I'm an electrician I love you guys but those high voltage gloves are liners, they are meant to be worn inside a leather glove to protect them from abrasions and punctures, you should never use them like that.
That multi-screen coolant temperature is the kind of thing that really adds to repairability. Often, the biggest challenge is *diagnosing* a problem, which will also help the driver decide if it's STOP NOW or FIND A PLACE. Love the info and transparency, hope you guys are prepared to scale when the time comes!
There are actually a few OEMs that allow you to use crazy button combinations (I know the ones for the discovery 3 and the mk1 focus) to get OBDII fault codes to print on their LCDs, but its silly that you even need to rely on crazy button combinations, and edison are also showing a lot more than just fault codes. This is good stuff.
This just shows how much you care about your product, not just “it’ll be fine, if it breaks they can fix it” it’s the push to make sure if things fail you can still keep going until you get to where you need to be
I love that Edison is doing it themselves. They are not outsourcing it to a third party that is trying to adapt someone else’s code. This means you have intimate knowledge of how everything works. These first few trucks are the next step in testing, Topsy is that crucial prototype to set your base line. Keep working and testing and finding the edge cases that break things.
I work on the field service side of the industry for an OEM you’re familiar with. I cannot get enough of what you’re doing. Much support keep it up. I support hydrid
@@user2C47 Unless I misunderstood the concept of Topsy: That truck has direct drive EV axles, meaning the electric motor is fully integrated into these axles. No drive shafts anywhere. Soo... Of what shafts do you speak here exactly?
@@user2C47in one of their China visit videos, they explained that there isn’t a shaft to pull out. However there is an accessible area on the axles to switch the axles from “drive mode to tow mode”. Tow mode works kinda like a Neutral or similar to pulling shafts.
@EdisonMotors Please make sure to ALWAYS check your HV gloves and wear the required leather cover gloves. The HV rubber is not designed for any puncture resistance as it is made of a very soft and easily sliced or punctured type of silicone. I work with high voltage battery emulators (battery simulators 1kVdc/600kW) every day along with 800V and greater inverter systems for both heavy duty and automotive traction motors and have seen the repercussions of not wearing them properly. Just want to make sure you all are safe and have the proper PPE, 30 seconds extra can save a life/limb. Keep this going its actually refreshing to see someone not jumping on the full EV bandwagon.
Kudos to the senior management team at EMCON for having the foresight to get on board! Seriously, I have seen their trucks in Ontario and seeing a company like EMCON actually getting on board and looking forward makes you feel better about where the MoT is spending their money. Would love to see Edison Trucks with an EMCON logo clearing the 401!
I know that most folks don't understand the incredible amount of testing and fixing and re-testing that goes into making anything work well, this is a great lesson for all of us !!
This is why testing is so important. The more you test, the more you understand what went wrong, and why, and even more important, how to fix it so it doesn't reoccur. Then with all that data, you have to go through it line by line to see what came first. Then you can work through the system, problem solving as you go. Absolutely brilliant piece of micro management as it should be performed. You have the perfect team put together, who can work together, and solve potential problems, before they become actual problems. I love the work you are doing, to produce your first truck for sale. It will have been built by people who know what, where, and why, and can advise as necessary. Superb engineering in the flesh. This is how it should be done, and with the right team behind you, and all things being equal, you have the ethos to build safe, efficient and technologically advanced products to be proud of. GOOD LUCK in the journey and even better, best wishes for all of you.
What a refreshing approach to designing, building and supplying a top notch product. 100% support the work you guys doing. My only thought was to install a capacitor to help handle the voltage fluctuations when regeneration occurs. Keep up the incredible work boys!
makes sense, if it's a sudden inrush you can't jump to engine braking to absorb it, and if the batteries are too full you can't push it there anyway. Even when not full not 100% of available regen energy has to be recaptured.
I really appreciate all the love of design you guys have for this project. I've been saving for years that we needed a diesel gen set on an electric truck. A#1
One thing that I recommend, as a retired maintenance technician is building for repairability and easy access for troubleshooting. Mount components on panels that swing out for easy access to both sides and can be quickly unclipped, unplugged, and swapped out in minutes without having to remove other components for access. Instead of having to remove 20 bolts to get a panel off for access, have pinned slide locks on most of the attachment points and just one or two locking bolts or latches that only have to keep it from sliding thus keeping it all together with a small standard sized fastener. Being able to repair any system with a single ratcheting box end wrench and replacement parts or modules, will make truck down time nonexistent. Also try to use as few different components as possible. Pick one type and style of relay throughout all the systems, so if you have two of those on the shelf, you can solve replacement problems for the entire truck. Having to stock 30 different relays is a royal pain. Offer replacement panels, but also offer individual parts and components so those panels can be repaired and tested, then put back into inventory.
Don't forget, the regen controller / software procedure MUST talk to the BMS, to establish what max power the batteries can absorb at any given time, AND also talk to the antilock braking system. The engine braking system on my Dodge 6.7l would easily lock up the wheels in the winter and / or with slippery surface roads. This should be easy enough by passing around some unallocated variables in the canbus system and using them to interlock the regen and establish the rate of regen. This will be worse when on emergency with the onboard generator as the generator cannot absorb the regen power so consider no regen during generator use? Also, you for sure need spike suppression devices (vacuum tube, MOV, etc) between the regen output and the batteries. Or right on the BMS's as the spike problem may not go away due to the variable nature of the mechanical feedback of the drivetrain to the motor / generator. If you don't suppress that all the high voltage electrics will be at risk. Keep up that really interesting project!
@@mlindholm The resistive load bank heat will need to be calculated. With 50 tonne of logs onboard there is gonna be a lot! Check out how hot a Telma gets on full retardation.
@@garethgrundy8087 no way around the fact that they will need actual brakes too. No way you'll make a regen that can take the whole brunt of it, even with resistors to dump excess energy as heat. This is true with electric cars as well, they have real brakes for when things get hairy.
Don't worry, them boys work in BC winter conditions, they know ice/snow. Check out the video they did of throwing chains for drivers south of the Snowshed on the Coquihalla if you haven't.
