It seems that something around the 3K seems to be the upper limit for affordability. Choose a couple of 5-6K bikes with 40% off (not difficult to find) and test them.
Nice review and decent comparison. You did draw a little contrast between the rear suspension systems but not enough in my opinion to effectively differentiate. There are still those in the peanut gallery (even in this comment section) who insist that Specialized copied Trek. It only takes a few minutes of casual research to realize they are not at all similar given that even Trek doesn't refer to the rear shock as a "shock" but a dampener. Likewise, whereas the Epic has a swingarm, the Trek has a "strut" with the dampener slider incorporated into the assembly as a single molded unit. That's why it is proprietary. Specialized still uses a conventional rear shock that pivots at the front and floats with the swingarm linkage at the rear (and is thus, hopefully, more serviceable by those who prefer to do their own maintenance).
I loved my first generation 2004 Epic, with the brain shock but would often look down at the rear and wonder if it was actually doing anything. 20 years later and sounds like these guys feel the same way. 😂
Thank you, friends, for this comparison. Reading separate tests of these bikes you can find same conclusions, and now we have it in one test. It's very helpful! Thanks!
Hopefully those proprietary shocks will be serviceable and / or replaceable with an alternative in the near future. Otherwise in 5 years or so if either brand decides they will no longer service them the frames will end up as scrap.
Internally, the one on the specialized is identical to a regular sidluxe ultimate. So other than the actual body of the shock, the service items are exactly the same.
@@tylerbonaguidi9183 I havent much content on the Trek. But that might be the case for that one as well. Was looking at a epic wc myself, but they were out of stock in my size/color for months, so kind of cooled off on the idea.
@@B-gh7md Hello, ok so I'm hesitating between the Epic 7 Sworks because the bike looks shorter and more fun on single track. Do you think the brain 2.1 is a good value ? Is it stil linteresting compared to Epic 8 or Epic WC and it is just more maintenance.
@@oceanedetotes I do like the brain for racing but probably not necessary otherwise. The World Cup is an amazing race bike. I have the epic 8 too and it’s a tad slower but much nicer to ride as a training/fun bike.
Yes, because has tire 2.40" with 58mm width (ex. Bontrager XR3 2.40) and 2.40" with 63mm width ( ex: Michelin Wild Enduro 2.40). You need to find one 2.4 with 60mm max.
9 months late to the party but I stopped watching after that comment. And to think you have the better spec with worse brakes and a rigid post?? Ridiculous.
for me, Trek always wins ! but to be fair, each one of you has to try both bikes and then judge. because everyone is talking about his own experience with the one bike he had ! overall, if i've been gifted one of these, I wouldn't mind since these 2 bikes are flagships and very expensive !
Yeah, and them adding a fox dropper just to keep the weight lower, instead of just speccing it with an rockshox one, when the rest of the build kit is sram/rs annoys me
@@Doggeppyeah, but the trek with the dropper weighs the same as the specialized with a solid carbon post.. it has an extra cable that the specialized doesnt have AND the trek has a remote lockout for on-the-go adjustments vs having to get off the spec. And manually adjust things. Either way, I think they both could use some finer details to make them better. The one piece bar and stem combos gotta go. I have one on my procaliber and they are too stiff and I cant adjust anything about them. Specialized needs to work on that brain damper, it does not provide a true stiff ride up front like an actual locked out fork and still has give when riding on gravel roads. Also, their internal cable routing through the headset needs to be obiterated off the face of the planet. I cannot stand the look or the hassle of dealing with headseat routed cables 🤮
1:36 rusty chain!? i choose the SC because of the easy set of the backsuspension, higher crank, and not SWorks because they steel the design from Trek. For me the SC gen 1 more then the gen 2 because 60mm and 100mm is more then enough for me. What are the prices?
