Why the Essence-Energies Distinction is CRUCIAL to Orthodox Theology (w/ Dr. David Bradshaw)
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- Опубликовано: 2 мар 2021
- The first time I heard about the debate between Absolute Divine Simplicity and the Essence-Energies distinction, I must confess, it all seemed a bit like something that only theologians with WAY too much time on their hands debate. I figured I'd leave the philosophical theology to the scholastics and be on my merry way. However, the more I learned, the more I thought I should at least have a cursory understanding of the issue. Then I sat down with Dr. Bradshaw. In this interview, he showed just how important the Essence-Energies distinction is, and how this affects a whole host of other doctrines. In this video he demonstrates how our view of divine simplicity can effect how we view salvation, how we view the glory of God, and much more. I was blown away, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
Check out Dr. Bradshaw's work:
Aristotle East and West: amzn.to/3qsV5c9
Medieval Philosophy: amzn.to/3aZWccD
Academia: uky.academia.edu/DBradshaw
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Gospel Simplicity began as a RUclips channel in a Moody Bible Institute dorm. It was born out of the central conviction that the gospel is really good news, and I wanted to share that with as many people as possible. The channel has grown and changed over time, but that central conviction has never changed. Today, we make content around biblical and theological topics, often interacting with people from across the Christian tradition with the hope of seeking greater unity and introducing people to the beautiful simplicity and transformative power of the gospel, the good news about Jesus.
About the host:
Hey! My name is Austin, and I'm a 22 year old guy who’s passionate about the beautiful simplicity and transformative power of the gospel. I believe that the gospel, the good news about Jesus, is really good news, and I’m out to explore, unpack, and share that good news with as many people as possible. I'm a full blown Bible and Church History nerd that loves getting to dialogue with others about this, learning as much as I can, and then teaching whatever I can. I grew up around Frederick, MD where I eventually ended up working my first job at a church. They made the mistake of letting me try my hand at teaching, and instantly I fell in love. That set me on a path for further education, and I'm currently a student at Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, IL, studying theology. On any given day you can find me with my nose in a book or a guitar in my hands. Want to get to know me more? Follow me and say hi on Instagram at: @austin.suggs
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Развлечения
All the converts are saying that they’re still learning, and here I’m a cradle Orthodox trying to learn, too. Lol. The journey never ends. ☦️
Also, as someone with an English degree who’s very interested in the use of words and their meaning, the idea that the West doesn’t have an idea due to a translation issue is interesting and funny at the same time.
Well said!
Thats the best part of Orthodoxy
Icon of "The Good Shepherd" looks amazing in the background ☦️💜
Thanks!
Wow! Thank you, Austin. That was unexpectedly wonderful. Dr. Bradshaw is new to me and I was completely energized by his presentation of these ideas. Even as an Orthodox convert for 12 years, I still feel like a novice.
Glad you enjoyed it!
He makes a compelling case. Thank you both.
Glad you enjoyed it!
With all respect to Augustine for his brilliance and his devotion to God, it seems to me that his refusal to learn Greek as a schoolboy has had stunning and tragic consequences to the Western world because of the lost understanding of how God interacts with the free creatures He made and loves. I say this as a committed Christian in the Protestant tradition, now discovering Orthodoxy. My thinking about God and how He deals with me are becoming completely transformed. This has affected how I perceive and interact with my family, my neighbors…most importantly my prayer life and how I relate to The Lord Jesus Christ. For years, reformed theology and the typical Protestant mix of doctrine have contributed to an overall sense of despair and discouragement in my life. Learning the actual history of ideas-and their disappearance-is changing my understanding and how I live. I am finding that peace and confidence in God I have longed for.
Thank you for presenting yet another piece of the puzzle. It is finally beginning to fit together.
This is the third or fourth of your videos I have watched and I now subscribe. I respect your kind, encouraging and gentle method of interviewing. It is an example to follow. I pay close attention to how you ask your questions. Again, heartfelt thanks.
I think if the schism hadn't have happened, the Eastern traditions would have balanced out Augustine on some of these things over time. The Latin tradition just wasn't meant to stand all by its lonesome and have too much emphasis on one dude. Even fathers who knew Greek well could be off about some things. Instead the Roman tradition cemented it through at times excess philosophizing.
Glory to God!
Then he would have parroted previous theology and would never have made the brilliant contributions he did.
Essence/Energies and mystery are common concepts to Orthodox Christians.
Everything we do is a cooperation between us and God in the cycles of fasting, prayers, acts of charity, repentance. Far from vain actions they are opportunities to keep the remembrance of God ever present.
Do the Oriental Orthodox believe in it?
@@T_dog1 yes
@@noahjohnson2611 Are you sure? I don't think they venerate the heretic Gregory Palamas.