I am SO HAPPY to see you guys learning from your mistakes. I love how you demonstrate trial and error. I've started trying to implement that in my life as I begin my IBEW electricians apprenticeship!
As a software developer / control systems engineer I learned you can never have too much data at your fingertips. I've been criticized by companies that I did design and development work for that stated I did more than I should have, and charged too much for it only to have everyone find out that they needed those features at some point. Not to pat myself on the back but I know we cannot see around every corner and that includes me, so it's better to have more diagnostic data than you might think you need. Another aspect of this is that it's faster and cheaper to add the data in while you're developing than it is to come back later and add these things in piecemeal.
Very impressed by your practices, transparency and honesty. As someone who hates electric cars your trucks are absolutely awesome, combining the benefits that both combustion and electric have to offer and bringing that to the trucking market with its greater efficiency is definitely the truely greener way.
Thanks for a great update and showing everyone what real R&D is made from. Lots of thinking, testing, and redesign. Glad you are not putting the product on the market prematurely and having unhappy customers finding all the problems like some other companies do.
I think other peoples already said it but those rubber gloves for high voltage NEED their leather outer gloves on top. If you ever use them without the out protective leather gloves they are to be considered scrap. Also they have a limited lifetime and must be sent to testing every 6 months, any tiny pinhole makes them completely worthless. Test the glove before every single use by rolling it tight and seeing and listening if air is leaking out. I'm a BMS developer, I regularly work with high voltage batteries and in thia context we had our team be trained for level 3 high voltage handling and safety. Considering the kind of system you work on, thia kind of formation is very relevant for you.
IU am so impressed by your whole enterprise. Intelligent design, thoughtful redundancy, and wholesome/humble attitude makes me wish I was 35 years younger and could work for/with you guys. Keep it up :)
Wanted to add, this is proper engineering. Build a prototype that is modular, easy to work on, rough riding as hell to beat up and abuse equipment, break stuff, figure out why, upgrade and make it better as needed. I do have to admit, when you guys removed the alternator, that had me kinda wondering if it would come back as an oops. Well, now you have a way to add redundancy back in and you are learning from these lessons. Most companies would be like "Nah, we still don't need the alternator, we will just rely on a better design of DC to DC." but you guys are basically "Ok, we do not want that to happen again on the trail, alternator back in!" and it is beautiful! Should the alternator have an issue, that is a repair that can be made on the trail. We need, more of this.
It seems as if the majority of the time, the hardware of the truck is ok, and the repair can be done by rewriting some computer code. My how trucking has changed. Great job guys!
I am not a trucker. But I have always enjoyed big trucks. I have watched most of your build videos. I would love to have an F150 size truck built from the ground up using the ideas of Topsy. Simple cab, everything. I am really disliking modern trucks, they are not work trucks any more. I love the idea of the 250 HP drive axle and would want the same on steer axle as well. (500 total horse power ) in something the size of a F150. I could really get into that.
They are working on pick-up conversion kits, maybe one day they'll do their own light/medium duty pick-up style trucks, and vans, I am with you, I think it'd be awesome for a work focused pick-up, instead of modern trucks essentially being big passenger vehicles.
Watching your installation of the fuse reminds me of the challenges a dual line OEM is having with where they put their fuses and how incredibly over engineered the disconnect and fuse location is. I do appreciate the foresight about keeping these trucks accessible and repairable by technicians without all the special tools and nonsense.
It’s exciting to watch Topsy’s progression. You guys have shown how dedicated you are to making this thing happen, and making it properly before it gets to your future customers. Thanks for not making your customers your testers.
My hat was off to you guys back when you buillt a truck faster than not getting the one you were put on a lengthy waiting list to get...Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for putting out. As a recent graduate, I am learning a lot about what OEMs go through, you are a still new but often companies correct their major mistakes and Thanks to the team for explaining the solution to these issues.
I write computer programs, and I have found that it is important to ask the customer to try to break it so you can find all of the bugs and sort them out. Good to see that you are doing exactly that with the truck. Good luck with it.
Thank you brother for sharing this video. People always focus on the successes, but they don’t realize that with one success there have been thousands of setbacks you guys keep on doing what you’re doing don’t stop no matter what God will bless everything that you put your hands to you. Greetings to you and everybody on your team. You guys are doing a great job. Love seeing your videos.
This is the first time I've been excited about electric trucks in so long. Love you guys are out of bc too, keep up the great work! I really want one of those half ton conversion kits
I’ve wondered for many years when the concept of diesel/ electric technology would be applied to hauling vehicles. Batteries are a different story. Good luck. Will be following your channel
Over many years, I'm firmly of the opinion you learn much more when things don't go as expected, because you have to analyse the problem and what caused it, and then how to avoid the problem from recurring. When things just go right all the time, you might miss potential future problems.
This is a fascinating series, I'm really enjoying watching the development. I spent years in high tech, so I know that your biggest and most important improvements come in response to failures, so hurrah for road testing! Thanks for sharing all this, I'm excited to keep following your progress. You're doing it right. I have /never/ regretted having redundancy. But I've bitterly regretted loaning out my 'backup'.
This is all so fantastic! I’ve been following yalls progress for a while now and I’ve got a bit of input since y’all touched on vibration and driver comfort so much: opt for an all-aluminum radiator. Yes they cost more, I’m a diesel mechanic in the states and I work on over the road transport trucks. There is nothing that infuriates me more than having to replace a radiator that has failed because the tanks are plastic. Absolute garbage. It’s always freightliners too, nine times out of ten. Use all aluminum radiators, they’re way better off. Run those in all my personal vehicles as well
Either way, it is my prayer that he never fails in his dedication to all he knows in victory against corruption. Though he be denied a challenge to his character of such a scale, and I consider him as good as if he already had such, I petition the lord that victory against corruption persists beyond all the limits that seem to be in the way, in some miraculous nature. He far exceeds the psychopaths keeping our world so low, as many of us do; I expect we would know unparalleled progress, more than what we see here, and all this in addition to persistent good will applied in his opportunity of authority. This would all the same be a very difficult challenge of character and reliable self regard.
