Some brazillian tips: The ''bobinho'' is a well known kid's game... a bunch of kids in a circle formation, one kid in the center of this circle, and the objective is to pass the ball as much as you can, 1-2 touches in the ball max... while the kid in the center tries to steal the ball, intercept the pass, he is the bobinho, it's a role in the game. ''Silly'' cuz he is always running to try steal the ball, and the others will pass the ball to make him look silly trying. The tabela, actually doesn't translates to table... tabela is a word in portuguese that can refer to a chat, a table (like excel)... but have other meanings. In this case, tabela refers to the basketball hoop (the square part), for the same reason as what happens when you throw a ball at it... if u shoot a ball to a tabela, it will hit the tabela and come back at you... so 1-2's in brazil can be refered as a TABELA, cuz i wanna pass the ball to you, and receive it up front, just like passing the ball to a wall, a tabela, a basketball hoop
I'm Brazilian, Diniz's art performance was at audax in 2017, a team equivalent to the 3rd division. This team played against the best teams in the 1st division and put them on the spot, it was something never seen here. They were runners-up, but beautiful football.
I saw them in the Paulista final versus Santos. Their football made me take notice of Diniz's style of coaching. He's had a rocky road, but I am so glad the trophies are coming now.
Really great content, Dave. If you guys wanna see Diniz in his beginning as a coach where their team was more unstructured than that, search for his Audax Osasco team (it was crazy). About some comments here: Just because he doesn't speaks English or likes to work in a friendly stable environment, doesn't mean at all that he's (or will be) a flop as you guys are insinuating. Something that angers me is when Europeans say something like "he'll have to prove himself in Europe" as if nothing but Europe was valid or worthy. Guys, just look at the history and you'll see that lots of football coaches didn't need to pass through Europe to win a World Cup or a World Clubs Cup and some examples are: São Paulo x Barcelona (yes, that cruyf barça) and São Paulo x Milan (two following years), most recent we had São Paulo x Liverpool, Internacional x Barcelona, Corinthians x Chelsea. (And I can be missing more games here) My only point is that sometimes I see some arrogance coming from you and I really disrespect it
Foda-se. Vez ou outra eles sao duramente lembrados da realidade (rude awakening), como nos intercontinentais que perdem ou nas copas do mjndo que perdem.
100% brother. i see this constantly from content produced by european's for a mainly european viewers. Not everything needs to be a reaction to europe. and i like the examples you give with sao paulo. there is no diniz without tele santana & coutinho
It's funny because on the Final's first goal we could see the principles of "tabela" and "yo-yo" and on the second one the "escadinha", even though it was a lob pass to the third man, who layed it off for Kennedy after his spin.
Diniz já faz isso há MUITOS ANOS, creio que desde 2015, mas agora tá conseguindo encaixar melhor essa tática. Tem um outro canal de futebol (de um europeu) dizendo desconfiar que o técnico do Malmo começou a se inspirar na forma como o Fluminense jogava (infelizmente não lembro o nome do canal, mas se achar mando aqui).
@@gilbertborges8993 Sim eu sei, eu sou portugues mas ja acompanho o futebol brasileiro ha uns anos e sim eu sei, ja via o Diniz aplicar isso na altura, comecei a prestar mais atencao no diniz na altura do sao paulo e ja na altura gostava muito. Eu sei qual e o canal que falas, é o the purist football, tambem acompanho esse canal xD
Worth mentioning Malmo are currently employing the same but not as extreme style of play and are fighting for the Swedish title Edit: They won the league on the final day
Mr. Diniz began to be successful with his innovative tactical system when he managed to have a qualified team in his hands for almost 2 years playing together. The Fluminense Football Club will surprise the world on December 18th. The show is just beginning. The new era of football.
The upside: when things work out the team cuts through the opponents defence like a hot knife through butter and it is a beautiful thing to behold. The downside: when things don't work well the team often falls apart catastrophically.
You r right. The worst downside of relationism is when the gengen pressing defensive style work against it, take the control of the ball and quickily get it to the side where there is no players. Basically, the players whom where all at one side of the pitch needs to run faster then a cheetah to try to stop the counter attack. If well played, deffending from relationism is not too complicated but laborious, you need to make the side of the pitch even more crownded with the defensive players, the problem of some teams is that they seems to get tired of even get lazy to deffend, because it would be way more easy if they just keep their position.
@@Player-vk1gl Yeah, I observed that too. The gengen pressing style is effective against it, but the team that does it gets tired really quickly. Fluminense adversaries are often exhausthed in the second half of the match.
I doubt that the system has a general problem with Gegenpressing. If technical gifted and clear minded players overload the ball side then you need at least the same number of players on the ball side. This means that on the far there is normally a man to man situation in a 2vs2 or 3vs3 situation. The relationist team is also trying to use this with fast switches. If they succeesfuly switch they are normally closer to the goal then the Gegenpressing team would be after winning the ball.
@@andremuller8546 Relationism has suffered a major setback this year. After a series of catastrophic losses, resulting in Fluminense only scoring 7 points in 14 rounds, Fernando Diniz was sacked and the new coach is trying to implement basic structure back again... To escape relegation, Fluminense has to score at least 38 points in the remaining 23 rounds (55% average). Not too impressive, but Fluminense only got 10% average in the first 14 rounds...
Europeans use to think that the positional play is more successful than relationism because it took over Europe and it proved to be successful. But that has little to do with the play style, and more with the value of the european football market. That's where the big money is. That's where they can afford the best players. There's no competition between brazilian teams and Premier League teams if they're interested in the same player, neither for transfers, nor for salaries. As an example, Marcelo was "taken" from Fluminense very young, won everything with Real Madrid, and now returned to Fluminense as a much older player that had no space in Real Madrid anymore. And he still won Libertadores da América. Best players from South America end up making a career in Europe just like him, where they play positional play their whole lives. Functional and positional plays are just two different styles, and both can be effective in an environment of (approximately) equal economic conditions. But we know which one is more enjoyable to watch. It's far better to watch a more "artistic" play style.
There are other factors besides the money. For example, they rarely play in 30 Celsius or higher, their grass is cut lower, and it's watered before the game so the ball runs faster and the movement is easier. And on top of it all, you're playing once every 3 or 4 days, the schedule is mental. If you try to play at European pace in Brazil, you won't last long.
