I deliberately kept my kids away from Mormon doctrine but it eventually caught up with them when my active family members all of a sudden demonised them because their own kids were youth and they couldn't have my kids anywhere near theirs because my kids didn't live "up" to Mormon standards. I had to explain to my kids that it wasn't a case of living up to anything it would actually be a step down from their own standards. My kids have been raised not to judge a person based in how they dress, their haircuts or jewellery preference. Not to judge on the language they use. Not to judge based on what they put into their body. They do judge others based on how they treat other people and it was a very difficult lesson to realise that their churchgoing family could behave in such an unchristian way. I deliberately kept the concept of worthiness away from my kids and the outcome was they always felt worthy, then my Mormon family came along and made them feel unworthy anyway. Luckily that didn't last, their foundations is built on the rock.
I attended BYU in the early '70s and I don't think I ever had to interview with my bishop to get a recommendation from him. When did that start? I also attended grad school at BYU in the late '70s - as a single woman in my late 20's I couldn't stand living with a random selection of undergrads. So I moved into a studio apartment in a building with mix of single and marrieds, changed my address to my cubicle on campus until I finished my masters, lied when signing the honor code and got out of Provo as quickly as possible. And then out of the church, when I realized a single career women (returned missionary) had no place in the church.
Honestly I could not care less than I already do about BYU and its Honor Code changes. At some point in life, a child must mature from being managed by their parents to counseling with their parents. Going to BYU is a step backwards in growing up. Utah State, Aggies All The Way.
I went to USU as well (much later than Landon- LOL!). I was very active all throughout my college life. I chose to NOT to go to a CES church school. I did not want my education and degree(s) dependent on my chosen religious activity. There was intrinsic value to me to have my education separate from my religious practices. So glad I did not go to a church school.
Rebecca I watch most shows when airing and I look for “Show notes” on all podcasts and it does not matter how I look I have never found show notes on RUclips. Are they on other platforms? I just would like to look things up and do not know how.
There are thousands of colleges to choose from. We have the right to choose. Why make it so complicated and negative. If the standards at the LDS colleges aren't for you simply attend elsewhere. Leave those alone that want to attend a school with high standards. It is so simple. We are talking about four colleges among thousands. It is clear what you are signing up for before you attend. Don't like it then just go somewhere else. Why cause so much contention? Isn't there enough negativity out there? We should all be able to choose tto live in the enviroment we desire.
I actually see this as low standards. This is Satan’s plan as I was taught it. You are forced to act the way they dictate and if during your college years you find that you don’t believe (which is your right also) BYU holds your degree over your head and forces you to either lie about your beliefs or forfeit tens of thousands of dollars and years of your life to move to another school. If we want to say people are free to choose then we should truly allow them to choose, including choosing not to believe in a religion without punishment. I can’t think of anything more negative than not allowing people to follow their conscience free from decisions that were made when they had a high level of parental and religious leader persuasion. If people truly believe in living this way why would they ever need to sign agreements and have an enforcement branch? True disciples of Christ follow him because they love him not because they are forced to. Obviously we disagree but expressing an opinion is not negativity it is dialogue. Clearly people who want to go to BYU should be allowed to go there but they also should be allowed to follow their conscience once they are there. Thanks for watching!
I attended BYU from 1986-1990 and I totally remember the "male leg hair = pubic hair" thing. Everyone laughed at that one. My experience was that the only time dress and grooming was really policed was at the beginning of the semester (when you had to get your updated ID card) and the testing center. My home teacher who was the most Mormon guy ever (and by no means had long hair) was denied his ID until he got it cut because it was touching his ears. Yet another friend of mine had really long hair and only ever had one teacher say anything. He was a graduate student so maybe that made a difference. He did get stopped a lot by campus police (and sometimes interrogated for things he didn't do), so that may have been connected to his appearance. He's lost that hair now, so God is clearly punishing him for the rebellion of his youth! ;) My girlfriend got turned into the honor code office by her roommates for staying over at my apartment. She went in and told them that she was at her uncle's house. He was a professor there and I guess she felt confident he wouldn't rat her. He must not have because it went no further.
