The key to mastery and becoming an alien I think is this one. Forget about hotlap guides, just find a good rhythm and confidence, and then start getting faster gradually.
As a fellow simracer and teammate of him, I concur to this, just need to believe in your own rhythms, your car, and the knowledge of the situation will get you faster, as long as u know more about it, the more you can push without beyond the limits.
Exactly! One of the best advice that’s applicable to anything. Get a feeling of what you’re doing, by just jumping straight into it.. then try to do the best you can, just so you can begin to see the limitations and get whatever you do under your skin and build an intuition, then stop trying to do the “hot laps”, and focus on tangents. Like if you play counter strike, learn how to entry a side the perfect way.. you won’t be at the top, but you’re learning an important skill about the game, and that will improve your game sense a lot as well, or if it’s Karate you focus on making the right rotation with your body and make it all flow together than the actual punch, and then you learn a tangent at a time and then you go through a phase where you put it all together and you maximise mastery exponentially more than just doing it blindly.
Like an F1 racer does, to get mastered at avoiding spinning out is to mixing throttling and braking at the same moment. And that helps get your car in the state of balance between under steering and over steering. 👌
Jep give the front negative rolling resistance to have a higher resistance in the back basically the same principle that was explained in the video and AWD is in between power yes but don't floor it
Nicely explained Danny. Once it's mastered, (well..it's never really fully mastered because over confidence tends to lead to more greed), it becomes muscle memory ingrained, and you tend to forget the root cause of the physics that's causing it. Once again, great explanation.
Day 1 of sim racing after feeling like a master with a controller. Spinning like a record on a turn table out here. Physics man, you explained it with pure physics. I feel so ready to go try again.
I'm at day 2 😁 how are things 7 months on? I've been practice lapping for hours on AC and gradually getting a feel for it. Spinning lots but a bit less than day 1 lol
@@thestoicwhinger I honestly got to the point I turned some of the assists back on. Granted, I'm trying to play stuff like Forza Horizon (and a lot of my time has actually been spent playing OutRun 2) so at a certain point I felt like I was doing more work than play and compromised on some of this.
If you're on iRacing, irFFB can help quite a bit. The SOP filter goes a long way to helping you feel the weight transfer in the rear. Also, I think people (especially beginners) more often lose control under braking than under power. Or at least, catching a slide induced by throttle is a bit easier than catching one under braking. The key there is the "slow in/fast out" mantra. Learning to not compromise my exits with an overeager entrance gave me more control and helped me find time too. Rallycross or rally sims are great for learning car control. If you can learn to induce a slide and control it in a more "friendly" setting, than you'll definitely gain a feel for the limit and build reflexes for staying in control. Awesome video!
Your tutorial content is legit the best I've seen in this genre. I'm a complete novice to the wheel and am having such a hard time finding concise structured learning material outside of, i dunno, GT License tests. Please please please consider videos on even more basic concepts (over/understeer and what causes it/how to mitigate it, drive trains etc etc) i'm sure you could do them real justice
Thanks man, I appreciate the feedback - novices are never novices for very long, just keep on going because once you start stringing it all together it's gonna feel great. I have a long list of things I'd love to cover, just need the time!
This video is a masterpiece, awesome for all skill levels. By feeling I already knew a bit of how to catch a slide, but when you explained the part about the rear tyres it all came together.
Coming from a rally perspective, there's some interesting insight to be had between your circuit racing and my rally driving (at least, where RWD drivetrains are concerned =) ) It's a habit of mine stemming from RWD rallies to left-foot brake almost constantly to keep the rear tyres in check in aggressive stages, but also for another purpose - getting the weight transfer forward so the front tyres dig into the surface of the road. I'm quite used to wheelspin, but I have a lot of respect for the lads who have that level of incredibly precise throttle control to push the car to the absolute limit and using the whole road.
This was really helpful. Simple and straight forward, clearly explained. I've slogged thru countless cornering "tutorial" videos that assume a doctorate in physics to fully understand, and gotten little from them. This one's great! Keep up the good work!
Great video! I’m not sure what your plans are for part 2, but what I would love to see is some repeatable drills to help put this into practice and turn it into muscle memory.
Thank you! I watched and read quite a few guides on cars, but it's your guides that get stuck in my head the most and improve my understanding of what's happening.
Clearly spoken, no waffle or BS, paired with excellent footage and diagrams. The dart analogy really helped things click for me. This video says sponsored but it's just livery on the car--comparatively, I've seen many videos without that description obnoxiously push products right in your face. This is the antithesis of clickbait and the lessons here apply to real driving, I could send this to a friend with zero simracing interest and they wouldn't be instantly put off. That plus your up front delivery on the dd pro vs g29/csl/csw video ("I'm not going to make you wait till the end, here's the bottom line up front if you're in a hurry") got my sub. You set the standard for any informative youtube channel, let alone gaming or simracing. I wish more channels followed your example! Whatever youtube and your sponsors are paying you, you deserve more. Only thing that could improve it is if you covered how things change with AWD and FWD. I get that this is more the basics though, best not to overwhelm people with information. I'd definitely watch follow-ups in that vein.
THANK YOU so much... This was a very much needed video. One thing I've always struggled about is visualize how much countersteering to apply; I now understand that I was counter steering way too little, you gotta steer quite heavily in the opposite direction
A few years ago I was driving irl in the snow and felt my car break loose on the end during a sharp turn. I took off the power and let my wheel and car go where it was tugging in order to stop the spin. I didn't realize it but it was my experience with racing games that helped me stay in control. After I regained control I properly freaked out in realization what had happened but all this too say that this can help you in the real world too!! (Obviously irl just focus on regaining control and don't worry about keeping your speed though lol)
Thanks for this! Spinning is one of my most frustrating events in the game, especially since I feel I spin more often than others. I guess it will take a bit of time to master this, but understanding the basics will help! Thanks
If you feel like you're the odd one out, you stand to make the most gains by taking a different approach to how you have done so far. Interested to see if a fresh mindset does anything to help you, definitely let us know if you make any progress!
Great videos mate. I've only been sim racing for about 6 months, so I'm miles behind. These are great insights for me, so thank you for them. It's very disappointing to have a great race for 10 laps then bin it a couple of laps from the end. I'll be trying to put this into practice Your video on Brake Balance was an eye opener. Shaved many 10ths off my lap times.