@@jasonlarsen3515they usually say they tested but then it fails way sooner than what they say. Remember Cadillacs v8-6-4. They said they tested it 500k miles but then almost all the them failed before 100k
We have high voltage gloves at work. We use them with leather covers to protect the rubber or whatever material it is. Might just be for dexterity on your end but thought I'd mention it.
OEMs love to beat their chest about their "totally functional concepts" that they never bring to market, or take to market after re-engineering the entire thing twice over in total silence because they don't want to put their foot in their giant mouth. love that you guys are transparent and showing the process of getting a product truly ready for production!
Your not wrong but all the parts are from China I think the idea is an open source truck that is over built from the get-go. Nobody does that anymore Incl. even Toyota is slacking unless it's the old models they only sell to the UN
The application theory is perfect and hats off to you for taking your idea and building it with your team. This latest video is something you should all watch back a couple of times yourselves. Reflect on what you are aiming to achieve, how you are going about it and the issues you are encountering. Take a step back and analyse yourselves and the decisions, both good and bad, that have resulted in where you are now. The whole premise of your theory is employing high current regeneration while fully loaded. It would appear you have not fully theorised how to safely and reliably do that from the outset. You have no retarder and no engine braking as a back up should any part of the regen system fail going down a hill fully loaded. Plan for the worst case scenario from the outset and build the truck accordingly. I love what you are all doing we all want you to succeed.
I really wish I had a few million to invest in you all. You're all solid people and willing to do the needful to make it all correctly! Loving this series and watching this all unfold.
I've enjoyed your truck build series! I have a suggestion for you; on those battery fuses, see if your supplier can provide a blown indicator that shows when you have a dead fuse with an LED illuminated on the fuse body. That way, you have a no-tool diagnostic option in the field if you blow a fuse. Also, why not put a lithium iron 24v battery rather than a lead acid battery. Even Tesla has removed their low voltage lead acid battery from their cars now... I agree that leaving an alternator on the genset for the 24v side is a good idea.
Interesting quirks & bugs popping up in a pre-production prototype are what it's all about to build something you want to sell. Trucks are complicated creatures to build, but, you seem to be on the right path, carry on carrying on, it's fun to watch happen.
@27:44 SpaceX does the same thing. Break it above your design safety margin before your customers find one below your personal satisfaction expectation level. Love how you are building this great team.🇨🇦 for Canadian truckers.
Eric should have been a teacher, very easy to listen to and knows his stuff, nothing against you Chace LOL. I appreciate the honesty...same as you'd get from the big three...yeah right.
hey so I just tinker with things and I'm going into diesel mechanics right now so I'm not a professional by any means in electrical, but for the regen voltage spikes, have you considered having capacitors to act sort of as voltage cushions whenever you quickly let off the throttle? I'm sure you could just program the system to be more gentle with the regen as you said in the video, but it just popped into my brain and I figured I might as well give you that food for thought. I love the truck and I love your guy's work. I'm rooting for y'all.
Every fault you find is a good thing. Once the issue is solved, that's one more way the truck won't fail the customer. Keep looking for faults and you'll have a bulletproof truck. Keep testing in every situation you can think of.
Nice to see the process and the solution based progress. I don't know much about semi trucks, but I seem to recall older rigs having a sort of pull down actuator for the horn function. I surmise that was a nod to the early days of steam locomotives, however I lack the expertise to fully discern if that is the case. Perhaps a video enlightening us all to the history thereof. I for one thought it was a neat feature.
What a great attitude to testing. Find the flaws early and fix them before production. Your customers shouldn't be your testers (Elon are you listening).
@@EdisonMotorsExactly why you guys have such a following from many fellow like minded people to the automotive to the IT fields plus engineers across the world.
not just "today's world" this has always been the right way to do it. the reason many companies don't run this way is short term thinking to make shareholders happy, they want to see growth every quarter so corners get cut until there isn't anything left.
@@The-Urban-Goose oh absolutely right there as well! Leadership always being the ones to break news as to what's happening and explaining each choice. If this is how they mean to go on with this company they will be very successful! (Assuming the government doesn't shut them down for some made up reason)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, ideas and videos. Great to hear the updates on the testing. Definitely like your idea of restoring the engine alternator. Great to have redundant systems. Just because it’s installed doesn’t mean it’s your primary. Your engineers could probably confirm or deny but you might look into Super Caps instead of separate 24v or 12v Batteries. They supposedly are more durable IE less sensitive and have little to no cycle loss of life. Basically they are a big storage reserve for your charge available in large short bursts. They are very popular in the automotive extreme audio players since a relatively weak alternator can charge them up and maintain the charge as a powerful amplifier pulls from them in intermittent and extreme short pulse’s. I like the low maintenance aspect on the control power aspect and might take up some slack if you want to run in backup mode off just the alternator. Specified correctly a second beefed up set mighty be able to handle the swings in power that the axel motors kick out and while accepting the power from the primary alternator. Wishing you, your crew, and families the best.
I used to get excited about new developments in vehicle technology by reading the big publisher magazines. Now, those same magazines annoy me. Instead, when you guys post updates on your trucks, I get excited for this! You guys are doing exactly what I have said the industry as a whole needs to be doing. You guys rock and keep up the awesome work!!
I can't wait to see Topsy pull a loaded log trailer. I know it seems like slow going right now, but you're still leaps and bounds over anything else in North America. The system you've developed could be adapted to other big vehicles, it'd be great to see some branching out in the future.
This project looks like so much fun! It almost sounded like you didn't have a load resistor on the genny to keep it from spinning out. No super caps to keep things steady? They really help on the inrush.
You're team is doing great work and I really appreciate the honesty and openness in these videos. I wish there were more companies like you guys and the world would be a better place. Keep up the great work and I look forward to seeing your progress.