@@rodrigolj Wait, did you mean that in Euroupe you play more often than you do in Brazil? If that’s the case, then you couldn’t be more wrong. The minimum number of matches brazilian clubs have is about the maximum number of matches that european clubs have per season. The average of brazilian clubs matches per season is by far the greatest in the world, specially due to the state championships, which add an average of about 16 more matches than the world’s average. And that’s terrible. That’s subject of a lot of controversy here in Brazil, since although those state championships had their historical relevancy, nowadays they just fill up the schedule with less appealing matches, in bad pitches, against minor clubs. A lot of brazilians think those state championships should be extinguished, or at least dialed down to about two matches for each of the bigger clubs. European players wouldn’t last long at the brazilian pace.
@@rafaelmarangoni "European players wouldn’t last long at the brazilian pace." The average premier league match is played at an intensity and pace most Brazilian players would baulk at
@@hegeliandianetik2009 I’m sure you think that. But there are a lot of brazilian players in Premier League. There’s not a single brit playing here in Brazil.
Truth is, I've been in awe of this style for years, just never knew it was called Relationism. I also believe that asides the aforementioned teams and coaches named in this video, most Spanish sides have a functional approach in unique ways. A big s/o to you for mentioning them though. I believe it's the future and don't care so much about the cons, because with time and different implementation by more disciples of this school of thought, a Relationist defensive approach can be made to adapt to the times.
I consider Diniz the one coach who brought back the joy of watching my football team (São Paulo) in a lot of years of marasm and monotony. He started one very good work making the players believe they could REALY be champions. Things didnt ended very well, but the team's performance and joy brought back the fans to the stadium, and at this point, they finally won one big tournament again after one decade! That's was without Diniz, but we can clearly see his work on these steps. His most powerfull ability is about the human behavior, football creativity and regaining of self-confidence. And that's exactly what Brazil's team is needing right now.
Fernando Diniz often says that to have a good time, you first have to have a good friendship between the players. And that players, before being athletes, are human beings like the rest of us. Furthermore, he encourages his players to play spontaneously and happily and never be afraid to take risks even if it results in a big mistake. Another important point in Fluminense is that everyone attacks and everyone defends, like a united family. We Fluminense fans, like Fernando Diniz, consider our Club, our players and our fans as a big family. Another thing Diniz always says is that for him, football is much more art than science, and if he plays in a more beautiful and supportive way, he has a better chance of winning. Some curiosities: Fernando Diniz is a former player, but graduated in psychology, as is Fluminense's football director (Paulo Angioni), who is also a psychologist. This is not conscience, as Fluminense's philosophy is to prioritize good human relations, and from that, build a beautiful history in football. It's been like this for 121 years, when Oscar Cox, an English-Brazilian founded the Fluminense Football Club.
Diniz managed my club, São Paulo, a couple of years ago. When his game style worked, it was fun and exciting, but when it didn't (and it happened a lot back then) it was always disastrous and humiliating. We lost a championship after getting a 12 point lead, after he had a heated argument with one of the players live while the game went on. Although I like him, overall, having your team managed by him can be an emotional rollercoaster.
Diniz is the real deal. if we have the chance to play M. City in the world cup it will be a very good game to say the least We play like brazilian football used to be
Hello, I'm from Brazil, I'm a fan of Corinthians, the last world champion in 2012. I've played football since I was a child and started playing futsal and street football. This is a very strong characteristic in almost the majority of Brazilian players. In narrow streets, the player needs to think very quickly to reach the opponent's goal, and this happens with quick touches and dribbles. The team varies from 2 to 3 players and usually without a goalkeeper. In futsal, the logic is similar, lots of quick touches and dribbles. The Brazilian game of 'toco e me voy', 'escadinha' and other tactics have existed in all street games, futsal, beach football, and 'várzea' (amateur football) in Brazil for a long time. It's instinctive. It's our story!
If you watch at Wenger’s Arsenal in the mid 2010s you notice how their attacks were free-flowing with 5-6 men involved near each other and a lot of “toco y me voy” moments. Diniz however proposed this more extremely
This is if trickery was a set of football tactics. It's clever and very different. I like it. It makes sense that its origin is South America. Their football experience is definitely different from Europe is a lot of ways.
I'm a Fluminense fan and I agree with you. I think south American players are naturally blessed with great talents, but European players have more tactical awareness. This Diniz style is a way to put some tactics on players that usually don't care much about it, because we like the chaos.
its nice that brazilian football its finally getting to europe, not only the players (but our coaches are still blocked by uefa tho, our coach degrees are not accepted there), important to say that diniz of course are the main guy and most extreme on functional, but theres others here, Renato Gaucho for exemple (suarez gremio's coach).
I've seen many cover Relationism, but Statman Dave would surely explain it like no other, I was sure of it, and clicked as soon as I saw it, well, no surprises here, great explanation mate, I really love your channel, cheers.
It makes sense why Klopp wants Andre as a 6, if you watch Liverpool this season its very chaotic it’s like the frontline the two 8’s and fullbacks don’t have a position they’re just all over the pitch.
7:08 TABELA does not translate to "TABLE" at all. ( "TABLE" is "MESA" in Portuguese. ) I give that the words TABELA and TABLE seem quite similar, but that is all they have in common. TABELA (in football) means ( the act of passing the ball and receiving it back in order to progress without risking a dribble ) The famous ONE - TWO ( Um, Dois ) If you had a wall on the side, and you were to use it in order to go pass your defender, by making the ball rebound off of it and allowing you to catch the ball in front of your defender, you would be making a " TABELA " with the wall.
the "bobinho circle" is actually a street game in brazil, where one person stays in the center of a circle made by many people and needs to take the ball by intercepting passes or defending other players 1v1. this is another aspect of diniz's game that's reminescent of street football here in brazil
Came here thinking maybe its the antidote to Pep Ball. But got to that magic circle thing and thought about Macguire, MacT, Victor, Bruno and Dalot trying to do that. Laughed out loud to myself and decided to make dinner. Strangely Anthony would probably be good at it, he had to be good at something after all, besides slapping women. Though this Diniz chap is probably too sensible to move, likes to work in a friendly stable environment, can't speak English and dislikes rain anyway............