The other way is playing Dirt Rally with a RWD car. You will automatically learn how to catch a spin😆 * amount of flies on the side windows intensifies*
Honestly though. Even doing a mostly asphalt stage with a mustang really taught me how to control the rear tires and how to judge where the grip is. A better wheel would help miles though. The Logitech ones like to loose tracking under quick steering input.
@@caseymurray7722 I think that is from the game, asphalt is a little weird on DR2.0 . Logitech wheels are good. I played years on a G27, brought recently a T300RS and is more ergonomic and improved my consistency but didn't make me faster. A well setup G27 g29 is enough to be a very good player. I managed to do a top 40 an a top 50 on the DR2.0world series stages with the t300 and is just a little little step from the g27
@@Dral.09 No I meant the g27 can have a problem where it looses tracking. It feels kinda like the belt inside slips and then the centering will change. Ive gotten used to it now but one time at the end of a stage to drive straight I had to hold the wheel 180 to the left. It's a common issue apparently. There should be a physical part to fix it but for now if you unplug and replug the wheel it fixes itself.
@@caseymurray7722 never heard off it or feel it. And I had it for 3/4 years and already bought used. The G27/29 its not belt driven, its gear driven thats why it is so noisy compared to others (silent = belt driven) like my t300. Maybe its a software problem, or you are using to much force?
Bro, I have been trying to find this kind of explanation for a year. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you explaining the feeling of the wheel in each scenario. 👍Congrats.
I usually try to combine my wheel and pedal movements directly when correcting. If I move the wheel more, I move the pedals more. I remember a picture long ago showing strings attached to the sides of a steering wheel that lead down and attached to the pedals to train them in throttle control. I think of it the same way when correcting an oversteer, and even understeer, situation.
yup, but there is a lil problem, lets say the car is very powerful, and you're on 2° gear or low gear, if you do the thing you will probably touch the bottom of the throttle somwhere, wich is not allways correct, sometimes the maximum throttle you can aply in that gear is... lets say... 70%, all gears has their own maximum input for the "straight line, clean road" condition, so you have to find that spot for each gear before doing the thing, is like if the string was sometimes shorter and wouldn't let you reach the throttle bottom, after finding the "straigh line, clean road" spot, you might also go for the "hard turn, clean road" spot, wich should be an absolutely safe spot, and practice the transition in between them pd: I mean, at least is what happened to me, I was pushing too hard on corner exit and had no safe spot, so I was driving awful
I've always had a vague idea of what to do with my feet, but as a casual racer I never actually thought adding power in certain situations would help recover the slide. I always thought letting off throttle gave the grip back. How wrong I was. This really help highlight what I should be doing. Great video!
Cheers man, I'm interested to know if this helps you - come back and let us know, especially if it's still not working for you! It's counter intuitive but once it's learnt it makes you feel like you can finish races and be better skilled.
The only thing I would say in addition to this is to know your car and know your track. Never enter into a race in a car you are unfamiliar with or at a track that you have not driven on before. Every car behaves slightly differently based on a number of factors, and each race venue is different. It's best to know how your car behaves in other venues so you have a baseline, then put in some practice laps before racing. In practice, gradually increase your speed and lower your lap times so you push your car to its limits to see where the braking points are. This will help you understand how hard you can push through each corner. Once you get a good feel for the point where the car snaps around, you know how far you can push before you get into trouble. Likewise, it's important to hit your marks, and know where you have extra room if you miss them. If you do miss your mark or get into a spin, don't be that guy that takes out other drivers in an attempt to save it. If you can't save a spin without being reckless and wrecking others, you aren't ready to be out there.
Just wow. This was dope bro. I love drifting and one of the things I like dling is sliding. And for me the instinct is always to let the car srub the speed. But now I gotta try puttin some more gentle weight transfer to help the rears grip up. Thank you bro.
I find in rally when nothing I'm doing will get the car to straighten up and it feels like it's past the point of no return, sometimes pumping the brakes will fix it. I think it may be to do with the brake balance. Because the front brakes are always stronger than the rear brakes, so by pumping them you'll repeatedly transition through a point where the front tyres are locked up but the rears are spinning, and that can be enough to start straightening the car.
Your a legend, you solved a massive problem I had. Was trying to recover the same way regardless of spin which would work sometimes, after watching this it was like a eureka moment. Just need to train it in so it's second nature. Thanks for the content
Great video. Learned how to drift in Assetto Corsa helped me huge in catching the rear in Iracing. I still get a huge grin everytime I manage so save a big slide :)
Thanks for the hard work. Great visualizations! I'm getting better at recovering early and preventing spins but the "being greedy or unfocused" part definitely comes up a lot. :P
You're welcome, and thanks for watching and sparing a minute to let me know your thoughts. This one took a LOT of revisions, rewrites, rejigs but I'm over it now
Thanks for this. I feel like I know what I'm doing IRL but the lack of seat-of-the-pants feel in the sim throws me off and I focus too much on what the wheel is doing. Idk, I just get hung up on stuff like that sometimes and lack the ability to take a step back and look at the big picture. This is a good reminder to focus on the rear. I may not be able to feel it, but I can start to consciously deduce what my feet should be doing based on the situation, and from there hopefully it'll start being ingrained in muscle memory just like when I first learned how to drive quickly.
I do wonder why racing sims don't give you a more obvious G-force indicator on account of the lack of butt-feel. Butt-feel can be quite vivid even in regular road driving, and having an accelerometer dot centered on the screen would be similarly vivid, and free the wheel's force-feedback from simulating yet another of the already quadrillion variables it's trying to communicate to you.
the dart analogy is genious. one thing that really clicked for me when spinning out and trying to catch it: initially your front tyres will want to countersteer on their own, you just have to kinda work with that a bit. but as soon as the car starts to snap back, you have to work against the force feedback or you will just start to spin out in the opposite direction and ultimately crash or completely spin out. i WANT to get into racing sims but when you don't get real life feedback of forces invovled it's not really intuitive and hard to get into imo. there's so much stuff you have to do by memory and training as opposed to feeling and intuition.