This reminds me of my time working as a machinist in a prototyping area, People seem to assume that engineer designs it, we make it, and boom there's a product, I can't tell you the number of times we got a print, made it, the company goes "Cool it's exactly what we asked for... doesn't work, we'll send it back, do this that and other to it" Send out the modified part "Doesn't work, here's a new print, make it like this" The thing is these are the companies that HAVE a ton of experience and money. Turns out reality vs theory is very different, and prototypes are often "This should work"... but it doesn't, so any new technology or system goes though many, many, many iterations before they go "Okay now make us 300 of those"
24:38 That diagram has multiple limitations and potential problems. -No bypass on the rad, -Probable oil logging, likely in the cab evap, -The heat pump likely can only be used to warm the batteries, warming the cab would only be possible with an electrical actuator on the 3-way valve instead of a thermostatic valve, and even then I don't think it'll work well -Expansion valves will need to be EEVs with multiple sensors, as single sensing (including TXVs) don't work on multiple circuits like this, -No backup / passive cooling possible to the batteries when the compressor fails, or just isn't needed, -a few other minor things
Thanks for the comment! We really appreciate the feedback. To respond to some of your concerns: 1. We have no bypass on the rad and no passive loop for the batteries because we don't want to use solenoid valves. It's simpler and cheaper to design without that control system. An "off the shelf" chiller simply uses a small integrated condenser, this system will be a significant improvement. 2. Oil logging is certainly a concern, we will be using industry standards to mitigate, but any suggestions are appreciated. 3. The three way mixing valve, ideally, will be an actuator. If it's too complex, it can be a simple manual valve turned by the operator to choose between hot & cold. If you reverse the heat pump, the hot side becomes cold & cold becomes hot. There will also be a backup resistive heater. 4. The thermal expansion valve system will be the most complex part of the chiller if we use parallel evaporators. If we need to use an EEV, it will be a self contained control loop in the chiller for simplicity. Any other comments or concerns are appreciated. I'd like to utilize the expertise in our fanbase as much as possible.
@@jacoblafond138 I sent a message via the edison webpage. You're probably busier than beaver patching a dam. If there's another method of contact you'd prefer, I'd love to offer some advice from the practical side of things. I'm a commercial /industrial HVAC tech from Ontario. I want nothing from y'all in return, just love the project.
In my experience with BLDC regen I had to monitor bus voltage, went from 120V to over 350V limited by PID by preventing excess regen. On top of that, a power resistor across the DC link with a fet to burn excess power with another PID loop - youd need a few toasters for Topsy though so probably not viable (locos do it but they have a bit more space available) Have you looked into reverse motoring for heavy braking? When I needed even faster deceleration, we switch from regen to reverse motoring. Downside: it turns all the mechanical + electrical power as heat in the motor windings. Pro: mucho braking effort.
In this case there's a huge battery on the bus that you would expect to soak up any regen current and prevent the voltage from rising. I guess what is happening here is that the BMS is tripping and disconnecting the battery during regen, which would be understandable if they tried to regenerate into an already 100% full battery.
So how long until I can see Topsy at the Great Lakes Big Rig Truck Challenge? Would be amazing to see it drag race a diesel semi at the fully loaded drag races!
Maybe you thought about this, about regen... A switch, like a jake-/exaust-brake/retarder, so youbcan brake "harder" if needed and less if for example empty. Sometimes you just dont need full engine brake to maintain the speed you want. Good job and great video!
Great insight in to the development process, having worked on a number of prototypes myself; If stuff isn't breaking then you're not testing hard enough! A thought I had when it came to cab design: Given the rough roads and risk of roll-over accidents, does the headache rack act as your Roll-Over Protection System (ROPS) or is the cab designed to perform that function?
I'm an electrician I love you guys but those high voltage gloves are liners, they are meant to be worn inside a leather glove to protect them from abrasions and punctures, you should never use them like that.
I'm glad someone else said it. I said out loud "where are your leathers?!"
Can we not upvote this more? Lives at stake lol.
That multi-screen coolant temperature is the kind of thing that really adds to repairability. Often, the biggest challenge is *diagnosing* a problem, which will also help the driver decide if it's STOP NOW or FIND A PLACE.
Love the info and transparency, hope you guys are prepared to scale when the time comes!
There are actually a few OEMs that allow you to use crazy button combinations (I know the ones for the discovery 3 and the mk1 focus) to get OBDII fault codes to print on their LCDs, but its silly that you even need to rely on crazy button combinations, and edison are also showing a lot more than just fault codes. This is good stuff.
I hate it when I find a place when I should have STOP'd NOW 😂
This just shows how much you care about your product, not just “it’ll be fine, if it breaks they can fix it” it’s the push to make sure if things fail you can still keep going until you get to where you need to be
I love that Edison is doing it themselves. They are not outsourcing it to a third party that is trying to adapt someone else’s code. This means you have intimate knowledge of how everything works. These first few trucks are the next step in testing, Topsy is that crucial prototype to set your base line. Keep working and testing and finding the edge cases that break things.
We had to outsource that code initially as we didn't have the resources at the start but we're slowing being able to handle more and more ourselves
@@EdisonMotors that is some wonderful honesty!
Yeah this is one of the things that has worked well for tesla too.
@wild_lee_coyote
all of the Drivetrain components are outsourced. So not sure how you came to this conclusion.
I work on the field service side of the industry for an OEM you’re familiar with.
I cannot get enough of what you’re doing. Much support keep it up.
I support hydrid
at the rate you guys are going, this will be the hardest truck to actually break down out there! as long as nothing in the drive axles lock up.
Even if one did lock up, you could just pull the shafts and use the other one.
@@user2C47 Unless I misunderstood the concept of Topsy: That truck has direct drive EV axles, meaning the electric motor is fully integrated into these axles. No drive shafts anywhere.
Soo... Of what shafts do you speak here exactly?
@@wiedapp Axle shafts. They go from the differential to the wheel. Worst case, just take the whole wheel off.
@@user2C47 Nope, doesn't have these either.
@@user2C47in one of their China visit videos, they explained that there isn’t a shaft to pull out. However there is an accessible area on the axles to switch the axles from “drive mode to tow mode”. Tow mode works kinda like a Neutral or similar to pulling shafts.