I had a top spec trek caliber for a year and a month ago I took the s works wc epic for a ride, the epic is so much better! The trek is for sale and the epic is on order
I do work at a Trek store so yes I am a little biased. However, recently Specialized has been shamelessly copying Trek. On the new Diverge "Future Shock" they just made a less reliable, heavier, and uglier IsoSpeed. And with this integrated shock on the Specialized Epic WC they followed the integrated shock design as Treks IsoStrut , while just making it heavier and less capable due to its shorter travel, lack of dropper post yet still having slacker head tube angle. On top of all that the Specialized has once again a made a less reliable and servicable rear shock. And if it means anything even the Specialized Factory Team wont even be riding on the Epic World Cup this year, a bike CALLED the "World Cup"
Well darn I guess Trek was the first to invent compliance in the front it guess no one better try and make a better version of it….or one that actually works. The super caliber is heavier than the WC and less travel, sorry you got it backwards
@evanring2021 Supercaliber Gen 2 has 80mm rear travel vs Specialized 75mm. I was incorrect about the frame weight however the factory built top spec Supercaliber is far more capable than the S Works Epic WC while being nearly the same weight, with only a couple hundred grams difference. And I'm not saying other companies can't innovate and adapt on whatever Trek creates, I'm just saying specialized simply made a worse version of IsoSpeed and IsoStrut. Additionally owning multiple Treks I can say with confidence the Rear IsoSpeed (which trek only manufacturers on bikes now) definitely works and does its job wonderfully. Have fun fan boying specialized, I'll take what's faster.
I've got the Epic WC Pro. I chose the Epic over supercaliber purely based on looks. the extra cable trek has, and the IsoStrut part which looks really fat, together all look really ugly compare to the Epic WC, which has a clean cockpit, no remotes. and looks like a HT. And all trek bikes seem very overprice, and Specialized is one of the top brands that still offer some value, imho. I set the sag at 2.5mm, that's about 6.25% sag, just a touch more than the half gulp. At this setting you don't lose that much pedal efficiency, but gains a lot more compliance. (It's not an even trade. for example, if you lose 5% efficiency, you gain 15% compliance, etc, and this obviously is really good). With the setting, on a blue run that I've been testing I get to use 77.5% of it's travel. no big drops so no bottom out yet during a run. if I jump off a sidewalk I can get it to almost bottom out, but not all the way. The fork is bad. I set it up according to my weight, and it's stiff AF. I had to go 17 psi lower than my suggested pressure to get proper sag. I already have the new SID SL on order and it's even 105g lighter than the stock brain fork. Stock brake is trash. immediately switching them out for G2 with HS2 rotors. and no dropper is a pain in the ass, literally. I've seen reviews on Trek, they say it works like a traditional FS, but at 25% sag, it doesn't leave you with much travel left so I'm guessing it easily bottoms out. I tried to bottom out the Epic WC, so far no luck, came close, but not fully.
I own the WC Pro and felt the same way about the front fork. Finally got it dailed in with rebound 75% open and 105-110 psi. Works great now but it took some work.
Speak for yourself. After a few rides the difference is massive. I call hit “the schizo bike”. They are two complete different bikes when locked/unlocked. An absolute beast that takes time to master.
Headtube angles of 66/67 are just dumb for an XC bike. I bought myself a Gen 1 SuperCal with HT angle of 69 before they sold out. I’ll compromise the lesser rear travel as, again, this is an XC bike.
No dropper but fancy suspension!?!? totally unbalanced component choice. I'd rather ride a hard tail with a dropper than a FS without, even on chunky downhill.
Proprietary shocks that will inevitably blow up in under a year means that both of these are a fail. The previous S-works epic had finally done away with the proprietary shock, and now they have taken 2 steps backward ad to that headset cable routing, and you better really tip your mechanic. If you buy one of these, you best budget for a couple of extra shocks, cause if they are anything like the brain shocks, Rockshox won't service them they will have to go back to Specialized, so expect to be without it for a month.
Thank you, friends, for this comparison. Reading separate tests of these bikes you can find same conclusions, and now we have it in one test. It's very helpful! Thanks
Which bikes would you like to see us put head-to-head next?