Thanks man, cheers for taking a moment to comment. At this point, to me, it IS feeling and intuition, there's no time to consciously think 'Okay, I need to do X and Y to cure this', but meditating on it beforehand helps you establish that reaction. It's definitely easier to feel it on better force feedback (I use a CSL DD, very happy)
I've been sim racing a full year now, and i've had really good car control for a few months now but i had no idea what i had done differently, watching this and im just like... yeah i do that! 😂 i think the main thing now that ive had to think about it is use of the throttle when trail braking, through long corners, i am constantly balancing the theottle with the trail braking, if you give too much brake giving it a bit of throttle just moves that weight back a bit. But i think the knowledge that i can use throttle to fix mistakes just allows me to make mistakes with my trail braking, losing that tenth or so every corner that separates me from the fastest people. I am generally around 1-3 seconds from the fastest people per lap, so its just a tenth or two every corner to go... almost there 😂
Nice Job Danny. I built a 3DOF motion sim and really can feel the rear when it's out of traction (this single motion helped me a whole lot compared to my old static rig) Thanks for posting my friend! DMAX motion sim ch
Sometimes it’s better not to try to save a slide, but to try to smoothly carry the spin through by keeping the throttle the same and turning into the spin. Something I learned from NASCAR and my small experience drifting. Sometimes trying to save a slide can cause more carnage, especially in traffic.
before watching this video, I use to use the ooga booga technique of full brake / full gas when spinning and weirdly enough I have fount that to work sometimes. I'll definitely try this during my future spins.
Definitely try to wean yourself off the panic button method if you can, it will help you progress everywhere else once you crack it and you won't have the rug pulled from under you when the day comes that flatspots become a factor in the game.
I'll have to try this. Can catch the deliberate slides when trying to slide through a corner. The tough ones are when you go left lock - right lock - left lock - right lock sea sawing half way down the straight
@@dannyleeracing anytime! I know how much work it takes to put effort into making videos in such high detail. Many sleepless nights at times I’m sure. Keep it up
All these tips apply to driving in general (real or sim in an rwd context). I was expecting tips and tricks about feedback and sensitivity settings in the sim wheel to better replicate how the race car might feel in real life. Or maybe something about how it feels to slowly unwind a sim wheel compared to a real steering wheel etc.
There is many videos that go into settings of specific wheels for specific games. I dont think that helps if you dont really know and practice those things shown in the video. And since the title is essentially "how to save yourself from spinning" it makes sense to talk about the spinning itself, how its caused and how to avoid it in several scenarios.. People also play racing games on controllers or even keyboards, so i dont see where going into wheel settings and force feedback would make any sense here but maybe i dont get your point lol
How anyone can drive in a sim with a keyboard is beyond me. I tried in Speed Dreams and immediately gave up. The cars immediately spin out as soon as you hit the gas OR the brake OR turn the wheel at any speed at any gear. Maybe having a wheel and pedals would help. I dunno. Just seems useless to try to play anything more complex than Outrun with a keyboard
So much useful info in this video. Something that they don't tell you when you get into sim racing is how much damn concentration it requires lol In my semi-recent stint of getting back into sim racing after I fixed my G29, I got a little caught up in using fast cars in Asseto corsa (F1 and LMP) I now lay in constantly attempting the Nordschleife with a GT3 car. I watched a video on a touge driving technique to due with putting weight on the front tires, and that made me use slower cars like the MX-5 cup in Ai races and training. I found that using a slow, manual car helped me somehow, as apposed to sequential via paddles. Maybe I should return to that to try and implement the tips in this video as apposed to crashing GT3 over and over again lol (Also, got a little caught on setup and not skill)
Cheers mate, thanks for the view and comment - get back to me with any questions, I'll be working on Part 2 soon enough and we'll touch on other facets of the anti-spin culture
Yep! As long as iRacing doesn't take into account Flatspotting, then this is also a viable technique, but if you can learn to do it without then you won't be flummoxed when they finally bring it in. Flatspotting is such a big problem in real racing so they really should work on it! Only rFactor 2 and ACC seem to have any flatspot generation
Before watching, this little thing: I had always opted for oversteer balance. Figuring with my dirt road experience I could save most everything. (Counter-steer with pedals.) Then I read about F1 aces' preferences, and yes of course it's a split, but this gem: *_oversteer is somewhat more consistent. AND also, somewhat more predictable._*_ ("Somewhat nervous"?)_ So, a bit of understeer when I know it's happening? rather than that same amount of over but much more by surprise?! Got me rethinking setup and BB! p.s. DANGER: destabilizing the car 🙂
@@dannyleeracing This is a revelation to me. My instinct was to ease off the throttle when I got into a skid to get the car under control but now I;m getting out of skids with more throttle. Of course, I'm also trying to follow your advice to avoid skids! Skidding off the track a lot spoils the fun of racing.
Great video, most times when I’m entering a spin through oversteer I’m able to quickly correct it/save it and get back on the throttle relatively quickly. But I swear sometimes I’m exiting a corner I just enter a spin out of nowhere and seemingly have zero control after I lose the rears, so infuriating lol.
at 2.50 u said to add throttle+countersteer when u spin (while coasting). try this 1. higher diff lock coast (above 50%). 2. 2,3 degress more downforce rear. 3. lower front caster bt 1,2 degress.
I would think of myself as an "above average" spin stopper, as I play quite a lot of rally games, and they try to spin quite a bit. But this was still a really nice and informative video
I'm practicing drifting in assetto corsa, and I think some of this advice might help me despite oversteering being the goal. I can initiate a drift and can hold it for a bit, but I struggle on the exit trying to ease transition into a straight or another corner.
My biggest problem has been that I overcorrect way too much. In the heat of the moment it’s what feels right but then in the next instant I’m spinning in the opposite direction. It’s a very hard balance to get right
Well, it’s the same as in a real car. You have to anticipate that you’re going to kick the rear out and play with small steering inputs while pushing and being constant with your smooth inputs on the throttle. If you start spinning, stay on the gas and countersteer as quick as possible, of course it depends on exactly what the situation is. It may be better to lightly lift off the gas smoothly, usually a little bit of throttle helps to keep it stable but it’s not always going to work.