@EdisonMotors Please make sure to ALWAYS check your HV gloves and wear the required leather cover gloves. The HV rubber is not designed for any puncture resistance as it is made of a very soft and easily sliced or punctured type of silicone. I work with high voltage battery emulators (battery simulators 1kVdc/600kW) every day along with 800V and greater inverter systems for both heavy duty and automotive traction motors and have seen the repercussions of not wearing them properly. Just want to make sure you all are safe and have the proper PPE, 30 seconds extra can save a life/limb. Keep this going its actually refreshing to see someone not jumping on the full EV bandwagon.
Kudos to the senior management team at EMCON for having the foresight to get on board!
Seriously, I have seen their trucks in Ontario and seeing a company like EMCON actually getting on board and looking forward makes you feel better about where the MoT is spending their money.
Would love to see Edison Trucks with an EMCON logo clearing the 401!
I know that most folks don't understand the incredible amount of testing and fixing and re-testing that goes into making anything work well, this is a great lesson for all of us !!
This is why testing is so important. The more you test, the more you understand what went wrong, and why, and even more important, how to fix it so it doesn't reoccur. Then with all that data, you have to go through it line by line to see what came first. Then you can work through the system, problem solving as you go. Absolutely brilliant piece of micro management as it should be performed. You have the perfect team put together, who can work together, and solve potential problems, before they become actual problems. I love the work you are doing, to produce your first truck for sale. It will have been built by people who know what, where, and why, and can advise as necessary.
Superb engineering in the flesh. This is how it should be done, and with the right team behind you, and all things being equal, you have the ethos to build safe, efficient and technologically advanced products to be proud of. GOOD LUCK in the journey and even better, best wishes for all of you.
What a refreshing approach to designing, building and supplying a top notch product. 100% support the work you guys doing. My only thought was to install a capacitor to help handle the voltage fluctuations when regeneration occurs. Keep up the incredible work boys!
They're going to install a small resistive load bank to handle it now
makes sense, if it's a sudden inrush you can't jump to engine braking to absorb it, and if the batteries are too full you can't push it there anyway. Even when not full not 100% of available regen energy has to be recaptured.
Love the detailed insight into the process, keep up the amazing work!
Thanks man. Hopefully this shows people a little bit more in what it takes to design and prototype something new
I really appreciate all the love of design you guys have for this project. I've been saving for years that we needed a diesel gen set on an electric truck. A#1
One thing that I recommend, as a retired maintenance technician is building for repairability and easy access for troubleshooting. Mount components on panels that swing out for easy access to both sides and can be quickly unclipped, unplugged, and swapped out in minutes without having to remove other components for access. Instead of having to remove 20 bolts to get a panel off for access, have pinned slide locks on most of the attachment points and just one or two locking bolts or latches that only have to keep it from sliding thus keeping it all together with a small standard sized fastener. Being able to repair any system with a single ratcheting box end wrench and replacement parts or modules, will make truck down time nonexistent. Also try to use as few different components as possible. Pick one type and style of relay throughout all the systems, so if you have two of those on the shelf, you can solve replacement problems for the entire truck. Having to stock 30 different relays is a royal pain. Offer replacement panels, but also offer individual parts and components so those panels can be repaired and tested, then put back into inventory.
You breaking things now, is good news, as it translates to a more reliable product to customers.
As a product development engineer in BC, in the work truck space this is SO cool to see GOOD engineering and thought. Keep doing the good work boys 💪
I ame soo happy to see some actual product development is going on. Without all the bs of sales cut out, soo you see the real picture.
Can you imagine how good your Ford or Chevy would be if those companies cared this much?
Keep up the good work brothers!
Don't forget, the regen controller / software procedure MUST talk to the BMS, to establish what max power the batteries can absorb at any given time, AND also talk to the antilock braking system. The engine braking system on my Dodge 6.7l would easily lock up the wheels in the winter and / or with slippery surface roads. This should be easy enough by passing around some unallocated variables in the canbus system and using them to interlock the regen and establish the rate of regen. This will be worse when on emergency with the onboard generator as the generator cannot absorb the regen power so consider no regen during generator use? Also, you for sure need spike suppression devices (vacuum tube, MOV, etc) between the regen output and the batteries. Or right on the BMS's as the spike problem may not go away due to the variable nature of the mechanical feedback of the drivetrain to the motor / generator. If you don't suppress that all the high voltage electrics will be at risk. Keep up that really interesting project!
you need to join the team.
He replied to someone else they're adding a resistive load bank as a secondary output to dump captured power to.
@@mlindholm The resistive load bank heat will need to be calculated. With 50 tonne of logs onboard there is gonna be a lot! Check out how hot a Telma gets on full retardation.
@@garethgrundy8087 no way around the fact that they will need actual brakes too. No way you'll make a regen that can take the whole brunt of it, even with resistors to dump excess energy as heat. This is true with electric cars as well, they have real brakes for when things get hairy.
Don't worry, them boys work in BC winter conditions, they know ice/snow. Check out the video they did of throwing chains for drivers south of the Snowshed on the Coquihalla if you haven't.
I like the way you approach things, test it, break ist, analysing the error and fix it
I am SO HAPPY to see you guys learning from your mistakes. I love how you demonstrate trial and error. I've started trying to implement that in my life as I begin my IBEW electricians apprenticeship!
As a software developer / control systems engineer I learned you can never have too much data at your fingertips. I've been criticized by companies that I did design and development work for that stated I did more than I should have, and charged too much for it only to have everyone find out that they needed those features at some point.
Not to pat myself on the back but I know we cannot see around every corner and that includes me, so it's better to have more diagnostic data than you might think you need. Another aspect of this is that it's faster and cheaper to add the data in while you're developing than it is to come back later and add these things in piecemeal.
if there is a sensor, someone might want to know what it's senses
So True , Thank You
Very impressed by your practices, transparency and honesty. As someone who hates electric cars your trucks are absolutely awesome, combining the benefits that both combustion and electric have to offer and bringing that to the trucking market with its greater efficiency is definitely the truely greener way.