Why were they donkeys? No offense intended but I know about as much as about Brazilian football as my dad knows about cryptocurrency. Besides the real Ronaldo of course, coz he was magic and did it in Europe too.@@augustomourao2486
Hello! Well, awsome video! Diniz is the future! And, about your pronounce with the "Fluminense" word , you have to talk like if saying these separated word in inglish : Flu + Me + Nancy :-)
A great moment that helps a lot to understand Diniz and his tatics is Marcelo's goal vs Flamengo (and what a goal!!). He scores from the right wing despites being a left back.
The only thing I would like to correct is the definition of tabela. “Tabela” isn’t the base player, but the the action of exchanging quick passes between players while moving. It is, essentially, closely related to “toco y me voy” - tabela is the most common term in Brazil, while toco Y me voy is the Argentinian way of saying it. A “1-2” is a type of tabela, for instance.
The translation for "corta-luz" is also wrong. Literally it means "light cutter" or "cutting out the light". Semantically it means "bait and switch". It happens when a player PRETENDS to receive the ball, but actually lets it through without even touching it, so that another player behind himself can receive the pass. The thing with this play is that it is not devised by the player making the pass, but by the player who is about to receive, but lets the ball through. It can only happen, though, if everyone knows everyone else's positions. Either that or a well-trained set of subtle signals.
4:47 "CIRCULO DO BOBO" is actually called ( "BOBINHO" = litterally "Little Silly" ) But in English if I am not mistaken is called "PIGGY IN THE MIDDLE".
There is nothing new about the "toco y me voy" and "tabela" (also called "pared" {wall}). We have been using it for decades here in Latin America. The difference is that some players and squads can perform it to perfection and other simply can't.
Kkkk a pronúncia de Tabela foi minha preferida , geralmente colocar acento é difícil para eles, mas nunca vi inserirem um onde não tem, achei fofissimo
@1.52 but if the team is quick in transition and passes quickly it may cause some issues mainly the liverpool style of Gegen pressing by Klopp . But if the defense is sharp and strong it's fun to watch these 2 systems go against each other
As a Brazilian, I just didn't undertand;... Why the mix of Portuguese and Spanish? 😁 Examples: "Juego de posición" (Spanish), in Portuguese it would be "jogo de posição". "Jogo funcional (Portuguese), in Spanish it would be "juego funcional". "Toco y me voy" (Spanish), in Portuguese ir would be "toco e saio". "Escadinhas" (Portuguese) in Spanish it would be "escalerasitas" (a least as a literal transation, I guess it would have a completly different word).
Essas expressões em espanhol que ele utilizou no vídeo são a forma como essas jogadas são conhecidas na Europa. As que ele disse em português são as "novidades" apresentadas pelo Diniz (na verdade, são jogadas muito comuns no Brasil).
Nice. The correct pronounce is Tabéla, the tonic is be taBEla. Welcome to the future. Fluminense is the past, present and future of Football. Thanks to Oscar Cox, our founder in 1902
I think a better translation for better understanding of the Silly Circle would be The Little Fool's Circle because the circle is making the guy in the middle of the circle a fool Bobo means fool, bobinho is a diminutive to bobo like little fool "The Little Fool's Circle" would be the full translation
Positional game is the inteligent path that Europeans followed to use what they have historicaly. Strong, tall, athletic players. For me the relationism is the inteligent path for south american teams to be competitive with what they have! Sometimes very talented players but who doesnt match european teams phisical exigences. See Ganso, Arrascaeta, De La Cruz, and a lot other incredibly talented players who would not fit european top teams... So, European positional squads uses players that has the best atributes to play a specific role... And south american squads with talented but sometimes older or not phisicaly incredible players (short, skiny), found another way to use their talent without missing the lack of phisical attributes. Does it make sense or Im crazy?!
In time: In the brazilian street football tradition, "Bobinho" ( portuguese for "the little silly") means the player wich tries to get the ball from the wheel players, with no success.
10:36 VERY FALSE !!! The Dutch didn't invent SQUAT. They simply copied South American Football, namely Brazil. Even the so called "Cruyff Turn" has also been used way before Cruyff. Pelé used it a lot, and he was far from being the first in Brazilian football to do so. Louis Van Gal has always had problems with Brazilian players because he doesn't understand TOTAL FOOTBALL. He wanted players like RIVALDO or GIOVANNI to stay in one particular place the whole game. That goes against Brazilian football culture and strength. Europeans and Americans have this tendency of stealing something from another country and calling their own. That is very wrong!
I'm Brazilian, Fluminense looks like a 40's club, aging players, Fluminense is not a favorite, but they're going to gain experience, they're going without any pressure, but I believe it will take a bit of work
Unhum o negócio é alguém que consiga fazer isso ou acha que em todo jogo alguém não tem essa função? O cano já teve 2 marcando ele em jogos e ele msm assim ainda fazer 2 gols
We say Flu-me-nen-see not Flu-me-nee-z. Also, nobody calls it "O Círculo Bobo". Its called "Bobo" or "Rodinha de Bobo", which means, in sequence, "Silly" and "Silly circle/wheel" (as you've put it in the video). Bobo or "Silly" are the players inside the ball that have to keep running after the ball to intercept it when its being passed inside the circle. Its very widespread here in Brazil from kids to professional clubs. In addition, "toco y me voy" its in Spanish and we don't use this term here. We just call it "Tabela" (its essentially the same thing, someone passses and moves forward to receive the ball, thus moving past the opponent)
Also, the biggest weakness of Diniz's tactic is counterattacks, especially when the opponents are able to recover the ball on their pitch. Since his style of play requires overloads, when he loses the ball his team will be completely out of shape, with only the DMs and CBs (which are not the fastest) to counter any moves. So, usually, either 1) his players have to press very quickly to get the ball back, 2) quickly get into defensive shape, 3) run like hell after their opponents if they manage to retain the ball or 4) do a tactical foul. Finally, gegenpress is not the most troublesome thing for Fluminense. Diniz specifically trains the team to play out from defence, even using the GK. When Fluminense loses the ball in their own field, more often than not is due to a mistake (bad pass, tripping, slipping, etc) rather than the result of a successful press
Seems that the system is not working with the Brazilian national team. They have lost two consecutive games, which had never happened in tournaments for classification to the world cup, and they lost to Colombia for the first time in the history of the same clasfication.