Awesome video thanks Danny. Though I have been sim racing for years, it seems strange but the only sim giving me trouble is ACC. I can catch slides in nearly everything else including F1 games, AC no problem, but for some reason ACC (in particular GT3 cars) just seems no matter how quick I wind on the opposite lock, it just gets away from me. But with this advice, I think I will try and focus on the feet more and see if I can get somewhere.
What I would really need is an ice or snow track where one could practice this at a slower pace. The moment reaction time was mentioned I was lost. I have never had good reflexes and now above 50 it does not get any better. There are still these sloooow spins that may happen in certain corners, maybe I have a chance at those but they are awfully hard for me to provoke when I want to.
Have you tried rallycross, or even a rally sim like Dirt Rally? (1 or 2, both are great) I find doing a warm-up session messing around in a rallycross car on a dirt track gets my hands moving freely, and my mind tuned into those little cues. Also, if you're on iRacing and haven't tried irFFB, definitely give it a go. The SOP (seat of pants) filter made a huge difference for me. I went from preferring tighter setups and forward brake bias to loose and dialing it back almost overnight.
Get yourself on the Centripetal circuit and intentionally slide the car. Get use to driving the car out of control and when it happens on a circuit, during a race you’ll instinctively know what to do.
Thanks for the tips. I'm actually not using iRacing (I don't like their buy + subscription model). Dirt Raly is probably a good training ground too but I think my gaming time will be to limited for one more Sim (I actually 'main' at FPS games). I'm mainly driving in Raceroom and some ACC. This weeks racing was with the classic Porsche Carrera. It's a slow car with tail engine and no TC. Ideal for spinning and almost as driving in snow. It was great for practicing the tips above and after some hours doing that I stated to get some hang of it (still far from good but I can feel the improvement). Then switching to a modern GT3 Porsche it was fairly doable to a stop spinning a lot more often than I did before. My main reaction is to let go of the throttle when it makes it worse so this is the reflex I need to 'unlearn'. ' I'm also a bit keen to press the break when I get out of my comfort zone during a turn, also a disaster move.
Damn some Iracing cars look stunning in action yet the surroundings are from 2010. I get it’s to maintain high frame rates on lower end machines while keeping the HD car look but that’s what graphics settings are for 😁
Hi Danny thanks for the videos mate! Just bought the GT Omega Titan using your affiliate link! Going to be used with fanatec CSL DD or DD1! I’ve watched a few videos and looks like the DD1 will still be ok with it, what’s your opinion mate?
Cheers mate, very grateful that you took a second to click through, really appreciated! I haven't had my hand on either a titan or a DD1, I can only vouch for the ART and Prime with the CSL DD - Karl Gosling may have some info on the Titan and might also have videos that show it in use with a wheelbase, that might help you work things out. Only comment I can make is that the CSL DD has a bit of a waiting list, whereas the DD1 is ready to go, so if you're putting something together with a view to using it soon then the full DD bases might be your only option!
Danny Discuss the various drivetrains and what causes the spins , I just feel the GTR 35 /34/ can grip at the front better ... If lancia Deltas allow big engine swaps 👊😶
The key to mastery and becoming an alien I think is this one. Forget about hotlap guides, just find a good rhythm and confidence, and then start getting faster gradually.
Yes, i play Beam.NG drive and it's easy to underestimate my speed.
Yes and the lock that key goes in is what part of all the things to make a above av driver? Lol.
As a fellow simracer and teammate of him, I concur to this, just need to believe in your own rhythms, your car, and the knowledge of the situation will get you faster, as long as u know more about it, the more you can push without beyond the limits.
Exactly! One of the best advice that’s applicable to anything. Get a feeling of what you’re doing, by just jumping straight into it.. then try to do the best you can, just so you can begin to see the limitations and get whatever you do under your skin and build an intuition, then stop trying to do the “hot laps”, and focus on tangents. Like if you play counter strike, learn how to entry a side the perfect way.. you won’t be at the top, but you’re learning an important skill about the game, and that will improve your game sense a lot as well, or if it’s Karate you focus on making the right rotation with your body and make it all flow together than the actual punch, and then you learn a tangent at a time and then you go through a phase where you put it all together and you maximise mastery exponentially more than just doing it blindly.
Like an F1 racer does, to get mastered at avoiding spinning out is to mixing throttling and braking at the same moment. And that helps get your car in the state of balance between under steering and over steering. 👌
What I have done like 10 years ago when I entered the sim racing world:
Step1: Get a FWD touring car.
Step2: floor it.
*Understeers into a gravel trap*
if it's FWD, what you wanna do on a slide is countersteer and apply throttle
Jep give the front negative rolling resistance to have a higher resistance in the back basically the same principle that was explained in the video and AWD is in between power yes but don't floor it
"You're spinning a front wheel drive car? What are you doing? Put more throttle in."
This is exactly what I am ding right now. I am much faster in am Tcr 😂 And control much more conpared to another car
Nicely explained Danny. Once it's mastered, (well..it's never really fully mastered because over confidence tends to lead to more greed), it becomes muscle memory ingrained, and you tend to forget the root cause of the physics that's causing it. Once again, great explanation.
Day 1 of sim racing after feeling like a master with a controller.
Spinning like a record on a turn table out here.
Physics man, you explained it with pure physics.
I feel so ready to go try again.
That awesome man, stay inspired and you'll be alright
I'm at day 2 😁 how are things 7 months on? I've been practice lapping for hours on AC and gradually getting a feel for it. Spinning lots but a bit less than day 1 lol
@@thestoicwhinger I honestly got to the point I turned some of the assists back on. Granted, I'm trying to play stuff like Forza Horizon (and a lot of my time has actually been spent playing OutRun 2) so at a certain point I felt like I was doing more work than play and compromised on some of this.
If you're on iRacing, irFFB can help quite a bit. The SOP filter goes a long way to helping you feel the weight transfer in the rear. Also, I think people (especially beginners) more often lose control under braking than under power. Or at least, catching a slide induced by throttle is a bit easier than catching one under braking. The key there is the "slow in/fast out" mantra. Learning to not compromise my exits with an overeager entrance gave me more control and helped me find time too. Rallycross or rally sims are great for learning car control. If you can learn to induce a slide and control it in a more "friendly" setting, than you'll definitely gain a feel for the limit and build reflexes for staying in control. Awesome video!