@@T_dog1 heretic lol, what r u
@@footsoldier1188 I'm a Roman Catholic, part of the Church founded by Jesus.
20 comments before the premiere. Bravo
Thanks!
167 now... lol
189 as the premiere rolls...impressive(!)
@OrthodoxyChloroQuine
He'll become a Dyerite soon.
@OrthodoxyChloroQuine i have seen your comments on many many orthodox videos
It warms my heart to know there are young men and women like Austin who take Theology and their relationship with God seriously. This was a fantastic discussion! It was edifying and Grace filled. Austin you are a fantastic interviewer. Don’t stop what you are doing my friend.
I've been excited for this conversation since your talk with Fr. Peter Heers. I recently led my parish [Anglican] through this topic over the course of a few weeks. It sparked such exciting reflection that I've received a number of requests to explore Orthodox theology more frequently - something that is as much of an opportunity for me to learn as the folks in our community!
That’s wonderful!
Glory to God, Tyler! Have you heard of Western Rite Orthodoxy?
@@helovesmankind I have! Funnily there is one here in the town I live in bearing the same patronage as my own parish (St. Nicholas).
@@Meikyuu1024 wonderful. I'm currently at a ROCOR Western Rite in TN. Love it.
@@helovesmankind Praise the Lord!
It speaks volumes that Bradshaw has the scriptures open for this interview.
Many philosophers would not.
When you find all your favorite Orthodox youtubers in the Gospel Simplicity comments ❤️😄
Great to see so many people here!
The comment section is full of Dyerites 😀
@JL-XrtaMayoNoCheese I like the term and I'll probably be banned again from his chat for using it.
@@AlexiusY21 No, but devout Orthodox yes.
Wonderful talk. I'm an orthodox seminarian and this talk/lecture has been very useful to come up with some useful ideas to use in my studies.
Glad to hear that!
Having lived in KY for 59+ years before moving fo FL, the fact that he teaches at UK caught my attention. That said, I have to say he did a good job of putting things on a level everyone can understand. It would have been easy for him to talk in “academia speak”, but he didn’t. Kudos for another good interview!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This interview has to be up there with the very best you have done. Enjoyed this and your interview with Fr Peter Heers immensely. Thank you. Just subbed
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for the sub!
I always enjoy your charitable interviews, and you have a good enough understanding of the issues to ask great questions. Thanks to both of you, well done!
Thank you so much! Glad you're enjoying them!
Thank you for these videos! I'm learning to finally articulate my Orthodox faith
You are so welcome!
this interview was just fantastic... I've learned a lot of things, and had to rewatch it... probably going to rewatch it somewhere in the future too, and will be sharing this!
Glad you enjoyed it!
What a wonderful discussion! And Bonnie's comment really put into words what I am learing as an Orthodox catechumen. Great clarity!
I really enjoyed this! Dr. Bradshaw was very enlightening on many issues. When he described the cooperation with the Divine Synergy, as a Roman Catholic I just kept thinking of it being cooperating with Divine Grace in the Latin tradition. I learn so much from listening to your guests, whether Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant. Thanks again for a greaat talk, Austin and Dr. Bradshaw.
Brilliant conversation ... the best yet! Thank you so much.
Thank you for asking all the questions that I myself was thinking of during the discussion. You make difficult theological concepts more accessible to non scholars 🙌
That's my goal!
This was very good. Dr Bradshaw is wonderful. God is good!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This channel is the mister rogers of theology.
Haha, I don't know whether you meant that as a compliment, but I sure am taking it as such. What a guy
@@GospelSimplicity That's like the best compliment I seen you ever Received.
Please read ch 6 of" The Greek East and the Latin West" - it goes far deeper, more personal than just dovetailing with other dogma which it certainly does, as it comes down to , "can I experientially/existentially/ontologically know God in time, before eternity," or just know "about" Him , by analogy, etc - HUGE implications for how that plays out in one's life - do we just "learn about God", intellectually grow and battle these things out, or do we purify our hearts of the passions so that our knowledge is fed mystically/internally. (See Vladimir Lossky, Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church and Dumitru Staniloae, Orthodox Spirituality.) It has HUGE epistemological ramifications: how do we even come to "know" theologically? At this point Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism radically diverge. Can't wait to hear this interview. johna
Thanks for sharing these insights!
This goes to show you have absolutely no idea the Roman teaching and understanding of Pure actuality/Divine simplicity. Furthermore, it seems that you are one who accepts the EE distinction, so how can you explain The Holy Spirit of God being “Essence itself” and being fully God, third person of the most Holy Trinity, coming and dwelling within us and making our bodies temples of his spirit? Of course, the Third person of the Most Holy Trinity is most dreadfully impacted by the EE distinction. I suggest you read the fathers of the church, East and west on pure actuality, how we can know God, and the person of the most Holy Trinity. The EE distinction is a grave heresy that distorts our view of God, and claims that the energies of God “are uncreated energies, yet not God himself”. Something to think about, God bless you.