It seems that something around the 3K seems to be the upper limit for affordability. Choose a couple of 5-6K bikes with 40% off (not difficult to find) and test them.
Hi,
Well ... Hope vs Yeti, in 160
(HB 160 vs SB 160)
That would be ❤
Spark RC vs Epic Evo
Spark world cup vs Supercaliber
Would love to see one of these converted to a drop bar vs a high end gravelbike
Nice review and decent comparison. You did draw a little contrast between the rear suspension systems but not enough in my opinion to effectively differentiate. There are still those in the peanut gallery (even in this comment section) who insist that Specialized copied Trek. It only takes a few minutes of casual research to realize they are not at all similar given that even Trek doesn't refer to the rear shock as a "shock" but a dampener. Likewise, whereas the Epic has a swingarm, the Trek has a "strut" with the dampener slider incorporated into the assembly as a single molded unit. That's why it is proprietary. Specialized still uses a conventional rear shock that pivots at the front and floats with the swingarm linkage at the rear (and is thus, hopefully, more serviceable by those who prefer to do their own maintenance).
I loved my first generation 2004 Epic, with the brain shock but would often look down at the rear and wonder if it was actually doing anything. 20 years later and sounds like these guys feel the same way. 😂
I would go with the Epic WC.
Thank you, friends, for this comparison. Reading separate tests of these bikes you can find same conclusions, and now we have it in one test. It's very helpful! Thanks!
Well done Tom & Rob love your work great review , must recommend the MBUK podcast very good indeed !
Thanks for the kind comment and recommendation! New podcast series are being planned as we speak 🤘
Hopefully those proprietary shocks will be serviceable and / or replaceable with an alternative in the near future. Otherwise in 5 years or so if either brand decides they will no longer service them the frames will end up as scrap.
This is very possible. However, I think the main goal was to make this type of bike and at the same time reduce the life of the bike.
Internally, the one on the specialized is identical to a regular sidluxe ultimate. So other than the actual body of the shock, the service items are exactly the same.
@@DoggeppI thought it was the trek?
Theres a company that makes links for using a regular shock on brain equipped Specialized frames.
@@tylerbonaguidi9183 I havent much content on the Trek. But that might be the case for that one as well. Was looking at a epic wc myself, but they were out of stock in my size/color for months, so kind of cooled off on the idea.
Very interesting test,
Helpful and nice to see,
👏👏
Weight-wise, the Trek is running a dropper, the Specialized isn’t. So at least compare eggs with eggs there…
I like that Gary Fisher over the epic wc for sure
The Sugar!!
Been on the WC since it came out and I have to say it’s by far the best bike I’ve ever owned. Only complaint I have is the sram brakes.
Wich bikes did you have previously ?
@ I’ve owned all the s works models of epic full suspension and hard tails and sworks stump jumper hardtail since 2010.
@@B-gh7md Hello, ok so I'm hesitating between the Epic 7 Sworks because the bike looks shorter and more fun on single track. Do you think the brain 2.1 is a good value ? Is it stil linteresting compared to Epic 8 or Epic WC and it is just more maintenance.
@@oceanedetotes I do like the brain for racing but probably not necessary otherwise. The World Cup is an amazing race bike. I have the epic 8 too and it’s a tad slower but much nicer to ride as a training/fun bike.
Hi, can I use size 2.40 tires with the SID SL fork? RockShox explains that you must not exceed the 60mm width.
Yes, because has tire 2.40" with 58mm width (ex. Bontrager XR3 2.40) and 2.40" with 63mm width ( ex: Michelin Wild Enduro 2.40). You need to find one 2.4 with 60mm max.
You can't give the weight win to the S-Works because of size alone, the Trek has a dropper post and should probably win the weight category
9 months late to the party but I stopped watching after that comment. And to think you have the better spec with worse brakes and a rigid post?? Ridiculous.
for me, Trek always wins ! but to be fair, each one of you has to try both bikes and then judge. because everyone is talking about his own experience with the one bike he had ! overall, if i've been gifted one of these, I wouldn't mind since these 2 bikes are flagships and very expensive !