Your tutorial content is legit the best I've seen in this genre. I'm a complete novice to the wheel and am having such a hard time finding concise structured learning material outside of, i dunno, GT License tests. Please please please consider videos on even more basic concepts (over/understeer and what causes it/how to mitigate it, drive trains etc etc) i'm sure you could do them real justice
Thanks man, I appreciate the feedback - novices are never novices for very long, just keep on going because once you start stringing it all together it's gonna feel great. I have a long list of things I'd love to cover, just need the time!
This video is a masterpiece, awesome for all skill levels. By feeling I already knew a bit of how to catch a slide, but when you explained the part about the rear tyres it all came together.
Cheers man, too bloody kind
2 years later and STILL I MUST comment that your teaching and explanation skills are magnificent. Well done man, and thanks. 👍🏾
Thanks man, appreciate the kind comments
Coming from a rally perspective, there's some interesting insight to be had between your circuit racing and my rally driving (at least, where RWD drivetrains are concerned =) )
It's a habit of mine stemming from RWD rallies to left-foot brake almost constantly to keep the rear tyres in check in aggressive stages, but also for another purpose - getting the weight transfer forward so the front tyres dig into the surface of the road. I'm quite used to wheelspin, but I have a lot of respect for the lads who have that level of incredibly precise throttle control to push the car to the absolute limit and using the whole road.
This was really helpful. Simple and straight forward, clearly explained. I've slogged thru countless cornering "tutorial" videos that assume a doctorate in physics to fully understand, and gotten little from them. This one's great! Keep up the good work!
Thanks man, that's exactly what I hope to hear! Cheers
Great video! I’m not sure what your plans are for part 2, but what I would love to see is some repeatable drills to help put this into practice and turn it into muscle memory.
One drill that helped me is doing laps at the Centripetal circuit and trying not to spin out there....
Skid pad
It's my opinion everyone should delve into drifting. It is as much fun as it teaches you to manage the car in those unstable states.
Thank you! I watched and read quite a few guides on cars, but it's your guides that get stuck in my head the most and improve my understanding of what's happening.
Clearly spoken, no waffle or BS, paired with excellent footage and diagrams. The dart analogy really helped things click for me. This video says sponsored but it's just livery on the car--comparatively, I've seen many videos without that description obnoxiously push products right in your face. This is the antithesis of clickbait and the lessons here apply to real driving, I could send this to a friend with zero simracing interest and they wouldn't be instantly put off.
That plus your up front delivery on the dd pro vs g29/csl/csw video ("I'm not going to make you wait till the end, here's the bottom line up front if you're in a hurry") got my sub. You set the standard for any informative youtube channel, let alone gaming or simracing. I wish more channels followed your example! Whatever youtube and your sponsors are paying you, you deserve more.
Only thing that could improve it is if you covered how things change with AWD and FWD. I get that this is more the basics though, best not to overwhelm people with information. I'd definitely watch follow-ups in that vein.
Thanks so much Peter, this sort of feedback is like filling up the fuel tank ready to face the next slog! Much appreciated.
THANK YOU so much... This was a very much needed video. One thing I've always struggled about is visualize how much countersteering to apply; I now understand that I was counter steering way too little, you gotta steer quite heavily in the opposite direction
Thanks for watching and commenting, I really hope this helps you out. Come back and let me know if you're still unsure about something!
@@dannyleeracing I'll sure do, but I guess it's just a matter of practice now!
A few years ago I was driving irl in the snow and felt my car break loose on the end during a sharp turn. I took off the power and let my wheel and car go where it was tugging in order to stop the spin. I didn't realize it but it was my experience with racing games that helped me stay in control. After I regained control I properly freaked out in realization what had happened but all this too say that this can help you in the real world too!! (Obviously irl just focus on regaining control and don't worry about keeping your speed though lol)
Thanks for this! Spinning is one of my most frustrating events in the game, especially since I feel I spin more often than others. I guess it will take a bit of time to master this, but understanding the basics will help! Thanks
If you feel like you're the odd one out, you stand to make the most gains by taking a different approach to how you have done so far. Interested to see if a fresh mindset does anything to help you, definitely let us know if you make any progress!
will do!
Great video. Switching gears up or down can also help with the recovery
Great videos mate. I've only been sim racing for about 6 months, so I'm miles behind. These are great insights for me, so thank you for them. It's very disappointing to have a great race for 10 laps then bin it a couple of laps from the end. I'll be trying to put this into practice Your video on Brake Balance was an eye opener. Shaved many 10ths off my lap times.
The other way is playing Dirt Rally with a RWD car. You will automatically learn how to catch a spin😆 * amount of flies on the side windows intensifies*
Honestly though. Even doing a mostly asphalt stage with a mustang really taught me how to control the rear tires and how to judge where the grip is. A better wheel would help miles though. The Logitech ones like to loose tracking under quick steering input.
@@caseymurray7722 I think that is from the game, asphalt is a little weird on DR2.0 . Logitech wheels are good. I played years on a G27, brought recently a T300RS and is more ergonomic and improved my consistency but didn't make me faster. A well setup G27 g29 is enough to be a very good player.
I managed to do a top 40 an a top 50 on the DR2.0world series stages with the t300 and is just a little little step from the g27
@@Dral.09 No I meant the g27 can have a problem where it looses tracking. It feels kinda like the belt inside slips and then the centering will change. Ive gotten used to it now but one time at the end of a stage to drive straight I had to hold the wheel 180 to the left. It's a common issue apparently. There should be a physical part to fix it but for now if you unplug and replug the wheel it fixes itself.
@@caseymurray7722 never heard off it or feel it. And I had it for 3/4 years and already bought used. The G27/29 its not belt driven, its gear driven thats why it is so noisy compared to others (silent = belt driven) like my t300.
Maybe its a software problem, or you are using to much force?
@@caseymurray7722 you play with the logitech profiler open?
Bro, I have been trying to find this kind of explanation for a year. Thank you so much.
I really appreciate you explaining the feeling of the wheel in each scenario.
👍Congrats.