Because they aren't well trained in that style of play. I saw the games and most of the team was a mess playing it. They need smart midfielders to make it work and only Andre knew how to play that style (because he's from Fluminense duh). The other 2 were doing the dumbest plays on the pitch
@@natirasohumana Update : now Brazil has lost 3 consecutive games, and is below Venezuela in the classification standings, something never seen before.
too chaotic imo. Best used on the wide areas only where its easier to counter press when there is a turnover. In the middle, it would be dangerous as it would leave the wide back open for the counterattacking team to exploit unless less players used to make the "circle". But that just basically falls back to positional style tactics. I remember this relational style when Carrick took over as interim manager at United but he was using less players(3-4 players) to play intricate football in midfield then Bruno spraying a long ball wide. It was nice to watch and at that time i was hoping carrick would become the permanent manager but he decided not to.
That's why Fluminense rarely do this through the middle. Their game is based on side tilts. The attack progresses through the wide corridor. And it's actually hard to counter because the ball is always convered and every pass in a very small and very crowded space so it's hard to progress the game fast enough to catch them off guard.
It s not soó successful as yet but IS on a expectably good way to. What we see is his defender players packing together in séries of passes t discourage opponents. On the attack his most promising tactic was four or more players spinning on a forward wing and TWO of them rapid and with hundreds of Endless exchange passing to one another in improvised manners as well. In a given moment a big space Will break open for a coming Striker uptop. And It often breaks open simply bcs the defenders lost their long trained patience in blocking them..
I think that we should stop differentiate between tactics on a scale and use a cross diagram instead. There isn't just positional play or relativism but many different tactical concepts between. With wide plus narrow formations on the x-axis and rigid plus fluid positional play on the y-axis it's easier to exactly show how a team is playing. Man City is playing very wide and rigid while and Fluminense is playing a fluid narrow style. But Brighton? They're playing wider but not extremely wide and are more fluid than Man City but not as fluid like Fluminense.
The player value is low is not a reflection of their quality… They just had too many old players like Ganso, Marcelo, German Cano, Keno, Felipe Melo… these players aren’t worth much because of their age
Fluminense made Flamengo "roda de bobinho" in the final of the Campeonato Carioca, in 2022 and 2023. Flamengo players like fools, on the field 😅👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Diniz sounds like Ancelotti. I don't think Ten Hag's system approach has worked with United so I would like to see Diniz at United. He could get a tune out of Antony.
In the premier league where the competition is a lot higher I would think that once the ball is won the opposition would get a lot of joy on the counter or over the defence
Depends how quickly they are able to evade the press near the touchline. Dave also hadn’t mentioned the defensive diagonal which is often the full back on the other side in position to stop the counter
Appreciate the work but you scout all that far to into Brazilian football just to look under your doorstep that Liverpool play the exact way through Trent Mo and now Dom, same for robbo Diaz and gravenberch with the 9 following across the lines, with robbo and Trent hybrid sometime in central and mostly in attacking possession out wide but good work bro keep the vids up we love em 👍
Some brazillian tips:
The ''bobinho'' is a well known kid's game... a bunch of kids in a circle formation, one kid in the center of this circle, and the objective is to pass the ball as much as you can, 1-2 touches in the ball max... while the kid in the center tries to steal the ball, intercept the pass, he is the bobinho, it's a role in the game. ''Silly'' cuz he is always running to try steal the ball, and the others will pass the ball to make him look silly trying.
The tabela, actually doesn't translates to table... tabela is a word in portuguese that can refer to a chat, a table (like excel)... but have other meanings. In this case, tabela refers to the basketball hoop (the square part), for the same reason as what happens when you throw a ball at it... if u shoot a ball to a tabela, it will hit the tabela and come back at you... so 1-2's in brazil can be refered as a TABELA, cuz i wanna pass the ball to you, and receive it up front, just like passing the ball to a wall, a tabela, a basketball hoop
Just adding that there's an actual cognate of "table" in Portuguese. It's "tábula".
we also call the bobinho peruzinho (little turkey) in my land. i know that because i usually was it back in school lol
I thought, this being played in different parts of the world because its common in Malaysia & Singapore
Explicou bem pra cacete hahahaha duvido gringo nao entender
só falar rondo porra, que enrolação da porra.
I'm Brazilian, Diniz's art performance was at audax in 2017, a team equivalent to the 3rd division. This team played against the best teams in the 1st division and put them on the spot, it was something never seen here. They were runners-up, but beautiful football.
It was in 2016, and the team was Osasco Audax
2016
I saw them in the Paulista final versus Santos. Their football made me take notice of Diniz's style of coaching. He's had a rocky road, but I am so glad the trophies are coming now.
Really great content, Dave.
If you guys wanna see Diniz in his beginning as a coach where their team was more unstructured than that, search for his Audax Osasco team (it was crazy).
About some comments here: Just because he doesn't speaks English or likes to work in a friendly stable environment, doesn't mean at all that he's (or will be) a flop as you guys are insinuating. Something that angers me is when Europeans say something like "he'll have to prove himself in Europe" as if nothing but Europe was valid or worthy.
Guys, just look at the history and you'll see that lots of football coaches didn't need to pass through Europe to win a World Cup or a World Clubs Cup and some examples are: São Paulo x Barcelona (yes, that cruyf barça) and São Paulo x Milan (two following years), most recent we had São Paulo x Liverpool, Internacional x Barcelona, Corinthians x Chelsea. (And I can be missing more games here)
My only point is that sometimes I see some arrogance coming from you and I really disrespect it
Exato, Caio.
well said
Foda-se. Vez ou outra eles sao duramente lembrados da realidade (rude awakening), como nos intercontinentais que perdem ou nas copas do mjndo que perdem.
Brasil se tornou irrelevante no futebol po.. a gente não ganha Copa do Mundo ou Mundial há anos, eles não tão errados não
100% brother. i see this constantly from content produced by european's for a mainly european viewers. Not everything needs to be a reaction to europe.
and i like the examples you give with sao paulo. there is no diniz without tele santana & coutinho
It's funny because on the Final's first goal we could see the principles of "tabela" and "yo-yo" and on the second one the "escadinha", even though it was a lob pass to the third man, who layed it off for Kennedy after his spin.