Something you completely missed was the change : do non- members have to attend the Mormon church as there is no exception in the New honor code ? Do non members have to get something similar from their church ? Family? What about non member scholarship athletes at BYU. Jim McMann broke all the rules at BYU but he also won many football games for BYU: quite a double standard for him.
32:45 speaking of all that, someone on the ex-mo reddit sub posted an advertisement in the official church directory back in the day around 1905 for a company in SLC who sold tea and coffee. This advertisement can be found on the official church website in all their historical stuff they posted up. I have seen that advertisement and even downloaded it and posted it on my facebook account. It astounds me how much bullshit we were fed as members only to find out that life in the church back 125 years ago was vastly different.
They still beat you down on basic civil rights- like an apartment, don't they? Did I miss something, or has the BYU approved housing expulsion if you lose your ecclesiastical endorsement process been changed?
38:00 It's sad that the Church accepts a gay person being married to a straight person when they don't love each other, but they refuse to accept 2 gay people who love one another.
If the ability to wear shorts is noteworthy then it is no surprise that homosexual behavior is treated like leprosy. This reaffirms my choice, decades ago, of not attending a church institution. When an organization dictates what's right and wrong and takes away individual discernment then there is a problem....
I don’t think so…only apostates are punished for not attending church. You are better off never having been a member than being a member who no longer attends.
I also noticed recently they changed the missionary handbook. Wonder if it now covers topics like “how to treat your convert like dog crap” . My missionary experience was atrocious and the reason why I left. How one of my missionaries got approved to be a missionary is astounding. She apparently was not emotionally mature enough to be a missionary. But I digress
I was attending BYU in the 1970s when the girl took her test in the testing center in her panties (The words "in my panties" were her words, in her letter to the editor of the Daily Universe). We all had never-ending guffaws about it. Among all my then BYU student friends, there was not one of us that didn't feel that the application or enforcement of BYU dress and grooming standards wasn't total nonsense. Truly as Landon points out, the current-day Mormon Church is trying to enact "Satan's Plan," rather than permitting people to use their agency. So sadly ironic, but then the whole thing was based on a fraud anyway, which today leads to totally, totally unachievable and unrealistic expectations, and over the top BS, i.e., Tim Ballard, and Apostle Ballard's whole hearted endorsement of this wannabe "Mormon Prophet." I'm glad I'm out. Hey Rebecca and Landon, you haven't answered my e-mail yet. Nobody has had a Mormon "exit story" quite like mine. I'll be happy to have you interview me. Please let me know.
this would have been a good opportunity to eliminate the beard ban but nope, stuck in 1960s paranoia. The next time you attend a BYU football game look around and you'll notice that 25%+ of the men (alums) have beards.
There is not trust. The ldsp believes they must compel a certain behavior, thus admitting the 17-20 yrs of training in home & church were producing undisciplined sinners. Such a sad characterization of the future ldrs by the current ldsp. So agency is over.
The Mormon dress code sounds like it fits the BITE Model perfectly
I deliberately kept my kids away from Mormon doctrine but it eventually caught up with them when my active family members all of a sudden demonised them because their own kids were youth and they couldn't have my kids anywhere near theirs because my kids didn't live "up" to Mormon standards. I had to explain to my kids that it wasn't a case of living up to anything it would actually be a step down from their own standards. My kids have been raised not to judge a person based in how they dress, their haircuts or jewellery preference. Not to judge on the language they use. Not to judge based on what they put into their body. They do judge others based on how they treat other people and it was a very difficult lesson to realise that their churchgoing family could behave in such an unchristian way. I deliberately kept the concept of worthiness away from my kids and the outcome was they always felt worthy, then my Mormon family came along and made them feel unworthy anyway. Luckily that didn't last, their foundations is built on the rock.
Great insight! Sorry to hear how your kids have been treated but we are glad to hear that they have chosen to rise above it! Thanks for the comment!
I attended BYU in the early '70s and I don't think I ever had to interview with my bishop to get a recommendation from him. When did that start? I also attended grad school at BYU in the late '70s - as a single woman in my late 20's I couldn't stand living with a random selection of undergrads. So I moved into a studio apartment in a building with mix of single and marrieds, changed my address to my cubicle on campus until I finished my masters, lied when signing the honor code and got out of Provo as quickly as possible. And then out of the church, when I realized a single career women (returned missionary) had no place in the church.