Cheers man, thanks for the feedback - I really hope it helps folks look at things from an unusual angle
I usually try to combine my wheel and pedal movements directly when correcting. If I move the wheel more, I move the pedals more. I remember a picture long ago showing strings attached to the sides of a steering wheel that lead down and attached to the pedals to train them in throttle control. I think of it the same way when correcting an oversteer, and even understeer, situation.
yup, but there is a lil problem, lets say the car is very powerful, and you're on 2° gear or low gear, if you do the thing you will probably touch the bottom of the throttle somwhere, wich is not allways correct, sometimes the maximum throttle you can aply in that gear is... lets say... 70%, all gears has their own maximum input for the "straight line, clean road" condition, so you have to find that spot for each gear before doing the thing, is like if the string was sometimes shorter and wouldn't let you reach the throttle bottom, after finding the "straigh line, clean road" spot, you might also go for the "hard turn, clean road" spot, wich should be an absolutely safe spot, and practice the transition in between them
pd: I mean, at least is what happened to me, I was pushing too hard on corner exit and had no safe spot, so I was driving awful
This is the most relatable person I've seen since I started simracing
I've always had a vague idea of what to do with my feet, but as a casual racer I never actually thought adding power in certain situations would help recover the slide. I always thought letting off throttle gave the grip back. How wrong I was. This really help highlight what I should be doing. Great video!
Cheers man, I'm interested to know if this helps you - come back and let us know, especially if it's still not working for you! It's counter intuitive but once it's learnt it makes you feel like you can finish races and be better skilled.
This video is an absolute gem. Well done!
Cheers, hope it really helps!
Thanks for the video lad. This is really helpful to visualize what is happening "under me" in the rig.
Incredible guide. I never watched such a simple and time efficient guide for games.
Thanks man, always refreshing to hear what viewers think
The only thing I would say in addition to this is to know your car and know your track. Never enter into a race in a car you are unfamiliar with or at a track that you have not driven on before. Every car behaves slightly differently based on a number of factors, and each race venue is different. It's best to know how your car behaves in other venues so you have a baseline, then put in some practice laps before racing. In practice, gradually increase your speed and lower your lap times so you push your car to its limits to see where the braking points are. This will help you understand how hard you can push through each corner. Once you get a good feel for the point where the car snaps around, you know how far you can push before you get into trouble. Likewise, it's important to hit your marks, and know where you have extra room if you miss them. If you do miss your mark or get into a spin, don't be that guy that takes out other drivers in an attempt to save it. If you can't save a spin without being reckless and wrecking others, you aren't ready to be out there.
Just wow. This was dope bro. I love drifting and one of the things I like dling is sliding. And for me the instinct is always to let the car srub the speed. But now I gotta try puttin some more gentle weight transfer to help the rears grip up. Thank you bro.
I find in rally when nothing I'm doing will get the car to straighten up and it feels like it's past the point of no return, sometimes pumping the brakes will fix it. I think it may be to do with the brake balance. Because the front brakes are always stronger than the rear brakes, so by pumping them you'll repeatedly transition through a point where the front tyres are locked up but the rears are spinning, and that can be enough to start straightening the car.
Your a legend, you solved a massive problem I had. Was trying to recover the same way regardless of spin which would work sometimes, after watching this it was like a eureka moment. Just need to train it in so it's second nature. Thanks for the content
Thanks man, it's always so good to hear this
Great video. Learned how to drift in Assetto Corsa helped me huge in catching the rear in Iracing. I still get a huge grin everytime I manage so save a big slide :)
Thanks for the hard work. Great visualizations! I'm getting better at recovering early and preventing spins but the "being greedy or unfocused" part definitely comes up a lot. :P
Great video. it would be great if you made one like this, but for FWD cars!
For FWD cars, tap the brakes pretty hard before going into a turn, transfer more weight to the front wheels, will give you much more grip.
Thanks so much for all the videos you put out. I've learned so much from them and I've improved as a simracer because of your work.
Thanks man, I appreciate hearing that
Ridiculously well put mate !! Thank you for putting the effort and time to demonstrate and explain the way you do. Really appreciate it. Cheers
You're welcome, and thanks for watching and sparing a minute to let me know your thoughts. This one took a LOT of revisions, rewrites, rejigs but I'm over it now
@@dannyleeracing I believe you. Quality beats quantity 👌 Thanks again
Thanks for this. I feel like I know what I'm doing IRL but the lack of seat-of-the-pants feel in the sim throws me off and I focus too much on what the wheel is doing. Idk, I just get hung up on stuff like that sometimes and lack the ability to take a step back and look at the big picture. This is a good reminder to focus on the rear. I may not be able to feel it, but I can start to consciously deduce what my feet should be doing based on the situation, and from there hopefully it'll start being ingrained in muscle memory just like when I first learned how to drive quickly.
Cheers man, I really hope it helps - if it makes a difference or if you still struggle, come back and let me know and I/we can try and help.
I do wonder why racing sims don't give you a more obvious G-force indicator on account of the lack of butt-feel. Butt-feel can be quite vivid even in regular road driving, and having an accelerometer dot centered on the screen would be similarly vivid, and free the wheel's force-feedback from simulating yet another of the already quadrillion variables it's trying to communicate to you.
Growing up where it snowed a lot I always heard it put very succinctly:
Steer into the skid.
the dart analogy is genious.
one thing that really clicked for me when spinning out and trying to catch it: initially your front tyres will want to countersteer on their own, you just have to kinda work with that a bit. but as soon as the car starts to snap back, you have to work against the force feedback or you will just start to spin out in the opposite direction and ultimately crash or completely spin out.
i WANT to get into racing sims but when you don't get real life feedback of forces invovled it's not really intuitive and hard to get into imo. there's so much stuff you have to do by memory and training as opposed to feeling and intuition.