Thanks for covering South American football. The Brazilian league is a gem.
Thanks for the video, cheering for Fluminense x Manchester City at the world's with all my soul
Ten Hag´s Ajax in 2018/19 was a relationist side too, and a great example of another Relationist side in Europe is Henrik Rydström´s Malmo
Diniz já faz isso há MUITOS ANOS, creio que desde 2015, mas agora tá conseguindo encaixar melhor essa tática. Tem um outro canal de futebol (de um europeu) dizendo desconfiar que o técnico do Malmo começou a se inspirar na forma como o Fluminense jogava (infelizmente não lembro o nome do canal, mas se achar mando aqui).
@@gilbertborges8993 Sim eu sei, eu sou portugues mas ja acompanho o futebol brasileiro ha uns anos e sim eu sei, ja via o Diniz aplicar isso na altura, comecei a prestar mais atencao no diniz na altura do sao paulo e ja na altura gostava muito. Eu sei qual e o canal que falas, é o the purist football, tambem acompanho esse canal xD
Worth mentioning Malmo are currently employing the same but not as extreme style of play and are fighting for the Swedish title
Edit: They won the league on the final day
Mr. Diniz began to be successful with his innovative tactical system when he managed to have a qualified team in his hands for almost 2 years playing together. The Fluminense Football Club will surprise the world on December 18th. The show is just beginning. The new era of football.
The upside: when things work out the team cuts through the opponents defence like a hot knife through butter and it is a beautiful thing to behold.
The downside: when things don't work well the team often falls apart catastrophically.
You r right. The worst downside of relationism is when the gengen pressing defensive style work against it, take the control of the ball and quickily get it to the side where there is no players. Basically, the players whom where all at one side of the pitch needs to run faster then a cheetah to try to stop the counter attack. If well played, deffending from relationism is not too complicated but laborious, you need to make the side of the pitch even more crownded with the defensive players, the problem of some teams is that they seems to get tired of even get lazy to deffend, because it would be way more easy if they just keep their position.
@@Player-vk1gl Yeah, I observed that too. The gengen pressing style is effective against it, but the team that does it gets tired really quickly. Fluminense adversaries are often exhausthed in the second half of the match.
@@SonicLion2 im a fluminense supporter, and I can tell you are right.
I doubt that the system has a general problem with Gegenpressing. If technical gifted and clear minded players overload the ball side then you need at least the same number of players on the ball side. This means that on the far there is normally a man to man situation in a 2vs2 or 3vs3 situation. The relationist team is also trying to use this with fast switches. If they succeesfuly switch they are normally closer to the goal then the Gegenpressing team would be after winning the ball.
@@andremuller8546 Relationism has suffered a major setback this year. After a series of catastrophic losses, resulting in Fluminense only scoring 7 points in 14 rounds, Fernando Diniz was sacked and the new coach is trying to implement basic structure back again... To escape relegation, Fluminense has to score at least 38 points in the remaining 23 rounds (55% average). Not too impressive, but Fluminense only got 10% average in the first 14 rounds...
Just a correction: tabela means backboard, as from basketball. And that's explains the concept
Europeans use to think that the positional play is more successful than relationism because it took over Europe and it proved to be successful. But that has little to do with the play style, and more with the value of the european football market. That's where the big money is. That's where they can afford the best players. There's no competition between brazilian teams and Premier League teams if they're interested in the same player, neither for transfers, nor for salaries. As an example, Marcelo was "taken" from Fluminense very young, won everything with Real Madrid, and now returned to Fluminense as a much older player that had no space in Real Madrid anymore. And he still won Libertadores da América. Best players from South America end up making a career in Europe just like him, where they play positional play their whole lives. Functional and positional plays are just two different styles, and both can be effective in an environment of (approximately) equal economic conditions. But we know which one is more enjoyable to watch. It's far better to watch a more "artistic" play style.
There are other factors besides the money. For example, they rarely play in 30 Celsius or higher, their grass is cut lower, and it's watered before the game so the ball runs faster and the movement is easier. And on top of it all, you're playing once every 3 or 4 days, the schedule is mental. If you try to play at European pace in Brazil, you won't last long.
@@rodrigolj Wait, did you mean that in Euroupe you play more often than you do in Brazil? If that’s the case, then you couldn’t be more wrong. The minimum number of matches brazilian clubs have is about the maximum number of matches that european clubs have per season. The average of brazilian clubs matches per season is by far the greatest in the world, specially due to the state championships, which add an average of about 16 more matches than the world’s average. And that’s terrible. That’s subject of a lot of controversy here in Brazil, since although those state championships had their historical relevancy, nowadays they just fill up the schedule with less appealing matches, in bad pitches, against minor clubs. A lot of brazilians think those state championships should be extinguished, or at least dialed down to about two matches for each of the bigger clubs. European players wouldn’t last long at the brazilian pace.
@@rafaelmarangoni "European players wouldn’t last long at the brazilian pace." The average premier league match is played at an intensity and pace most Brazilian players would baulk at
@@hegeliandianetik2009 I’m sure you think that. But there are a lot of brazilian players in Premier League. There’s not a single brit playing here in Brazil.
Truth is, I've been in awe of this style for years, just never knew it was called Relationism.
I also believe that asides the aforementioned teams and coaches named in this video, most Spanish sides have a functional approach in unique ways. A big s/o to you for mentioning them though.
I believe it's the future and don't care so much about the cons, because with time and different implementation by more disciples of this school of thought, a Relationist defensive approach can be made to adapt to the times.
I consider Diniz the one coach who brought back the joy of watching my football team (São Paulo) in a lot of years of marasm and monotony.
He started one very good work making the players believe they could REALY be champions.
Things didnt ended very well, but the team's performance and joy brought back the fans to the stadium, and at this point, they finally won one big tournament again after one decade! That's was without Diniz, but we can clearly see his work on these steps.
His most powerfull ability is about the human behavior, football creativity and regaining of self-confidence. And that's exactly what Brazil's team is needing right now.