Honestly I could not care less than I already do about BYU and its Honor Code changes. At some point in life, a child must mature from being managed by their parents to counseling with their parents. Going to BYU is a step backwards in growing up. Utah State, Aggies All The Way.
Go Aggies!!!!
USU grad, here. Three kids at USU now. Two of then in the Aggie Marching Band!
Go Aggies!!!
I'm just curious if the BYU-I cheer Pic was taken when the weather ( and wind) were in season in Rexburg?
I went to USU as well (much later than Landon- LOL!). I was very active all throughout my college life. I chose to NOT to go to a CES church school. I did not want my education and degree(s) dependent on my chosen religious activity. There was intrinsic value to me to have my education separate from my religious practices. So glad I did not go to a church school.
8:59 I agree Landon. A survey is only as bias or unbiased as too the creators of the questions.
Great show guys!
Rebecca I watch most shows when airing and I look for “Show notes” on all podcasts and it does not matter how I look I have never found show notes on RUclips. Are they on other platforms? I just would like to look things up and do not know how.
You need to do a podcast on dress code/ honor code nightmares. I've got some good ones, first hand stories. Let's talk if you're interested.
This is a great idea. Rebecca has some of her own! DM me so we can chat!
Hey why is your shiny happy people episode made private?? I wanna see it.
Tech glitch released it before editing, will have it up next week.
With the latest honor code, the powers that be moved honesty from the top of the list down to the 2nd spot.
Sounds right…seems honesty is secondary in the church!
I
I am sort of ashamed to have attended a university named for Brigham Young.
In addition it was to me kind of a police state.
There are thousands of colleges to choose from. We have the right to choose. Why make it so complicated and negative. If the standards at the LDS colleges aren't for you simply attend elsewhere. Leave those alone that want to attend a school with high standards. It is so simple. We are talking about four colleges among thousands. It is clear what you are signing up for before you attend. Don't like it then just go somewhere else. Why cause so much contention? Isn't there enough negativity out there? We should all be able to choose tto live in the enviroment we desire.
I actually see this as low standards. This is Satan’s plan as I was taught it. You are forced to act the way they dictate and if during your college years you find that you don’t believe (which is your right also) BYU holds your degree over your head and forces you to either lie about your beliefs or forfeit tens of thousands of dollars and years of your life to move to another school. If we want to say people are free to choose then we should truly allow them to choose, including choosing not to believe in a religion without punishment. I can’t think of anything more negative than not allowing people to follow their conscience free from decisions that were made when they had a high level of parental and religious leader persuasion. If people truly believe in living this way why would they ever need to sign agreements and have an enforcement branch? True disciples of Christ follow him because they love him not because they are forced to. Obviously we disagree but expressing an opinion is not negativity it is dialogue. Clearly people who want to go to BYU should be allowed to go there but they also should be allowed to follow their conscience once they are there. Thanks for watching!
I see many social media LDS influencers not wearing garments.
They say if it’s something you need to wear for your job… it’s apparently okay😉
Oh Landon.....sounds like you are ready for my Ricks' stories.
Yes! Bring it on! Let’s hear it!
I attended BYU from 1986-1990 and I totally remember the "male leg hair = pubic hair" thing. Everyone laughed at that one.
My experience was that the only time dress and grooming was really policed was at the beginning of the semester (when you had to get your updated ID card) and the testing center. My home teacher who was the most Mormon guy ever (and by no means had long hair) was denied his ID until he got it cut because it was touching his ears.
Yet another friend of mine had really long hair and only ever had one teacher say anything. He was a graduate student so maybe that made a difference. He did get stopped a lot by campus police (and sometimes interrogated for things he didn't do), so that may have been connected to his appearance. He's lost that hair now, so God is clearly punishing him for the rebellion of his youth! ;)
My girlfriend got turned into the honor code office by her roommates for staying over at my apartment. She went in and told them that she was at her uncle's house. He was a professor there and I guess she felt confident he wouldn't rat her. He must not have because it went no further.
18:00 minutes. Yay, shorts! Boo, more control over what kind of shorts are allowed.