Thanks man, cheers for taking a moment to comment. At this point, to me, it IS feeling and intuition, there's no time to consciously think 'Okay, I need to do X and Y to cure this', but meditating on it beforehand helps you establish that reaction. It's definitely easier to feel it on better force feedback (I use a CSL DD, very happy)
Hi great video, the best I've seen explaining technical stuff in an accessible way and clear how to apply by yourself, simply perfect!👍
I've been sim racing a full year now, and i've had really good car control for a few months now but i had no idea what i had done differently, watching this and im just like... yeah i do that! 😂 i think the main thing now that ive had to think about it is use of the throttle when trail braking, through long corners, i am constantly balancing the theottle with the trail braking, if you give too much brake giving it a bit of throttle just moves that weight back a bit. But i think the knowledge that i can use throttle to fix mistakes just allows me to make mistakes with my trail braking, losing that tenth or so every corner that separates me from the fastest people. I am generally around 1-3 seconds from the fastest people per lap, so its just a tenth or two every corner to go... almost there 😂
Have to say this is one of the most informative video someone wanting to get faster could watch and for those who take half the grid out with them 🤣
Nice Job Danny. I built a 3DOF motion sim and really can feel the rear when it's out of traction (this single motion helped me a whole lot compared to my old static rig) Thanks for posting my friend! DMAX motion sim ch
Sometimes it’s better not to try to save a slide, but to try to smoothly carry the spin through by keeping the throttle the same and turning into the spin. Something I learned from NASCAR and my small experience drifting. Sometimes trying to save a slide can cause more carnage, especially in traffic.
before watching this video, I use to use the ooga booga technique of full brake / full gas when spinning and weirdly enough I have fount that to work sometimes.
I'll definitely try this during my future spins.
Definitely try to wean yourself off the panic button method if you can, it will help you progress everywhere else once you crack it and you won't have the rug pulled from under you when the day comes that flatspots become a factor in the game.
This video is absolutely brilliant, very well explained and shown
Thanks man, comment very much appreciated. Hope you find it helps
Thankks for this video! It is very helpful!
Cheers OG follower!
@@dannyleeracing No problem, your videos are always so good.
Excellent instruction Danny always breaking it down super clearly!
I'll have to try this. Can catch the deliberate slides when trying to slide through a corner. The tough ones are when you go left lock - right lock - left lock - right lock sea sawing half way down the straight
This is brilliant! Great work putting it together 👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Great advise, well presented ,love the hit on the head flinch😂👍🇦🇺
Cheers man, thanks for the view! I can take a hit
Amazing video. Thanks for taking the time to put the work into it
Cheers man, thanks for the comment and for watching!
@@dannyleeracing anytime! I know how much work it takes to put effort into making videos in such high detail. Many sleepless nights at times I’m sure. Keep it up
Mazepin would do well to watch this before the start of the Mexican GP.
Perfect video exactly what I was looking for thank you very much
what about down shifting when your rear wheels come around, sometimes i go to give it gas to get grip when I'm in a higher gear and feel nothing,
You’re absolutely right Mr. Ruffner you’re the smartest person I’ve ever known
All these tips apply to driving in general (real or sim in an rwd context). I was expecting tips and tricks about feedback and sensitivity settings in the sim wheel to better replicate how the race car might feel in real life. Or maybe something about how it feels to slowly unwind a sim wheel compared to a real steering wheel etc.
There is many videos that go into settings of specific wheels for specific games. I dont think that helps if you dont really know and practice those things shown in the video. And since the title is essentially "how to save yourself from spinning" it makes sense to talk about the spinning itself, how its caused and how to avoid it in several scenarios.. People also play racing games on controllers or even keyboards, so i dont see where going into wheel settings and force feedback would make any sense here but maybe i dont get your point lol
How anyone can drive in a sim with a keyboard is beyond me. I tried in Speed Dreams and immediately gave up. The cars immediately spin out as soon as you hit the gas OR the brake OR turn the wheel at any speed at any gear. Maybe having a wheel and pedals would help. I dunno. Just seems useless to try to play anything more complex than Outrun with a keyboard
Your videos are amazing! Greetings from Brazil!
So much useful info in this video. Something that they don't tell you when you get into sim racing is how much damn concentration it requires lol
In my semi-recent stint of getting back into sim racing after I fixed my G29, I got a little caught up in using fast cars in Asseto corsa (F1 and LMP) I now lay in constantly attempting the Nordschleife with a GT3 car. I watched a video on a touge driving technique to due with putting weight on the front tires, and that made me use slower cars like the MX-5 cup in Ai races and training. I found that using a slow, manual car helped me somehow, as apposed to sequential via paddles. Maybe I should return to that to try and implement the tips in this video as apposed to crashing GT3 over and over again lol
(Also, got a little caught on setup and not skill)
Good video. For those who TL;DR, apply more downforce to rear.
Under rated content.
Wonderful explanation. I want to apply it straight away, so on to the sim :)
Cheers mate, thanks for the view and comment - get back to me with any questions, I'll be working on Part 2 soon enough and we'll touch on other facets of the anti-spin culture
In iRacing when it's went past beyond the point of control if you smash both brake & accelerator at the same time can save it also 😉
Yep! As long as iRacing doesn't take into account Flatspotting, then this is also a viable technique, but if you can learn to do it without then you won't be flummoxed when they finally bring it in. Flatspotting is such a big problem in real racing so they really should work on it! Only rFactor 2 and ACC seem to have any flatspot generation
GT Sport too!
@@dannyleeracing Raceroom has flatspots too
This video was fire
I have the GT Omega ART. 10/10 would buy again.
Great job. Easy to understand and makes sense. Now just to apply it.
Cheers man, thanks for watching and commenting! Let me know if it helps you chip anything out of this particular brick wall
Before watching, this little thing: I had always opted for oversteer balance. Figuring with my dirt road experience I could save most everything. (Counter-steer with pedals.)
Then I read about F1 aces' preferences, and yes of course it's a split, but this gem: *_oversteer is somewhat more consistent. AND also, somewhat more predictable._*_ ("Somewhat nervous"?)_
So, a bit of understeer when I know it's happening? rather than that same amount of over but much more by surprise?! Got me rethinking setup and BB!
p.s. DANGER: destabilizing the car 🙂
Absolutely brilliant. Thanks so much
Glad it was helpful! Cheers for stopping to leave a comment
@@dannyleeracing This is a revelation to me. My instinct was to ease off the throttle when I got into a skid to get the car under control but now I;m getting out of skids with more throttle. Of course, I'm also trying to follow your advice to avoid skids! Skidding off the track a lot spoils the fun of racing.