Thanks for a great update and showing everyone what real R&D is made from. Lots of thinking, testing, and redesign. Glad you are not putting the product on the market prematurely and having unhappy customers finding all the problems like some other companies do.
I think other peoples already said it but those rubber gloves for high voltage NEED their leather outer gloves on top. If you ever use them without the out protective leather gloves they are to be considered scrap. Also they have a limited lifetime and must be sent to testing every 6 months, any tiny pinhole makes them completely worthless. Test the glove before every single use by rolling it tight and seeing and listening if air is leaking out.
I'm a BMS developer, I regularly work with high voltage batteries and in thia context we had our team be trained for level 3 high voltage handling and safety. Considering the kind of system you work on, thia kind of formation is very relevant for you.
IU am so impressed by your whole enterprise. Intelligent design, thoughtful redundancy, and wholesome/humble attitude makes me wish I was 35 years younger and could work for/with you guys. Keep it up :)
Wanted to add, this is proper engineering. Build a prototype that is modular, easy to work on, rough riding as hell to beat up and abuse equipment, break stuff, figure out why, upgrade and make it better as needed. I do have to admit, when you guys removed the alternator, that had me kinda wondering if it would come back as an oops. Well, now you have a way to add redundancy back in and you are learning from these lessons. Most companies would be like "Nah, we still don't need the alternator, we will just rely on a better design of DC to DC." but you guys are basically "Ok, we do not want that to happen again on the trail, alternator back in!" and it is beautiful! Should the alternator have an issue, that is a repair that can be made on the trail. We need, more of this.
So glad for the update! Keep on truckin’ boys!
Nice, the expandable pressures/ tempuratures on the display will be a lifesaver for future quick diag while you're on the side of the road 👍
We need more of this on RUclips. Thanks guys!
Really appreciate you allowing us to take this adventure with your group and have a hands on stilled experience!
It seems as if the majority of the time, the hardware of the truck is ok, and the repair can be done by rewriting some computer code. My how trucking has changed. Great job guys!
I am not a trucker. But I have always enjoyed big trucks. I have watched most of your build videos. I would love to have an F150 size truck built from the ground up using the ideas of Topsy. Simple cab, everything. I am really disliking modern trucks, they are not work trucks any more. I love the idea of the 250 HP drive axle and would want the same on steer axle as well. (500 total horse power ) in something the size of a F150. I could really get into that.
They are working on pick-up conversion kits, maybe one day they'll do their own light/medium duty pick-up style trucks, and vans, I am with you, I think it'd be awesome for a work focused pick-up, instead of modern trucks essentially being big passenger vehicles.
Watching your installation of the fuse reminds me of the challenges a dual line OEM is having with where they put their fuses and how incredibly over engineered the disconnect and fuse location is. I do appreciate the foresight about keeping these trucks accessible and repairable by technicians without all the special tools and nonsense.
Love this video. Show us the struggles! you all are doing the best and I cant wait to see this company in 10 year being the leaders!
It’s exciting to watch Topsy’s progression. You guys have shown how dedicated you are to making this thing happen, and making it properly before it gets to your future customers. Thanks for not making your customers your testers.
My hat was off to you guys back when you buillt a truck faster than not getting the one you were put on a lengthy waiting list to get...Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for putting out. As a recent graduate, I am learning a lot about what OEMs go through, you are a still new but often companies correct their major mistakes and Thanks to the team for explaining the solution to these issues.
I write computer programs, and I have found that it is important to ask the customer to try to break it so you can find all of the bugs and sort them out.
Good to see that you are doing exactly that with the truck. Good luck with it.
Thank you brother for sharing this video. People always focus on the successes, but they don’t realize that with one success there have been thousands of setbacks you guys keep on doing what you’re doing don’t stop no matter what God will bless everything that you put your hands to you. Greetings to you and everybody on your team. You guys are doing a great job. Love seeing your videos.
You guys are inspiring for a multitude of reasons and one of the few things and or people who make me proud of Canada 🇨🇦
Excited to see the first time they do a set up with a powered axle trailer. Like the military use to do
This is the first time I've been excited about electric trucks in so long. Love you guys are out of bc too, keep up the great work! I really want one of those half ton conversion kits
I love the fact we get to see all these updates I'm looking forward to seeing these trucks on the road thank you guys for making these videos
I’ve wondered for many years when the concept of diesel/ electric technology would be applied to hauling vehicles.
Batteries are a different story. Good luck. Will be following your channel
Y’all are doing great and I’m excited to watch every time there’s a new video. I’m not even a trucker, I’m a painter.
Over many years, I'm firmly of the opinion you learn much more when things don't go as expected, because you have to analyse the problem and what caused it, and then how to avoid the problem from recurring. When things just go right all the time, you might miss potential future problems.
This is a fascinating series, I'm really enjoying watching the development. I spent years in high tech, so I know that your biggest and most important improvements come in response to failures, so hurrah for road testing! Thanks for sharing all this, I'm excited to keep following your progress. You're doing it right.
I have /never/ regretted having redundancy. But I've bitterly regretted loaning out my 'backup'.
This is all so fantastic! I’ve been following yalls progress for a while now and I’ve got a bit of input since y’all touched on vibration and driver comfort so much: opt for an all-aluminum radiator. Yes they cost more, I’m a diesel mechanic in the states and I work on over the road transport trucks. There is nothing that infuriates me more than having to replace a radiator that has failed because the tanks are plastic. Absolute garbage. It’s always freightliners too, nine times out of ten. Use all aluminum radiators, they’re way better off. Run those in all my personal vehicles as well
You guys will eventually own the trucking market or your competitors will start copying your model
Very true. I'm waiting for one of the major companies to pounce at the worst time when Edison might be vulnerable. I hope it doesn't happen
You don’t think every manufacturer does testing ?
Either way, it is my prayer that he never fails in his dedication to all he knows in victory against corruption. Though he be denied a challenge to his character of such a scale, and I consider him as good as if he already had such, I petition the lord that victory against corruption persists beyond all the limits that seem to be in the way, in some miraculous nature. He far exceeds the psychopaths keeping our world so low, as many of us do; I expect we would know unparalleled progress, more than what we see here, and all this in addition to persistent good will applied in his opportunity of authority. This would all the same be a very difficult challenge of character and reliable self regard.