Fernando Diniz often says that to have a good time, you first have to have a good friendship between the players. And that players, before being athletes, are human beings like the rest of us. Furthermore, he encourages his players to play spontaneously and happily and never be afraid to take risks even if it results in a big mistake. Another important point in Fluminense is that everyone attacks and everyone defends, like a united family. We Fluminense fans, like Fernando Diniz, consider our Club, our players and our fans as a big family. Another thing Diniz always says is that for him, football is much more art than science, and if he plays in a more beautiful and supportive way, he has a better chance of winning.
Some curiosities: Fernando Diniz is a former player, but graduated in psychology, as is Fluminense's football director (Paulo Angioni), who is also a psychologist. This is not conscience, as Fluminense's philosophy is to prioritize good human relations, and from that, build a beautiful history in football. It's been like this for 121 years, when Oscar Cox, an English-Brazilian founded the Fluminense Football Club.
Diniz managed my club, São Paulo, a couple of years ago. When his game style worked, it was fun and exciting, but when it didn't (and it happened a lot back then) it was always disastrous and humiliating. We lost a championship after getting a 12 point lead, after he had a heated argument with one of the players live while the game went on.
Although I like him, overall, having your team managed by him can be an emotional rollercoaster.
Diniz is the real deal. if we have the chance to play M. City in the world cup it will be a very good game to say the least
We play like brazilian football used to be
Chelsea Just used it, and Liverpool play this way , so next game could be revealing
Hello, I'm from Brazil, I'm a fan of Corinthians, the last world champion in 2012. I've played football since I was a child and started playing futsal and street football. This is a very strong characteristic in almost the majority of Brazilian players. In narrow streets, the player needs to think very quickly to reach the opponent's goal, and this happens with quick touches and dribbles. The team varies from 2 to 3 players and usually without a goalkeeper. In futsal, the logic is similar, lots of quick touches and dribbles. The Brazilian game of 'toco e me voy', 'escadinha' and other tactics have existed in all street games, futsal, beach football, and 'várzea' (amateur football) in Brazil for a long time. It's instinctive. It's our story!
If you watch at Wenger’s Arsenal in the mid 2010s you notice how their attacks were free-flowing with 5-6 men involved near each other and a lot of “toco y me voy” moments. Diniz however proposed this more extremely
This is if trickery was a set of football tactics. It's clever and very different. I like it. It makes sense that its origin is South America. Their football experience is definitely different from Europe is a lot of ways.
I'm a Fluminense fan and I agree with you.
I think south American players are naturally blessed with great talents, but European players have more tactical awareness.
This Diniz style is a way to put some tactics on players that usually don't care much about it, because we like the chaos.
Thats not a new style either...its just how Brazil used to play in the past but in a modernized version.
its nice that brazilian football its finally getting to europe, not only the players (but our coaches are still blocked by uefa tho, our coach degrees are not accepted there), important to say that diniz of course are the main guy and most extreme on functional, but theres others here, Renato Gaucho for exemple (suarez gremio's coach).
O da Argentina é aceito? E se sim, porque?
ele acabou de explicar, so ler direito...@@maverick767
@@maverick767porque a Argentina ganhou a copa né kkkk
@@neucoarcnada aver cusao, o treinador do atlético de Madrid tá na Europa bem muito antes de Argentina pensar em ganhar copa
@@menino22 o atlético de madrid é time pequeno
I've seen many cover Relationism, but Statman Dave would surely explain it like no other, I was sure of it, and clicked as soon as I saw it, well, no surprises here, great explanation mate, I really love your channel, cheers.
It makes sense why Klopp wants Andre as a 6, if you watch Liverpool this season its very chaotic it’s like the frontline the two 8’s and fullbacks don’t have a position they’re just all over the pitch.
Wenger's Arsenal especially the 08-11 version is the most elite example of a relationist approach in European football
8:02 - The first goal of Fluminense in the Libertadores finals was that way 😏
7:08 TABELA does not translate to "TABLE" at all. ( "TABLE" is "MESA" in Portuguese. ) I give that the words TABELA and TABLE seem quite similar, but that is all they have in common.
TABELA (in football) means ( the act of passing the ball and receiving it back in order to progress without risking a dribble ) The famous ONE - TWO ( Um, Dois )
If you had a wall on the side, and you were to use it in order to go pass your defender, by making the ball rebound off of it and allowing you to catch the ball in front of your defender, you would be making a " TABELA " with the wall.
I love the way he says "Flumineize" everytime and don't even tries to apologize(and he shouldn't) EVERYTIME for spelling it wrong.
Um estilo de jogo que será testado no mundial!
Vamos tricolores!!!!!!
Really nice job. I just missed some videos showing how its done.
the "bobinho circle" is actually a street game in brazil, where one person stays in the center of a circle made by many people and needs to take the ball by intercepting passes or defending other players 1v1. this is another aspect of diniz's game that's reminescent of street football here in brazil
O que fez o fluminense ganhar foi treino e condicionamento físico. Sempre resolve no segundo tempo. Resumindo: trabalho e profissionalismo.
Came here thinking maybe its the antidote to Pep Ball. But got to that magic circle thing and thought about Macguire, MacT, Victor, Bruno and Dalot trying to do that. Laughed out loud to myself and decided to make dinner. Strangely Anthony would probably be good at it, he had to be good at something after all, besides slapping women. Though this Diniz chap is probably too sensible to move, likes to work in a friendly stable environment, can't speak English and dislikes rain anyway............
This gave me a proper chuckle 😂
Well as they say its better to laugh than cry.@@StatmanDave
One can still dream though…right?
If you took a look at the quality some of the players Diniz has at his disposal before they where with him you wouldn't have made this comment.
Why were they donkeys? No offense intended but I know about as much as about Brazilian football as my dad knows about cryptocurrency. Besides the real Ronaldo of course, coz he was magic and did it in Europe too.@@augustomourao2486
This is how you say it: “Flew me Nancy” think these words and voilà
Fluminense!!! ❤❤❤ Great video!
Hello! Well, awsome video! Diniz is the future! And, about your pronounce with the "Fluminense" word , you have to talk like if saying these separated word in inglish : Flu + Me + Nancy :-)
Excellent video and I also find Fernando Diniz fascinating. Don't worry about the Portuguese pronunciation. In time you can learn that too.