@@aaronbenjaminjacobs3231 Even Catholics don’t think the essence of the spirt dwells in you either. Trent says that grace is a created formal cause in the soul
@@aaronbenjaminjacobs3231 Essence of God is God, Energy of God is God. You are clearly misinterpreting.
@@esoterico7750 Catholics believe in both created and uncreated grace. The uncreated grace is the Holy Spirit that dwells in us, and the created grace is an accident of the soul.
Ok Austin, so when are you going to become a catechumen!?You are already doing catechumen stuff! I was protestant for 48 years and was accepted to Moody Bible Institute back in 1989. I did not go, but I was a huge Moody fan! Becoming Orthodox is the best thing that ever happened to me. It has taken my relationship with God to a whole new level!
Friend of everybody means friend of no one. But he looks like he is more friendly with orthodoxy with every interview he makes. I'm sure he allready wants to become orthodox. Some people need more time to convert. He is a wonderfull person and He loves God. He will come home, like the rest of us did.
Thanks for sharing some of your story! I still have quite a lot of questions. Sometimes more information makes things more complicated
It took me 10 years and so it's most definitely different for everyone
I remember speaking with Archbishop Job of Chicago, of blessed memory. His "home" parish, as Bishop of Chicago, was literally right across the street from MBI, and he told tales of wonderful, friendly conversations he would have with some of the students who would visit for Divine Services.
@@GospelSimplicity reminds me of a man who is color blind. He can stare at the two colors which look the same to him trying to distinguish which one is which. Meanwhile his brother is showing him what the two colors are.
This was so good. Thank you!
Another excellent interview.
Thank you for this kind of interviews, Austin!
My pleasure!
David Bradshaw is a genuinely nice person and profound scholar. I remember meeting him while completing my Ba. of Theology in Sydney Australia. He joined in with the students during a Vespers service that we held daily.
That's wonderful to hear!
Hey Austin, loved the video. Just putting out my suggestion for whenever you might get around to your next Orthodox interview - I would absolutely LOVE to see Fr. Dcn. Ananias (also known as "TheNorwegianNous" on RUclips) talk on your channel. He's an excellent philosophical mind and a great ambassador for Orthodoxy. Cheers!
Oh boy, can't wait!
Hope you enjoy it!
This is going to be epic!
I hope you enjoy it!
Looking forward to this. Thanks GS
My pleasure!
Awesome video!
Thanks!
I've actually found myself recently describing God as "beyond" our comprehension in many ways. It's interesting I came across this - what I was describing was really God's essence that is ineffable.
Glad you came across it!
I never knew that! That was very very helpful and interesting. Thanks.
I just watched this on Patreon and it is fascinating!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I love that you put your head down and walk right into the middle of some of the most polemical topics in Christianity, such as Quietism in Eastern Orthodoxy, and do so with respect and fairness to your guests. I appreciate that you listen to those who advocate for their position and let them characterize their own arguments.
Thanks!
So many leaders could learn from Austin’s example.
Austin, great, really great interview and good questions. You know, Jay Dyer mentioned you in one of his streams, after your interview with Father Peter Heers, he recommended your interview and i m absolutely positive he will make an interview with you any time. He has done many interviews with protestants who are in search, like your self and he was very kind with them, so maybe you should check him out also. Your subscribers are his subscribers in most part, as orthodox or those who are in search for truth about who we are and why are we here, who God is, what is the ultimate purpose for existing and that kind of questions. Please consider that and have him on your stream. Thanks again!
Thoroughly enjoyed this. Yes, a lot to think about.
Can't wait. ❤
Hope you enjoy it!
I loved this! So good to learn from such a knowledgeable, cordial, and competent man! I will say this though, not so much as a criticism but more as a clarification: the Greek word συνεργός (sunergos, fellow worker) appears 13 times in the NT and every time it refers to being a fellow worker either with the apostles or with God in the PREACHING of the gospel, never in our justification or regeneration.
Interesting!
Being an Orthodox, I still have an understanding for the failures of various fathers in the West. Even today, when technology has given us fast and efficient communication from one side of the world to the other, we have communication errors. Imagine the Middle Ages, illiteracy, bad correspondence from Greek and Hebrew to Latin, it is easy to make mistakes even now, especially in those days. One mistake in translating the works of the Holy Fathers leads you to heresy.
The East had some pretty crazy heresies in the early days and Rome was rock solid. That's why all the councils were held in the east because that's where things were going down. Your point on language is good but I do question whether the early Latin were any more prone to error than the early Greeks
@@amg2598 many popes were condemned for heresies in ecumenical councils, no see is without stain
@@amg2598 lol. "rock" solid.