Something you completely missed was the change : do non- members have to attend the Mormon church as there is no exception in the New honor code ?
Do non members have to get something similar from their church ? Family?
What about non member scholarship athletes at BYU.
Jim McMann broke all the rules at BYU but he also won many football games for BYU: quite a double standard for him.
44:44 That last question assumes everyone is guilty of something and they need to repent.
32:45 speaking of all that, someone on the ex-mo reddit sub posted an advertisement in the official church directory back in the day around 1905 for a company in SLC who sold tea and coffee. This advertisement can be found on the official church website in all their historical stuff they posted up. I have seen that advertisement and even downloaded it and posted it on my facebook account. It astounds me how much bullshit we were fed as members only to find out that life in the church back 125 years ago was vastly different.
34:00 Well no wonder the Mormons in East Germany had a decent relationship with that dictatorship......
They still beat you down on basic civil rights- like an apartment, don't they? Did I miss something, or has the BYU approved housing expulsion if you lose your ecclesiastical endorsement process been changed?
38:00 It's sad that the Church accepts a gay person being married to a straight person when they don't love each other, but they refuse to accept 2 gay people who love one another.
If the ability to wear shorts is noteworthy then it is no surprise that homosexual behavior is treated like leprosy. This reaffirms my choice, decades ago, of not attending a church institution. When an organization dictates what's right and wrong and takes away individual discernment then there is a problem....
36:15 Every Mormon is raised Mormonish.
There is no rider for those who are members of the faith as there was in the former one. Do nonbelievers now go to church?
I don’t think so…only apostates are punished for not attending church. You are better off never having been a member than being a member who no longer attends.
I also noticed recently they changed the missionary handbook. Wonder if it now covers topics like “how to treat your convert like dog crap” . My missionary experience was atrocious and the reason why I left. How one of my missionaries got approved to be a missionary is astounding. She apparently was not emotionally mature enough to be a missionary. But I digress
22:00 "The anti Knee-high Levi's"
The honor code is for the parents. They want to think their kids are in a ‘safe’ environment.
Change the dress code? Won't all the girls get pregnant?
Well, maybe more of them.
Probably only if they practice soaking...
I was attending BYU in the 1970s when the girl took her test in the testing center in her panties (The words "in my panties" were her words, in her letter to the editor of the Daily Universe). We all had never-ending guffaws about it. Among all my then BYU student friends, there was not one of us that didn't feel that the application or enforcement of BYU dress and grooming standards wasn't total nonsense. Truly as Landon points out, the current-day Mormon Church is trying to enact "Satan's Plan," rather than permitting people to use their agency. So sadly ironic, but then the whole thing was based on a fraud anyway, which today leads to totally, totally unachievable and unrealistic expectations, and over the top BS, i.e., Tim Ballard, and Apostle Ballard's whole hearted endorsement of this wannabe "Mormon Prophet." I'm glad I'm out. Hey Rebecca and Landon, you haven't answered my e-mail yet. Nobody has had a Mormon "exit story" quite like mine. I'll be happy to have you interview me. Please let me know.
I had an aquaintance tell me she only liked the look of the white Jesus. My eyes crossed
It's too easy to laugh at this.
this would have been a good opportunity to eliminate the beard ban but nope, stuck in 1960s paranoia. The next time you attend a BYU football game look around and you'll notice that 25%+ of the men (alums) have beards.
Every picture of God and Christ they both have beards. Evidently beards are reserved for diety! Thanks for the comment.
@@mormonishpodcast1036How dare men try to be Christlike! I wonder how bearded women would be treated...
52:15 You should've added "Satans plan?" to the end of the title.
We actually were considering that!!
@@mormonishpodcast1036 edit it. It is a little click baity but it describes it more accurately.
There is not trust. The ldsp believes they must compel a certain behavior, thus admitting the 17-20 yrs of training in home & church were producing undisciplined sinners. Such a sad characterization of the future ldrs by the current ldsp. So agency is over.
Excellent point and very well said.
48:48 So Landon used his agency and was being Chrsitlike and followed the Spirit of the Law. No need for the Letter of the Law.
No wonder you all laughed throughout this video, is this for real?