@@jasonlarsen3515they usually say they tested but then it fails way sooner than what they say. Remember Cadillacs v8-6-4. They said they tested it 500k miles but then almost all the them failed before 100k
@@darronsargent3956 he WILL get bought out. Beyond a doubt. Or they will hamstring him.
This is the best project on you tube. Its great to see the issues and fixes as you're learning ❤
We have high voltage gloves at work. We use them with leather covers to protect the rubber or whatever material it is.
Might just be for dexterity on your end but thought I'd mention it.
OEMs love to beat their chest about their "totally functional concepts" that they never bring to market, or take to market after re-engineering the entire thing twice over in total silence because they don't want to put their foot in their giant mouth.
love that you guys are transparent and showing the process of getting a product truly ready for production!
Wow you guys are so open and honest!! Rare thing these days
Very impressive team. I can't wait to see the final truck. Thank you!
Please don’t underestimate foreign industrial hackers. You are likely to be a target. May you have all the success!
I am a foreign (to canada) hacker and i'd love to target... Work on your truck:)
Less worried about foreign hackers. This is going to be a major market disrupter. I’d be wary of domestic sabotage.
"Foreign industrial hackers" targeting what exactly? Edison isnt exacrly the type of company to be hoarding industry secrets
Your not wrong but all the parts are from China I think the idea is an open source truck that is over built from the get-go. Nobody does that anymore Incl. even Toyota is slacking unless it's the old models they only sell to the UN
It’s beautiful it seems like an entire community is putting this truck together.
The application theory is perfect and hats off to you for taking your idea and building it with your team.
This latest video is something you should all watch back a couple of times yourselves.
Reflect on what you are aiming to achieve, how you are going about it and the issues you are encountering.
Take a step back and analyse yourselves and the decisions, both good and bad, that have resulted in where you are now.
The whole premise of your theory is employing high current regeneration while fully loaded. It would appear you have not fully theorised how to safely and reliably do that from the outset. You have no retarder and no engine braking as a back up should any part of the regen system fail going down a hill fully loaded.
Plan for the worst case scenario from the outset and build the truck accordingly.
I love what you are all doing we all want you to succeed.
I really wish I had a few million to invest in you all. You're all solid people and willing to do the needful to make it all correctly! Loving this series and watching this all unfold.
So Wise , Thank You for showing the importance of REAL WORLD TESTING, and Calibrating. and the importance of Spare parts
Integrity is important. Love your guys work!
Love you stuff. Looking forward to the LTT episode if everyone is able to make that happen one day.
I've enjoyed your truck build series! I have a suggestion for you; on those battery fuses, see if your supplier can provide a blown indicator that shows when you have a dead fuse with an LED illuminated on the fuse body. That way, you have a no-tool diagnostic option in the field if you blow a fuse. Also, why not put a lithium iron 24v battery rather than a lead acid battery. Even Tesla has removed their low voltage lead acid battery from their cars now... I agree that leaving an alternator on the genset for the 24v side is a good idea.
LOVE THIS KIND OF HONESTY
Thanks for fixing my idea on alternator VS DC-DC 👍
Loving the vids and being able to be a part of the community. As you scale up maybe have a look at the old western star building here in Kelowna.
SUPER EPIC Volvos spotted 9:13 damn those are nice
Interesting quirks & bugs popping up in a pre-production prototype are what it's all about to build something you want to sell. Trucks are complicated creatures to build, but, you seem to be on the right path, carry on carrying on, it's fun to watch happen.
@27:44 SpaceX does the same thing.
Break it above your design safety margin before your customers find one below your personal satisfaction expectation level.
Love how you are building this great team.🇨🇦 for Canadian truckers.
Man I cannot wait for Edison to get all the way there, I would love one of these set up as a tri-axle dump truck
Love seeing how the sausage is made.. Thanks!
Eric should have been a teacher, very easy to listen to and knows his stuff, nothing against you Chace LOL. I appreciate the honesty...same as you'd get from the big three...yeah right.
Listen to nobody but yourselves. It’s yalls project with y’all’s brains. Go guys go
I love how capital efficient you guys are.
hey so I just tinker with things and I'm going into diesel mechanics right now so I'm not a professional by any means in electrical, but for the regen voltage spikes, have you considered having capacitors to act sort of as voltage cushions whenever you quickly let off the throttle? I'm sure you could just program the system to be more gentle with the regen as you said in the video, but it just popped into my brain and I figured I might as well give you that food for thought. I love the truck and I love your guy's work. I'm rooting for y'all.
Design optimization mist of it is electric this is amazing footage. 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Just love the look of topsey, what a truck should look like, just needs visors and a fake hi shifter for effect..
Every fault you find is a good thing. Once the issue is solved, that's one more way the truck won't fail the customer. Keep looking for faults and you'll have a bulletproof truck. Keep testing in every situation you can think of.
Beautiful
Thank you for sharing
I really believe in what you guys are doing
Nice to see the process and the solution based progress. I don't know much about semi trucks, but I seem to recall older rigs having a sort of pull down actuator for the horn function. I surmise that was a nod to the early days of steam locomotives, however I lack the expertise to fully discern if that is the case. Perhaps a video enlightening us all to the history thereof. I for one thought it was a neat feature.
What a great attitude to testing. Find the flaws early and fix them before production. Your customers shouldn't be your testers (Elon are you listening).
It’s definitely takes longer to get to market but you’ll have a better product.
@@EdisonMotorsExactly why you guys have such a following from many fellow like minded people to the automotive to the IT fields plus engineers across the world.
I can't wait to start seeing these on the road.
This is exactly how you manage a company in today's world:
Be honest, be open, share the process.
not just "today's world" this has always been the right way to do it.
the reason many companies don't run this way is short term thinking to make shareholders happy, they want to see growth every quarter so corners get cut until there isn't anything left.
@@ARockRaider true, could've been better worded on my part. I was more referring to making use of modern media like YT to communicate as a company.