Thank you for this!
My pleasure!
Austin, I love your videos! You have such a gift at interviewing people. Thank you. From a fellow Protestant converting to Catholicism.
Glad you’re enjoying them!
Blessings. A brief exegesis of Isaiah 42:1-43:12 for you, which I believe speaks to the divine episcopal structure of the Catholic Apostolic Church, as opposed to the subservience to a supreme pontiff as in Catholicism or the variations of the branch theory/invisible church found in Anglicanism and Protestantism. I have shortened the text in places to clarify what I perceive to be the significant meaning and exchanged the words "Ruler", "Petra", and "Child", for: "Bishop", "Peter", and "Son", according to the mind of Jesus Christ, and as these would have likely been understood by our Fathers in the Faith. Please read the scripture for yourself, and see for yourself whether this is or is not appropriate exegesis.
--- First we know that Jacob is a foreshadowing of Jesus being the unique covenantal son of God and the Patriarch from whom the twelve are "sent" from as the foundation of Israel (Rev. 21). So when we read Jacob, the "son", here we can understand it to be pertaining to our Great Master and God Jesus. Moving on from this, we find a foreshadowing of the Petrine identity of the new covenant: "Extol his name from the end of the earth.. you islands and those who dwell in them.. Those who inhabit Petra will be cheerful, from the mountain tops they will shout, they will announce his praises among the islands.." So this is teaching us that the gospel, the proclamation, will only rightly go out in all the corners of the earth from within the rulership of "a rock" which is the bishopric (which was given for the apostles through Peter from Christ). After this, we read that Jacob (Jesus) has become honoured and glorified, this is spiritually teaching us of the Lord's glorification and ascension to the Father, and how those who rest in the Lord (Israel) are too deified in his likeness which is theosis. The real kicker to me is what comes next, it says that because of God's love for his son, he has given his son rulers (Bishops), which is plural, for his head, which is singular, (recall Ignatius's emphasis on the bishop being Jesus Christ) who are gathered together from among ALL the nations that have been gathered together. So that there is no one supreme pontiff, in the church that Jesus himself has founded, to whom the other bishops are subservient to, but rather all of the bishops rule Christ's church on earth as fellow-servants equal in authority. And THIS church, and the apostolic episcopal structure of THIS church is his true and faithful witness. God love, bless, and keep you. Amen.
----------------------
Here is the scripture, Isaiah 42:1-43:12:
“Jacob is my Son, I will help him; Israel is my chosen one my soul has accepted him. I have given my spirit upon him; and he will bring forth judgment upon the nations...He will blaze forth and will not be shattered until he brings justice upon the earth, and the nations will hope in his name...I, the Lord God, have called you in righteousness, and I will hold fast onto your hand and strengthen you and I will give you for a covenant of the nation to open the eyes of the blind, to lead those who are bound out from their chains, and those seated in darkness out of prison. Look! The things which were from the beginning have come, and I have made new things known to you, which I reveal even before they are announced.
Sing a new song to the Lord. It is his reign; extol his name from the end of the earth, you who go down to the sea and sail it, you islands and you who dwell in them...Those who inhabit Peter (Petra: a rock) will be cheerful, from the topmost point of the mountains they will shout; they will give glory to God; they will announce his praises among the islands...
And now this is what the Lord God who made you, Jacob, and who formed you, Israel, says: ... “Since you have become honoured before me, you have been glorified, and I have loved you, and I will give people for you, and bishops (rulers/overseers) for your head. Do not be frightened for I am with you; I will lead your seed from the east, and I will gather you from the west... All the nations have been gathered together, and bishops will be gathered from among them. Who will announce these things? Or who will announce the things to you from the beginning? Let them bring their witnesses and let them be vindicated and let them hear and speak truthfully. “Be witnesses to me, and I am a witness,” says the Lord God, “and the Son (the child), whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and believe and understand that I am; before me there is no other God, and there will be no one with me... I am God, and there is no other beside me who saves... You are my witnesses.
Furthermore beloved, the Pope has been seen in Catholic apologetics and understanding as a visible high priest figure and an Earthly head of God's people.... But look, the church of God has one high priest who is already flesh and blood and ministers in the Heavenly Jerusalem and in the Holy Temple. There is no need for another high priest figure or head of God's people besides Jesus Christ. And now, does the Pope have equals in jurisdiction and brotherhood? No, but the High priest was an equal in brotherhood among his chief priests. Jesus Christ is the High Priest, and the bishops are his chief priests and representatives of his head on this earth, who are equals among each other and in one brotherhood with Jesus Christ the Lord. But Catholicism is unable to have this image because it is a house built on sand and a lower order than the heavenly order of God's church.
Fantastic Interview
Lookin forward to this one.