Really great content, Dave.
7:55 Esse exemplo é igual o primeiro gol do fluminense
A great moment that helps a lot to understand Diniz and his tatics is Marcelo's goal vs Flamengo (and what a goal!!). He scores from the right wing despites being a left back.
Great video!
Fantastic video👍🏾🔥🔥 I missed this format
The only thing I would like to correct is the definition of tabela.
“Tabela” isn’t the base player, but the the action of exchanging quick passes between players while moving.
It is, essentially, closely related to “toco y me voy” - tabela is the most common term in Brazil, while toco Y me voy is the Argentinian way of saying it.
A “1-2” is a type of tabela, for instance.
"Tabela" isn't table. The concept is more like the board (really where the net is) of basketball.
The translation for "corta-luz" is also wrong. Literally it means "light cutter" or "cutting out the light". Semantically it means "bait and switch". It happens when a player PRETENDS to receive the ball, but actually lets it through without even touching it, so that another player behind himself can receive the pass.
The thing with this play is that it is not devised by the player making the pass, but by the player who is about to receive, but lets the ball through.
It can only happen, though, if everyone knows everyone else's positions. Either that or a well-trained set of subtle signals.
@@jggouveaYup...in english thats called a "dummy"
4:47 "CIRCULO DO BOBO" is actually called ( "BOBINHO" = litterally "Little Silly" ) But in English if I am not mistaken is called "PIGGY IN THE MIDDLE".
*ta-BE-la:* the uppercase syllable is the tone syllable.
There is nothing new about the "toco y me voy" and "tabela" (also called "pared" {wall}). We have been using it for decades here in Latin America. The difference is that some players and squads can perform it to perfection and other simply can't.
Super, Diniz!
Kkkk a pronúncia de Tabela foi minha preferida , geralmente colocar acento é difícil para eles, mas nunca vi inserirem um onde não tem, achei fofissimo
Tabela is just 1-2 passing.
Like literally.
1-2 toca e passa
@1.52 but if the team is quick in transition and passes quickly it may cause some issues mainly the liverpool style of Gegen pressing by Klopp . But if the defense is sharp and strong it's fun to watch these 2 systems go against each other
As a Brazilian, I just didn't undertand;... Why the mix of Portuguese and Spanish? 😁
Examples:
"Juego de posición" (Spanish), in Portuguese it would be "jogo de posição".
"Jogo funcional (Portuguese), in Spanish it would be "juego funcional".
"Toco y me voy" (Spanish), in Portuguese ir would be "toco e saio".
"Escadinhas" (Portuguese) in Spanish it would be "escalerasitas" (a least as a literal transation, I guess it would have a completly different word).
Essas expressões em espanhol que ele utilizou no vídeo são a forma como essas jogadas são conhecidas na Europa.
As que ele disse em português são as "novidades" apresentadas pelo Diniz (na verdade, são jogadas muito comuns no Brasil).
Nice. The correct pronounce is Tabéla, the tonic is be taBEla. Welcome to the future. Fluminense is the past, present and future of Football. Thanks to Oscar Cox, our founder in 1902
Football: created in England and improved in Laranjeiras.
Pode refazer que seu video ja envelheceu. Diniz é campeão da América
I think a better translation for better understanding of the Silly Circle would be The Little Fool's Circle because the circle is making the guy in the middle of the circle a fool
Bobo means fool, bobinho is a diminutive to bobo like little fool "The Little Fool's Circle" would be the full translation
Watched this series changing from "is Diniz right?" To "Diniz wins the Libertadores"
Great analytical comparation from Mr. Dave. Football is diverse, positional or relational? Who is the best? Interesting..
Football ⚽️ whatever approach positional or relationism you need to play with width especially in the opponents final third.
Caramba, olha a onde a vitória do Fluminense chegou a repercutir 😂😂😂
That’s crazy!
DINIZISMO 🇧🇷
Positional game is the inteligent path that Europeans followed to use what they have historicaly. Strong, tall, athletic players.
For me the relationism is the inteligent path for south american teams to be competitive with what they have! Sometimes very talented players but who doesnt match european teams phisical exigences.
See Ganso, Arrascaeta, De La Cruz, and a lot other incredibly talented players who would not fit european top teams...
So, European positional squads uses players that has the best atributes to play a specific role...
And south american squads with talented but sometimes older or not phisicaly incredible players (short, skiny), found another way to use their talent without missing the lack of phisical attributes.
Does it make sense or Im crazy?!
TOTAL FOOTBALL
Permutational Play + Permutation Game + Functional Play + Relational Play
I believe in Eric Ten Hag ....GGMU
faltou falar da saída de bola para atrair o adversario e quebrar linhas como um contraataque
If u ask a brazilian what is 'relationism', everbody gonna "????", but if u say "Dinizism", everyone will understand at the same time.
In time: In the brazilian street football tradition, "Bobinho" ( portuguese for "the little silly") means the player wich tries to get the ball from the wheel players, with no success.
And Fluminense won Libertadores, the best team in South America!
10:36 VERY FALSE !!! The Dutch didn't invent SQUAT. They simply copied South American Football, namely Brazil. Even the so called "Cruyff Turn" has also been used way before Cruyff. Pelé used it a lot, and he was far from being the first in Brazilian football to do so.
Louis Van Gal has always had problems with Brazilian players because he doesn't understand TOTAL FOOTBALL. He wanted players like RIVALDO or GIOVANNI to stay in one particular place the whole game. That goes against Brazilian football culture and strength.
Europeans and Americans have this tendency of stealing something from another country and calling their own. That is very wrong!
I'm Brazilian, Fluminense looks like a 40's club, aging players, Fluminense is not a favorite, but they're going to gain experience, they're going without any pressure, but I believe it will take a bit of work
Acho que o Diniz tem que levar todo o Time do Fluminense para a seleção, já estão mais entrosados 😅😅😅.
