on tour, don't you think that's indicative to his unique swing?
I think you missed the point of the video. Brendan's "unique swing" is not that unique. It is similar to Nicklaus' who won plenty of tournaments. Maybe Brendan doesn't have the complete game required to win a lot of tournaments, but its not because of the move talked about in this video, since great champions did something similar.
Brendan is from Zim, not ZA.
Aren't they talking about the shaft angel for being over the top, not the top of the swing?
Precisely!
Played with a guy who played against Craig stadler in college. Said start won everything. #ott
*stadler
Check out Dad and son Stadler!
Wait.. what,,, 5 PGA and US Open golf title? When.. which year did you win?
He competed in 5 PGA Championships, 1 US Open, 1 US Senior Open, and 1 Senior PGA. He won the National Club Pro.
yeah de jonges swing is garbage compared to jack's. jack is not over the top Idk why people say he is, he shallows out the plain on the down he does not increase the steepness de jonge is still much more steep compared to jack.
By age 22, Jack had 40-inch thighs! How did he know that he was going to get fat? (Just joking. Good call, Wayne D.!)
He copied Jack's swing no doubt but his is way over the top but a really good over the top. Jack is down the line. Look at the divots.
de jonges swing is just destined to fail under the pressure of a tourney with the lead its too much over the top and if he flips it at all he is snap hooking left like crazy every time
Jake Ledbetter you’re an idiot ... please stop commenting on these swings. We’re all dumber from having read your drivel!