Hope you enjoy it!
o k
I love how you can like and dislike videos before they even air... Having said that, this should be good...
It is an interesting thing
This is a really good subject. I would like to hear a discussion about essence/energies between an Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant scholar.
That would be interesting!
That was brilliant!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for having this conversation. I learned a lot. The way I’ve tried to make sense of this is to ponder the phrase, ‘The Life of God’. It’s a description of what we are taken up into as we participate with/in God in each moment. For me, God must be really present in each moment, and God is truly alive. Every moment is the gift of God’s very life. I often wonder if we’re better off using ‘life of God’ language in place of ‘Kingdom of God’ language.
My pleasure!
Very well stated. Explains the divergence of thinking between east & west & its implications for correct interpretation of scripture.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very insightful video.
good job amigo. nice convo/topic.
Thanks!
God is
- enabling you
- working through you
- strengthening you
I just noticed the “The Good Shepherd” icon behind you, God bless!
Good eye!
Another excellent interview. Really appreciate Dr. Bradshaw's knowledge and his manner.
I believe the concept of essence-energies is not foreign to most Protestants although we don't use the term. We distinguish between God's revelation or manifestations of Himself and His actual essence or full glory. We also understand the concept of God "energizing" or empowering us through the indwelling Holy Spirit. Indeed the only way to please God is through Spirit-empowered behavior (Romans 8:1-17)
You're in for a treat
Hope everyone enjoys it!
Protestant from TX here. I'm absolutely loving your ecumenism and the deep appreciation of ecclesial diversity you bring to every interview. It would be so cool to see more, like convos with Ethiopian or Syriac Orthodox Christians, particularly surrounding the role of language in the development of theology as mentioned here.
Great explanatory power
Excellent explanation
This was excellent. Glory to God.
O yes, a real hard hitter! Thank you Austin
Hope you enjoy it!
Also, would you ever considered publishing in podcast form as well to offer more listening versatility? Thanks for all that you do! God bless you!
I have a podcast!
Fantastic! Found
Great subject! Tnx much!
Energies- how God reveals Himself to mankind. Essence-unknowable by creation.
My pleasure!
Where could I find a list of all the references to the Greek word for energy in the New Testament? I greatly enjoyed this discussion and appreciate you highlighting the topic. I will be looking into Dr. David Bradshaw's work further.
It is strong's concordance #1753. You could use Bible Hub, Study Light, or several other free online tools to check it out!
Eνεργεια ενεργηματα ενεργούντος ενεργων etc some verses col 1:29 phil 3:21 ephes.1:19ephes.3:7 3:20.1 cor.12:6.phil.2:13 col.2:12 etc
“Start reading the Greek Fathers.” Wish I’d taken his counsel 5 yrs ago. 😜
Hindsight is 20/20 as they say
Never 2 late
Bradshaw's book 'Aristotle East and West' is one of the best books out there for people who are looking to shift into the Orthodox worldview and leave the impoverished western worldview.
I need to read it
@@GospelSimplicity Perhaps an interesting reflection on the professor's book: theoaesthetics.ru/david-bentley-hart-the-theologian-is-a-quiet-rioter.html
In any case, whatever the merits/demerits of Bradshaw's position, it is a modern philosophical position. The one takeaway I had when I read his book some time ago (at which point I was certainly programmed to be predisposed to his argument) is that it is wildly anachronistic from a historical perspective. Of course that doesn't make it wrong, but it's certainly not "what Orthodoxy teaches" in some broad sense; that said, there's a reason that RC theologians/philosophers don't take it seriously.
Excellent!
Just wonderful.
Dr. Bradshaw does great work. Aristotle East and West. Thanks for the upload GS.
Hi , can you make a presentation of the "production" and the activity of the trinity according to the orthodox and the catholic doctrin , comparatively?
0:00 Thanks for Supporting The Channel
1:00 Thanks to the Sponsor of this video interview.
1:47 Description of Dr David Bradshaw’s Resume.
2:24 Dr David is asked to tell us a little about his personal academic background.
4:06 Connecting with Students.
4:36 Dr David Bradshaw was Protestant/Non-Denominational/Evangelical then converted to Orthodoxy when he attended college 🏫🎓
5:43 What is Essence-Energies?
• Energy -> Energia, St Paul uses the term.
6:58 Apostolic Fathers
7:51 Energia -> Latin ⚠️
• It loses the meaning St Paul had meant by using the term Energia.
8:55 Synergy 9:47
10:20 Essence aka Ousia
10:54
Essence = How God Knows Himself To Be
Energy = God As He Is Manifest Among Creatures
11:57 Language
12:21 Essence feels normal
12:47 Synergy
13:57 Coworking With God
• He Gives
• You Work
• Yours Becomes His
14:56 2 Men Working Together To Build A House 🏠
16:44 What we do is made effective by God.