Naturaliza o cano e já era
Unhum o negócio é alguém que consiga fazer isso ou acha que em todo jogo alguém não tem essa função? O cano já teve 2 marcando ele em jogos e ele msm assim ainda fazer 2 gols
Manchester United should Target Andre in January. A serious talent ❤
😂😂😂But as soon as he joins united, he'll be just another flop
We say Flu-me-nen-see not Flu-me-nee-z. Also, nobody calls it "O Círculo Bobo". Its called "Bobo" or "Rodinha de Bobo", which means, in sequence, "Silly" and "Silly circle/wheel" (as you've put it in the video). Bobo or "Silly" are the players inside the ball that have to keep running after the ball to intercept it when its being passed inside the circle. Its very widespread here in Brazil from kids to professional clubs. In addition, "toco y me voy" its in Spanish and we don't use this term here. We just call it "Tabela" (its essentially the same thing, someone passses and moves forward to receive the ball, thus moving past the opponent)
Also, the biggest weakness of Diniz's tactic is counterattacks, especially when the opponents are able to recover the ball on their pitch. Since his style of play requires overloads, when he loses the ball his team will be completely out of shape, with only the DMs and CBs (which are not the fastest) to counter any moves. So, usually, either 1) his players have to press very quickly to get the ball back, 2) quickly get into defensive shape, 3) run like hell after their opponents if they manage to retain the ball or 4) do a tactical foul. Finally, gegenpress is not the most troublesome thing for Fluminense. Diniz specifically trains the team to play out from defence, even using the GK. When Fluminense loses the ball in their own field, more often than not is due to a mistake (bad pass, tripping, slipping, etc) rather than the result of a successful press
Don't be too nitpicky and just enjoy the video
@@brunokingz I did, otherwise I wouldn't be commenting. Its things that he can take into consideration in further videos, not hate.
The coach´s name is spelled wrong. It is Fernando DINIZ not "Deniz"
I wish man UTD would try new managers with new ideas
So do I…😢
Dembele na Mão de Diniz seria um dos melhores do mundo
Seems that the system is not working with the Brazilian national team. They have lost two consecutive games, which had never happened in tournaments for classification to the world cup, and they lost to Colombia for the first time in the history of the same clasfication.
Because they aren't well trained in that style of play. I saw the games and most of the team was a mess playing it. They need smart midfielders to make it work and only Andre knew how to play that style (because he's from Fluminense duh). The other 2 were doing the dumbest plays on the pitch
@@natirasohumana Update : now Brazil has lost 3 consecutive games, and is below Venezuela in the classification standings, something never seen before.
too chaotic imo. Best used on the wide areas only where its easier to counter press when there is a turnover. In the middle, it would be dangerous as it would leave the wide back open for the counterattacking team to exploit unless less players used to make the "circle". But that just basically falls back to positional style tactics. I remember this relational style when Carrick took over as interim manager at United but he was using less players(3-4 players) to play intricate football in midfield then Bruno spraying a long ball wide. It was nice to watch and at that time i was hoping carrick would become the permanent manager but he decided not to.
That's why Fluminense rarely do this through the middle. Their game is based on side tilts. The attack progresses through the wide corridor. And it's actually hard to counter because the ball is always convered and every pass in a very small and very crowded space so it's hard to progress the game fast enough to catch them off guard.
Brazilian league (Brasileirão) is really good, high level
It s not soó successful as yet but IS on a expectably good way to. What we see is his defender players packing together in séries of passes t discourage opponents. On the attack his most promising tactic was four or more players spinning on a forward wing and TWO of them rapid and with hundreds of Endless exchange passing to one another in improvised manners as well. In a given moment a big space Will break open for a coming Striker uptop. And It often breaks open simply bcs the defenders lost their long trained patience in blocking them..
I'm from Brazil. We call Diniz style Dinisismo 😂
Where there is order, there is chaos
That's the tactics you need to follow to be put on a "bobinho circle" by Uruguay and Colombia.
It isn’t called relationism.
It is called Dizinismo in Brazil
Why you keep on saying Flumineize 😢😢
I think that we should stop differentiate between tactics on a scale and use a cross diagram instead. There isn't just positional play or relativism but many different tactical concepts between. With wide plus narrow formations on the x-axis and rigid plus fluid positional play on the y-axis it's easier to exactly show how a team is playing.
Man City is playing very wide and rigid while and Fluminense is playing a fluid narrow style. But Brighton? They're playing wider but not extremely wide and are more fluid than Man City but not as fluid like Fluminense.
should man united go for andre
No stick with eth
uno andre plays cdm i wouldnt want to replace ETH with their midfielder @@utdspiritf1virk758
@@utdspiritf1virk758andre is a defensive kid not a manager😂
I bet he would do a better job as a manager tho lol @@arlenkamara
The player value is low is not a reflection of their quality…
They just had too many old players like Ganso, Marcelo, German Cano, Keno, Felipe Melo… these players aren’t worth much because of their age
Nós somos do Rio de Janeiro, cidade de praia e carnaval... Fluminense
Fluminense made Flamengo "roda de bobinho" in the final of the Campeonato Carioca, in 2022 and 2023. Flamengo players like fools, on the field 😅👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Video is awesome, but you're saying "Fluminense" as an Italian. It's not that hard, I'll etite it using English sounds: Flu-me-Nancy
FLUMINENSEEEE
Diniz sounds like Ancelotti. I don't think Ten Hag's system approach has worked with United so I would like to see Diniz at United. He could get a tune out of Antony.
He is apparently holding the fort for the Brazilian National Team until Ancelloti comes in next year
Diniz*
More british praising Diniz than Brazilians themselves.
Fluminense Football Club!
After watching this video, Im totally confused.
This ain't football, it's science 🤓
Quem nunca brincou de bobinho 😂😂😂. Litle fool
Just traditional brazilian dinamism with counterpressing ... There.
In the premier league where the competition is a lot higher I would think that once the ball is won the opposition would get a lot of joy on the counter or over the defence
Depends how quickly they are able to evade the press near the touchline. Dave also hadn’t mentioned the defensive diagonal which is often the full back on the other side in position to stop the counter
O think the exact opposite: with better players, this style would be even better.
brazilian league is more competitive than premier
Appreciate the work but you scout all that far to into Brazilian football just to look under your doorstep that Liverpool play the exact way through Trent Mo and now Dom, same for robbo Diaz and gravenberch with the 9 following across the lines, with robbo and Trent hybrid sometime in central and mostly in attacking possession out wide but good work bro keep the vids up we love em 👍
FLUMINENSE FOOTBALL CLUB !