@@The-Urban-Goose oh absolutely right there as well!
Leadership always being the ones to break news as to what's happening and explaining each choice.
If this is how they mean to go on with this company they will be very successful! (Assuming the government doesn't shut them down for some made up reason)
Heat pump cooling system could be good for longevity and performance in hot climates. Good thinking. Looking forward to more updates.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, ideas and videos. Great to hear the updates on the testing. Definitely like your idea of restoring the engine alternator. Great to have redundant systems. Just because it’s installed doesn’t mean it’s your primary. Your engineers could probably confirm or deny but you might look into Super Caps instead of separate 24v or 12v Batteries. They supposedly are more durable IE less sensitive and have little to no cycle loss of life. Basically they are a big storage reserve for your charge available in large short bursts. They are very popular in the automotive extreme audio players since a relatively weak alternator can charge them up and maintain the charge as a powerful amplifier pulls from them in intermittent and extreme short pulse’s. I like the low maintenance aspect on the control power aspect and might take up some slack if you want to run in backup mode off just the alternator. Specified correctly a second beefed up set mighty be able to handle the swings in power that the axel motors kick out and while accepting the power from the primary alternator. Wishing you, your crew, and families the best.
I used to get excited about new developments in vehicle technology by reading the big publisher magazines. Now, those same magazines annoy me. Instead, when you guys post updates on your trucks, I get excited for this! You guys are doing exactly what I have said the industry as a whole needs to be doing. You guys rock and keep up the awesome work!!
I can't wait to see Topsy pull a loaded log trailer. I know it seems like slow going right now, but you're still leaps and bounds over anything else in North America. The system you've developed could be adapted to other big vehicles, it'd be great to see some branching out in the future.
Can't wait to git one for heavy equipment hauling
This project looks like so much fun!
It almost sounded like you didn't have a load resistor on the genny to keep it from spinning out.
No super caps to keep things steady?
They really help on the inrush.
You're team is doing great work and I really appreciate the honesty and openness in these videos. I wish there were more companies like you guys and the world would be a better place. Keep up the great work and I look forward to seeing your progress.
This reminds me of my time working as a machinist in a prototyping area, People seem to assume that engineer designs it, we make it, and boom there's a product, I can't tell you the number of times we got a print, made it, the company goes "Cool it's exactly what we asked for... doesn't work, we'll send it back, do this that and other to it" Send out the modified part "Doesn't work, here's a new print, make it like this" The thing is these are the companies that HAVE a ton of experience and money. Turns out reality vs theory is very different, and prototypes are often "This should work"... but it doesn't, so any new technology or system goes though many, many, many iterations before they go "Okay now make us 300 of those"
24:38 That diagram has multiple limitations and potential problems.
-No bypass on the rad,
-Probable oil logging, likely in the cab evap,
-The heat pump likely can only be used to warm the batteries, warming the cab would only be possible with an electrical actuator on the 3-way valve instead of a thermostatic valve, and even then I don't think it'll work well
-Expansion valves will need to be EEVs with multiple sensors, as single sensing (including TXVs) don't work on multiple circuits like this,
-No backup / passive cooling possible to the batteries when the compressor fails, or just isn't needed,
-a few other minor things
Thanks for the comment! We really appreciate the feedback. To respond to some of your concerns:
1. We have no bypass on the rad and no passive loop for the batteries because we don't want to use solenoid valves. It's simpler and cheaper to design without that control system. An "off the shelf" chiller simply uses a small integrated condenser, this system will be a significant improvement.
2. Oil logging is certainly a concern, we will be using industry standards to mitigate, but any suggestions are appreciated.
3. The three way mixing valve, ideally, will be an actuator. If it's too complex, it can be a simple manual valve turned by the operator to choose between hot & cold. If you reverse the heat pump, the hot side becomes cold & cold becomes hot. There will also be a backup resistive heater.
4. The thermal expansion valve system will be the most complex part of the chiller if we use parallel evaporators. If we need to use an EEV, it will be a self contained control loop in the chiller for simplicity.
Any other comments or concerns are appreciated. I'd like to utilize the expertise in our fanbase as much as possible.
I respect the fuck Out of this conversation
@@jacoblafond138 I sent a message via the edison webpage. You're probably busier than beaver patching a dam. If there's another method of contact you'd prefer, I'd love to offer some advice from the practical side of things. I'm a commercial /industrial HVAC tech from Ontario. I want nothing from y'all in return, just love the project.
In my experience with BLDC regen I had to monitor bus voltage, went from 120V to over 350V limited by PID by preventing excess regen.
On top of that, a power resistor across the DC link with a fet to burn excess power with another PID loop - youd need a few toasters for Topsy though so probably not viable (locos do it but they have a bit more space available)
Have you looked into reverse motoring for heavy braking?
When I needed even faster deceleration, we switch from regen to reverse motoring. Downside: it turns all the mechanical + electrical power as heat in the motor windings. Pro: mucho braking effort.
In this case there's a huge battery on the bus that you would expect to soak up any regen current and prevent the voltage from rising. I guess what is happening here is that the BMS is tripping and disconnecting the battery during regen, which would be understandable if they tried to regenerate into an already 100% full battery.
So how long until I can see Topsy at the Great Lakes Big Rig Truck Challenge? Would be amazing to see it drag race a diesel semi at the fully loaded drag races!
Loved this video .❤ I’m only 6 hour drive from Edison
Maybe you thought about this, about regen... A switch, like a jake-/exaust-brake/retarder, so youbcan brake "harder" if needed and less if for example empty. Sometimes you just dont need full engine brake to maintain the speed you want.
Good job and great video!
Great insight in to the development process, having worked on a number of prototypes myself; If stuff isn't breaking then you're not testing hard enough!
A thought I had when it came to cab design: Given the rough roads and risk of roll-over accidents, does the headache rack act as your Roll-Over Protection System (ROPS) or is the cab designed to perform that function?
Great update all of you. Mostly commenting for the algorithm ;)
Really cool looking and unique truck.
I reserved one of these last year, and you're still testing? I bet I could build my own electric semi at this rate!