17:41 Now he’s really open to receive The Grace of God, enabling him to be The Person God intended him to be.
19:23
East: Essence Energies [EED]
West: Absolute Divine Simplicity [ADS]
22:33 God Is …. Perfections
24:29 Naming God is actually Naming Energies of God.
24:53 Augustine, because he lacked the term (Energia?) Augustine thought we were naming God’s essence, so Augustine made a mistaken view.
27:04 Augustine’s understanding of Predestination. Augustine lacked/lost the idea of Synergy.
29:15 Bad Premise can multiply into Many Mistakes.
30:37 “Have To, Or Else.”
31:31 Augustine [Fall of Western Rome] preceded John Calvin [Protestant Reformation], when it comes to predestination.
33:00 The Sun ☀️ impact
34:33 Augustine comes with his own philosophical system, meanwhile John Chrysostom followed the text, reading the original Greek language of the text.
35:40 God works in you to help you to respond to The Good. “Work Out Your Own Salvation With Fear and Trembling.”
• God Gives
• Man Responds
• Harden like Sun Cooked Mud Brick 🧱
• Soften and melt like wax candle 🕯️
37:53 Can someone accept Essence Energies while saying God is simple in a sense? Yes ✅
• The Burning 🔥 Bush
47:23 The Divine Glory ☦️
+ The Transfiguration of Christ. Radiance. Visible Emblem of Eternal Divine Being.
49:20 Opening The Eyes To See The Uncreated Light Which Was Always There. ☦️
Very detailed - thanks!
The way I see the western world embracing the 'energies' of God is through the Charismatic movement. It's a way of being open to God's action and glory broadly within that philosophicial system
Very good interview. I just wished that you would have asked him two additional questions: first concerning the issue of translations, whether the reformers in the 16th century, who started to read and translate the original Greek, caught any of the nuances of the energia terms and whether it had any influence on them in their theology. The second question I would have loved to see would pertain to the issue of theosis, or deification. He indirectly talked about it when he mentioned the divine glory at the end. since the west doesn’t know about the divine energies, how can there be any true deification in the west? ‘Partaking of the nature’ as it is said in peters? The Catholics certainly believe in saints, but what does that mean in the larger scheme of things? How does the path to sainthood in the west differ from the one in the East?
I can say that the Lutheran reformers used the Early Church Fathers' terms and distinctions to combat the denial of Christ's glorified Body and Blood in the Eucharist; (Martin Chemnitz, two natures in Christ; also the article on the same topic in the formula of Concord which is available online). Still I'm pretty sure there is a difference in it's working out
Great talk
Thanks!
Nice!!
Thanks!
Ironically, I studied Classics in college and I had a secular humanist Prof. Loved him dearly. One day in Greek class, the greek words for same and similar homoousis and ousis struck me and the trinity made sense to me anyway. the power and the spirt, well, I think they are interchangeable in Paul in many reagards. It's been 21 years ago, so forgive me, its off the top of my head. I just remember the Greek teacher looking at me, he liked me and we spent office hours together but he thought I was hopeless as a writer or thinker, hearing my idea and stood back from the board and said, my goodness, 'good catch'. Greek is a never ending study from plato to paul.
Wonderful
Thanks!
First l want to say again that you are truly a very humble and outstanding interviewer. It would be great if you can reach out to Father Stephen Freeman who translates the essence, energies distinction in much the same manner as Dr Bradshaw. The former really makes it clear on how Palamas showed how we can really know and feel God I'm a more personal way and o
Thanks for the interview Austin! From my study of the western Catholic mystical tradition, I have reached all of these same conclusions presented here while using the model of divine simplicity. I do not see how divine simplicity prevents one from accessing these concepts, since I have done so personally on my own accord without prompting from Eastern Theology and using purely Catholic sources. My readings have included the works of St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila. I suppose my point is to disagree that divine simplicity goes against these mystical concepts of God.
Frankly, it’s terrifying that very well-read and intelligent people all over the place can’t seem to come to this conclusion
Roman Catholics believe in created grace, that makes a difference.
Thank you... a very good video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I'm calling it that the whole topic about "Essence-energies distinction VS Absolute divine simplicity" is Jay Dyer's forté, regardless of his manners. He has explained how the essence-energies distinction is absolutely crucial against Islamic arguments (he himself has debated the Shabir Ally) and ultimately in helping them to understand the correct doctrine of the Trinity. You might want to listen to it directly from him explaining here: ruclips.net/video/QUWAuMvoe6c/видео.html
Jay Dyer is excellent. This is a very good, albeit brief overview. For someone totally unfamiliar with the subject, this is good milk to have - with the hope to then grow and partake in more solid food
And he has converted zero Muslims with this argument. It may be crucial for winning you tube arguments but it doesn't exactly convert the heart of a Muslim so excuse me if I think his claim is a bit of puffing himself up as Jay is want to do.