The Trek cable system needs redesigned. A 10k bike needs better
So true..
Yeah, and them adding a fox dropper just to keep the weight lower, instead of just speccing it with an rockshox one, when the rest of the build kit is sram/rs annoys me
That's right !
@@Doggeppyeah, but the trek with the dropper weighs the same as the specialized with a solid carbon post.. it has an extra cable that the specialized doesnt have AND the trek has a remote lockout for on-the-go adjustments vs having to get off the spec. And manually adjust things.
Either way, I think they both could use some finer details to make them better. The one piece bar and stem combos gotta go. I have one on my procaliber and they are too stiff and I cant adjust anything about them.
Specialized needs to work on that brain damper, it does not provide a true stiff ride up front like an actual locked out fork and still has give when riding on gravel roads. Also, their internal cable routing through the headset needs to be obiterated off the face of the planet. I cannot stand the look or the hassle of dealing with headseat routed cables 🤮
1:36 rusty chain!? i choose the SC because of the easy set of the backsuspension, higher crank, and not SWorks because they steel the design from Trek. For me the SC gen 1 more then the gen 2 because 60mm and 100mm is more then enough for me. What are the prices?
You guys got me sold. I'm stick with my Chisel FS. LOL
Trek has a dropper post! Trek clear winner in terms of weight!!!
Hmm, so both cost more or same and weight same as 100-120 mm travel fullys... Sowhere is advantage vs. Epic fully? Only less maintenance (Brain)?
I had a top spec trek caliber for a year and a month ago I took the s works wc epic for a ride, the epic is so much better!
The trek is for sale and the epic is on order
That was the first gen. Totally diff bike.
@@mister_ray more reason too move on then
Qualquer uma das duas bikes são incríveis!
I do work at a Trek store so yes I am a little biased. However, recently Specialized has been shamelessly copying Trek. On the new Diverge "Future Shock" they just made a less reliable, heavier, and uglier IsoSpeed. And with this integrated shock on the Specialized Epic WC they followed the integrated shock design as Treks IsoStrut , while just making it heavier and less capable due to its shorter travel, lack of dropper post yet still having slacker head tube angle. On top of all that the Specialized has once again a made a less reliable and servicable rear shock. And if it means anything even the Specialized Factory Team wont even be riding on the Epic World Cup this year, a bike CALLED the "World Cup"
Well darn I guess Trek was the first to invent compliance in the front it guess no one better try and make a better version of it….or one that actually works. The super caliber is heavier than the WC and less travel, sorry you got it backwards
@evanring2021 Supercaliber Gen 2 has 80mm rear travel vs Specialized 75mm. I was incorrect about the frame weight however the factory built top spec Supercaliber is far more capable than the S Works Epic WC while being nearly the same weight, with only a couple hundred grams difference. And I'm not saying other companies can't innovate and adapt on whatever Trek creates, I'm just saying specialized simply made a worse version of IsoSpeed and IsoStrut. Additionally owning multiple Treks I can say with confidence the Rear IsoSpeed (which trek only manufacturers on bikes now) definitely works and does its job wonderfully. Have fun fan boying specialized, I'll take what's faster.
TREK ❤SuperCaliber is so much better than ESP Wc 🚽
Jolanda rides it, so Trek!
Cable tourism on the Specialized completely rules it out for me.
Orbea Oiz is the clear winner😂
A friend owns the trek what a nightmare to service that
shock
oh really, why ?
Sparkkkkkk
I've got the Epic WC Pro. I chose the Epic over supercaliber purely based on looks. the extra cable trek has, and the IsoStrut part which looks really fat, together all look really ugly compare to the Epic WC, which has a clean cockpit, no remotes. and looks like a HT. And all trek bikes seem very overprice, and Specialized is one of the top brands that still offer some value, imho.