Great stuff man....THNK YOU
Great video, most times when I’m entering a spin through oversteer I’m able to quickly correct it/save it and get back on the throttle relatively quickly. But I swear sometimes I’m exiting a corner I just enter a spin out of nowhere and seemingly have zero control after I lose the rears, so infuriating lol.
at 2.50 u said to add throttle+countersteer when u spin (while coasting). try this
1. higher diff lock coast (above 50%).
2. 2,3 degress more downforce rear.
3. lower front caster bt 1,2 degress.
Just what I needed 😅
7:36 Drive a Firestone 😈
I can’t be the only one that thought of that saying 😂
Solid video mate
I would think of myself as an "above average" spin stopper, as I play quite a lot of rally games, and they try to spin quite a bit. But this was still a really nice and informative video
5:56 until ur going 160 mph at atlanta motor speedway in a nascar and front tires are smoother then a bowling lane
Thank you !
Thanks! Is there any difference between Front or Rear wheel drive in terms of how you stop spins?
Such a great video!
Another great video. Cheers mate
Cheers mate, thanks for the support
Spun out today IRL at turn 1 Road Atlanta, i find it hilarious that this video is Road Atlanta
thank you very much, this has helped me.
Great video. Now what do I do if I spin out on the straight before the corner.
You got a new sub. SUPERB video! Thanks!
Thanks man, appreciate the sub - every new sub is another nudge towards some awesome stuff in future so thank you!!
I'm practicing drifting in assetto corsa, and I think some of this advice might help me despite oversteering being the goal. I can initiate a drift and can hold it for a bit, but I struggle on the exit trying to ease transition into a straight or another corner.
My biggest problem has been that I overcorrect way too much. In the heat of the moment it’s what feels right but then in the next instant I’m spinning in the opposite direction. It’s a very hard balance to get right
Well, it’s the same as in a real car. You have to anticipate that you’re going to kick the rear out and play with small steering inputs while pushing and being constant with your smooth inputs on the throttle. If you start spinning, stay on the gas and countersteer as quick as possible, of course it depends on exactly what the situation is. It may be better to lightly lift off the gas smoothly, usually a little bit of throttle helps to keep it stable but it’s not always going to work.
Great video!
Countersteering too much can actually make things worse as you can gain angle and as the traction comes back you'll get thrown the opposite way
Indeed, sometimes countersteering means just straightening the front wheels if it's not too far gone
Awesome video thanks Danny. Though I have been sim racing for years, it seems strange but the only sim giving me trouble is ACC. I can catch slides in nearly everything else including F1 games, AC no problem, but for some reason ACC (in particular GT3 cars) just seems no matter how quick I wind on the opposite lock, it just gets away from me. But with this advice, I think I will try and focus on the feet more and see if I can get somewhere.
Great video :)
Doc Hudson : Turn left to go right
What I would really need is an ice or snow track where one could practice this at a slower pace.
The moment reaction time was mentioned I was lost. I have never had good reflexes and now above 50 it does not get any better. There are still these sloooow spins that may happen in certain corners, maybe I have a chance at those but they are awfully hard for me to provoke when I want to.
Have you tried rallycross, or even a rally sim like Dirt Rally? (1 or 2, both are great) I find doing a warm-up session messing around in a rallycross car on a dirt track gets my hands moving freely, and my mind tuned into those little cues. Also, if you're on iRacing and haven't tried irFFB, definitely give it a go. The SOP (seat of pants) filter made a huge difference for me. I went from preferring tighter setups and forward brake bias to loose and dialing it back almost overnight.
Get yourself on the Centripetal circuit and intentionally slide the car. Get use to driving the car out of control and when it happens on a circuit, during a race you’ll instinctively know what to do.
Thanks for the tips. I'm actually not using iRacing (I don't like their buy + subscription model). Dirt Raly is probably a good training ground too but I think my gaming time will be to limited for one more Sim (I actually 'main' at FPS games). I'm mainly driving in Raceroom and some ACC.
This weeks racing was with the classic Porsche Carrera. It's a slow car with tail engine and no TC. Ideal for spinning and almost as driving in snow. It was great for practicing the tips above and after some hours doing that I stated to get some hang of it (still far from good but I can feel the improvement). Then switching to a modern GT3 Porsche it was fairly doable to a stop spinning a lot more often than I did before. My main reaction is to let go of the throttle when it makes it worse so this is the reflex I need to 'unlearn'. ' I'm also a bit keen to press the break when I get out of my comfort zone during a turn, also a disaster move.
@@olavafargamer757 Just get Assetto Corsa for like 5 bucks and learn drifting for a bit. it'll make you see oversteer in an entirely different light
Converting from ACC to iRacing is so hard. I can't stop spinning even with TC and ABS. The braking ideology is SO different between both games.
Damn some Iracing cars look stunning in action yet the surroundings are from 2010. I get it’s to maintain high frame rates on lower end machines while keeping the HD car look but that’s what graphics settings are for 😁
Danny Lee i should take maybe a video and u can see why this happens? Have u played forza motorsport 7 iam doing the muscle car race seeker challenge.
Hi Danny thanks for the videos mate! Just bought the GT Omega Titan using your affiliate link! Going to be used with fanatec CSL DD or DD1!
I’ve watched a few videos and looks like the DD1 will still be ok with it, what’s your opinion mate?
Cheers mate, very grateful that you took a second to click through, really appreciated! I haven't had my hand on either a titan or a DD1, I can only vouch for the ART and Prime with the CSL DD - Karl Gosling may have some info on the Titan and might also have videos that show it in use with a wheelbase, that might help you work things out. Only comment I can make is that the CSL DD has a bit of a waiting list, whereas the DD1 is ready to go, so if you're putting something together with a view to using it soon then the full DD bases might be your only option!
Danny Discuss the various drivetrains and what causes the spins , I just feel the GTR 35 /34/ can grip at the front better ...
If lancia Deltas allow big engine swaps 👊😶
Get into drifting. That made me such a better road driver
I just do it NASCAR style, hold it wide open and full opposite lock. Full send baby!
I am new to wheel. I mainly bought it to play simcade style games like Need for Speed, CarX, and Forza Horizon. Do these principles still apply?