@@lilwaynesworld0 can you prove that? In his debate with shabir ally, ally literally wasnt able to answer and didnt know how to go forward with the debate. Go listen/watch it.
The only people who don't like Jay Dyer are people who lean more politically correct and try to judge his speech over the actual content
@@lilwaynesworld0 i know several who have so you'd be wrong
I have been hearing about this topic for years but never really knew where to to to get a good, and yet understandable and not so seriously academic, overview of Essence and Energies. Any recommendations? I am particularly interested in statement that Dr. Bradshaw made about this topic really having an impact on our relationship with God around 28 minutes in: a wrong idea or picture of God that seems to have been the norm in the West.
It seems this young man has developed quite an interest in Eastern Orthodoxy. It’s an example of a pattern I’ve observed over the years. It seems that when someone makes a decision to really study church history, they often end up developing a real interest in Eastern Orthodoxy. It’s not uncommon for them to end up converting. Glory to God!
Help me understand where Bradshaw's book on "Medieval Philosophy" is? The book you linked in the description routes me to a book by Bruce Foltz.
He contributed to that book
@@GospelSimplicity Ohhhhhhhhh. Okay. I must have missed that in your opening introduction.
Thanks!
Enjoyed, need more understanding to fully follow the conversation.
Unfortunately l accidentally hit the response button in the middle of my explanation. Nevertheless as an Orthodox l just want to say that it must be frustrating to constantly hear " when are you converting to Orthodoxy".Though l hope you do so it doesn't change the fact that you are such a decent, humble, extremely open minded individual who has such a comforting unpretentious demeanor; It obviously shows in how well you give an interview. If ever you can invite Father Stephen Freeman, l would love to hear both of you discuss the Essence, Energies Distinction as well.
Mind blown!
Glad to hear it!
He has a very clear and lucid mind. The Thomistic friars on your show had a hard time elucidating their thoughts. For him it was easy.
CRUCIAL and timely! Thanks. So few of us, Orthodox, not least, know precious little re the Essence-Energies synergy distinction.
Hopefully this was helpful!
@@GospelSimplicity : thanks for showcasing the Faith in all her diversity.
Thank you for doing this interview, cant wait! Its a big and complex topic in some ways, but the practical and everyday implications of the Thomistic or Orthodox view is beyond words
"...by taking away the divine energy and by fusing it with the essence by saying that the activity does not differ from that essence, they have made God an essence without activity. And not only that, but they have also completely annihilated Gods being itself and they have become atheists....For we know that God is only from His proper activities."
-St Gregory Palamas
My pleasure!
Excellent interview.
For those who wants to know more about the essence-energies teaching I recommend a podcast from the Ancient Faith Ministries called "Clark Carlton on the Essence and Energies of God."
Thanks!
@@GospelSimplicity, you are welcome!
Glory to God
Dr Bradshaw talks about how Augustine discussed what was seen at the transfiguration or in the tongues of fire at Pentecost, and he thought the things seen were created things. (because you can't see the uncreated God with human eyes). If I understood correctly, the orthodox hold that what was seen was the divine energies. But isn't this a case of Augustine asking how, and the orthodox asking what? Or if you have a sudden perception of God's glory while looking at a rose or at a sunset, does this mean that you are really no longer seeing the rose or the sunset (the created thing).
Augustine, too, was speaking of what (and not of how). Your analogy with created things (a rose, a sunset) cannot hold for obvious reasons: the uncreated light remains uncreated light, etc. In Christ, the uncreated and the created become one. In your vision of God, the rose is the created vehicle by which, thanks to grace (God's action in your life, God's gracious willingness to reveal His glory to you) you found access to God.
Another good presentation, Austin. I was somewhat confused as to Dr. Bradley's position. Was he expounding teachings of the Orthodox Church or his observations?
As to the energy/synergy he spoke of in St. Paul's teaching the first thing that popped into my head was grace both sanctifying and actual. Sanctifying is the grace we experience in friendship with God, i.e. we haven't breached that friendship with mortal sin. Actual grace is what one may call industrial strength through the sacraments -7 in Catholicism. Confession heals us by putting us back in friendship with God.
Faith and reason incorporate of course our ability to understand God through philosophy, especially Aristotelian and faith our understanding of God through his revelation to us through the Jewish prophets and of course His ultimate revelation through Jesus, true God and true man.
As to Augustine the Catholic Church edited his position on predestination which it never accepted. Origin's position on universal salvation was rejected as was Tertullian's acceptance of Marcionism.