I set the sag at 2.5mm, that's about 6.25% sag, just a touch more than the half gulp. At this setting you don't lose that much pedal efficiency, but gains a lot more compliance. (It's not an even trade. for example, if you lose 5% efficiency, you gain 15% compliance, etc, and this obviously is really good). With the setting, on a blue run that I've been testing I get to use 77.5% of it's travel. no big drops so no bottom out yet during a run. if I jump off a sidewalk I can get it to almost bottom out, but not all the way.
The fork is bad. I set it up according to my weight, and it's stiff AF. I had to go 17 psi lower than my suggested pressure to get proper sag. I already have the new SID SL on order and it's even 105g lighter than the stock brain fork.
Stock brake is trash. immediately switching them out for G2 with HS2 rotors. and no dropper is a pain in the ass, literally.
I've seen reviews on Trek, they say it works like a traditional FS, but at 25% sag, it doesn't leave you with much travel left so I'm guessing it easily bottoms out. I tried to bottom out the Epic WC, so far no luck, came close, but not fully.
I own the WC Pro and felt the same way about the front fork. Finally got it dailed in with rebound 75% open and 105-110 psi. Works great now but it took some work.
Me gustan las 2 !!!!!
What a shame that an sworks has no Dropper at that pricepoint!
But it does have a standard power meter.
Even better. You can throw on the one you like. And you have a spare rigid for flatter courses
You forgot that one is an original and the other is a knockoff.
Crazy how the knockoff is winning more races 🤔😂
Both over priced and so over rated. Makes no difference to ppl. Not worth the money.
Speak for yourself. After a few rides the difference is massive. I call hit “the schizo bike”. They are two complete different bikes when locked/unlocked. An absolute beast that takes time to master.
Headtube angles of 66/67 are just dumb for an XC bike.
I bought myself a Gen 1 SuperCal with HT angle of 69 before they sold out. I’ll compromise the lesser rear travel as, again, this is an XC bike.
Less for more!
I'd go Giant Anthem
Since when was 2.2 skinny for a race bike? Who in their right mind races XC on 2.4's?
Nino Schurter, Maxis 2.4
To be fair Nino could race on a fat bike and still win.
@@jpm408 😂🤣
Actually Trek wins on weight. It has a dropper!
It's called the World Cup for a reason....
Trek have rear triangle and frames cracking.
Mine cracked after 8 months.
When is Trek and/or Specialized going to make gravel bikes with this suspension platform?
4grand bikes all day
Going on World Cup results, then the Specialized is superior.......🤪
You got to use the same tires on both bikes otherwise this test is pointless.
Twist of a wrist is easy when you are doing blabla bla but not at the race pace. So epic wins.
No dropper but fancy suspension!?!? totally unbalanced component choice. I'd rather ride a hard tail with a dropper than a FS without, even on chunky downhill.
XC is definitely going to grow again. All those gravel bikes are running out of talent fast and owners are realising!
Bigger question is when is the bike industry going to put their bong down and start putting 2X back on XC bikes....
Proprietary shocks that will inevitably blow up in under a year means that both of these are a fail. The previous S-works epic had finally done away with the proprietary shock, and now they have taken 2 steps backward ad to that headset cable routing, and you better really tip your mechanic. If you buy one of these, you best budget for a couple of extra shocks, cause if they are anything like the brain shocks, Rockshox won't service them they will have to go back to Specialized, so expect to be without it for a month.
The rockshox on the specialized uses the exact same service parts as a regular sidluxe ultimate. So any bike shop will be able to service it.
Cycling RUclips and specifically MTB RUclips is in dire straights. This isn't good content.
If they’re not electric, they’re BORING
Just say you can’t pedal as hard as you could before sweetie
Electrics are boring compared to ICE power.
I prefer Specialized.
not a fan of trek
I’ll buy a ktm motorbike instead thanks .
Thank you, friends, for this comparison. Reading separate tests of these bikes you can find same conclusions, and now we have it in one test. It's very helpful! Thanks