Yes, God has no moving parts otherwise He would not be God. His omniscience does not preclude our free will otherwise we would be of the beasts and not made in the image and likeness of God, that is w an intellect of course with all the attendant limitations.
Thanks again for your work. I'll give you a mystery and that is how you do all this work on interviews and your studies. I submit it has to be your youth. God bless you.
Can't make the edit as I can't roll the text. Correction: should read Montanism not Marcionism. Life of a Luddite. Sorry.
@Ioannis Grivas Thank you. Since I am basically operating out of the theology of my Baltimore Catechism of my youth of 65+ years ago I can get way over my pay grade in these presentations. So I think it's an emanated energy not a created one if I understood. Thank you so much. I have no idea of Orthodox teaching other than the schism of 1064 and the ongoing dispute over the Papacy. As Pope John Paul II said the east and west are the two lungs of the church. Again, thank you for helping me in such clear terms.
As always, fantastic interview and questions Austin! Throughout the interview, I felt like Austin was taking the questions right out of my mouth.
As a Catholic I’m still struggling to see the distinction between Orthodox and Catholic theology on this point. As Dr. Bradshaw kind of concedes at 38:55 , all Christians who hold an orthodox faith (lower case o) believe in simplicity. It’s just a matter of verbalizing the philosophy of the three Persons in relation to the one God that we disagree-but it seems the theology is the same. And if we are just disagreeing about terminology, then I think this a non-issue. As Dr. Bradshaw points out, Orthodox Christians believe that some of God is “beyond knowing,” and our verbalization of the relation of the Trinity could fall into that category.
Glad you enjoyed it!
The Council of Trent dogmatized Thomistic Absolute Divine Simplicity. This is incompatible with the Essence-Energies Distinction.
@@cjgumbert wrong never made dogma, The Roman Catholic Church distinguishes between doctrine, which is single and must be accepted by Roman Catholics, and theological elaborations of doctrine, about which Catholics may legitimately disagree. With respect to the Eastern and Western theological traditions, the Catholic Church recognizes that, at times, one tradition may "come nearer to a full appreciation of some aspects of a mystery of revelation than the other, or [express] it to better advantage." In these situations, the Church views the various theological expressions "often as mutually complementary rather than conflicting."[33]
According to Meyendorff, from Palamas's time until the twentieth century, Roman Catholic theologians[who?] generally rejected the idea that there is in God a real essence-energies distinction. In their view, a real distinction between the essence and the energies of God contradicted the teaching of the First Council of Nicaea[34] on divine unity.[12] Catholic theologian Ludwig Ott held that an absence of real distinction between the attributes of God and God's essence is a dogma of the Catholic Church.[35][36]
In contrast, Jürgen Kuhlmann argues that the Roman Catholic Church never judged Palamism to be heretical, adding that Palamas did not consider that the distinction between essence and energies in God made God composite.[30] According to Kuhlmann, "the denial of a real distinction between essence and energies is not an article of Catholic faith".[37]
According to Meyendorff, the later twentieth century saw a change in the attitude of Roman Catholic theologians to Palamas, a "rehabilitation" of him that has led to increasing parts of the Western Church considering him a saint, even if uncanonized.[34] Some Western scholars maintain that there is no conflict between the teaching of Palamas and Roman Catholic thought on the distinction.[30] According to G. Philips, the essence-energies distinction of Palamas is "a typical example of a perfectly admissible theological pluralism" that is compatible with the Roman Catholic magisterium.[30] Jeffrey D. Finch claims that "the future of East-West rapprochement appears to be overcoming the modern polemics of neo-scholasticism and neo-Palamism".[30] Some Western theologians have incorporated the essence-energies distinction into their own thinking.
Pretty much no difference at all today.
@@Motomack1042 what you said about the Catholic belief as a methodology they use for the dogma is seen as heresy in the orthodox church .in catholism there can be scholls of Philosophical methodologies on theology that one that does not agree to the other. That at first of all is seen as a heresy in orthodox church theology. In orthodox church there is one belief on dogma not different schools of thoughts
@@Motomack1042 there is no such thing in orthodox church theology such as old or new palamism. In the orthodox church the says of Gregory Palamas about the Reall idivisible distinction between essence energies is the orthodox church theology nothing different.
Hi. Very nice interwew.
I recomend that you do an interwew on the same topic with Jay Dyer. He can express much more understandable for wider audience.
God bless ☦️☦️☦️
I interviewed Jay on Theosis and we touched on some of these things. You might find that helpful
Thank you, Austin for all the good content you present to us always. It's no exaggeration, I think, to say you're the 21st century apostle .
@C I haven't understood what you mean exactly
Is there a talk coming out with Jay Dyer ?
Yep!
@@GospelSimplicity Oh boy, really? Can't wait! Bless be God for all the content you provide us (synergy 😉).
@@GospelSimplicity ooh nooo